B-17 and another aircraft involved

Video from Twitter: https://twitter.com/bnodesk/status/1591 ... 7zF1SbM1kQ

Looks like a P-51 struck it from the underside and sliced it in two. Unbelievable !

Another angle that shows collision more clearly https://twitter.com/bnodesk/status/1591 ... 7zF1SbM1kQ

JannEejit wrote:

Looks like a P-51 struck it from the underside and sliced it in two. Unbelievable !

Believe that's a P-63.

Looks to be a mid-air collision at Dallas Executive Airport of a B-17 at the Wings Over Dallas airshow.

https://twitter.com/JasonWhitely/status ... 7284574208

Video Here:

https://twitter.com/dtxdaily/status/1591522536738914305

Sad sight. RIP to all involved

More info:

https://twitter.com/JasonWhitely/status ... 7284574208

https://twitter.com/dtxdaily/status/1591522536738914305

Looks like a P-63 hit the B-17 just behind the wing and severed the B-17 fuselage. Rest in Peace to all and prayers for strength for their families.

Horrific to watch. Viewer discretion advised
https://www.instagram.com/p/Ck36tClPd07 ... MyMTA2M2Y=

My goodness, that is just awful. The P-63 came out of nowhere.

Here is the airshow website - https://wingsoverdallas.org/aircraft/

Looks like the B-17 was the "Texas Raiders" aircraft

Velocirapture wrote:

JannEejit wrote:

Looks like a P-51 struck it from the underside and sliced it in two. Unbelievable !

Believe that's a P-63.

Hard to tell on my phone screen. Other tweets suggested P-51.

This is highly disturbing. I thought WW2 was over and done... RIP to the B17 crew.

JannEejit wrote:

Velocirapture wrote:

JannEejit wrote:

Looks like a P-51 struck it from the underside and sliced it in two. Unbelievable !

Believe that's a P-63.

Hard to tell on my phone screen. Other tweets suggested P-51.

Looked like a P-63 to me based on the wing planform and the tall tail. Time will tell, of course. I know one of the P-63 pilots, so I'm hoping it wasn't him.

R.I.P. to the souls lost. This is literally the first time that I've ever heard of the P-63. But how on earth could the pilot of the smaller plane NOT see the Flying Fortress??

The B-17 crew had no idea anything was going to happen and BAM. This is awful. I wonder if the P-51 pilot had a medical event. RIP to all on board.

The investigation will have to look at the show plan, what the P-63 was attempting; look at the view out of the P-63 cockpit; experience levels. Every mid-air is a complex event and at some point becomes inevitable as the trajectory cannot be changed enough to avoid contact, esp at high speed like this looks. I can’t tell if the P-63 is trying to join in formation or just didn’t see the B-17.

I looked at the video linked above. The P-63 looks to be flying in loose formation with another plane, probably the P-51 posters mention. In that case, the P-63 wouldn’t be focused on the B-17, but on his lead in the P-51. Never saw the B-17 and wouldn’t be expected to as lead has the responsibility for collision avoidance. That said, at show, every pilot needs to be looking around, know the plan, where other planes are expected to be.

The videos that I've seen suggest the B-17 was flying level and possibly runway heading. The P-63 looks to be turning left final for same runway etc.
RIP to those who passed.

Also, the two fighters appear to be in a left turn so some bank angle. A collision course means no relative motion making spotting the B-17 harder or possibly stationary behind the canopy bow.

The formation was at high speed overtaking the bomber, not on final.

ranold76 wrote:

The videos that I've seen suggest the B-17 was flying level and possibly runway heading. The P-63 looks to be turning left final for same runway etc.
RIP to those who passed.

No, this is not how one turns onto final.

There’s another Twitter video showing a different angle and the P-63 was at about 45-60 degrees of bank, belly up to the B-17

That collision may have occurred above people. That tells me this was not part of attempting to execute a show maneuver.

Airplanebrain wrote:

Here is the airshow website - https://wingsoverdallas.org/aircraft/

Looks like the B-17 was the "Texas Raiders" aircraft

I am almost 100% sure it was N7227C "Texas Raiders", they left CXO yesterday morning and flew around the west side of Houston before turning back to the north and heading up there.

