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schernov
Posts: 135
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:41 pm

Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:36 pm

Here is another one.
Say you are going from US to EU with a connection in EU. And your first leg is late so you KNOW you are missing the connection.
US based carrier gate agent will rebook/reroute you right there before you depart. EU airline will tell you that it will get handled by transfer desk as they don't want to deal with it or don't have system rights to do it.
 
flyguy89
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Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:02 am

I will say the “tech” on US carriers is one of the starkest areas of distinction to me. Websites, apps, self check-in kiosks, mobile boarding passes…so much more developed and smooth in the US. Lack of PTVs and inflight Wi-Fi in Europe is less surprising however given the short stage lengths for most of their intra-Europe flying compared to longer domestic flying in the US.
 
USTraveler
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:37 am

Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:16 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Funny, I’ve received sat comms on weather, flight plan info overwater, even over that area. A dispatcher could have communicated with AF 447 by satellite link. Radar coverage had nothing to do with communication by dispatcher, if there were one.


Not to sound too emotional, but I would never fly AF, or put my family on them. Way too many "little" mistakes turn into a disaster. And how would you feel having a 19 year-old (who statistically have high rates of auto crashes) as the airman on watch while you're flying transatlantic?
 
USTraveler
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:37 am

Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:36 am

There's a reason why they're called "(Air Chance)"

After all the previous incidences, it's a shame that their operating license hasn't been revoked. Very weird...
 
spantax
Posts: 328
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 4:44 pm

Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:14 pm

Another one (a little/lot off-topic....):
Most big European airports are reachable by bicycle and foot (and, of course, all the small ones). In the US I can't tell for sure (correct me if I am wrong) but my impression it that this is not the case. For instance, MIA airport is totally surrounded by motorways; there is no way to get by foot. Even if you are lodging at a very close hotel you have to take a shuttle or taxi.
Regards,
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 10297
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:53 pm

USTraveler wrote:
There's a reason why they're called "(Air Chance)"

After all the previous incidences, it's a shame that their operating license hasn't been revoked. Very weird...



I’ve flown them several times, yes, their record is not as great as other carriers and been subject to BEA recommendations. That said, I’d fly them again. The odds are very long that any flight will have an accident; far more likely to die driving to the airport.
 
bennett123
Posts: 11649
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:39 pm

spantax wrote:
Another one (a little/lot off-topic....):
Most big European airports are reachable by bicycle and foot (and, of course, all the small ones). In the US I can't tell for sure (correct me if I am wrong) but my impression it that this is not the case. For instance, MIA airport is totally surrounded by motorways; there is no way to get by foot. Even if you are lodging at a very close hotel you have to take a shuttle or taxi.
Regards,


Don't think you can walk to London Heathrow.

Also you can't walk to Bournemouth Airport.
 
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Phosphorus
Posts: 2072
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Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:52 pm

schernov wrote:
Is bag check at the gate and getting them back inside a jetway a thing outside of US? Aka valet check on small regional planes? I have not seen it

I experienced that, back in 90's, when flying Air Littoral in France, on an Air France ticket.
The plane was CRJ-200, not a single free seat, all passengers wore suits and ties. Each had mainline-sized carry-on.
AFAIR, we were boarding from a bus, so it wasn't even a gate check, but rather stairs-check.

Something similar happened to me around 20 years ago, when flying Lufhansa CityLine, between someplace in Italy and someplace in Germany (not an LH hub in any way, a spoke-to-spoke flight).

Also, I noticed airlines in Europe routinely gate-checking baby strollers. There's a dimensions and weight limit to them, and then you may take them all the way to the gate, with appropriate tag/label. You surrender them at aircraft door.
 
johns624
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Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:55 pm

You don't have to thread your way through duty free shops that cover the whole concourse in the US.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:04 pm

johns624 wrote:
You don't have to thread your way through duty free shops that cover the whole concourse in the US.


Shopping at airports always amazed and baffled me. I don’t want to be carrying around purchases; I have what I need which is why I pack and check a bag; and a lot of it is available in a city for less money. I mean do people really get thru security half-dressed, stop at the Brooks Brothers to buy a suit, then remember luggage is a great idea, so swing thru Tumi for a roll aboard, finish up with some perfume and bottle of JW Blue. I never understood.

I can honestly say, never bought anything but a charger cord at an airport.
 
JibberJim
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Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:33 pm

Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:14 am

bennett123 wrote:
Don't think you can walk to London Heathrow.


