Welcome to the Turkish Aviation Thread December 2022. Please continue your discussion and to post your news here.

Link to previous thread:

Turkish Aviation November 2022

Hello there Turkish Aviation fans,
Welcome to the December edition.


Here are some headlines to get things started:
-Thanks for your continued support for all these years. First Turkish Aviation monthly thread was Dec 2006, happy anniversary.
-Last month there was a new TK future destination wish list, I would like to put it up here also:
"Africa: Aswan (ASW), Brazzaville (BZV), Hargeisa (HGA), Monrovia (ROB), Port Sudan (PZU)
Americas: Denver (DEN), Detroit (DTW), Orlando (MCO), Rio de Janerio (GIG), Santiago de Chile (SCL)
Asia & Oceania: Aktobe (AKX), Atyrau (GUW), Penang (PEN), Phnom Penh (PNH), Sialkot (SKT), Sydney (SYD)
Europe: A Coruña (LCG), Bergen (BGO), Iași (IAS), Kraków (KRK), Lankaran (LLK), Makhachkala (MCX), Nantes (NTE), Newcastle upon Tyne (NCL), Palermo (PMO), Timișoara (TSR)
Middle East: Abha (AHB), Salalah (SLL)"
-Have you seen the TK stock price recently??? It is up to 60. Not to jinx it but I remember buying some when it was in the lower 2's Way to go TK.
-Latest on the TK+Indigo deal. It is for 2 x 77Ws for 6+6 months. TK can spare these frames for the next summer season? Maybe is it a price to pay to get more India slots?

Please continue with your news, views, photos, rumors and good old sense of humor.
Please refrain from personal attacks and political mombo jumbo.
Welcome.

Thanks for a new thread . NCL is an interesting one and it would be interesting to see what kind of frequencies it could support.

Southwind Airlines is planning a total of 5 Boeing 737-8 MAX.

In addition to the long-announced TC–GRC Airbus A321-231 (msn 1233), 2 Boeing 777s and another Airbus A321–231 (msn 5382) lsd ALC are also expected to join the fleet.

The fleet currently consists of:
• TC–GRA Airbus A330–223 msn 1256
• TC–GRB Airbus A330–223 msn 1266
• TC–GRD Airbus A321–223 sl msn 5836
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1478101&start=100 post #125



only yesterday I had reported about it and already another addition.
Southwind Airlines takes delivery of its first A321neo. like most Southwind (STW) aircrafts, this one was once intended for Russian Nordwind Airlines.
• TC–GRE Airbus A321–253NX msn 11039, ex D-AVYM ( ntu VP–... Nordwind Airlines)

I know Southwind as an airline is formally registered in Turkey. However, it seems to have a strong focus on Russia. To what extent is it controlled from Moscow, and how much control is in Turkey ?

Not sure but maybe TKflyer can confirm looks like another A321N will join AnadoluJet MSN 11039 A321-253NX D-AVYM (Nordwind NTU)
https://a380.boards.net/thread/1540/tur ... os?page=38

Do we know how many in total AJ will get ? According to Planespotters 3x A320Nx 4x A321N + 3 A321N total 10 but looks like more will come.
https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Anadolu-Jet

TK787 wrote:

Hello there Turkish Aviation fans,
Welcome to the December edition.

Here are some headlines to get things started:
-Thanks for your continued support for all these years. First Turkish Aviation monthly thread was Dec 2006, happy anniversary.
.

...or was it this one some months earlier the same year viewtopic.php?f=3&t=401399&p=5123747&hilit=turkish+aviation#p5123747
Thanks again TK787 for the summary and keeping the almost institutional monthly pattern of the Turkish Aviation threads.

India's IndiGo okayed to wet lease B777s for 12 months
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... -12-months

Not sure how many 777's but I know I read here 3 maybe up to 6 frames, What amazes me is TK CEO said he needs 20 additional WB for 2023 and yet 3/6 777's are heading on wet lease to IndiGo.

after many years - finally I am booked again on a TK flight. later this month BOG-PTY-IST-MUC-IST-BOG. I am not a revenue expert... but I don't get that Business was cheaper than Eco ... booked just some days ago for the peak travel time in December.

