blrBird wrote:

SU A359 NTU's being delivered to AI are MSN 554, 555, 558, 589, 592, & 594.
The interior will be in SU config of B28/PE24/E264.

Unless they chose the same business class and PE seat, they are going to have a nightmare managing their configs. They have 3 versions of business class in ex AI 77W, 77L and 788. The have ex delta, they will also have ex EY plus this oddball A359 fleet. Hope they get some sense quickly.

Best, Subramanian

Which aircraft are ex EY ?

Also ex DL 77L's are going to be there for only 2 years from what i have heard.

manny wrote:

Which aircraft are ex EY ?

Also ex DL 77L's are going to be there for only 2 years from what i have heard.

See post # 132 for more info about ex EY birds

In the article linked below discussing the upcoming delivery of the A350's this year to Air India, AI CEO is quoted stating "Los Angeles has been constrained by aircraft range. That is not going to be the constraint any more." Maybe the A350 will finally open up LAX-DEL, which never happened after it was announced in 2017 (and "confirmed" in 2019).

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/air-india-ceo-campbell-wilson-exclusive-brand-new-air-india-by-end-of-2024-3818141

hl8208 wrote:

In the article linked below discussing the upcoming delivery of the A350's this year to Air India, AI CEO is quoted stating "Los Angeles has been constrained by aircraft range. That is not going to be the constraint any more." Maybe the A350 will finally open up LAX-DEL, which never happened after it was announced in 2017 (and "confirmed" in 2019).

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/air-india-ceo-campbell-wilson-exclusive-brand-new-air-india-by-end-of-2024-3818141

I'm sure the 777-200LR could fly DEL-LAX nonstop. I really think that if Air India wanted to fly DEL-LAX years ago, they could have but increased service to SFO instead.

3D101CA wrote:

hl8208 wrote:

In the article linked below discussing the upcoming delivery of the A350's this year to Air India, AI CEO is quoted stating "Los Angeles has been constrained by aircraft range. That is not going to be the constraint any more." Maybe the A350 will finally open up LAX-DEL, which never happened after it was announced in 2017 (and "confirmed" in 2019).

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/air-india-ceo-campbell-wilson-exclusive-brand-new-air-india-by-end-of-2024-3818141

I'm sure the 777-200LR could fly DEL-LAX nonstop. I really think that if Air India wanted to fly DEL-LAX years ago, they could have but increased service to SFO instead.

The differences being the A350 makes it far more economical to do so, and LAX appears to be offering financial incentives for new international flights. At the very least, the new leadership is obviously studying the potential, which is exciting.

hl8208 wrote:

In the article linked below discussing the upcoming delivery of the A350's this year to Air India, AI CEO is quoted stating "Los Angeles has been constrained by aircraft range. That is not going to be the constraint any more." Maybe the A350 will finally open up LAX-DEL, which never happened after it was announced in 2017 (and "confirmed" in 2019).

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/air-india-ceo-campbell-wilson-exclusive-brand-new-air-india-by-end-of-2024-3818141

If you followed the interview, you'd notice that the Campbell didn't first mention LAX. It is only when the interviewer asked the question, he responded with a factual technical standpoint, namely there is no constraint of an airplane to fly direct. He never implied that Air India would fly there.

subramak1 wrote:

blrBird wrote:

SU A359 NTU's being delivered to AI are MSN 554, 555, 558, 589, 592, & 594.
The interior will be in SU config of B28/PE24/E264.

Unless they chose the same business class and PE seat, they are going to have a nightmare managing their configs. They have 3 versions of business class in ex AI 77W, 77L and 788. The have ex delta, they will also have ex EY plus this oddball A359 fleet. Hope they get some sense quickly.

Best, Subramanian

Growing pains.

If one wants growth, its a bit unfair to expect a consistent product for the near future.

AI wants aircrafts asap, planes take time to manufacture and test, so they decided to get what is available.

oceanvikram wrote:

subramak1 wrote:

blrBird wrote:

SU A359 NTU's being delivered to AI are MSN 554, 555, 558, 589, 592, & 594.
The interior will be in SU config of B28/PE24/E264.

Unless they chose the same business class and PE seat, they are going to have a nightmare managing their configs. They have 3 versions of business class in ex AI 77W, 77L and 788. The have ex delta, they will also have ex EY plus this oddball A359 fleet. Hope they get some sense quickly.

Best, Subramanian

Growing pains.

If one wants growth, its a bit unfair to expect a consistent product for the near future.

AI wants aircrafts asap, planes take time to manufacture and test, so they decided to get what is available.

It's work in progress , give AI some time to fix the issues of their product and services , we will see a more consistent AI in say 10 to 15 years timeframe .

Two good articles on foreign airlines wanting more seats in advance of AI’s new planes and Emirates wanting more seats
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 023-03-21/
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 023-03-21/

Couple of thoughts:
1) Kudos to the Indian govt for saying they want at least one strong Indian airline that connects India nonstop to the world. Give AI some breathing room.
2) India has quite liberal bilaterals with most countries (Including the Middle East). So totally unfair to say that India is some how stifling Indian aviation.
3) Let’s take SQ they have a ton of flights to India and are the main funnel for flights to OZ. That is fine but now the time is for nonstops
4) Turkish’s comments are laughable. They need to ask themselves why they aren’t getting more flights. Look in the mirror please
5) EK oh EK - you built your business on India’s back and still want more. EK should be focused on developing tourism to Dubai. The best way to do that is for the UAE to allow all those unused UAE (non Dubai) to India seats be used for DXB-India. But they won’t do that. AI also seems to be pulling back some flights on the India -DXB routes and adding BOM/DEL-DXB seats (bigger planes). Think this is a great strategy. DXB loses more by not having inbound cheap seats for tourists from smaller Indian cities. AI should rightly focus on serving their core premium pax BOM/DEL as it hurts EK much more. At some point I think Dubai will have to allow UAE seats reallocated to DXB. Otherwise EK will need to draw down connecting pax from India and focus on O&D to feed tourism.
5) Unsaid in the article but I think EK’s UA partnership will put even more pressure on EK-India. My recollection is the UA flight will connect to EK’s main India bank. There are only so many seats…For EK to really benefit from UA partnership they need more India seats for a UA bank

CaliguyNYC wrote:

Two good articles on foreign airlines wanting more seats in advance of AI’s new planes and Emirates wanting more seats
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 023-03-21/
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 023-03-21/

