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floridaflyboy wrote:taking liquids through for fellow travelers who don't qualify for KCM
USAirALB wrote:The article mentions a case where a FA brought meth through KCM as one of the reasons KCM is being retired in favor of a TSA-run program.
I'm not condoning the FA's behavior (and I believe they should be prosecuted in accordance with the law) but what business is it to TSA if someone is bringing illicit drugs through a checkpoint? TSOs aren't supposed to search for drugs...
n797mx wrote:floridaflyboy wrote:taking liquids through for fellow travelers who don't qualify for KCM
Wine. I know lots that take excessive amounts of wine through KCM.
alasizon wrote:Personally, I hope whatever new program they put in place simply results in a dedicated airline employee lane at the checkpoint. Realistically, it doesn't take a big difference in time comparing KCM to putting your bags on the belt with only fellow employees in front/behind you. It is waiting for ID checks and regular passengers who aren't familiar with pre-check that take forever.
USAirALB wrote:The article mentions a case where a FA brought meth through KCM as one of the reasons KCM is being retired in favor of a TSA-run program.
I'm not condoning the FA's behavior (and I believe they should be prosecuted in accordance with the law) but what business is it to TSA if someone is bringing illicit drugs through a checkpoint? TSOs aren't supposed to search for drugs...
floridaflyboy wrote:alasizon wrote:Personally, I hope whatever new program they put in place simply results in a dedicated airline employee lane at the checkpoint. Realistically, it doesn't take a big difference in time comparing KCM to putting your bags on the belt...
Back when I was a MSP-based FA, we had an employee-only checkpoint in the Lindbergh Terminal. It was fantastic. Even with taking off my shoes (2008), I could sail through there faster than KCM in my later days.
Cactusjuba wrote:I don't buy it. Sorry. The TSA just wants to dissolve of the program, and are using a micro sized number of offenders as scapegoats. What is the purpose of security screening? Anyone? Isn't it about safety? In light of September 11th, the TSA was formed to prevent something like that from occuring again. First and foremost, prevent danger to the airplane (ex: explosives) and keep the cockpit safe from hijacking. And secondly, ascertain no weapons for the safety of everyone behind the cockpit door.
How does putting pilots through a metal detector and bag scanner further these goals? Their hands are the ultimate weapons. Many of them are armed with guns. And each cockpit has an axe it! So we can trust them with weapons and full control of the jet..but the butter knife or mini-scissors in their toiletry bag is the real threat.
If it's about drug trafficking (and not air safety)..all pilots still pass through CBP for international routing. Is inter-domestic trafficking a real concern? Are cavity searches next?
santi319 wrote:Well didn’t FA and Pilots went thru security FOR YEARS before KCM was crated? I don’t get the big deal. Just get them a dedicated metal detector and Xray machine and voila..
Moosefire wrote:santi319 wrote:Well didn’t FA and Pilots went thru security FOR YEARS before KCM was crated? I don’t get the big deal. Just get them a dedicated metal detector and Xray machine and voila..
But there won’t be a dedicated line (maybe at some superhubs). Everyone a trip to security just got longer. Enjoy the crews constantly cutting to the front of the line!
flycmh2009 wrote:My bet is, if TSA takes over the screening process, it'll take only a few weeks of hundreds of crew members being late for trips and forcing delays before the airlines (and ALPA etc) go to TSA and show them what their new "program" is doing to operations. The traveling public doesn't need to see even more unreliability in airline operations right now.The offenders should have lost their KCM privileges, and possibly their jobs, and allowed the rest of us to retain the benefit. KCM is a PRIVELGE.