TK773ER wrote:

Not sure but maybe TKflyer can confirm looks like another A321N will join AnadoluJet MSN 11039 A321-253NX D-AVYM (Nordwind NTU)
https://a380.boards.net/thread/1540/tur ... os?page=38

Do we know how many in total AJ will get ? According to Planespotters 3x A320Nx 4x A321N + 3 A321N total 10 but looks like more will come.
https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Anadolu-Jet

As reported, msn 11039 Airbus A321–253NX is definitely intended for Southwind Airlines as TC-GRE.

This fact has also been adjusted on the following page.
https://a380.boards.net/thread/3256/southwind-a321neos

stylo777 wrote:

...or was it this one some months earlier the same year viewtopic.php?f=3&t=401399&p=5123747&hilit=turkish+aviation#p5123747
Thanks again TK787 for the summary and keeping the almost institutional monthly pattern of the Turkish Aviation threads.

Yes !!!!! Thank you. That is the one. What month of 2006 was that? So, we can officially announce an anniversary date
And what happened to some other members from those threads?? I still keep in touch with few of them but would like to know what happened to TK pilot "pilotaydin", for example.

"airporthaber" reports that 3rd and final installment for the ground radar at IST is operational soon and will reduce the taxi durations 10-15%.

TK787 wrote:

"airporthaber" reports that 3rd and final installment for the ground radar at IST is operational soon and will reduce the taxi durations 10-15%.

Can you clarify how the new system help to reduce taxi time?

calcal wrote:

TK787 wrote:

"airporthaber" reports that 3rd and final installment for the ground radar at IST is operational soon and will reduce the taxi durations 10-15%.

Can you clarify how the new system help to reduce taxi time?

From what I understand from the article, "through automation". This is what google translate says:
"The new system consists of 6 radars and 51 multi-antenna systems. The system draws the route automatically."

Will it also solve the problem of periodical invisibility of aircrafts there on Flightradar?

TK787 wrote:

calcal wrote:

TK787 wrote:

"airporthaber" reports that 3rd and final installment for the ground radar at IST is operational soon and will reduce the taxi durations 10-15%.

Can you clarify how the new system help to reduce taxi time?

From what I understand from the article, "through automation". This is what google translate says:
"The new system consists of 6 radars and 51 multi-antenna systems. The system draws the route automatically."

My best guess is that the system recognizes the incoming aircraft during landing and auto-loads the route from the landing runway to its gate thus eliminating tower instructions.

THY's art plane made of post-its on display in Miami

https://www.dailysabah.com/arts/events/ ... -miami/amp

The gala dinner was hosted by Turkish Airlines .

davidjohnson6 wrote:

I know Southwind as an airline is formally registered in Turkey. However, it seems to have a strong focus on Russia. To what extent is it controlled from Moscow, and how much control is in Turkey ?

It belongs to a Turkish tour operator Pegas, so it is fully managed from AYT. However Pegas is a large player in Russian tourism.
Now that Turkish-Russian tour operators have to limit their capacity from Russia to Turkey, they are looking at other source markets to grow. Sothwind will have many european flights next year.

TK773ER wrote:

India's IndiGo okayed to wet lease B777s for 12 months
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... -12-months

Not sure how many 777's but I know I read here 3 maybe up to 6 frames, What amazes me is TK CEO said he needs 20 additional WB for 2023 and yet 3/6 777's are heading on wet lease to IndiGo.

This is perceived (by me at least) as a backdoor to circumvent the limits set on TK by the bilateral (which the Indian govt. is not open to change currently). It's effectively TK doubling its capacity to BOM/ DEL but under India's share of the traffic. Once both sides bilateral limits are reached, it becomes reasonable to start a discussion for the bilateral to be expanded.