So so sad and to think I was fortunate enough to have gotten a ride on her one day few weeks before "The Wings Over Houston Air Show" at EFD about 15 or so years back.

From the video angle, the P-63 was in a banking turn with the B-17 coming into his view from under his nose. He probably didn't see it until the last second. Fighters cannot see what's below their line of sight, along their nose.

USTraveler wrote:

ranold76 wrote:

The videos that I've seen suggest the B-17 was flying level and possibly runway heading. The P-63 looks to be turning left final for same runway etc.
RIP to those who passed.

No, this is not how one turns onto final.

https://twitter.com/DavidSFOX4/status/1 ... 3376211968
I understand that, but that B-17 looks to be flying pretty much level towards the airfield, while those three smaller craft are coming in fast and banking left towards the same path over the airfield.

https://twitter.com/eortiz/status/15915 ... 2VJdzZ8VMA

View from the other direction. Looks like there were three smaller planes zooming along, and the last of the three collided with the B-17.

Also, this was really close to happening above people.

Tragic and really sad. I have to say I am one for a ban on close formation aircraft at airshows. It's not necessary to get the exhilaration aircraft passing by on their own can and will achieve. Looks like the smaller plane just lost site of the B-17, possibly focusing on the other smaller aircraft that flew by first that did seem to maintain adequate distance from the larger craft. These mishaps are memorable. It's why I do not attend. RIP.

TYWoolman wrote:

Tragic and really sad. I have to say I am one for a ban on close formation aircraft at airshows. It's not necessary to get the exhilaration aircraft passing by on their own can and will achieve. Looks like the smaller plane just lost site of the B-17, possibly focusing on the other smaller aircraft that flew by first that did seem to maintain adequate distance from the larger craft. These mishaps are memorable. It's why I do not attend. RIP.

I beg to differ with you.

Holy shit wtf!!! The last time I got this kinda feeling was when I saw that National Cargo 747 crash video. Absolutely insane and brutally chilling to see.

USTraveler wrote:

TYWoolman wrote:

Tragic and really sad. I have to say I am one for a ban on close formation aircraft at airshows. It's not necessary to get the exhilaration aircraft passing by on their own can and will achieve. Looks like the smaller plane just lost site of the B-17, possibly focusing on the other smaller aircraft that flew by first that did seem to maintain adequate distance from the larger craft. These mishaps are memorable. It's why I do not attend. RIP.

I beg to differ with you.

Care to expound?

There were a lot of planes behind these two.

https://twitter.com/arnau99999/status/1 ... 2kE_8I2hFQ

They imagine there will be a LOT of footage.

Why everyone has a hood?

Oh Christ, that is really really awful

This has unnerved me a bit - I really wanted to fly the B17 this year, having just visited the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum where I flew the Catalina, I figured I had time for a quick last minute trip to Dallas. I already had time booked off for a 2 week trip to Tanazania that we had to cancel (due to selling the family home) - incidentally flying a Precision Air ATR on the same day of their crash, two sectors after the incident. I don't recall the B-17 flight that had open seats, but it was one on the Saturday that I was going to take with Commemorative Air Force - I think 12:00. I canned the plan due to family stuff and the house move needing all of my time off. Things had better not happen in threes...

My condolences to everyone who lost a loved one or witnessed this

Another view : https://twitter.com/arnau99999/status/1 ... 2785796097

Kikko19 wrote:

Why everyone has a hood?

Likely because it's not warm. Current temperature is 11 Celcius / 52 degree Fahrenheit.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

The investigation will have to look at the show plan, what the P-63 was attempting; look at the view out of the P-63 cockpit; experience levels. Every mid-air is a complex event and at some point becomes inevitable as the trajectory cannot be changed enough to avoid contact, esp at high speed like this looks. I can’t tell if the P-63 is trying to join in formation or just didn’t see the B-17.

I looked at the video linked above. The P-63 looks to be flying in loose formation with another plane, probably the P-51 posters mention. In that case, the P-63 wouldn’t be focused on the B-17, but on his lead in the P-51. Never saw the B-17 and wouldn’t be expected to as lead has the responsibility for collision avoidance. That said, at show, every pilot needs to be looking around, know the plan, where other planes are expected to be.