Boeing757100 wrote:Will this not bring more delays in the future? We already have delays/cancellations due to a lack of crew, but if the remaining crew have their turnaround time sapped up waiting in TSA, will this not make delays worse?
alasizon wrote:Personally, I hope whatever new program they put in place simply results in a dedicated airline employee lane at the checkpoint. Realistically, it doesn't take a big difference in time comparing KCM to putting your bags on the belt with only fellow employees in front/behind you. It is waiting for ID checks and regular passengers who aren't familiar with pre-check that take forever.
dmg626 wrote:It should have been pilots only. Flight attendants can go to front of pre check line. Any dumb ass pilot that violated ruled should be banned for life!
sadde wrote:Lol. Increase random rate, cite increased violations to justify program shutdown. Just another day in the life for the bureaucrats that run our lives!
chrisair wrote:alasizon wrote:Personally, I hope whatever new program they put in place simply results in a dedicated airline employee lane at the checkpoint. Realistically, it doesn't take a big difference in time comparing KCM to putting your bags on the belt with only fellow employees in front/behind you. It is waiting for ID checks and regular passengers who aren't familiar with pre-check that take forever.
Your fellow PHX AA/Piedmont employees who feel it’s their right to cut in front of the entire x-ray line at the B checkpoint don’t get sympathy from me. Wait your turn like the rest of us, or at least ask before moving someone’s bags.
Before KCM, a lot of the airports I was frequenting would open a separate x-ray machine when large numbers of crew would show up.
vhtje wrote:What happens in other countries with large domestic operations? In Australia, for example, don’t airline employees use the premium security lines, i.e. still get fully screened, albeit expeditiously?
ASFlyer wrote:dmg626 wrote:It should have been pilots only. Flight attendants can go to front of pre check line. Any dumb ass pilot that violated ruled should be banned for life!
why should it be pilots only? The plane isn't going anywhere without FA's either. Is it because pilots shouldn't be inconvenienced but FA's don't matter? Are pilots better people?
vhtje wrote:What happens in other countries with large domestic operations? In Australia, for example, don’t airline employees use the premium security lines, i.e. still get fully screened, albeit expeditiously?
ASFlyer wrote:dmg626 wrote:It should have been pilots only. Flight attendants can go to front of pre check line. Any dumb ass pilot that violated ruled should be banned for life!
why should it be pilots only? The plane isn't going anywhere without FA's either. Is it because pilots shouldn't be inconvenienced but FA's don't matter? Are pilots better people?
Phosphorus wrote:A terrorist could het a pilot to smuggle knives, etc through security and hand those off to a "clean", thoroughly checked passenger, who in turn hijacks a plane with those weapons.ASFlyer wrote:dmg626 wrote:It should have been pilots only. Flight attendants can go to front of pre check line. Any dumb ass pilot that violated ruled should be banned for life!
why should it be pilots only? The plane isn't going anywhere without FA's either. Is it because pilots shouldn't be inconvenienced but FA's don't matter? Are pilots better people?
Well, if you look at SECURITY part of TSA name, the job of TSA screening is to provide security.
Upthread someone alleged that checking pilots, whether they have longer than permitted scissors -- so they could try to murder someone in flight and take over the airplane -- is kinda silly.
They already ARE flying the airplane. Some are allowed to carry guns onboard, and all have access to an axe.
Just exactly what is the point of checking them, other than ensuring that they are the person they claim to be (and that they are fit to fly, but that's probably beyond TSA remit)? What gain in Security do you anticipate, by forcing pilots into a line, to have their underpants checked?
The fact that FA's are needed for a flight is true, but a separate, albeit parallel matter, don't you agree?
Eikie wrote:Phosphorus wrote:A terrorist could het a pilot to smuggle knives, etc through security and hand those off to a "clean", thoroughly checked passenger, who in turn hijacks a plane with those weapons.ASFlyer wrote:
why should it be pilots only? The plane isn't going anywhere without FA's either. Is it because pilots shouldn't be inconvenienced but FA's don't matter? Are pilots better people?
Well, if you look at SECURITY part of TSA name, the job of TSA screening is to provide security.
Upthread someone alleged that checking pilots, whether they have longer than permitted scissors -- so they could try to murder someone in flight and take over the airplane -- is kinda silly.
They already ARE flying the airplane. Some are allowed to carry guns onboard, and all have access to an axe.
Just exactly what is the point of checking them, other than ensuring that they are the person they claim to be (and that they are fit to fly, but that's probably beyond TSA remit)? What gain in Security do you anticipate, by forcing pilots into a line, to have their underpants checked?