Hence, it's no surprise that TK CEO needs new frames and is wet leasing these at the same time.

Does anyone know how this wet lease is going to work for TK? Will TK temporarily base crew/ MX in India for the duration of this wet lease? Or will this be operated exactly the same way that TK's current BOM/ DEL flights work?

Finally, TK gets its own lounge at JFK Terminal One:
https://www.airporthaber.com/thy-haberl ... hazir.html

Turkish Airlines participated at Miami Art Week with this plane mock-up and TK logo by artist Ardan Ozmenoglu.


https://idsb.tmgrup.com.tr/ly/uploads/i ... 1669883824

Turkish Airlines CEO Bolat in Miami

https://www.haberturk.com/yazarlar/gunt ... irma-atagi

We don't have a wide body appetite

As THY, we have no appetite to order wide body. Because we still have airplanes that are waiting for their delivery from Boeing and Airbus
We are slowly working on Boeing 777X and Airbus A350X and A350XWB.
But orders aren't too big, maybe 15-20 at most. Also, we are not in a hurry for these planes.
Because when it was going to be delivered in 2023, they were left to 2025. Production problems continue. For this reason, we wait for them to fly a little and mature in the market.
We are also considering new models, 777Xs, for the routes to the USA with the 777, which are unprofitable. We can use new generation engines and larger capacity aircraft.
Instead of flying to New York 3 times a day, we want to fly 2 777X or A350XWB.

We gave up on regional planes because…

We gave up on regional planes because of the engine. The use of one type of engine in both planes and the fact that there were problems with the engines gave us up. If there is competition in the engine, we get good numbers. Also, for different types of regional aircraft, the issue of the pilot and their career plans, the crew is also an issue. The company, which supplies engines to regional aircraft, focuses on aircraft that are more in demand in the market. The low activity in the regional market does not appeal to them, as engine manufacturers sell the engine first and then collect the money.

About IndiGO Wet Lease agremeent

In India, we have one flight per day to New Delhi and Mumbai.
We said to Indian low-cost carrier IndiGo, “You increase the number of flights. We will not ask for anything additional on the basis of reciprocity. You fly and we will connect your passengers to the world from Istanbul. Let's do code share flights.
IndiGo couldn't come to us on its own planes because it didn't have enough range. It does not want to switch to a wide body, because the low cost airline and its fleet consists of narrow body. Thereupon, we leased 3 Boeing 777 aircraft, which we found on wet lease (together with its personnel) from the market, not from our own fleet, to IndoGo. They will market it, fill the planes, bring them to Turkey, and from there we will distribute them to the world with joint flights.


TK wont be wet Leasing any of their 777-300ERs.

Confusing part:

He Says there is no appetite for wide body orders but in the same article above are following statements quoted:

"THY currently flies to Atlanta, Washington DC, New York, Newark, Chicago, Houston, Dallas, Miami, Boston, San Francisco, Los Angeles and Seattle in the USA.
On the one hand, new ones are wanted to be added to these flight lines, on the other hand, efforts are made to increase the frequency of flights on some lines.
But he can't do it because of the plane shortage. For example, the number of flights in Miami was reduced recently, and a plane here was shifted to Panama, where direct flights were launched."

and additonally

"There are THY Managers at 11 centers in the USA, not just in Seattle. Our Seattle flights are full. We can take off immediately 7 days a week, but there is no plane. We are waiting."

He sounds like someone who got his education at Imam Hatip Kartal.

Couple of things:
-Dropping JFK frequencies with larger 777X/350X does not make sense to me. I think TK should/will go more frequencies with those larger planes, with all the money they are bringing in from the US routes.
-3 x 77Ws from some place else, not from TK fleet, for Indigo. Can someone confirm this?
Thank you.

