Don't also forget about the cargo element of this.

IND is crippled today, very few flights coming in or out.

FedEx put out a press release this morning warning of delays for Holiday deliveries.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/23/storm-e ... ights.html

Cubsrule wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

TWA772LR wrote:

With a large portion of the US expecting below-freezing temperatures in the coming days, what will be the impacts on air travel especially considering this is the busiest time of year?

Any word on airline ops in the US in the next couple days?

One interesting thing to keep in mind in relation to the cold, is there could be delays from the southern airports, in regards to deicing.

It looks like a lot of the super cold temps will be in places with reasonable deicing capabilities (BNA, CLT, ATL, etc.) but I also think there will be some southern cities—I don’t know how many—where getting staff to the airport may be a problem for a while.

Looks like a lot of cancellations through BNA today.

https://flightaware.com/live/cancelled/today/

From the SeaTac Web Site

Status Updates
December 23, 5 a.m.

The runways are currently closed indefinitely due to freezing rain and temps. Crews are working to de-ice the surfaces as quickly and safely as possible. Safety is the top priority before the runways can reopen. Be sure to check with your airlines for further updates on your specific flight.

December 22, 5 p.m.

We are watching the forecast closely. We're prepared for the upcoming winter weather. SEA taxiways and runways have been treated with deicer in anticipation of cold weather and possible freezing rain. Check with your airline for specific flight information.

Why were they so optimistic at 5pm? It was widely forecast for almost the entire week that an ice storm would be hitting Seattle for upwards of a day (Portland two days). Road travel is treacherous to the point that the DOT for the state is recommending emergency travel only. Workers probably cannot get to work in required numbers. In our neighboring county transit has entirely shut down. At minimum it seems to me they should have been saying all day yesterday that closures were likely.

Minimal disruptions at NY airports despite the dreadful forecast.

IAD pretty much down to a single runway. Everything operating on the 30.

ORD was landing planes all night - I am under the Lake Michigan approach.
UA terminal was very busy but not a zoo at check in.

Brutual here in NE Ohio. Not alot of snow but near blizzard winds. Even the dog went out 50 feet and turned back home. Thank god my ramping days were 20 years ago.
Looks like CLE is closed.

frmrCapCadet wrote:

From the SeaTac Web Site

Status Updates
December 23, 5 a.m.

The runways are currently closed indefinitely due to freezing rain and temps. Crews are working to de-ice the surfaces as quickly and safely as possible. Safety is the top priority before the runways can reopen. Be sure to check with your airlines for further updates on your specific flight.

December 22, 5 p.m.

We are watching the forecast closely. We're prepared for the upcoming winter weather. SEA taxiways and runways have been treated with deicer in anticipation of cold weather and possible freezing rain. Check with your airline for specific flight information.

Why were they so optimistic at 5pm? It was widely forecast for almost the entire week that an ice storm would be hitting Seattle for upwards of a day (Portland two days). Road travel is treacherous to the point that the DOT for the state is recommending emergency travel only. Workers probably cannot get to work in required numbers. In our neighboring county transit has entirely shut down. At minimum it seems to me they should have been saying all day yesterday that closures were likely.

Flightaware didn't report a lot of cancellations by AS or DL mainline at SEA on 12/22: 23 and 14, respectively. Getting to the airport is on the passenger.

MohawkWeekend wrote:

Brutual here in NE Ohio. Not alot of snow but near blizzard winds. Even the dog went out 50 feet and turned back home. Thank god my ramping days were 20 years ago.
Looks like CLE is closed.

CLE is open, UA 2636 to MCO just took off. Runways into the wind are the 24s, visibility looks terrible. Departures are running, no arrivals from what I am seeing. Family in Stow cancelled and decided to spend Xmas at home rather than try to get out West. Shame, supposed to be 76 and Sunny here in San Diego at the beach on Christmas.

