Major boost for the E295 programme if Embrear pulls off this deal.
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... ets-report

Interesting, wonder if this is just SAG/Scoot scouting out all manufacturers for new aircraft or whether they're specifically interested in the E2.

If it's the latter, can somewhat see the logic, the 195-E2 in particular is perfect for low-cost hub-and-spoke ops, hence would work well for Scoot's SIN ops.

That would be great news for both Embraer and Scoot / Singapore Airlines. But the article seems to mix up the E190-E2 and the E195-E2.

I wonder which version they will go for.

Does SIN have any gate or slot constraints? I would thought these aircraft almost too small for Scoot, or building a hub in SIN.

So this is why 3K were moved to T4....

Would be a massive order if Embraer gets this over the line

TC957 wrote:

Major boost for the E295 programme if Embrear pulls off this deal.
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... ets-report

what is an E-295? I've never seen one.

strfyr51 wrote:

TC957 wrote:

Major boost for the E295 programme if Embrear pulls off this deal.
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... ets-report

what is an E-295? I've never seen one.

It's the type designator for the Embraer E195-E2

Sent from my RMX2030 using Tapatalk

smi0006 wrote:

Does SIN have any gate or slot constraints? I would thought these aircraft almost too small for Scoot, or building a hub in SIN.

They are in the process of building another new terminal, and reconfiguring the center runway. That being said this aircraft does not make sense to me for Scoot for SIN.

dhdaviation wrote:

strfyr51 wrote:

TC957 wrote:

Major boost for the E295 programme if Embrear pulls off this deal.
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... ets-report

what is an E-295? I've never seen one.

It's the type designator for the Embraer E195-E2

Sent from my RMX2030 using Tapatalk

This is all getting more and more confusing! I saw E295 and got excited that maybe Embraer was working on a new plane. So, is it official the E295 now, or is it the E195-E2? I'm waiting for someone to say Embraer is gonna call the newest E195-E2 the E195-R2D2, E295-ER2D2!

I fail to see how adding even more complexity to Scoot with a 3rd type is going to help them. I don’t think there are that many under/unserved smaller destinations around Asean to warrant such an order.

Plus if Changi gave the boot to Jetstar to « more efficiently utilise gates » and ends up shoving them with ejets that would be perfect at T4 then I’d imagine there would quite a few questions raised.

I wonder what small cities they are targeting.. Maybe they are planning some kind of big expansion, otherwise this makes no sense.. Historically Regional aircraft haven't done well in Asia..

F9Animal wrote:

This is all getting more and more confusing! I saw E295 and got excited that maybe Embraer was working on a new plane. So, is it official the E295 now, or is it the E195-E2? I'm waiting for someone to say Embraer is gonna call the newest E195-E2 the E195-R2D2, E295-ER2D2!

E295 is the ICAO code for the Embraer E195-E2.
Every ICAO code is made by four characters, either numbers or letters.
The ICAO code for the Embraer 195 (the original version) is E195 >>> the ICAO os the E2 version is E295.

Here are the 1) Model name 2) Model certification label 3) ICAO code

Original E-Jets:
1) Embraer 170 2) Embraer ERJ-170-100 3) E170
1) Embraer 175 2) Embraer ERJ-170-200 3) E175
1) Embraer 190 2) Embraer ERJ-190-100 3) E190
1) Embraer 195 2) Embraer ERJ-190-200 3) E195

E-Jets E2:
1) Embraer E175-E2 2) Embraer ERJ-170-300 3) E275
1) Embraer E190-E2 2) Embraer ERJ-190-300 3) E290
1) Embraer E195-E2 2) Embraer ERJ-190-400 3) E295

It can be confusing, I know. This is pretty complex and took me a while to learn it!
Hope this helps!

DCA350 wrote:

I wonder what small cities they are targeting.. Maybe they are planning some kind of big expansion, otherwise this makes no sense.. Historically Regional aircraft haven't done well in Asia..

