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Italianflyer
Topic Author
Posts: 865
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:06 pm

Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Tue Nov 29, 2022 6:21 pm

I figured it was too good to last and sure enough, a few bad apples ruined it for the rest of us. Who knows what fresh hell TSA will implement in 2023 but I guess I'll be leaving an extra hour early for my trips.

https://simpleflying.com/tsa-take-over- ... creenings/
 
floridaflyboy
Posts: 1747
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:26 pm

Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Tue Nov 29, 2022 6:47 pm

That's really sad. It was a good program. But, you're exactly right, a few bad apples ruined it. I remember when I was working as a flight attendant, there were a lot of people who would refuse to follow the rules when it came to KCM (using it for personal international travel, taking liquids through for fellow travelers who don't qualify for KCM, etc.). It came around to bite not just those people, but all crewmembers in the backside. Real shame the consequences couldn't have been more focused toward the offenders. But I get, with as many crewmembers as we have in the US, that would be a very tall order.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 3238
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Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:25 pm

The article mentions a case where a FA brought meth through KCM as one of the reasons KCM is being retired in favor of a TSA-run program.

I'm not condoning the FA's behavior (and I believe they should be prosecuted in accordance with the law) but what business is it to TSA if someone is bringing illicit drugs through a checkpoint? TSOs aren't supposed to search for drugs...
 
n797mx
Posts: 552
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Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:34 pm

floridaflyboy wrote:
taking liquids through for fellow travelers who don't qualify for KCM

Wine. I know lots that take excessive amounts of wine through KCM.

:duck:
 
floridaflyboy
Posts: 1747
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:26 pm

Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:39 pm

USAirALB wrote:
The article mentions a case where a FA brought meth through KCM as one of the reasons KCM is being retired in favor of a TSA-run program.

I'm not condoning the FA's behavior (and I believe they should be prosecuted in accordance with the law) but what business is it to TSA if someone is bringing illicit drugs through a checkpoint? TSOs aren't supposed to search for drugs...


You're exactly right. But if they do find them during a search/random/whatever, they are obligated to report it to the LEOs at the security checkpoint. I'm sure it's just one more piece in the puzzle as to why this decision was made, not the primary reason for the decision itself.
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 2062
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:09 pm

n797mx wrote:
floridaflyboy wrote:
taking liquids through for fellow travelers who don't qualify for KCM

Wine. I know lots that take excessive amounts of wine through KCM.

:duck:


what's excessive amounts of wine? And for whatever it's worth, crew can bring liquids through security - including wine. They could pack their entire suitcase with wine and it would be perfectly fine if it's their own wine and not for someone else.

It's a shame that some crew members have ruined this privilege for the rest. KCM was a game changer and will be missed if it, indeed, goes away.
 
alasizon
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Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:12 pm

Personally, I hope whatever new program they put in place simply results in a dedicated airline employee lane at the checkpoint. Realistically, it doesn't take a big difference in time comparing KCM to putting your bags on the belt with only fellow employees in front/behind you. It is waiting for ID checks and regular passengers who aren't familiar with pre-check that take forever.
 
floridaflyboy
Posts: 1747
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:26 pm

Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:20 pm

alasizon wrote:
Personally, I hope whatever new program they put in place simply results in a dedicated airline employee lane at the checkpoint. Realistically, it doesn't take a big difference in time comparing KCM to putting your bags on the belt with only fellow employees in front/behind you. It is waiting for ID checks and regular passengers who aren't familiar with pre-check that take forever.


Back when I was a MSP-based FA, we had an employee-only checkpoint in the Lindbergh Terminal. It was fantastic. Even with taking off my shoes (2008), I could sail through there faster than KCM in my later days.
 
TWFlyGuy
Posts: 575
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Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:22 pm

USAirALB wrote:
The article mentions a case where a FA brought meth through KCM as one of the reasons KCM is being retired in favor of a TSA-run program.

