New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2022

SQ22 · Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:31 pm

Welcome to the New Zealand Aviation Thread December 2022. Please continue your discussion and to post your news here.

Link to previous thread:

New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2022

ZK-NBT · Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:32 pm

Not directly NZ related.

https://www.cookislandsnews.com/interna ... -airlines/

HA to pick up HNL-RAR.

NZ516 · Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:14 am

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/id/ ... edule-1186

First revenue service today for ZK OYB AKL-CHC NZ527.
The idea of the engines coming off for repairs didn't eventuate luckily.

ZK-NBT · Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:52 am

OE-LAL A332F enroute CGK-AKL as KF9128 operating the inaugural EK freight service.

Aircraft wears a hybrid Hong Yuan, Air Belgium livery.

Not sure if this a single aircraft operation or if others will also operate? Service is 3x weekly.

ZK-NBT · Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:53 am

https://www.miragenews.com/jetstar-to-t ... ds-906683/

Taken from the Australian thread, JQ to fly 2 weekly A321LR SYD-RAR from June 2023.

77west · Thu Dec 01, 2022 4:54 am

NZ516 wrote:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/id/ANZ527-1669666500-schedule-1186

First revenue service today for ZK OYB AKL-CHC NZ527.
The idea of the engines coming off for repairs didn't eventuate luckily.

That's 2 days earlier than initially scheduled.

SXI899 · Thu Dec 01, 2022 5:17 am

NZ516 wrote:
The idea of the engines coming off for repairs didn't eventuate luckily.

Was never on the cards. Not sure where that rumour came from!

77west wrote:
That's 2 days earlier than initially scheduled.

Covering for another. Came in handy having it already good to go.

ZK-NBT wrote:
Not sure if this a single aircraft operation or if others will also operate? Service is 3x weekly.

I suspect that this will be the only aircraft used, as their other A332Fs are committed for use with CGM CMA.

ZK-NBT · Thu Dec 01, 2022 5:22 am

SXI899 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
The idea of the engines coming off for repairs didn't eventuate luckily.

Was never on the cards. Not sure where that rumour came from!

77west wrote:
That's 2 days earlier than initially scheduled.

Covering for another. Came in handy having it already good to go.

ZK-NBT wrote:
Not sure if this a single aircraft operation or if others will also operate? Service is 3x weekly.

I suspect that this will be the only aircraft used, as their other A332Fs are committed for use with CGM CMA.

A more genuine question, do brand new aircraft have older engines put on before service entry? I always presumed a new aircraft would have brand new parts. While spares would be used on older aircraft where required.

Yes I presume the Air Belgium lease will be a single aircraft service given its every 2 days it fits in a 3 weekly rotation.

kaitak · Thu Dec 01, 2022 6:09 am

When is the first ANZ 787-10 due for delivery?

ZK-NBT · Thu Dec 01, 2022 6:48 am

kaitak wrote:
When is the first ANZ 787-10 due for delivery?

Not known. The next 787s are 789s in late 2024, weather they take any 781s isn’t known yet.

ZK-NBT · Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:39 am

A380 A6-EVG due 1125 2/12 marks the return of the A380 and reintroduction of non stop DXB-AKL services.

JJWess · Thu Dec 01, 2022 8:30 am

Out of curiosity, what’s the Code 1/2/3 layouts with the Air NZ 787’s? I.e. after all 787’s have had their interiors refurbished, will there still be 3 codes circulating or..?

ZK-NBT · Thu Dec 01, 2022 8:37 am

JJWess wrote:
Out of curiosity, what’s the Code 1/2/3 layouts with the Air NZ 787’s? I.e. after all 787’s have had their interiors refurbished, will there still be 3 codes circulating or..?

Code 1 18J 21W 263Y 302 total
Code 2 27J 33W 215Y 275 total
Code 3 50J 52W 125Y 227 total from 2024

Code 1.5 26J 33W 213Y 272 total from 2024, to replace code 1 and code 2. Pretty sure all existing code 1 and 2 will end up in this configuration. Code 3 will be GE powered while existing fleet is RR.

NZ516 · Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:26 pm

SXI899 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
The idea of the engines coming off for repairs didn't eventuate luckily.

Was never on the cards. Not sure where that rumour came from.

