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vaughanparry
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Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Fri Dec 02, 2022 7:34 pm

There's much to unpack in this article from the UK's Telegraph newspaper:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/trav ... years-ago/

Sample paragraph: "Furthermore, airlines are more conscious than ever of their fuel bills – and have in recent years adjusted their aircraft’s cruising speeds accordingly. In 2013 Ryanair told its pilots to save cash by going more slowly – adding two minutes to every hour’s flying time. In 2008 Associated Press reported that when the same tactic was used by American airline JetBlue it saved $13.6 million a year."

Over to you guys...
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Fri Dec 02, 2022 7:36 pm

We're all thinking it, so somebody has to say it... it has never been the same since Concorde stopped flying
 
B6twufa
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Fri Dec 02, 2022 7:52 pm

Schedule padding; crew costs; Cost Index 35; Fuel being the bigger expenditure of airlines.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Fri Dec 02, 2022 7:54 pm

vaughanparry wrote:
There's much to unpack in this article from the UK's Telegraph newspaper:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/trav ... years-ago/

Sample paragraph: "Furthermore, airlines are more conscious than ever of their fuel bills – and have in recent years adjusted their aircraft’s cruising speeds accordingly. In 2013 Ryanair told its pilots to save cash by going more slowly – adding two minutes to every hour’s flying time. In 2008 Associated Press reported that when the same tactic was used by American airline JetBlue it saved $13.6 million a year."

Over to you guys...


You don’t necessarily save gas by flying slower. The slower you go the more you pull the nose up. The more you pull the nose up the more induced drag you get. The more induced drag the the more thrust needed.
I used to save more gas flying faster (within reason).

2.5 degrees nose up is about the best AOA for a jet.
 
ReverseFlow
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Fri Dec 02, 2022 7:58 pm

It's not only flight times but scheduled times have gotten longer. That way the airline has a bigger chance of being on time or even early.
 
santi319
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:11 pm

Because air traffic is at least 100% more than 25 years ago… I mean
 
flightsimer
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:33 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
vaughanparry wrote:
There's much to unpack in this article from the UK's Telegraph newspaper:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/trav ... years-ago/

Sample paragraph: "Furthermore, airlines are more conscious than ever of their fuel bills – and have in recent years adjusted their aircraft’s cruising speeds accordingly. In 2013 Ryanair told its pilots to save cash by going more slowly – adding two minutes to every hour’s flying time. In 2008 Associated Press reported that when the same tactic was used by American airline JetBlue it saved $13.6 million a year."

Over to you guys...


You don’t necessarily save gas by flying slower. The slower you go the more you pull the nose up. The more you pull the nose up the more induced drag you get. The more induced drag the the more thrust needed.
I used to save more gas flying faster (within reason).

2.5 degrees nose up is about the best AOA for a jet.

I don’t know what you are flying… but I can tell you the difference between flying at .76 and .80 in the E195 is about a 400-500Lbs difference per hour in fuel burn depending on the weight and altitude, with .80 being the higher of the two. The difference in deck angle at those two speeds are mostly imperceivable.

If your flying a Cost index, you absolutely save money flying slower as it not only factors in fuel cost, but maintenance and crew costs as well. Cost index’s tend to average out an operations overall cost as those days where you have a strong tailwind you slow down and reduce your fuel burn while maintaining the same schedule integrity.
 
EFHK
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:38 pm

I can't understand the criticism towards this. Scheduled flight times being long enough to guarantee an adequately high on-time arrival rate (and onward connections) sounds like a win-win to me.

Funniest thing is that some companies specializing in EU delay compensation are marketing this phenomenon to press media as "airlines trying to "cheat" with paying delay compensation", and the saddest part is that at least sometimes the press buys it and believes that it's a problem.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:44 pm

flightsimer wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
vaughanparry wrote:
There's much to unpack in this article from the UK's Telegraph newspaper:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/trav ... years-ago/

Sample paragraph: "Furthermore, airlines are more conscious than ever of their fuel bills – and have in recent years adjusted their aircraft’s cruising speeds accordingly. In 2013 Ryanair told its pilots to save cash by going more slowly – adding two minutes to every hour’s flying time. In 2008 Associated Press reported that when the same tactic was used by American airline JetBlue it saved $13.6 million a year."