Singapore sits right in the middle of Southeast Asia with easy connections across Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand and Vietnam, so there are plenty of cities with millions of people within a short flying radius. Having E195s would give them the option to ditch the A320s and keep the A321neos as an upgauge option that also has the range to cover most of Asia.

EBT wrote:

DCA350 wrote:

I wonder what small cities they are targeting.. Maybe they are planning some kind of big expansion, otherwise this makes no sense.. Historically Regional aircraft haven't done well in Asia..

Singapore sits right in the middle of Southeast Asia with easy connections across Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand and Vietnam, so there are plenty of cities with millions of people within a short flying radius. Having E195s would give them the option to ditch the A320s and keep the A321neos as an upgauge option that also has the range to cover most of Asia.

I think the A320Neo is not much better for short flights compared to the A320Ceo. Scoot might be looking for a more efficient aircraft to replace the A320Ceos.

I would expect Airbus would be pushing the A220 to Scoot hard. The type does not have much success in East Asia except for the 10 ordered by Korean. Korean did not follow up with additional order too. Airbus can use some new orders in this market.

raylee67 wrote:

I would expect Airbus would be pushing the A220 to Scoot hard. The type does not have much success in East Asia except for the 10 ordered by Korean. Korean did not follow up with additional order too. Airbus can use some new orders in this market.

While one would expect Airbus to bid the A220, I couldn't find any source they are serious. It is possible Embraer was agressive enough this is a Embraer only negotiation.

If Embraer wins at Scoot, which seems plausible, it changes the fate of the E295. This gives a solid order that would be emulated.

Good luck Embraer.

lightsaber wrote:

raylee67 wrote:

I would expect Airbus would be pushing the A220 to Scoot hard. The type does not have much success in East Asia except for the 10 ordered by Korean. Korean did not follow up with additional order too. Airbus can use some new orders in this market.

While one would expect Airbus to bid the A220, I couldn't find any source they are serious. It is possible Embraer was agressive enough this is a Embraer only negotiation.

If Embraer wins at Scoot, which seems plausible, it changes the fate of the E295. This gives a solid order that would be emulated.

Good luck Embraer.

Embraer has been very aggressive in pitching the E2 altrhough is not happy to take loss making orders. The losses it acquired against the A220 were purely on aircraft size and the sort of deals only Airbus can make.
I think the Royal Jordanian order and the Scoot chance sternson the fact that there's not enough slots on Airbus A220 production to allow them to pitch for these. Besides, the Airbus product would have been the A220-100, not the A220-300, given the airlines requirements and this is not a frame that has been winning many orders lately anyway.

The realistic flying range of the E-Jets in an all Y class configuration with an average pax/baggage weight being 100kg is 5:00 hours approximately. It can easily cover all of ASEAN (except South Korea/Japan), DRW, Southern China and many secondary airports in Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia + India.

Since its a bulk order for 50 airplanes approximately, it is size able enough for the airline to justify having another fleet type to cater for this expansion + it will allow the parent company Singapore Airlines via code share to sell many more niche market routes across its intercontinental network.

Main positives of this potential E90/E95-E2 order versus purchasing A223s, A320Neos or B737-7Max:

i. Much lower capital costs of purchase per aircraft unit x 50 jets

ii. Lower operational costs per hour versus the other aircraft

iii. The incremental range and capacity of the A220/A320/B737 is not required for these market segments as they will be served either daily or multiple daily in some cases

Personally speaking, the order should exclusively be for the E95-E2 as it offers 25% more incremental pax capacity for only 9% higher operating costs approximately plus can fly almost the same range as the smaller E90-E2.

It will be a big boost for Embraer in the ASEAN region if this order goes through as it will bring with it a lot of creditability as it would have SQ's stamp of approval.

lightsaber wrote:

raylee67 wrote:

I would expect Airbus would be pushing the A220 to Scoot hard. The type does not have much success in East Asia except for the 10 ordered by Korean. Korean did not follow up with additional order too. Airbus can use some new orders in this market.

While one would expect Airbus to bid the A220, I couldn't find any source they are serious. It is possible Embraer was agressive enough this is a Embraer only negotiation.