Pretty sure you can still walk to 4 and 5, I don't think there's been any changes since I have, (and then presumably connect to the middle if necessary), and I'm guessing the same cycle hub transfer for whilst the tunnel is being worked on can be used by pedestrians?

I don't actually know if the new tunnel to the common travel bit will be cycle only, or if pedestrians will be allowed?
 
jomur
Posts: 477
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Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:30 am

Cubsrule wrote:
B727skyguy wrote:
NW outsourced all except 40 of its largest stations in the mid-2000s.


How many European carriers have their own staff at more than, say, 20 stations?


Jet2 does. They have thier own staff at all of the airports that they fly regularly to amd even when they fly to other airports on adhoc basis there is usually some ground staff employed by the company there as well, whether that be travelling on the same flight or not.
 
bennett123
Posts: 11649
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:35 am

JibberJim wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Don't think you can walk to London Heathrow.


Pretty sure you can still walk to 4 and 5, I don't think there's been any changes since I have, (and then presumably connect to the middle if necessary), and I'm guessing the same cycle hub transfer for whilst the tunnel is being worked on can be used by pedestrians?

I don't actually know if the new tunnel to the common travel bit will be cycle only, or if pedestrians will be allowed?


Not sure.

I know there is a tunnel from the A4 which used to a walkway.

I thought it was now closed to the public.
 
Jomar777
Posts: 756
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:45 am

Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:53 am

From my side (some might have already been mentioned but it might be useful as a summarize):

1) Stand-by Tickets: soo normal in US but it is very rare in Europe. I just saw one case last month when travelling with ITA - saw a group with standby tickets at check-in desk being given instructions (nothing bad). I might be a bit dumb but I do not get the reason to sell those to ordinary people other than airline employees;
2) Customer Services: You might have 24/7 in Europe but they take ages to pick up the phone, are sometimes rude, level of English is not great and they will struggle to offer solutions. I once flew UA from LHR to GRU and had an issue with my LHR Flight to ORD. UA's European Customer service was hopeless and wanted me to go a day later. Rang UA's US Customer Service and 15 minutes down the call, I've had a better connection with AC and a Canadian VISA to boot. AND the advisor even offered me an AA ticket if I did not like my AC connection;
3) Local Connections: Maybe because of the size of the countries, you never need to pick up your luggage and re-connect when arriving in a Country in Europe. Some years ago, flew LHR to LED via SVO and my luggage went straight through. All the time I had to connect in the US, I needed to allow extra time in conneciton to clear customs and pick up my luggage and re-check it again.
4) Airport Experience: In Europe, you seem to pass security and land straight in a Shopping Centre . You might as well go to the airport only with your Passport and buy your clothes, luggage, accessories all there (for a price, of course). In US, mostly a couple of cafeterias and bars. So, Europe = you might be too busy and forget your flight. In US = you might be too bored and sleep through the flight calls
5) Cabin Crew: With the exception of Air France. European Cabin Crew are way too uptight and mechanically efficient. They tend to demand simpathy and appreciation from the passengers but give very little in return. Also, Common Sense seems to always be missing. The only way to avoid this, is if you speak the Airline Language (German for Lufthansa, Spanish for Iberia, etc.). Personally, KLM you wonder if their dutch airhostess sometimes have an extra "metal accessory" on their shoes - you wouldn't like to bein the wrong side of an argument with them. US Cabin Crew (at least all the ones I had on my flights) seem more relaxed and accommodating. You flash a smile and are not a troublesome passenger, you will have a great flight. Same applies for AC.
6) Food: European varies from inexistent (short flights. Reasonable since most of passengers arrive early and are too shop ladden and have stopped at one of the airport fares anyway) to quite gourmet. Whatever you get. it seems quite tasty. US: I've once got a pizza slice on AA which nearly burn a hole through my stomach. I have not been catered decently on a US airline flight in any of my journeys (AA, DL and UA).
7) Immigration: US: if you have the right documents, ESTA, etc. is straight forward with maybe you leaving your digitals with the officer which will tend to be a quite or sociable (never rude) one. In EU, loads of electronic gates that seem to work for nobody or are way too slow and not enough officers to see you if you cannot use/had trouble with the e-gates. Tend to be agreeable but too patronizing.
8) Airport Staff: US = customer services mind personnel that when stroppy and unhelpful you clearly see that it is an exception and can be complained about. EU (UK mainly) = they do not give a **** about you and will heard you like cattle when needed. Seem not to care about passengers and see as if they are doing a favour for just bing there.
9) Luggage Pick up - EU: It does not matter if your luggage is security tagged or not. It will come when they come in the middle of the others. IF they come in some cases. Might take a while. US: So far, luggage tends to come quicker and, if priority tagged they WILL come first.
10) Luggage Security: EU - You might as well use the many shrinkage companies at the airport and use a padlock that will not open for their dear life. US: You may very likely lose money on the shrink or on padlocks as such. Your better investment is on a 4 Digit TSA Padlock approved if you love your luggage and contents. MIne has been opened twice with the famous note left. Glad someone gave me this advice.
11) Taxis: US Got too much lugagge. Do not want the car hire neither have anyone to pick you? No worries. Plenty of taxis and they are reasonably priced. EU: If you do not have anyone to pick you or a rental, you will pay dearly for the taxi and sometimes find taxists that do not want to take you where you want to go (too much luggage, traffic, etc.). UK = No pre-booked taxi (UBER), no rental or someone to pick you up? YOU ARE DONE. UBER, by the way, can be as much as GBP 80.00 on a ride to London Z4.
 
