Welcome to the Australian Aviation Thread November 2022. Please continue your discussion and to post your news here.

Link to previous thread:

Australian Aviation Thread - October 2022

Prospective Qantas B789 VH-ZNM has positioned from VCV to BFI:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/VHZ ... /KVCV/KBFI

Does anyone have any concrete info regarding the extra 3 x weekly QF PER-SIN services? There has been speculation around 738 late arvo flight ex Perth returning overnight... Was hoping it would be an A330 and a more desirable timing.

Speaking of additions, Bonza appear to have quietly signed on for more 737s, for a total of eleven.

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Bonza-Airline

Garuda Indonesia resumes MEL-DPS route,

The airline will fly 4 routes to Australia from December:

SYD - DPS: x2 weekly A333
SYD - CGK: x2 weekly A333/77W
MEL - DPS: x1 weekly A333
MEL - CGK: x2 weekly A333

Still a very limited schedule, I wonder why DPS is only 1-2 weekly services, I would atleast think they could start off with 3 weekly services from both SYD and MEL?

https://www.garuda-indonesia.com/au/en/ ... t-Schedule

MLflyer wrote:

Garuda Indonesia resumes MEL-DPS route,

The airline will fly 4 routes to Australia from December:

SYD - DPS: x2 weekly A333
SYD - CGK: x2 weekly A333/77W
MEL - DPS: x1 weekly A333
MEL - CGK: x2 weekly A333

Still a very limited schedule, I wonder why DPS is only 1-2 weekly services, I would atleast think they could start off with 3 weekly services from both SYD and MEL?

https://www.garuda-indonesia.com/au/en/ ... t-Schedule

Garuda are still in dire straits financially, so they are probably right to be so cautious.
Looks like they are focusing more on business / VFR traffic rather than flying tourists to Bali.

Not sure if Bali is well-known as a business route, even for Garuda. VFR traffic would be limited at best.
I would've thought PER would be a good opportunity for GA, being the only FSC on that route (as a product differentiator) against the numerous LCCs or hybrid LCCs (with a J recliner class) on the PER route.

ffan787 wrote:

Does anyone have any concrete info regarding the extra 3 x weekly QF PER-SIN services? There has been speculation around 738 late arvo flight ex Perth returning overnight... Was hoping it would be an A330 and a more desirable timing.

The extra services don't appear to have been loaded yet...

DeltaB717 wrote:

ffan787 wrote:

Does anyone have any concrete info regarding the extra 3 x weekly QF PER-SIN services? There has been speculation around 738 late arvo flight ex Perth returning overnight... Was hoping it would be an A330 and a more desirable timing.

The extra services don't appear to have been loaded yet...

Looks like the end of March

Whatsaptudo wrote:

DeltaB717 wrote:

ffan787 wrote:

Does anyone have any concrete info regarding the extra 3 x weekly QF PER-SIN services? There has been speculation around 738 late arvo flight ex Perth returning overnight... Was hoping it would be an A330 and a more desirable timing.

The extra services don't appear to have been loaded yet...

Looks like the end of March

From 26MAR
QF 077 357 PER 4 SIN 1 1635 2205 0 26MAR23 27OCT23 73H 5:30
QF 078 357 SIN 1 PER 3 2305 0415+1 0 26MAR23 27OCT23 73H 5:10

this is in conjunction with the existing daily flight
QF 071 D PER 4 SIN 1 1150 1720 0 26MAR23 28OCT23 332 5:30
QF 072 D SIN 1 PER 3 1840 2350 0 26MAR23 28OCT23 332 5:10

Today marks 100 years since QF’s first flight

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... takes-off/

tsurumaru wrote:

Speaking of additions, Bonza appear to have quietly signed on for more 737s, for a total of eleven.

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Bonza-Airline

Wait... they're anticipating to utilise 11 a/c right off the bat, even before they've recieved an AOC? Really???

Does anyone anticipate, by the way, that they'll be changing their orders in the future, so that they get the 7M7? The 7M8 is probably too big for their target.

aussie747 wrote:

Whatsaptudo wrote:

DeltaB717 wrote:

The extra services don't appear to have been loaded yet...