KCLE 231551Z 23026G42KT 1/4SM +SN BLSN VV012 M19/M24 A2958 RMK AO2 PK WND 24042/1542 TWR VIS 1 SLP046 P0000 T11941239

Burrrr....get chilly just thinking about those temps!

Best wishes to all braving the cold.

Made it out of MCI yesterday to JFK. 1 hour delay due to needing fuel and the main fuel lines at the airport being frozen. Otherwise very uneventful.

Not surprising, but lots of go arounds today and yesterday at DCA. I am visiting my parents in Arlington who are not normally under the flight paths, except for go arounds. Have been hearing a somewhat steady roar of engines the past 36 hours, which is quite unusual. Go arounds confirmed via flight paths on Flight Aware. So glad I flew in on Wednesday!

evank516 wrote:

Made it out of MCI yesterday to JFK. 1 hour delay due to needing fuel and the main fuel lines at the airport being frozen. Otherwise very uneventful.

WOW I had never heard of that happening in my 8 years working at KMCI

Delta is diverting on departure all Hawaii bound flights to SFO first - does anybody know why?

DL 565 SEA-KOA
DL 344 SEA-LIH
DL 481 SEA-OGG

all diverted via SFO

Avoided the rolling blackouts here in Tennessee due to a local mill telling the employees Merry Christmas, go home and start the holiday early.

As expected, and as I wrote about yesterday, Social Media, especially Twitter, is flooded with people complaining about their flights being canceled. It is always a no-win for the airlines in these situations…

Midwestindy wrote:

Cubsrule wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

One interesting thing to keep in mind in relation to the cold, is there could be delays from the southern airports, in regards to deicing.

It looks like a lot of the super cold temps will be in places with reasonable deicing capabilities (BNA, CLT, ATL, etc.) but I also think there will be some southern cities—I don’t know how many—where getting staff to the airport may be a problem for a while.

Looks like a lot of cancellations through BNA today.

https://flightaware.com/live/cancelled/today/

(Not surprisingly given that it hasn't happened in Nashville this millennium) it seems that there's a lot of GSE at BNA that doesn't like sub-zero temperatures very much. The airfield is reasonably clear and they've kept 13/31 open. One runway ops are doable but not ideal, though with the reduced flight count they work better.

I doubt it. There are so many changes that the system has bit not been updated. This happens all the time.

A Spirit A321 to CUN had to return to PHL today after two suspected lightening strikes right after takeoff. You don't hear about that happening too often during winter storms.

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/spir ... index.html

There is still plenty of lake effect snow around the Great Lakes as of this writing and many have been injured and at least one killed in a 50 car pile-up on the Ohio Turnpike. Condolences and RIP to all involved. I guess it's more evidence that flying really is safer than driving

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/winter ... 449f08d3fe.

miradu wrote:

Delta is diverting on departure all Hawaii bound flights to SFO first - does anybody know why?

DL 565 SEA-KOA
DL 344 SEA-LIH
DL 481 SEA-OGG

all diverted via SFO

The only reason I could think of is they were not able to get sufficient fuel for the HA trip. So a tech stop in SFO.

travaz wrote:

miradu wrote:

Delta is diverting on departure all Hawaii bound flights to SFO first - does anybody know why?

DL 565 SEA-KOA
DL 344 SEA-LIH
DL 481 SEA-OGG

all diverted via SFO

The only reason I could think of is they were not able to get sufficient fuel for the HA trip. So a tech stop in SFO.

Those are all 321 NEO flights, so maybe there are strong headwinds westbound across the pacific preventing SEA-Hawaii non-stop tonight? DL693, a 330 NEO, is going SEA-HNL non-stop.

QF7 wrote:

Every year there is some version of this same story. Sometimes worse, sometimes not so bad, but it is a simple fact, known for thousands of years, that the weather can be bad in December.