It came from ZK AVIATION post last month this is what it mentions:

Bit of an unusual story going around that it won't be brought into service for a while, it will have its engines removed, and used as a source of parts.
Apparently there is a worldwide shortage of parts for the P&W1100G engines, 50 aircraft are grounded worldwide as a result.

I didn't believe it was correct as it seems so unusual.

zkncj · Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:02 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
https://www.miragenews.com/jetstar-to-take-off-from-sydney-to-cook-islands-906683/

Taken from the Australian thread, JQ to fly 2 weekly A321LR SYD-RAR from June 2023.

Hopefully JQ will do a PER-AKL with they a321LR’s.

ZaphodHarkonnen · Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:32 pm

Wayne Brown trotting out the “we’re good at economic governance” tactic of asset sales for a sugar rush. Looking at selling Auckland’s stake in AIAL. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politi ... ort-shares

NZ516 · Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:34 pm

zkncj wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
https://www.miragenews.com/jetstar-to-take-off-from-sydney-to-cook-islands-906683/

Taken from the Australian thread, JQ to fly 2 weekly A321LR SYD-RAR from June 2023.

Hopefully JQ will do a PER-AKL with they a321LR’s.

Yes it seems like a good fit. Or even with Qantas A321LRs would work, but depends on Perth Airport playing it's part.

NZ516 · Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:53 pm

Bad day for Air NZ last Wednesday with 4 AKL-WLG flights cancelled with a bird strike and lightning strike on the same day.

https://australianaviation.com.au/2022/ ... -services/

NZ516 · Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:55 pm

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Wayne Brown trotting out the “we’re good at economic governance” tactic of asset sales for a sugar rush. Looking at selling Auckland’s stake in AIAL. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politi ... ort-shares

$2 billion dollars it's a big wind fall for the Council. If it gets sold to an overseas buyer they might fast track the airport redevelopment which would be really good.

atal17 · Thu Dec 01, 2022 11:09 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
https://www.miragenews.com/jetstar-to-take-off-from-sydney-to-cook-islands-906683/

Taken from the Australian thread, JQ to fly 2 weekly A321LR SYD-RAR from June 2023.

And apparently, NZ will return to the route from NS23

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/221201-nzns23rar

JJWess · Thu Dec 01, 2022 11:54 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
JJWess wrote:
Out of curiosity, what’s the Code 1/2/3 layouts with the Air NZ 787’s? I.e. after all 787’s have had their interiors refurbished, will there still be 3 codes circulating or..?

Code 1 18J 21W 263Y 302 total
Code 2 27J 33W 215Y 275 total
Code 3 50J 52W 125Y 227 total from 2024

Code 1.5 26J 33W 213Y 272 total from 2024, to replace code 1 and code 2. Pretty sure all existing code 1 and 2 will end up in this configuration. Code 3 will be GE powered while existing fleet is RR.

My understanding is that currently, only two 789's will be the code 3 layout? What are the chances of some of the 78x's being converted to more GE Code 3 789's?

ZK-NBT · Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:05 am

JJWess wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
JJWess wrote:
Out of curiosity, what’s the Code 1/2/3 layouts with the Air NZ 787’s? I.e. after all 787’s have had their interiors refurbished, will there still be 3 codes circulating or..?

Code 1 18J 21W 263Y 302 total
Code 2 27J 33W 215Y 275 total
Code 3 50J 52W 125Y 227 total from 2024

Code 1.5 26J 33W 213Y 272 total from 2024, to replace code 1 and code 2. Pretty sure all existing code 1 and 2 will end up in this configuration. Code 3 will be GE powered while existing fleet is RR.

My understanding is that currently, only two 789's will be the code 3 layout? What are the chances of some of the 78x's being converted to more GE Code 3 789's?

I think it is pretty flexible. Depends on frequency to JFK/ORD by then, my understanding is they will have the Sky nest product. If there is demand for those routes to both be daily then they need 4 code 3.

ZK-NBT · Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:05 am

atal17 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
https://www.miragenews.com/jetstar-to-take-off-from-sydney-to-cook-islands-906683/

Taken from the Australian thread, JQ to fly 2 weekly A321LR SYD-RAR from June 2023.

And apparently, NZ will return to the route from NS23

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/221201-nzns23rar

I just saw that. Interesting, I wonder if it will be seasonal?