Over to you guys...


You don’t necessarily save gas by flying slower. The slower you go the more you pull the nose up. The more you pull the nose up the more induced drag you get. The more induced drag the the more thrust needed.
I used to save more gas flying faster (within reason).

2.5 degrees nose up is about the best AOA for a jet.

I don’t know what you are flying… but I can tell you the difference between flying at .76 and .80 in the E195 is about a 400-500Lbs difference per hour in fuel burn depending on the weight and altitude, with .80 being the higher of the two. The difference in deck angle at those two speeds are mostly imperceivable.

If your flying a Cost index, you absolutely save money flying slower as it not only factors in fuel cost, but maintenance and crew costs as well. Cost index’s tend to average out an operations overall cost as those days where you have a strong tailwind you slow down and reduce your fuel burn while maintaining the same schedule integrity.


I’m aware of CI and how it saves money. I’m simply replying to the concept that slower you fly the more fuel you save. That concept is wrong.

My last aircraft was the 787 flying between .848 and .858 is best fuel economy. A CI of 30 at my airline was .840 and if I flew .85 I would beat the burn on my OFP by +2000 on a regular basis.

However if I flew above .86 I burned more fuel and above .87 the cruise flaps would lock out and we burned gas like a 727.
 
Western727
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:46 pm

ReverseFlow wrote:
It's not only flight times but scheduled times have gotten longer. That way the airline has a bigger chance of being on time or even early.


Had this type of experience on a BA 320 FCO-LHR flight that pushed back 30 min late, made 3 circuits in a holding pattern near LHR and yet arrived only 7 min late.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:54 pm

B6twufa wrote:
Schedule padding; crew costs; Cost Index 35; Fuel being the bigger expenditure of airlines.


The OP's link is behind a paywall. Is The Telegraph talking about flight times takeoff-touchdown, or scheduled times?

Widebody jets don't fly the speeds they used to.

Cruise speeds from Delta's Flight Museum pages:

747, 625 mph
A350, 551mph

https://www.deltamuseum.org/exhibits/de ... 17-present
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:59 pm

There is much more ground congestion than there was 25 years ago.
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:08 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
B6twufa wrote:
Schedule padding; crew costs; Cost Index 35; Fuel being the bigger expenditure of airlines.


The OP's link is behind a paywall. Is The Telegraph talking about flight times takeoff-touchdown, or scheduled times?

Widebody jets don't fly the speeds they used to.

Cruise speeds from Delta's Flight Museum pages:

747, 625 mph
A350, 551mph

https://www.deltamuseum.org/exhibits/de ... 17-present

Doesn’t pass the smell test.

625mph = M0.95
551mph = M0.83

Wide body jets on the whole fly faster than they did, the exception being the 747. The 90s wide bodies went 0.82-0.84 the 21st century jets all go 0.85 as a standard.

There is more congestion in the sky and on the ground increasing block times, the speed of the plane through the air isn’t getting slower.

Fred


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Kno
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:28 pm

Same reason driving takes longer. There’s more traffic!
 
miegapele
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:42 pm

I heard somewhere that AA1 NYC-LAX was 5:45 in 60's on 707, now it's 6:30. Airport congestion, traffic congestion, more people flying, all makes things slower.
 
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LX015
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:43 pm

ReverseFlow wrote:
It's not only flight times but scheduled times have gotten longer. That way the airline has a bigger chance of being on time or even early.