BlindMarshall
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2022 10:40 am

Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:26 pm

767Forever wrote:
In Europe, the departure boards are ordered chronologically, while in US, departure boards are ordered alphabetically. I much prefer the US system.

In Europe, planes often times will taxi into the runway and start takeoff roll without stopping. In US I don’t ever remember this happening


I have definitely had a few planes go right into the takeoff roll without stopping in the US. They usually need to wait for the air settle after the prior takeoff and it takes a bit longer than you might think to be safe.
 
schernov
Posts: 135
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:41 pm

Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:13 pm

So I just had a personal experience which demonstrated lots of differences:
I was flying day before Thanksgiving from LHR to ORD on BA A380 in J.
Plane boarded on time more or less but engineers were "still working on it".
-> difference 1. If there was a big open maintenance issue - US based airline would never board 350 people

We kept getting delayed. Captain did a very detailed job explaining what was happening. Oil leak in one engine. They pulled the filters and found shavings. Sent off for analysis.

When I heard that - I knew that we were screwed. AA and UA non stops were already gone. And BA does not have a spare wale sitting around. I asked the purser if they can voluntarily reroute people while there is still a way.
--> Nope. Not possible until flight is cancelled . Difference 2 - > this would have happened n US if asked.

I was lucky that my ticket was on AA paper. I called 800 AA in US and within 2 min got protected with a LHR-JFK-ORD routing on AA/JetBlue. Bam. No questions asked. Including seat assignment on long haul.

Original flight got cancelled. As I was preparing for my T5c to T3 sprint - BA was handing out hotel vouchers but nobody was getting rerouted. Nobody. AA jFK flight was wide open in J and Y and even F, there were connections to be had onward. Gate agents did not even have computer access to try. Everybody was being told to logon into the website and review options. I watched a F passenger call BA customer service and was being told the same.
--> Difference 3. Having been in similar situations before in US - if there is availability and you are willing to take unique routing, have no bags and can run - you will most likely get home.

Last bit. My PNR was so screwed up by the time I got to T3 transfer desk (by then BA rebooked me on same flight next day) but did not uncheck me out from cancelled flight. AA agent took my stuff and walked over to BA people to have them do something so he can reissue exchange. Two phone calls later by BA agent to some magic number - something clicked and AA guy was able to issue me boarding passes. I was there good 20 min - so it was good to see that AA/BA JV is working on the ops level. Rest of the trip was non eventful. Got home at midnight instead of 2 pm.
 
Breathe
Posts: 1097
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:06 pm

Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Fri Nov 25, 2022 6:32 pm

Vicenza wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Heinkel wrote:

You are absolutely right but from what I've learned here, there are also huge differences between the laws and regulations in different US states.


Passenger air service is Federally regulated in the U.S. Other than some crew labor laws there is no state regulation - and hasn't been since the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978.


Air service in the EU is very heavily regulated and administered by EU law and applies to all countries in the European Union. Indeed, it is recognised as something of a gold-standard and additionally implemented by other non-EU jurisdictions. I think the member was primarily meaning that there are very many US laws in everyday life which vary from state to state.

Not all European countries are part of the EU organisation though, Russia being one notable example.
 
