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visual8L
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 8:17 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines to fly between Hawaii and the Cook Islands

Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:55 pm

Is this the first carrier to serve since Canada 3000?
 
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RyanairGuru
Posts: 9472
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Hawaiian Airlines to fly between Hawaii and the Cook Islands

Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:08 pm

ScottB wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
OAHU747 wrote:
The 25hr ground time makes more sense as it'll be the same crew taking it out as it is bringing it in to RAR. The 25hrs will be their overnight.


That’s what it will be. I guess over the weekend it isn’t such an issue.


Since these flights are aimed at the tourism market, one potential issue may be the fact that visitors will have to stay eight days -- so assuming weeklong stays for guests from the U.S., the passengers on both the arriving flight and departing flight will overlap for Saturday night; i.e. there's double the demand for rooms on one night per week than for the other six. This may be less of an issue as long as the visitors arriving on HA are a relatively small fraction of the total number of visitors to Rarotonga.


The number of passengers arriving on HA would be a relatively small proportion of overall passengers, and while accommodation in the Cook Islands is fairly limited, this flight is unlikely to tip the scales. Most tourists arrive on the 3x daily NZ flights from AKL, plus Jetstar also fly AKL-RAR. While VFR is huge between New Zealand and Cook Islands, New Zealand is also - by far - the largest source of tourists to the Cook Islands. Because of multiple flight options, those passengers aren’t necessarily staying for one week, so room availability can vary from day to day.

As it is, 8 nights could actually suit high-end customers staying in Aitutaki quite well. The flight arrives in RAR late, so passengers would have to spend the first night on Rarotonga, but still have seven nights on Aitutaki.
Last edited by RyanairGuru on Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Hawaiian Airlines to fly between Hawaii and the Cook Islands

Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:27 pm

visual8L wrote:
Is this the first carrier to serve since Canada 3000?


I assume you mean the first flights from North America? Air New Zealand flew RAR-LAX for decades until Covid, and is scheduled to re-start in May 2023.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 9391
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines to fly between Hawaii and the Cook Islands

Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:27 pm

visual8L wrote:
Is this the first carrier to serve since Canada 3000?


Forgot about them, I think they flew 2000-02 or something? RAR-HNL that is.

NZ flew it until 2001 so perhaps C3 was after NZ dropped it?
Last edited by ZK-NBT on Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 9391
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines to fly between Hawaii and the Cook Islands

Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:28 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
visual8L wrote:
Is this the first carrier to serve since Canada 3000?


I assume you mean the first flights from North America? Air New Zealand flew RAR-LAX for decades until Covid, and is scheduled to re-start in May 2023.


NZ aren’t restarting RAR-LAX, they are re starting RAR-SYD however in March 2023. Hence the HA service.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Hawaiian Airlines to fly between Hawaii and the Cook Islands

Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:30 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
visual8L wrote:
Is this the first carrier to serve since Canada 3000?


I assume you mean the first flights from North America? Air New Zealand flew RAR-LAX for decades until Covid, and is scheduled to re-start in May 2023.


NZ aren’t restarting RAR-LAX, they are re starting RAR-SYD however in March 2023. Hence the HA service.


You’re right, I confused LAX and SYD. Apologies.
 
Lamp1009
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:36 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines to fly between Hawaii and the Cook Islands

Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:09 am

MavyWavyATR wrote:
x1234 wrote:
There must be some subsidy for this route. Can the A321neo fly HNL-GUM with full payload? The islanders in Guam are SICK of the UA monopoly.


May be pushing it too close with the standard Neo's capability, especially with ETOPS. If HA had the LR, it should be a bit better. The XLR though wouldn't have a problem I believe. Speaking of...it's honestly surprising that HA hasn't jumped into the "Island Hopper" route.


Why would they? UA can barely fill the planes. You're never going to get competition in the pacific outside of Hawaii, especially since so much is going underwater.
 
smi0006
Posts: 3202
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Hawaiian Airlines to fly between Hawaii and the Cook Islands

Sat Dec 03, 2022 6:10 am

zkncj wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
PA110 wrote:

The plane only sits on the ground for a little over an hour.
HA 495 departs HNL 16:00, arrives RAR 22:25
HA 496 departs RAR 23:35, arrives HNL 05:50 +1


Was gonna say, leaving a brand new, expensive airplane on tarmac that long would be crazy. If the flight is 6.5 hours each way, that is 26 pilot hours. Possibly that could be crewed with 3 pilots? Not sure, but just saying that would be easier than letting a NEO sit 24 hours.

