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JerseyFlyer
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ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sun Nov 06, 2022 8:42 am

Precision Air. Rescue ongoing, "mostly submerged"

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 18718.html
 
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airbuseric
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sun Nov 06, 2022 9:06 am

ATR 42. Either 5H-PWE or 5H-PWF judging by the pictures in this article:

https://www.capitalfm.co.ke/news/2022/11/precision-air-plunges-into-lake-victoria-with-passengers-on-board/
 
Caleo
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sun Nov 06, 2022 9:27 am

Flight 494. ATR 42-500. Reports of 49 passengers and 4 crew onboard as per ASN. Airline states more information to be published in next 2 hours.

Video:

https://twitter.com/citizentvkenya/stat ... lohHszZo3Q


Looks intact. Hopefully it submerged after everyone got out but not looking too likely atm.
 
MileHFL400
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sun Nov 06, 2022 10:12 am

Caleo wrote:
Flight 494. ATR 42-500. Reports of 49 passengers and 4 crew onboard as per ASN. Airline states more information to be published in next 2 hours.

Video:

https://twitter.com/citizentvkenya/stat ... lohHszZo3Q


Looks intact. Hopefully it submerged after everyone got out but not looking too likely atm.


Doesn’t look like they crashed too far off shore. Hopefully it’s not too deep.
 
Caleo
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sun Nov 06, 2022 10:29 am

Most reports seem to suggest 26 passengers rescued and efforts ongoing. Heavily reported as 49 passengers and 4 crew onboard.
 
Caleo
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sun Nov 06, 2022 10:29 am

Most reports seem to suggest 26 passengers rescued and efforts ongoing. Heavily reported as 49 passengers and 4 crew onboard.
 
Caleo
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sun Nov 06, 2022 11:17 am

Image
 
ZKCIF
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sun Nov 06, 2022 12:59 pm

It is the ultimate irony that the aircraft named 'Bukoba' crashes in Bukoba
 
Caleo
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sun Nov 06, 2022 1:11 pm

BBC News reporting 3 confirmed fatalities on 1 o’clock news.
 
kabq737
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sun Nov 06, 2022 1:56 pm

Caleo wrote:
Image

ATR-48? Am I missing something here?
 
Caleo
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sun Nov 06, 2022 2:25 pm




Aircraft now partly afloat. Reportedly pilots are alive but trapped inside the aircraft.
 
PlymSpotter
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sun Nov 06, 2022 2:42 pm

Hoping that casualties are few - doesn't look to have broken up

By coincidence we were supposed to be flying from Arusha to Zanzibar with Precision Air on the AT4, can't fully recall if it was late last night or this afternoon. Ended up having to push the trip back due to family commitments.
 
Caleo
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sun Nov 06, 2022 3:01 pm

Death Toll risen to 19 per BBC news :(
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sun Nov 06, 2022 3:19 pm

Caleo wrote:
Death Toll risen to 19 per BBC news :(


It also says the pilots may now be among the dead - the original article said they were trapped in the cockpit but had spoken to rescuers.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sun Nov 06, 2022 3:30 pm

Incredibly sad news, especially since the pilots were reported alive but trapped.
 
M564038
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sun Nov 06, 2022 3:47 pm

Saw one of the precision air ATRs cut in front of an already rolling Cessna Caravan on the runway on Zanzibar a few years back. Not impressive, but was otherwise an okish passenger experience. Flew on this very aircraft on that trip, actually.
 
zkncj
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sun Nov 06, 2022 4:47 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
Incredibly sad news, especially since the pilots were reported alive but trapped.


Which is interesting, as doesn’t the ATR’s have an roof escape hatch in the cockpit?
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sun Nov 06, 2022 5:24 pm

zkncj wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Incredibly sad news, especially since the pilots were reported alive but trapped.


Which is interesting, as doesn’t the ATR’s have an roof escape hatch in the cockpit?


I'm not sure actually, some quick looking at photos makes it appear it does not.
 
embraer175e2
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sun Nov 06, 2022 5:30 pm

19 reported death including 2 cabin crew
 
CanadianNorth
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sun Nov 06, 2022 5:44 pm

Sad news indeed. At least some got out, looking forward to hearing what the causes were.

zkncj wrote:
Which is interesting, as doesn’t the ATR’s have an roof escape hatch in the cockpit?

