Air France announced the full repayment of its remaining €2.5 billion bank loan guarantees by the French state granted during the Covid-19 crisis.

https://www.airfranceklm.com/en/newsroo ... -state-pge

mercure1 wrote:

Air France announced the full repayment of its remaining €2.5 billion bank loan guarantees by the French state granted during the Covid-19 crisis.

https://www.airfranceklm.com/en/newsroo ... -state-pge

Way to go AirFrance! Those were some scary moments in 2020.....

My apologies if this has already been covered, but is it known which a/c, more importantly which routes will see KL's new intercontinental Premium Comfort cabins this summer?

GSPSPOT wrote:

My apologies if this has already been covered, but is it known which a/c, more importantly which routes will see KL's new intercontinental Premium Comfort cabins this summer?

Aeroroutes published a list of routes
https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/220830-k ... %20premium

inkjet7 wrote:

marcelh wrote:

2029 - that’s 10 years after the “all Boeing WB fleet for KLM” announcement.

And Covid.
Worryingly, AF seems to go full throttle at long haul fleet renewal, while KL doesn't. Just a very slow trickle of 787's coming in.

This worries me too. 6 or 7 787-10s are coming in between now and 2025. Not enough to replace the current 5 A333s and 6 A332s, and 787 production slots become more scarce with some recent large orders. OTOH, I can't believe no A330s will be replaced at all, expansion is very hard with reduction of flights allowed out of AMS. So will KLM soldier on with just a handful A330s for another 5 years or so? This sounds not very efficient. Not sure if AF/KL still have 787 options with Boeing, otherwise leasing will be the only possibility to get additional new 787s short term. There could also be some gently used 787s available, that could also be a consideration.

frigatebird wrote:

inkjet7 wrote:

marcelh wrote:

2029 - that’s 10 years after the “all Boeing WB fleet for KLM” announcement.

And Covid.
Worryingly, AF seems to go full throttle at long haul fleet renewal, while KL doesn't. Just a very slow trickle of 787's coming in.

This worries me too. 6 or 7 787-10s are coming in between now and 2025. Not enough to replace the current 5 A333s and 6 A332s, and 787 production slots become more scarce with some recent large orders. OTOH, I can't believe no A330s will be replaced at all, expansion is very hard with reduction of flights allowed out of AMS. So will KLM soldier on with just a handful A330s for another 5 years or so? This sounds not very efficient. Not sure if AF/KL still have 787 options with Boeing, otherwise leasing will be the only possibility to get additional new 787s short term. There could also be some gently used 787s available, that could also be a consideration.

Agree on the surface. Although there are many ways KLM could get additional aircraft. I think this is a problem for many major airlines, so I don't expect the status quo from Boeing, Airbus, and lessors.

Eikie wrote:

FlyingHonu001 wrote:

747classic wrote:

KLM 777-300ER PH-BVO has not been operated since February 27th, see : https://flightaware.com/live/flight/PHB ... /HKJK/EHAM

Is this for regular maintenance or is this the first (pilot) Business Direct Aisle + Premium Comfort Class Modification.

She is inside Hangar 14 yes, probably something technical. From what I can understand from my sources, KL will start the B777 mods only after the entire B787 subfleet is completely done.

The BVO is in hangar 14 for modification.

PH-BVO operated today (16 March) AMS-PBM, so was the modification completed or was it something technical, that kept the aircraft in H14 for almost 3 weeks ?(

747classic wrote:

Eikie wrote:

FlyingHonu001 wrote:

She is inside Hangar 14 yes, probably something technical. From what I can understand from my sources, KL will start the B777 mods only after the entire B787 subfleet is completely done.

The BVO is in hangar 14 for modification.

