Let's please try to get back on the topic of discussing Lufthansa Group news. It's well established that FRA is a major European hub in competition with LHR, CDG, AMS, MAD, and so on. While Germany is in a relatively unique position of not having a major hub in its capital, it doesn't take a historian to understand why this is the case. FRA is a major European financial hub, and MUC is the financial center of the economic powerhouse that is Bavaria. Those discussions have been had time and again on this site, and for those users looking to continue beating that dead horse, it's more appropriately done in a different discussion.

✈️ atcsundevil

Another set of strikes on Monday planned by ver.di covering 4 airports - Berlin, Bremen, Hamburg and Hanover

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ge ... 023-03-11/

Approximately 200 LH/Eurowings services canceled so far in advance at impacted airports.
https://www.eurowings.com/en/informatio ... ation.html

Looks like 7 additional 787s are NTUs

955 - ex Norwegian
971 - ex Norwegian
983 - ex Norwegian
988 - ex Air Europa
992 - ex Air Europa
1011 - ex Norwegian
1028 - ex Air Europa

Any word on what interiors these will get? Also, are these likely to go to Austrian?

zkojq wrote:

Don't forget Spohr saying that the A340-600s would never return.

One week ago I finally boarded one. Travelled from Boston to Munich on D-AIHW. My first A340-600 flight!

kaitak744 wrote:

Looks like 7 additional 787s are NTUs

955 - ex Norwegian
971 - ex Norwegian
983 - ex Norwegian
988 - ex Air Europa
992 - ex Air Europa
1011 - ex Norwegian
1028 - ex Air Europa

Any word on what interiors these will get? Also, are these likely to go to Austrian?

I believe that apart from the five GEnx 787s in the process of delivery, all new LH long-haul planes (787s, A350, 777s) will have the new bespoke allegris seats.

MartijnNL wrote:

zkojq wrote:

Don't forget Spohr saying that the A340-600s would never return.

One week ago I finally boarded one. Travelled from Boston to Munich on D-AIHW. My first A340-600 flight!

Beautiful aircraft hey? So quiet and big. Glad they are still flying around

PM wrote:

kaitak744 wrote:

Looks like 7 additional 787s are NTUs

955 - ex Norwegian
971 - ex Norwegian
983 - ex Norwegian
988 - ex Air Europa
992 - ex Air Europa
1011 - ex Norwegian
1028 - ex Air Europa

Any word on what interiors these will get? Also, are these likely to go to Austrian?

I believe that apart from the five GEnx 787s in the process of delivery, all new LH long-haul planes (787s, A350, 777s) will have the new bespoke allegris seats.

Is there a plan to convert those 5 GE 787s? Or will those end up with another LH group airline?

MartijnNL wrote:

zkojq wrote:

Don't forget Spohr saying that the A340-600s would never return.

One week ago I finally boarded one. Travelled from Boston to Munich on D-AIHW. My first A340-600 flight!

How did you like it? Once you've experienced the superiority of the A340-600, you won't want to settle for anything less.

Hope I can fly on one again in the not too distant future.

kaitak744 wrote:

Is there a plan to convert those 5 GE 787s? Or will those end up with another LH group airline?

There are quite a lot of rumours around. Austrian, as said, is one possibility. But don't forget, Edeweiss is also looking for a replacement for their 5 A340-300... Yes, WK outlined the A350 as most possible winner, but who knows? Or, the 5 ex Hainan Group B787 will switch to WK, as soon as LH receives their own B787 with Allegris.

kaitak744 wrote:

Looks like 7 additional 787s are NTUs

955 - ex Norwegian
971 - ex Norwegian
983 - ex Norwegian
988 - ex Air Europa
992 - ex Air Europa
1011 - ex Norwegian
1028 - ex Air Europa

Any word on what interiors these will get? Also, are these likely to go to Austrian?