I'm not condoning the FA's behavior (and I believe they should be prosecuted in accordance with the law) but what business is it to TSA if someone is bringing illicit drugs through a checkpoint? TSOs aren't supposed to search for drugs...


Well their either had enough to be considered trafficking which anyone passing through TSA would be pulled aside for or they had some to use which would be an endangerment to passengers or they were off duty and abusing the priveledge of using that checkpoint. Under any of those scenarios it is absolutely TSAs duty and right to catch and report them.
 
Italianflyer
Topic Author
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Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:26 pm

floridaflyboy wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Personally, I hope whatever new program they put in place simply results in a dedicated airline employee lane at the checkpoint. Realistically, it doesn't take a big difference in time comparing KCM to putting your bags on the belt...

Back when I was a MSP-based FA, we had an employee-only checkpoint in the Lindbergh Terminal. It was fantastic. Even with taking off my shoes (2008), I could sail through there faster than KCM in my later days.


I loved it too! (Was also MSP based for a while).
Problem is that TSA can't even staff Pre-check lanes at 5pm on a Tuesday. I think we all know the employee only line will be at the bottom of the priority list.
 
Cactusjuba
Posts: 379
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Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:41 pm

I don't buy it. Sorry. The TSA just wants to dissolve of the program, and are using a micro sized number of offenders as scapegoats. What is the purpose of security screening? Anyone? Isn't it about safety? In light of September 11th, the TSA was formed to prevent something like that from occuring again. First and foremost, prevent danger to the airplane (ex: explosives) and keep the cockpit safe from hijacking. And secondly, ascertain no weapons for the safety of everyone behind the cockpit door.

How does putting pilots through a metal detector and bag scanner further these goals? Their hands are the ultimate weapons. Many of them are armed with guns. And each cockpit has an axe it! So we can trust them with weapons and full control of the jet..but the butter knife or mini-scissors in their toiletry bag is the real threat.

If it's about drug trafficking (and not air safety)..all pilots still pass through CBP for international routing. Is inter-domestic trafficking a real concern? Are cavity searches next? :wink2:
 
kabq737
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Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:23 pm

Cactusjuba wrote:
I don't buy it. Sorry. The TSA just wants to dissolve of the program, and are using a micro sized number of offenders as scapegoats. What is the purpose of security screening? Anyone? Isn't it about safety? In light of September 11th, the TSA was formed to prevent something like that from occuring again. First and foremost, prevent danger to the airplane (ex: explosives) and keep the cockpit safe from hijacking. And secondly, ascertain no weapons for the safety of everyone behind the cockpit door.

How does putting pilots through a metal detector and bag scanner further these goals? Their hands are the ultimate weapons. Many of them are armed with guns. And each cockpit has an axe it! So we can trust them with weapons and full control of the jet..but the butter knife or mini-scissors in their toiletry bag is the real threat.

If it's about drug trafficking (and not air safety)..all pilots still pass through CBP for international routing. Is inter-domestic trafficking a real concern? Are cavity searches next? :wink2:

Agree 110%. In my opinion this is just another clear and obvious example of the TSAs incompetence as an organization. Nothing will be gained from this but it will add more time away from family for crews at home base and take time away from rest on layovers. I don’t believe for a second they’ll have a fast or efficient replacement program.
 
flycmh2009
Posts: 59
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Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:58 pm

My bet is, if TSA takes over the screening process, it'll take only a few weeks of hundreds of crew members being late for trips and forcing delays before the airlines (and ALPA etc) go to TSA and show them what their new "program" is doing to operations. The traveling public doesn't need to see even more unreliability in airline operations right now.The offenders should have lost their KCM privileges, and possibly their jobs, and allowed the rest of us to retain the benefit. KCM is a PRIVELGE.
 
sadde
Posts: 50
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Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:25 am

Lol. Increase random rate, cite increased violations to justify program shutdown. Just another day in the life for the bureaucrats that run our lives!
 
airtran737
Posts: 3538
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Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:37 am

I have a feeling applications for a trip to Artesia are about to spike.
 
