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qf2048
Posts: 228
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:16 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:06 pm

qf2220 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
The QF mega terminal requires more general agreement as it would require VA to move across to T1 and they are not keen to be located further from the CBD than their competitors but I guess they could be tempted particularly as T2 is now such a zoo.


Im going to go out on the crazy limb here and ask why not build an entirely new terminal where Blue Emu etc are now? Current T2/3 serves either all of QF or could do all of VA + Rex and others, the new T4 serves the one that doesnt move from T2/3. The only issue would be the train connection, but if theyre going to spend up big on a new terminal then they might as well add some sort of skytrain between T2/3 and T4.


Maybe QF and all it's partners should use T1 and everyone else can have T2? Think Skyteam airlines could stay at T1 also.QF seem to handle some of them.
The train between the two terminals should be free too. It use to be around $4 but it has increased the last time I did it.
 
smi0006
Posts: 3199
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:23 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
sierrakilo44 wrote:

Inflation has gone up 17% in the last 4 years, the company’s offer over the same time was only a 6% increase. So an 11% effective pay cut, for an increase of almost 30% to work hours. In a time when a half year profit of $1.45 billion is expected.


Agreed. While 2-3% is still what most employers are offering in EBAs, it is becoming increasingly untenable. Being back to massive profits would do nothing but encourage the union to push harder, especially when they gave up pay rises when the airline was loss making.

sierrakilo44 wrote:
One would think that would be illegal.


It isn’t. The pilots have already folded on the same thing, making concessions to fly the A350s, on top of already making concessions to fly the 787s. Qantas threatened to place those aircraft with Network or NationalJet (or whoever) and they rolled over. The flight attendants also made concessions when the A380 was introduced, with the QAAC cabin crew on different pay and conditions to existing cabin crew. Qantas know they can probably win this one as well.

Qantas isn’t alone here. So many employers across so many industries, from professional services, to mining, to health care, to the public sector, have reduced the number of permanent full-time employees for contractors, casual contracts, and ‘consultants’. This is basically the same thing in the airline industry, rightly or wrongly.


I agree and I think there is increasingly discussion in the media around mega profits driving growing inequality and a push to avoid US style inequality levels. I could be a hippy but we do need to see a stronger sense of social responsibility coupled with shareholder returns.

Previously I would say the public had little sympathy for cabin crew due to perceptions over their roles - anecdotal, but I feel this is now shifting. People see the manner QF leadership behaves towards their collective groups, don’t appreciate mega bonus, they saw how hard airline employees did it during covid, I suspect sympathy is with crew this time round. Especially if they handle the PR of the strikes delicately and don’t disrupt Xmas holidays.
 
JJWess
Posts: 118
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:30 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:41 pm

theonewhoflys wrote:
What are the chances of VA actually using their HND slot by the expiry date in late March 2023? It’s only 4 months away and there seems to be no activity or preparation for it.

It'd be interesting to see... many people have floated the idea of operating CNS-HND using the MAX-8's once they come into service, but who really knows.
I think VA is stepping cautiously when it comes to expanding internationally. LAX seemed to be the only LH destination that worked for them, but everything else was loss-making.

Stranger things have happened... so time will tell
 
sierrakilo44
Posts: 1063
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Fri Nov 25, 2022 2:10 am

smi0006 wrote:
Previously I would say the public had little sympathy for cabin crew due to perceptions over their roles - anecdotal, but I feel this is now shifting. People see the manner QF leadership behaves towards their collective groups, don’t appreciate mega bonus, they saw how hard airline employees did it during covid, I suspect sympathy is with crew this time round. Especially if they handle the PR of the strikes delicately and don’t disrupt Xmas holidays.


The last time QF faced industrial action from employee groups was 2011, that preceded the infamous airline grounding. That year the FY profit was $500m reducing to pretty much break even the next year, and the share price low $2 range.

Today they are expecting a $1.45b half year profit (FY must be at least $2.5b) and share price over $6. Totally different circumstances.
 
melpax
Posts: 2359
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:13 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:39 am

JJWess wrote:
theonewhoflys wrote:
What are the chances of VA actually using their HND slot by the expiry date in late March 2023? It’s only 4 months away and there seems to be no activity or preparation for it.

It'd be interesting to see... many people have floated the idea of operating CNS-HND using the MAX-8's once they come into service, but who really knows.
I think VA is stepping cautiously when it comes to expanding internationally. LAX seemed to be the only LH destination that worked for them, but everything else was loss-making.

Stranger things have happened... so time will tell


VA's previous ops to HND never really got a chance given COVID happened shortly after the flights started. If they're looking to target leisure travellers instead of corporates, Japan may be a better bet as the US is now becoming an expensive destination for Australians.

If they did decide on CNS-HND ops, it wouldn't be much of a difference from JQ's current Japan ops, plenty of people fly JQ to Japan via CNS or OOL.
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:01 am

Plus any hypothetical CNS-HND ops on VA would qualify for funding from the Attracting Aviation Investment Fund (as it meets the 'Tourism' criteria) from the State of Queensland, with QAL (owner-operators of Cairns Airport) also tipping in the funds for partial subsidies.

Those subsidies would help VA/Bain greatly with the initial ongoing operating costs if VA decides on CNS-HND on the 737Max-8.
 