No, those are the NTUs that LH bought last year. They will all get the new interior (Allegris is the LH product name, not used at LX or OS)

zkojq wrote:

So the A35K delivery slots are quite near term. Unsurprisingly, it sounds like Spohr doesn't have much confidence in Boeing regarding 777-9X deliveries. Wouldn't be the first.

"Quite near term" means deliveries start in 2026. Still before the 779 IMO

Blotto wrote:

zkojq wrote:

So the A35K delivery slots are quite near term. Unsurprisingly, it sounds like Spohr doesn't have much confidence in Boeing regarding 777-9X deliveries. Wouldn't be the first.

"Quite near term" means deliveries start in 2026. Still before the 779 IMO

I think a majority of airlines who have ordered the 777-9 have also ordered the a350-1000 or already operate it. Proof that both can still co-exist in a fleet and are not necessarily substitutes to one another

It was kind of obvious that LH could join that group too, considering they already operate a sizable number of a350-900s. I think they would have still ordered the a350-1000 even if the 777-9 was never delayed.

With the compensation from delays with the 777X program, LH managed to negotiate better deals with their 787 orders so it's not all bad as it seems.

Blotto wrote:

They will all get the new interior (Allegris is the LH product name, not used at LX or OS)

LX will name the new product "Swiss Senses".

LH Group puts out a policy paper calling ITA takeover a win-win for Germany and Italy.

https://politikbrief.lufthansagroup.com ... march-2023

mercure1 wrote:

LH Group puts out a policy paper calling ITA takeover a win-win for Germany and Italy.

https://politikbrief.lufthansagroup.com ... march-2023

Will ITA have to leave SkyTeam?

mesasurf wrote:

mercure1 wrote:

LH Group puts out a policy paper calling ITA takeover a win-win for Germany and Italy.

https://politikbrief.lufthansagroup.com ... march-2023

Will ITA have to leave SkyTeam?

Definitely!

Can someone please clarify something for me? The LH A388s are scheduled to return for "summer" 2023, is that strictly seasonal summer (June, July, August) or the "summer season" in terms of airlines? Probably a stupid question but I only ask because it seems like the A380s will stay for such a short amount of time.

Another motive is the fact that I'm heading to NY in early October (before the end of the "summer season" ) and I am currently booked JFK-MUC-DUB with an A346 on the transatlantic leg, according to the LH app. I'm guessing that'll be switched to an A380 given the recent news about the A380 schedule out of MUC?

Sorry for the silly question but I'm just confused. Thank you!

thesupersaiyann wrote:

Can someone please clarify something for me? The LH A388s are scheduled to return for "summer" 2023, is that strictly seasonal summer (June, July, August) or the "summer season" in terms of airlines? Probably a stupid question but I only ask because it seems like the A380s will stay for such a short amount of time.

Another motive is the fact that I'm heading to NY in early October (before the end of the "summer season" ) and I am currently booked JFK-MUC-DUB with an A346 on the transatlantic leg, according to the LH app. I'm guessing that'll be switched to an A380 given the recent news about the A380 schedule out of MUC?

Sorry for the silly question but I'm just confused. Thank you!

As far as I know, the first A380 will not come for the start of the "summer schedule" which is in fact in less than two weeks. It is currently in Manila doing checks and should be ready in May or June. The second one is also in preparations (still in FRA?). But as long as the exact schedule is subject to change, they won't be entered into the GDS schedule.
Likely they will be put on MUC-JFK,BOS,DEL first. But in which order is unknown (to me).
And the plan is to fly them beyond the summer months.

But chances are good that you might fly on of them in OCT on your routing.

fraT wrote:

thesupersaiyann wrote:

Can someone please clarify something for me? The LH A388s are scheduled to return for "summer" 2023, is that strictly seasonal summer (June, July, August) or the "summer season" in terms of airlines? Probably a stupid question but I only ask because it seems like the A380s will stay for such a short amount of time.