FLYFIRSTCLASS
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Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:48 am

So will there KCM specific checkpoints close as well? Will they will have to go through regular TSA screening like everyone else? I could just see angry crew members standing at the end of long lines and being late to their airplane and say "well its TSA!"
 
dmg626
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Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:58 am

It should have been pilots only. Flight attendants can go to front of pre check line. Any dumb ass pilot that violated ruled should be banned for life!
 
santi319
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Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 2:49 am

Well didn’t FA and Pilots went thru security FOR YEARS before KCM was crated? I don’t get the big deal. Just get them a dedicated metal detector and Xray machine and voila..
 
Moosefire
Posts: 219
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Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:02 am

santi319 wrote:
Well didn’t FA and Pilots went thru security FOR YEARS before KCM was crated? I don’t get the big deal. Just get them a dedicated metal detector and Xray machine and voila..


But there won’t be a dedicated line (maybe at some superhubs). Everyone a trip to security just got longer. Enjoy the crews constantly cutting to the front of the line!
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:04 am

Moosefire wrote:
santi319 wrote:
Well didn’t FA and Pilots went thru security FOR YEARS before KCM was crated? I don’t get the big deal. Just get them a dedicated metal detector and Xray machine and voila..


But there won’t be a dedicated line (maybe at some superhubs). Everyone a trip to security just got longer. Enjoy the crews constantly cutting to the front of the line!



Yep this was the issue. Crews to the front of the line. I never cared about going through security but it sucked getting to the front of the line and all the passengers giving us nasty looks.
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:04 am

Will this not bring more delays in the future? We already have delays/cancellations due to a lack of crew, but if the remaining crew have their turnaround time sapped up waiting in TSA, will this not make delays worse?
 
kiowa
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Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:44 am

flycmh2009 wrote:
My bet is, if TSA takes over the screening process, it'll take only a few weeks of hundreds of crew members being late for trips and forcing delays before the airlines (and ALPA etc) go to TSA and show them what their new "program" is doing to operations. The traveling public doesn't need to see even more unreliability in airline operations right now.The offenders should have lost their KCM privileges, and possibly their jobs, and allowed the rest of us to retain the benefit. KCM is a PRIVELGE.


Doesn't the TSA already do KCM? So will changing the name of the program make people safer? Maybe just make penalties more severe for those who get caught.
 
alasizon
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Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:44 am

Boeing757100 wrote:
Will this not bring more delays in the future? We already have delays/cancellations due to a lack of crew, but if the remaining crew have their turnaround time sapped up waiting in TSA, will this not make delays worse?


Since nobody knows what the new program is, its hard to say whether it will add additional time or not.
 
chrisair
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Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:20 am

alasizon wrote:
Personally, I hope whatever new program they put in place simply results in a dedicated airline employee lane at the checkpoint. Realistically, it doesn't take a big difference in time comparing KCM to putting your bags on the belt with only fellow employees in front/behind you. It is waiting for ID checks and regular passengers who aren't familiar with pre-check that take forever.


Your fellow PHX AA/Piedmont employees who feel it’s their right to cut in front of the entire x-ray line at the B checkpoint don’t get sympathy from me. Wait your turn like the rest of us, or at least ask before moving someone’s bags.

Before KCM, a lot of the airports I was frequenting would open a separate x-ray machine when large numbers of crew would show up.
 
ASFlyer
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Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:56 am

dmg626 wrote:
It should have been pilots only. Flight attendants can go to front of pre check line. Any dumb ass pilot that violated ruled should be banned for life!


why should it be pilots only? The plane isn't going anywhere without FA's either. Is it because pilots shouldn't be inconvenienced but FA's don't matter? Are pilots better people?
 
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Chasensfo
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Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:35 am

sadde wrote:
Lol. Increase random rate, cite increased violations to justify program shutdown. Just another day in the life for the bureaucrats that run our lives!