Probably 40 years ago I had a terrible trip DCA-CLT-CHA on Christmas Eve or the night before

Ah, I remember the Batto-Wash Christmas storm of 1970. My BAL(as it was then)-PIT- DAY was hosed and most pax just left, Those of us who stuck it out were rewarded when Allegheny repurposed the plane to a BAL-CVG-STL special run, to get the plane to where it was needed in the morning. My brother drove down to CVG to pick me up - no weather in Ohio then- and home for Christmas! Boy, I'm old....

SuperGee wrote:

A Spirit A321 to CUN had to return to PHL today after two suspected lightening strikes right after takeoff. You don't hear about that happening too often during winter storms.

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/spir ... index.html

There is still plenty of lake effect snow around the Great Lakes as of this writing and many have been injured and at least one killed in a 50 car pile-up on the Ohio Turnpike. Condolences and RIP to all involved. I guess it's more evidence that flying really is safer than driving

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/winter ... 449f08d3fe.

Thundersnow is one of the most amazing things to see. I was a kid, so like late 1980s, and was waiting for Santa to come. We were listening to the updates on the radio where he was, and heard he was finally in my town in NY. We we're getting light snow on that Christmas Eve. I was sick with Chicken Pox so I knew I wouldn't be able to see him come in, or see family/friends, I thought I ruined Christmas for my family. The sky started to light up with lightning, while it was still snowing. Santa suddenly appeared through the lightning flashes and blowing snow, left a big sack of presents on the front stoop, wished me a Merry Christmas and to feel better...I told him to please wait until the lightning passed before flying away so he and the reindeer didn't get hit by lightning LOL!. But ever since that night, I have been fascinated with Thundersnow and can't help to reminisce when I hear it happening in the news.

Some cancellation and delay stats on Friday from FlightAware

Top-10 airlines by cancellations

https://i.ibb.co/3hQNJyZ/airlines.png

Top-10 airports by cancellation

https://i.ibb.co/vDhNGYK/airport.png

Interesting AA has the least amount of CX. As does DL.

travaz wrote:

Interesting AA has the least amount of CX. As does DL.

Today is definitely a different story, DL is all the way up at 17% with 340+ cancelled today while the rest of the US4 are below 10%.

Simple - they cancelled the regionals to focus on keeping mainline going

alasizon wrote:

travaz wrote:

Interesting AA has the least amount of CX. As does DL.

Today is definitely a different story, DL is all the way up at 17% with 340+ cancelled today while the rest of the US4 are below 10%.

I wonder if out of position planes and crews are catching up with DL?

travaz wrote:

Interesting AA has the least amount of CX. As does DL.

Outside of ORD, none of AA's hubs were really impacted.

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:

Simple - they cancelled the regionals to focus on keeping mainline going

To be fair the regionals have large bases in the cities where the storm hit the worst. You couldn't get around canceling the regionals.

YX for example couldn't get planes/crew out of IND, and also has bases in ORD/CMH/SDF

Correct and also disproportionately have destinations impacted on both ends of the trip. Also typically a lot higher absenteeism with the low paid outsourced contractors ground handling during these types of weather events

Midwestindy wrote:

travaz wrote:

Interesting AA has the least amount of CX. As does DL.

Outside of ORD, none of AA's hubs were really impacted.

I think this is one of the few storms I can remember where it really didn't matter where your hubs were, it was all of the outstations that just got hammered and definitely left crew out of place for days.

Thursday left crews stranded in the Midwest, Rockies and Texas.
Friday left crews stranded just about everywhere east of the Mississippi.
Plus all the crews west of the Rockies that had their flights cancelled due to destination conditions.

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:

Correct and also disproportionately have destinations impacted on both ends of the trip. Also typically a lot higher absenteeism with the low paid outsourced contractors ground handling during these types of weather events

THIS…..
The airline has zero loyalty to the contracted employees, so why should they have any for the airline?
No benies, no flight benefits, not even acknowledgement.

