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AntonioMartin
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Could San Juan build another airport?

Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:18 pm

LMM is 56 years old now. It's site constricted because of water on both sides of it. I do not think there is any space for expansion there.

Looking at Google Earth, however, I do not see any spot in all of Puerto Rico where a new airport could be built, San Juan has done a good job of over-populating itself with buildings, environmental areas and parks, homes, commercial space, factories and driveways, therefore leaving no space for a new airport, at least, not visible on Google Earth space.

How could, in your opinion, San Juan solve that in the future? If San Juan wanted more airlines, could a new airport be necessary? Or is the current airport going to be enough and sufficient for the next 50 or so years? Does San Juan need a World-Cup type event to increase their airline numbers and therefore maybe need a new airport or an airport extension?

I apologize if these are too many questions but its been a topic on my mind for a very long time.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Could San Juan build another airport?

Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:30 pm

Considering PR’s finances, unlikely.
 
Cory6188
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Re: Could San Juan build another airport?

Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:36 pm

Is SJU anywhere near capacity constrained given its footprint at the moment? If not, I doubt it's something Puerto Rico is terribly worried about (its current financial issues notwithstanding!).
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Could San Juan build another airport?

Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:48 pm

There is of course always NRR (José Aponte de la Torre Airport / Roosevelt Roads Airport) in Ceiba. A former military airport which can easily be expanded, the runway is already there.

It's quite a distance from San Juan, I estimate it to be about 50 kilometers. But if it's just for serving the island it's more than sufficient.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Could San Juan build another airport?

Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:50 pm

SJU traffic is still well below what it saw as an AA hub, why would they build a new airport?
 
MIflyer12
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Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Could San Juan build another airport?

Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:02 pm

Plenty of U.S. airports are more than 56 years old, having seen runway rebuilds, extensions, and adds, plus terminal updates or adds. It got 9.4 million passengers in 2019. It saw 9.5 million passengers in 2001, and a peak of 10.8 million passengers in 2008. I don't see any argument for a new airport located somewhere else -- just none at all.
 
stewartg
Posts: 115
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:17 pm

Re: Could San Juan build another airport?

Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:05 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
SJU traffic is still well below what it saw as an AA hub, why would they build a new airport?



SJU's golden era was when EA and AA had their hubs there. The year I lived there (1990) in Bayamon, West of SJU directly under flight path, I would watch A-300 after A-300 line up for landing. Those were the days when terminal A was truly needed.
 
stewartg
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Re: Could San Juan build another airport?

Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:11 pm

Perhaps a better question would be: Why did Jetblue build a new terminal instead of taking over D where AA had its gates. Latest Google image shows the whole side abandoned.
 
303dk
Posts: 551
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:26 pm

Re: Could San Juan build another airport?

Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:48 pm

stewartg wrote:
Perhaps a better question would be: Why did Jetblue build a new terminal instead of taking over D where AA had its gates. Latest Google image shows the whole side abandoned.

It’s not abandoned. A few gates are in use by Caribbean carriers and the rest is under renovation. The renovated portion is expected to be completed soon.
 
dcaproducer
Posts: 618
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Re: Could San Juan build another airport?

Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:01 pm

I was just in SJU a few weeks ago and go through the airport once or twice a year. They have plenty of space and two good runways. It's also centrally located. Traffic in PR is terrible and putting the airport 20-30 mi out of town would be inconvenient. SJU has a nice consolidated rental car facility and plenty of curb space for arriving passengers. JetBlue's operation is quite extensive. The B gates are relatively new.

When I was at SJU just a few weeks ago the place was packed. (Flew in on a Tuesday out on a Saturday) I think for now, the airport has adequate facilities.
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: Could San Juan build another airport?

Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:11 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
SJU traffic is still well below what it saw as an AA hub, why would they build a new airport?

Not now maybe, but down the road? In the next 4-5 decades?
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 528
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Re: Could San Juan build another airport?

Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:16 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
I was just in SJU a few weeks ago and go through the airport once or twice a year. They have plenty of space and two good runways. It's also centrally located. Traffic in PR is terrible and putting the airport 20-30 mi out of town would be inconvenient. SJU has a nice consolidated rental car facility and plenty of curb space for arriving passengers. JetBlue's operation is quite extensive. The B gates are relatively new.

When I was at SJU just a few weeks ago the place was packed. (Flew in on a Tuesday out on a Saturday) I think for now, the airport has adequate facilities.


Was also there a couple of weeks ago and would concur that it is busy but adequate. Just don’t make the same mistake I did and rent a car from a company that is not housed in the consolidated facility…

The real question is, why doesn’t every sizable airport have a facility like the aeroparque at SJU? A convenience store, bar, and large raised terrace overlooking an active runway? Really neat and seemingly popular even with locals. Great mix of intra-Caribbean traffic too.
 
AntonioMartin
Topic Author
Posts: 1296
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:58 am

Re: Could San Juan build another airport?

Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:22 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
There is of course always NRR (José Aponte de la Torre Airport / Roosevelt Roads Airport) in Ceiba. A former military airport which can easily be expanded, the runway is already there.

It's quite a distance from San Juan, I estimate it to be about 50 kilometers. But if it's just for serving the island it's more than sufficient.

Yeah in 30 to 40 years I do see Ceiba, Aguadilla and, to a lesser extent, Ponce as viable options to increase airline traffic there, shall economic situations improve. With the types of aircraft flying these days, 787s that can fit like 150 people from places like Europe and from Africa to the Caribbean, for example, its possible. Imagine what the future aircraft of those sizes could do, we are possibly talking Japan to Eastern Brazil non-stop on an A220 type two holer, 40 years down the road (which would make flights on say ANA or Japan Airlines there or even to San Juan, viable) Of course that would also depend on the US government agencies granting extra traffic rights and on Puerto Rico itself advertising itself as a destination in those areas.

The problems in San Juan proper would be ...because of the way the area airport is built and because of the area itself (with natural features that would restrain the left runway's expansion) AND because there really isnt much space in San Juan or Carolina for more building, then....you know....service like that would have to be split out between the different airports....if SJU was slot constricted in 40 years from now, that is...
Last edited by AntonioMartin on Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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GlobalAirways
Posts: 199
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Re: Could San Juan build another airport?

Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:23 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Considering PR’s finances, unlikely.


Right, I think they have a lot of other public service projects that could better benefit from government spending.
 
AntonioMartin
Topic Author
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Re: Could San Juan build another airport?

Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:29 pm

GlobalAirways wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Considering PR’s finances, unlikely.


Right, I think they have a lot of other public service projects that could better benefit from government spending.

That is definitely true.
 
panam330
Posts: 2504
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:58 am

Re: Could San Juan build another airport?

Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:52 pm

AntonioMartin wrote:
787s that can fit like 150 people from places like Europe and from Africa to the Caribbean, for example, its possible. Imagine what the future aircraft of those sizes could do, we are possibly talking Japan to Eastern Brazil non-stop on an A220 type two holer, 40 years down the road (which would make flights on say ANA or Japan Airlines there or even to San Juan, viable)

Never say never, but the chances of any of these are approaching 0. JL/NH don't serve ATL, MIA, or other metro areas with more wealth and population than the entire island of Puerto Rico. SJU doesn't even have a nonstop to LAX anymore. Additionally, a 787 with only 150 seats (JL's lighter 787-8 config has 161 seats, for example) is *super* premium, and SJU simply will not produce yield like that to anywhere. Any of these are a pipe dream, at absolute best.
 
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tjwgrr
Posts: 2738
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Re: Could San Juan build another airport?

Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:40 pm

stewartg wrote:
Perhaps a better question would be: Why did Jetblue build a new terminal instead of taking over D where AA had its gates. Latest Google image shows the whole side abandoned.