Exactly. Exactly.

chrisair wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Personally, I hope whatever new program they put in place simply results in a dedicated airline employee lane at the checkpoint. Realistically, it doesn't take a big difference in time comparing KCM to putting your bags on the belt with only fellow employees in front/behind you. It is waiting for ID checks and regular passengers who aren't familiar with pre-check that take forever.


Your fellow PHX AA/Piedmont employees who feel it’s their right to cut in front of the entire x-ray line at the B checkpoint don’t get sympathy from me. Wait your turn like the rest of us, or at least ask before moving someone’s bags.

Before KCM, a lot of the airports I was frequenting would open a separate x-ray machine when large numbers of crew would show up.

They're at work. People get privileges at their workplace that the public does not. The airport vets them with recurring background checks, as does the government. They also have to exit and re-enter security over and over in some cases where there is no alternative. They are not "like the rest of you" at an airport. Every airport I've ever worked at or traveled through often moves employees ahead of all passengers unless for some reason they want to line up like a weirdo.
 
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vhtje
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Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:50 am

What happens in other countries with large domestic operations? In Australia, for example, don’t airline employees use the premium security lines, i.e. still get fully screened, albeit expeditiously?
 
hpff
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Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:01 am

vhtje wrote:
What happens in other countries with large domestic operations? In Australia, for example, don’t airline employees use the premium security lines, i.e. still get fully screened, albeit expeditiously?


You can still rock up 15 minutes before an Aussie domestic flight, though. I had a near panic attack when work dropped me off 20 minutes before PER-MEL flight my first time out there and I had 15 minutes to myself at the gate. Not as much of an issue, at least pre covid
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:14 am

ASFlyer wrote:
dmg626 wrote:
It should have been pilots only. Flight attendants can go to front of pre check line. Any dumb ass pilot that violated ruled should be banned for life!


why should it be pilots only? The plane isn't going anywhere without FA's either. Is it because pilots shouldn't be inconvenienced but FA's don't matter? Are pilots better people?

Well, if you look at SECURITY part of TSA name, the job of TSA screening is to provide security.
Upthread someone alleged that checking pilots, whether they have longer than permitted scissors -- so they could try to murder someone in flight and take over the airplane -- is kinda silly.
They already ARE flying the airplane. Some are allowed to carry guns onboard, and all have access to an axe.

Just exactly what is the point of checking them, other than ensuring that they are the person they claim to be (and that they are fit to fly, but that's probably beyond TSA remit)? What gain in Security do you anticipate, by forcing pilots into a line, to have their underpants checked?

The fact that FA's are needed for a flight is true, but a separate, albeit parallel matter, don't you agree?
 
jomur
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Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:36 am

vhtje wrote:
What happens in other countries with large domestic operations? In Australia, for example, don’t airline employees use the premium security lines, i.e. still get fully screened, albeit expeditiously?


In the UK everyone who goes airside goes through the full security checks exactly the same as what a passenger would go through, although airport staff and airline crew do usually use separate staff lanes.
 
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barney captain
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Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:53 am

ASFlyer wrote:
dmg626 wrote:
It should have been pilots only. Flight attendants can go to front of pre check line. Any dumb ass pilot that violated ruled should be banned for life!


why should it be pilots only? The plane isn't going anywhere without FA's either. Is it because pilots shouldn't be inconvenienced but FA's don't matter? Are pilots better people?


Seriously?

Who in the hell is in command of the aircraft? It isn't he FA's.
 
Eikie
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Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:46 am

Phosphorus wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
dmg626 wrote:
It should have been pilots only. Flight attendants can go to front of pre check line. Any dumb ass pilot that violated ruled should be banned for life!


why should it be pilots only? The plane isn't going anywhere without FA's either. Is it because pilots shouldn't be inconvenienced but FA's don't matter? Are pilots better people?