Couple of thoughts:
1) Kudos to the Indian govt for saying they want at least one strong Indian airline that connects India nonstop to the world. Give AI some breathing room.
2) India has quite liberal bilaterals with most countries (Including the Middle East). So totally unfair to say that India is some how stifling Indian aviation.
3) Let’s take SQ they have a ton of flights to India and are the main funnel for flights to OZ. That is fine but now the time is for nonstops
4) Turkish’s comments are laughable. They need to ask themselves why they aren’t getting more flights. Look in the mirror please
5) EK oh EK - you built your business on India’s back and still want more. EK should be focused on developing tourism to Dubai. The best way to do that is for the UAE to allow all those unused UAE (non Dubai) to India seats be used for DXB-India. But they won’t do that. AI also seems to be pulling back some flights on the India -DXB routes and adding BOM/DEL-DXB seats (bigger planes). Think this is a great strategy. DXB loses more by not having inbound cheap seats for tourists from smaller Indian cities. AI should rightly focus on serving their core premium pax BOM/DEL as it hurts EK much more. At some point I think Dubai will have to allow UAE seats reallocated to DXB. Otherwise EK will need to draw down connecting pax from India and focus on O&D to feed tourism.
5) Unsaid in the article but I think EK’s UA partnership will put even more pressure on EK-India. My recollection is the UA flight will connect to EK’s main India bank. There are only so many seats…For EK to really benefit from UA partnership they need more India seats for a UA bank

While I agree it is important for there to be a strong Indian carrier, I disagree with your notion that increasing EK access to India is bad for the Indian consumer. Where AI and other Indian based airlines have historically fell short has always been in serving Indian airports outside of DEL/BOM. EK has been particularly good for serving South India, in providing a good product which is still miles better than AI. If we are looking at what’s best for the Indian consumer, I don’t see the issue in raising the bilateral capacity which has been static for more than 15 years…

Malayil wrote:

CaliguyNYC wrote:

Two good articles on foreign airlines wanting more seats in advance of AI’s new planes and Emirates wanting more seats
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 023-03-21/
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 023-03-21/

Couple of thoughts:
1) Kudos to the Indian govt for saying they want at least one strong Indian airline that connects India nonstop to the world. Give AI some breathing room.
2) India has quite liberal bilaterals with most countries (Including the Middle East). So totally unfair to say that India is some how stifling Indian aviation.
3) Let’s take SQ they have a ton of flights to India and are the main funnel for flights to OZ. That is fine but now the time is for nonstops
4) Turkish’s comments are laughable. They need to ask themselves why they aren’t getting more flights. Look in the mirror please
5) EK oh EK - you built your business on India’s back and still want more. EK should be focused on developing tourism to Dubai. The best way to do that is for the UAE to allow all those unused UAE (non Dubai) to India seats be used for DXB-India. But they won’t do that. AI also seems to be pulling back some flights on the India -DXB routes and adding BOM/DEL-DXB seats (bigger planes). Think this is a great strategy. DXB loses more by not having inbound cheap seats for tourists from smaller Indian cities. AI should rightly focus on serving their core premium pax BOM/DEL as it hurts EK much more. At some point I think Dubai will have to allow UAE seats reallocated to DXB. Otherwise EK will need to draw down connecting pax from India and focus on O&D to feed tourism.
5) Unsaid in the article but I think EK’s UA partnership will put even more pressure on EK-India. My recollection is the UA flight will connect to EK’s main India bank. There are only so many seats…For EK to really benefit from UA partnership they need more India seats for a UA bank

While I agree it is important for there to be a strong Indian carrier, I disagree with your notion that increasing EK access to India is bad for the Indian consumer. Where AI and other Indian based airlines have historically fell short has always been in serving Indian airports outside of DEL/BOM. EK has been particularly good for serving South India, in providing a good product which is still miles better than AI. If we are looking at what’s best for the Indian consumer, I don’t see the issue in raising the bilateral capacity which has been static for more than 15 years…

In addition, the Indian aviation industry is much more than AI or "Tata Aviation".

I believe that even with reduced Indian transit market, ME3 will be fine. There is always the O&D market which is generally more profitable than the transit market. And travelers in or flying to Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, Thailand, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, China, Bangladesh, Australia and New Zealand will continue to use EK as per usual.

oceanvikram wrote:

Malayil wrote:

CaliguyNYC wrote:

Two good articles on foreign airlines wanting more seats in advance of AI’s new planes and Emirates wanting more seats
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 023-03-21/
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 023-03-21/

Couple of thoughts:
1) Kudos to the Indian govt for saying they want at least one strong Indian airline that connects India nonstop to the world. Give AI some breathing room.
2) India has quite liberal bilaterals with most countries (Including the Middle East). So totally unfair to say that India is some how stifling Indian aviation.
3) Let’s take SQ they have a ton of flights to India and are the main funnel for flights to OZ. That is fine but now the time is for nonstops
4) Turkish’s comments are laughable. They need to ask themselves why they aren’t getting more flights. Look in the mirror please
5) EK oh EK - you built your business on India’s back and still want more. EK should be focused on developing tourism to Dubai. The best way to do that is for the UAE to allow all those unused UAE (non Dubai) to India seats be used for DXB-India. But they won’t do that. AI also seems to be pulling back some flights on the India -DXB routes and adding BOM/DEL-DXB seats (bigger planes). Think this is a great strategy. DXB loses more by not having inbound cheap seats for tourists from smaller Indian cities. AI should rightly focus on serving their core premium pax BOM/DEL as it hurts EK much more. At some point I think Dubai will have to allow UAE seats reallocated to DXB. Otherwise EK will need to draw down connecting pax from India and focus on O&D to feed tourism.
5) Unsaid in the article but I think EK’s UA partnership will put even more pressure on EK-India. My recollection is the UA flight will connect to EK’s main India bank. There are only so many seats…For EK to really benefit from UA partnership they need more India seats for a UA bank

While I agree it is important for there to be a strong Indian carrier, I disagree with your notion that increasing EK access to India is bad for the Indian consumer. Where AI and other Indian based airlines have historically fell short has always been in serving Indian airports outside of DEL/BOM. EK has been particularly good for serving South India, in providing a good product which is still miles better than AI. If we are looking at what’s best for the Indian consumer, I don’t see the issue in raising the bilateral capacity which has been static for more than 15 years…

In addition, the Indian aviation industry is much more than AI or "Tata Aviation".