Don't always go by Google images for airports. Google scrubs the aircraft most of the time.

It looks like they could extend E to the west or build a separate terminal "F" in that same area if they determine they need more capacity at some point.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 10366
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Could San Juan build another airport?

Tue Nov 22, 2022 9:37 pm

Rosie Roads a long drive to downtown San Juan, about an hour unless the roads have been dramatically improved over the years since it closed.
 
303dk
Posts: 551
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:26 pm

Re: Could San Juan build another airport?

Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:46 pm

The airport’s immediate need is more dining options. On A is just the food court, no bar or full service. The majority of the food on B/C is grab and go. The lounges are also busy - wait times of over 2 hours isn’t uncommon on weekend afternoons.
 
santi319
Posts: 1492
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:24 pm

Re: Could San Juan build another airport?

Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:54 pm

Why? Perhaps they should fix their electrical grid first..
 
phatfarmlines
Posts: 2427
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:06 pm

Re: Could San Juan build another airport?

Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:00 am

AntonioMartin wrote:
LMM is 56 years old now. It's site constricted because of water on both sides of it. I do not think there is any space for expansion there.

Looking at Google Earth, however, I do not see any spot in all of Puerto Rico where a new airport could be built, San Juan has done a good job of over-populating itself with buildings, environmental areas and parks, homes, commercial space, factories and driveways, therefore leaving no space for a new airport, at least, not visible on Google Earth space.

How could, in your opinion, San Juan solve that in the future? If San Juan wanted more airlines, could a new airport be necessary? Or is the current airport going to be enough and sufficient for the next 50 or so years? Does San Juan need a World-Cup type event to increase their airline numbers and therefore maybe need a new airport or an airport extension?

I apologize if these are too many questions but its been a topic on my mind for a very long time.


A thought-provoking topic, but I think you know the answer to that. SJU won't be replaced for a long time - let's not even bring to light how the government would fund such a project. The best thing it has going for the long-term future is a comprehensive renovation of Terminal D/E and former AA hub headhouse complex. Also note only small portion of the original terminal complex is nearing 60 years old.

Future growth will likely occur at Roosevelt Roads for mainline flying. The terminal space could support a NK-type operation there. Though Puerto Rico really needs to get into the all-inclusive game if it wants to see NRR utilized.

SJU is rebounding rather quickly passenger-wise. How it is getting there is through a completely different network mix which is vastly different from 20 years ago (larger and high-density narrowbodies, not much regional flying compared to the American Eagle days).

I posted this on the Caribbean Aviation thread for 2022:

SJU exceeds 10 million passengers between fiscal year May 2021 and May 2022 - first time happening since 2007"

Record Number of Passengers Reported at San Juan Airport

Source: One Caribbean News (via YouTube)


Video on SJU master planning for Terminal D (In Spanish - use translate feature on YouTube for English subtitles).

En detalle: los planes y administración del Aeropuerto Internacional Luis Muñoz Marín en Puerto Rico

Source: Noticel (via YouTube)

Key takeaways:
1) SJU renovating 8 gates at Terminal D, 5 of which will be used for regional carriers. 3 will be used for mainline operations with jetways.
2) The large customs and immigration area between Terminals C & D will be gutted. The area will be reserved for future expansion.
3) A new customs area will be built closer for the regional carriers at Terminal D.
4) No further headhouse expansion expected - plenty of space at the former AA hub headhouse for future expansion.

stewartg wrote:
Perhaps a better question would be: Why did Jetblue build a new terminal instead of taking over D where AA had its gates. Latest Google image shows the whole side abandoned.


Terminal A wasn't built for B6 originally. It was to be the international terminal for all non-OW aligned carriers.
 
PilotJAY16
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:02 pm

Re: Could San Juan build another airport?

Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:25 am

phatfarmlines wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
LMM is 56 years old now. It's site constricted because of water on both sides of it. I do not think there is any space for expansion there.