Looks like the end of March

From 26MAR
QF 077 357 PER 4 SIN 1 1635 2205 0 26MAR23 27OCT23 73H 5:30
QF 078 357 SIN 1 PER 3 2305 0415+1 0 26MAR23 27OCT23 73H 5:10

this is in conjunction with the existing daily flight
QF 071 D PER 4 SIN 1 1150 1720 0 26MAR23 28OCT23 332 5:30
QF 072 D SIN 1 PER 3 1840 2350 0 26MAR23 28OCT23 332 5:10

Thanks all three of you for the replies. As expected, 738 services with unfriendly times (for myself at least...)

Good to know

aussie747 wrote:

Whatsaptudo wrote:

DeltaB717 wrote:

The extra services don't appear to have been loaded yet...

Looks like the end of March

From 26MAR
QF 077 357 PER 4 SIN 1 1635 2205 0 26MAR23 27OCT23 73H 5:30
QF 078 357 SIN 1 PER 3 2305 0415+1 0 26MAR23 27OCT23 73H 5:10

this is in conjunction with the existing daily flight
QF 071 D PER 4 SIN 1 1150 1720 0 26MAR23 28OCT23 332 5:30
QF 072 D SIN 1 PER 3 1840 2350 0 26MAR23 28OCT23 332 5:10

So if the PER-CGK flights were canned because of an apparent disagreement with customs/border force, how is this any different with the similar times?

F100Flyer wrote:

aussie747 wrote:

Whatsaptudo wrote:

Looks like the end of March

From 26MAR
QF 077 357 PER 4 SIN 1 1635 2205 0 26MAR23 27OCT23 73H 5:30
QF 078 357 SIN 1 PER 3 2305 0415+1 0 26MAR23 27OCT23 73H 5:10

this is in conjunction with the existing daily flight
QF 071 D PER 4 SIN 1 1150 1720 0 26MAR23 28OCT23 332 5:30
QF 072 D SIN 1 PER 3 1840 2350 0 26MAR23 28OCT23 332 5:10

So if the PER-CGK flights were canned because of an apparent disagreement with customs/border force, how is this any different with the similar times?

Probably just means the Border Control issues were a bit of an excuse for a route that wasn't looking like being a success so was canned.

tullamarine wrote:

F100Flyer wrote:

aussie747 wrote:

From 26MAR
QF 077 357 PER 4 SIN 1 1635 2205 0 26MAR23 27OCT23 73H 5:30
QF 078 357 SIN 1 PER 3 2305 0415+1 0 26MAR23 27OCT23 73H 5:10

this is in conjunction with the existing daily flight
QF 071 D PER 4 SIN 1 1150 1720 0 26MAR23 28OCT23 332 5:30
QF 072 D SIN 1 PER 3 1840 2350 0 26MAR23 28OCT23 332 5:10

So if the PER-CGK flights were canned because of an apparent disagreement with customs/border force, how is this any different with the similar times?

Probably just means the Border Control issues were a bit of an excuse for a route that wasn't looking like being a success so was canned.

Considering PER-CGK was one of those many State/Private partnership routes (Reconnecting WA), I would hope QF handed the money back to the PAPL and WA Governments for deciding not to commence the route.

SCFlyer wrote:

tullamarine wrote:

F100Flyer wrote:

So if the PER-CGK flights were canned because of an apparent disagreement with customs/border force, how is this any different with the similar times?

Probably just means the Border Control issues were a bit of an excuse for a route that wasn't looking like being a success so was canned.

Considering PER-CGK was one of those many State/Private partnership routes (Reconnecting WA), I would hope QF handed the money back to the PAPL and WA Governments for deciding not to commence the route.

I’d say it was more to do with Biosecurity risk assessments, and the level of, or percentage of a flight that required full x-ray screening. Singapore lower risk etc.

I believe funding is more in the way of discounts on aeronautical charges, or underwriting of services - never paid in advanced. Marketing would be joint - and focus on WA as a destination probs small change.

AdvancedBikkie wrote:

tsurumaru wrote:

Speaking of additions, Bonza appear to have quietly signed on for more 737s, for a total of eleven.

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Bonza-Airline

Wait... they're anticipating to utilise 11 a/c right off the bat, even before they've recieved an AOC? Really???

Does anyone anticipate, by the way, that they'll be changing their orders in the future, so that they get the 7M7? The 7M8 is probably too big for their target.

Apparently so. They've even been allocated registration marks for nine frames - one more than the intial eight they planned for.
They will have to start looking for more places to send the extra aircraft to.

