aerohottie wrote:

qf789 wrote:

evanb wrote:

QF have no remaining options or purchase rights for B787s, and have not for years.

An option reserves a specific place in the production chain and a price. Each option has a fixed date before a decision must be made which is defined by the contract. Options are limited to a relatively shorter timeframe from the order. Generally as a good rule of thumb, options follow a similar pattern and timeframe to the original order. For example, if the original order was 10 plus 5 options and then original 10 are delivered one per quarter of 2.5 years, then the 5 options are likely following the original order on a similar continuing timeline, i.e. each quarter for and additional 1.25 years. Purchase right only fix the price, or the model for which the price is determined. Purchase rights often have a slightly longer timeframe, but even then if the delivery book is longer when the airline wants to use them they may be moot since the the purchase rights link to delivery date rather than order date.

However, when Qantas restructured the order in 2012, the options and rights were maintained but brought forward in terms of date, available from 2016 (delivery slots). The options would have expired by about 2020 or thereabouts (simply looking at the delivery timeframes at that time). In 2015, the order of the B787-9s was likely exploiting purchase rights, as was the 9th. Given the time since that, it's almost certain that they've now expired.

Making claims such as "QF have no remaining options or purchase rights for B787s, and have not for years." without providing supporting evidence is grounds for deletion of your post. If you are going to make such comments at least back them up.

Qantas still does have purchase rights that they can use.

On 20 August 2015 when Qantas announced the order for the first 8 787-9's, 15 options and 30 purchase rights were included in their own press release

Qantas will retain 15 further options and 30 purchase rights for additional B787s, with significant flexibility over the timing of delivery should they be exercised.

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... Dreamliner.

The options were through to 2020 while the purchase rights were through to 2025. It is also known one of those 15 options lapsed of which was reported in February 2018, again reiterating that they purchase rights went out to 2025

According to Reuters, chief executive Alan Joyce told a media gathering in Singapore this week that Qantas was still considering whether it needed more B787s to add to the eight already on order and which are due to arrive by the end of this year. Aside from the fifteen options for B787s deliverable by 2020, Qantas also has purchase rights for thirty more Dreamliners due to deliver through 2025.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... rder-shift

Of course this was all before Covid and when QF wanted to delay the 3 787's they are currently waiting for it is possible that these purchase rights could have either lapsed or a new agreement could have been made

Very interesting that QF possibly have 30 purchase rights for 787's to 2025, while initiating an evaluation to replace their 28 A330's.
Boeing's to lose perhaps???

Sylus wrote:

Bonza flights now finally on sale - and yes only via the app! I've just booked MCY-TSV one way for $65 for April... let's see how they go

melpax wrote:

Sylus wrote:

Bonza flights now finally on sale - and yes only via the app! I've just booked MCY-TSV one way for $65 for April... let's see how they go

$320 return for AVV-MCY with checked bags in March, not bad value in the current climate. Frequencies not the best for a short trip, but it's fine if you're doing a longer trip of a week or so.

tullamarine wrote:

melpax wrote:

Sylus wrote:

Bonza flights now finally on sale - and yes only via the app! I've just booked MCY-TSV one way for $65 for April... let's see how they go

$320 return for AVV-MCY with checked bags in March, not bad value in the current climate. Frequencies not the best for a short trip, but it's fine if you're doing a longer trip of a week or so.

It will be interesting to see how Jetstar responds. Of all the existing airlines, it is Jetstar's core market most targeted by Bonza.

SCFlyer wrote:

tullamarine wrote:

melpax wrote:

$320 return for AVV-MCY with checked bags in March, not bad value in the current climate. Frequencies not the best for a short trip, but it's fine if you're doing a longer trip of a week or so.

It will be interesting to see how Jetstar responds. Of all the existing airlines, it is Jetstar's core market most targeted by Bonza.

Although JQ isn't competing on most routes by Bonza.

Most JQ could do is sell budget fares on 'through' itineraries (2 flights) on similar routings (although it's time consuming with the required baggage collection and then re-checking in bags at the connecting airport for some passengers).

a7ala wrote:

SCFlyer wrote:

mrkerr7474 wrote:

Whether SQ were able to make it work without the subsidies, no one will know as yes they most likely won't return, well not for a few more years at least. I think it was a good testament to them that they went from a regional 777 to the long haul configured A350 just prior to covid and they increased the flights quickly to 5 weekly and was talk of daily not long before covid came into it.

Ultimately SQ would have wanted to fly the route directly between SIN-WLG but probably couldn't make carrying no freight work for them. That part is my opinion but makes some sense

I'm speculating why WLG got the 3-class A350 is due to having to pass through MEL which is a very high yielding market without the WLG tag. At the time MEL would've been scheduled the premium-configured aircraft on the majority (if not all) of services prior to the COVID shutdowns.