Well, if you look at SECURITY part of TSA name, the job of TSA screening is to provide security.
Upthread someone alleged that checking pilots, whether they have longer than permitted scissors -- so they could try to murder someone in flight and take over the airplane -- is kinda silly.
They already ARE flying the airplane. Some are allowed to carry guns onboard, and all have access to an axe.

Just exactly what is the point of checking them, other than ensuring that they are the person they claim to be (and that they are fit to fly, but that's probably beyond TSA remit)? What gain in Security do you anticipate, by forcing pilots into a line, to have their underpants checked?

The fact that FA's are needed for a flight is true, but a separate, albeit parallel matter, don't you agree?
A terrorist could het a pilot to smuggle knives, etc through security and hand those off to a "clean", thoroughly checked passenger, who in turn hijacks a plane with those weapons.

If crewmembers aren't checked, its an easy way in and relatively used often for other things like drugs (especially FA's are vulnerable to threaths and extortion in some countries).
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:33 pm

Eikie wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:

why should it be pilots only? The plane isn't going anywhere without FA's either. Is it because pilots shouldn't be inconvenienced but FA's don't matter? Are pilots better people?

Well, if you look at SECURITY part of TSA name, the job of TSA screening is to provide security.
Upthread someone alleged that checking pilots, whether they have longer than permitted scissors -- so they could try to murder someone in flight and take over the airplane -- is kinda silly.
They already ARE flying the airplane. Some are allowed to carry guns onboard, and all have access to an axe.

Just exactly what is the point of checking them, other than ensuring that they are the person they claim to be (and that they are fit to fly, but that's probably beyond TSA remit)? What gain in Security do you anticipate, by forcing pilots into a line, to have their underpants checked?

The fact that FA's are needed for a flight is true, but a separate, albeit parallel matter, don't you agree?
A terrorist could het a pilot to smuggle knives, etc through security and hand those off to a "clean", thoroughly checked passenger, who in turn hijacks a plane with those weapons.

If crewmembers aren't checked, its an easy way in and relatively used often for other things like drugs (especially FA's are vulnerable to threaths and extortion in some countries).

a two-step procedure to hijack a plane, where a pilot is smuggling a knife, that'll be put against their throat? Well, never an impossibility, but if a pilot is compromised to a degree, where they smuggle weapons to be used against them for a hijack, then the problem is bigger than just catching a knife in a pilot's bag, no?

Drug enforcement -- is this TSA's mandate? I mean, if that's the idea, why isn't it legislated this way?
 
BBDFlyer
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:14 pm

Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:38 pm

Eikie wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:

why should it be pilots only? The plane isn't going anywhere without FA's either. Is it because pilots shouldn't be inconvenienced but FA's don't matter? Are pilots better people?

Well, if you look at SECURITY part of TSA name, the job of TSA screening is to provide security.
Upthread someone alleged that checking pilots, whether they have longer than permitted scissors -- so they could try to murder someone in flight and take over the airplane -- is kinda silly.
They already ARE flying the airplane. Some are allowed to carry guns onboard, and all have access to an axe.

Just exactly what is the point of checking them, other than ensuring that they are the person they claim to be (and that they are fit to fly, but that's probably beyond TSA remit)? What gain in Security do you anticipate, by forcing pilots into a line, to have their underpants checked?

The fact that FA's are needed for a flight is true, but a separate, albeit parallel matter, don't you agree?
A terrorist could het a pilot to smuggle knives, etc through security and hand those off to a "clean", thoroughly checked passenger, who in turn hijacks a plane with those weapons.

If crewmembers aren't checked, its an easy way in and relatively used often for other things like drugs (especially FA's are vulnerable to threaths and extortion in some countries).

It is against KCM rules to bring in objects for somebody else.

Joking aside, you're right but countless rampers and gate agents could also bring in knives unchecked.

The knowncrewmember program was based on the premise that the crewmembers have all passed background checks and are trusted.
 