SUN EXPRESS winter deal with iAero Airways CANX! Any idea why?

https://m.airporthaber.com/havacilik-ha ... -oldu.html

Does anyone know why Ryanair UK (ie the UK AOC which is registered as an airline in the UK and subsidiary of Ryanair Group) doesn't fly to Turkey ? The UK-Turkey market is large, and Easyjet, Wizzair and Jet2 seem happy to fly between the 2 countries

Or, perhaps why Buzz as a Polish airline doesn't fly scheduled flights between Turkey and anywhere except Slovakia...

On the one hand we need 20 WB for 2023 still no word on the additional ten A350 order ? I agree with TK787 where are these 777's for IndiGo coming from ?

TK787 wrote:

Couple of things:
-Dropping JFK frequencies with larger 777X/350X does not make sense to me. I think TK should/will go more frequencies with those larger planes, with all the money they are bringing in from the US routes.
-3 x 77Ws from some place else, not from TK fleet, for Indigo. Can someone confirm this?
Thank you.

Regarding JFK, I note that for the next peak summer season, TK is planning to down gauge the TK003/004 rotation to A333 equipment. Either, they are trying to do some revenue management with that specific flight by reducing available capacity. Alternatively, they are planning to add a fourth JFK rotation with a departure time around 10 am from IST.

Regarding the B77W for Indigo, I always felt that these could not be coming from TK stock. There is just no room for that in the planned flying program of the B77W fleet. They should not have much trouble to source 3 aircraft on the market for this set up. I suspect that these aircraft will be sourced retired EK or CX fleets.

Tk LGJ finally out the hanger and on its way to Cape Town!
Anyone know what changes been done?

HB-IWC wrote:

TK787 wrote:

Couple of things:
-Dropping JFK frequencies with larger 777X/350X does not make sense to me. I think TK should/will go more frequencies with those larger planes, with all the money they are bringing in from the US routes.
-3 x 77Ws from some place else, not from TK fleet, for Indigo. Can someone confirm this?
Thank you.

Regarding JFK, I note that for the next peak summer season, TK is planning to down gauge the TK003/004 rotation to A333 equipment. Either, they are trying to do some revenue management with that specific flight by reducing available capacity. Alternatively, they are planning to add a fourth JFK rotation with a departure time around 10 am from IST.

Regarding the B77W for Indigo, I always felt that these could not be coming from TK stock. There is just no room for that in the planned flying program of the B77W fleet. They should not have much trouble to source 3 aircraft on the market for this set up. I suspect that these aircraft will be sourced retired EK or CX fleets.

What I don't get is, if they wet leased the aircraft from elsewhere, with crew and all, why didn't Indigo do this themselves? What kind of deal is this that TK sources planes and crew and further leases them to another airline?

leftyboarder wrote:

What I don't get is, if they wet leased the aircraft from elsewhere, with crew and all, why didn't Indigo do this themselves? What kind of deal is this that TK sources planes and crew and further leases them to another airline?

I am guessing because TK has the in-house operational experience and can relatively easy source and induct these 3 additional frames, while for Indigo this would be a completely new aircraft type. On top of that, TK gets relatively easy additional access to the Indian market, something they have been pursuing for quite a while.

Tkairlines wrote:

Tk LGJ finally out the hanger and on its way to Cape Town!
Anyone know what changes been done?

Retrofitted with TK cabin and livery? I've been waiting for so long for this (along with LGL who's also in a hangar).

Sent from my RMX2030 using Tapatalk

Was there really a retrofit? I thought they would just change the upholstery on seats.

calstanford wrote:

He sounds like someone who got his education at Imam Hatip Kartal.

I wish there was an option to like posts on anet. What conflicting messages that absolutely does not make any sense. Imagine if TK had a decent management with this much potential....

TK787 wrote:

Couple of things:
-Dropping JFK frequencies with larger 777X/350X does not make sense to me. I think TK should/will go more frequencies with those larger planes, with all the money they are bringing in from the US routes.
-3 x 77Ws from some place else, not from TK fleet, for Indigo. Can someone confirm this?
Thank you.