Breathe
Posts: 1097
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:06 pm

Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Fri Nov 25, 2022 6:40 pm

One thing I've noticed that happened to me was I missed a flight in JFK to DCA. The check-in attendant told me that I would be put on a standby list for the next flight in an hour. I then asked her where I should go to recheck my bag. She told me that my bag was on the plane I just missed and would be waiting for me at DCA, much to my surprise! In my experience (in the UK at least), if people miss their flight, the bag is unloaded from the plane.
 
StTim
Posts: 4052
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:39 am

Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Fri Nov 25, 2022 7:45 pm

bennett123 wrote:
JibberJim wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Don't think you can walk to London Heathrow.


Pretty sure you can still walk to 4 and 5, I don't think there's been any changes since I have, (and then presumably connect to the middle if necessary), and I'm guessing the same cycle hub transfer for whilst the tunnel is being worked on can be used by pedestrians?

I don't actually know if the new tunnel to the common travel bit will be cycle only, or if pedestrians will be allowed?


Not sure.

I know there is a tunnel from the A4 which used to a walkway.

I thought it was now closed to the public.


Correct - but the bus from the last A4 stop to the Bus station in the central area is free (because you can no longer walk)
 
Vicenza
Posts: 1014
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:21 pm

Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:09 pm

Breathe wrote:
Vicenza wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

Passenger air service is Federally regulated in the U.S. Other than some crew labor laws there is no state regulation - and hasn't been since the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978.


Air service in the EU is very heavily regulated and administered by EU law and applies to all countries in the European Union. Indeed, it is recognised as something of a gold-standard and additionally implemented by other non-EU jurisdictions. I think the member was primarily meaning that there are very many US laws in everyday life which vary from state to state.

Not all European countries are part of the EU organisation though, Russia being one notable example.


Yes, but those countries have implemented EU aviation regulations as standard. Remember there is an EEA. Russia is not a notable example at all, because it is debatable if it is Europe (the vast majority is in Asia) and cannot be in either the EU or EEA.
 
bennett123
Posts: 11649
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:21 pm

StTim wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
JibberJim wrote:

Pretty sure you can still walk to 4 and 5, I don't think there's been any changes since I have, (and then presumably connect to the middle if necessary), and I'm guessing the same cycle hub transfer for whilst the tunnel is being worked on can be used by pedestrians?

I don't actually know if the new tunnel to the common travel bit will be cycle only, or if pedestrians will be allowed?


Not sure.

I know there is a tunnel from the A4 which used to a walkway.

I thought it was now closed to the public.


Correct - but the bus from the last A4 stop to the Bus station in the central area is free (because you can no longer walk)


Means you can't walk into the airport that way?.
 
redroo
Posts: 664
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:28 pm

Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Fri Nov 25, 2022 10:28 pm

johns624 wrote:
You don't have to thread your way through duty free shops that cover the whole concourse in the US.


When I lived in the UK, I used to deride the lack of shops at US airports. Now I live in Australia and fly regularly, I prefer the US way of doing things. I used the airport to get from A to B. I want efficiency, not an “experience”.
 
Heinkel
Posts: 421
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:15 pm

Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:03 pm

Breathe wrote:
Vicenza wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

Passenger air service is Federally regulated in the U.S. Other than some crew labor laws there is no state regulation - and hasn't been since the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978.


Air service in the EU is very heavily regulated and administered by EU law and applies to all countries in the European Union. Indeed, it is recognised as something of a gold-standard and additionally implemented by other non-EU jurisdictions. I think the member was primarily meaning that there are very many US laws in everyday life which vary from state to state.

Not all European countries are part of the EU organisation though, Russia being one notable example.


You are right. Europe is much bigger than the EU. Like America is much bigger than the USA.
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3556
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:29 am

Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:01 pm

Jomar777 wrote:
From my side (some might have already been mentioned but it might be useful as a summarize):