PH-BVO operated today (16 March) AMS-PBM, so was the modification completed or was it something technical, that kept the aircraft in H14 for almost 3 weeks ?(

BVO is unmodified, (J34 Y374) not sure what the holdup was in the hangar. The first B777 mod is expected in mid-April

- Fifth Premium cabin mod PH-BHO completed, lead time approx. 7 days

Overview KL Premium Comfort Class Mods - B78X - 8 completed

PH-BKA - Completed August 27th 2022, in service
PH-BKC - Completed October 8th 2022, in service
PH-BKD - Completed September 11th 2022, in service
PH-BKF - Completed October 13th 2022, in service
PH-BKG - Completed September 8th 2022, in service
PH-BKH - Completed September 29th 2022, in service
PH-BKL - Completed October 26th 2022, in service
PH-BKK - Completed February 22th 2023, in service

PH-BKI - New aircraft, unmodified, not yet delivered from Boeing
PH-BKM - New aircraft, unmodified, not yet delivered from Boeing

Overview KL Premium Comfort Class Mods - B789 - 8 modifications pending, 5 completed

PH-BHA - Completed February 4th 2023, in service
PH-BHC - Completed February 16th 2023, in service
PH-BHD -
PH-BHE -
PH-BHF -
PH-BHG - Completed March 2nd 2023, in service
PH-BHH -
PH-BHI -
PH-BHL - Completed March 12th 2023, in service
PH-BHM -
PH-BHN -
*PH-BHO - Completed March 19th 2023, in service
PH-BHP -

- PH-BHF moved to hangar area, sixth KL B789 Premium cabin mod underway

Overview KL Premium Comfort Class Mods - B78X - 8 completed

PH-BKA - Completed August 27th 2022, in service
PH-BKC - Completed October 8th 2022, in service
PH-BKD - Completed September 11th 2022, in service
PH-BKF - Completed October 13th 2022, in service
PH-BKG - Completed September 8th 2022, in service
PH-BKH - Completed September 29th 2022, in service
PH-BKL - Completed October 26th 2022, in service
PH-BKK - Completed February 22th 2023, in service

PH-BKI - New aircraft, unmodified, not yet delivered from Boeing
PH-BKM - New aircraft, unmodified, not yet delivered from Boeing

Overview KL Premium Comfort Class Mods - B789 - 7 modifications pending, 5 completed, 1 in progress

PH-BHA - Completed February 4th 2023, in service
PH-BHC - Completed February 16th 2023, in service
PH-BHD -
PH-BHE -
*PH-BHF - Under modification since March 20th 2023
PH-BHG - Completed March 2nd 2023, in service
PH-BHH -
PH-BHI -
PH-BHL - Completed March 12th 2023, in service
PH-BHM -
PH-BHN -
PH-BHO - Completed March 19th 2023, in service
PH-BHP -

FlyingHonu001 wrote:

- PH-BHF moved to hangar area, sixth KL B789 Premium cabin mod underway

Overview KL Premium Comfort Class Mods - B78X - 8 completed

PH-BKA - Completed August 27th 2022, in service
PH-BKC - Completed October 8th 2022, in service
PH-BKD - Completed September 11th 2022, in service
PH-BKF - Completed October 13th 2022, in service
PH-BKG - Completed September 8th 2022, in service
PH-BKH - Completed September 29th 2022, in service
PH-BKL - Completed October 26th 2022, in service
PH-BKK - Completed February 22th 2023, in service

PH-BKI - New aircraft, unmodified, not yet delivered from Boeing
PH-BKM - New aircraft, unmodified, not yet delivered from Boeing

Overview KL Premium Comfort Class Mods - B789 - 7 modifications pending, 5 completed, 1 in progress

PH-BHA - Completed February 4th 2023, in service
PH-BHC - Completed February 16th 2023, in service
PH-BHD -
PH-BHE -
*PH-BHF - Under modification since March 20th 2023
PH-BHG - Completed March 2nd 2023, in service
PH-BHH -
PH-BHI -
PH-BHL - Completed March 12th 2023, in service
PH-BHM -
PH-BHN -
PH-BHO - Completed March 19th 2023, in service
PH-BHP -

At this rate, all 789s should be done before the middle of May.

Regarding the undelivered 78Xs, how soon after delivery do they go in for modifications?

MoKa777 wrote:

At this rate, all 789s should be done before the middle of May.

Regarding the undelivered 78Xs, how soon after delivery do they go in for modifications?

Usually straight away...only if there are no supply chain issues. PH-BKK after delivery this year flew a few days in the unmodified cabin with pax, because they had to wait for the delivery of components.

Due ATC strikes 21/22 March, airline have been asked to reduced schedules by 20 percent at ORY and MRS.

So far Transavia published intended cancellation list
https://www.transavia.com/fr-FR/strike/20-mars/

FlyingHonu001 wrote:

MoKa777 wrote:

At this rate, all 789s should be done before the middle of May.