Deano969
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:12 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Fri Nov 25, 2022 5:39 am

tullamarine wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
The QF mega terminal requires more general agreement as it would require VA to move across to T1 and they are not keen to be located further from the CBD than their competitors but I guess they could be tempted particularly as T2 is now such a zoo.


Im going to go out on the crazy limb here and ask why not build an entirely new terminal where Blue Emu etc are now? Current T2/3 serves either all of QF or could do all of VA + Rex and others, the new T4 serves the one that doesnt move from T2/3. The only issue would be the train connection, but if theyre going to spend up big on a new terminal then they might as well add some sort of skytrain between T2/3 and T4.

HIghly unlikely VA would ever accept being shunted off to a terminal without a direct rail connection to CBD. VA would probably counter that a new terminal could be created as you suggest as a LCC terminal which would ship JQ, Bonza etc out of T2 and VA would claim the entire existing T2 for itself.



Agreed
 
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RyanairGuru
Posts: 9470
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:37 am

melpax wrote:
JJWess wrote:
theonewhoflys wrote:
What are the chances of VA actually using their HND slot by the expiry date in late March 2023? It’s only 4 months away and there seems to be no activity or preparation for it.

It'd be interesting to see... many people have floated the idea of operating CNS-HND using the MAX-8's once they come into service, but who really knows.
I think VA is stepping cautiously when it comes to expanding internationally. LAX seemed to be the only LH destination that worked for them, but everything else was loss-making.

Stranger things have happened... so time will tell


VA's previous ops to HND never really got a chance given COVID happened shortly after the flights started. If they're looking to target leisure travellers instead of corporates, Japan may be a better bet as the US is now becoming an expensive destination for Australians.

If they did decide on CNS-HND ops, it wouldn't be much of a difference from JQ's current Japan ops, plenty of people fly JQ to Japan via CNS or OOL.


Maybe I’m misremembering, but I thought VA BNE-HND never even launched?

I honestly can’t see CNS-HND happening on VA, it just doesn’t make sense financially. It would tie up an aircraft for the best part of an entire day (the best you could do would be BNE-CNS/CNS-HND and back within 24 hours) in which time the aircraft could operate 6-8 domestic flights. You’re targeting a decidedly leisure market, either Japan inbound tourism or people from BNE/SYD/MEL looking for a cheap flight. The latter in particular is highly price driven, you will struggle to attract a meaningful yield premium over Jetstar. Forget attracting any corporate traffic with a stop in Cairns, they’ll be flying ANA if they’re tied to Velocity. The onboard product in economy is only half a step above Jetstar, which is fine for most people SYD-MEL, but a different story long haul. Business Class on VA 737 and JQ 787 are very similar, both seats and service, so you can’t really charge a premium there either. Talking of Jetstar, they have 300+ pax 787s, which would be almost unbeatable on CASM, plus lower labour costs etc. They can easily afford to undercut VA.

In short, I don’t see why they would tie up an aircraft that could be very profitably deployed on the lucrativd domestic network, to engage in a fare war for price conscious passengers, with minimal strategic value in attracting corporate and high yield passengers to your broader network. Beyond keeping a HND slot of Qantas, what is the point?
 
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RyanairGuru
Posts: 9470
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:44 am

Deano969 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
qf2220 wrote:

Im going to go out on the crazy limb here and ask why not build an entirely new terminal where Blue Emu etc are now? Current T2/3 serves either all of QF or could do all of VA + Rex and others, the new T4 serves the one that doesnt move from T2/3. The only issue would be the train connection, but if theyre going to spend up big on a new terminal then they might as well add some sort of skytrain between T2/3 and T4.

HIghly unlikely VA would ever accept being shunted off to a terminal without a direct rail connection to CBD. VA would probably counter that a new terminal could be created as you suggest as a LCC terminal which would ship JQ, Bonza etc out of T2 and VA would claim the entire existing T2 for itself.



Agreed


While I agree VA wouldn’t want to go to an LCC terminal on the site of the Blue Emu, they also don’t need the whole of T2. They don’t even use the whole of their concourse (31-45) anymore, with both Rex and Jetstar semi-regularly using some of those gates (not sure exactly which ones are VA exclusive and which one aren’t?).

What I’m wondering is whether a compromise would be possible for both QF and VA international to relocate to T2, with partners having to stay in T1. Not ideal from Qantas’ perspective but an easier sell. I’m inclined to say no, as once you start factoring in widebodies the number of bays will go down, which is why Qantas would probably need the whole of T2 to achieve what they want.
 
Aviator34ID
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:34 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Fri Nov 25, 2022 12:46 pm

"Especially if they handle the PR of the strikes delicately and don’t disrupt Xmas holidays."

Of course they will disrupt school holidays. Isn't that the whole point?
 
smi0006
Posts: 3199
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Fri Nov 25, 2022 12:50 pm

Aviator34ID wrote:
"Especially if they handle the PR of the strikes delicately and don’t disrupt Xmas holidays."

Of course they will disrupt school holidays. Isn't that the whole point?


Not really - the point is to disrupt QF, whilst keeping the public onside. Ruining everyone’s Christmas will just upset the public. Disruptions in Feb would be far less damaging, they will probs threaten Dec/Jan then post school holidays go on strike.
 