I believe that even with reduced Indian transit market, ME3 will be fine. There is always the O&D market which is generally more profitable than the transit market. And travelers in or flying to Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, Thailand, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, China, Bangladesh, Australia and New Zealand will continue to use EK as per usual.

But why should traffic flows be diminished? As we know the Indian aviation market is growing; however, domestic carriers have been unable to provide a consistent product through multiple metros. The India-Dubai bilateral hasn’t been raised in at least 15 years. Clearly there is demand for the product.

3D101CA wrote:

AI will be increasing LHR-DEL to 17 weekly flights.

https://simpleflying.com/heathrow-delhi-record-flights/

According to this article, AI will be ending service from LHR to Ahmedabad, Amritsar, Goa, Hyderabad, and Kochi. I guess service from secondary Indian cities to Europe is being cut. I guess the new strategy is to only fly to Europe from BOM and DEL now.

Maybe ATQ-BHX will be dropped and only a daily nonstop DEL-BHX will exist? No news on ATQ-BHX being cut now, but yet again ATQ is losing service to Europe once again partly with LHR being dropped.

They were going to introduce services from AMD, GOI and COK to LGW. What happened to that?

DIJKKIJK wrote:

3D101CA wrote:

AI will be increasing LHR-DEL to 17 weekly flights.

https://simpleflying.com/heathrow-delhi-record-flights/

According to this article, AI will be ending service from LHR to Ahmedabad, Amritsar, Goa, Hyderabad, and Kochi. I guess service from secondary Indian cities to Europe is being cut. I guess the new strategy is to only fly to Europe from BOM and DEL now.

Maybe ATQ-BHX will be dropped and only a daily nonstop DEL-BHX will exist? No news on ATQ-BHX being cut now, but yet again ATQ is losing service to Europe once again partly with LHR being dropped.

They were going to introduce services from AMD, GOI and COK to LGW. What happened to that?

Still on. No mention of any changes. Though for people going to Manchester/Leicester, BHX/MAN or even STN would be more logical than LGW which is south of LHR. If there are connectivity issues from LGW to these areas, AIs load factors could face challenges.

CaliguyNYC wrote:

5) EK oh EK - you built your business on India’s back and still want more. EK should be focused on developing tourism to Dubai. The best way to do that is for the UAE to allow all those unused UAE (non Dubai) to India seats be used for DXB-India. But they won’t do that. AI also seems to be pulling back some flights on the India -DXB routes and adding BOM/DEL-DXB seats (bigger planes). Think this is a great strategy. DXB loses more by not having inbound cheap seats for tourists from smaller Indian cities. AI should rightly focus on serving their core premium pax BOM/DEL as it hurts EK much more. At some point I think Dubai will have to allow UAE seats reallocated to DXB. Otherwise EK will need to draw down connecting pax from India and focus on O&D to feed tourism.

AI has been serving only its 'premium' pax from DEL/BOM for years now, and is yet to make a dime of profit, while EK serves multiple destinations across India and rakes in the moolah. I still cannot stop wondering how the Indian aviation 'experts' in places like Delhi do not notice this? Either they are stupid or blind, or are principal agents working for the Gulf 3.

The notion of a single big hub that has worked so well in European countries or the UAE won't work in a large and complex market like India. While having a good hub with feed is necessary, any airline wishing to make profits in India must look beyond DEL/BOM and cater even to demands for specific destinations from non-hub cities like HYD, BLR, COK, MAA and ATQ. This has been known for years now.

AI seems to have learned this in recent years and have taken small steps by introducing flights from the non hub destinations to the Gulf and far east. It would be sad if they went back on this and handed the market to the Gulf 3 or other carriers.

Malayil wrote:

oceanvikram wrote:

Malayil wrote:

While I agree it is important for there to be a strong Indian carrier, I disagree with your notion that increasing EK access to India is bad for the Indian consumer. Where AI and other Indian based airlines have historically fell short has always been in serving Indian airports outside of DEL/BOM. EK has been particularly good for serving South India, in providing a good product which is still miles better than AI. If we are looking at what’s best for the Indian consumer, I don’t see the issue in raising the bilateral capacity which has been static for more than 15 years…

In addition, the Indian aviation industry is much more than AI or "Tata Aviation".

I believe that even with reduced Indian transit market, ME3 will be fine. There is always the O&D market which is generally more profitable than the transit market. And travelers in or flying to Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, Thailand, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, China, Bangladesh, Australia and New Zealand will continue to use EK as per usual.

But why should traffic flows be diminished? As we know the Indian aviation market is growing; however, domestic carriers have been unable to provide a consistent product through multiple metros. The India-Dubai bilateral hasn’t been raised in at least 15 years. Clearly there is demand for the product.

Valid point, you could be right that traffic will not diminish for ME3, but if EK are asking for more slots then they are sensing something or an opportunity to capture the 2nd tier and 3rd tier cities for good since AI is focusing DEL, to some extent BOM and BLR.

The more I think about it, AI non-stop to North America will not diminish ME3's market share.

oceanvikram wrote:

Valid point, you could be right that traffic will not diminish for ME3, but if EK are asking for more slots then they are sensing something or an opportunity to capture the 2nd tier and 3rd tier cities for good since AI is focusing DEL, to some extent BOM and BLR.

.

Sir, this has been the case for ages now. There has been plenty of evidence that a certain former government was actively encouraging this too.

However, back then AI was under govt control and its management couldn't have done much. They must address this now.

This is a double edged sword, protectionism can also backfire.

Places like Dubai, Kuwait, Doha have bilaterals exhausted by both sides, Its getting very expensive to fly there for the common folks who work there. Bilaterals needs to increase, but in a slow phased manner.

India to/from traffic has benefitted EK well but not to the extent it was built on it.

https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/ ... wth-251103
Per the link (I know it is old [2015] but gives an idea), India traffic was contributing 9.1% to total EK traffic.

But no denying that with the courtsey of Gulf carriers lots of places in world ended up being 1 stop option for majority of Indians south of Vindhiyas, which no Indian airlines would have given! I don't think this is will change for the majority of people barring few blips here and there in near future.

Even if AI becomes profitable, the damage of foreign competition into the Indian market cannot be undone. You are not going to see airlines like QR and EK largely reduce capacity to India ever. Even with the expansion of AI, a portion of the Indian market still chooses to fly one stop on competitors.