Yes they do.
 
Caleo
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sun Nov 06, 2022 5:51 pm

I suspect the weight of water prevented the cockpit door from being opened? Assume oxygen masks would’ve still worked as water rose or?
 
LTEN11
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Mon Nov 07, 2022 1:18 am

Caleo wrote:
I suspect the weight of water prevented the cockpit door from being opened? Assume oxygen masks would’ve still worked as water rose or?


In regards to the pilots, it is an assumption that they were conscious when the aircraft came to a stop. Hitting water can be like hitting concrete and until we see the the actual damage to the aircraft, we really have no idea.
 
hpff
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Mon Nov 07, 2022 11:30 am

Seems like weather was definitely a factor. https://www.thecitizen.co.tz/tanzania/n ... ge-4010536

The evacuation also seems chaotic and likely contributed to the death toll: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-63540823

Very tragic. May their souls rest in peace.
 
Blankbarcode
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Mon Nov 07, 2022 12:00 pm

hpff wrote:
Seems like weather was definitely a factor. https://www.thecitizen.co.tz/tanzania/n ... ge-4010536

The evacuation also seems chaotic and likely contributed to the death toll: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-63540823

Very tragic. May their souls rest in peace.


The fact the pilots survived the impact in a safe air pocket for a good while only to drown later is an extra sting to this entire event. RIP to all involved.
Are the ATR cockpit windows not large enough/equipped for emergency egress?
 
Noshow
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Mon Nov 07, 2022 12:25 pm

There is a cockpit rooftop escape hatch:
https://youtu.be/Aj7hOO6bDq8
 
AA737-823
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Mon Nov 07, 2022 1:37 pm

hpff wrote:
Seems like weather was definitely a factor. https://www.thecitizen.co.tz/tanzania/n ... ge-4010536

The evacuation also seems chaotic and likely contributed to the death toll: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-63540823

Very tragic. May their souls rest in peace.


From that account, it sounds like the civilian rescuers were trying to pull the cockpit escape hatch outward; a tragic mistake, as I believe it opens inward, like the Dash 8.
 
petertenthije
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Mon Nov 07, 2022 2:37 pm

LTEN11 wrote:
In regards to the pilots, it is an assumption that they were conscious when the aircraft came to a stop. Hitting water can be like hitting concrete

Even if they were conscious, they might have been stuck in the wreckage, needing to be cut out by the fire brigade. Just as happens with car crashes.
 
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IceCream
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Mon Nov 07, 2022 6:26 pm

petertenthije wrote:
LTEN11 wrote:
In regards to the pilots, it is an assumption that they were conscious when the aircraft came to a stop. Hitting water can be like hitting concrete

Even if they were conscious, they might have been stuck in the wreckage, needing to be cut out by the fire brigade. Just as happens with car crashes.

That's an extremely disturbing way to die, wow
 
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N62NA
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Tue Nov 08, 2022 1:56 am

From the "African Aviation Group" on Facebook:

Captain Rubaga, chief pilot and the pilot in command of the Precision Air #PW494 who crashed this morning. He is scheduled to retire next year. Unfortunately, he did not survive the crash with his co-pilot, first officer Peter Omondi. May they rest in peace.
 
embraer175e2
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Tue Nov 08, 2022 2:46 pm

https://fb.watch/gG96jO1fn1/

Wrekage pull out of the lake
 
Avatar2go
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Tue Nov 08, 2022 3:05 pm

The reports are very confused. Authorities on site say they were in communication with the pilots after the crash, and rescuers said they communicated with them using hand signals. Not clear what happened after that, but apparently were not able to extract them, or the forward passengers. A tragedy all around.
 
pugman211
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Tue Nov 08, 2022 3:12 pm

Looking at that wreckage extracted from the lake I could see why.

R.i.p. to those that perished
 
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Gonzalo
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Tue Nov 08, 2022 3:55 pm

The first section of the fuselage and the cockpit were completely destroyed. One year before retirement...what a sad twist of fate... R.I.P.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:01 pm

Hairy. May the dead, including brave crew members, rest peacefully.

The man who attempted to rescue the pilots gave a very brave effort, swimming multiple times to them. Huge respect.
 
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N292UX
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:31 pm

RIP to those who did not make it. It's always so sad to see these things happen.