OffTheRails
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:49 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:14 am

Australian aviation are reporting REX 737 operations has been profitable through both September and October. Whilst only a slight profit in September, October saw a 2 million dollar profit generated. Interestingly their SAAB operations have been "loss making" and don't intend to return to profitability until Q3 2023.

https://australianaviation.com.au/2022/ ... september/

Well done to their 737 operations although I do suspect the fruits they are enjoying is the strong demand for domestic travel within Australia at the moment.
 
sierrakilo44
Posts: 1063
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:38 am

OffTheRails wrote:
Australian aviation are reporting REX 737 operations has been profitable through both September and October. Whilst only a slight profit in September, October saw a 2 million dollar profit generated. Interestingly their SAAB operations have been "loss making" and don't intend to return to profitability until Q3 2023.

https://australianaviation.com.au/2022/ ... september/

Well done to their 737 operations although I do suspect the fruits they are enjoying is the strong demand for domestic travel within Australia at the moment.


If anything the feeling here is they’re cooking their books, loading expenses into the SAAB operation, to make the jet operation more profitable. Their SAAB operation runs off subsidised routes and a lot of monopolies so stunning that would be loss making, whereas the jet operation which has only achieved decent load factors in the last few months with almost zero premium traffic is profit making.

The investors seem to agree, as the share price hasn’t budged a bit. They see no value in investing in this supposedly “profitable” jet operation.
Last edited by sierrakilo44 on Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
sierrakilo44
Posts: 1063
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:42 am

smi0006 wrote:

Not really - the point is to disrupt QF, whilst keeping the public onside. Ruining everyone’s Christmas will just upset the public. Disruptions in Feb would be far less damaging, they will probs threaten Dec/Jan then post school holidays go on strike.


There’s also actions they can do short of a strike to put pressure on the company without disrupting passengers.

Of course this would all be fixed if the company came to the table and realised asking flight attendants to take an effective 11% pay cut whilst demanding a 30% hour increase in a time of record profits is never going to work. What’s wrong with paying your employees wages that match inflation and the same work rules which are about to make you a $1.45b profit?
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 3596
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:03 am

OffTheRails wrote:
Australian aviation are reporting REX 737 operations has been profitable through both September and October. Whilst only a slight profit in September, October saw a 2 million dollar profit generated. Interestingly their SAAB operations have been "loss making" and don't intend to return to profitability until Q3 2023.

https://australianaviation.com.au/2022/ ... september/

Well done to their 737 operations although I do suspect the fruits they are enjoying is the strong demand for domestic travel within Australia at the moment.


Honestly, if an airline is not making money in current conditions, there would have to be major concerns raised.

High demand, higher fares equate to a perfect operating environment. If they have the staff, they should be able to be quite healthy in terms of performance.

I am still struggling to see how Rex fits into the bigger picture, with QF/JQ seemingly consolidating their position based on financial performance and VA also making positive statements. I would love to see them do well but I also don’t really see their brand positioning and value proposition being very clear. If they offered something new and innovative that would be interesting, but time will tell for them.
 
bunumuring
Posts: 2632
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:56 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:29 pm

Hey guys,
Congratulations and thanks to anyone and everyone involved in organising and running today's special day at Sydney Airport.
Lots and lots of very happy people participated in it : the airside bus tours were an absolute smash hit and being 'up close and personal' with the RAF A400M, and then having it take off right next to us parked in the bus on the edge of the runway, was simply sensational! The power of those turboprops in full roar could be 'felt' by everyone inside the bus.
Take care,
Bunumuring
 
JJWess
Posts: 118
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:30 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:12 pm

IndianicWorld wrote:
OffTheRails wrote:
Australian aviation are reporting REX 737 operations has been profitable through both September and October. Whilst only a slight profit in September, October saw a 2 million dollar profit generated. Interestingly their SAAB operations have been "loss making" and don't intend to return to profitability until Q3 2023.

https://australianaviation.com.au/2022/ ... september/

Well done to their 737 operations although I do suspect the fruits they are enjoying is the strong demand for domestic travel within Australia at the moment.


Honestly, if an airline is not making money in current conditions, there would have to be major concerns raised.

High demand, higher fares equate to a perfect operating environment. If they have the staff, they should be able to be quite healthy in terms of performance.

I am still struggling to see how Rex fits into the bigger picture, with QF/JQ seemingly consolidating their position based on financial performance and VA also making positive statements. I would love to see them do well but I also don’t really see their brand positioning and value proposition being very clear. If they offered something new and innovative that would be interesting, but time will tell for them.


I mean, I feel that they could? If you live in a regional centre in Vic, and you’re trying to go to a city in Qld like BNE or OOL, you can now book through Rex all the way - so I feel that their regional network has the potential to “feed” into their jet operations. Ceased airlines like Tiger really had nothing unique about them as they only operated on competitive routes between the capital cities - no extensive regional network to feed passengers from.

I still hope they continue to succeed - much prefer having more choices when it comes to flying.
 
Sydscott
Posts: 3610
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:50 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Sun Nov 27, 2022 12:23 am

JJWess wrote:
IndianicWorld wrote:
OffTheRails wrote:
Australian aviation are reporting REX 737 operations has been profitable through both September and October. Whilst only a slight profit in September, October saw a 2 million dollar profit generated. Interestingly their SAAB operations have been "loss making" and don't intend to return to profitability until Q3 2023.

https://australianaviation.com.au/2022/ ... september/

Well done to their 737 operations although I do suspect the fruits they are enjoying is the strong demand for domestic travel within Australia at the moment.


