Australian Aviation Thread - November 2022

LamboAston · Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:54 am

AirbusA322 wrote:
Apparently so. They've even been allocated registration marks for nine frames - one more than the intial eight they planned for.
They will have to start looking for more places to send the extra aircraft to.

Speaking of Bonza, any updates on their AOC application process?
The whole thing seems to be taking much longer than initially expected.

Well they don’t appear to have hired ground crews around the nation and the airports outside of MCY don’t have anything Bonza so it won’t be starting this month by the looks.

They have not refit the aircraft interiors yet either which they said they are planning to do.

CASA offices would likely close down or go on lite mode for the festive period like everything else in the ACT. So mid December to Mid Jan don’t expect much progress.

Perhaps Easter 2023 seems more likely

They have ground crew in TSV, I know for sure as I know the trainer.

SQ22 · Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:00 am

Aviator34ID wrote:
How do I contact the Mod for this thread?

Depending on what you want to request or ask use the reporting function or write a mail to moderators@airliners.net.

qf2220 · Sat Nov 12, 2022 7:17 am

Interesting route for QF2 at the moment, passing north of Afghanistan and then down over the panhandle into Pakistan and India.

Fuling · Sat Nov 12, 2022 8:04 am

qf2220 wrote:
Interesting route for QF2 at the moment, passing north of Afghanistan and then down over the panhandle into Pakistan and India.

Isn't that the usual tracking?

RyanairGuru · Sat Nov 12, 2022 11:38 am

Fuling wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
Interesting route for QF2 at the moment, passing north of Afghanistan and then down over the panhandle into Pakistan and India.

Isn't that the usual tracking?

The most common route is over Iraq, UAE and Oman, although the more northerly route over Turkmenistan, Tajikistan and Pakistan* isn’t particularly unusual depending on winds/weather. It has gone that way for the past three days.

*Aircraft also fly over the extreme eastern tip of Afghanistan, but are passed directly from Dushanbe FIR to Lahore FIR.

ben175 · Sun Nov 13, 2022 3:20 am

Over the past few weeks I’ve noticed on some days the domestic leg of QF9/10 doesn’t operate with the aircraft turning around in PER. The 787 shortages must really be stretching QF thin.

qf2220 · Sun Nov 13, 2022 5:56 am

ben175 wrote:
Over the past few weeks I’ve noticed on some days the domestic leg of QF9/10 doesn’t operate with the aircraft turning around in PER. The 787 shortages must really be stretching QF thin.

Is there any info of how many pax are PER O/D post restart?

NZ516 · Sun Nov 13, 2022 6:03 pm

ben175 wrote:
Over the past few weeks I’ve noticed on some days the domestic leg of QF9/10 doesn’t operate with the aircraft turning around in PER. The 787 shortages must really be stretching QF thin.

I guess that would free up about 10-12 hours a day in the 787 operation and passengers get transferred to other domestic 737 flights.

RyanairGuru · Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:07 pm

NZ516 wrote:
ben175 wrote:
Over the past few weeks I’ve noticed on some days the domestic leg of QF9/10 doesn’t operate with the aircraft turning around in PER. The 787 shortages must really be stretching QF thin.

I guess that would free up about 10-12 hours a day in the 787 operation and passengers get transferred to other domestic 737 flights.

Considering the schedule for 787 flights ex-MEL, it actually frees up a lot more time than 10-12 hours once you account for extended downtime. It’s effectively an entire aircraft that is made available by turning QF10 to QF9 in PER.

After QF10 arrives in MEL, there are no departing flights until QF93 at 11:00 and QF9 at 16:40. Assuming that QF94 can turn for the outbound QF93, then an aircraft would be in MEL for 20 hours.

gpasternak · Sun Nov 13, 2022 11:14 pm

NZ516 wrote:
ben175 wrote:
Over the past few weeks I’ve noticed on some days the domestic leg of QF9/10 doesn’t operate with the aircraft turning around in PER. The 787 shortages must really be stretching QF thin.