Regarding the undelivered 78Xs, how soon after delivery do they go in for modifications?

Usually straight away...only if there are no supply chain issues. PH-BKK after delivery this year flew a few days in the unmodified cabin with pax, because they had to wait for the delivery of components.

I know that the 77W fleet will be refit but are the 77E fleet also confirmed to be refit ? They are about 16-20 years old so I was wondering if they plan to extend their life by at least 5 years to make the refit financially viable.

sabby wrote:

FlyingHonu001 wrote:

MoKa777 wrote:

At this rate, all 789s should be done before the middle of May.

Regarding the undelivered 78Xs, how soon after delivery do they go in for modifications?

Usually straight away...only if there are no supply chain issues. PH-BKK after delivery this year flew a few days in the unmodified cabin with pax, because they had to wait for the delivery of components.

I know that the 77W fleet will be refit but are the 77E fleet also confirmed to be refit ? They are about 16-20 years old so I was wondering if they plan to extend their life by at least 5 years to make the refit financially viable.

Yes both the 77W and the 772 fleet are confirmed to be refitted.
77W : C35-W24-Y322
772 : C35-W24-Y229

747classic wrote:

sabby wrote:

FlyingHonu001 wrote:

Usually straight away...only if there are no supply chain issues. PH-BKK after delivery this year flew a few days in the unmodified cabin with pax, because they had to wait for the delivery of components.

I know that the 77W fleet will be refit but are the 77E fleet also confirmed to be refit ? They are about 16-20 years old so I was wondering if they plan to extend their life by at least 5 years to make the refit financially viable.

Yes both the 77W and the 772 fleet are confirmed to be refitted.
77W : C35-W24-Y322
772 : C35-W24-Y229

Thanks. Its interesting that the older 77E fleet are getting refit but the lease of the much newer A333s won't even be renewed. 1 A333 is parked as well since January. Not sure what's happening with that fleet.

sabby wrote:

747classic wrote:

sabby wrote:

I know that the 77W fleet will be refit but are the 77E fleet also confirmed to be refit ? They are about 16-20 years old so I was wondering if they plan to extend their life by at least 5 years to make the refit financially viable.

Yes both the 77W and the 772 fleet are confirmed to be refitted.
77W : C35-W24-Y322
772 : C35-W24-Y229

Thanks. Its interesting that the older 77E fleet are getting refit but the lease of the much newer A333s won't even be renewed. 1 A333 is parked as well since January. Not sure what's happening with that fleet.

Most of the 77E fleet is owned and at this point paid for, and of course the overall 777 fleet is larger and 777 fleet shares pilots with 787s. Completely changes the equation on what is worth keeping around and what is not, it is not just about airframe age.

KLM wants to get rid of the A330 fleet long term. Things like Covid and 787 delays have pushed that a bit further out than originally intended though.

One of the pilots I know told me use of the KL A330's will be extended untill 2029, they are studying the feasability to refit those with Premium Comfort aswell

FlyingHonu001 wrote:

One of the pilots I know told me use of the KL A330's will be extended untill 2029, they are studying the feasability to refit those with Premium Comfort aswell

The -300's will fly until 2029 and will get the premium comfort, the -200's until 2027 and will not get it.

But all subject to change of course.

Eikie wrote:

FlyingHonu001 wrote:

One of the pilots I know told me use of the KL A330's will be extended untill 2029, they are studying the feasability to refit those with Premium Comfort aswell

The -300's will fly until 2029 and will get the premium comfort, the -200's until 2027 and will not get it.

But all subject to change of course.

Nothing is set in stone about that one atm. We might get more details once the B777 mods are in full swing

Eikie wrote:

FlyingHonu001 wrote:

One of the pilots I know told me use of the KL A330's will be extended untill 2029, they are studying the feasability to refit those with Premium Comfort aswell

The -300's will fly until 2029 and will get the premium comfort, the -200's until 2027 and will not get it.

But all subject to change of course.

Has this been confirmed or is this just a rumor? AFAIK, KLM said when publishing their latest figures that the A330 fleet COULD be kept longer than planned, so after the earlier communicated 2025 retirement.