Honestly, if an airline is not making money in current conditions, there would have to be major concerns raised.

High demand, higher fares equate to a perfect operating environment. If they have the staff, they should be able to be quite healthy in terms of performance.

I am still struggling to see how Rex fits into the bigger picture, with QF/JQ seemingly consolidating their position based on financial performance and VA also making positive statements. I would love to see them do well but I also don’t really see their brand positioning and value proposition being very clear. If they offered something new and innovative that would be interesting, but time will tell for them.


I mean, I feel that they could? If you live in a regional centre in Vic, and you’re trying to go to a city in Qld like BNE or OOL, you can now book through Rex all the way - so I feel that their regional network has the potential to “feed” into their jet operations. Ceased airlines like Tiger really had nothing unique about them as they only operated on competitive routes between the capital cities - no extensive regional network to feed passengers from.

I still hope they continue to succeed - much prefer having more choices when it comes to flying.


Their proposition is pretty easy. On Thursday a colleague needed to be an urgent trip to Brisbane on Friday. Less than 24 hours out Qantas Economy return was $2k. REX Business Class was $800 return. So he went REX and said they were great. That's the third example of someone going REX because QF was too expensive so we are thinking of just switching to them and searching their schedule first for flights. That's how REX builds share and loyalty especially since flying QF Internationally is so expensive due to lack of capacity and limited reward seats. Where I would have done Qantas flying this year 4 out of 5 trips have been on Singapore Airlines in Business Class due to price and I know quite a few people who do semi regular travel for work who have found the same. SQ and EK are smashing it so while I can understand QF wanting to make money in a capacity constrained market, they're going to shoot themselves in the foot a bit and all of the loyalty points in the world aren't going to make a difference.
 
vhebb
Posts: 429
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:37 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:14 am

Jetstar at it again, plenty of lengthy 787 delays in the past week, plus numerous HKT cancellations recently.
 
jrfspa320
Posts: 912
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:18 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:26 am

vhebb wrote:
Jetstar at it again, plenty of lengthy 787 delays in the past week, plus numerous HKT cancellations recently.


No different to Qantas then, they have two 787 out of action, lengthy delays and cancelled flights this week especially across the pacific
 
vhebb
Posts: 429
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:37 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:02 am

In that case we need EU style passenger compensation ASAP!
 
MLflyer
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:03 am

LATAM has loaded MEL-SCL into its schedule, effective 17JUL, operating 3 weekly:

LA805 SCL 00:55 - 5:30+1 MEL 789 135
LA804 MEL 12:25 - 11:20 SCL 789 246

Welcome back LATAM to MEL! It will bring much needed seats in the Sth America - Australia corridor.
 
Qf648
Posts: 99
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:49 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Sun Nov 27, 2022 4:01 am

Sydscott wrote:
JJWess wrote:
IndianicWorld wrote:

Honestly, if an airline is not making money in current conditions, there would have to be major concerns raised.

High demand, higher fares equate to a perfect operating environment. If they have the staff, they should be able to be quite healthy in terms of performance.

I am still struggling to see how Rex fits into the bigger picture, with QF/JQ seemingly consolidating their position based on financial performance and VA also making positive statements. I would love to see them do well but I also don’t really see their brand positioning and value proposition being very clear. If they offered something new and innovative that would be interesting, but time will tell for them.


I mean, I feel that they could? If you live in a regional centre in Vic, and you’re trying to go to a city in Qld like BNE or OOL, you can now book through Rex all the way - so I feel that their regional network has the potential to “feed” into their jet operations. Ceased airlines like Tiger really had nothing unique about them as they only operated on competitive routes between the capital cities - no extensive regional network to feed passengers from.

I still hope they continue to succeed - much prefer having more choices when it comes to flying.


Their proposition is pretty easy. On Thursday a colleague needed to be an urgent trip to Brisbane on Friday. Less than 24 hours out Qantas Economy return was $2k. REX Business Class was $800 return. So he went REX and said they were great. That's the third example of someone going REX because QF was too expensive so we are thinking of just switching to them and searching their schedule first for flights. That's how REX builds share and loyalty especially since flying QF Internationally is so expensive due to lack of capacity and limited reward seats. Where I would have done Qantas flying this year 4 out of 5 trips have been on Singapore Airlines in Business Class due to price and I know quite a few people who do semi regular travel for work who have found the same. SQ and EK are smashing it so while I can understand QF wanting to make money in a capacity constrained market, they're going to shoot themselves in the foot a bit and all of the loyalty points in the world aren't going to make a difference.



I’m no REX fanboy. Most of their routes are subsidised and they gouge the hell out of regional communities because of it. If you think an intercity ticket is more expensive than flying overseas, regional is another level again.

But despite this, and being a QF Platinum, I’m enjoying REX more lately. I get more legroom, just as good seat selection and the plane is pretty much on time. I don’t have a lot to complain about. Airfare is expensive but no where near the current level of gouging Qantas is employing.

I’d just like something akin to a FF program and status matching and I’d probably be happy to give the red roo a miss unless I had to.