Another motive is the fact that I'm heading to NY in early October (before the end of the "summer season" ) and I am currently booked JFK-MUC-DUB with an A346 on the transatlantic leg, according to the LH app. I'm guessing that'll be switched to an A380 given the recent news about the A380 schedule out of MUC?

Sorry for the silly question but I'm just confused. Thank you!

As far as I know, the first A380 will not come for the start of the "summer schedule" which is in fact in less than two weeks. It is currently in Manila doing checks and should be ready in May or June. The second one is also in preparations (still in FRA?). But as long as the exact schedule is subject to change, they won't be entered into the GDS schedule.
Likely they will be put on MUC-JFK,BOS,DEL first. But in which order is unknown (to me).
And the plan is to fly them beyond the summer months.

But chances are good that you might fly on of them in OCT on your routing.

First one is back in FRA from Manila, second one is now in Manila. First destination is supposed to be BOS starting early June.

Next strike is Friday 17 March covering the airports of Cologne, Dussledorf, Stuttgart and regional airport at Karlsruhe/Baden-Baden.

https://aviation.direct/in-stuttgart-ko ... streik-auf

davidjohnson6 wrote:

Significant reports across the German press that EVG and Verdi plan a major strike on 27 March. Unions have not confirmed but seems to be an open secret.
Think complete shutdown of airports and trains throughout Germany

Has there been any progress/talks regarding the issues driving the strikes or is that all stalled?

atcsundevil wrote:

davidjohnson6 wrote:

Significant reports across the German press that EVG and Verdi plan a major strike on 27 March. Unions have not confirmed but seems to be an open secret.
Think complete shutdown of airports and trains throughout Germany

Are they still calling these "warning strikes"? They're happening just about every week somewhere in the country, so I don't know if they can really be referred to warning strikes anymore. This still isn't Lufthansa staff striking, correct? If the staffing are for airports and services, do the airlines have any potential claim for compensation? The costs of these strikes is really going to start adding up.

No LH Staff is striking. But those who strike include airport security which basically shuts down the whole airport.

https://www.cityairlines.de

Looks like the plans for "Cityline 2.0" getting more elaborate. The company was founded already back in summer 2022, for summer 2023 they will open for job applications. However, that name may... not have been... the best... idea...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5yW1TGSiOU

Lufthansa is about to launch a new airlines based in Munich to support their European network named City Airlines
Website :
https://www.cityairlines.de/en/home.html

There 's a piece in Flight this week (behind paywall) talking about possible further acquisitions of short- and medium-range freighters. One would have thought this might mean A321 and A333 conversions respectively, as the heading says "no new widebodies". I can't see them going for 767s at this late stage in that frame's production life. Can anyone cast any further light?

DartHerald wrote:

There 's a piece in Flight this week (behind paywall) talking about possible further acquisitions of short- and medium-range freighters. One would have thought this might mean A321 and A333 conversions respectively, as the heading says "no new widebodies". I can't see them going for 767s at this late stage in that frame's production life. Can anyone cast any further light?

They already have (2 I believe) converted A321s so I guess they would get some more of those

columba wrote:

Lufthansa is about to launch a new airlines based in Munich to support their European network named City Airlines
Website :
https://www.cityairlines.de/en/home.html

this was mentioned only 2 posts before...

DartHerald wrote:

There 's a piece in Flight this week (behind paywall) talking about possible further acquisitions of short- and medium-range freighters. One would have thought this might mean A321 and A333 conversions respectively, as the heading says "no new widebodies". I can't see them going for 767s at this late stage in that frame's production life. Can anyone cast any further light?

2 additional converted A321P2F's will join the fleet alongside 3x 777F and 7x 777-8F (ordered last May)

https://investor-relations.lufthansagro ... craft.html

I am wondering if I missed something is there a new wet lease Agreement between CityJet/Air Nostrum and Lufthansa (CityLine)?

SQ22 wrote:

I am wondering if I missed something is there a new wet lease Agreement between CityJet/Air Nostrum and Lufthansa (CityLine)?