NZ516 · Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:45 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
atal17 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
https://www.miragenews.com/jetstar-to-take-off-from-sydney-to-cook-islands-906683/

Taken from the Australian thread, JQ to fly 2 weekly A321LR SYD-RAR from June 2023.

And apparently, NZ will return to the route from NS23

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/221201-nzns23rar

I just saw that. Interesting, I wonder if it will be seasonal?

Interesting development and just after the JQ RAR SYD launch. Perhaps NZ will bring back the RAR-LAX service too. What would do well is a return of the CHC-RAR 320 flights.

aerohottie · Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:49 am

NZ516 wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Wayne Brown trotting out the “we’re good at economic governance” tactic of asset sales for a sugar rush. Looking at selling Auckland’s stake in AIAL. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politi ... ort-shares

$2 billion dollars it's a big wind fall for the Council. If it gets sold to an overseas buyer they might fast track the airport redevelopment which would be really good.

Good opportunity for the Government to purchase AKL Councils shares. Win/win in my honest opinion.
I don't think there is any mood in NZ to allow asset sales, especially not of our nationally strategic assets to foreign buyers

Zkpilot · Fri Dec 02, 2022 7:15 am

kaitak wrote:
When is the first ANZ 787-10 due for delivery?

The need for better 789 (ie GE birds) is more pressing for now. But NZ is also probably waiting for Boeing to make improvements to the 7810 - increased MTOW, more fuel capacity etc. A rewinged bird (ER version) would be of huge appeal just as the 77W was over the 773 and the 763ER over the 763 before it.

zkncj · Fri Dec 02, 2022 7:52 am

NZ516 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
atal17 wrote:

And apparently, NZ will return to the route from NS23

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/221201-nzns23rar

I just saw that. Interesting, I wonder if it will be seasonal?

Interesting development and just after the JQ RAR SYD launch. Perhaps NZ will bring back the RAR-LAX service too. What would do well is a return of the CHC-RAR 320 flights.

Accomodation for 2023 must be going to get right in Rarotonga. Demand ex AKL has been very strong over the past year, since the boarder to Cook Islands reopened.

ZK-NBT · Fri Dec 02, 2022 7:57 pm

77W ZK-OKR is due to fly VCV-LAX today, then onto HNL-SIN a few days later.

ZK-OKS due SIN-AKL in the next couple days.

AKL-SIN goes 77W from the Dec 5th.

NZ516 · Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:11 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
77W ZK-OKR is due to fly VCV-LAX today, then onto HNL-SIN a few days later.

ZK-OKS due SIN-AKL in the next couple days.

AKL-SIN goes 77W from the Dec 5th.

Good to have the 5th one back but there is not a lot of flying scheduled for them. They could really do a daily service to LAX, SFO, and SIN from now on. If they get all 7 back in add a daily IAH. This would free up more 789s for additional services to other ports. Especially when they are so short of wide bodies.

NZ516 · Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:16 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
kaitak wrote:
When is the first ANZ 787-10 due for delivery?

The need for better 789 (ie GE birds) is more pressing for now. But NZ is also probably waiting for Boeing to make improvements to the 7810 - increased MTOW, more fuel capacity etc. A rewinged bird (ER version) would be of huge appeal just as the 77W was over the 773 and the 763ER over the 763 before it.

Those two examples explains it very well. With both the 763ER and the 77W ended up being so much more capable than their standard versions. Hopefully Boeing can deliver a much improved 787ER as so many airlines will order it.

ZK-NBT · Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:47 pm

NZ516 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
77W ZK-OKR is due to fly VCV-LAX today, then onto HNL-SIN a few days later.

ZK-OKS due SIN-AKL in the next couple days.

AKL-SIN goes 77W from the Dec 5th.

Good to have the 5th one back but there is not a lot of flying scheduled for them. They could really do a daily service to LAX, SFO, and SIN from now on. If they get all 7 back in add a daily IAH. This would free up more 789s for additional services to other ports. Especially when they are so short of wide bodies.

There is only 4 scheduled
10 weekly LAX ( from this week)
Daily SIN ( From this week)
Plus short haul.

Remember they also have a spare 789 effectively, as they are short of crew, hence the Wamos lease which gives them a bit more slack.