Speaking of Bonza, any updates on their AOC application process?
The whole thing seems to be taking much longer than initially expected.

https://australianaviation.com.au/2022/ ... nch-delay/

smi0006 wrote:

SCFlyer wrote:

tullamarine wrote:

Probably just means the Border Control issues were a bit of an excuse for a route that wasn't looking like being a success so was canned.

Considering PER-CGK was one of those many State/Private partnership routes (Reconnecting WA), I would hope QF handed the money back to the PAPL and WA Governments for deciding not to commence the route.

I’d say it was more to do with Biosecurity risk assessments, and the level of, or percentage of a flight that required full x-ray screening. Singapore lower risk etc.

Singapore is deemed lower risk than Indonesia, for both customs (drugs) and quarantine (foot and mouth etc). T3 customs and quarantine was a stop-gap measure, intended to solely serve low-risk UK and Singapore, shoved in the corner of an otherwise domestic terminal. It was not designed to have the capacity to manage inspection on the level of T1 or international terminals in other ports. It seems that was overlooked when CGK and JNB (both high risk) were announced.

Apparently so. They've even been allocated registration marks for nine frames - one more than the intial eight they planned for.
They will have to start looking for more places to send the extra aircraft to.

Speaking of Bonza, any updates on their AOC application process?
The whole thing seems to be taking much longer than initially expected.

Well they don’t appear to have hired ground crews around the nation and the airports outside of MCY don’t have anything Bonza so it won’t be starting this month by the looks.

They have not refit the aircraft interiors yet either which they said they are planning to do.

CASA offices would likely close down or go on lite mode for the festive period like everything else in the ACT. So mid December to Mid Jan don’t expect much progress.

Perhaps Easter 2023 seems more likely

AdvancedBikkie wrote:

tsurumaru wrote:

Speaking of additions, Bonza appear to have quietly signed on for more 737s, for a total of eleven.

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Bonza-Airline

Wait... they're anticipating to utilise 11 a/c right off the bat, even before they've recieved an AOC? Really???

Does anyone anticipate, by the way, that they'll be changing their orders in the future, so that they get the 7M7? The 7M8 is probably too big for their target.

Bonza may of got a deal that they couldn't refuse.

It was recently reported that Boeing had a large number of MAX aircraft to offload.
These a/c were either NTU and/embargoed (Russian)

Don’t CASA have restrictions on a AOC with aircraft numbers and types? Ie they couldn’t start with 10-20 aircraft. I remember Tiger way back when they started had a 6 month restriction of 5 aircraft then after a review it was increased after that and so on etc

Curious if anyone can answer.... how common are runway closures at other major airports (eg MEL, SYD). I get updates from BNE about scheduled maintenance leading to runway closures. I'm aware that maintenance has to occur, but it just seems to be done at BNE during the daytime (usually on weekends but occasionally on the odd weekday). Perhaps due to less traffic and them being able to manage with 1 runway on slower days?

AirbusA322 wrote:

Apparently so. They've even been allocated registration marks for nine frames - one more than the intial eight they planned for.
They will have to start looking for more places to send the extra aircraft to.

Speaking of Bonza, any updates on their AOC application process?
The whole thing seems to be taking much longer than initially expected.

Well they don’t appear to have hired ground crews around the nation and the airports outside of MCY don’t have anything Bonza so it won’t be starting this month by the looks.

They have not refit the aircraft interiors yet either which they said they are planning to do.

CASA offices would likely close down or go on lite mode for the festive period like everything else in the ACT. So mid December to Mid Jan don’t expect much progress.

Perhaps Easter 2023 seems more likely

We need to remember that Bonza will be introducing a new aircraft type to the Australian register in the MAX 8, this in itself slows down the process of acquiring their AOC. Whilst type does fly here with SQ, FJ, OD there are none registered here.

It’s just a new engine isn’t it? A321N doesn’t get the same treatment from CASA

AirbusA322 wrote:

It’s just a new engine isn’t it? A321N doesn’t get the same treatment from CASA

It's a new airline and aircraft type, bit more than introducing the 321N to an established airline.

Qantas is in award winning form, winning a “Shonky” award for being “The spirit of disappointment”:

https://www.smh.com.au/business/workpla ... 5buqt.html
(Open in private window)

From Choice.

LTEN11 wrote:

AirbusA322 wrote:

It’s just a new engine isn’t it? A321N doesn’t get the same treatment from CASA

It's a new airline and aircraft type, bit more than introducing the 321N to an established airline.

