CVG New Service Announcement 11/16

DeltaRules · Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:17 am

Cincinnati Business Journal is indicating CVG will have an announcement tomorrow at Noon for a new entrant. The article is paywalled but seems to hope it's BA.

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/ ... rline.html

Any rumblings beyond the Ohio thread?

CVGspottekass · Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:33 am

I could definitely see British Airways announcing LHR service since they have a slot that can be filled and they plan on adding a U.S route. Virgin Atlantic also plans to add some new USA markets so that could be a possibility as well.

flyguy89 · Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:39 am

VS is an interesting thought. 4x weekly weekly service to LHR could nicely complement DL’s 3x weekly CVG-CDG service to give SkyTeam a daily TATL presence at CVG again.

FLYKTPA · Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:42 am

How would Virgin fill a flight off of almost entirely local passengers? Not much to connect to on both ends. BA at least has a large European and international network ex LHR.

trexel94 · Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:51 am

It could always be NK, B6 or even Avelo.

N292UX · Wed Nov 16, 2022 3:05 am

At this point BA seems like the one of more plausible candidates, though NK, B6, and Avelo also doesn't serve CVG yet so it could very well be them as well.

SeaDoo · Wed Nov 16, 2022 3:07 am

Unfortunately for those in the Cincinnati area, I am guessing no new TATL. For those there, I hope I am wrong.

usdcaguy · Wed Nov 16, 2022 3:20 am

trexel94 wrote:
It could always be NK, B6 or even Avelo.

Though it's a hole in their network, I don't see B6 starting a new city right now. NK is more likely to start CVG-FLL or CVG-BWI. I'm not sure where Avelo would fit in.

Midwestindy · Wed Nov 16, 2022 3:36 am

https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/15 ... 4Ek7Oix8bA

izbtmnhd · Wed Nov 16, 2022 3:51 am

If it is BA, that’s quite a blow for CMH getting TATL in the medium term with BA at PIT/CVG and EI at CLE.

SkyVoice · Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:19 am

Well, American has boldly stated that "We will be a force to be reckoned with in Cincinnati." Adding BA service from CVG to LHR would be a bold stroke for CVG, AA and One World. It would be like the Reds signing Aaron Judge to a big free agent contract.*

*That ain't happening. But BA to CVG just might! We shall see . . . .

DeltaRules · Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:22 am

Isn't it a bit late for TATL announcements? Those seem to be Sept-Oct reveals for the next Summer.

izbtmnhd wrote:
If it is BA, that’s quite a blow for CMH getting TATL in the medium term with BA at PIT/CVG and EI at CLE.

It'd be a blow for both CMH, but perhaps bigger for IND, which was explicitly named at one point as on BA's radar.

strangeplanes · Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:40 am

How quickly does Delta drop the route after BA announces? That 767-400 would be much better used on competition-free Kansas City or Indianapolis.

Jshank83 · Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:40 am

DeltaRules wrote:
Isn't it a bit late for TATL announcements? Those seem to be Sept-Oct reveals for the next Summer.

izbtmnhd wrote:
If it is BA, that’s quite a blow for CMH getting TATL in the medium term with BA at PIT/CVG and EI at CLE.

It'd be a blow for both CMH, but perhaps bigger for IND, which was explicitly named at one point as on BA's radar.

STL-FRA was announced in December. Although, I think it was pushed from its original announcement date. I think November is still on the tail end of when we see them.

zackary747 · Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:45 am

DeltaRules wrote:
Isn't it a bit late for TATL announcements? Those seem to be Sept-Oct reveals for the next Summer.

izbtmnhd wrote:
If it is BA, that’s quite a blow for CMH getting TATL in the medium term with BA at PIT/CVG and EI at CLE.

It'd be a blow for both CMH, but perhaps bigger for IND, which was explicitly named at one point as on BA's radar.

As an IND traveler, I will be furious if CVG were to get BA before IND. The MCI people should be furious as well.

strangeplanes · Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:47 am

zackary747 wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
Isn't it a bit late for TATL announcements? Those seem to be Sept-Oct reveals for the next Summer.

izbtmnhd wrote:
If it is BA, that’s quite a blow for CMH getting TATL in the medium term with BA at PIT/CVG and EI at CLE.

It'd be a blow for both CMH, but perhaps bigger for IND, which was explicitly named at one point as on BA's radar.

As an IND traveler, I will be furious if CVG were to get BA before IND. The MCI people should be furious as well.

It should open a DL 767 for MCI or IND

ANA787 · Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:49 am

If it’s BA, DL will bolt from CVG-CDG.

DeltaRules · Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:52 am

ANA787 wrote:
If it’s BA, DL will bolt from CVG-CDG.