India is a prime example of an aviation market that a flag carrier cannot fully control. Government mismanagement messed up the airline, market share was lost to competitors, and a bad reputation for AI isn't going to go away anytime soon. Even worse if foreign carriers get a massive amount of new capacity, it won't help AI at all.

Malayil wrote:

CaliguyNYC wrote:

Two good articles on foreign airlines wanting more seats in advance of AI’s new planes and Emirates wanting more seats
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 023-03-21/
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 023-03-21/

Couple of thoughts:
1) Kudos to the Indian govt for saying they want at least one strong Indian airline that connects India nonstop to the world. Give AI some breathing room.
2) India has quite liberal bilaterals with most countries (Including the Middle East). So totally unfair to say that India is some how stifling Indian aviation.
3) Let’s take SQ they have a ton of flights to India and are the main funnel for flights to OZ. That is fine but now the time is for nonstops
4) Turkish’s comments are laughable. They need to ask themselves why they aren’t getting more flights. Look in the mirror please
5) EK oh EK - you built your business on India’s back and still want more. EK should be focused on developing tourism to Dubai. The best way to do that is for the UAE to allow all those unused UAE (non Dubai) to India seats be used for DXB-India. But they won’t do that. AI also seems to be pulling back some flights on the India -DXB routes and adding BOM/DEL-DXB seats (bigger planes). Think this is a great strategy. DXB loses more by not having inbound cheap seats for tourists from smaller Indian cities. AI should rightly focus on serving their core premium pax BOM/DEL as it hurts EK much more. At some point I think Dubai will have to allow UAE seats reallocated to DXB. Otherwise EK will need to draw down connecting pax from India and focus on O&D to feed tourism.
5) Unsaid in the article but I think EK’s UA partnership will put even more pressure on EK-India. My recollection is the UA flight will connect to EK’s main India bank. There are only so many seats…For EK to really benefit from UA partnership they need more India seats for a UA bank

While I agree it is important for there to be a strong Indian carrier, I disagree with your notion that increasing EK access to India is bad for the Indian consumer. Where AI and other Indian based airlines have historically fell short has always been in serving Indian airports outside of DEL/BOM. EK has been particularly good for serving South India, in providing a good product which is still miles better than AI. If we are looking at what’s best for the Indian consumer, I don’t see the issue in raising the bilateral capacity which has been static for more than 15 years…

To the above poster and the others commenting on my general points - I am in no way saying EK should be pushed out or not serve cities or is bad for Indian consumers. I am saying that AI is rightly moving its seats away from lower yield secondary cities to DXB and moving to core Kerela and BOM/DEL. EK could easily move one wide body from BOM (they fly 5x plus fly Dubai) and have Fly Dubai fly 2 flights daily to secondary cities - but they won’t. I am saying that for Dubai the city to grow with Indian tourists, EK should focus on India-DXB more and worry less about connecting pax - but again they won’t because they want a global network. Also I am very glad India has liberal bilaterals with US/EU/ASEAN etc where these carriers can begin flights to many Indian cities (but do not - and I will just say a strong AI is not what is stopping them, it is the ME3). I am saying all this to point out to people who say India (the country) doesn’t need one global hub but rather should just have p2p flights. I am not even from DEL and don’t even fly through it much. This is about the economics of airlines (hubs work) and development of the country overall (you need globally connected cities). I would argue, India is well connected with one stop options because of the ME3 - task accomplished. Someone from MAA or HYD can reach cities around the world flying east and west through close neighbor hubs - all happily approved by the GOI. What AI has shown, when even a crappy airline like the old AI operates an Indian hub (DEL) pax from all over India will use it (personal opinions of some here aside, this is a fact). So great - it is called options. Fly AI or don’t; fly ME3 or don’t; fly US and EU or don’t; take the long way to NA by SQ - all great - options, options, options and then jobs jobs jobs for Indians.

sibibom wrote:

This is a double edged sword, protectionism can also backfire.

Places like Dubai, Kuwait, Doha have bilaterals exhausted by both sides, Its getting very expensive to fly there for the common folks who work there. Bilaterals needs to increase, but in a slow phased manner.

Increasing bilaterals for for destinations like Doha and Kuwait is fine. But doubling the bilaterals to DXB is going to hurt india getting sustainable non-stops. If not AI, I am sure cities like Mumbai can be served by direct by the likes of Austrian Airlines, Air Lingus, Iberia, Brussels Airlines, SAS, TAP Air Portugal, Air Astana, Uzbekistan Airways and Aegean Airlines someday if EK can be stopped operating any more capacity than the 5 widebodies they currently do.
And if UAE still insists, increasing seats to SHJ is an option.

Do we have a thread for the consolidation of AI brands?

subramak1 wrote:

Unless they chose the same business class and PE seat, they are going to have a nightmare managing their configs. They have 3 versions of business class in ex AI 77W, 77L and 788. The have ex delta, they will also have ex EY plus this oddball A359 fleet.

manny wrote:

Also ex DL 77L's are going to be there for only 2 years from what i have heard.

AI confirmed "48seats" in Premium Economy for the B777-200LR, so they will use the same configuration and seats as Delta in all classes? Or will we see a 3-4-3 seating in Y?!

https://www.airindia.in/writereaddata/P ... 3-2023.pdf

TK appears to be circumventing the bilaterals. The 777 wet lease by Indigo is a charade. It is operated by City Air which may be connected to TK anyway. India does not need more service to Turkey as it is not a heavy O&D market and most of the traffic is beyond Turkey. The painting of the plane on Indigo colors is just to get around Indian bilateral restrictions.

Also someone earlier commented on why EK or QR do not fly to more Indian cities. Reason is India had given enough traffic rights to UAE and Qatar and not interested in given any more. EK is restricted to 9 Indian cities and QR is around 11. Even if India increases the traffic volume, it will not give rights to new cities. Traffic to secondary cities are largely operated by Indian carriers and this is the only area where Indian carriers have advantage. If flying to DXB costs more, then fly to Sharjah or Abu Dhabi, they are not that far and bilaterals to these UAE cities have still some room.

hohd wrote:

TK appears to be circumventing the bilaterals. The 777 wet lease by Indigo is a charade. It is operated by City Air which may be connected to TK anyway. India does not need more service to Turkey as it is not a heavy O&D market and most of the traffic is beyond Turkey. The painting of the plane on Indigo colors is just to get around Indian bilateral restrictions.