What I find odd, is that between now and 2025 6 or 7 new 787-10s will arrive (it's not totally clear whether the lease of 1 new 787-10 is cancelled or not). That would be quite an expansion for KLM, if no A330s are retired. Especially when AMS has reduce the number of flights from 500000 to 440000 per year. Then, 2 years later, the owned A332s would go, while the leased A333s would be kept 2 years longer. I may have missed something, but it just does not seem very logical to me.

frigatebird wrote:

Eikie wrote:

FlyingHonu001 wrote:

One of the pilots I know told me use of the KL A330's will be extended untill 2029, they are studying the feasability to refit those with Premium Comfort aswell

The -300's will fly until 2029 and will get the premium comfort, the -200's until 2027 and will not get it.

But all subject to change of course.

Has this been confirmed or is this just a rumor? AFAIK, KLM said when publishing their latest figures that the A330 fleet COULD be kept longer than planned, so after the earlier communicated 2025 retirement.

What I find odd, is that between now and 2025 6 or 7 new 787-10s will arrive (it's not totally clear whether the lease of 1 new 787-10 is cancelled or not). That would be quite an expansion for KLM, if no A330s are retired. Especially when AMS has reduce the number of flights from 500000 to 440000 per year. Then, 2 years later, the owned A332s would go, while the leased A333s would be kept 2 years longer. I may have missed something, but it just does not seem very logical to me.

Just to be clear: Eikie was right, A330's untill 2029 = confirmed
The Premium Comfort part is still TBD

FlyingHonu001 wrote:

frigatebird wrote:

Eikie wrote:

The -300's will fly until 2029 and will get the premium comfort, the -200's until 2027 and will not get it.

But all subject to change of course.

Has this been confirmed or is this just a rumor? AFAIK, KLM said when publishing their latest figures that the A330 fleet COULD be kept longer than planned, so after the earlier communicated 2025 retirement.

What I find odd, is that between now and 2025 6 or 7 new 787-10s will arrive (it's not totally clear whether the lease of 1 new 787-10 is cancelled or not). That would be quite an expansion for KLM, if no A330s are retired. Especially when AMS has reduce the number of flights from 500000 to 440000 per year. Then, 2 years later, the owned A332s would go, while the leased A333s would be kept 2 years longer. I may have missed something, but it just does not seem very logical to me.

Just to be clear: Eikie was right, A330's untill 2029 = confirmed
The Premium Comfort part is still TBD

To be more clear, the Airbus division within KLM fully expects/communicates these dates, as well as the planned premium comfort.

But it might change at any time, seeing how volatile the situation is at SPL/KLM.

Overview AF New Business Class Mods - B77W - 6 modifications pending, 3 in progress, 3 completed


F-GSQD -
F-GSQE -
F-GZNH -
*F-GZNI - Under modification since February 27th
F-GZNJ -
F-GZNK - Completed January 20th 2023, in service
*F-GZNP - Under modification since January 29th
F-GZNQ - Completed January 24th 2023, in service
F-GZNR -
F-GZNS - Completed January 24th 2023, in service
*F-GZNT - Under modification since January 24th
F-GZNU -

F-GZNJ is back to service after 2 weeks in HHN, probably something technical?

KL commenced S23 flight schedule last sunday

...
From the start of the summer schedule on Sunday, 26 March 2023, the KLM route network will comprise 165 destinations – 96 European and 69 intercontinental. The airline is expanding its Asian network, doubling the number of KLM flights to Asia compared with 2022. KLM's new Premium Comfort class will be increasingly available on intercontinental flights.
...

https://news.klm.com/klm-royal-dutch-ai ... dule-2023/

Sixth KL B789 PH-BHF Premium Comfort cabin mod completed, lead time approx. 7 days

Overview KL Premium Comfort Class Mods - B78X - 8 completed

PH-BKA - Completed August 27th 2022, in service
PH-BKC - Completed October 8th 2022, in service
PH-BKD - Completed September 11th 2022, in service
PH-BKF - Completed October 13th 2022, in service
PH-BKG - Completed September 8th 2022, in service
PH-BKH - Completed September 29th 2022, in service
PH-BKL - Completed October 26th 2022, in service
PH-BKK - Completed February 22th 2023, in service

PH-BKI - New aircraft, unmodified, not yet delivered from Boeing
PH-BKM - New aircraft, unmodified, not yet delivered from Boeing