Someone was out of the box….

I know a lot of IAC people, and have done some formation trying and flying myself.

It would be entirely possible that he was focused on the plane he was supposed to following, and never even saw the B-17…

https://www.fox4news.com/news/dallas-ex ... port-crash

No word on any ground casualties yet. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Per the article, the FAA stated that the two planes were a B-17 (obviously) and a P63.

Avatar2go wrote:

From the video angle, the P-63 was in a banking turn with the B-17 coming into his view from under his nose. He probably didn't see it until the last second. Fighters cannot see what's below their line of sight, along their nose.

Viewing the video posted by DLX with the folks in the parking lot, I agree with this tragic theory. Watching the angle of the P-63 approaching, he had no idea he was that close to the B-17 until it was to late.

Were the B17 and the fighters supposed to be flying in formation.

In the air shows that I have seen that only happens with the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight.

They are a team that includes both a bomber and fighters.

I can't recall seeing his done where the bomber and fighters are not part of the same team.

tenHangar wrote:

Another view : https://twitter.com/arnau99999/status/1 ... 2785796097

Different angle here, but this now raises more confusion with me versus my previous post.

Almost like a suicide attack in WW2. Horrific.

I have some reservations about ait Shows although I did attend some. But Ramstein is very present in Germany and Our minds.

USTraveler wrote:

TYWoolman wrote:

Tragic and really sad. I have to say I am one for a ban on close formation aircraft at airshows. It's not necessary to get the exhilaration aircraft passing by on their own can and will achieve. Looks like the smaller plane just lost site of the B-17, possibly focusing on the other smaller aircraft that flew by first that did seem to maintain adequate distance from the larger craft. These mishaps are memorable. It's why I do not attend. RIP.

I beg to differ with you.

I think he has a point and if too many more of these crashes happen we might see only very careful fly-pasts with planes far apart from each other.

As it is now, we have dead people and two classic planes lost. The P63 just seemed to be blasting straight in towards the B17. Very odd.

Ramstein disaster mentioned before is this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramstein_ ... w_disaster

I no longer attend airshows - they don't really interest me anymore.

Velocirapture wrote:

Kikko19 wrote:

Why everyone has a hood?

Likely because it's not warm. Current temperature is 11 Celcius / 52 degree Fahrenheit.

Windchills in DFW were in the 30's this morning. Main reason I passed on the airshow today.

Winds have pretty stiff all day long. Makes me wonder what affect that might have had on the collision?

Another reason to outlaw warbird flying. Weekend warriors who think they are real fighter pilots. They have the money but not the skill.

USTraveler wrote:

This is highly disturbing. I thought WW2 was over and done... RIP to the B17 crew.

This is heartbreaking. And I agree, been a long time since a B17 was taken out violently. No one wanted this to happen. RIP to everyone. Fact is, these activities are not the safest thing to do. Glorious but not all that safe.

That was the only airworthy P 63. This is one of the most documented mid air collisions we have. A TV station showed there is almost nothing left of either aircraft. Condolences to the crews and families. Nothing worthy of doing is without some risks.

Jesus some of these comments…

It looks to be a parade of warbirds, they were turning inbound on the show course and the P-63 lost sight of the B-17 below and to his right as he made a left turn.

Very sad and tragic.

CoThG wrote:

Another reason to outlaw warbird flying. Weekend warriors who think they are real fighter pilots. They have the money but not the skill.

Do you know the pilots who were involved? How do you know if the P-63 pilot was or was not a fighter pilot?

If the P-63 pilot was who I believe it was, he was a very experienced pilot who'd been flying this and other warbirds for years and was a senior airline captain and check airman. IOW, hardly an amateur.

How many B-17's are left flying these days?

propmusic wrote:

That was the only airworthy P 63. This is one of the most documented mid air collisions we have. A TV station showed there is almost nothing left of either aircraft. Condolences to the crews and families. Nothing worthy of doing is without some risks.

Incorrect - NOT the only airworthy P-63. The Palm Springs Air Museum also has an airworthy one: https://palmspringsairmuseum.org/visit/aircraft/