If Embraer wins at Scoot, which seems plausible, it changes the fate of the E295. This gives a solid order that would be emulated.

Good luck Embraer.

Airbus did an Asian tour with the A220-300 in 2019 and another one this year. However, I think Embraer made more serious efforts at airshows (like the Singapore Airshows) and they even came with the E2 to smaller air displays and exhibitions. If Embraer wins the Scoot order, it would be the culmination of a lot of hard work and it is not a flash in the pan.

DCA350 wrote:

I wonder what small cities they are targeting.. Maybe they are planning some kind of big expansion, otherwise this makes no sense.. Historically Regional aircraft haven't done well in Asia..

The first come in mind is Ipoh I believe they still serve?

lightsaber wrote:

raylee67 wrote:

I would expect Airbus would be pushing the A220 to Scoot hard. The type does not have much success in East Asia except for the 10 ordered by Korean. Korean did not follow up with additional order too. Airbus can use some new orders in this market.

While one would expect Airbus to bid the A220, I couldn't find any source they are serious. It is possible Embraer was agressive enough this is a Embraer only negotiation.

If Embraer wins at Scoot, which seems plausible, it changes the fate of the E295. This gives a solid order that would be emulated.

Good luck Embraer.

It makes no sense for Scoot to look at the A220 when one considers the actual production rate/order book and Airbus’ publicly stated objectives as to profitability for future sales of the aircraft. Hence, though unpopular to assert on this forum I am entirely unsurprised to read Airbus is not aggressively pitching the A220 here right now. It is hamstrung by the least efficient production system in civil aviation.

Thenoflyzone wrote:

It’s actually even more confusing than that.

The ICAO code for the E175 isn’t E175 anymore. Its now either E75S or E75L, depending if the plane has the basic winglets that go straight up (S for short) or enhanced wingtips that slope outwards, adding to the wingspan (L for long).

ohhh you're right, thanks for the additional info!

flee wrote:

EBT wrote:

DCA350 wrote:

I wonder what small cities they are targeting.. Maybe they are planning some kind of big expansion, otherwise this makes no sense.. Historically Regional aircraft haven't done well in Asia..

Singapore sits right in the middle of Southeast Asia with easy connections across Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand and Vietnam, so there are plenty of cities with millions of people within a short flying radius. Having E195s would give them the option to ditch the A320s and keep the A321neos as an upgauge option that also has the range to cover most of Asia.

I think the A320Neo is not much better for short flights compared to the A320Ceo. Scoot might be looking for a more efficient aircraft to replace the A320Ceos.

Introducing a new aircraft type is a lot of capital expense and effort. Its more likely that they just need a smaller aircraft than the 320neos efficiency on short routes.

Metchalus wrote:

Introducing a new aircraft type is a lot of capital expense and effort. Its more likely that they just need a smaller aircraft than the 320neos efficiency on short routes.

Seriously. Look at 319neos, then. Three types across a small fleet approaches madness. Unless Airbus is just too busy cranking out 321neos to give them fair pricing.

MIflyer12 wrote:

Metchalus wrote:

Introducing a new aircraft type is a lot of capital expense and effort. Its more likely that they just need a smaller aircraft than the 320neos efficiency on short routes.

Seriously. Look at 319neos, then. Three types across a small fleet approaches madness. Unless Airbus is just too busy cranking out 321neos to give them fair pricing.

Is the A319neo capable of performing all the missions Scoot might be considering with the E2?

I reckon this is ploy to get a better price from Airbus. Their fleet is too small and SIN slots are too precious.

Whats the smallest aircraft regularly scheduled into SIN? Anything smaller than A319?

SA280 wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

Metchalus wrote:

Introducing a new aircraft type is a lot of capital expense and effort. Its more likely that they just need a smaller aircraft than the 320neos efficiency on short routes.

Seriously. Look at 319neos, then. Three types across a small fleet approaches madness. Unless Airbus is just too busy cranking out 321neos to give them fair pricing.

Is the A319neo capable of performing all the missions Scoot might be considering with the E2?