Had SQ operated it through another Australian city that wasn't SYD or MEL, could they have used the regional A350s, that is another question to ask.

Look at it this way, to get the A350 into WLG a significant amount of money was spent for Airbus to bring their test aircraft down to WLG and have it certified for the runway. We dont know who paid for it, but its a lot of effort on the part of Airbus, SQ and WLG for the route and even further strengthens the case for the importance of WLG (other airports you wouldnt need to go through this effort).

If it wasnt going well for them they would have just introduced the A350 to SIN-MEL and then cut WLG off.

TG788 wrote:

I can’t recall seeing this mentioned before, apologies if it has come up. Tim Clark in this article suggests he is interested in DRW with the A350.

LTEN11 wrote:

TG788 wrote:

I can’t recall seeing this mentioned before, apologies if it has come up. Tim Clark in this article suggests he is interested in DRW with the A350.

DRW, he might be interested in it, but the bean counters won't be. Pretty much everything in DRW is focused towards Asia and whilst the mining industry has grown exponentially in recent times, that would not be enough to draw a carrier such as EK with an aircraft such as the A350. You just need to look at how SQ serve DRW, with a 737 3 x weekly in the low season and 5 x weekly in the high, too see that there is very little premium demand and not a lot of low yielding either.

a7ala wrote:

QF and EK have applied for extension of their JV. I can only imagine hes talking it up for the regulators. Surely a return to ADL and starting CBR would be smarter moves (not saying CBR is a smart move).

ClassicLover wrote:

a7ala wrote:

QF and EK have applied for extension of their JV. I can only imagine hes talking it up for the regulators. Surely a return to ADL and starting CBR would be smarter moves (not saying CBR is a smart move).

I'm sure QR are going to be delighted by that, Al Baker doesn't seem to like this one bit!

EK413 wrote:

Appears -VQW will be the 1st A320 to sport the revised JQ colour scheme.

Hopefully the revised scheme improves their OTP.

Flight JQ7992 from Melbourne to Townsville
https://fr24.com/JST7992/2efc7408


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EK413 wrote:

Appears -VQW will be the 1st A320 to sport the revised JQ colour scheme.

Hopefully the revised scheme improves their OTP.

Flight JQ7992 from Melbourne to Townsville
https://fr24.com/JST7992/2efc7408


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Sylus wrote:

Bonza flights now finally on sale - and yes only via the app! I've just booked MCY-TSV one way for $65 for April... let's see how they go

QF744ER wrote:

EK413 wrote:

Appears -VQW will be the 1st A320 to sport the revised JQ colour scheme.

Hopefully the revised scheme improves their OTP.

Flight JQ7992 from Melbourne to Townsville
https://fr24.com/JST7992/2efc7408


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I need to double check but VQW might be transferring across to NWK.

EK413 wrote:

QF744ER wrote:

EK413 wrote:

Appears -VQW will be the 1st A320 to sport the revised JQ colour scheme.

Hopefully the revised scheme improves their OTP.

Flight JQ7992 from Melbourne to Townsville
https://fr24.com/JST7992/2efc7408


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I need to double check but VQW might be transferring across to NWK.

-VQW is an 18yr old frame & based on age I’d say you are most likely on the mark.


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lsmi4126 wrote:

QF A380 VH-OQI is on its way from VCV to LAX. This is the last QF A380 to leave VCV and rejoin the fleet (excluding the ill-fated OQE and OQF).

QF6023 from Victorville to Los Angeles https://fr24.com/QFA6023/2efe2e3a

lsmi4126 wrote:

QF A380 VH-OQI is on its way from VCV to LAX. This is the last QF A380 to leave VCV and rejoin the fleet (excluding the ill-fated OQE and OQF).

QF6023 from Victorville to Los Angeles https://fr24.com/QFA6023/2efe2e3a

mrkerr7474 wrote:

Does anyone think QF will regret getting rid of both or at least 1 of these frames?

What was the reasoning again they got rid of OQE and OQF instead of the older frames?

mrkerr7474 wrote:

lsmi4126 wrote:

QF A380 VH-OQI is on its way from VCV to LAX. This is the last QF A380 to leave VCV and rejoin the fleet (excluding the ill-fated OQE and OQF).

QF6023 from Victorville to Los Angeles https://fr24.com/QFA6023/2efe2e3a

Does anyone think QF will regret getting rid of both or at least 1 of these frames?

What was the reasoning again they got rid of OQE and OQF instead of the older frames?

mrkerr7474 wrote:

lsmi4126 wrote:

Does anyone think QF will regret getting rid of both or at least 1 of these frames?