1) Stand-by Tickets: soo normal in US but it is very rare in Europe. I just saw one case last month when travelling with ITA - saw a group with standby tickets at check-in desk being given instructions (nothing bad). I might be a bit dumb but I do not get the reason to sell those to ordinary people other than airline employees;
2) Customer Services: You might have 24/7 in Europe but they take ages to pick up the phone, are sometimes rude, level of English is not great and they will struggle to offer solutions. I once flew UA from LHR to GRU and had an issue with my LHR Flight to ORD. UA's European Customer service was hopeless and wanted me to go a day later. Rang UA's US Customer Service and 15 minutes down the call, I've had a better connection with AC and a Canadian VISA to boot. AND the advisor even offered me an AA ticket if I did not like my AC connection;
3) Local Connections: Maybe because of the size of the countries, you never need to pick up your luggage and re-connect when arriving in a Country in Europe. Some years ago, flew LHR to LED via SVO and my luggage went straight through. All the time I had to connect in the US, I needed to allow extra time in conneciton to clear customs and pick up my luggage and re-check it again.
4) Airport Experience: In Europe, you seem to pass security and land straight in a Shopping Centre . You might as well go to the airport only with your Passport and buy your clothes, luggage, accessories all there (for a price, of course). In US, mostly a couple of cafeterias and bars. So, Europe = you might be too busy and forget your flight. In US = you might be too bored and sleep through the flight calls
5) Cabin Crew: With the exception of Air France. European Cabin Crew are way too uptight and mechanically efficient. They tend to demand simpathy and appreciation from the passengers but give very little in return. Also, Common Sense seems to always be missing. The only way to avoid this, is if you speak the Airline Language (German for Lufthansa, Spanish for Iberia, etc.). Personally, KLM you wonder if their dutch airhostess sometimes have an extra "metal accessory" on their shoes - you wouldn't like to bein the wrong side of an argument with them. US Cabin Crew (at least all the ones I had on my flights) seem more relaxed and accommodating. You flash a smile and are not a troublesome passenger, you will have a great flight. Same applies for AC.
6) Food: European varies from inexistent (short flights. Reasonable since most of passengers arrive early and are too shop ladden and have stopped at one of the airport fares anyway) to quite gourmet. Whatever you get. it seems quite tasty. US: I've once got a pizza slice on AA which nearly burn a hole through my stomach. I have not been catered decently on a US airline flight in any of my journeys (AA, DL and UA).
7) Immigration: US: if you have the right documents, ESTA, etc. is straight forward with maybe you leaving your digitals with the officer which will tend to be a quite or sociable (never rude) one. In EU, loads of electronic gates that seem to work for nobody or are way too slow and not enough officers to see you if you cannot use/had trouble with the e-gates. Tend to be agreeable but too patronizing.
8) Airport Staff: US = customer services mind personnel that when stroppy and unhelpful you clearly see that it is an exception and can be complained about. EU (UK mainly) = they do not give a **** about you and will heard you like cattle when needed. Seem not to care about passengers and see as if they are doing a favour for just bing there.
9) Luggage Pick up - EU: It does not matter if your luggage is security tagged or not. It will come when they come in the middle of the others. IF they come in some cases. Might take a while. US: So far, luggage tends to come quicker and, if priority tagged they WILL come first.
10) Luggage Security: EU - You might as well use the many shrinkage companies at the airport and use a padlock that will not open for their dear life. US: You may very likely lose money on the shrink or on padlocks as such. Your better investment is on a 4 Digit TSA Padlock approved if you love your luggage and contents. MIne has been opened twice with the famous note left. Glad someone gave me this advice.
11) Taxis: US Got too much lugagge. Do not want the car hire neither have anyone to pick you? No worries. Plenty of taxis and they are reasonably priced. EU: If you do not have anyone to pick you or a rental, you will pay dearly for the taxi and sometimes find taxists that do not want to take you where you want to go (too much luggage, traffic, etc.). UK = No pre-booked taxi (UBER), no rental or someone to pick you up? YOU ARE DONE. UBER, by the way, can be as much as GBP 80.00 on a ride to London Z4.


To my mind you are looking at this from a US perspective, as a UK citizen, I find US immigration painful to say the least, long lines ridiculously slow progress followed by big time sarcasm at best from the immigration officer.
Airport staff particularly bag drop/check in can be variable in Europe, in the US definitely expect to be treated like something that has been trodden on.

No one yet has mentioned duty free, in the rest of the World, you buy your goods and take it with you, in the US its delivered to the jetway and you have to look through the pile to find yours.
 
luckyone
Posts: 4807
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:28 pm

767Forever wrote:
In Europe, the departure boards are ordered chronologically, while in US, departure boards are ordered alphabetically. I much prefer the US system.

In Europe, planes often times will taxi into the runway and start takeoff roll without stopping. In US I don’t ever remember this happening

I agree I prefer my destination alphabetically. I rarely remember that my flight officially departs at "1656." At large airports there can be many flights leaving in a short window. Further, the chronological order always seems to shift while you're looking at it. The alphabetical rarely does.