Couldn't agree more about JFK flights. I think the statements were made just to be made. Otherwise clearly the management itself have different opinions about how to run TK.

This past summer TK had a second BOS flight on three or four days of the week. Did that work well enough for them to do it again in S23?

chrisnh wrote:

This past summer TK had a second BOS flight on three or four days of the week. Did that work well enough for them to do it again in S23?

No additional flights have been loaded yet. For now, it is only the daily TK081/082 with A333. The reinforced frequencies may still be loaded later but Boston would be the only seasonal frequency that has not yet been loaded at this time. Additional seasonal frequencies to ATL, IAH, IAD, ORD, LAX and SFO have already been loaded, whereas SEA seems to be moving up to daily year-round. A number of aircraft changes have also already been loaded: TK003/004 JFK with A333 instead of B77W and TK185/186 ORD with A359 instead of B789.

A321Lufthansa wrote:

Was there really a retrofit? I thought they would just change the upholstery on seats.

According to Seat Alerts there wasn't any reconfiguration.

calcal wrote:

TK787 wrote:

calcal wrote:

Can you clarify how the new system help to reduce taxi time?

From what I understand from the article, "through automation". This is what google translate says:
"The new system consists of 6 radars and 51 multi-antenna systems. The system draws the route automatically."

My best guess is that the system recognizes the incoming aircraft during landing and auto-loads the route from the landing runway to its gate thus eliminating tower instructions.

Your guess is right. The new system is even more extensive as it's not only limited to taxi after landing, but also taxi to the runway before take off. It automatically detects aircraft and is creating the shortest available taxi route.

The new radar system, which btw is world's first in its kind, consists of 6 radars as well as 51 antennas and is aiming to reduce taxi times by 10-15% (+ reduce fuel consumption).

https://finans.mynet.com/haber/detay/ek ... ak/455267/ (in turkish)

A321Lufthansa wrote:

A321Lufthansa wrote:

Was there really a retrofit? I thought they would just change the upholstery on seats.

According to Seat Alerts there wasn't any reconfiguration.

As late as next year November, the Aeroflot configuration is still loaded for TK flights to, for instance, Cape Town. Still TC-LGJ has been in maintenance for almost 2 months, so I am wondering whether it has received the TK livery in that time.

HB-IWC wrote:

As late as next year November, the Aeroflot configuration is still loaded for TK flights to, for instance, Cape Town.

Regarding this winter season, they reduced the network of those A350 and will actually only use them on long-haul routes to Atlanta, Cape Town and Chicago.

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/221205-tknw23359

I remember reading that the ex Aeroflot frames will go back to TLS to be "refitted to TK standards". Maybe with that kind of reduced network, they'll reconfigure the aircraft one by one.

The TC-LUE, AnadoluJet's 5'th, is currently being transferred from Hamburg (XFW) to Istanbul (SAW), where it will then be painted.
• TC–LUE Airbus A321–271NX msn 10331 ex D-AYAB (ntu VN–A... VietJetAir)
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/tc-lue

Regarding, TK wet-leasing B77Ws to Indigo:

It does make sense that TK leases 2 or more likely 3 B77Ws from the market and sub leases thes to Indigo. Yet, the following is still under gray:

1) Where will both flight and ground support crews come from? Indigo, as a mainly Airbus 320 family operator has resources for non of these?
2) How will line maintenance be handled be carried out at DEL and BOM; Indigo has no such facilities and infrastructure for such? (Longer time taking and the more technically complicated base maintenance can be handled in IST; that's o.k.)
3) Indigo is practically a single-class (all economy) carrier? Ever yet heard of any B77Ws in single (economy) class cabin configuration? (And somehow in a similar taste with Indigo's cabin character?)
4) Last but not the least: as these operations are expected to start asap, where are these 2/3 B77Ws in TK colors as they will not taken from TK's own (current) 30+3=33 strong B77W fleet?