Shades of PIT after BA came to town.

flyguy89 · Wed Nov 16, 2022 5:04 am

DeltaRules wrote:
ANA787 wrote:
If it’s BA, DL will bolt from CVG-CDG.

Shades of PIT after BA came to town.

I wouldn’t really say that’s analogous. DL has been successfully flying CVG-CDG for almost 30 years now, and without revenue guarantees to boot. It’d be semi-surprising if they folded that quickly.

a320flyer · Wed Nov 16, 2022 5:20 am

DeltaRules wrote:
ANA787 wrote:
If it’s BA, DL will bolt from CVG-CDG.

Shades of PIT after BA came to town.

strangeplanes wrote:
How quickly does Delta drop the route after BA announces? That 767-400 would be much better used on competition-free Kansas City or Indianapolis.

DL made no response to WW flying CVG-KEF, I don’t see them making much, if any, reaction to a possible entrance by BA. CDG overflies LHR, so only onward connections will compete against each other. DL is still firmly entrenched in the CVG market, definitely smaller than they were before COVID, but that’s mostly due to the CRJs, mainline is practically identical.

SkyTeam has much more presence than OneWorld at CVG. Even with the RDU add, AA lags behind in its service at CVG compared to IND/CMH. It would be a bold move, but there’s not reason they couldn’t coexist.

trexel94 · Wed Nov 16, 2022 5:42 am

zackary747 wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
Isn't it a bit late for TATL announcements? Those seem to be Sept-Oct reveals for the next Summer.

izbtmnhd wrote:
If it is BA, that’s quite a blow for CMH getting TATL in the medium term with BA at PIT/CVG and EI at CLE.

It'd be a blow for both CMH, but perhaps bigger for IND, which was explicitly named at one point as on BA's radar.

As an IND traveler, I will be furious if CVG were to get BA before IND. The MCI people should be furious as well.

We're already b*tching in KC. IND and MCI are about to learn a valuable lesson. Incentives only go so far, there are only so many cities that make sense to add, airlines prefer proven markets and we're reaching the bottom of the barrel in terms of airlines adding new long haul routes. Where's the cutoff?

I feel like the window is closing on these two cities. BA was likely their best hope. DL seems to have lost interest in point-to-point routes, Aer Lingus/Icelandair are too small, Condor is giving up on mid-sized markets and LH is too good for them. Both offer new terminals, good PDEW, an incentives slush fund and still no bites. Pity

Jshank83 · Wed Nov 16, 2022 6:28 am

trexel94 wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
Isn't it a bit late for TATL announcements? Those seem to be Sept-Oct reveals for the next Summer.

It'd be a blow for both CMH, but perhaps bigger for IND, which was explicitly named at one point as on BA's radar.

As an IND traveler, I will be furious if CVG were to get BA before IND. The MCI people should be furious as well.

We're already b*tching in KC. IND and MCI are about to learn a valuable lesson. Incentives only go so far, there are only so many cities that make sense to add, airlines prefer proven markets and we're reaching the bottom of the barrel in terms of airlines adding new long haul routes. Where's the cutoff?

I feel like the window is closing on these two cities. BA was likely their best hope. DL seems to have lost interest in point-to-point routes, Aer Lingus/Icelandair are too small, Condor is giving up on mid-sized markets and LH is too good for them. Both offer new terminals, good PDEW, an incentives slush fund and still no bites. Pity

Not sure how you think incentives only go so far. They basically have been the reason any airport jumps the line to get the flight they want. If there is a pool of somewhat like airports, whoever pays the most gets the flight. I’m sure it will be the same with this one once we see what the offer ends up being

Midwestindy · Wed Nov 16, 2022 6:29 am

trexel94 wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
Isn't it a bit late for TATL announcements? Those seem to be Sept-Oct reveals for the next Summer.

It'd be a blow for both CMH, but perhaps bigger for IND, which was explicitly named at one point as on BA's radar.

As an IND traveler, I will be furious if CVG were to get BA before IND. The MCI people should be furious as well.

We're already b*tching in KC. IND and MCI are about to learn a valuable lesson. Incentives only go so far, there are only so many cities that make sense to add, airlines prefer proven markets and we're reaching the bottom of the barrel in terms of airlines adding new long haul routes. Where's the cutoff?

I feel like the window is closing on these two cities. BA was likely their best hope. DL seems to have lost interest in point-to-point routes, Aer Lingus/Icelandair are too small, Condor is giving up on mid-sized markets and LH is too good for them. Both offer new terminals, good PDEW, an incentives slush fund and still no bites. Pity

Lets pump the breaks there, flight hasn’t even been announced

Midwestindy · Wed Nov 16, 2022 6:30 am

a320flyer wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
ANA787 wrote:
If it’s BA, DL will bolt from CVG-CDG.