I have very often done a taxi that rolls straight into takeoff in the US. It happens more at less busier airports.
 
dbeeo
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:59 am

Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Sun Nov 27, 2022 1:06 am

I only been to Europe once which is manchester airport. One thing surprised me is that there was no officer at the custom exit area, we just drop our declaration and walk away. While in US, the custom area is an extremely long queue line for most international airport . Not sure if it is the same for other European airport.
 
solracfunk14
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:10 am

Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Sun Nov 27, 2022 1:37 am

Very nice topic, let give my view in Brazil aviation, since it's kind of big. Btw I'm 121 worker since 2018, worked at Avianca Brazil and now in another one with a color name

Crew carry-on vs. checked bags: That's depends of which airport they are flying into, most of them allow crew to go downstairs to pickup their bags or the handling staff will take them up. But in a few ones isn't allowed (CGH for instance)
Reservations/call centers: Works 24/7 and most of the times are not outsourcing. But Call Centers are a mess in general in Brazil, have been improving through the years but still a mess in any business area.
Exit row luggage & window shades: Bags can go under the next seat in any row, but people -14 or 60+ age and non portuguese speaker aren't allowed to go. Only in the first row, emergency or not, no bags can go in front of you.

Ground crew outsourcing: Not at all, the only airline that tried for this went wrong, was Itapemirim Transportes Aéreos (ITA but no the italian one). They are bad at all, and outsourcing the airport agents just made things worst. In Europe I see this when I'm traveling standby, LX staff treat me as a king, but outsourcing don't even know how to look up for a free seats and don't care so much.

Notably more comprehensive gate announcements: Like USA, they tend to make annoucements but just once. After the line starts to move, they don't care so much, so better to hear in the first try.
 
RollerRB211
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:39 pm

Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:36 am

Jomar777 wrote:
1) Stand-by Tickets: soo normal in US but it is very rare in Europe. I just saw one case last month when travelling with ITA - saw a group with standby tickets at check-in desk being given instructions (nothing bad). I might be a bit dumb but I do not get the reason to sell those to ordinary people other than airline employees;


I am not aware of a single airline that sells standby tickets to ordinary people in the US
 
SkyLife
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:45 pm

Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:59 am

RollerRB211 wrote:
Jomar777 wrote:
1) Stand-by Tickets: soo normal in US but it is very rare in Europe. I just saw one case last month when travelling with ITA - saw a group with standby tickets at check-in desk being given instructions (nothing bad). I might be a bit dumb but I do not get the reason to sell those to ordinary people other than airline employees;


I am not aware of a single airline that sells standby tickets to ordinary people in the US


Several US airlines allow revenue passengers to standby for an earlier flight or a missed flight but they still purchased a revenue ticket. I’m not aware of standby only tickets except those available to employees and family/friends of said employees.
 
SkyLife
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:45 pm

Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:02 am

BlindMarshall wrote:
767Forever wrote:
In Europe, the departure boards are ordered chronologically, while in US, departure boards are ordered alphabetically. I much prefer the US system.

In Europe, planes often times will taxi into the runway and start takeoff roll without stopping. In US I don’t ever remember this happening


I have definitely had a few planes go right into the takeoff roll without stopping in the US. They usually need to wait for the air settle after the prior takeoff and it takes a bit longer than you might think to be safe.


I encounter takeoff clearances without a line up and wait often. One thing to consider is it’s not always spacing for wake turbulence but can also be departure procedure (SID) spacing. I see ground/tower sequence departing traffic by SID to avoid these pretty often.
 
schernov
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Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:17 am

Although this was mostly killed off after 9/11 - many US airports had curbside bag check-in. Like you pull up to drop somebody off and there was a porter to grab your bags and process them right on the sidewalk. Boarding passes and Everything. Many airports still have mothballed infrastructure in place for that.

In some airports (Russia, India from experience) all bags get scanned at the entrance to the airport building. To me it's more theatrics as I have never seen anybody got pulled aside.

Jetways - no glass jetways in US. Why is that?
 