ZK-NBT · Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:49 pm

NZ516 wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
kaitak wrote:
When is the first ANZ 787-10 due for delivery?

The need for better 789 (ie GE birds) is more pressing for now. But NZ is also probably waiting for Boeing to make improvements to the 7810 - increased MTOW, more fuel capacity etc. A rewinged bird (ER version) would be of huge appeal just as the 77W was over the 773 and the 763ER over the 763 before it.

Those two examples explains it very well. With both the 763ER and the 77W ended up being so much more capable than their standard versions. Hopefully Boeing can deliver a much improved 787ER as so many airlines will order it.

The 787 is pretty capable as is particularly the 789, the 781 will be interesting to watch where airlines need a bit more floor space, a 781ER would be good for NZ I think to LAX/SFO at least, maybe even YVR/IAH.

NZ516 · Sat Dec 03, 2022 12:10 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
77W ZK-OKR is due to fly VCV-LAX today, then onto HNL-SIN a few days later.

ZK-OKS due SIN-AKL in the next couple days.

AKL-SIN goes 77W from the Dec 5th.

Good to have the 5th one back but there is not a lot of flying scheduled for them. They could really do a daily service to LAX, SFO, and SIN from now on. If they get all 7 back in add a daily IAH. This would free up more 789s for additional services to other ports. Especially when they are so short of wide bodies.

There is only 4 scheduled
10 weekly LAX ( from this week)
Daily SIN ( From this week)
Plus short haul.

Remember they also have a spare 789 effectively, as they are short of crew, hence the Wamos lease which gives them a bit more slack.

Regarding the 789s they are using all 14 at the moment although with some gaps. None are out for long periods on maintenance. There are some more freight only 789 flying still even through CHC. I was expecting that by December these would have ended in favor of more passenger flights.

ZK-NBT · Sat Dec 03, 2022 12:27 am

NZ516 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ516 wrote:

Good to have the 5th one back but there is not a lot of flying scheduled for them. They could really do a daily service to LAX, SFO, and SIN from now on. If they get all 7 back in add a daily IAH. This would free up more 789s for additional services to other ports. Especially when they are so short of wide bodies.

There is only 4 scheduled
10 weekly LAX ( from this week)
Daily SIN ( From this week)
Plus short haul.

Remember they also have a spare 789 effectively, as they are short of crew, hence the Wamos lease which gives them a bit more slack.

Regarding the 789s they are using all 14 at the moment although with some gaps. None are out for long periods on maintenance. There are some more freight only 789 flying still even through CHC. I was expecting that by December these would have ended in favor of more passenger flights.

There won’t be any out for long periods from now till mid FEB at least. I was surprised with the freight flights still running, I thought they were stopping? The thing is they probably have flight crew but not cabin crew, so are able to run freight only flights still.

NZ516 · Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:00 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

There is only 4 scheduled
10 weekly LAX ( from this week)
Daily SIN ( From this week)
Plus short haul.

Remember they also have a spare 789 effectively, as they are short of crew, hence the Wamos lease which gives them a bit more slack.

Regarding the 789s they are using all 14 at the moment although with some gaps. None are out for long periods on maintenance. There are some more freight only 789 flying still even through CHC. I was expecting that by December these would have ended in favor of more passenger flights.

There won’t be any out for long periods from now till mid FEB at least. I was surprised with the freight flights still running, I thought they were stopping? The thing is they probably have flight crew but not cabin crew, so are able to run freight only flights still.

Yes that could well be the case especially with the 787s flying right through the two years of the pandemic.

NZ516 · Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:23 am

I done some research of the NZ domestic aviation scene of the past. There was a period when there were 3 domestic airlines competing with fairly extensive coverage of the nation far more than what we have today. Plus the size of the NZ market was smaller back then.

Air NZ including Mt Cook and Air Nelson served some 25-27 destinations with a fleet of 16 737s and 11 ATRs and 15 Saabs.