Overview KL Premium Comfort Class Mods - B789 - 7 modifications pending, 6 completed

PH-BHA - Completed February 4th 2023, in service
PH-BHC - Completed February 16th 2023, in service
PH-BHD -
PH-BHE -
*PH-BHF - Completed March 27th 2023, in service
PH-BHG - Completed March 2nd 2023, in service
PH-BHH -
PH-BHI -
PH-BHL - Completed March 12th 2023, in service
PH-BHM -
PH-BHN -
PH-BHO - Completed March 19th 2023, in service
PH-BHP -

Is KLM going to resume service to CTU, HGH, and XMN? It's not mentioned in the schedule. I wouldn't be suprised if these secondary routes to China get cut, better to focus on routes to Asia with higher demand. Additionally, PEK and PVG have always been stronger markets compared to the smaller secondary cities in China.

Is the new business class only on these aircraft? These are ones without La Premiere First I take it?

So on that basis it’s the 777-300ER not the 777-300 as per AF website as they have two different types? Thanks

rodri95 wrote:

Overview AF New Business Class Mods - B77W - 6 modifications pending, 3 in progress, 3 completed


F-GSQD -
F-GSQE -
F-GZNH -
*F-GZNI - Under modification since February 27th
F-GZNJ -
F-GZNK - Completed January 20th 2023, in service
*F-GZNP - Under modification since January 29th
F-GZNQ - Completed January 24th 2023, in service
F-GZNR -
F-GZNS - Completed January 24th 2023, in service
*F-GZNT - Under modification since January 24th
F-GZNU -

F-GZNJ is back to service after 2 weeks in HHN, probably something technical?

FCAA321 wrote:

Is the new business class only on these aircraft? These are ones without La Premiere First I take it?

So on that basis it’s the 777-300ER not the 777-300 as per AF website as they have two different types? Thanks

rodri95 wrote:

Overview AF New Business Class Mods - B77W - 6 modifications pending, 3 in progress, 3 completed


F-GSQD -
F-GSQE -
F-GZNH -
*F-GZNI - Under modification since February 27th
F-GZNJ -
F-GZNK - Completed January 20th 2023, in service
*F-GZNP - Under modification since January 29th
F-GZNQ - Completed January 24th 2023, in service
F-GZNR -
F-GZNS - Completed January 24th 2023, in service
*F-GZNT - Under modification since January 24th
F-GZNU -

F-GZNJ is back to service after 2 weeks in HHN, probably something technical?

Yes these are the ones progressively getting the new business class, and thus have no La Premiere. AF has no 777-300, their website is just very inconsistent.

¿Some news about AF A320ceo replacement?

3D101CA wrote:

Is KLM going to resume service to CTU, HGH, and XMN? It's not mentioned in the schedule. I wouldn't be suprised if these secondary routes to China get cut, better to focus on routes to Asia with higher demand. Additionally, PEK and PVG have always been stronger markets compared to the smaller secondary cities in China.

I think KL is a bit cautious about reinstating their China routes atm. They may want to keep ICN as a hub for that region too i suppose. MU and CZ have also returned back to AMS with significant connectivity options

PH-BHP moved to hangar area, seventh KL B789 Premium Comfort cabin mod underway

Overview KL Premium Comfort Class Mods - B78X - 8 completed, 2 pending

PH-BKA - Completed August 27th 2022, in service
PH-BKC - Completed October 8th 2022, in service
PH-BKD - Completed September 11th 2022, in service
PH-BKF - Completed October 13th 2022, in service
PH-BKG - Completed September 8th 2022, in service
PH-BKH - Completed September 29th 2022, in service
PH-BKL - Completed October 26th 2022, in service
PH-BKK - Completed February 22th 2023, in service

PH-BKI - New aircraft, unmodified, not yet delivered from Boeing
PH-BKM - New aircraft, unmodified, not yet delivered from Boeing

Overview KL Premium Comfort Class Mods - B789 - 6 modifications pending, 6 completed, 1 in progress

PH-BHA - Completed February 4th 2023, in service
PH-BHC - Completed February 16th 2023, in service
PH-BHD -
PH-BHE -
PH-BHF - Completed March 27th 2023, in service
PH-BHG - Completed March 2nd 2023, in service
PH-BHH -
PH-BHI -
PH-BHL - Completed March 12th 2023, in service
PH-BHM -
PH-BHN -
PH-BHO - Completed March 19th 2023, in service
*PH-BHP - Under modification since March 28th 2023

Just noticed KL636 - LAS/AMS. That's gotta be new, isn't it? Don't recall KL having scheduled service to LAS in recent years.