Also someone earlier commented on why EK or QR do not fly to more Indian cities. Reason is India had given enough traffic rights to UAE and Qatar and not interested in given any more. EK is restricted to 9 Indian cities and QR is around 11. Even if India increases the traffic volume, it will not give rights to new cities. Traffic to secondary cities are largely operated by Indian carriers and this is the only area where Indian carriers have advantage. If flying to DXB costs more, then fly to Sharjah or Abu Dhabi, they are not that far and bilaterals to these UAE cities have still some room.

I understand your proposal to increase flights to Sharjah and Abu Dhabi because there is space in those bilaterals, but if people want to fly to DXB why restrict them? I live in MAN, I much prefer flying out of that airport than Liverpool or Leeds even though those airports may theoretically have more capacity to serve flights. I know this is not completely analogous to the situation you’re describing but I think the focus should be on what the customer wants, but maybe I’m wrong.

srbom wrote:

sibibom wrote:

This is a double edged sword, protectionism can also backfire.

Places like Dubai, Kuwait, Doha have bilaterals exhausted by both sides, Its getting very expensive to fly there for the common folks who work there. Bilaterals needs to increase, but in a slow phased manner.

Increasing bilaterals for for destinations like Doha and Kuwait is fine. But doubling the bilaterals to DXB is going to hurt india getting sustainable non-stops. If not AI, I am sure cities like Mumbai can be served by direct by the likes of Austrian Airlines, Air Lingus, Iberia, Brussels Airlines, SAS, TAP Air Portugal, Air Astana, Uzbekistan Airways and Aegean Airlines someday if EK can be stopped operating any more capacity than the 5 widebodies they currently do.
And if UAE still insists, increasing seats to SHJ is an option.

You can increase bilaterals but put a restriction on 5th freedom rights.
I cannot believe India allowed EK to have so much capacity at the expense of Indian airlines.

manny wrote:

srbom wrote:

sibibom wrote:

This is a double edged sword, protectionism can also backfire.

Places like Dubai, Kuwait, Doha have bilaterals exhausted by both sides, Its getting very expensive to fly there for the common folks who work there. Bilaterals needs to increase, but in a slow phased manner.

Increasing bilaterals for for destinations like Doha and Kuwait is fine. But doubling the bilaterals to DXB is going to hurt india getting sustainable non-stops. If not AI, I am sure cities like Mumbai can be served by direct by the likes of Austrian Airlines, Air Lingus, Iberia, Brussels Airlines, SAS, TAP Air Portugal, Air Astana, Uzbekistan Airways and Aegean Airlines someday if EK can be stopped operating any more capacity than the 5 widebodies they currently do.
And if UAE still insists, increasing seats to SHJ is an option.

You can increase bilaterals but put a restriction on 5th freedom rights.
I cannot believe India allowed EK to have so much capacity at the expense of Indian airlines.

I guess but not really done. The issue is that EK can reallocate seats between cities but it won’t. EK knows it needs to dump seats in places like BOM and DEL to keep Indian airlines weak.That said, I think the market has matured so much that finally demand in India is far surpassing EK’s ability to dilute an Indian carrier’s yield. Add to that Qatar is stuck without new seats and Etihad is contracting AND flight habits changed over COVID. Now you finally have a chance for an Indian airline to expand.

To the poster about TK - totally agree and the Indian govt noted that. They gave Indigo one year (instead of 6 months)with this wet lease. My guess is that Indigo got such a good deal through TK, that the deal was worth moving for award with. In the end, the GOI knows having Indigo enter long haul is good for India. If they do it on TK’s back so be it. I hope the GOI never does what it did with Etihad and Jet - a bailout for an Indian airline in return for seats. The bigger question is why did Inigo launch BOM/DEL and not HYD and BLR? TK already serves BOM/DEL. My 2 cents - Indigo is more concerned about building its brand in BOM/DEL than making a little bit more in cities TK doesn’t serve (perhaps short sided)

CaliguyNYC wrote:

The bigger question is why did Inigo launch BOM/DEL and not HYD and BLR? TK already serves BOM/DEL. My 2 cents - Indigo is more concerned about building its brand in BOM/DEL than making a little bit more in cities TK doesn’t serve (perhaps short sided)

Would love to hear your 2 cents on why Vistara, despite being awarded daily slots at London Heathrow for BOM - LHR, and having an aircraft just for it, chose to only start 5x weekly? I mean what can possibly be more important/valuable than not going for an additional 2x weekly slots handed on a platter?

https://simpleflying.com/vistara-announ ... w-flights/

https://networkthoughts.com/2023/03/31/ ... -heathrow/

Malayil wrote:

I understand your proposal to increase flights to Sharjah and Abu Dhabi because there is space in those bilaterals, but if people want to fly to DXB why restrict them? I live in MAN, I much prefer flying out of that airport than Liverpool or Leeds even though those airports may theoretically have more capacity to serve flights. I know this is not completely analogous to the situation you’re describing but I think the focus should be on what the customer wants

Excellent point. This reminds me of what Tim Clark CEO of Emirates said on his recent trip to India for a CAPA conference. basically he said that passengers were forced to use British Airways self-determined schedules to fly the world, instead of figuring out what schedules the passengers preferred. He used this insight to essentially position Emirates as a better option to BA.

Not sure this was posted here but...
BLR and HYD has replaced MAA and CCU as PoC between India - Vietnam bilaterals. This could likely help VietJet launch the flights to BLR and HYD, which was planned to launch in late 2022.

Question is, will there be any reduction in seats or freq btw India and Vietnam, post the change in PoCs or BASA?

sand26391 wrote:

Not sure this was posted here but...
Question is, will there be any reduction in seats or freq btw India and Vietnam, post the change in PoCs or BASA?