I guess that would free up about 10-12 hours a day in the 787 operation and passengers get transferred to other domestic 737 flights.

That's a shame for anyone who paid for business class. 737 vs 787 up front is a tad different experience.

Boof · Sun Nov 13, 2022 11:28 pm

gpasternak wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
ben175 wrote:
Over the past few weeks I’ve noticed on some days the domestic leg of QF9/10 doesn’t operate with the aircraft turning around in PER. The 787 shortages must really be stretching QF thin.

I guess that would free up about 10-12 hours a day in the 787 operation and passengers get transferred to other domestic 737 flights.

That's a shame for anyone who paid for business class. 737 vs 787 up front is a tad different experience.

Probably explains why they are running a lot of A330’s between MEL/PER again - not only demand but closer product in J.

ZK-NBT · Mon Nov 14, 2022 12:09 am

Boof wrote:
gpasternak wrote:
NZ516 wrote:

I guess that would free up about 10-12 hours a day in the 787 operation and passengers get transferred to other domestic 737 flights.

That's a shame for anyone who paid for business class. 737 vs 787 up front is a tad different experience.

Probably explains why they are running a lot of A330’s between MEL/PER again - not only demand but closer product in J.

I think they planned ahead to turn the 789 in PER several days a week didn’t they? Pity for MEL pax who get a 738 in J but I guess anything to free up 789 capacity without interrupting the whole schedule.

Hut · Mon Nov 14, 2022 1:13 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Boof wrote:
gpasternak wrote:

That's a shame for anyone who paid for business class. 737 vs 787 up front is a tad different experience.

Probably explains why they are running a lot of A330’s between MEL/PER again - not only demand but closer product in J.

I think they planned ahead to turn the 789 in PER several days a week didn’t they? Pity for MEL pax who get a 738 in J but I guess anything to free up 789 capacity without interrupting the whole schedule.

When its planned they run an A330 which includes a PE seat map taking up the last few rows of Business... Take a look at QF779 and QF778 tomorrow, both have W, R and T available, so it works out quite well for the PE pax who get seated in business.

smi0006 · Mon Nov 14, 2022 3:48 am

Hut wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Boof wrote:

Probably explains why they are running a lot of A330’s between MEL/PER again - not only demand but closer product in J.

I think they planned ahead to turn the 789 in PER several days a week didn’t they? Pity for MEL pax who get a 738 in J but I guess anything to free up 789 capacity without interrupting the whole schedule.

When its planned they run an A330 which includes a PE seat map taking up the last few rows of Business... Take a look at QF779 and QF778 tomorrow, both have W, R and T available, so it works out quite well for the PE pax who get seated in business.

These things can’t be good for the QF brand. I’ve heard the CEO of NZ talk about focusing on brilliant basics, and operating like a Swiss watch. Although they have WAMOS, so not sure early W to Y downgrades are much better.

But seems to be a fundamental basic QF miss, and VA nail. Keeping it simple has merit. QF being run by analyst ans consultants can’t put a price on accumulative brand failures and growing complexity

tullamarine · Mon Nov 14, 2022 5:35 am

These things can’t be good for the QF brand. I’ve heard the CEO of NZ talk about focusing on brilliant basics, and operating like a Swiss watch. Although they have WAMOS, so not sure early W to Y downgrades are much better.

But seems to be a fundamental basic QF miss, and VA nail. Keeping it simple has merit. QF being run by analyst ans consultants can’t put a price on accumulative brand failures and growing complexity

It doesn't look good but I probably think it doesn't do much damage to the brand. Sadly, most people are now pretty much expecting that the service they receive from airlines is going to be ordinary and are pleasantly surprised on the occasions when they receive good service which, admittedly they all do more often than not.