YSSYplanespoter wrote:

mrkerr7474 wrote:

lsmi4126 wrote:

Does anyone think QF will regret getting rid of both or at least 1 of these frames?

I also believe so too. It appears to me that this is just a knee-jerk reaction in believe that COVID was going to last forever (clearly that's not the case, and was never going to be the case)

Deano969 wrote:

YSSYplanespoter wrote:

mrkerr7474 wrote:

I also believe so too. It appears to me that this is just a knee-jerk reaction in believe that COVID was going to last forever (clearly that's not the case, and was never going to be the case)

Couldn't they score a bargain by picking up a few on the second hand market ?

JJWess wrote:

lsmi4126 wrote:

QF A380 VH-OQI is on its way from VCV to LAX. This is the last QF A380 to leave VCV and rejoin the fleet (excluding the ill-fated OQE and OQF).

QF6023 from Victorville to Los Angeles https://fr24.com/QFA6023/2efe2e3a

So those last two A380’s have 0 chance of ever coming back correct?

lsmi4126 wrote:

QF A380 VH-OQI is on its way from VCV to LAX. This is the last QF A380 to leave VCV and rejoin the fleet (excluding the ill-fated OQE and OQF).

QF6023 from Victorville to Los Angeles https://fr24.com/QFA6023/2efe2e3a

a320fan wrote:

So Bonzas flights are on sale, and it wasn’t a misreading or miscommunication of their pre launch press releases, flights are only for sale through the app. Seems like such a shortsighted and stupid business decision. I’m 100% of the smart phone generation but I’m not going to be booking flights or holidays on an app, that’s something I’m going to be jumping on a computer for. Then there’s the older generation who on their regional to MCY routes wouldn’t be an insignificant portion, who are likely to either be not confident in using their smartphones capabilities or maybe even don’t own one at all. Seems silly to make it harder to buy your product.

tullamarine wrote:

Deano969 wrote:

YSSYplanespoter wrote:

I also believe so too. It appears to me that this is just a knee-jerk reaction in believe that COVID was going to last forever (clearly that's not the case, and was never going to be the case)

Couldn't they score a bargain by picking up a few on the second hand market ?

Given the different layout each airline has, it is often very expensive to bring such an aircraft into your fleet. These differences typically revolve around BSE (Buyer Supplied Equipment) and includes things such as galleys, toilets, IFE systems etc. Bringing an odd layout means seat configurations are different even if you upgrade so the same seat design is used. It can also mean the trolleys in the galley are different so the catering arrangements can be further complicated.

This is why, despite booming demand, no one took the opportunity to acquire the lightly used and, apparently, well maintained MH A380s.

qf2220 wrote:

lsmi4126 wrote:

QF A380 VH-OQI is on its way from VCV to LAX. This is the last QF A380 to leave VCV and rejoin the fleet (excluding the ill-fated OQE and OQF).

QF6023 from Victorville to Los Angeles https://fr24.com/QFA6023/2efe2e3a

What will be done on it in LAX and how long until its ready for revenue service?

tullamarine wrote:

I believe basic airworthy checks are done in LAX including a landing gear swing. Once these are completed, it will relocate to Abu Dhabi for a more major maintenance check as well as refitting with the updated cabin layout (new J & W, updated F & Y) as well as a repaint if required.

It will probably be 3-4 months at least before it returns to service.

tullamarine wrote:

QF are keen to reduce the number of types in its fleet so it makes sense that the A330 fleet be replaced by the 789 above and the A321XLR below.

In 10 years you'd think the QF fleet would be just 4 types A220, A321, B789 and A35K. It is possible that they will broaden within these types such as A225s (when it happens), A322 (if it happens), B78X and A359 (won't be both A359 and 78X) but there is realistically no likelihood of other types such as 737MAX, A330NEO or 779.

mrkerr7474 wrote:

Does anyone think QF will regret getting rid of both or at least 1 of these frames?

evanb wrote:

tullamarine wrote:

QF are keen to reduce the number of types in its fleet so it makes sense that the A330 fleet be replaced by the 789 above and the A321XLR below.

In 10 years you'd think the QF fleet would be just 4 types A220, A321, B789 and A35K. It is possible that they will broaden within these types such as A225s (when it happens), A322 (if it happens), B78X and A359 (won't be both A359 and 78X) but there is realistically no likelihood of other types such as 737MAX, A330NEO or 779.

I guess 10 years is a long time in this business these days, but the A330 freighters are getting a fair bit of capital investment with their conversions. Given that freighters typically fly low cycles as well as the capital investment in them, it's likely that they'll still be in service in a decade.

moa999 wrote:

mrkerr7474 wrote:

Does anyone think QF will regret getting rid of both or at least 1 of these frames?