AA321TDCA
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Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:25 am

I love how EU carriers handles standby travel, they seem to control their inventory much better.
 
iadadd
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Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:28 am

Connecting from a Non-Schengen flight to a Schengen flight and not needing to collect and recheck bags is a huge plus for EU travel. If you're connecting from Int'l to Domestic in the U.S. you have to claim and recheck bags, but to be fair this is common practice in many countries
 
a320fan
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Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:42 am

gwrudolph wrote:
Iluvtofly wrote:
Overall I feel that Euro standards are way higher than US ones. The most obvious being the amount of hours US F/A's are allowed to fly in a month.
I read of some US based crew flying 160 hours a month. That would never ever be allowed in most countries due to health and safety concerns. No wonder
US flight crew fall asleep in their jumpseats. Do US crew really fly with only carry on when doing a multi-day layover? And many many US carriers use contract staff
for their *above wing* operations. Where do you get the idea that they don't ?


US flight crews fall asleep in their jump seats? I have never, ever seen a crew member sleep in a jump seat. I think doing so would violate most airline policies if not FAA rules


I’ve only seen it happen once, and wasn’t in the US was A Wizzair FA sitting in the behind wing pax facing jump seat on a A321. Guy was asleep right up until we were turning off the runway.
 
a320fan
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Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:46 am

I don’t have any firsthand experience in US aviation but I’ve difference between Australian and European airline operations is cabin crew checking your boarding passes as you board. On not one of my numerous flights on EU LCCs in 2019 were the crew checking boarding passes as passengers entered the plane. They always check your boarding passes when entering a flight in Australia, and other international airlines I flew were they same. Not Easy, Ryan or Wizz though.
 
Noshow
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Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:31 am

In Europe I have never been "ordered" by the cabin crew to lower all the window shades on shutdown (for cooler parking) or even for takeoff like in the US southwest. In Europe you must be able to see outside if there is an evacuation and you need to check for fires or debris in front of the next emergency exit.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:27 pm

a320fan wrote:
I don’t have any firsthand experience in US aviation but I’ve difference between Australian and European airline operations is cabin crew checking your boarding passes as you board. On not one of my numerous flights on EU LCCs in 2019 were the crew checking boarding passes as passengers entered the plane. They always check your boarding passes when entering a flight in Australia, and other international airlines I flew were they same. Not Easy, Ryan or Wizz though.


The cabin crew don’t check boarding passes in the US, either.

I don’t get the shades down idea, either. I hate sitting in a dark plane for hours in daylight.
 
Eikie
Posts: 228
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Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Sun Nov 27, 2022 6:15 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
a320fan wrote:
I don’t have any firsthand experience in US aviation but I’ve difference between Australian and European airline operations is cabin crew checking your boarding passes as you board. On not one of my numerous flights on EU LCCs in 2019 were the crew checking boarding passes as passengers entered the plane. They always check your boarding passes when entering a flight in Australia, and other international airlines I flew were they same. Not Easy, Ryan or Wizz though.


The cabin crew don’t check boarding passes in the US, either.

I don’t get the shades down idea, either. I hate sitting in a dark plane for hours in daylight.

It helps a LOT when it's hot and sunny, to keep the cabin cool(er).
On many (European) airports, the use of the APU is restricted (only few minutes after arrival and before engine start) and many stationary airco units are.... not good at getting a cabin cooled. They can usually keep it cool, but if the temperature inside is already quite high, they are useless.
Keeping the shades down as soon as you are on the ground helps in keeping the warm up to a minimum.
 
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BoeingERJ1000
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Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:01 pm

767Forever wrote:
In Europe, planes often times will taxi into the runway and start takeoff roll without stopping. In US I don’t ever remember this happening


Interesting, it's the opposite for me. Many takeoffs I've experienced in the US have been rolling takeoffs, while all takeoffs in Europe (at least in Spain) have been "regular" takeoffs (taxi into the runway, stop, take off). Admittedly this is anectodal, but I just wanted to point it out.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:06 pm

Eikie wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
a320fan wrote:
I don’t have any firsthand experience in US aviation but I’ve difference between Australian and European airline operations is cabin crew checking your boarding passes as you board. On not one of my numerous flights on EU LCCs in 2019 were the crew checking boarding passes as passengers entered the plane. They always check your boarding passes when entering a flight in Australia, and other international airlines I flew were they same. Not Easy, Ryan or Wizz though.


The cabin crew don’t check boarding passes in the US, either.

I don’t get the shades down idea, either. I hate sitting in a dark plane for hours in daylight.

It helps a LOT when it's hot and sunny, to keep the cabin cool(er).
On many (European) airports, the use of the APU is restricted (only few minutes after arrival and before engine start) and many stationary airco units are.... not good at getting a cabin cooled. They can usually keep it cool, but if the temperature inside is already quite high, they are useless.
Keeping the shades down as soon as you are on the ground helps in keeping the warm up to a minimum.