Considering the A319neo is a rocket ship that is actually shorter than the E295 (albeit wider wingspan) I don’t see it having trouble on any mission unless max weight is an issue at some airports. Whether the commonality outweighs the E295’s better efficiency for these missions is another question I cannot answer.

jrfspa320 wrote:

I reckon this is ploy to get a better price from Airbus. Their fleet is too small and SIN slots are too precious.

Whats the smallest aircraft regularly scheduled into SIN? Anything smaller than A319?

It’s not like Airbus is swimming in near term A32X/A220 availability. I suspect delivery time is a major factor if this rumored order is true.

jrfspa320 wrote:

I reckon this is ploy to get a better price from Airbus. Their fleet is too small and SIN slots are too precious.

Whats the smallest aircraft regularly scheduled into SIN? Anything smaller than A319?

Yes, Firefly uses ATR72s into SIN from KUL and Kuching.

tullamarine wrote:

jrfspa320 wrote:

I reckon this is ploy to get a better price from Airbus. Their fleet is too small and SIN slots are too precious.

Whats the smallest aircraft regularly scheduled into SIN? Anything smaller than A319?

Yes, Firefly uses ATR72s into SIN from KUL and Kuching.

They fly into Seletar not SIN.

Polot wrote:

SA280 wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

Seriously. Look at 319neos, then. Three types across a small fleet approaches madness. Unless Airbus is just too busy cranking out 321neos to give them fair pricing.

Is the A319neo capable of performing all the missions Scoot might be considering with the E2?

Considering the A319neo is a rocket ship that is actually shorter than the E295 (albeit wider wingspan) I don’t see it having trouble on any mission unless max weight is an issue at some airports. Whether the commonality outweighs the E295’s better efficiency for these missions is another question I cannot answer.

jrfspa320 wrote:

I reckon this is ploy to get a better price from Airbus. Their fleet is too small and SIN slots are too precious.

Whats the smallest aircraft regularly scheduled into SIN? Anything smaller than A319?

It’s not like Airbus is swimming in near term A32X/A220 availability. I suspect delivery time is a major factor if this rumored order is true.

Many small airports in APAC are PCN-restricted. That might be the reason for the E2 being considered.

And if the order is for 50 aircraft, E2 segment-efficiency and versatility to fly to limited airports certainly offset the cost of adding another fleet family.

texl1649 wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

raylee67 wrote:

I would expect Airbus would be pushing the A220 to Scoot hard. The type does not have much success in East Asia except for the 10 ordered by Korean. Korean did not follow up with additional order too. Airbus can use some new orders in this market.

While one would expect Airbus to bid the A220, I couldn't find any source they are serious. It is possible Embraer was agressive enough this is a Embraer only negotiation.

If Embraer wins at Scoot, which seems plausible, it changes the fate of the E295. This gives a solid order that would be emulated.

Good luck Embraer.

It makes no sense for Scoot to look at the A220 when one considers the actual production rate/order book and Airbus’ publicly stated objectives as to profitability for future sales of the aircraft. Hence, though unpopular to assert on this forum I am entirely unsurprised to read Airbus is not aggressively pitching the A220 here right now. It is hamstrung by the least efficient production system in civil aviation.

I thought the whole point of selling the C-Series program to Airbus was to utilize Airbus's support network and production expertise to get things on track. So Airbus has still not figured that out for the A220?

Order from Boeing -> receive first frame by 2030
Order from Airbus -> receive first frame by 2032
Order from Embraer -> receive first frame by 2023/2024
Sounds like a good deal

FlyingCheetos wrote:

Order from Boeing -> receive first frame by 2030
Order from Airbus -> receive first frame by 2032
Order from Embraer -> receive first frame by 2023/2024
Sounds like a good deal

Boeing has over 100(China Bound) MAXes which are essentially white tails at this point although they are 8s and maybe some 9s. If they are looking at a E195 sized aircraft even a MAX7 would be too big.

jrfspa320 wrote:

I reckon this is ploy to get a better price from Airbus. Their fleet is too small and SIN slots are too precious.