Looking at Google Earth, however, I do not see any spot in all of Puerto Rico where a new airport could be built, San Juan has done a good job of over-populating itself with buildings, environmental areas and parks, homes, commercial space, factories and driveways, therefore leaving no space for a new airport, at least, not visible on Google Earth space.

How could, in your opinion, San Juan solve that in the future? If San Juan wanted more airlines, could a new airport be necessary? Or is the current airport going to be enough and sufficient for the next 50 or so years? Does San Juan need a World-Cup type event to increase their airline numbers and therefore maybe need a new airport or an airport extension?

I apologize if these are too many questions but its been a topic on my mind for a very long time.


A thought-provoking topic, but I think you know the answer to that. SJU won't be replaced for a long time - let's not even bring to light how the government would fund such a project. The best thing it has going for the long-term future is a comprehensive renovation of Terminal D/E and former AA hub headhouse complex. Also note only small portion of the original terminal complex is nearing 60 years old.

Future growth will likely occur at Roosevelt Roads for mainline flying. The terminal space could support a NK-type operation there. Though Puerto Rico really needs to get into the all-inclusive game if it wants to see NRR utilized.

SJU is rebounding rather quickly passenger-wise. How it is getting there is through a completely different network mix which is vastly different from 20 years ago (larger and high-density narrowbodies, not much regional flying compared to the American Eagle days).

I posted this on the Caribbean Aviation thread for 2022:

SJU exceeds 10 million passengers between fiscal year May 2021 and May 2022 - first time happening since 2007"

Record Number of Passengers Reported at San Juan Airport

Source: One Caribbean News (via YouTube)


Video on SJU master planning for Terminal D (In Spanish - use translate feature on YouTube for English subtitles).

En detalle: los planes y administración del Aeropuerto Internacional Luis Muñoz Marín en Puerto Rico

Source: Noticel (via YouTube)

Key takeaways:
1) SJU renovating 8 gates at Terminal D, 5 of which will be used for regional carriers. 3 will be used for mainline operations with jetways.
2) The large customs and immigration area between Terminals C & D will be gutted. The area will be reserved for future expansion.
3) A new customs area will be built closer for the regional carriers at Terminal D.
4) No further headhouse expansion expected - plenty of space at the former AA hub headhouse for future expansion.

stewartg wrote:
Perhaps a better question would be: Why did Jetblue build a new terminal instead of taking over D where AA had its gates. Latest Google image shows the whole side abandoned.


Terminal A wasn't built for B6 originally. It was to be the international terminal for all non-OW aligned carriers.


Does Terminal A have international arrivals gates? Any updated terminal maps w/ gates for SJU? I can’t seem to find any online.
 
303dk
Posts: 551
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:26 pm

Re: Could San Juan build another airport?

Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:34 pm

PilotJAY16 wrote:
phatfarmlines wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
LMM is 56 years old now. It's site constricted because of water on both sides of it. I do not think there is any space for expansion there.

Looking at Google Earth, however, I do not see any spot in all of Puerto Rico where a new airport could be built, San Juan has done a good job of over-populating itself with buildings, environmental areas and parks, homes, commercial space, factories and driveways, therefore leaving no space for a new airport, at least, not visible on Google Earth space.

How could, in your opinion, San Juan solve that in the future? If San Juan wanted more airlines, could a new airport be necessary? Or is the current airport going to be enough and sufficient for the next 50 or so years? Does San Juan need a World-Cup type event to increase their airline numbers and therefore maybe need a new airport or an airport extension?

I apologize if these are too many questions but its been a topic on my mind for a very long time.


A thought-provoking topic, but I think you know the answer to that. SJU won't be replaced for a long time - let's not even bring to light how the government would fund such a project. The best thing it has going for the long-term future is a comprehensive renovation of Terminal D/E and former AA hub headhouse complex. Also note only small portion of the original terminal complex is nearing 60 years old.