Highly unlikely as this was kinda of add-on with the other bilateral discussions with Vietnam, more of quid pro quo for future defense procurement's..

edealinfo wrote:

CaliguyNYC wrote:

The bigger question is why did Inigo launch BOM/DEL and not HYD and BLR? TK already serves BOM/DEL. My 2 cents - Indigo is more concerned about building its brand in BOM/DEL than making a little bit more in cities TK doesn’t serve (perhaps short sided)

Would love to hear your 2 cents on why Vistara, despite being awarded daily slots at London Heathrow for BOM - LHR, and having an aircraft just for it, chose to only start 5x weekly? I mean what can possibly be more important/valuable than not going for an additional 2x weekly slots handed on a platter?

https://simpleflying.com/vistara-announ ... w-flights/

https://networkthoughts.com/2023/03/31/ ... -heathrow/

Malayil wrote:

I understand your proposal to increase flights to Sharjah and Abu Dhabi because there is space in those bilaterals, but if people want to fly to DXB why restrict them? I live in MAN, I much prefer flying out of that airport than Liverpool or Leeds even though those airports may theoretically have more capacity to serve flights. I know this is not completely analogous to the situation you’re describing but I think the focus should be on what the customer wants

Excellent point. This reminds me of what Tim Clark CEO of Emirates said on his recent trip to India for a CAPA conference. basically he said that passengers were forced to use British Airways self-determined schedules to fly the world, instead of figuring out what schedules the passengers preferred. He used this insight to essentially position Emirates as a better option to BA.

Vistara got last minute temporary slots from LHR. They didn’t lose anything per se. Each season there are slots that aren’t being used. My guess as to why they didn’t go daily is operational reliability of their small 787 fleet - they have always been conservative like this. Did you think there was some other reason?

As to EK’s comments on BA, I totally agree. I love that AI is building their EU and US banks by what timing works for Indian pax. The at said EK’s and the ME3’s main bank involves a departure from india at 4am which is probably the Worst departure time known on this earth. But look it works great for departures from the Middle East - so the ME3 is hardly putting india first - they are building global hubs in their country for their countries growth with Indian pax. Don’t know why this is a controversial fact for some.

To the poster you quoted - no one is limiting people wanting to fly to DXB - that city has the broadest connectivity and seat access to india than anyone - there is plenty of capacity. EK knows it can’t drive its global ambition if india gets even the fraction of nonstop city pair flights it deserves. Also the UAE should just allow unused seats from AUH to be used for DXB - but they won’t agree. This has never been about an innocent just wanting what’s best for consumers etc. EK has done everything it can to stifle Indian connectivity by always adding more flights just as airfares rise to a level that Indian carriers can actually make a flight work. COVID and Ukrain have really helped make india nonstops work.

CaliguyNYC wrote:

Vistara got last minute temporary slots from LHR. They didn’t lose anything per se. Each season there are slots that aren’t being used. My guess as to why they didn’t go daily is operational reliability of their small 787 fleet - they have always been conservative like this. Did you think there was some other reason?

1. Maybe you can interpret this? Does it mean it doesn't have maintenance slots so it would rather give up 2x LHR slots? Wouldn't it be better to invest more in maintenance and reap the rewards?
https://twitter.com/SisiraKantDash/stat ... 5223293954

2. What's the chance that seasonal slots get carried over to the next season as well? Is it more typical to carry over or not carry over?

3. How did they get last minute slots? Wouldn't other airlines too have wanted it? What gave Vistara preference over others given that it already has permanent slots (for DEL-LHR)?

Thank you in advance.

edealinfo wrote:

CaliguyNYC wrote:

Vistara got last minute temporary slots from LHR. They didn’t lose anything per se. Each season there are slots that aren’t being used. My guess as to why they didn’t go daily is operational reliability of their small 787 fleet - they have always been conservative like this. Did you think there was some other reason?

1. Maybe you can interpret this? Does it mean it doesn't have maintenance slots so it would rather give up 2x LHR slots? Wouldn't it be better to invest more in maintenance and reap the rewards?
https://twitter.com/SisiraKantDash/stat ... 5223293954

2. What's the chance that seasonal slots get carried over to the next season as well? Is it more typical to carry over or not carry over?

3. How did they get last minute slots? Wouldn't other airlines too have wanted it? What gave Vistara preference over others given that it already has permanent slots (for DEL-LHR)?

Thank you in advance.

So I don’t have any inside info, but Vistara seems to have always kept 1/2 days where they have a 787 not flying. Looks like the plane used for BOM-LHR would be used to provide some breathing room in operations. I don’t think any airline can operate a fleet of 4 787s where all planes are flying 24/7. Normally airlines have like one spare plane if their fleet is big enough.

As far as slots, Vistara and AI had a good run in getting excess last min temp slots. The 10pm LHR departure are probably the least wanted (in fact 15 years ago Jet got 2 daily pairs for free and I believe gave them back). If I was LHR I would want to give slots for say LHGR-BLR or AMD. But let’s see what is Vistara/AI’s strategy after they merge.

CaliguyNYC wrote:

edealinfo wrote:

CaliguyNYC wrote:

1. The 10pm LHR departure are probably the least wanted (in fact 15 years ago Jet got 2 daily pairs for free and I believe gave them back).
2. If I was LHR I would want to give slots for say LHGR-BLR or AMD. But let’s see what is Vistara/AI’s strategy after they merge.

Firstly thanks for your response.

1. Why would a 10pm LHR departure not be a preferred choice? Doesn't that ensure one can still have a full day of work in London?

2. LHR slot coordinator's report indicates that for summer a) BLR got additional slots and b) Air India got 3x weekly additional slots. Putting 2 and 2 together, this implies 3X Air India flights to BLR. But so far, Air India hasn't confirmed it. On the other hand, who know if these BLR slots are for Virgin?

edealinfo wrote:

CaliguyNYC wrote:

edealinfo wrote:

Firstly thanks for your response.

1. Why would a 10pm LHR departure not be a preferred choice? Doesn't that ensure one can still have a full day of work in London?

2. LHR slot coordinator's report indicates that for summer a) BLR got additional slots and b) Air India got 3x weekly additional slots. Putting 2 and 2 together, this implies 3X Air India flights to BLR. But so far, Air India hasn't confirmed it. On the other hand, who know if these BLR slots are for Virgin?