Whats the smallest aircraft regularly scheduled into SIN? Anything smaller than A319?

It would be interesting if these aircraft will operate from Seletar Airport (XSP). At the moment, the only user of XSP is Firefly with their ATR72. The E2 might work there due to size and GTF (which limits noise). Flights like the Kuantan one would be better from XSP and the 190-E2 or 195-E2 is a better sized aircraft.

AngMoh wrote:

jrfspa320 wrote:

I reckon this is ploy to get a better price from Airbus. Their fleet is too small and SIN slots are too precious.

Whats the smallest aircraft regularly scheduled into SIN? Anything smaller than A319?

It would be interesting if these aircraft will operate from Seletar Airport (XSP). At the moment, the only user of XSP is Firefly with their ATR72. The E2 might work there due to size and GTF (which limits noise). Flights like the Kuantan one would be better from XSP and the 190-E2 or 195-E2 is a better sized aircraft.

I doubt that - turboprops are not allowed at SIN and maybe, TR is looking for the closest jet equivalent so that it can operate from SIN.

jrfspa320 wrote:

Whats the smallest aircraft regularly scheduled into SIN? Anything smaller than A319?

If QF get their way, they’ll be flying an e190 daily between SIN and DRW from June onwards.

MIflyer12 wrote:

Metchalus wrote:

Introducing a new aircraft type is a lot of capital expense and effort. Its more likely that they just need a smaller aircraft than the 320neos efficiency on short routes.

Seriously. Look at 319neos, then. Three types across a small fleet approaches madness. Unless Airbus is just too busy cranking out 321neos to give them fair pricing.

50 aircraft should be more than enough to warrant a new aircraft type. Not every airline is like UA.

SA280 wrote:

Is the A319neo capable of performing all the missions Scoot might be considering with the E2?

The A319neo might even be too capable for TR. It has huge range and is much heavier than the E295. And its resale value might not be that great.

jrfspa320 wrote:

I reckon this is ploy to get a better price from Airbus. Their fleet is too small and SIN slots are too precious.

Scoot still has a bunch of A32x neo on order, why should Airbus lower their prices? Their backlog is enormous and they can afford to adjust their prices to the huge demand.

The E2-195 really seems like the sweet spot for this family. Different than the original E1 family where the E-175 and E190 garnered the bulk of the orders.

Well, here's hoping this order comes to fruition for Embraer.

I'm looking forward to seeing the interior of these planes. I'm willing to bet they'll order the high-density version (146 seats and 28" pitch according to the Embraer website).
Speaking of passenger comfort, this is probably the best aircraft to choose thanks to its 2-2 configuration. But that's probably the last thing to consider when ordering an aircraft. Performance & economics are far more important for airlines (with good reason).

raylee67 wrote:

texl1649 wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

While one would expect Airbus to bid the A220, I couldn't find any source they are serious. It is possible Embraer was agressive enough this is a Embraer only negotiation.

If Embraer wins at Scoot, which seems plausible, it changes the fate of the E295. This gives a solid order that would be emulated.

Good luck Embraer.

It makes no sense for Scoot to look at the A220 when one considers the actual production rate/order book and Airbus’ publicly stated objectives as to profitability for future sales of the aircraft. Hence, though unpopular to assert on this forum I am entirely unsurprised to read Airbus is not aggressively pitching the A220 here right now. It is hamstrung by the least efficient production system in civil aviation.

I thought the whole point of selling the C-Series program to Airbus was to utilize Airbus's support network and production expertise to get things on track. So Airbus has still not figured that out for the A220?

Nope, such is the mess that Bombardier created.

JohanTally wrote:

FlyingCheetos wrote:

Order from Boeing -> receive first frame by 2030
Order from Airbus -> receive first frame by 2032
Order from Embraer -> receive first frame by 2023/2024
Sounds like a good deal

Boeing has over 100(China Bound) MAXes which are essentially white tails at this point although they are 8s and maybe some 9s. If they are looking at a E195 sized aircraft even a MAX7 would be too big.