Personally doubt it. They were always trying to find routes for the last two frames.

It never really worked on DFW-SYD due to limitations (and that effectively used two frames).
Using dual 787s on SYD/MEL-DFW is much better.

And I'm not sure if HKG will develop the need for holiday 380 services ever again.

tullamarine wrote:

Yes, you are correct about the A330 freighters which will probably still be around but I was more speculating about the passenger fleet just as I don't think many think of the 763F when assessing the current fleet. With cross-crew certification possible with the A350 or A32X, it is probably less hassle keeping the A330F than the 767F which is a crewing orphan in the current fleet. Maintenance and rotables are a hassle but freighters are often older types than mainline fleet.

FromCDGtoSYD wrote:

moa999 wrote:

mrkerr7474 wrote:

Does anyone think QF will regret getting rid of both or at least 1 of these frames?

Personally doubt it. They were always trying to find routes for the last two frames.

It never really worked on DFW-SYD due to limitations (and that effectively used two frames).
Using dual 787s on SYD/MEL-DFW is much better.

And I'm not sure if HKG will develop the need for holiday 380 services ever again.

I suspect that had DFW not had restrictions on the westbound we could have seen the whale stick around. Unfortunately, I don’t think we’ll see it anywhere other than MEL/SYD-LHR/LAX. I can see MEL-SIN coming back but agreed HKG sounds better served with dreamliners. Maybe we’ll see more SYD-LAX flights at subdaily frequencies.

FromCDGtoSYD wrote:

I suspect that had DFW not had restrictions on the westbound we could have seen the whale stick around. Unfortunately, I don’t think we’ll see it anywhere other than MEL/SYD-LHR/LAX. I can see MEL-SIN coming back but agreed HKG sounds better served with dreamliners. Maybe we’ll see more SYD-LAX flights at subdaily frequencies.

EK413 wrote:

I’d say the A380 will continue to be the backbone serving SYD/MEL-LAX, SYD-SIN-LHR,MEL-SIN until A350’s are introduced.

As many already mention QF will most likely top-up their A350 order book with at least 8 frames to serve SYD/MEL-HKG (once it recovers), SYD-HND unless QF manage to to secure additional slot to serve MEL/BNE-HND daily, SYD-JNB, MEL-PER-LHR.

a320fan wrote:

So Bonzas flights are on sale, and it wasn’t a misreading or miscommunication of their pre launch press releases, flights are only for sale through the app. Seems like such a shortsighted and stupid business decision. I’m 100% of the smart phone generation but I’m not going to be booking flights or holidays on an app, that’s something I’m going to be jumping on a computer for. Then there’s the older generation who on their regional to MCY routes wouldn’t be an insignificant portion, who are likely to either be not confident in using their smartphones capabilities or maybe even don’t own one at all. Seems silly to make it harder to buy your product.

EK413 wrote:

FromCDGtoSYD wrote:

moa999 wrote:

Personally doubt it. They were always trying to find routes for the last two frames.

It never really worked on DFW-SYD due to limitations (and that effectively used two frames).
Using dual 787s on SYD/MEL-DFW is much better.

And I'm not sure if HKG will develop the need for holiday 380 services ever again.

I suspect that had DFW not had restrictions on the westbound we could have seen the whale stick around. Unfortunately, I don’t think we’ll see it anywhere other than MEL/SYD-LHR/LAX. I can see MEL-SIN coming back but agreed HKG sounds better served with dreamliners. Maybe we’ll see more SYD-LAX flights at subdaily frequencies.

I’d say the A380 will continue to be the backbone serving SYD/MEL-LAX, SYD-SIN-LHR,MEL-SIN until A350’s are introduced.

As many already mention QF will most likely top-up their A350 order book with at least 8 frames to serve SYD/MEL-HKG (once it recovers), SYD-HND unless QF manage to to secure additional slot to serve MEL/BNE-HND daily, SYD-JNB, MEL-PER-LHR.


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SCFlyer wrote:

HKG will take a long while to recover before there's any form of F demand. Unless if there's any F demand out of the BNE-LAX, I'd say QF will sell the F seats as J on the route. Thus HKG or BNE-LAX will likely be a 3-class service (with F seats sold as J) if both routes were to be up-gauged to a A380.

But I also have my doubts on the HKG recovery, going to take a while longer before justifying up-gauges. I think QF would bring BNE-HKG back at less than daily before up-gauging any of the existing HKG routes to A380s.

JJWess wrote:

I had doubts about QF going with the 787 to replace the A330’s due to delivery issues etc, but after just reading an article on Boeing and how they plan to hire thousands into their manufacturing plants… I have new hope.

But it’ll come down to who has the best deal I reckon. Isn’t the CFO heading the A330 replacement project anyway?