We probably are following the US experience where everyone expects a crap experience when dealing with a US domestic airline. Jetstar and Tiger started this in Australia but people shrugged and kept booking. In the neverending drive to cut costs, the supposed more premium airlines (VA and QF) joined in and cut where they could. Fly on a US domestic and see where this race to the bottom gets you but, regardless, both Australian and US domestic airlines are experiencing boomtimes and it appears financial results count a lot more than customer opinion surveys when it comes to executive bonus calculations.

ZK-NBT · Mon Nov 14, 2022 5:47 am

Hut wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Boof wrote:

Probably explains why they are running a lot of A330’s between MEL/PER again - not only demand but closer product in J.

I think they planned ahead to turn the 789 in PER several days a week didn’t they? Pity for MEL pax who get a 738 in J but I guess anything to free up 789 capacity without interrupting the whole schedule.

When its planned they run an A330 which includes a PE seat map taking up the last few rows of Business... Take a look at QF779 and QF778 tomorrow, both have W, R and T available, so it works out quite well for the PE pax who get seated in business.

Right makes sense thanks.

smi0006 · Mon Nov 14, 2022 9:16 am

tullamarine wrote:
These things can’t be good for the QF brand. I’ve heard the CEO of NZ talk about focusing on brilliant basics, and operating like a Swiss watch. Although they have WAMOS, so not sure early W to Y downgrades are much better.

But seems to be a fundamental basic QF miss, and VA nail. Keeping it simple has merit. QF being run by analyst ans consultants can’t put a price on accumulative brand failures and growing complexity

It doesn't look good but I probably think it doesn't do much damage to the brand. Sadly, most people are now pretty much expecting that the service they receive from airlines is going to be ordinary and are pleasantly surprised on the occasions when they receive good service which, admittedly they all do more often than not.

We probably are following the US experience where everyone expects a crap experience when dealing with a US domestic airline. Jetstar and Tiger started this in Australia but people shrugged and kept booking. In the neverending drive to cut costs, the supposed more premium airlines (VA and QF) joined in and cut where they could. Fly on a US domestic and see where this race to the bottom gets you but, regardless, both Australian and US domestic airlines are experiencing boomtimes and it appears financial results count a lot more than customer opinion surveys when it comes to executive bonus calculations.

Yeah you are very much right. Death by thousand cuts. Which is such a shame as I truly believe we can have it all, great service, comfortable aircraft, on time - with well payed employees and very profitable airlines. I just feel it take a bit more balance and accountability in leadership.

myki · Mon Nov 14, 2022 10:43 am

Any word on the street re the return of the SCL-MEL on LA? Were yields (not the irrelevant load factor!) any good before Covid shut that route down?

qfba · Mon Nov 14, 2022 11:02 am

myki wrote:
Any word on the street re the return of the SCL-MEL on LA? Were yields (not the irrelevant load factor!) any good before Covid shut that route down?

Very soon I hear. 3 times a week

tullamarine · Tue Nov 15, 2022 3:46 am

smi0006 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
These things can’t be good for the QF brand. I’ve heard the CEO of NZ talk about focusing on brilliant basics, and operating like a Swiss watch. Although they have WAMOS, so not sure early W to Y downgrades are much better.

But seems to be a fundamental basic QF miss, and VA nail. Keeping it simple has merit. QF being run by analyst ans consultants can’t put a price on accumulative brand failures and growing complexity

It doesn't look good but I probably think it doesn't do much damage to the brand. Sadly, most people are now pretty much expecting that the service they receive from airlines is going to be ordinary and are pleasantly surprised on the occasions when they receive good service which, admittedly they all do more often than not.

We probably are following the US experience where everyone expects a crap experience when dealing with a US domestic airline. Jetstar and Tiger started this in Australia but people shrugged and kept booking. In the neverending drive to cut costs, the supposed more premium airlines (VA and QF) joined in and cut where they could. Fly on a US domestic and see where this race to the bottom gets you but, regardless, both Australian and US domestic airlines are experiencing boomtimes and it appears financial results count a lot more than customer opinion surveys when it comes to executive bonus calculations.