Not only do I agree, additionally the White Tails (previously for PRC based operators) are now being proposed for sale to Air India:

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/air-india-close-to-signing-order-for-150-boeing-737-max-jets/articleshow/96118930.cms?from=mdr
The order tilted in favour of Boeing as the plane maker was able to guarantee immediate delivery of 50 planes that were earlier intended for China Southern, which was supposed to take delivery of 103 Max jets. “Fifty of those aircraft will be delivered to Air India immediately, starting by March next year,” said one of the persons. “Air India is hungry for aircraft as they have an aggressive expansion plan.” The order is likely to be signed in the next few weeks, the person said.

Returning to the topic, I do wish Embraer and Scoot well, and do hope that both find great partners in each other. As for aircraft cabins and/or on-board amenities/products would Scoot need on these aircraft? The E2s come with a rather dynamic seating capability in their marketed 'business' class cabin that has staggered, all-aisle access (h/t to https://www.priestmangoode.com for help):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTNnNmRxNpo

Interesting development as Scoot has signed a Letter of Intent (LOI) to add nine new Embraer E190-E2 aircraft. The LOI was signed with aircraft lessor Azorra.

Source: https://www.theedgesingapore.com/amp/ne ... -its-fleet

Looks like a new phase for the Singapore-based LCC’s growth, and looking at the range of the E190, allows Scoot to serve thin LCC markets in China, India and Jakarta efficiently! Any idea for potential destinations?

As noted in Mainly Miles (https://mainlymiles.com/2023/02/17/scoo ... the-cards/), USM is definitely a potential option with its restriction on aircraft and the ME3 not being able to compete with direct flights (having to rely on offline codeshares).

Well that is very interesting news. Last month there were rumors for an order for up to 50 E2-195s by Scoot. The E2-190 is somewhat unexpected. It has 250nm more range than the E2-195, perhaps that is more important for Scoot vs the larger capacity of the latter.

While this is not a direct order, I think this is a very important development for Embraer. I suspect Scoot is testing the waters with a small number of leased aircraft now, it could lead to a larger direct order if Scoot likes the E2's performance.

Perhaps there is a direct order coming along with the leases? 9 seems to be a relatively small fleet for the likes of SQ.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1479547&hilit=scoot+embrear
Was discussed here previously.

frigatebird wrote:

I suspect Scoot is testing the waters with a small number of leased aircraft now, it could lead to a larger direct order if Scoot likes the E2's performance.

It’s a terribly expensive way to test the performance of an aircraft and not something that’s really down anymore, for in-service aircraft anyway. There’s more uncertainty with a clean-sheet design for launch customers. But Embraer really should homage enough data for Scoot to evaluate.

All of that said, this is a fascinating development and a new direction for ULCCs, where the 180 seat 737/A320 competitors took every sizeable order of note?

BrianDromey wrote:

frigatebird wrote:

I suspect Scoot is testing the waters with a small number of leased aircraft now, it could lead to a larger direct order if Scoot likes the E2's performance.

It’s a terribly expensive way to test the performance of an aircraft and not something that’s really down anymore, for in-service aircraft anyway. There’s more uncertainty with a clean-sheet design for launch customers. But Embraer really should homage enough data for Scoot to evaluate.

All of that said, this is a fascinating development and a new direction for ULCCs, where the 180 seat 737/A320 competitors took every sizeable order of note?

I am not aware of any other E2 in the Singapore region, so the could test out the support network more than the aircraft itself. Embraer has a facility in Seletar Airport for private jets, but servicing commercial jets is a whole different business.

Just one question: Azorra has the E195-E2 on order, not the E190-E2. So which one are they getting? The Scoot press release header mentions E190-E2 but the actual press release is not available online from the Scoot website.

I think SIA Group is adding the E2 as adding the A220 would make them to dependent on Airbus given the current weakness of Boeing in the smaller segment. It is policy to always have multiple vendors who can compete with each other. As a passenger I would love to see more Embers in Singapore.