Future growth will likely occur at Roosevelt Roads for mainline flying. The terminal space could support a NK-type operation there. Though Puerto Rico really needs to get into the all-inclusive game if it wants to see NRR utilized.

SJU is rebounding rather quickly passenger-wise. How it is getting there is through a completely different network mix which is vastly different from 20 years ago (larger and high-density narrowbodies, not much regional flying compared to the American Eagle days).

I posted this on the Caribbean Aviation thread for 2022:

SJU exceeds 10 million passengers between fiscal year May 2021 and May 2022 - first time happening since 2007"

Record Number of Passengers Reported at San Juan Airport

Source: One Caribbean News (via YouTube)


Video on SJU master planning for Terminal D (In Spanish - use translate feature on YouTube for English subtitles).

En detalle: los planes y administración del Aeropuerto Internacional Luis Muñoz Marín en Puerto Rico

Source: Noticel (via YouTube)

Key takeaways:
1) SJU renovating 8 gates at Terminal D, 5 of which will be used for regional carriers. 3 will be used for mainline operations with jetways.
2) The large customs and immigration area between Terminals C & D will be gutted. The area will be reserved for future expansion.
3) A new customs area will be built closer for the regional carriers at Terminal D.
4) No further headhouse expansion expected - plenty of space at the former AA hub headhouse for future expansion.

stewartg wrote:
Perhaps a better question would be: Why did Jetblue build a new terminal instead of taking over D where AA had its gates. Latest Google image shows the whole side abandoned.


Terminal A wasn't built for B6 originally. It was to be the international terminal for all non-OW aligned carriers.


Does Terminal A have international arrivals gates? Any updated terminal maps w/ gates for SJU? I can’t seem to find any online.

At least gates 1 and 2, although in my recent experience B6 international arrivals have gone in to the big customs area. Not sure what Tradewind is using.
Last edited by 303dk on Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 941
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: Could San Juan build another airport?

Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:49 pm

Why? The airport never seems full whenever I'm there.
 
stewartg
Posts: 115
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:17 pm

Re: Could San Juan build another airport?

Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:49 pm

CMHtraveler wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
I was just in SJU a few weeks ago and go through the airport once or twice a year. They have plenty of space and two good runways. It's also centrally located. Traffic in PR is terrible and putting the airport 20-30 mi out of town would be inconvenient. SJU has a nice consolidated rental car facility and plenty of curb space for arriving passengers. JetBlue's operation is quite extensive. The B gates are relatively new.

When I was at SJU just a few weeks ago the place was packed. (Flew in on a Tuesday out on a Saturday) I think for now, the airport has adequate facilities.


Was also there a couple of weeks ago and would concur that it is busy but adequate. Just don’t make the same mistake I did and rent a car from a company that is not housed in the consolidated facility…

The real question is, why doesn’t every sizable airport have a facility like the aeroparque at SJU? A convenience store, bar, and large raised terrace overlooking an active runway? Really neat and seemingly popular even with locals. Great mix of intra-Caribbean traffic too.


Because few cultures know the art of idling and enjoying the breeze while waiting for loved ones. I think its because people come from all over the island to pick up pax here. As someone said, traffic has always been something to be admired on the island. So you arrive with ample time. The Aeroparque is the grandfather of your cell phone lot.
 
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JBo
Posts: 1952
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:23 am

Re: Could San Juan build another airport?

Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:53 pm

stewartg wrote:
Perhaps a better question would be: Why did Jetblue build a new terminal instead of taking over D where AA had its gates. Latest Google image shows the whole side abandoned.


Google Satellite photos also regularly remove images of aircraft parked on ramps. If you zoom and scroll around, you'll find incongruities in pavement lines and markings where the AI image fill didn't quite get it perfect.
 
dcaproducer
Posts: 618
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:26 pm

Re: Could San Juan build another airport?

Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:08 pm

stewartg wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
I was just in SJU a few weeks ago and go through the airport once or twice a year. They have plenty of space and two good runways. It's also centrally located. Traffic in PR is terrible and putting the airport 20-30 mi out of town would be inconvenient. SJU has a nice consolidated rental car facility and plenty of curb space for arriving passengers. JetBlue's operation is quite extensive. The B gates are relatively new.

When I was at SJU just a few weeks ago the place was packed. (Flew in on a Tuesday out on a Saturday) I think for now, the airport has adequate facilities.


Was also there a couple of weeks ago and would concur that it is busy but adequate. Just don’t make the same mistake I did and rent a car from a company that is not housed in the consolidated facility…

The real question is, why doesn’t every sizable airport have a facility like the aeroparque at SJU? A convenience store, bar, and large raised terrace overlooking an active runway? Really neat and seemingly popular even with locals. Great mix of intra-Caribbean traffic too.


Because few cultures know the art of idling and enjoying the breeze while waiting for loved ones. I think its because people come from all over the island to pick up pax here. As someone said, traffic has always been something to be admired on the island. So you arrive with ample time. The Aeroparque is the grandfather of your cell phone lot.


My friends who live on the island say they've even had parties at that spot. Heck, how many cell phone lots sell beer?
 
stewartg
Posts: 115
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:17 pm

Re: Could San Juan build another airport?

Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:49 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
stewartg wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:

Was also there a couple of weeks ago and would concur that it is busy but adequate. Just don’t make the same mistake I did and rent a car from a company that is not housed in the consolidated facility…

The real question is, why doesn’t every sizable airport have a facility like the aeroparque at SJU? A convenience store, bar, and large raised terrace overlooking an active runway? Really neat and seemingly popular even with locals. Great mix of intra-Caribbean traffic too.


Because few cultures know the art of idling and enjoying the breeze while waiting for loved ones. I think its because people come from all over the island to pick up pax here. As someone said, traffic has always been something to be admired on the island. So you arrive with ample time. The Aeroparque is the grandfather of your cell phone lot.


My friends who live on the island say they've even had parties at that spot. Heck, how many cell phone lots sell beer?

Now there's an idea we can throw bitcoins at.....
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5651
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: Could San Juan build another airport?

Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:18 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
stewartg wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:

Was also there a couple of weeks ago and would concur that it is busy but adequate. Just don’t make the same mistake I did and rent a car from a company that is not housed in the consolidated facility…

The real question is, why doesn’t every sizable airport have a facility like the aeroparque at SJU? A convenience store, bar, and large raised terrace overlooking an active runway? Really neat and seemingly popular even with locals. Great mix of intra-Caribbean traffic too.


Because few cultures know the art of idling and enjoying the breeze while waiting for loved ones. I think its because people come from all over the island to pick up pax here. As someone said, traffic has always been something to be admired on the island. So you arrive with ample time. The Aeroparque is the grandfather of your cell phone lot.


My friends who live on the island say they've even had parties at that spot. Heck, how many cell phone lots sell beer?


It's been over 10 years since I've been to SJU, but Aeroparque used to (and might still be) fun for the whole family. It had a playground for kids, party room which could be rented, snack bar with hot food and alcohol, and plenty of places to spot. They even had a guy selling Gemini Jets out of his trunk once.

The place would be packed on weekends, too. I've always gotten the feeling Puerto Ricans like their airplanes a little more than most.
 
capejet
Posts: 244
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:08 pm

Re: Could San Juan build another airport?

Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:24 pm

One thing the AA SJU hub did well was provide frequent connections from the Mainland to STT/STX via SJU. I think they operated close to a dozen STT flights and slightly fewer to STX. That was on the Executive Airlines American Eagle and I think they were all props. I wonder if they would be all RJs today if that hub were still active (meaning Eastern and PanAm still had the MIA hub).

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