Yeah you are very much right. Death by thousand cuts. Which is such a shame as I truly believe we can have it all, great service, comfortable aircraft, on time - with well payed employees and very profitable airlines. I just feel it take a bit more balance and accountability in leadership.

The Australian (paywall) is reporting QF CFO Vanessa Hudson, considered to be a frontrunner to replace AJ, telling a conference in Canberra that, were she to run QF, cost control would remain all-important. Undoubtedly, this is what the finance market and the Board want to hear. For passengers, unfortunately it probably means the Jetstarisation of the mainline airline's product will continue.

smi0006 · Tue Nov 15, 2022 5:26 am

tullamarine wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:

It doesn't look good but I probably think it doesn't do much damage to the brand. Sadly, most people are now pretty much expecting that the service they receive from airlines is going to be ordinary and are pleasantly surprised on the occasions when they receive good service which, admittedly they all do more often than not.

We probably are following the US experience where everyone expects a crap experience when dealing with a US domestic airline. Jetstar and Tiger started this in Australia but people shrugged and kept booking. In the neverending drive to cut costs, the supposed more premium airlines (VA and QF) joined in and cut where they could. Fly on a US domestic and see where this race to the bottom gets you but, regardless, both Australian and US domestic airlines are experiencing boomtimes and it appears financial results count a lot more than customer opinion surveys when it comes to executive bonus calculations.

Yeah you are very much right. Death by thousand cuts. Which is such a shame as I truly believe we can have it all, great service, comfortable aircraft, on time - with well payed employees and very profitable airlines. I just feel it take a bit more balance and accountability in leadership.

The Australian (paywall) is reporting QF CFO Vanessa Hudson, considered to be a frontrunner to replace AJ, telling a conference in Canberra that, were she to run QF, cost control would remain all-important. Undoubtedly, this is what the finance market and the Board want to hear. For passengers, unfortunately it probably means the Jetstarisation of the mainline airline's product will continue.

Interesting- as someone with loose connections to QF and within the industry, the last thing they need to is to promote within. They have a little microcosm of of constant self assured overconfidence. They need a fresh face, fresh perspective and with airline experience.

getluv · Tue Nov 15, 2022 6:28 am

QF spend on consultants is quite marginal compared to companies of a similar size. They still do a lot of things internally that would be ripe for outsourcing.

I know people like to roast consultants, but if a company knew it had the capability and resources internally to manage projects/transformations it probably would do it themselves. Standing up teams or task forces isn’t easy either, as many managers are reluctant to let their best people go. And even when companies/departments do things themselves, if they have the financial resources, it would be prudent of them on getting an external advisor(s) to oversee the project so the benefits for the company can be realised.

So before everyone here continues the daily QF smack downs, VA is now owned by a consulting firm with a lot of its senior management are ex MBB. Bain will be sucking that teet long after they completely exit.

tullamarine · Tue Nov 15, 2022 7:32 am

VA is now owned by a consulting firm with a lot of its senior management are ex MBB. Bain will be sucking that teet long after they completely exit.

This has been raised before but it is incorrect. Bain and Co is the consulting firm but VA is owned by Bain Capital which is a private equity firm. To quote from their website "Bain Capital shares no management or information with Bain & Co."

TN486T · Tue Nov 15, 2022 7:35 am

What is MBB?

vhebb · Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:09 am

Anyone know what QFs plans for JNB is?

QF have long wanted to operate PER-JNB having attempted it previously and now operating 3x weekly through to March next year. They have stated that sales have been stronger than forecast. The route will end in March due to the terminal/immigration arrangements in PER.

SYD-JNB is now 787 (was 744 pre covid) this has resulted in a huge decrease in capacity. Airfares are high, load factors very strong.