Sure

1. It is all about landing and takeoff timings that are on offer and North American travel - those slots that are described as less popular have arrival into LHR at 8/9pm and departure from LHR at 10/10:45pm. These timings wouldn't work for USA/Canada or most of the world. Remember most EU airports have curfews so even those short flights can't be done. Not saying there aren't city pairs that can make it work but airlines would have non optimal timings and high costs - see Air Maurtius (MU) leaving LHR for LGW

2. My understanding is the 3 AI slots are those leased by AI from Garuda Indonesia. AI deployed them on DEL-LHR (bookable). Those slot timings match UK's Daily LHR-DEL flight. Perhaps once they merge, AI will deploy the 3 slots to BLR given they will already have a flight at that time to DEL. That said, I totally feel VS should add LHR-BLR. They know AI wants to add it (as AI has flown it before). BLR's pax demo is ideal for VS. VS would use the lHR-LHE/ISB slots for the flights that end in July, but I don't think they announce what they are doing with those slots yet. Personally I think AI/UK were wrong in adding UK's LHR-BOM. They should have added BLR. But it seems they want to eventually be 3X Daily LHR-BOM&DEL. Finally on why LHR-BOM is 5X - with MU announcing moving to LGW they have 5 slots per week from LHR - maybe AI is buying those so it knows it will stabilize with 5 flights?

CaliguyNYC wrote:

2. My understanding is the 3 AI slots are those leased by AI from Garuda Indonesia. AI deployed them on DEL-LHR (bookable). Those slot timings match UK's Daily LHR-DEL flight. Perhaps once they merge, AI will deploy the 3 slots to BLR given they will already have a flight at that time to DEL. That said, I totally feel VS should add LHR-BLR. They know AI wants to add it (as AI has flown it before). BLR's pax demo is ideal for VS. VS would use the lHR-LHE/ISB slots for the flights that end in July, but I don't think they announce what they are doing with those slots yet. Personally I think AI/UK were wrong in adding UK's LHR-BOM. They should have added BLR. But it seems they want to eventually be 3X Daily LHR-BOM&DEL. Finally on why LHR-BOM is 5X - with MU announcing moving to LGW they have 5 slots per week from LHR - maybe AI is buying those so it knows it will stabilize with 5 flights?

Probably AI wants to build up/stabilize their network from DEL/BOM before they venture to other big metros?

There is rumor mill going around that VS BLR venture is in the works but who knows!

CaliguyNYC wrote:

[
1. It is all about landing and takeoff timings that are on offer and North American travel - those slots that are described as less popular have arrival into LHR at 8/9pm and departure from LHR at 10/10:45pm. These timings wouldn't work for USA/Canada or most of the world. Remember most EU airports have curfews so even those short flights can't be done. Not saying there aren't city pairs that can make it work but airlines would have non optimal timings and high costs - see Air Maurtius (MU) leaving LHR for LGW
2. My understanding is the 3 AI slots are those leased by AI from Garuda Indonesia. AI deployed them on DEL-LHR (bookable). Those slot timings match UK's Daily LHR-DEL flight. Perhaps once they merge, AI will deploy the 3 slots to BLR given they will already have a flight at that time to DEL. That said, I totally feel VS should add LHR-BLR. They know AI wants to add it (as AI has flown it before). BLR's pax demo is ideal for VS. VS would use the lHR-LHE/ISB slots for the flights that end in July, but I don't think they announce what they are doing with those slots yet. Personally I think AI/UK were wrong in adding UK's LHR-BOM. They should have added BLR. But it seems they want to eventually be 3X Daily LHR-BOM&DEL. Finally on why LHR-BOM is 5X - with MU announcing moving to LGW they have 5 slots per week from LHR - maybe AI is buying those so it knows it will stabilize with 5 flights?

1.
Ok, I get your points, but even without connections at LHR isn't this still good for point to point traffic?

2.
a) Air India and Vistara are still not under the same roof so they can't complete as yet and so, IMHO shouldn't be considered as a single entity.
b) UK probably added BOM as it and AI want to lock out Indigo and others since LHR to BOM/DEL rights are capped at 56X weekly.
c) See below for Air Mauritius slot swap. For S23 they did a "slot swap" with Royal Brunei. But the new times don't seem to match with Vistara's BOM-LHR or am I not reading it right? MK moves to Gatwick in Winter but there's no indication to who they have sold or leased the LHR slots to.
https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/uploa ... -to-MK.jpg
https://www.acl-uk.org/completed-slot-trades/?
https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... 787-route/
Thanks.

blrBird wrote:

CaliguyNYC wrote:

2. My understanding is the 3 AI slots are those leased by AI from Garuda Indonesia. AI deployed them on DEL-LHR (bookable). Those slot timings match UK's Daily LHR-DEL flight. Perhaps once they merge, AI will deploy the 3 slots to BLR given they will already have a flight at that time to DEL. That said, I totally feel VS should add LHR-BLR. They know AI wants to add it (as AI has flown it before). BLR's pax demo is ideal for VS. VS would use the lHR-LHE/ISB slots for the flights that end in July, but I don't think they announce what they are doing with those slots yet. Personally I think AI/UK were wrong in adding UK's LHR-BOM. They should have added BLR. But it seems they want to eventually be 3X Daily LHR-BOM&DEL. Finally on why LHR-BOM is 5X - with MU announcing moving to LGW they have 5 slots per week from LHR - maybe AI is buying those so it knows it will stabilize with 5 flights?

There is rumor mill going around that VS BLR venture is in the works but who knows!

Have been hearing this from the start of this year. Let's see if this materialises kr just based in rumours. Plus MUC BLR also, they say will likely restart somewhere this winter.

CaliguyNYC wrote:

The bigger question is why did Inigo launch BOM/DEL and not HYD and BLR? TK already serves BOM/DEL. My 2 cents - Indigo is more concerned about building its brand in BOM/DEL than making a little bit more in cities TK doesn’t serve (perhaps short sided)

I dont think Indigo can fly HYD or BLR to IST even if it wanted to. That would be a back door entry for TK to get into these cities. My guess is that the bilaterals between India and Turkey are restricted to only 2 cities - BOM and DEL.