Sancho99504
Posts: 892
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:44 pm

Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:26 pm

It's amazing the level of fear that the government and associated bureaucracies have instilled into the general public. It's disappointing how one can defend the TSA 20 years after inception when they can't do the job they were created for.

The percentage of banned contraband that makes it thru TSA operated checkpoints is enough that if it were a private entity, wholesale changes would have been made years ago or they would've been shutdown. Test after test shows that 90% of banned items make it thru, including explosives, weapons and other non-lethal items.
Liquids over 3.4oz were banned because of "a terrorist plot" which seems more like conjecture than anything else. A quart sized ziploc filled with tunes of explosives is all that's needed to bring an airplane down.

It's a psychological control program, nothing more, nothing less.
 
alasizon
Posts: 3534
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:07 pm

chasensfo wrote:
chrisair wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Personally, I hope whatever new program they put in place simply results in a dedicated airline employee lane at the checkpoint. Realistically, it doesn't take a big difference in time comparing KCM to putting your bags on the belt with only fellow employees in front/behind you. It is waiting for ID checks and regular passengers who aren't familiar with pre-check that take forever.


Your fellow PHX AA/Piedmont employees who feel it’s their right to cut in front of the entire x-ray line at the B checkpoint don’t get sympathy from me. Wait your turn like the rest of us, or at least ask before moving someone’s bags.

Before KCM, a lot of the airports I was frequenting would open a separate x-ray machine when large numbers of crew would show up.

They're at work. People get privileges at their workplace that the public does not. The airport vets them with recurring background checks, as does the government. They also have to exit and re-enter security over and over in some cases where there is no alternative. They are not "like the rest of you" at an airport. Every airport I've ever worked at or traveled through often moves employees ahead of all passengers unless for some reason they want to line up like a weirdo.


Not to get too off-topic, but in PHX that is actually against airport R&Rs for pre-check, hence the complaint.

Employees are allowed to move in front of passengers at regular lanes but not pre-check lanes. It drives me up a wall when a fellow employee goes and cuts off several passengers in pre-check and doesn't even say a word to them, just steps in front of them (which happens a lot). Personally I have no problem with standing in line waiting for the few passengers in front of me to put their stuff on the belt and go every single day I come into work. If there happened to be a KCM random behind me I always let them go in front of me as a simple gesture to help get them going a little faster (the number of crew members coming from home through KCM at D-40 is sometimes ridiculous).

Hence why I'm hoping part of their solution is simply an airline employee only lane, it stops that disrespect for passengers from happening (to be clear I have no problem if crew members/employees actually ask but when they just step in front of people it is rude) and the security standards and allowances are basically the same for crew members and station employees already (in terms of allowed items). In hubs if it was an automated lane that would be even better because then even if an employee did have to take stuff out they wouldn't hold up the line at all.
 
Airontario
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Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:26 pm

vhtje wrote:
What happens in other countries with large domestic operations? In Australia, for example, don’t airline employees use the premium security lines, i.e. still get fully screened, albeit expeditiously?


In Canada, at major airports, all employees with access to the secure area, have a separate entrance. When employees pass through, they scan their access card and use biometrics (iris or fingerprint). They are then randomly selected to go through the metal detector and x ray machine. It tends to be a 50/50 chance of being check in my experience.
 
ASFlyer
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Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:28 pm

barney captain wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
dmg626 wrote:
It should have been pilots only. Flight attendants can go to front of pre check line. Any dumb ass pilot that violated ruled should be banned for life!


why should it be pilots only? The plane isn't going anywhere without FA's either. Is it because pilots shouldn't be inconvenienced but FA's don't matter? Are pilots better people?


Seriously?

Who in the hell is in command of the aircraft? It isn't he FA's.


That doesn’t answer any of the questions. The plane still doesn’t go anywhere without the FA’S. Regardless of the pilots being there.
 