Moving forward will QF look at keeping PER-JNB even if it means funding some of the requirements to make the flight operate through the QF terminal?

Would MEL-JNB with the A332 work?

Seems a shame not to capitalise on the strong market and SAA absence.

IndianicWorld · Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:53 am

vhebb wrote:
Anyone know what QFs plans for JNB is?

QF have long wanted to operate PER-JNB having attempted it previously and now operating 3x weekly through to March next year. They have stated that sales have been stronger than forecast. The route will end in March due to the terminal/immigration arrangements in PER.

SYD-JNB is now 787 (was 744 pre covid) this has resulted in a huge decrease in capacity. Airfares are high, load factors very strong.

Moving forward will QF look at keeping PER-JNB even if it means funding some of the requirements to make the flight operate through the QF terminal?

Would MEL-JNB with the A332 work?

Seems a shame not to capitalise on the strong market and SAA absence.

As much as I would love to see MEL-JNB again, it’s very unlikely.

I see QF trying to maximise its yields for some time to come. The limited PER-JNB services will be a help to at least offer more options but after those end they won’t likely be in a rush to add capacity.

tullamarine · Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:06 am

IndianicWorld wrote:
vhebb wrote:
Anyone know what QFs plans for JNB is?

QF have long wanted to operate PER-JNB having attempted it previously and now operating 3x weekly through to March next year. They have stated that sales have been stronger than forecast. The route will end in March due to the terminal/immigration arrangements in PER.

SYD-JNB is now 787 (was 744 pre covid) this has resulted in a huge decrease in capacity. Airfares are high, load factors very strong.

Moving forward will QF look at keeping PER-JNB even if it means funding some of the requirements to make the flight operate through the QF terminal?

Would MEL-JNB with the A332 work?

Seems a shame not to capitalise on the strong market and SAA absence.

As much as I would love to see MEL-JNB again, it’s very unlikely.

I see QF trying to maximise its yields for some time to come. The limited PER-JNB services will be a help to at least offer more options but after those end they won’t likely be in a rush to add capacity.

Agreed. As well as being restricted by the available fleet, QF are probably enjoying restricting the supply which has allowed them to move along the demand curve and increase yields. They are probably making more profit with the reduced seats on the 787 compared with what they used to get with the 747s.

Obzerva · Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:49 am

TN486T wrote:
What is MBB?

The 3 big main consultancy firms:
McKinsey & Company
Boston Consulting Group
Bain & Company

RyanairGuru · Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:27 pm

To be clear, Qantas could launch PER-JNB and PER-CGK without any issues or restrictions, if they were prepared to operate from Terminal 1. I personally think it is farcical that Qantas refuse to countenance that option. Jakarta would have very limited domestic feed as, other than possibly ADL, it makes more sense to flow connections over SYD. PER would be an obvious place to flow connections to JNB from the rest of the country, but the local market is so large that they have no need to do so. They can push all connections, again possibly other than ADL, over SYD and PER-JNB will fill itself on O&D. It’s completely boneheaded to cut themselves off from such a lucrative market as PER-JNB (CGK is admittedly more uncertain) because they insist on using Terminal 3. To be blunt, it smacks of the sort of misguided thinking of someone sitting in Sydney who has never been to Perth and knows nothing about it.

anstar · Tue Nov 15, 2022 1:55 pm

tullamarine wrote:

Yeah you are very much right. Death by thousand cuts. Which is such a shame as I truly believe we can have it all, great service, comfortable aircraft, on time - with well payed employees and very profitable airlines. I just feel it take a bit more balance and accountability in leadership.

\.[/quote]

Not sure what the gripe with Jetstar is but I've found their customer service online/call centre far superior to QF... in fact I'd go as far as saying if only QF had the JQ service centre it would be a huge improvement.

anstar · Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:06 pm

vhebb wrote:

SYD-JNB is now 787 (was 744 pre covid) this has resulted in a huge decrease in capacity. Airfares are high, load factors very strong.