Ansett NZ they were running from 1987 to 2001 and served 15 destinations with a fleet of 12 Bae 146 jets, 9 Dash-8s and Emb 110s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansett_New_Zealand

Origin Pacific they were running from 1997 to 2006 and served 16 destinations with a fleet of 2 Atrs, 5 J41, 3 J32 and 5 Dash 8s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_Pacific_Airways

Back in the time all 3 were flying it would have been very competive domestic market. The public had for example the choice of 3 airlines on routes between CHC to IVC, CHC to DUD and CHC to ZQN. Not to mention the main ones as well AKL-WLG-CHC. Perhaps no one was making any money hence only Air NZ is surving today. But I think there is room for another player serving the regions today.

mrkerr7474 · Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:23 am

Anyone know what Vietnam Airlines is doing heading to AKL today? With another scheduled tomorrow before heading to WLG a couple days later before back to AKL then Hanoi on the 7th

Assuming a charter or something for an event but quite interesting really!

ZK-NBT · Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:39 am

mrkerr7474 wrote:
Anyone know what Vietnam Airlines is doing heading to AKL today? With another scheduled tomorrow before heading to WLG a couple days later before back to AKL then Hanoi on the 7th

Assuming a charter or something for an event but quite interesting really!

Government charter isn’t it?

ZK-NBT · Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:49 am

NZ516 wrote:
I done some research of the NZ domestic aviation scene of the past. There was a period when there were 3 domestic airlines competing with fairly extensive coverage of the nation far more than what we have today. Plus the size of the NZ market was smaller back then.

Air NZ including Mt Cook and Air Nelson served some 25-27 destinations with a fleet of 16 737s and 11 ATRs and 15 Saabs.

Ansett NZ they were running from 1987 to 2001 and served 15 destinations with a fleet of 12 Bae 146 jets, 9 Dash-8s and Emb 110s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansett_New_Zealand

Origin Pacific they were running from 1997 to 2006 and served 16 destinations with a fleet of 2 Atrs, 5 J41, 3 J32 and 5 Dash 8s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_Pacific_Airways

Back in the time all 3 were flying it would have been very competive domestic market. The public had for example the choice of 3 airlines on routes between CHC to IVC, CHC to DUD and CHC to ZQN. Not to mention the main ones as well AKL-WLG-CHC. Perhaps no one was making any money hence only Air NZ is surving today. But I think there is room for another player serving the regions today.

What happened to Ansett and Origin Pacific?

And why did NZ go all Y domestically in the early 2000s?

I think you answered your own question.

We recently had JQ try the regions, albeit a bit of a token offering of 5 destinations and 5 aircraft, but the same type NZ use.

Perhaps those who think JQ should use A220s are right and they can at least serve a few of the larger regions as well as the main trunk. The problem is they don’t have A220s and it seems the NZ market doesn’t give the best ROI for them.

NZ6 · Sat Dec 03, 2022 4:18 am

NZ516 wrote:
I done some research of the NZ domestic aviation scene of the past. There was a period when there were 3 domestic airlines competing with fairly extensive coverage of the nation far more than what we have today. Plus the size of the NZ market was smaller back then.

Air NZ including Mt Cook and Air Nelson served some 25-27 destinations with a fleet of 16 737s and 11 ATRs and 15 Saabs.

Ansett NZ they were running from 1987 to 2001 and served 15 destinations with a fleet of 12 Bae 146 jets, 9 Dash-8s and Emb 110s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansett_New_Zealand

Origin Pacific they were running from 1997 to 2006 and served 16 destinations with a fleet of 2 Atrs, 5 J41, 3 J32 and 5 Dash 8s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_Pacific_Airways

Back in the time all 3 were flying it would have been very competive domestic market. The public had for example the choice of 3 airlines on routes between CHC to IVC, CHC to DUD and CHC to ZQN. Not to mention the main ones as well AKL-WLG-CHC. Perhaps no one was making any money hence only Air NZ is surving today. But I think there is room for another player serving the regions today.

Like the other poster said, you've answered your own question.

But for my comment - you're not really comparing like for like. NZ had 130 seat 737-300's? They've not got 171 seat A320 and 217 seat A321NEO's.. they've got more ATR's and flying them into smaller centers. This all brings down cost per seat, that on top of the high fuel price this makes it very hard for a secondary / smaller airline to enter. NZ's also found a load of efficiencies since the 90's kiosk, bag drop etc which reduces their operating costs.

Origin grew post the Ansett collapse so those two were not at their peak simultaneously.

I'd suggest going back a look a little deeper into that research.