Vicenza
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Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:43 pm

Chasensfo wrote:
They are not "like the rest of you" at an airport. Every airport I've ever worked at or traveled through often moves employees ahead of all passengers unless for some reason they want to line up like a weirdo.


They are exactly like "the rest of you" and everyone else. They are no better in any respect whatsoever except in their own minds, and to many here. Your last sentence sums it up completely....everyone else who lines up is "a weirdo" (a bit like the famous quote 'only the little people pay taxes'.)
 
santi319
Posts: 1483
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:24 pm

Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:53 pm

Vicenza wrote:
Chasensfo wrote:
They are not "like the rest of you" at an airport. Every airport I've ever worked at or traveled through often moves employees ahead of all passengers unless for some reason they want to line up like a weirdo.


They are exactly like "the rest of you" and everyone else. They are no better in any respect whatsoever except in their own minds, and to many here. Your last sentence sums it up completely....everyone else who lines up is "a weirdo" (a bit like the famous quote 'only the little people pay taxes'.)


You all do realize the planes won’t move without the employees, so sending them to the back of the line is only going to delay you lol. They literally work there and the passengers don’t….

Loool you can’t make this up..
 
redroo
Posts: 664
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:28 pm

Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:12 pm

vhtje wrote:
What happens in other countries with large domestic operations? In Australia, for example, don’t airline employees use the premium security lines, i.e. still get fully screened, albeit expeditiously?


I noticed Sydney had installed crew lane down the middle of the premium and non premium lines. Took the crew straight to the machines. They then got processed like everyone else.
 
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kitplane01
Posts: 2662
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:58 am

Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:17 pm

USAirALB wrote:
The article mentions a case where a FA brought meth through KCM as one of the reasons KCM is being retired in favor of a TSA-run program.

I'm not condoning the FA's behavior (and I believe they should be prosecuted in accordance with the law) but what business is it to TSA if someone is bringing illicit drugs through a checkpoint? TSOs aren't supposed to search for drugs...


Is the claim the TSA should ignore meth? Would you feel the same way about child porn or guns or virii that they happen to discover?
 
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kitplane01
Posts: 2662
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:58 am

Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:18 pm

alasizon wrote:
Personally, I hope whatever new program they put in place simply results in a dedicated airline employee lane at the checkpoint. Realistically, it doesn't take a big difference in time comparing KCM to putting your bags on the belt with only fellow employees in front/behind you. It is waiting for ID checks and regular passengers who aren't familiar with pre-check that take forever.


I'm curious what the argument is that flight attendents should get faster screening than other people flying for business purposes?

(Yes, I realize that the plane cannot fly without either crew or passengers.)
 
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PA110
Posts: 2013
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:35 pm

kitplane01 wrote:
I'm curious what the argument is that flight attendents should get faster screening than other people flying for business purposes?

(Yes, I realize that the plane cannot fly without either crew or passengers.)


The plane cannot fly with missing crew members. It can fly perfectly well with missing passengers. What is the point of having special background checks and badging for crew members, if they have to still be screened with the great unwashed masses? Theyʻre part of the infrastructure. Without them, there is no point in showing up.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 6407
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:49 pm

kitplane01 wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Personally, I hope whatever new program they put in place simply results in a dedicated airline employee lane at the checkpoint. Realistically, it doesn't take a big difference in time comparing KCM to putting your bags on the belt with only fellow employees in front/behind you. It is waiting for ID checks and regular passengers who aren't familiar with pre-check that take forever.


I'm curious what the argument is that flight attendents should get faster screening than other people flying for business purposes?

(Yes, I realize that the plane cannot fly without either crew or passengers.)
crew members have rest requirements and may only show up to the airport an hour before the flight. Do you want to force your crew to wake up even earlier and be even more tired? Passengers don’t have rest requirements
 
USAirALB
Posts: 3238
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:54 pm

kitplane01 wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
The article mentions a case where a FA brought meth through KCM as one of the reasons KCM is being retired in favor of a TSA-run program.