And that’s the key thing at the moment - any other airline could steal marketshare with decent and timely service off QF at the moment
 
Coaster
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:41 am

Security breach in the VA terminal at BNE this afternoon.

A number of people have been detained after a security breach at Brisbane Airport's domestic terminal.

It is understood those involved refused to comply with directions at a security checkpoint on Sunday afternoon.


https://au.news.yahoo.com/security-brea ... 38115.html

https://newsroom.bne.com.au/delays-at-b ... mber-2022/
 
Coaster
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:18 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:45 am

D7 return to OOL appears imminent, with the Station Manager role advertised on LinkedIn.

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/3367274869/
 
anstar
Posts: 3503
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:15 am

Qf648 wrote:

But despite this, and being a QF Platinum, I’m enjoying REX more lately. I get more legroom, just as good seat selection and the plane is pretty much on time. I don’t have a lot to complain about. Airfare is expensive but no where near the current level of gouging Qantas is employing.

I’d just like something akin to a FF program and status matching and I’d probably be happy to give the red roo a miss unless I had to.

And that’s the key thing at the moment - any other airline could steal marketshare with decent and timely service off QF at the moment


QF have been arrogant since the demise of Ansett with the continual enhancing of its FF program. They have kept cutting so much that it's now started to show and for once in the last 20 years pax are starting to vote with their feet. Their reduction in premium rewards is also starting to annoy their customers.
 
a320fan
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Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 5:04 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:29 am

Whilst I don’t completely agree with some of the business ethics QF engage in I do think overall Alan Joyce has done a pretty good job in the role turning QF from a bloated former public enterprise into a lean and profitable operation that can effectively compete with the low cost focused foreign owned competitors. The question needs to be asked though how long should a leader of a publicly traded company stay in the role before it becomes the company’s best interest to move on to some fresh blood? A question only the board and shareholders can answer; But AJ will hit 15 years in the role next year. In the aviation industry that’s a really long time.
 
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EK413
Posts: 5931
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:11 pm

Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:10 am

vhebb wrote:
Jetstar at it again, plenty of lengthy 787 delays in the past week, plus numerous HKT cancellations recently.

A majority of the JQ delays were G20 Summit related not mechanical as majority of the fleet has gone through the repaint process.

As for QF heard through the grapevine 1 B789 -ZNG has been damaged in LAX. Searching on Flightradar24 the aircraft last flew QF93 MELLAX 14th of November.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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ClassicLover
Posts: 5638
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:20 pm

a320fan wrote:
Whilst I don’t completely agree with some of the business ethics QF engage in I do think overall Alan Joyce has done a pretty good job in the role turning QF from a bloated former public enterprise into a lean and profitable operation that can effectively compete with the low cost focused foreign owned competitors. The question needs to be asked though how long should a leader of a publicly traded company stay in the role before it becomes the company’s best interest to move on to some fresh blood? A question only the board and shareholders can answer; But AJ will hit 15 years in the role next year. In the aviation industry that’s a really long time.


Well, Michael O'Leary has been CEO of Ryanair since 1994, so he's 28 years in and they're a very successful publicly traded company. Willie Walsh was 15 years as CEO at British Airways, and Tim Clark is 19 years as President of Emirates. Hell, Herb Kelleher was 30 years at Southwest and there are other examples too.

Why would Alan Joyce leave? Qantas is raking in money which will please the shareholders and that means the airline will keep him on. I would place money on him staying through to the Project Sunrise flights start, at the very least. After that, who knows, but he certainly hasn't been there too long. Usually a CEO gets the boot if the financial performance lags, otherwise they elect to move on themselves for whatever reason.
 
evanb
Posts: 1346
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:37 pm

ClassicLover wrote:
Well, Michael O'Leary has been CEO of Ryanair since 1994, so he's 28 years in and they're a very successful publicly traded company. Willie Walsh was 15 years as CEO at British Airways, and Tim Clark is 19 years as President of Emirates. Hell, Herb Kelleher was 30 years at Southwest and there are other examples too.

Why would Alan Joyce leave? Qantas is raking in money which will please the shareholders and that means the airline will keep him on. I would place money on him staying through to the Project Sunrise flights start, at the very least. After that, who knows, but he certainly hasn't been there too long. Usually a CEO gets the boot if the financial performance lags, otherwise they elect to move on themselves for whatever reason.


Indeed, I don't see any pressure on Joyce. Certainly not from the board. If anything, might Joyce be tempted by a bigger challenge from a larger European carrier?

While the examples are certainly important, they all have/had some significant differences. O'Leary and Kelleher are/were very large shareholders with significantly greater influence over the boards. Emirates isn't publicly traded, so Clark doesn't get the same scrutiny.
 
evanb
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:07 am

EK413 wrote:
As for QF heard through the grapevine 1 B789 -ZNG has been damaged in LAX. Searching on Flightradar24 the aircraft last flew QF93 MELLAX 14th of November.


There is some context to it. The rumour going around wasn't that it's been down since 14/11, but that it was damaged during planned maintenance at LAX. It flew MEL-LAX QF 93 on 14/11, but the return QF 94 flew 14/11 on ZNF which rotated in on 14/11 as QF 17 SYD LAX. There was no QF 17 (LAX-SYD) scheduled on 14/11 - hence the planned maintenance stop in LAX which isn't unusual.
 
evanb
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:13 am

jrfspa320 wrote:
vhebb wrote:
Jetstar at it again, plenty of lengthy 787 delays in the past week, plus numerous HKT cancellations recently.