Edit: well I still think it’s crazy if they indeed sitting 25 hours.


Which makes me wonder if they are planning to extend the flight on beyond RAR. But just waiting for approval to do so.

The Cook Islands are technically part of New Zealand, so getting rights to fly onto AKL shouldn’t be too hard.

Or they could look at extending it to NAN.

When NZ still had International 733s they had a weekly RAR-NAN service.


I would have said SYD, but with JQ entering the market won’t be enough room for two.

Long shot - BNE, or MEL? Does HA fly into BNE post pandemic again? Once weekly is just a bit awkward for anything… kinda worked for NZ as SYD was once weekly and AKL connections were an alternative. But 25hrs on the ground is weird utilisation, especially in this day and age, even if a route is highly underwritten, return on capital is better anywhere than on the ground. And no maintain could be done on RAR….
 
Amfleet82
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:17 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines to fly between Hawaii and the Cook Islands

Sat Dec 03, 2022 12:09 pm

My wife and I did LAX-RAR and RAR-AKL a week later back in 2013.

Oddly enough the 763 out of LAX was filled with Canadians on package holidays. Shockingly few Americans onboard.

Adam
 
iridescent
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun May 30, 2021 1:22 am

Re: Hawaiian Airlines to fly between Hawaii and the Cook Islands

Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:38 am

visual8L wrote:
Is this the first carrier to serve since Canada 3000?


Aloha Airlines operated the HNL-RAR-HNL route for a few years from Dec 2002 to Dec 2004 using 73W. The schedule was paired with HNL-YVR-HNL flights and went something like this:

Mon: HNL-RAR 3:00pm - 9:08pm AQ321
Tue: Layover
Wed: RAR-HNL 4:00am - 10:08am AQ322

https://www.ewansmithphoto.com/Galleries/Aviation/i-8mrM52B/A
 
visual8L
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 8:17 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines to fly between Hawaii and the Cook Islands

Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:59 am

iridescent wrote:
visual8L wrote:
Is this the first carrier to serve since Canada 3000?


Aloha Airlines operated the HNL-RAR-HNL route for a few years from Dec 2002 to Dec 2004 using 73W. The schedule was paired with HNL-YVR-HNL flights and went something like this:

Mon: HNL-RAR 3:00pm - 9:08pm AQ321
Tue: Layover
Wed: RAR-HNL 4:00am - 10:08am AQ322

https://www.ewansmithphoto.com/Galleries/Aviation/i-8mrM52B/A


Thanks!
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 9391
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines to fly between Hawaii and the Cook Islands

Mon Dec 05, 2022 6:51 am

iridescent wrote:
visual8L wrote:
Is this the first carrier to serve since Canada 3000?


Aloha Airlines operated the HNL-RAR-HNL route for a few years from Dec 2002 to Dec 2004 using 73W. The schedule was paired with HNL-YVR-HNL flights and went something like this:

Mon: HNL-RAR 3:00pm - 9:08pm AQ321
Tue: Layover
Wed: RAR-HNL 4:00am - 10:08am AQ322

https://www.ewansmithphoto.com/Galleries/Aviation/i-8mrM52B/A


Interesting, I wasn’t aware of that one.
 
phatfarmlines
Posts: 2420
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:06 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines to fly between Hawaii and the Cook Islands

Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:53 am

tvh wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
OAHU747 wrote:
HNL-RAR is almost exactly the same distance as HNL-PHX and the A321NEO does fine on that.

Not saying it can't do it, but HNL-PHX has alternates which need to be taken in to account for HNL-RAR. Probaby PPG, TRW and PPT would be the most likely.


The A321xlr can likely do LAX-RAR. Something for AA?


Even better might be an opportunity for HA to do some P2P LAX-Polynesia flying if they purchased the 321XLR.
 
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Polot
Posts: 13991
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines to fly between Hawaii and the Cook Islands

Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:10 pm

phatfarmlines wrote:
tvh wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
Not saying it can't do it, but HNL-PHX has alternates which need to be taken in to account for HNL-RAR. Probaby PPG, TRW and PPT would be the most likely.


The A321xlr can likely do LAX-RAR. Something for AA?