I'm not condoning the FA's behavior (and I believe they should be prosecuted in accordance with the law) but what business is it to TSA if someone is bringing illicit drugs through a checkpoint? TSOs aren't supposed to search for drugs...


Is the claim the TSA should ignore meth? Would you feel the same way about child porn or guns or virii that they happen to discover?

Someone carrying meth onboard an aircraft is not a concern to the physical safety and security of the flight.

TSA isn't the DEA or local law enforcement. Their role is strictly to screen for items that pose a risk to flight safety. Looking for anything else in my eyes is massive government overreach, and that says a lot for someone who most on this forum would probably classify as a big-government socialist.
 
FLYFIRSTCLASS
Posts: 356
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:41 pm

Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:24 pm

USAirALB wrote:
kitplane01 wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
The article mentions a case where a FA brought meth through KCM as one of the reasons KCM is being retired in favor of a TSA-run program.

I'm not condoning the FA's behavior (and I believe they should be prosecuted in accordance with the law) but what business is it to TSA if someone is bringing illicit drugs through a checkpoint? TSOs aren't supposed to search for drugs...


Is the claim the TSA should ignore meth? Would you feel the same way about child porn or guns or virii that they happen to discover?

Someone carrying meth onboard an aircraft is not a concern to the physical safety and security of the flight.

TSA isn't the DEA or local law enforcement. Their role is strictly to screen for items that pose a risk to flight safety. Looking for anything else in my eyes is massive government overreach, and that says a lot for someone who most on this forum would probably classify as a big-government socialist.


TSA does care about transporting illegal drugs across various state lines. I remember on several occasions where TSA in DFW would call DPS and have some poor guy hauled off to jail in handcuffs for a single joint in his bag. So yea the TSA does care.
 
santi319
Posts: 1483
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:24 pm

Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:31 pm

FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
kitplane01 wrote:

Is the claim the TSA should ignore meth? Would you feel the same way about child porn or guns or virii that they happen to discover?

Someone carrying meth onboard an aircraft is not a concern to the physical safety and security of the flight.

TSA isn't the DEA or local law enforcement. Their role is strictly to screen for items that pose a risk to flight safety. Looking for anything else in my eyes is massive government overreach, and that says a lot for someone who most on this forum would probably classify as a big-government socialist.


TSA does care about transporting illegal drugs across various state lines. I remember on several occasions where TSA in DFW would call DPS and have some poor guy hauled off to jail in handcuffs for a single joint in his bag. So yea the TSA does care.


Wrong, TSA is not trained to screen for narcotics. If they come upon one, a LEO can be contacted, but they are not trained for that specific issue…

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-scr ... -marijuana
 
FLYFIRSTCLASS
Posts: 356
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:41 pm

Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:35 pm

santi319 wrote:
FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
Someone carrying meth onboard an aircraft is not a concern to the physical safety and security of the flight.

TSA isn't the DEA or local law enforcement. Their role is strictly to screen for items that pose a risk to flight safety. Looking for anything else in my eyes is massive government overreach, and that says a lot for someone who most on this forum would probably classify as a big-government socialist.


TSA does care about transporting illegal drugs across various state lines. I remember on several occasions where TSA in DFW would call DPS and have some poor guy hauled off to jail in handcuffs for a single joint in his bag. So yea the TSA does care.


Wrong, TSA is not trained to screen for narcotics. If they come upon one, a LEO can be contacted, but they are not trained for that specific issue…

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-scr ... -marijuana


If they find them they do detain the passenger till DPS arrives and takes them to jail.
 
N1120A
Posts: 27567
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

Re: Goodbye KCM (known crew member)

Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:36 pm

KCM came into being because they tried to force a pilot into a body scanner or pat down and wouldn't let him through. He and the union, rightfully, raised a stink and KCM came into being. This was before Pre Check existed.

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