We have a winner!
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:04 pm

I would imagine the huge number of flights now compared to 25 years ago plus using essential the exact same ATC systems are more likely why flight times have stretched.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:36 pm

Planes are just slower a 737/A320 is slower than a 747

A 777/A350 usually slightly slower to but not as much
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Sat Dec 03, 2022 12:53 am

The sky is far more crowd than before
 
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N62NA
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:26 am

miegapele wrote:
I heard somewhere that AA1 NYC-LAX was 5:45 in 60's on 707, now it's 6:30. Airport congestion, traffic congestion, more people flying, all makes things slower.


In 1974, AA3 JFK 12:00p-LAX 2:40p was 5:40 on a 747-100.
Today, AA331 JFK 11:29a-LAX 2:52p is 6:27 on an A321-200.

In 1975, NA81 JFK 9:55a-MIA 12:30p was 2:35 on a 747-100.
Today, AA449 JFK 9:25a-MIA 12:59p is 3:35 on a 737-MAX8.
 
Acey
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:27 am

Extending the block time generally works, until you encounter no departure delay and land at ORD 40 minutes early and get to enjoy the penalty box until your gate is open.
 
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vhtje
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:37 am

Traffic, and congestion, I should think, are the main culprits, rather than any technological changes to aircraft. I know I have done transcon flights where we’ve done a loop at cruising altitude over the middle states, presumably just to slow us down.
 
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eurotrader85
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Sat Dec 03, 2022 10:09 am

EFHK wrote:
I can't understand the criticism towards this. Scheduled flight times being long enough to guarantee an adequately high on-time arrival rate (and onward connections) sounds like a win-win to me.

Funniest thing is that some companies specializing in EU delay compensation are marketing this phenomenon to press media as "airlines trying to "cheat" with paying delay compensation", and the saddest part is that at least sometimes the press buys it and believes that it's a problem.


But that's exactly what they are doing. Airlines lobbied against having to pay EU compensation and when, for once, the consumer won, the airlines have padded their schedules so they will always make the 'declared arrival time'. It's not a win when you sit down, told your pushback is delayed 40 minutes, you then sit off stand for another 20, and then just happen to arrive 'on time'. You've lost an hour of your time even if technically you've arrived on time. A win-win would look airlines departing promptly, on time, flying aeroplanes which are quicker, getting you to the destination, and/or, your connection/earlier connection quicker i.e. shorter flight times.
 
PhilipBass
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Sat Dec 03, 2022 10:39 am

I don't see much padding on a route like Dublin Faro which at cruise speed would be reached in about 2h12 according to GCMap. the time published is 2h50m.
Dublin Faro would be fairly empty sky with not too many ATC issues.
 
lhrsfosyd
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:04 am

The article doesn't mention that 40 years ago punctuality targets were non existent. Airlines published unrealistic schedules to compete with one another. The flying times haven't increased but the schedule padding did.
 
f4f3a
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:34 am

Planes slower skies more conjested . Airports probably where biggest delays are in taxi times and holding waiting to land
 
USAirKid
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:41 am

Back in 1980 TransAmerica flight 209 went from ORD to LAX inside of 87 minutes as documented on film at the time.

Now United, American, and Spirt all have this flight at about 281 minutes, which is an amazing increase.

Surely, airline CEO's can't be this serious about saving money.
 
miegapele
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:56 am

USAirKid wrote:
Back in 1980 TransAmerica flight 209 went from ORD to LAX inside of 87 minutes as documented on film at the time.

Did it? That looks Concorde speed and even too fast for that?
 
Amfleet82
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Sat Dec 03, 2022 12:05 pm

Acey wrote:
Extending the block time generally works, until you encounter no departure delay and land at ORD 40 minutes early and get to enjoy the penalty box until your gate is open.


We jokingly refer to this amongst my wife and friends as the “earlylate,”. You might think you’re fancy, arriving in ORD 40 min early…but you’ll eventually wait so long for a gate you actually arrive 20 min late…

Adam
 
AtomicGarden
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Sat Dec 03, 2022 12:29 pm

Amfleet82 wrote:
Acey wrote:
Extending the block time generally works, until you encounter no departure delay and land at ORD 40 minutes early and get to enjoy the penalty box until your gate is open.