Yes, some routes are scheduled with CR9 and CRK in Munich. Haven’t seen something public yet.

DUSZRH wrote:

SQ22 wrote:

Yes, some routes are scheduled with CR9 and CRK in Munich. Haven’t seen something public yet.

Thanks, CRK's are a frequent guest in FRA as well, but operating for IB.

DUSZRH wrote:

SQ22 wrote:

I am wondering if I missed something is there a new wet lease Agreement between CityJet/Air Nostrum and Lufthansa (CityLine)?

Yes, some routes are scheduled with CR9 and CRK in Munich. Haven’t seen something public yet.

Well, Cityjet states it quite frankly on their homepage...

CityJet operates its CRJ900 fleet on behalf of SAS (Scandinavian Airlines) and, from summer 2023, Brussels Airlines and Lufthansa also offers the aircraft in the wet lease and occasionally ad-hoc charter markets.

https://www.cityjet.com/fleet/

Terrier79 wrote:

Well, Cityjet states it quite frankly on their homepage...

CityJet operates its CRJ900 fleet on behalf of SAS (Scandinavian Airlines) and, from summer 2023, Brussels Airlines and Lufthansa also offers the aircraft in the wet lease and occasionally ad-hoc charter markets.

https://www.cityjet.com/fleet/

Thanks I didn't check their site. So things seem to have changed a bit if the CRK's will also being used.

Group reappointed Michael Trestl as chief commercial officer at OS and member of its executive board for a 5-year term.
Was originally to be moved to another assignment within the group.

https://www.noen.at/niederoesterreich/w ... -359418722

DUSZRH wrote:

SQ22 wrote:

I am wondering if I missed something is there a new wet lease Agreement between CityJet/Air Nostrum and Lufthansa (CityLine)?

Yes, some routes are scheduled with CR9 and CRK in Munich. Haven’t seen something public yet.

I have a flight booked GDN-MUC in a few weeks, and it's scheduled as a CityJet CR9

Is Eurowings Discover resuming service to both Victoria Falls (VFA) and Nelspruit-Kruger (MQP) via WDH within the next season?
A few weeks ago I still saw MQP flights bookable on the website, effective 26 March, but now nothing?

grjplanes wrote:

Is Eurowings Discover resuming service to both Victoria Falls (VFA) and Nelspruit-Kruger (MQP) via WDH within the next season?
A few weeks ago I still saw MQP flights bookable on the website, effective 26 March, but now nothing?

https://aviation.direct/en/eurowings-di ... ional-park
Due to a lack of demand, the holiday airline Eurowings Discover is indefinitely suspending the flights to Mpumalanga (“Kruger National Park”) that only began in November of the previous year.

When will STL get additional frequency or upguage?

strangeplanes wrote:

When will STL get additional frequency or upguage?

How is the route performing. Do the loads warrant it?

Magnum9 wrote:

strangeplanes wrote:

When will STL get additional frequency or upguage?

How is the route performing. Do the loads warrant it?

Combined loads both ways for the first 4 months is just over 90%.

Rumors are they expected it to go up by summer but LH Is still having staffing issues which is preventing it from going up in frequency. I’m guessing AUS is in the same boat. They are stuck at 3x a week also.

Seems like pilot's union Vereinigung Cockpit and Lufthansa are going for very hard public negotiations, as the last (private) meeting ended without any real result. Lufthansa demands a new "perspective agreement" (PPV), to fix how many aircraft will be operated by Lufthansa. The last PPV, that was valid from 2017 and was cancelled by Lufthansa in 2021, has confirmed at least 325 aircraft at Lufthansa mainline AOC.