I think the above article states that they will be wet leased aka with crew. Also I doubt they will be in TK colors, TK seems to be only an intermediary in this lease as it is from a 3rd party to Indigo. They may be in semi Indigo livery maybe? I still don't get why Indigo wouldn't wet lease the a/c themselves, unless they are actually not going to pay for them and TK pays for them in return for access to Indian market?

TKflyer wrote:

The TC-LUE, AnadoluJet's 5'th, is currently being transferred from Hamburg (XFW) to Istanbul (SAW), where it will then be painted.
• TC–LUE Airbus A321–271NX msn 10331 ex D-AYAB (ntu VN–A... VietJetAir)
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/tc-lue

Interesting Planespotters has this one and LUA in Y240 sardine configuration where's LUB , LUC are same as S7 config C8Y203 https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Anadolu-Jet

Looking at Airbus O&D for November no 350 orders placed by TK https://www.airbus.com/en/products-serv ... deliveries

Does anyone know when or if the extra ten frames are to be ordered ?

My knowledge is that TC-LUA, B, C are all designated "D32" in the reservation system and are 240 seaters. TC-LUI and LUJ are 211 seaters (C8Y203) and designated as "A32"

leftyboarder wrote:

I think the above article states that they will be wet leased aka with crew. Also I doubt they will be in TK colors, TK seems to be only an intermediary in this lease as it is from a 3rd party to Indigo. They may be in semi Indigo livery maybe? I still don't get why Indigo wouldn't wet lease the a/c themselves, unless they are actually not going to pay for them and TK pays for them in return for access to Indian market?

I suspect it's all TK - 6E is only to gain the bilateral access. TK wet leases, operates, sells, maintains, everything. But done on 6E paper so it appears clean on the books.

But leasing from the market to further lease to 6E, incredibly convoluted IMO!

TK773ER wrote:

TKflyer wrote:

The TC-LUE, AnadoluJet's 5'th, is currently being transferred from Hamburg (XFW) to Istanbul (SAW), where it will then be painted.
• TC–LUE Airbus A321–271NX msn 10331 ex D-AYAB (ntu VN–A... VietJetAir)
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/tc-lue

Interesting Planespotters has this one and LUA in Y240 sardine configuration where's LUB , LUC are same as S7 config C8Y203 https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Anadolu-Jet

As far as I know, all new A321neos are delivered in their original configuration. However, after the conversion and painting program, they will receive the AnadoluJet standard cabin, C8Y203 with TCI Turkish Cabin Interior seats.

TKflyer wrote:

The TC-LUE, AnadoluJet's 5'th, is currently being transferred from Hamburg (XFW) to Istanbul (SAW), where it will then be painted.
• TC–LUE Airbus A321–271NX msn 10331 ex D-AYAB (ntu VN–A... VietJetAir)
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/tc-lue

Just one day after the deliverie of the 5‘th A321neo to AnadoluJet, the 6‘th was on the delivery Flight to Istanbul (SAW)
• TC–LUB Airbus A321–271NX msn 10272 ex D-AVXO (ntu VN–A... VietJetAir)
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/tc-lub


The A321neo Fleet of AnadoluJet
• TC-LUA Airbus A321-271NX, msn 10128, dd 28/11/2022
• TC-LUB Airbus A321-271NX, msn 10272, dd 07/12/2022
• TC-LUC Airbus A321-271NX, msn 10275, dd 26/10/2022
• TC-LUE Airbus A321-271NX, msn 10331, dd 06/12/2022
• TC-LU... Airbus A321-271NX, msn 10434
• TC-LUI Airbus A321-271NX, msn 10756, dd 02/09/2022
• TC-LUJ Airbus A321-271NX, msn 10883, du 07/07/2022
• TC-LUM Airbus A321-271NX, msn 10973

MNG Airlines has entered into an agreement to become publicly traded on the NYSE through a business combination with US based SPAC, Golden Falcon Acquisition.
The US$676 million transaction is expected to close in 1H 2023.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/t ... 022-12-07/