When JQ introduced the B787 it went through the same process of route-proving, SOP checks ....

Bonza has to prove it can operate and airline (safely) whilst at the same time getting a new TYPE certification.

When VA introduce the MAX early next year, the type certification will be done and it should be an easy integration with the existing fleet.

Same as when QF introduced the B787. JQ had done the type certification.

cpd wrote:

Qantas is in award winning form, winning a “Shonky” award for being “The spirit of disappointment”:

https://www.smh.com.au/business/workpla ... 5buqt.html
(Open in private window)

From Choice.

Well deserved! In some cases they certainly went above and beyond to earn that award. Refusing refunds, devaluing flight credits, quietly cutting things like spirits in J class, food in lounges etc whilst charging sky high prices....

The Australian (paywall) is reporting that Bain will announce the appointment of Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley and, potentially, UBS to handle the IPO of around 40-50% of VA in 2023. With bumper conditions for Australian domestic operators, there will never be a better time for Bain to convert some of its equity to cash at a tidy profit.

Even after the IPO, Bain will still retain a controlling stake. It will be interesting to see if it pursues a partial trade sale for some of those remaining shares to one of its major partners such as SQ or QR.

QR may be plausible, although there are questions on SQ getting involved again financially for a fourth time after burning billions on NZ (AN), TT (indirectly) and VA over the past few decades.

SCFlyer wrote:

QR may be plausible, although there are questions on SQ getting involved again financially for a fourth time after burning billions on NZ (AN), TT (indirectly) and VA over the past few decades.

What is SQ’s obsession getting a foot hold of the Australian Domestic market?!?

If they are so desperate then jump into bed with ZL…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

EK413 wrote:

SCFlyer wrote:

QR may be plausible, although there are questions on SQ getting involved again financially for a fourth time after burning billions on NZ (AN), TT (indirectly) and VA over the past few decades.

What is SQ’s obsession getting a foot hold of the Australian Domestic market?!?

If they are so desperate then jump into bed with ZL…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It hasn't happened; it is just a possibility. There are reasons why SQ looks to invest in foreign shores though. It has a limited local market relying on its hub position and international travel which can deliver boom and bust returns. As a rule, domestic travel is more resilient, not offering the super returns but usually very stable. SQ has looked at investing in its two prime feeder markets, India (Vistara) and Australia so there is some logic even if they have been notoriously unsuccessful in AU up until now.

I really don't think they would have any interest in ZL which is too small to have any real influence in Australia.

SQ has also attempted the Thailand LCC market via the NokScoot joint venture (through their wholly-owned LCC FlyScoot). It wasn't all successful either, subsequently liquidating not long after the COVID shutdowns in March 2020.

tullamarine wrote:

SQ has looked at investing in its two prime feeder markets, India (Vistara) and Australia so there is some logic even if they have been notoriously unsuccessful in AU up until now.

IIRC SIA (Temasek) was looking at taking a leading stake in the Vistara/Air India merger from memory, alongside their fellow shareholder TaTa Sons. SQ were on record considering India as one of the most important markets (likely to be ahead of Australia due to the larger Indian population).

SIA (Temasek)

SIA and Temasek are not the same thing. Temasek is the government owned investment holding company and hold 56% of SIA stock but SIA is a separate company with a separate board who are also bound to operate in the interests of its other shareholders. Temasek has controlling interests in many Singapore companies including DBS Bank, Singtel and PSA but does not operate them as a conglomerate; it is an investment company.

Korean LCC T'Way launching to SYD from December

https://www.facebook.com/29683046702229 ... tS7n3pHxl/

New airline alert

T'way Air - 티웨이항공 will be flying a new four-weekly direct Sydney to Seoul Incheon service from 24 December.

This will be the airline's first long haul service. The route will operate on their new A330-300 with 12 business and 335 economy seats.

Flights with T’way Air from Sydney to Seoul Incheon start from AUD $314 one-way.

moa999 wrote:

Korean LCC T'Way launching to SYD from December

https://www.facebook.com/29683046702229 ... tS7n3pHxl/

New airline alert

T'way Air - 티웨이항공 will be flying a new four-weekly direct Sydney to Seoul Incheon service from 24 December.

This will be the airline's first long haul service. The route will operate on their new A330-300 with 12 business and 335 economy seats.