Without a new perspective agreement, all of Lufthansa's pilots will be reverted to the (highly paid) group collective agreement. In this case, Lufthansa is openly threatening to shift more or less all of the feeder flights to the new AOC (Cityairlines) and Lufthansa AOC only operating long haul routes afterwards. 40 A320s could be shifted in one go from LH mainline to Cityairlines.

https://www.aero.de/news-44736/Tariftau ... Runde.html

Seems like Spohr is going all in to limit the aircraft and number of pilots with the highly paid contracts at mainline while trying hard to push pilots' salaries at the other AOCs and probably also shift as many pilots as possible to those companies. Not sure how this could end, but I guess we can expect some new strikes after the peace period ends by end of June.

davidjohnson6 wrote:

grjplanes wrote:

Is Eurowings Discover resuming service to both Victoria Falls (VFA) and Nelspruit-Kruger (MQP) via WDH within the next season?
A few weeks ago I still saw MQP flights bookable on the website, effective 26 March, but now nothing?

https://aviation.direct/en/eurowings-di ... ional-park
Due to a lack of demand, the holiday airline Eurowings Discover is indefinitely suspending the flights to Mpumalanga (“Kruger National Park”) that only began in November of the previous year.

Unfortunately it looks like EW didn't really do their homework here. High Season for Kruger Park is mostly between June and October, can be extended somewhat until first week of January maybe...unlike the coastal areas of South Africa which is more October to April. Very similar higher season than what Victoria Falls is and therefor lots of international itineraries combine VFA and Kruger. Even MQP originating traffic (which is probably very small, but still) would be more during these times. So hopefully they can rather adjust like that. Another drawback is also the lack of 5th freedom on WDH-MQP, while they have it for WDH-VFA (once again small, but something).
If they can do both a tag-on to VFA and MQP from WDH at the same time during season then it could be more beneficial (especially with those combining the two). Then in the winter season rather extend to CPT, DUR or even GRJ .

Yeah I think you are spot on in the assessment, Eurowings treated Kruger like they see Cape Town... However the seasons for the two are completely different.

I personally think a combined Kruger, Durban routing would be a stronger pitch for them, especially over the southern hemisphere winter. It's when Kruger is peak demand, and is peak travel for South Africans to Europe and is the best time to visit tropical Durban. But that would require vision I do not think they have

Per the internal schedule advisory first resumed LH A380 service will be LH424 to BOS effective June 1. Followed by JFK LH410 effective July 4.

mercure1 wrote:

Per the internal schedule advisory first resumed LH A380 service will be LH424 to BOS effective June 1. Followed by JFK LH410 effective July 4.

I think they never served BOS with the A380, so technically they cannot resume it

mercure1 wrote:

Per the internal schedule advisory first resumed LH A380 service will be LH424 to BOS effective June 1. Followed by JFK LH410 effective July 4.

When do these usually come out publicly. Curious if it changes up any other equipment on other routes.

The update goes into LH internal system on March 23, and will be updated worldwide GDS by the weekend.

Planned seating layouts for the 787-9 and First Class A359s are out.

789: J28 W24 Y231 - 287
A359: 3F J38 W24 Y201 - 266

When @Lufthansa
announced its new Allegris cabins, it didn't provide any seat maps.

But, I just got the LOPAs!

The 787-9 Dreamliner will have one large biz cabin, while the A350-900 will have 2 biz cabins with just 2 bathrooms for 38 passengers

787-9

A359 First Class



https://twitter.com/_ZachGriff/status/1 ... 83/photo/3

grjplanes wrote:

Unfortunately it looks like EW didn't really do their homework here. High Season for Kruger Park is mostly between June and October, can be extended somewhat until first week of January maybe...unlike the coastal areas of South Africa which is more October to April. Very similar higher season than what Victoria Falls is and therefor lots of international itineraries combine VFA and Kruger. Even MQP originating traffic (which is probably very small, but still) would be more during these times. So hopefully they can rather adjust like that. Another drawback is also the lack of 5th freedom on WDH-MQP, while they have it for WDH-VFA (once again small, but something).
If they can do both a tag-on to VFA and MQP from WDH at the same time during season then it could be more beneficial (especially with those combining the two). Then in the winter season rather extend to CPT, DUR or even GRJ .

That’s not EW, but 4Y.