Shades of PIT after BA came to town.

strangeplanes wrote:
How quickly does Delta drop the route after BA announces? That 767-400 would be much better used on competition-free Kansas City or Indianapolis.

DL made no response to WW flying CVG-KEF, I don’t see them making much, if any, reaction to a possible entrance by BA. CDG overflies LHR, so only onward connections will compete against each other. DL is still firmly entrenched in the CVG market, definitely smaller than they were before COVID, but that’s mostly due to the CRJs, mainline is practically identical.

SkyTeam has much more presence than OneWorld at CVG. Even with the RDU add, AA lags behind in its service at CVG compared to IND/CMH. It would be a bold move, but there’s not reason they couldn’t coexist.

WW and BA are not comps, so DL wouldn’t respond from CVG

BangersAndMash · Wed Nov 16, 2022 7:40 am

The way everybody is getting so worked up, it would be rather funny if it was Avelo. Nothing wrong with them, but it would be quite the anti-climax! :lol:

ibthebigd · Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:24 am

Wouldn't A Transatlantic announcement be earlier in the day like 9 AM

Noon seams like a weird time.

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RDRogel · Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:00 pm

Why not an Asian airline(like CX) can fly to CVG?

LAXdude1023 · Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:02 pm

RDRogel wrote:
Why not an Asian airline(like CX) can fly to CVG?

The market couldn’t fill an ERJ.

Indy · Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:13 pm

Do the colors in the New Route graphic have any significance? Or are they just random colors? I see the yellow and blue and think Lufthansa.

Edit: Disregard the color comment. I see the Tweet and it is an animation of colors.

777Mech · Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:55 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
ANA787 wrote:
If it’s BA, DL will bolt from CVG-CDG.

Shades of PIT after BA came to town.

That route was subsidized, and once they gave the subsides to BA, DL split. This is a totally different situation.

pmanni1 · Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:53 pm

Isn't Cincinnati the largest metro that does not have NK?

Flaps · Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:55 pm

777Mech wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
ANA787 wrote:
If it’s BA, DL will bolt from CVG-CDG.

Shades of PIT after BA came to town.

That route was subsidized, and once they gave the subsides to BA, DL split. This is a totally different situation.

PIT-CDG was self-sustaining long before BA came to town. I absolutely expect DL to drop CVG-CDG if BA comes to CVG.

av8orwalk · Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:02 pm

Could this have been a typo and was actually the Paris (CDG) announcement by JetBlue?

BA744PHX · Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:05 pm

av8orwalk wrote:
Could this have been a typo and was actually the Paris (CDG) announcement by JetBlue?

The article is very specific stating CVG has a route announcement

777Mech · Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:37 pm

Flaps wrote:
777Mech wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:

Shades of PIT after BA came to town.

That route was subsidized, and once they gave the subsides to BA, DL split. This is a totally different situation.

PIT-CDG was self-sustaining long before BA came to town. I absolutely expect DL to drop CVG-CDG if BA comes to CVG.

Once the subsidy ran out it was reduced to summer seasonal, and then the airport authority gave a subsidy for BA to come in, and that's when they pulled the plug totally.

CVGspottekass · Wed Nov 16, 2022 3:27 pm

777Mech wrote:
Flaps wrote:
777Mech wrote:

That route was subsidized, and once they gave the subsides to BA, DL split. This is a totally different situation.

PIT-CDG was self-sustaining long before BA came to town. I absolutely expect DL to drop CVG-CDG if BA comes to CVG.

Once the subsidy ran out it was reduced to summer seasonal, and then the airport authority gave a subsidy for BA to come in, and that's when they pulled the plug totally.

Pittsburgh’s Paris flight didn't preform as well as Cincinnati’s though to start with.

SLCaviation · Wed Nov 16, 2022 3:29 pm

Im 90% sure the route is LHR on BA and 100% sure DL will drop CDG

FlyingElvii · Wed Nov 16, 2022 3:31 pm

CVGspottekass wrote:
777Mech wrote:
Flaps wrote:

PIT-CDG was self-sustaining long before BA came to town. I absolutely expect DL to drop CVG-CDG if BA comes to CVG.

Once the subsidy ran out it was reduced to summer seasonal, and then the airport authority gave a subsidy for BA to come in, and that's when they pulled the plug totally.

Pittsburgh’s Paris flight didn't preform as well as Cincinnati’s though to start with.

CVG has a biz connection to France. Proctor and Gamble used to fill 50% or more of that plane.

AntonioMartin · Wed Nov 16, 2022 3:40 pm

I'd bet Avelo, British or Spirit...

AirForceAM · Wed Nov 16, 2022 3:49 pm

It’s BA service to LHR, starting 5-June on 787. It’ll be 5x/week in summer and 4x/week in winter. The announcement event will be live-streamed on Facebook in about an hour from now.