In the past, you proudly wore that TWA, or Continental, or Delta logo, and you did whatever it took to keep things moving. It was a point of personal pride to get it done.
Now it says Menzies, UGS, or DGS/Whackenhut, and you don’t actually work for the airline anymore

FlyingElvii wrote:

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:

Correct and also disproportionately have destinations impacted on both ends of the trip. Also typically a lot higher absenteeism with the low paid outsourced contractors ground handling during these types of weather events

THIS…..
The airline has zero loyalty to the contracted employees, so why should they have any for the airline?
No benies, no flight benefits, not even acknowledgement.

In the past, you proudly wore that TWA, or Continental, or Delta logo, and you did whatever it took to keep things moving. It was a point of personal pride to get it done.
Now it says Menzies, UGS, or DGS/Whackenhut, and you don’t actually work for the airline anymore

This is 100% correct. Low pay no bennies and you are probably looking for a new job anyway.

Looking at Flightradar24 late last night, it was unreal to see how many flights were airborne at 3 AM ET that had been delayed for 4+ hours. Flights that should have been arriving at 10:00 or 11:00 PM were getting to their destinations at 3:00 or 4:00 AM, but at least they were getting there. Kudos to the crews for working late last night to keep the birds in the air and passengers on their way home before Christmas.

Reminds me of the movie Planes, Traines & Automobiles with John Candy…

Disruptions to east coast stations were minimal. The severity of the storm was overstated. Winds were intermittently strong, but sustained winds weren't enough to cause mass diversions. Hopefully, airlines will consider a more... conservative approach to flight cancellations in the future.

BoeingG wrote:

Disruptions to east coast stations were minimal. The severity of the storm was overstated. Winds were intermittently strong, but sustained winds weren't enough to cause mass diversions. Hopefully, airlines will consider a more... conservative approach to flight cancellations in the future.

Its a tough call.....
Its better to make proactive decisions and allow passengers to make changes in advance than to try to chance it and then end up with an operational meltdown that takes a long time to recover back to normal ops.

This was a very large storm, with a lot of wind, a lot of cold temps in areas that aren't used to extreme cold, and snow in varying degrees of severity.
We saw how this storm moved west to east and caused havoc. Storm track changes a 50-100 miles one or another could have different outcomes.

There are multiple pieces that all need to be taken into account.

- Forecasted weather minimums in terms of snowfall, winds/crosswinds, visibility
- Deicing capacity and hold over times (particularly at stations that don't do a lot of regular deicing)
- Wind and snow impact to ramp safety / snow removal
- Wind impacting ability to use deicing lift/bucket trucks, and other ground equipment (e.g., catering trucks, refueling lifts)
- Temperature and snow impact for ability to get airport workers to the airport
- Cancelations of associated flights, particularly the regionals, as NYC has a disproporiate amount of commuting flight crews (pilots & FAs) who don't live in base; what does crew availability and reserves look like

All these decisions need to be made to try to fly a realistic schedule based on a bunch of "known unknowns".

Passengers need to take that into consideration, and its always better to make a back-up plan. Where feasible, reschedule to travel before or after the forecasted weather event.

You learn from past experiences, but living in the Midwest most of my live, I've had a handful of holiday gathers cancelled or postponed due to severe weather (or in 2020 a pandemic).
You just go with the flow and make the best of what you can.

Still lots of disruption in Denver (personal anecdotal evidence)

Was supposed to fly UA: RIW-DEN-ORD-IND today.

RIW-DEN was cancelled (as its been the last three days) so I drove to Denver overnight.
DEN-ORD was delayed too long to make any ORD-IND flight with available seats.
I was rebooked onto tonight's nonstop DEN-IND but now its delayed...

FlyingElvii wrote:

ucdtim17 wrote:

Currently -35 at BZN. Airport still operating somehow https://flightaware.com/live/airport/KBZN

Riverton (RIW) Wyoming set a new low temperature record: https://county10.com/record-low-reporte ... -thursday/

FlyingElvii wrote:

Brick wrote:

Big problem at the major airport in my town during extreme weather events is, the low wage below the wing staff decides to quit. Why sling bags in -15°F weather when you can flip burgers at a restaurant in the warm terminal for the same wage?