.

In normal times airlines will want to extract as much yield as possible form their capacity before the pricing spills the demand onto other carriers. Ie now QF can fill a 787 at high prices so won't be worried of any spill as the capacity is not in the market. Ie if you want to fly to SA your options are limited so you pay more. If SAA were in the game then pricing would likely be reasonable and QF may look to increase capacity to maintain market share and not "spill" onto SAA. But with SAA out of the market QF can charge what they want with no spill.

Once China opens up and there is more AUS-China-XXX traffic then yields will normalise out of Australia once again.. until then $$$ ching ching for the airlines. How does that relate to AU>South Africa... well I am sure some pax went AU>SIN>South Africa... but as that capacity is being sucked up by EU traffic it all adds to the price pressure on capacity out of Australia.

mrkerr7474 · Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:24 pm

anstar wrote:
tullamarine wrote:

Yeah you are very much right. Death by thousand cuts. Which is such a shame as I truly believe we can have it all, great service, comfortable aircraft, on time - with well payed employees and very profitable airlines. I just feel it take a bit more balance and accountability in leadership.
\.

Not sure what the gripe with Jetstar is but I've found their customer service online/call centre far superior to QF... in fact I'd go as far as saying if only QF had the JQ service centre it would be a huge improvement.[/quote]

Couldn't agree more. Would take the JQ online/call centre over QF anyway of the week. Shame QF is getting shown up by JQ in this regard

Velocity7 · Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:25 pm

I note SQ have quietly (?) dropped the Long Haul product off SQ245/6 SIN-BNE-SIN since the 30/10 with all 3 x daily flights now having the Regional Business Class product which I find sub standard. This would also mean no PE on any of the SQ flights ex BNE. Does anyone know if this is permanent or just a temporary thing?

tullamarine · Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:38 pm

Velocity7 wrote:
I note SQ have quietly (?) dropped the Long Haul product off SQ245/6 SIN-BNE-SIN since the 30/10 with all 3 x daily flights now having the Regional Business Class product which I find sub standard. This would also mean no PE on any of the SQ flights ex BNE. Does anyone know if this is permanent or just a temporary thing?

It seems they are flexing their capacity a bit. I am booked on SQ218 in J next year and recently noticed it has changed from a regional A359 to a long-haul A359. Likewise the return flight from Europe had earlier changed from a combination of 77W and regional A359 to a A380 and 77W combination.

They have also recently announced that they are continuing to reactivate 77Ws previously slated for retirement given the ongoing delays in the arrival of the 779 fleet so it is likely changes will continue.

SQ has the largest global fleet of A350s with 61 delivered and still 4 more on order. Does anyone know if these pending deliveries are likely to be equipped as regional or long-haul birds? I have always been slightly bemused as to why SQ ordered both the regional A359 and 787-10. They seem to fulfil the same mission with very similar capacity so I never really understood why they ordered as they did.

oskarclare · Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:17 am

Velocity7 wrote:
I note SQ have quietly (?) dropped the Long Haul product off SQ245/6 SIN-BNE-SIN since the 30/10 with all 3 x daily flights now having the Regional Business Class product which I find sub standard. This would also mean no PE on any of the SQ flights ex BNE. Does anyone know if this is permanent or just a temporary thing?

Looks to be permanent at this stage showing NS23. Gives SQ an additional 76 economy seats a day into BNE which is quite significant.

BNEFlyer · Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:23 am

Velocity7 wrote:
I note SQ have quietly (?) dropped the Long Haul product off SQ245/6 SIN-BNE-SIN since the 30/10 with all 3 x daily flights now having the Regional Business Class product which I find sub standard. This would also mean no PE on any of the SQ flights ex BNE. Does anyone know if this is permanent or just a temporary thing?