We jokingly refer to this amongst my wife and friends as the “earlylate,”. You might think you’re fancy, arriving in ORD 40 min early…but you’ll eventually wait so long for a gate you actually arrive 20 min late…

Adam


Can't people unboard by stairs and use a bus to get to the terminal?

Question: if I drive my car at 60 kmh it will comsume more fuel than going at 90 kmh or so, but if I go up to 130, it gets thirsty again (I do know gears play a role in it and can and usually drive on 4th/5th with my stick VW). Do airplanes work that way too?
 
Swed3120
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Sat Dec 03, 2022 12:58 pm

PhilipBass wrote:
I don't see much padding on a route like Dublin Faro which at cruise speed would be reached in about 2h12 according to GCMap. the time published is 2h50m.
Dublin Faro would be fairly empty sky with not too many ATC issues.


Dub-FAO is actually quite a congested route, a lot of the time you can see UK/IRE - Canaria’s/Portugal flight take a larger detour around France and cont.Europe airspace tll on avoid congestion and delays.
Even though the most direct route for EDI-TFS is London - France-Spain , most of the time jet2 and FR will fly out to Belfast or cork and then make a left turn to the south to avoid France. This could also be due to overflight fees though…
 
Swed3120
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:00 pm

Realistically airports have a lot to do with this, during the pandemic when traffic levels in Europe where roughly equal to the 1970s, my commuting route of LHR-ZRH was scheduled at 1:25 or 1:35, now it’s back up to 1:55 with some circuits even seeing 2:15 scheduled during peak times
 
johns624
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:17 pm

USAirKid wrote:
Back in 1980 TransAmerica flight 209 went from ORD to LAX inside of 87 minutes as documented on film at the time.

BS--1700+ miles in 87 minutes is 1170mph.
 
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Polot
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:26 pm

johns624 wrote:
USAirKid wrote:
Back in 1980 TransAmerica flight 209 went from ORD to LAX inside of 87 minutes as documented on film at the time.

BS--1700+ miles in 87 minutes is 1170mph.


miegapele wrote:
USAirKid wrote:
Back in 1980 TransAmerica flight 209 went from ORD to LAX inside of 87 minutes as documented on film at the time.

Did it? That looks Concorde speed and even too fast for that?

I think he was making a joke about the movie Airplane! (Which is 87 minutes long and release in 1980 and features the fictitious airline TransAmerican). The flight was going LAX-ORD though not the other way around.
 
digitalcloud
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:46 pm

Swed3120 wrote:
PhilipBass wrote:
I don't see much padding on a route like Dublin Faro which at cruise speed would be reached in about 2h12 according to GCMap. the time published is 2h50m.
Dublin Faro would be fairly empty sky with not too many ATC issues.


Dub-FAO is actually quite a congested route, a lot of the time you can see UK/IRE - Canaria’s/Portugal flight take a larger detour around France and cont.Europe airspace tll on avoid congestion and delays.
Even though the most direct route for EDI-TFS is London - France-Spain , most of the time jet2 and FR will fly out to Belfast or cork and then make a left turn to the south to avoid France. This could also be due to overflight fees though…


That is far closer to the most direct route than London-France-Spain:

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=GLA-TFS
 
sldispatcher
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:23 pm

As a side note, the 727's used to be a big part of the domestic fleet, and they cruised at speeds higher (weren't they typically around .82?) than the current lineup of A32x and 73x series narrowbodies and tight fuel monitoring at .78.

With those gone, the flight times have to be more on all of those domestic pairs.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Sat Dec 03, 2022 5:04 pm

Nah, so-so. The B727, when I wrenched it in the mid-80s, typically was planned at .80-.81 for fuel cost reasons. Yes, it could do .86; but at huge fuel cost. Every M.01 equals 1 minute of cruise time, plus or minus, per 600nm. So, the Tri-motor at M.82 versus an A320 at M.78 is reducing enroute cruise a whole 4 minutes every 600nm. Barely noticeable.
 