The result is, flights get canceled because the airline's vendor cannot provide enough staff to operate flights. The passengers of course are told it is a "weather", thus they are out of luck. The reality is, a lot of low wage employees will quit rather than work outside in extreme cold. Same thing happens in the summer during heatwaves.

Also, it is the end of the year. If you have "Use it or lose it" sick days, this weekend is a perfect time to use them.

Working outside in -20 F or lower is brutal like was seen across a lot of the Mountain West earlier this week. Even with pretty physical work like mine and being well-dressed for it, I still had to go outside once every 40 min once the wind picked up to keep from getting frostbite.

Add in the fact that airports are clear open spaces for wind to have the maximum wind-chill impacts, and ground handling alone could probably explain a lot of the delays so far and the cascading impact even now a few days later.

Hopefully lower loads tomorrow allow the systems to catch up, but I think we're now at a place where when flights have been canceled for several days in a row, and even tomorrow will be full from the backlog.

Yep.....everything takes twice as long in the extreme cold.

alasizon wrote:

travaz wrote:

Interesting AA has the least amount of CX. As does DL.

Today is definitely a different story, DL is all the way up at 17% with 340+ cancelled today while the rest of the US4 are below 10%.

At 2000 hours Eastern today WN is at 31% cancellations and DL mainline at 22% per FlightAware.

Buffalo at an over 90% cancel rate today!?
https://flightaware.com/live/airport/KB ... led_origin

SumChristianus wrote:

Buffalo at an over 90% cancel rate today!?
https://flightaware.com/live/airport/KB ... led_origin

Only 90%?

EWR is in a complete meltdown right now. The fire suppression lines in the tower broke on the 23rd floor, so the controllers had to move to their alternate site which is the United ramp tower. They dropped the arrival rate to 15 airplanes per hour. There are 126 flights currently waiting with EDCTs trying to make it to Newark right now, and the list is growing. The average delay getting off the ground right now is 223 minutes and increasing. It's unlikely that it'll be fixed tonight.

Lots of United DEN evening departures are just being delayed later and later into the overnight morning making the UA flight schedule for tonight by one measure look a lot like the America West late night LAS hub of yesteryear.

This again tonight:

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:

Looking at Flightradar24 late last night, it was unreal to see how many flights were airborne at 3 AM ET that had been delayed for 4+ hours. Flights that should have been arriving at 10:00 or 11:00 PM were getting to their destinations at 3:00 or 4:00 AM, but at least they were getting there. Kudos to the crews for working late last night to keep the birds in the air and passengers on their way home before Christmas.

Any other A.net members stuck in DEN right now as we speak by chance and want to meet up? I'm at B27 and will be here for a while.

View from the Wing (yea, I know) reports WN is in meltdown mode in DEN due to lack of ramp staff. Oh & their phone system went down.

https://viewfromthewing.com/southwest-t ... showed-up/

FYI, I have expanded the title of the thread. The impacts are being felt throughout the holiday season and across the country, so I amended the title to better reflect that.

✈️ atcsundevil

SumChristianus wrote:

Buffalo at an over 90% cancel rate today!?
https://flightaware.com/live/airport/KB ... led_origin

The national guard had to be dispatched to save people stuck in Buffalo streets so I am surprised it is only 90%.

Per flightaware, Southwest is at 1,248 xcls for the day, and counting…

United 1119AM departure to Kalispel is delayed until 600AM Christmas Day. Ouch…

First time since college I have a 4 day Christmas weekend off, and I couldn’t afford to go anywhere. Lucky me!

Look top-10 airline and airport cancels and Saturday per FlightAware


https://i.ibb.co/3WRpJrv/sat-airline.png


https://i.ibb.co/BVwjp7h/sat-airport.png