No different to Qantas then, they have two 787 out of action, lengthy delays and cancelled flights this week especially across the pacific


Which is the second? ZNG is in LAX for maintenance that got extended by an avoidable mishap, but not sure of another that is out of action.
 
jrfspa320
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:27 am

evanb wrote:
jrfspa320 wrote:
vhebb wrote:
Jetstar at it again, plenty of lengthy 787 delays in the past week, plus numerous HKT cancellations recently.


No different to Qantas then, they have two 787 out of action, lengthy delays and cancelled flights this week especially across the pacific


Which is the second? ZNG is in LAX for maintenance that got extended by an avoidable mishap, but not sure of another that is out of action.


ZNE was out between 21-26 Nov. Also the commitment to Antarctic charters required further scheduled flights to be cancelled
 
ABpositive
Posts: 287
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:44 am

evanb wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
tristans wrote:
FR24 showing to LHR, operating QF2 upon arrival?


Has OQD (current QF1) had its spar checks?


VH-OQA: wing spar check complete; correction from earlier, I believe it has not had refurbishment yet, but is transiting through LHR to DRS or AUH for refurbishment.
VH-OQB: in service; wing spar check not yet completed
VH-OQC: wing spar check not completed; in AUH for refurbishment at present
VH-OQD: in service; wing spar check not yet completed
VH-OQE: storage in VCV
VH-OQF: scrapped at VCV
VH-OQG: wing spar check not completed; in AUH for refurbishment at present
VH-OQH: in service; wing spar check not yet completed
VH-OQI: storage in VCV
VH-OQJ: in service; wing spar check completed Sept/Oct.
VH-OQK: currently in maintenance receiving wing spar check in SYD.
VH-OQL: will position from VCV to LAX in coming days for maintenance (including wing spar)


Has Qantas any other aircraft expected to come out of storage (i.e. non-A380) ?
 
log0008
Posts: 601
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:05 am

ZNG suffered damage in maintenance at LAX.
ZNE went tech and required parts from the US

JQ 787 fleet is just stretched beyond a manageable schedule. Every single aircraft has some maintenance work done when it's on the ramp, often this delays departures by an hour as they are still finishing up whatever have been planned. A JQ 787 was also damaged, I believe in maintenance about a week ago and resulted in a handful of cancelations and 24 hour + delays.

VKA is currently down in HKT awaiting parts from MEL.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:31 am

ABpositive wrote:

Has Qantas any other aircraft expected to come out of storage (i.e. non-A380) ?


It's a bit confusing as to the status of the final inactive A330s.

A333 QPG hasn't flown since April; not sure what is happening with it. It was doing lots of underbelly freighter work prior to being removed.
A332 EBB and EBD (both original Cityflyer birds) haven't been reactivated. I'm not sure if they have been retired or not.
A332 EBF has been withdrawn for freighter conversion I think.

Other than that, the only pending additions to the fleet apart from the A380s are the 3 new 789s which are in the queue in Seattle to get fixed before delivery.
Last edited by tullamarine on Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:32 am

Deleted
 
Sydscott
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:48 am

tullamarine wrote:
ABpositive wrote:

Has Qantas any other aircraft expected to come out of storage (i.e. non-A380) ?


It's a bit confusing as to the status of the final inactive A330s.

A333 QPG hasn't flown since April; not sure what is happening with it. It was doing lots of underbelly freighter work prior to being removed.
A332 EBB and EBD (both original Cityflyer birds) haven't been reactivated. I'm not sure if they have been retired or not.
A332 EBF has been withdrawn for freighter conversion I think.

Other than that, the only pending additions to the fleet apart from the A380s are the 3 new 789s which are in the queue in Seattle to get fixed before delivery.


It does seem a bit dumb to have A330's out of commission with demand the way it is!
 
Sydscott
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:51 am

Qf648 wrote:
Sydscott wrote:
JJWess wrote:

I mean, I feel that they could? If you live in a regional centre in Vic, and you’re trying to go to a city in Qld like BNE or OOL, you can now book through Rex all the way - so I feel that their regional network has the potential to “feed” into their jet operations. Ceased airlines like Tiger really had nothing unique about them as they only operated on competitive routes between the capital cities - no extensive regional network to feed passengers from.

I still hope they continue to succeed - much prefer having more choices when it comes to flying.


Their proposition is pretty easy. On Thursday a colleague needed to be an urgent trip to Brisbane on Friday. Less than 24 hours out Qantas Economy return was $2k. REX Business Class was $800 return. So he went REX and said they were great. That's the third example of someone going REX because QF was too expensive so we are thinking of just switching to them and searching their schedule first for flights. That's how REX builds share and loyalty especially since flying QF Internationally is so expensive due to lack of capacity and limited reward seats. Where I would have done Qantas flying this year 4 out of 5 trips have been on Singapore Airlines in Business Class due to price and I know quite a few people who do semi regular travel for work who have found the same. SQ and EK are smashing it so while I can understand QF wanting to make money in a capacity constrained market, they're going to shoot themselves in the foot a bit and all of the loyalty points in the world aren't going to make a difference.