But on the other side, massive amounts of respect to the guy who tried to save the pilots. I hope his bravery is recognized down the road.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:54 pm

embraer175e2 wrote:
https://fb.watch/gG96jO1fn1/

Wrekage pull out of the lake


pugman211 wrote:
Looking at that wreckage extracted from the lake I could see why.

R.i.p. to those that perished


Gonzalo wrote:
The first section of the fuselage and the cockpit were completely destroyed. One year before retirement...what a sad twist of fate... R.I.P.


A longer video showing the lifting out of the water is posted at https://avherald.com/h?article=500a5725&opt=1024 (scroll down to after the METARs and before the pictures)

Given it appears the aircraft was first dragged back to shore before being lifted out, I’m not sure it is safe to infer the damage to the underside that we see when the aircraft was lifted out was entirely caused by the impact, as opposed to by the aircraft dragging on the lake bed while floating nose down.

It’s hard to tell from the video, but there’s does appear to be some deformation around the flight deck escape hatch. Again that could be from the recovery potentially, but I wonder if airframe deformation from the impact may have played a role in the inability of the crew to get out.

V/F
 
pugman211
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Tue Nov 08, 2022 7:51 pm

On that AV Herald link you posted, you can clearly see the cockpit hatch is open @3:45 mark. Whether is was open at time of incident, or opened later is another question.
 
F9Animal
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Wed Nov 09, 2022 3:45 am

VirginFlyer wrote:
embraer175e2 wrote:
https://fb.watch/gG96jO1fn1/

Wrekage pull out of the lake


pugman211 wrote:
Looking at that wreckage extracted from the lake I could see why.

R.i.p. to those that perished


Gonzalo wrote:
The first section of the fuselage and the cockpit were completely destroyed. One year before retirement...what a sad twist of fate... R.I.P.


A longer video showing the lifting out of the water is posted at https://avherald.com/h?article=500a5725&opt=1024 (scroll down to after the METARs and before the pictures)

Given it appears the aircraft was first dragged back to shore before being lifted out, I’m not sure it is safe to infer the damage to the underside that we see when the aircraft was lifted out was entirely caused by the impact, as opposed to by the aircraft dragging on the lake bed while floating nose down.

It’s hard to tell from the video, but there’s does appear to be some deformation around the flight deck escape hatch. Again that could be from the recovery potentially, but I wonder if airframe deformation from the impact may have played a role in the inability of the crew to get out.

V/F


You are correct, it appears the deformation or crack is midpoint of the escape hatch. I suspect the minor fold in the fuselage in that area made getting that hatch open, nearly impossible. The hatch is clearly open after they raised it out of the water, but I suspect the hatch was cut open to remove the crew before bringing up the plane. Tragic!

Has there been any clarification if the pilots were still alive shortly after the crash? Makes me wonder if the cockpit door was unable to open due to the damage? What a tragedy.
 
F9Animal
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sat Nov 12, 2022 12:41 am

For anyone still curious about the whole pilot situation, this article crushes my heart. The rumors about the pilots being alive was real. I am going to assume the air pressure was too much to get the cockpit escape hatch open since the forward part of the plane was under water?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-63540823
 
GSPSPOT
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sat Nov 12, 2022 1:15 am

Very glad that many escaped with their lives, but so very sorry for the loss of other lives.
 
USTraveler
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sat Nov 12, 2022 1:15 am

RIP to those involved.

What do other people think that if this was a low-wing aircraft then maybe it could have floated with the fuselage above the water?
 
N766UA
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sat Nov 12, 2022 2:30 am

F9Animal wrote:
I am going to assume the air pressure was too much to get the cockpit escape hatch open since the forward part of the plane was under water?


That doesn’t make any sense. Escape hatches swing inwards; the water pressure would be greater than any residual air pressure. Should swing right open.
 
9252fly
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sat Nov 12, 2022 2:53 am

N766UA wrote:
F9Animal wrote:
I am going to assume the air pressure was too much to get the cockpit escape hatch open since the forward part of the plane was under water?


That doesn’t make any sense. Escape hatches swing inwards; the water pressure would be greater than any residual air pressure. Should swing right open.


Unless the cockpit fuselage section was damaged on impact and deformed, possibly pinching the escape hatch so that it would not open. Otherwise, yes it probably should have opened as designed. We are not onsite investigators, in due course I suspect we will know more and why.
 
beachroad
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sat Nov 12, 2022 8:10 am

9252fly wrote:
N766UA wrote:
F9Animal wrote:
I am going to assume the air pressure was too much to get the cockpit escape hatch open since the forward part of the plane was under water?