But, since way back people have always said we need a second airline, we need competition. Yet, they come and go and they can't make it work. Yet NZ has hundreds of thousands of seats each year at under $100 (new campaign coming out shortly). Do we realize how good we've got it? We're a small country with a small population outside AKL.

PA515 · Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:44 pm

Three of the four owned Air NZ 777-219ERs have now been cancelled from the register, presumably sold.
ZK-OKB 18 Nov 2022 (exported)
ZK-OKC 02 Dec 2022 (exported)
ZK-OKF 02 Dec 2022 (exported)

I expect ZK-OKH will soon be cancelled as well.

PA515

NZ321 · Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:46 pm

NZ516 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
77W ZK-OKR is due to fly VCV-LAX today, then onto HNL-SIN a few days later.

ZK-OKS due SIN-AKL in the next couple days.

AKL-SIN goes 77W from the Dec 5th.

Good to have the 5th one back but there is not a lot of flying scheduled for them. They could really do a daily service to LAX, SFO, and SIN from now on. If they get all 7 back in add a daily IAH. This would free up more 789s for additional services to other ports. Especially when they are so short of wide bodies.

Do you have a breakdown of the utilisation? That would be interesting to see.

zkojq · Sat Dec 03, 2022 2:03 pm

Did the Finland Prime Minister travel here in anything interesting, or just flew commercially?

PA515 wrote:
Three of the four owned Air NZ 777-219ERs have now been cancelled from the register, presumably sold.
ZK-OKB 18 Nov 2022 (exported)
ZK-OKC 02 Dec 2022 (exported)
ZK-OKF 02 Dec 2022 (exported)

I expect ZK-OKH will soon be cancelled as well.

PA515

Hope the new owner looks after them. :cry:

NZ321 · Sat Dec 03, 2022 2:18 pm

zkojq wrote:
Did the Finland Prime Minister travel here in anything interesting, or just flew commercially?

PA515 wrote:
Three of the four owned Air NZ 777-219ERs have now been cancelled from the register, presumably sold.
ZK-OKB 18 Nov 2022 (exported)
ZK-OKC 02 Dec 2022 (exported)
ZK-OKF 02 Dec 2022 (exported)

I expect ZK-OKH will soon be cancelled as well.

PA515

Hope the new owner looks after them.

Perhaps she flew Air NZ?

ZK-NBT · Sat Dec 03, 2022 7:33 pm

NZ321 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
77W ZK-OKR is due to fly VCV-LAX today, then onto HNL-SIN a few days later.

ZK-OKS due SIN-AKL in the next couple days.

AKL-SIN goes 77W from the Dec 5th.

Good to have the 5th one back but there is not a lot of flying scheduled for them. They could really do a daily service to LAX, SFO, and SIN from now on. If they get all 7 back in add a daily IAH. This would free up more 789s for additional services to other ports. Especially when they are so short of wide bodies.

Do you have a breakdown of the utilisation? That would be interesting to see.

5th Dec through mid Feb. Plenty of short haul in between.

77W 5 aircraft
AKL-LAX x10 3 aircraft
AKL-SIN X7 1 aircraft Dec 5th Jan 15th
AKL-SFO x4 1.5 aircraft Jan 16th

789 code, 5 aircraft
AKL-JFK x3 1 aircraft
AKL-ORD x3 1 aircraft
AKL-SFO x5 3 aircraft combined with IAH
AKL-IAH x5

789 code 1, 9 aircraft
AKL-YVR x7 2 aircraft
AKL-PVG x7 2 aircraft (mostly freight)
AKL-NRT x6 1 aircraft
AKL-HKG x4
AKL-ICN x4
AKL-TPE x3
AKL-HNL x3
AKL-PPT x3

HKG/ICN/TPE//HNL/PPT 3 aircraft.

mrkerr7474 · Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:26 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
mrkerr7474 wrote:
Anyone know what Vietnam Airlines is doing heading to AKL today? With another scheduled tomorrow before heading to WLG a couple days later before back to AKL then Hanoi on the 7th

Assuming a charter or something for an event but quite interesting really!

Government charter isn’t it?