The fact that FA's are needed for a flight is true, but a separate, albeit parallel matter, don't you agree?
If crewmembers aren't checked, its an easy way in and relatively used often for other things like drugs (especially FA's are vulnerable to threaths and extortion in some countries).
Eikie wrote:Phosphorus wrote:A terrorist could het a pilot to smuggle knives, etc through security and hand those off to a "clean", thoroughly checked passenger, who in turn hijacks a plane with those weapons.ASFlyer wrote:
why should it be pilots only? The plane isn't going anywhere without FA's either. Is it because pilots shouldn't be inconvenienced but FA's don't matter? Are pilots better people?
Well, if you look at SECURITY part of TSA name, the job of TSA screening is to provide security.
Upthread someone alleged that checking pilots, whether they have longer than permitted scissors -- so they could try to murder someone in flight and take over the airplane -- is kinda silly.
They already ARE flying the airplane. Some are allowed to carry guns onboard, and all have access to an axe.
Just exactly what is the point of checking them, other than ensuring that they are the person they claim to be (and that they are fit to fly, but that's probably beyond TSA remit)? What gain in Security do you anticipate, by forcing pilots into a line, to have their underpants checked?
The fact that FA's are needed for a flight is true, but a separate, albeit parallel matter, don't you agree?
If crewmembers aren't checked, its an easy way in and relatively used often for other things like drugs (especially FA's are vulnerable to threaths and extortion in some countries).
chasensfo wrote:chrisair wrote:alasizon wrote:Personally, I hope whatever new program they put in place simply results in a dedicated airline employee lane at the checkpoint. Realistically, it doesn't take a big difference in time comparing KCM to putting your bags on the belt with only fellow employees in front/behind you. It is waiting for ID checks and regular passengers who aren't familiar with pre-check that take forever.
Your fellow PHX AA/Piedmont employees who feel it’s their right to cut in front of the entire x-ray line at the B checkpoint don’t get sympathy from me. Wait your turn like the rest of us, or at least ask before moving someone’s bags.
Before KCM, a lot of the airports I was frequenting would open a separate x-ray machine when large numbers of crew would show up.
They're at work. People get privileges at their workplace that the public does not. The airport vets them with recurring background checks, as does the government. They also have to exit and re-enter security over and over in some cases where there is no alternative. They are not "like the rest of you" at an airport. Every airport I've ever worked at or traveled through often moves employees ahead of all passengers unless for some reason they want to line up like a weirdo.
vhtje wrote:What happens in other countries with large domestic operations? In Australia, for example, don’t airline employees use the premium security lines, i.e. still get fully screened, albeit expeditiously?
barney captain wrote:ASFlyer wrote:dmg626 wrote:It should have been pilots only. Flight attendants can go to front of pre check line. Any dumb ass pilot that violated ruled should be banned for life!
why should it be pilots only? The plane isn't going anywhere without FA's either. Is it because pilots shouldn't be inconvenienced but FA's don't matter? Are pilots better people?
Seriously?
Who in the hell is in command of the aircraft? It isn't he FA's.
Chasensfo wrote:They are not "like the rest of you" at an airport. Every airport I've ever worked at or traveled through often moves employees ahead of all passengers unless for some reason they want to line up like a weirdo.
Vicenza wrote:Chasensfo wrote:They are not "like the rest of you" at an airport. Every airport I've ever worked at or traveled through often moves employees ahead of all passengers unless for some reason they want to line up like a weirdo.
They are exactly like "the rest of you" and everyone else. They are no better in any respect whatsoever except in their own minds, and to many here. Your last sentence sums it up completely....everyone else who lines up is "a weirdo" (a bit like the famous quote 'only the little people pay taxes'.)
vhtje wrote:What happens in other countries with large domestic operations? In Australia, for example, don’t airline employees use the premium security lines, i.e. still get fully screened, albeit expeditiously?
USAirALB wrote:The article mentions a case where a FA brought meth through KCM as one of the reasons KCM is being retired in favor of a TSA-run program.