USAirKid
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:12 pm

Polot wrote:
I think he was making a joke about the movie Airplane! (Which is 87 minutes long and release in 1980 and features the fictitious airline TransAmerican). The flight was going LAX-ORD though not the other way around.


Surely you cant be serious about which way that plane went... My memory is fading.
 
26point2
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:31 pm

Acey wrote:
Extending the block time generally works, until you encounter no departure delay and land at ORD 40 minutes early and get to enjoy the penalty box until your gate is open.


I understand the logistics challenge in this case but WHY do the pilots always have to proudly announce “Well folks, looks like we got you to your destination 20 mins early” when they certainly know the gate is occupied? It’s an arrogant thing to announce. Passengers don’t care about your early arrival, we just want to get off the plane. That’s when we have arrived.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:48 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
flightsimer wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:

You don’t necessarily save gas by flying slower. The slower you go the more you pull the nose up. The more you pull the nose up the more induced drag you get. The more induced drag the the more thrust needed.
I used to save more gas flying faster (within reason).

2.5 degrees nose up is about the best AOA for a jet.

I don’t know what you are flying… but I can tell you the difference between flying at .76 and .80 in the E195 is about a 400-500Lbs difference per hour in fuel burn depending on the weight and altitude, with .80 being the higher of the two. The difference in deck angle at those two speeds are mostly imperceivable.

If your flying a Cost index, you absolutely save money flying slower as it not only factors in fuel cost, but maintenance and crew costs as well. Cost index’s tend to average out an operations overall cost as those days where you have a strong tailwind you slow down and reduce your fuel burn while maintaining the same schedule integrity.


I’m aware of CI and how it saves money. I’m simply replying to the concept that slower you fly the more fuel you save. That concept is wrong.

My last aircraft was the 787 flying between .848 and .858 is best fuel economy. A CI of 30 at my airline was .840 and if I flew .85 I would beat the burn on my OFP by +2000 on a regular basis.

However if I flew above .86 I burned more fuel and above .87 the cruise flaps would lock out and we burned gas like a 727.


Kinda like cars where around 87 km/h is the optimal speed for many vehicles...and this is true for EVs too.

Another time padding reason is longer ground taxi times in average at hubs vs 25-30 years ago.
 
EFHK
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:12 pm

eurotrader85 wrote:
EFHK wrote:
I can't understand the criticism towards this. Scheduled flight times being long enough to guarantee an adequately high on-time arrival rate (and onward connections) sounds like a win-win to me.

Funniest thing is that some companies specializing in EU delay compensation are marketing this phenomenon to press media as "airlines trying to "cheat" with paying delay compensation", and the saddest part is that at least sometimes the press buys it and believes that it's a problem.


But that's exactly what they are doing. Airlines lobbied against having to pay EU compensation and when, for once, the consumer won, the airlines have padded their schedules so they will always make the 'declared arrival time'. It's not a win when you sit down, told your pushback is delayed 40 minutes, you then sit off stand for another 20, and then just happen to arrive 'on time'. You've lost an hour of your time even if technically you've arrived on time. A win-win would look airlines departing promptly, on time, flying aeroplanes which are quicker, getting you to the destination, and/or, your connection/earlier connection quicker i.e. shorter flight times.


I absolutely disagree with this. To me, what is promised to the consumer is an on-time arrival (and onward connections), and anything that the airline can do to secure this is beneficial.

I actually find it absolutely ridiculous to criticize airlines for paying due diligence, and padding their schedules to ensure that they can make the schedules that they're promising for.
 
FLYFIRSTCLASS
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:53 pm

Because we no longer have Joe Patroni in the maintenance department giving the airplanes a good dose of octane booster and Captain Vernon Demerest, a well documented WW2 Ace flying them!
 
joeman
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:41 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
flightsimer wrote:

Another time padding reason is longer ground taxi times in average at hubs vs 25-30 years ago.