Also it is time that Tata starts better coordination between Vistara and AI. There are many domestic flights which leave at the same time within India and can use some separation. They are going to merge and it is inevitable that they start this early on.

edealinfo wrote:

CaliguyNYC wrote:

[
1. It is all about landing and takeoff timings that are on offer and North American travel - those slots that are described as less popular have arrival into LHR at 8/9pm and departure from LHR at 10/10:45pm. These timings wouldn't work for USA/Canada or most of the world. Remember most EU airports have curfews so even those short flights can't be done. Not saying there aren't city pairs that can make it work but airlines would have non optimal timings and high costs - see Air Maurtius (MU) leaving LHR for LGW
2. My understanding is the 3 AI slots are those leased by AI from Garuda Indonesia. AI deployed them on DEL-LHR (bookable). Those slot timings match UK's Daily LHR-DEL flight. Perhaps once they merge, AI will deploy the 3 slots to BLR given they will already have a flight at that time to DEL. That said, I totally feel VS should add LHR-BLR. They know AI wants to add it (as AI has flown it before). BLR's pax demo is ideal for VS. VS would use the lHR-LHE/ISB slots for the flights that end in July, but I don't think they announce what they are doing with those slots yet. Personally I think AI/UK were wrong in adding UK's LHR-BOM. They should have added BLR. But it seems they want to eventually be 3X Daily LHR-BOM&DEL. Finally on why LHR-BOM is 5X - with MU announcing moving to LGW they have 5 slots per week from LHR - maybe AI is buying those so it knows it will stabilize with 5 flights?

1.
Ok, I get your points, but even without connections at LHR isn't this still good for point to point traffic?

2.
a) Air India and Vistara are still not under the same roof so they can't complete as yet and so, IMHO shouldn't be considered as a single entity.
b) UK probably added BOM as it and AI want to lock out Indigo and others since LHR to BOM/DEL rights are capped at 56X weekly.
c) See below for Air Mauritius slot swap. For S23 they did a "slot swap" with Royal Brunei. But the new times don't seem to match with Vistara's BOM-LHR or am I not reading it right? MK moves to Gatwick in Winter but there's no indication to who they have sold or leased the LHR slots to.
https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/uploa ... -to-MK.jpg
https://www.acl-uk.org/completed-slot-trades/?
https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... 787-route/
Thanks.

1. - yeah I was answering why they generally weren't popular timings at Heathrow. For India they actually are decent slots
2b - great point never thought of that and think you are spot on
2c - I meant that the Garuda slots mapped to Vistara's Delhi timings. Vistara's BOM-LHR timings map to AI's current BOM flight. MU's slots would be different but are still 5X a week. So from a total seats perspective AI/UK could be focusing on 5X per week since eventually they might have MU (but who knows). That said, I think the main reason they went 5X is because of their lack of spare 789 aircraft

ATDB is reporting that AI has parked two 787-8’s. I thought they were short on long haul aircraft?

CaliguyNYC wrote:

I think the main reason Vistara went 5X is because of their lack of spare 789 aircraft

That depends on how you look at it.
1. For the 3 that they already had, prior to the 4th one arriving, they did an average of 6X weekly for each 787.
2. So, the newly acquired one (#4) for BOM - LHR could also do at least 6X, and since it is not doing BOM-DEL local, and the 787 tails are swapped at LHR (BOM - LHR and DEL -LHR) so regular maintenance can be done at DEL. IMHO, for this reason, I can't understand 5X vs allotted 7X.
3. The head of Vistara engineering & maintenance, if I understand his tweet correctly, suggests that they don't have enough "maintenance" slots. (Is that how you read it? See the link below). To me, that's a shortcoming by Vistara. Why couldn't they invest more in creating maintenance slots which would allow the 787 to fly longer?

https://twitter.com/SisiraKantDash/stat ... 5223293954

4. Vistara is expected to get #5 787 in June/July and #6 in August/September. They have already indicated that their priority is Europe. So, presumably they would also open up BOM-CDG and BOM-FRA with #5 & #6.

n471wn wrote:

ATDB is reporting that AI has parked two 787-8’s. I thought they were short on long haul aircraft?

They have a fleet of 27 787s. There's nothing unusual if a couple of them are parked for maintenance at any given time.

The brand new A321neos delivered last month to Air India will be fitted with existing A319 seats before being sent on revenue flights:
https://twitter.com/Vinamralongani/status/1646811846803091456?s=20

It's still not confirmed if these aircraft were installed with the original Ural airlines seats during delivery. Wouldn't it have made more sense to retain the original seats since Air India is undergoing transition right now anyway? Why not use the Ural seats to increase services first than to scavenge existing aircraft?

UA has dropped ORD-DEL flight. They are not bookable on the website. They are still flying EWR-DEL. Dont know if it is temporary or not. Right now AI has no nonstop competition on all routes except EWR to DEL and JFK to DEL.

hohd wrote:

UA has dropped ORD-DEL flight. They are not bookable on the website. They are still flying EWR-DEL. Dont know if it is temporary or not. Right now AI has no nonstop competition on all routes except EWR to DEL and JFK to DEL.

It’s super sad fior UA that the closure of Russian airspace has caused all of this. Cut - ORD-DEL, EWR-BOM, SFO-DEL and SFO -BLR (which I think hadn’t launched yet). Also they no longer fly a 77W on EWR-DEL (don’t know the reason). AI is smart to ramp up. This is a moment in time for AI to establish themselves. While not all will take the plunge and use AI, the market is big enough for AI to really capture some good share.

CaliguyNYC wrote:

hohd wrote:

UA has dropped ORD-DEL flight. They are not bookable on the website. They are still flying EWR-DEL. Dont know if it is temporary or not. Right now AI has no nonstop competition on all routes except EWR to DEL and JFK to DEL.

It’s super sad fior UA that the closure of Russian airspace has caused all of this. Cut - ORD-DEL, EWR-BOM, SFO-DEL and SFO -BLR (which I think hadn’t launched yet). Also they no longer fly a 77W on EWR-DEL (don’t know the reason). AI is smart to ramp up. This is a moment in time for AI to establish themselves. While not all will take the plunge and use AI, the market is big enough for AI to really capture some good share.

Yes AI benefits, but I feel UA pulled the plug too soon. UA pulls out even if there is a slightest dip in the revenues or other issues. They were flying ORD-DEL (non stop both directions) until last month, so the Russian air space restriction did not affect this flight as all other sectors required a fuel stop in at least one direction.

India has the 5th largest economy and one of the fastest growing economies and all they have is 1 flight a day, this is actually a reduction from 10 to 20 years ago, where they had 2 flights a day. If UA wanted to, they can also fly EWR-BOM non stop and take a brief fuel stop on the return BOM-EWR either at St. Johns or Iceland.

n471wn wrote:

ATDB is reporting that AI has parked two 787-8’s. I thought they were short on long haul aircraft?

In a fleet of 27 787s, a couple of them are likely to be grounded for maintenance at any given time. Hardly surprising.