I've been looking at flights to Europe for Sep/Oct 2023 and even then there's no PE from BNE, which is disappointing, and surprising.

Velocity7 · Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:57 am

oskarclare wrote:
Looks to be permanent at this stage showing NS23. Gives SQ an additional 76 economy seats a day into BNE which is quite significant.

Bugger

I've travelled with SQ out of BNE a number of times in the last 9 weeks - every one of those flights has been absolutely chockers in both Y & J and PE on the midnight departure.
The other thing I just remembered - pre pandemic, BNE was x4 daily with SQ but the ~6.00pm departure (was SQ265/6) has not returned yet

Sydscott · Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:15 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
To be clear, Qantas could launch PER-JNB and PER-CGK without any issues or restrictions, if they were prepared to operate from Terminal 1. I personally think it is farcical that Qantas refuse to countenance that option. Jakarta would have very limited domestic feed as, other than possibly ADL, it makes more sense to flow connections over SYD. PER would be an obvious place to flow connections to JNB from the rest of the country, but the local market is so large that they have no need to do so. They can push all connections, again possibly other than ADL, over SYD and PER-JNB will fill itself on O&D. It’s completely boneheaded to cut themselves off from such a lucrative market as PER-JNB (CGK is admittedly more uncertain) because they insist on using Terminal 3. To be blunt, it smacks of the sort of misguided thinking of someone sitting in Sydney who has never been to Perth and knows nothing about it.

Lets be commercial here, CGK services from PER aren't that attractive because their simply isn't the volume of business. Bali is far bigger business for airlines.

For South Africa, this article nicely summaries the biosecurity issues and frankly I don't know why QF just doesn't use a T3 departure and T1 arrival process for all of the flights. That to me makes alot more sense and makes it easy for pax to know what the process is going to be.

https://australianaviation.com.au/2022/ ... arta-axed/

To quote from the article "For the initial period after the service launches on November 1, flight QF66 from Johannesburg to Perth will arrive at T3. Those connecting to another flight will clear customs and immigration at T3, whilst those making their final arrival in Perth will be bussed to T1 for customs."

vhebb · Wed Nov 16, 2022 3:53 am

What's the chances the PER-JNB will actually end up being extended beyond March using the split arrival/departures?

evanb · Wed Nov 16, 2022 5:36 am

vhebb wrote:
Anyone know what QFs plans for JNB is?

Would MEL-JNB with the A332 work?

No. JNB is 5700 ft AMSL which would generate a large payload hit on the JNB-MEL sector given the fuel they'll have to carry for the 5,500nm journey. I'm also not sure what the QF A330-200 EDTO capacity is. It would require a very large diversion for EDTO 180 which would add significant time/distance and undermining payload even further.

freshwater · Wed Nov 16, 2022 6:09 am

anstar wrote:
vhebb wrote:

SYD-JNB is now 787 (was 744 pre covid) this has resulted in a huge decrease in capacity. Airfares are high, load factors very strong.

.

In normal times airlines will want to extract as much yield as possible form their capacity before the pricing spills the demand onto other carriers. Ie now QF can fill a 787 at high prices so won't be worried of any spill as the capacity is not in the market. Ie if you want to fly to SA your options are limited so you pay more. If SAA were in the game then pricing would likely be reasonable and QF may look to increase capacity to maintain market share and not "spill" onto SAA. But with SAA out of the market QF can charge what they want with no spill.

Once China opens up and there is more AUS-China-XXX traffic then yields will normalise out of Australia once again.. until then $$$ ching ching for the airlines. How does that relate to AU>South Africa... well I am sure some pax went AU>SIN>South Africa... but as that capacity is being sucked up by EU traffic it all adds to the price pressure on capacity out of Australia.

An excellent summary of airlines yeild management!

smi0006 · Wed Nov 16, 2022 7:01 am

vhebb wrote:
What's the chances the PER-JNB will actually end up being extended beyond March using the split arrival/departures?