Primarily at hubs, many U.S. destinations have been dropped completely in the new world and more stagnant growth places have about as many flights these days as they did circa1960
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:28 am

And all of this of course fails to take into account the time savings from the incredible range increases we've seen in ever-smaller aircraft.

Try flying from the east coast to HKG, from the west coast to India, for from anywhere other than California to Australia/Oceania, 25yrs ago.... and then let's talk about "flight times."
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:55 am

Acey wrote:
Extending the block time generally works, until you encounter no departure delay and land at ORD 40 minutes early and get to enjoy the penalty box until your gate is open.


LOL and it happens all the time back when HKG-ORD is still a thing. The UA flight always arrived like 1 hour early just to have to wait like 30mins for a gate :(.

LAX772LR wrote:
And all of this of course fails to take into account the time savings from the incredible range increases we've seen in ever-smaller aircraft.

Try flying from the east coast to HKG, from the west coast to India, for from anywhere other than California to Australia/Oceania, 25yrs ago.... and then let's talk about "flight times."


This plus (before the pandemic) the presence of hub to secondary cities long-haul routes thanks to the like of 787.

P.S. I'm old enough to remember CO starting EWR-HKG with 772ER (not 772LR :)) and flew on that route in May 2000. No more technical stop in west coast like CX's JFK-YVR-HKG :).
 
SaintBroseph
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Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:01 pm

eurotrader85 wrote:
EFHK wrote:
I can't understand the criticism towards this. Scheduled flight times being long enough to guarantee an adequately high on-time arrival rate (and onward connections) sounds like a win-win to me.

Funniest thing is that some companies specializing in EU delay compensation are marketing this phenomenon to press media as "airlines trying to "cheat" with paying delay compensation", and the saddest part is that at least sometimes the press buys it and believes that it's a problem.


But that's exactly what they are doing. Airlines lobbied against having to pay EU compensation and when, for once, the consumer won, the airlines have padded their schedules so they will always make the 'declared arrival time'. It's not a win when you sit down, told your pushback is delayed 40 minutes, you then sit off stand for another 20, and then just happen to arrive 'on time'. You've lost an hour of your time even if technically you've arrived on time. A win-win would look airlines departing promptly, on time, flying aeroplanes which are quicker, getting you to the destination, and/or, your connection/earlier connection quicker i.e. shorter flight times.

Such a non-issue LOL. Just book an earlier ticket or take the boat like people of yore.
 
User avatar
DPeter27
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:46 pm

Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:35 pm

I find this topic funny in the sense that in today's microwave instant demand world, the end of life seems to be a slightly slower travel time by air. 60 years ago, speed was the point of it all as jets were blowing away the props and it was the jet age. But today, come on. We need to slow down a little in life. And who cares if a flight takes 10 minutes longer than it did 15 years ago. You still didn't have to drive 2, 4, 10 hours to get there. Want to get that time back, want to fly faster, then cough up more money for your ticket. Stop expecting to be a world traveler with first class seat expectations while only wanting to pay taxi cab fare in some cases. Fuel, especially today, costs a lot. And planes use a lot. Chill people, life's good and you'll still get there in a timely manner. Sit back and enjoy the ride. Just my opinion.
 
User avatar
CARST
Posts: 1591
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:00 pm

Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:40 pm

Two words and one number...


COST INDEX 0



p.s. Feel lucky if your airline allows you to go above zero in cases where you don't have to make up delays.
 
User avatar
Ty134A
Posts: 564
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:21 am

Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Sun Dec 04, 2022 1:16 pm

That should answer pretty much all your questions:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=NEKN8sFjHdk
 
QAT
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:43 pm

Re: Why are today's flight times longer than 25 years ago?

Sun Dec 04, 2022 1:35 pm

Every technical problem listed in this thread is solvable. So the real question is, why haven't they been solved? It is not a law of nature that LAX-ORD takes 4 hours gate to gate. May be relevant that a huge fraction of aviation R&D is spent on meeting government emissions and noise regs instead of benefitting the pax who provide airline revenue.

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