That doesn’t make any sense. Escape hatches swing inwards; the water pressure would be greater than any residual air pressure. Should swing right open.


Unless the cockpit fuselage section was damaged on impact and deformed, possibly pinching the escape hatch so that it would not open. Otherwise, yes it probably should have opened as designed. We are not onsite investigators, in due course I suspect we will know more and why.


Fuselage warping, leading to hatches or doors becoming jammed is a known issue, not especially on the ATR, but with aircraft in general.
 
F9Animal
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:31 am

N766UA wrote:
F9Animal wrote:
I am going to assume the air pressure was too much to get the cockpit escape hatch open since the forward part of the plane was under water?


That doesn’t make any sense. Escape hatches swing inwards; the water pressure would be greater than any residual air pressure. Should swing right open.


I forgot there was a crease or damage that ran up to and near the escape hatch.

I wonder if it was possible for the boaters to try and tow the airplane to shallower water? I know the "what it's" are irrelevant, but I am agonizing over the fact they couldn't rescue the pilots. I also wonder if the cockpit door was damaged. Are the doors able to be axed open, and do they have axes in the ATR-42 cockpit?
 
Heinkel
Posts: 421
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sat Nov 12, 2022 11:05 am

Looks like the rescuers made a terrible mistake.

Quote from the BBC article:

"He pointed out the cockpit emergency door to me. I swam back up and took a rope and tied it to the door and we tried to pull it with other boats, but the rope broke..."

So they pulled with a rope tied to boats on the emergency cockpit door.

From what other poster said here, the door/hatch opens inward. Fatal mistake.
 
LTEN11
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sat Nov 12, 2022 11:16 am

Heinkel wrote:
Looks like the rescuers made a terrible mistake.

Quote from the BBC article:

"He pointed out the cockpit emergency door to me. I swam back up and took a rope and tied it to the door and we tried to pull it with other boats, but the rope broke..."

So they pulled with a rope tied to boats on the emergency cockpit door.

From what other poster said here, the door/hatch opens inward. Fatal mistake.


More likely they couldn't get the door open themselves, so pointed out the hatch hoping the rescuers could get it open.
 
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par13del
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sat Nov 12, 2022 1:18 pm

So have we seen anything posted about the condition of the pilots in the cockpit other than being conscious and making hand communications? Based on the view of the damage to the lower front of the plane, were they trapped in their seats or were they moving around in the cockpit trying to break open the door, hatch, windows etc. my assumption is that they were somewhat incapacitated, just an assumption.
 
Heinkel
Posts: 421
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Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sat Nov 12, 2022 1:58 pm

par13del wrote:
So have we seen anything posted about the condition of the pilots in the cockpit other than being conscious and making hand communications? Based on the view of the damage to the lower front of the plane, were they trapped in their seats or were they moving around in the cockpit trying to break open the door, hatch, windows etc. my assumption is that they were somewhat incapacitated, just an assumption.


You should read the BBC article, posted by F9Animal in post #39:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-63540823

It says a lot about the state of the crew and the communication between them and the rescuers. At least one pilot was definitely not incapacitated.
Last edited by Heinkel on Sat Nov 12, 2022 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Heinkel
Posts: 421
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:15 pm

Re: ATR crashes into Lake Victoria

Sat Nov 12, 2022 2:11 pm

LTEN11 wrote:
Heinkel wrote:
Looks like the rescuers made a terrible mistake.

Quote from the BBC article:

"He pointed out the cockpit emergency door to me. I swam back up and took a rope and tied it to the door and we tried to pull it with other boats, but the rope broke..."

So they pulled with a rope tied to boats on the emergency cockpit door.

From what other poster said here, the door/hatch opens inward. Fatal mistake.


More likely they couldn't get the door open themselves, so pointed out the hatch hoping the rescuers could get it open.


Maybe. But in that case, the rescuers made the fatal mistake, to pull on the escape hatch with a rope. They should've pushed it inwards instead of pulling it outwards.

Possibly they damaged the hatch and flooded the cockpit, when they pulled on the hatch. The BBC article says, that there was no water leaking into the cockpit before.

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