Can’t wrap my head around why they just don’t tow the aircraft like they do on SYD/MEL/BNE, and use the Aspire lounge at international. Utilisation can’t be that tight….

vhebb · Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:27 am

Wouldn't need to worry about lounges. The flight could still depart from the QF terminal 3, but arrive at T1.

vhqpa · Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:43 am

Sydscott wrote:

https://australianaviation.com.au/2022/ ... will-getTo quote from the article "For the initial period after the service launches on November 1, flight QF66 from Johannesburg to Perth will arrive at T3. Those connecting to another flight will clear customs and immigration at T3, whilst those making their final arrival in Perth will be bussed to T1 for customs."

I’m trying to make sense of this, ZA is classed as high risk so T3’s customs checkpoint is inadequate, but connecting passengers still get processed through T3 then connect on a domestic flight to any point in Australia without any further bio security checks. But O&D Pax are bussed across the airfield to T1?

a320fan · Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:09 pm

vhqpa wrote:
Sydscott wrote:

https://australianaviation.com.au/2022/ ... will-getTo quote from the article "For the initial period after the service launches on November 1, flight QF66 from Johannesburg to Perth will arrive at T3. Those connecting to another flight will clear customs and immigration at T3, whilst those making their final arrival in Perth will be bussed to T1 for customs."

I’m trying to make sense of this, ZA is classed as high risk so T3’s customs checkpoint is inadequate, but connecting passengers still get processed through T3 then connect on a domestic flight to any point in Australia without any further bio security checks. But O&D Pax are bussed across the airfield to T1?

I imagine that’s just to keep the volume of pax needing processing to be kept to a minimum in T3.

pusserchef · Thu Nov 17, 2022 12:23 am

here is a clip from youtube........ I don't quite agree with the content creators methods, but it must work for him, nor do I agree with AJ's methods either. Nonetheless thought i'd share.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X_mfUQ ... sieCossack

a320fan · Thu Nov 17, 2022 1:04 am

pusserchef wrote:
here is a clip from youtube........ I don't quite agree with the content creators methods, but it must work for him, nor do I agree with AJ's methods either. Nonetheless thought i'd share.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X_mfUQ ... sieCossack

Couldn’t watch the whole thing, because the video creator was way too obnoxious to handle for even only 30 seconds. But seems Alan handled that pretty well.

ben175 · Thu Nov 17, 2022 1:23 am

a320fan wrote:
pusserchef wrote:
here is a clip from youtube........ I don't quite agree with the content creators methods, but it must work for him, nor do I agree with AJ's methods either. Nonetheless thought i'd share.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X_mfUQ ... sieCossack

Couldn’t watch the whole thing, because the video creator was way too obnoxious to handle for even only 30 seconds. But seems Alan handled that pretty well.

Completely agree. I'd probably use even worse language than Alan if I had some troglodyte harassing me like that in the middle of the street.

jrfspa320 · Thu Nov 17, 2022 1:29 am

https://australianaviation.com.au/2022/ ... n-october/

Unsurprisingly intl recovery has slowed to a trickle. I wouldn't be surprised if there is actually a decline next year as economics start to bite, Latest NAB report showed travel spend is already declining.

tullamarine · Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:40 am

jrfspa320 wrote:
https://australianaviation.com.au/2022/11/melbourne-airport-international-recovery-sluggish-in-october/

Unsurprisingly intl recovery has slowed to a trickle. I wouldn't be surprised if there is actually a decline next year as economics start to bite, Latest NAB report showed travel spend is already declining.

Inbound international tourism is slow to return but outbound and domestic tourism look to be doing very well over the Christmas/New Year period.

International airlines remain capacity constrained as they try to reactivate their fleets but there is no doubt that they could fill more planes out of Australia if they were available. I have to go to Asia in December for work. I may have to make it earlier than planned as there are basically no available seats to SIN or CGK from 12/12 onwards.

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