I understand that after decades of flying, what I don’t get is sitting in dark cabin IN-FLIGHT. And some airlines them down for take-off. Shades aren’t helping cool the cabin when the OAT is -40C at F360.
 
johns624
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Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:38 pm

schernov wrote:
Although this was mostly killed off after 9/11 - many US airports had curbside bag check-in. Like you pull up to drop somebody off and there was a porter to grab your bags and process them right on the sidewalk. Boarding passes and Everything. Many airports still have mothballed infrastructure in place for that.
DTW and BOS still have skycaps, plus others.
 
questions
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Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:54 pm

BoeingERJ1000 wrote:
767Forever wrote:
In Europe, planes often times will taxi into the runway and start takeoff roll without stopping. In US I don’t ever remember this happening


Interesting, it's the opposite for me. Many takeoffs I've experienced in the US have been rolling takeoffs, while all takeoffs in Europe (at least in Spain) have been "regular" takeoffs (taxi into the runway, stop, take off). Admittedly this is anectodal, but I just wanted to point it out.


Also anecdotal, US and abroad, small/low traffic airports => higher probability of rolling takeoffs; large/high traffic airports => higher probability of taxi, stop, takeoff.
 
questions
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Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:01 pm

There are several posts about more sophisticated apps and more automation for US airlines. Why is this not more prevalent for European airlines? Lack of desire to spend on technology? Labor unions protecting jobs?
 
mxaxai
Posts: 3402
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:29 am

Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:25 pm

Visual approaches are common in the US but the exception in Europe. This allows airports like SFO to regularly handle parallel approaches on closely spaced runways, whereas comparable EU airports like FRA don't/can't do that.
Almost all larger European airports have some kind of slot system (IATA level 2 or 3) while only selected, extremely constrained US airports do so.

A side effect of those two differences, combined with more conservative slot planning, is that extended ground stops and long lines of aircraft waiting for takeoff are very rare in Europe.


Another thing I've observed: Given how densely covered Europe is with airports, flights often divert to a relatively close airport, from where PAX are bussed (or, less frequently, given train tickets) to their original destination. For example, if FRA is closed for weather, frequent diversion airports are STR, CGN and NUE, all of which are about 2h by bus or train from FRA. Never seen this happen in the US.
 
Pontiac
Posts: 69
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Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:23 pm

johns624 wrote:
schernov wrote:
Although this was mostly killed off after 9/11 - many US airports had curbside bag check-in. Like you pull up to drop somebody off and there was a porter to grab your bags and process them right on the sidewalk. Boarding passes and Everything. Many airports still have mothballed infrastructure in place for that.
DTW and BOS still have skycaps, plus others.


AS does at SEA, maybe UA and AA also. Nobody at Sunport (ABQ) does though. :(
 
rbretas
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:21 am

Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:47 am

Do European Airlines usually allow passengers to switch to an earlier flight during check-in if they have a basic economy ticket (and seats are available, of course)?

I've done that a few times in the the Americas, but in Japan it's only allowed if you have a ticket that allows free rebooking or paying for rebooking (effectively rebooking your flight).
 
Lostmoon744
Posts: 164
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:29 am

Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:30 am

European pilots engage the A/P as soon as possible and can't wait until the plane flies itself. Meanwhile, American pilots actually fly the plane themselves to keep their stick/rudder skills honed.
 
Eikie
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:15 pm

Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:24 am

Lostmoon744 wrote:
European pilots engage the A/P as soon as possible and can't wait until the plane flies itself. Meanwhile, American pilots actually fly the plane themselves to keep their stick/rudder skills honed.

Not true, as it varies wildly. I'm European and hardly ever use the AP under 10.000ft (if conditions allow), as do my colleagues.
And as far as I can tell from contacts at other airlines, they mostly do the same.
 
RollerRB211
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:39 pm

Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:17 am

AA321TDCA wrote:
I love how EU carriers handles standby travel, they seem to control their inventory much better.


How so?
 
smed63
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:02 pm

Re: Differences in US vs. European Airline Operating Practices

Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:43 am

schernov wrote:
Jetways - no glass jetways in US. Why is that?

Not very common in US, I agree, but at least Amarillo, Texas has (or had when I last flew from there about five years ago) glass jetways.

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