I’m no REX fanboy. Most of their routes are subsidised and they gouge the hell out of regional communities because of it. If you think an intercity ticket is more expensive than flying overseas, regional is another level again.

But despite this, and being a QF Platinum, I’m enjoying REX more lately. I get more legroom, just as good seat selection and the plane is pretty much on time. I don’t have a lot to complain about. Airfare is expensive but no where near the current level of gouging Qantas is employing.

I’d just like something akin to a FF program and status matching and I’d probably be happy to give the red roo a miss unless I had to.

And that’s the key thing at the moment - any other airline could steal marketshare with decent and timely service off QF at the moment


I'm QF Platinum as well and I entirely agree with your sentiment.

evanb wrote:
ClassicLover wrote:
Well, Michael O'Leary has been CEO of Ryanair since 1994, so he's 28 years in and they're a very successful publicly traded company. Willie Walsh was 15 years as CEO at British Airways, and Tim Clark is 19 years as President of Emirates. Hell, Herb Kelleher was 30 years at Southwest and there are other examples too.

Why would Alan Joyce leave? Qantas is raking in money which will please the shareholders and that means the airline will keep him on. I would place money on him staying through to the Project Sunrise flights start, at the very least. After that, who knows, but he certainly hasn't been there too long. Usually a CEO gets the boot if the financial performance lags, otherwise they elect to move on themselves for whatever reason.


Indeed, I don't see any pressure on Joyce. Certainly not from the board. If anything, might Joyce be tempted by a bigger challenge from a larger European carrier?

While the examples are certainly important, they all have/had some significant differences. O'Leary and Kelleher are/were very large shareholders with significantly greater influence over the boards. Emirates isn't publicly traded, so Clark doesn't get the same scrutiny.


The issue you have with long tenured CEO's is that eventually they stifle innovation and new thought processes for the business. Project Sunrise, while a headline grabber, isn't particularly innovative and the QF onboard experience, the lounge experience and the International network all need new thoughts, new ideas and innovations. That's the reason AJ should go, he's hollowed out the QF Executive ranks by staying as long as he has.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 9377
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:53 am

Sydscott wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
ABpositive wrote:

Has Qantas any other aircraft expected to come out of storage (i.e. non-A380) ?


It's a bit confusing as to the status of the final inactive A330s.

A333 QPG hasn't flown since April; not sure what is happening with it. It was doing lots of underbelly freighter work prior to being removed.
A332 EBB and EBD (both original Cityflyer birds) haven't been reactivated. I'm not sure if they have been retired or not.
A332 EBF has been withdrawn for freighter conversion I think.

Other than that, the only pending additions to the fleet apart from the A380s are the 3 new 789s which are in the queue in Seattle to get fixed before delivery.


It does seem a bit dumb to have A330's out of commission with demand the way it is!


Perhaps not enough crew?

The A330 is versatile, demand for Asia is still well down where the A330 excels. Other than that a few AKL turns and PER runs. Then you have them on BNE-LAX.
 
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Velocity7
Posts: 156
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:10 am

Sydscott wrote:

The issue you have with long tenured CEO's is that eventually they stifle innovation and new thought processes for the business. Project Sunrise, while a headline grabber, isn't particularly innovative and the QF onboard experience, the lounge experience and the International network all need new thoughts, new ideas and innovations. That's the reason AJ should go, he's hollowed out the QF Executive ranks by staying as long as he has.


This 100%. They forget what good looks like and are unable to draw on different perspectives that may bring on true innovation.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:35 am

Sydscott wrote:
The issue you have with long tenured CEO's is that eventually they stifle innovation and new thought processes for the business. Project Sunrise, while a headline grabber, isn't particularly innovative and the QF onboard experience, the lounge experience and the International network all need new thoughts, new ideas and innovations. That's the reason AJ should go, he's hollowed out the QF Executive ranks by staying as long as he has.


Agreed entirely. And you’re spot on about hollowing out the executive ranks, which could become an issue as Qantas historically has always promoted internally. The BoD would surely look externally as the obvious internal candidates have left (maybe Olivia Wirth with time to develop more experience?). People from Jayne Hrdlycka to Gareth Evans, with a few others in between, thought that they were the next big thing but eventually quit when it became clear that they would be waiting years when there were better options available now.

As an off-topic aside to the post you responded to, Walsh wasn’t CEO of BA for 15 years. He spent 5 years at BA before becoming CEO of IAG. That might sound like a distinction in search of a difference, but it isn’t IMHO.
 
MLflyer
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:49 am

New airline, more services and exciting route resumptions!

Batik Air (Indonesia) will begin ops into MEL and SYD! Operating daily services to DPS from 03JAN:
https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/221128-id1q23au

Batik Air Malaysia will extend it's MEL-KUL non-stop service to a year round service from 30MAR: This is in addition to it's existing daily MEL-DPS-KUL service.
https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/221128-odns23mel

LATAM Chile resumes service on MEL-SCL route from 17JUL:
https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/221128-lajul23mel

Korean Air increases SYD-ICN services to daily from 25MAR:
https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/221125-kens23aklsyd
 
vhebb
Posts: 429
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:37 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:47 am

EK413 wrote:
vhebb wrote:
Jetstar at it again, plenty of lengthy 787 delays in the past week, plus numerous HKT cancellations recently.