UDFlyer77 · Wed Nov 16, 2022 3:58 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
CVGspottekass wrote:
777Mech wrote:

CVG has a biz connection to France. Proctor and Gamble used to fill 50% or more of that plane.

I also thought the CVG-CDG flight is said to carry a good deal of cargo for GE with their joint venture with Snecma (Safran) for the CFM56 engine.

BA744PHX · Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:10 pm

AirForceAM wrote:
It’s BA service to LHR, starting 5-June on 787. It’ll be 5x/week in summer and 4x/week in winter. The announcement event will be live-streamed on Facebook in about an hour from now.

Congrats to CVG!

N292UX · Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:12 pm

SLCaviation wrote:
Im 90% sure the route is LHR on BA and 100% sure DL will drop CDG

DL has a bunch of corporate contracts on the CDG flight and the pax payload may not be the most important part of the plane - often is what is being carried underneath in the cargo hold.

Not to mention they just upgauged the route to a 764.

SLCaviation · Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:13 pm

N292UX wrote:
SLCaviation wrote:
Im 90% sure the route is LHR on BA and 100% sure DL will drop CDG

DL has a bunch of corporate contracts on the CDG flight and the pax payload may not be the most important part of the plane - often is what is being carried underneath in the cargo hold.

Not to mention they just upgauged the route to a 764.

That was all before BA… now everything is different

Murdoughnut · Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:17 pm

RDRogel wrote:
Why not an Asian airline(like CX) can fly to CVG?

There's about enough Asian demand from the U.S. to fill up one airplane a day - for the entire country (and theirs).

Midwestindy · Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:22 pm

AirForceAM wrote:
It’s BA service to LHR, starting 5-June on 787. It’ll be 5x/week in summer and 4x/week in winter. The announcement event will be live-streamed on Facebook in about an hour from now.

https://twitter.com/tofly_totravel/stat ... ZjPl52mtsA

AdEd · Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:24 pm

SLCaviation wrote:
N292UX wrote:
SLCaviation wrote:
Im 90% sure the route is LHR on BA and 100% sure DL will drop CDG

DL has a bunch of corporate contracts on the CDG flight and the pax payload may not be the most important part of the plane - often is what is being carried underneath in the cargo hold.

Not to mention they just upgauged the route to a 764.

That was all before BA… now everything is different

Please include actual substance in your posts. How is "everything" now "different"?

IceCream · Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:33 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
Isn't it a bit late for TATL announcements? Those seem to be Sept-Oct reveals for the next Summer.

izbtmnhd wrote:
If it is BA, that’s quite a blow for CMH getting TATL in the medium term with BA at PIT/CVG and EI at CLE.

It'd be a blow for both CMH, but perhaps bigger for IND, which was explicitly named at one point as on BA's radar.

It was only a couple weeks ago AM announced FCO, and WS in Canada still haven't made any changes to their S23 schedule yet. So definitely still possible.

PSU.DTW.SCE · Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:34 pm

I don't get the assertion that DL is now suddenly going to pack-up and abandon the CVG-CDG route simply because a new competitor, with BA is starting CVG-LHR.
A.net tends to overreact that all the sudden a new competitor is going to waltz and suddenly steal all the marketshare.

Could DL drop CVG-CDG at some point? Sure anything is possible.
However DL still has a portfolio of non-hub routes out of CVG and still has a share of loyalty in the market.

The BA CVG-LHR route is competing to pull traffic that is connecting to LHR over other hubs.
There is traffic on AA connecting over ORD, PHL, JFK, CLT.
Not to mention UA and DL traffic connecting over their hubs.

There is enough onward TATL / European demand from the CVG region to support both flights.

WA707atMSP · Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:40 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
I don't get the assertion that DL is now suddenly going to pack-up and abandon the CVG-CDG route simply because a new competitor, with BA is starting CVG-LHR.
A.net tends to overreact that all the sudden a new competitor is going to waltz and suddenly steal all the marketshare.

Could DL drop CVG-CDG at some point? Sure anything is possible.
However DL still has a portfolio of non-hub routes out of CVG and still has a share of loyalty in the market.

The BA CVG-LHR route is competing to pull traffic that is connecting to LHR over other hubs.
There is traffic on AA connecting over ORD, PHL, JFK, CLT.
Not to mention UA and DL traffic connecting over their hubs.

There is enough onward TATL / European demand from the CVG region to support both flights.

In many ways, the comments on this thread mirror what we saw on ANet when DL added RDU-CDG. Many people felt that, because AA no longer had a hub in RDU, DL would take all the transatlantic traffic from AA, and AA would drop RDU-LHR.

DL's and AA's transatlantic flights have coexisted at RDU for several years, and I think that's what we'll see at CVG, too.

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