Even better might be an opportunity for HA to do some P2P LAX-Polynesia flying if they purchased the 321XLR.

Don’t really see what’s in it for HA.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7949
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Hawaiian Airlines to fly between Hawaii and the Cook Islands

Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:44 pm

Polot wrote:
phatfarmlines wrote:
Even better might be an opportunity for HA to do some P2P LAX-Polynesia flying if they purchased the 321XLR.

Don’t really see what’s in it for HA.


Well it's certainly more fancy than just setting money on fire.
 
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seat55a
Posts: 266
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:18 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines to fly between Hawaii and the Cook Islands

Mon Dec 05, 2022 5:00 pm

iridescent wrote:


Wow what a treasure trove!
 
WorldFlier
Posts: 479
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:10 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines to fly between Hawaii and the Cook Islands

Mon Dec 05, 2022 9:27 pm

Lamp1009 wrote:
MavyWavyATR wrote:
x1234 wrote:
There must be some subsidy for this route. Can the A321neo fly HNL-GUM with full payload? The islanders in Guam are SICK of the UA monopoly.


May be pushing it too close with the standard Neo's capability, especially with ETOPS. If HA had the LR, it should be a bit better. The XLR though wouldn't have a problem I believe. Speaking of...it's honestly surprising that HA hasn't jumped into the "Island Hopper" route.


Why would they? UA can barely fill the planes. You're never going to get competition in the pacific outside of Hawaii, especially since so much is going underwater.


It is not going underwater in the timeframe of airline scheduling.
 
Lamp1009
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:36 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines to fly between Hawaii and the Cook Islands

Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:30 am

WorldFlier wrote:
Lamp1009 wrote:
MavyWavyATR wrote:

May be pushing it too close with the standard Neo's capability, especially with ETOPS. If HA had the LR, it should be a bit better. The XLR though wouldn't have a problem I believe. Speaking of...it's honestly surprising that HA hasn't jumped into the "Island Hopper" route.


Why would they? UA can barely fill the planes. You're never going to get competition in the pacific outside of Hawaii, especially since so much is going underwater.


It is not going underwater in the timeframe of airline scheduling.


The point is that demand is not growing. No one is moving to Majuro or anywhere in Micronesia for that matter. If UA can't fill a 737, why would there be room for a competitor?

Also the atolls could very well be underwater within the next decade or so due to erosion.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7949
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Hawaiian Airlines to fly between Hawaii and the Cook Islands

Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:09 am

Lamp1009 wrote:
The point is that demand is not growing. No one is moving to Majuro or anywhere in Micronesia for that matter. If UA can't fill a 737, why would there be room for a competitor?

Also the atolls could very well be underwater within the next decade or so due to erosion.


The atolls may be threatened in the next several decades, but the main islands in the FSM & Palau are actually pretty tall.

Majuro isn't going to be underwater in a decade although a half-century is another matter.
 
WorldFlier
Posts: 479
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:10 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines to fly between Hawaii and the Cook Islands

Tue Dec 06, 2022 3:05 pm

ScottB wrote:
Lamp1009 wrote:
The point is that demand is not growing. No one is moving to Majuro or anywhere in Micronesia for that matter. If UA can't fill a 737, why would there be room for a competitor?

Also the atolls could very well be underwater within the next decade or so due to erosion.


The atolls may be threatened in the next several decades, but the main islands in the FSM & Palau are actually pretty tall.

Majuro isn't going to be underwater in a decade although a half-century is another matter.



Don't let facts get in the way of him standing on the soap box, and again airlines don't seem to have stopped flying to the Maldives even those are already under water according to some.
 
bchandl
Posts: 724
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:49 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines to fly between Hawaii and the Cook Islands

Tue Dec 06, 2022 3:46 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
OAHU747 wrote:
HNL-RAR is almost exactly the same distance as HNL-PHX and the A321NEO does fine on that.

Not saying it can't do it, but HNL-PHX has alternates which need to be taken in to account for HNL-RAR. Probaby PPG, TRW and PPT would be the most likely.


There's more diversion alternate options on HNL-RAR than there is HNL-PHX. Outside of SoCal, the options for HNL-PHX are really returning to origin or continuing to your destination

HNL-RAR has a smattering of alternatives along the route, including Kiribati which is perfectly suited halfway along the route.

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