Flights with T’way Air from Sydney to Seoul Incheon start from AUD $314 one-way.

Speaking of which JQ’s inaugural SYD-ICN service commenced on the 2nd of November.

At the time of the announcement Jetstar was to become the only low-cost carrier to fly direct to South Korea from Sydney, with Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner flights operating three times per week.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cathay Pacific Cargo to operate a weekly service from Darwin to Hong Kong, named the "Mango Express". Runs for 5 weeks.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2022- ... /101612112

pommy80 wrote:

Cathay Pacific Cargo to operate a weekly service from Darwin to Hong Kong, named the "Mango Express". Runs for 5 weeks.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2022- ... /101612112

I love the fact that a 77W can carry 50000 kgs for freight, it is a beast.

So im currently waiting for my QLink flight from Sydney to Albury on QF2207 a Q400, this isn't what I want to share with you, it's a mere background.

I booked my flights awhile ago on the QANTAS website, for flights from Brisbane to Albury. I was on JQ813 this morning and as mentioned above I will be on QF2207 shortly, I also booked my accommodation through them aswell. This was easy to do.
So few days ago leading upto my departure day I perused over everything just to make sure all is ok. I couldn't check in JQ flight through the QF app (wasn't a concern, I did it through THE JQ app). However I couldn't check in my QF flight in the app, saying i had to do it at the airport!? Why? Well im glad you asked...
I rang customer service, absolute waste of time. The first person tried telling me i had to check in through Eastern Airlines as that's who my flight is through and insisted I rang them as per the number they gave me... ironically it was a Brisbane number for QANTAS!!!! The person insisted it was for Eastern Airlines.
I asked if I could speak to their supervisor, 'sorry we haven't any available to assist today'. So I ended the call.

In the end I wanted clarification that I wasn't missing something, hence calling customer service..... I wont bother again.

Sent from my SM-A526B using Tapatalk

So the consultants didn't even know that Eastern Airlines is QLink?

Like I said earlier shonky award is well deserved...

Can anyone link the BITRE Septembers traffic data??

James1980 wrote:

So im currently waiting for my QLink flight from Sydney to Albury on QF2207 a Q400, this isn't what I want to share with you, it's a mere background.

I booked my flights awhile ago on the QANTAS website, for flights from Brisbane to Albury. I was on JQ813 this morning and as mentioned above I will be on QF2207 shortly, I also booked my accommodation through them aswell. This was easy to do.
So few days ago leading upto my departure day I perused over everything just to make sure all is ok. I couldn't check in JQ flight through the QF app (wasn't a concern, I did it through THE JQ app). However I couldn't check in my QF flight in the app, saying i had to do it at the airport!? Why? Well im glad you asked...
I rang customer service, absolute waste of time. The first person tried telling me i had to check in through Eastern Airlines as that's who my flight is through and insisted I rang them as per the number they gave me... ironically it was a Brisbane number for QANTAS!!!! The person insisted it was for Eastern Airlines.
I asked if I could speak to their supervisor, 'sorry we haven't any available to assist today'. So I ended the call.

In the end I wanted clarification that I wasn't missing something, hence calling customer service..... I wont bother again.

Sent from my SM-A526B using Tapatalk

That’s so weird, Eastern Australia Airlines hasn’t publicly traded as such for over 20 years now.

sand26391 wrote:

Can anyone link the BITRE Septembers traffic data??

It’s not available yet

Jetstar Asia and Changi airport have come to an agreement which will see them move to Terminal 4 by mid March after initially stating they had no intentions of moving.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapo ... ?cid=FBcna

utaussiefan wrote:

Jetstar Asia and Changi airport have come to an agreement which will see them move to Terminal 4 by mid March after initially stating they had no intentions of moving.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapo ... ?cid=FBcna

That’s a shame for lounges access and interlining with QF. Will Scoot be down there too?

I wonder hutch traffic transfers between QF/3K

utaussiefan wrote:

Jetstar Asia and Changi airport have come to an agreement which will see them move to Terminal 4 by mid March after initially stating they had no intentions of moving.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapo ... ?cid=FBcna

does this mean that JQ's SIN-MEL remains in T1 where as all of 3K will be at T4?

Notice the article seem to only specify Jetstar Asia.

With the recent acquisition of Airwork by a Chinese company from a New Zealand firm, will this make any difference to its operations within Australia?