I'm not condoning the FA's behavior (and I believe they should be prosecuted in accordance with the law) but what business is it to TSA if someone is bringing illicit drugs through a checkpoint? TSOs aren't supposed to search for drugs...
alasizon wrote:Personally, I hope whatever new program they put in place simply results in a dedicated airline employee lane at the checkpoint. Realistically, it doesn't take a big difference in time comparing KCM to putting your bags on the belt with only fellow employees in front/behind you. It is waiting for ID checks and regular passengers who aren't familiar with pre-check that take forever.
kitplane01 wrote:I'm curious what the argument is that flight attendents should get faster screening than other people flying for business purposes?
(Yes, I realize that the plane cannot fly without either crew or passengers.)
kitplane01 wrote:crew members have rest requirements and may only show up to the airport an hour before the flight. Do you want to force your crew to wake up even earlier and be even more tired? Passengers don’t have rest requirementsalasizon wrote:Personally, I hope whatever new program they put in place simply results in a dedicated airline employee lane at the checkpoint. Realistically, it doesn't take a big difference in time comparing KCM to putting your bags on the belt with only fellow employees in front/behind you. It is waiting for ID checks and regular passengers who aren't familiar with pre-check that take forever.
I'm curious what the argument is that flight attendents should get faster screening than other people flying for business purposes?
(Yes, I realize that the plane cannot fly without either crew or passengers.)
kitplane01 wrote:USAirALB wrote:The article mentions a case where a FA brought meth through KCM as one of the reasons KCM is being retired in favor of a TSA-run program.
I'm not condoning the FA's behavior (and I believe they should be prosecuted in accordance with the law) but what business is it to TSA if someone is bringing illicit drugs through a checkpoint? TSOs aren't supposed to search for drugs...
Is the claim the TSA should ignore meth? Would you feel the same way about child porn or guns or virii that they happen to discover?
USAirALB wrote:kitplane01 wrote:USAirALB wrote:The article mentions a case where a FA brought meth through KCM as one of the reasons KCM is being retired in favor of a TSA-run program.
I'm not condoning the FA's behavior (and I believe they should be prosecuted in accordance with the law) but what business is it to TSA if someone is bringing illicit drugs through a checkpoint? TSOs aren't supposed to search for drugs...
Is the claim the TSA should ignore meth? Would you feel the same way about child porn or guns or virii that they happen to discover?
Someone carrying meth onboard an aircraft is not a concern to the physical safety and security of the flight.
TSA isn't the DEA or local law enforcement. Their role is strictly to screen for items that pose a risk to flight safety. Looking for anything else in my eyes is massive government overreach, and that says a lot for someone who most on this forum would probably classify as a big-government socialist.
FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:USAirALB wrote:kitplane01 wrote:
Is the claim the TSA should ignore meth? Would you feel the same way about child porn or guns or virii that they happen to discover?
Someone carrying meth onboard an aircraft is not a concern to the physical safety and security of the flight.
TSA isn't the DEA or local law enforcement. Their role is strictly to screen for items that pose a risk to flight safety. Looking for anything else in my eyes is massive government overreach, and that says a lot for someone who most on this forum would probably classify as a big-government socialist.
TSA does care about transporting illegal drugs across various state lines. I remember on several occasions where TSA in DFW would call DPS and have some poor guy hauled off to jail in handcuffs for a single joint in his bag. So yea the TSA does care.
santi319 wrote:FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:USAirALB wrote:Someone carrying meth onboard an aircraft is not a concern to the physical safety and security of the flight.
TSA isn't the DEA or local law enforcement. Their role is strictly to screen for items that pose a risk to flight safety. Looking for anything else in my eyes is massive government overreach, and that says a lot for someone who most on this forum would probably classify as a big-government socialist.
TSA does care about transporting illegal drugs across various state lines. I remember on several occasions where TSA in DFW would call DPS and have some poor guy hauled off to jail in handcuffs for a single joint in his bag. So yea the TSA does care.
Wrong, TSA is not trained to screen for narcotics. If they come upon one, a LEO can be contacted, but they are not trained for that specific issue…
https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-scr ... -marijuana