Oh yeah must be. Would be neat seeing them or even Bamboo Airlines fulltime though

GW54 · Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:39 pm

Noticed a number if Trans Tasman flights have been cancelled impacting Wellington and Christchurch. Seems A320N ZK-NHD hasn't flown since around 20 November. Do they have a problem or if it's on a check why didn't they keep OJM a little longer? Sums up Air NZ atitude to WLG and CHC.

NZ516 · Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:01 am

NZ6 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
I done some research of the NZ domestic aviation scene of the past. There was a period when there were 3 domestic airlines competing with fairly extensive coverage of the nation far more than what we have today. Plus the size of the NZ market was smaller back then.

Air NZ including Mt Cook and Air Nelson served some 25-27 destinations with a fleet of 16 737s and 11 ATRs and 15 Saabs.

Ansett NZ they were running from 1987 to 2001 and served 15 destinations with a fleet of 12 Bae 146 jets, 9 Dash-8s and Emb 110s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansett_New_Zealand

Origin Pacific they were running from 1997 to 2006 and served 16 destinations with a fleet of 2 Atrs, 5 J41, 3 J32 and 5 Dash 8s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_Pacific_Airways

Back in the time all 3 were flying it would have been very competive domestic market. The public had for example the choice of 3 airlines on routes between CHC to IVC, CHC to DUD and CHC to ZQN. Not to mention the main ones as well AKL-WLG-CHC. Perhaps no one was making any money hence only Air NZ is surving today. But I think there is room for another player serving the regions today.

Like the other poster said, you've answered your own question.

But for my comment - you're not really comparing like for like. NZ had 130 seat 737-300's? They've not got 171 seat A320 and 217 seat A321NEO's.. they've got more ATR's and flying them into smaller centers. This all brings down cost per seat, that on top of the high fuel price this makes it very hard for a secondary / smaller airline to enter. NZ's also found a load of efficiencies since the 90's kiosk, bag drop etc which reduces their operating costs.

Origin grew post the Ansett collapse so those two were not at their peak simultaneously.

I'd suggest going back a look a little deeper into that research.

But, since way back people have always said we need a second airline, we need competition. Yet, they come and go and they can't make it work. Yet NZ has hundreds of thousands of seats each year at under $100 (new campaign coming out shortly). Do we realize how good we've got it? We're a small country with a small population outside AKL.

Good detailed analysis thanks NZ6 for your input we do have it good in NZ. The main trunk routes have grown substationally in avaialbe seats in the last 20 years, phenominal growth actually. I cannot see a new domestic player coming here even, the set up costs are just too high. One can look at Origin Air they are back as an airline but are just a smaller niche operator with a very limited schedule. It seems hardly worth it and they can't be making any decent profits with so little flying.

NZ516 · Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:05 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:

Good to have the 5th one back but there is not a lot of flying scheduled for them. They could really do a daily service to LAX, SFO, and SIN from now on. If they get all 7 back in add a daily IAH. This would free up more 789s for additional services to other ports. Especially when they are so short of wide bodies.

Do you have a breakdown of the utilisation? That would be interesting to see.

5th Dec through mid Feb. Plenty of short haul in between.

77W 5 aircraft
AKL-LAX x10 3 aircraft
AKL-SIN X7 1 aircraft Dec 5th Jan 15th
AKL-SFO x4 1.5 aircraft Jan 16th

789 code, 5 aircraft
AKL-JFK x3 1 aircraft
AKL-ORD x3 1 aircraft
AKL-SFO x5 3 aircraft combined with IAH
AKL-IAH x5

789 code 1, 9 aircraft
AKL-YVR x7 2 aircraft
AKL-PVG x7 2 aircraft (mostly freight)
AKL-NRT x6 1 aircraft
AKL-HKG x4
AKL-ICN x4
AKL-TPE x3
AKL-HNL x3
AKL-PPT x3

HKG/ICN/TPE//HNL/PPT 3 aircraft.

Good summary of the summer schedules and can add in cargo only flights as well with the 789s.

NZ801 · Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:11 am

GW54 wrote:
Noticed a number if Trans Tasman flights have been cancelled impacting Wellington and Christchurch. Seems A320N ZK-NHD hasn't flown since around 20 November. Do they have a problem or if it's on a check why didn't they keep OJM a little longer? Sums up Air NZ atitude to WLG and CHC.

What attitude would that be exactly?

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