A majority of the JQ delays were G20 Summit related not mechanical as majority of the fleet has gone through the repaint process.

As for QF heard through the grapevine 1 B789 -ZNG has been damaged in LAX. Searching on Flightradar24 the aircraft last flew QF93 MELLAX 14th of November.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The G20 was almost 2 weeks ago. JQ had extensive Bali delays as recently as this past weekend 26th and 27th. Disruptions seem to be business as normal for JQ.

Clearly JQ and QF are both pushing a schedule that can't be sustained which is at the expense of the passengers. We desperately need EU style compensation laws. The argument that will push up fares is mute considering both airfares and disruptions are at record highs.
Last edited by vhebb on Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
freshwater
Posts: 63
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:48 am

[quote="MLflyer"]New airline, more services and exciting route resumptions!

Batik Air (Indonesia) will begin ops into MEL and SYD! Operating daily services to DPS from 03JAN:
https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/221128-id1q23au

Batik Air Malaysia will extend it's MEL-KUL non-stop service to a year round service from 30MAR: This is in addition to it's existing daily MEL-DPS-KUL service.
https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/221128-odns23mel

So the Lionair Group will be double daily DPS-SYD/MEL next year? They've really caught a crippled Garuda on the hop here!
 
vhebb
Posts: 429
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:37 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:57 am

freshwater wrote:
So the Lionair Group will be double daily DPS-SYD/MEL next year? They've really caught a crippled Garuda on the hop here!


Perhaps they have seen a growing market of disgruntled JQ passengers?
 
FL420FT
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:30 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:11 am

Can add some infomation tor ZNG and the A380's...

ZNG aparently is also requiring a rudder change, latest predicions for return to service is 12 December.

No more A380's from AUH until approximately the middle of January (I've hard the 13th).
 
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ClassicLover
Posts: 5638
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:09 pm

Sydscott wrote:
The issue you have with long tenured CEO's is that eventually they stifle innovation and new thought processes for the business. Project Sunrise, while a headline grabber, isn't particularly innovative and the QF onboard experience, the lounge experience and the International network all need new thoughts, new ideas and innovations. That's the reason AJ should go, he's hollowed out the QF Executive ranks by staying as long as he has.


I agree with you on the on board experience. It's remarkable flying regularly on BA in Club Europe, and then flying Qantas domestically in J. From a catering perspective, BA is head and shoulders above QF (with SWISS within Europe in business class even better again). Compare ticket prices though and Qantas is usually three to four times more expensive. I know the market can support the prices, but being cheap with the meals at those prices is a bit of a smack to the face for those travelling up front.

I wouldn't say the lounge experience isn't particularly bad though, and the F lounges remain world class. Not sure what you mean about the international network, but certainly take your point with regards to losing talent from the executive ranks and so on. I agree on all of that too.
 
evanb
Posts: 1346
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:34 am

Sydscott wrote:
The issue you have with long tenured CEO's is that eventually they stifle innovation and new thought processes for the business. Project Sunrise, while a headline grabber, isn't particularly innovative and the QF onboard experience, the lounge experience and the International network all need new thoughts, new ideas and innovations. That's the reason AJ should go, he's hollowed out the QF Executive ranks by staying as long as he has.


Totally agree with regards to the risks of long tenured CEO's, although I think your view of innovation is quite narrow. I'm not sure an airline of QF's size can be particularly innovative in terms of onboard product and experience. Instead, I'd argue that Joyce headlined some significant innovations that were right for QF's market and business. He was the driver behind the two brand strategy that several legacies in Europe and the US tried and failed. Some may argue that it saved QF.

The JV with EK in 2013 was hugely innovative and saved their bacon on European routes (potentially a short term measure until they could start getting non-stops into LHR). Up until this point, EK had clearly been a go it alone airline, and the choice to enter a JV at the time was provocative to say the least. While the nature of that relationship has evolved it was rather innovative for the time.

While I agree that much of the fanfare of Project Sunrise is rather headline grabbing in nature, the use of unusually low density cabins to make it happen was somewhat innovative. It's not like we've seen other airlines attempt to reach Australia non-stop from Europe or the east coast of the US.
 
evanb
Posts: 1346
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:42 am

ClassicLover wrote:
I agree with you on the on board experience. It's remarkable flying regularly on BA in Club Europe, and then flying Qantas domestically in J. From a catering perspective, BA is head and shoulders above QF (with SWISS within Europe in business class even better again). Compare ticket prices though and Qantas is usually three to four times more expensive. I know the market can support the prices, but being cheap with the meals at those prices is a bit of a smack to the face for those travelling up front.


Both BA and LX (and almost all other European legacy carriers sell a Y class seat as J, simply keeping the middle (in a three seater) or neighbouring (in a two seater) seat empty for domestic/European flights. To even compare this to the QF domestic J (an actual short haul J seat) is preposterous, nevermind the lie flat on many trans-continental/Tasman or trunk route flights. And yes, that is what people are paying for, the seat! It entirely explains the pricing! When you book a business class fare and all you get is a blocked off seat next to you, that you may have just gotten by luck in economy anyway, then I would see that as a slap in the face.
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