FlyingHonu001 wrote:

3D101CA wrote:

Is KLM going to resume service to CTU, HGH, and XMN? It's not mentioned in the schedule. I wouldn't be suprised if these secondary routes to China get cut, better to focus on routes to Asia with higher demand. Additionally, PEK and PVG have always been stronger markets compared to the smaller secondary cities in China.

I think KL is a bit cautious about reinstating their China routes atm. They may want to keep ICN as a hub for that region too i suppose. MU and CZ have also returned back to AMS with significant connectivity options

I heard from cabin crew that the ICN hub model is ending in April. Now KLM connects Tokyo and Shanghai via ICN and has crews temporarily based at ICN for a while to operate the ICN-NRT and ICN-PVG sectors and then return to AMS.

According to the crew I spoke on a recent ICN-AMS flight, this will be ending as PVG and NRT will progressively return to only direct service to/from AMS.

And that's good, because NRT-ICN-AMS was a long, long journey, with a total of almost 21 hours of travel time.

Cheers!

LifelinerOne wrote:

FlyingHonu001 wrote:

3D101CA wrote:

Is KLM going to resume service to CTU, HGH, and XMN? It's not mentioned in the schedule. I wouldn't be suprised if these secondary routes to China get cut, better to focus on routes to Asia with higher demand. Additionally, PEK and PVG have always been stronger markets compared to the smaller secondary cities in China.

I think KL is a bit cautious about reinstating their China routes atm. They may want to keep ICN as a hub for that region too i suppose. MU and CZ have also returned back to AMS with significant connectivity options

I heard from cabin crew that the ICN hub model is ending in April. Now KLM connects Tokyo and Shanghai via ICN and has crews temporarily based at ICN for a while to operate the ICN-NRT and ICN-PVG sectors and then return to AMS.

According to the crew I spoke on a recent ICN-AMS flight, this will be ending as PVG and NRT will progressively return to only direct service to/from AMS.

And that's good, because NRT-ICN-AMS was a long, long journey, with a total of almost 21 hours of travel time.

Cheers!

NRT was indeed thrue ICN and is still 2 or three times a week. NRT is served non stop twice a week.

ACDC8 wrote:

Just noticed KL636 - LAS/AMS. That's gotta be new, isn't it? Don't recall KL having scheduled service to LAS in recent years.

I believe KLM started the route during summer 2019. I think they didn't operate the schedule during the height of the pandemic.

Flanker7 wrote:

LifelinerOne wrote:

FlyingHonu001 wrote:

I think KL is a bit cautious about reinstating their China routes atm. They may want to keep ICN as a hub for that region too i suppose. MU and CZ have also returned back to AMS with significant connectivity options

I heard from cabin crew that the ICN hub model is ending in April. Now KLM connects Tokyo and Shanghai via ICN and has crews temporarily based at ICN for a while to operate the ICN-NRT and ICN-PVG sectors and then return to AMS.

According to the crew I spoke on a recent ICN-AMS flight, this will be ending as PVG and NRT will progressively return to only direct service to/from AMS.

And that's good, because NRT-ICN-AMS was a long, long journey, with a total of almost 21 hours of travel time.

Cheers!

NRT was indeed thrue ICN and is still 2 or three times a week. NRT is served non stop twice a week.

So they stopped flying westwards out of AMS over Canada/Alaska and the Pacific to reach NRT?

FlyingHonu001 wrote:

Flanker7 wrote:

LifelinerOne wrote:

I heard from cabin crew that the ICN hub model is ending in April. Now KLM connects Tokyo and Shanghai via ICN and has crews temporarily based at ICN for a while to operate the ICN-NRT and ICN-PVG sectors and then return to AMS.

According to the crew I spoke on a recent ICN-AMS flight, this will be ending as PVG and NRT will progressively return to only direct service to/from AMS.

And that's good, because NRT-ICN-AMS was a long, long journey, with a total of almost 21 hours of travel time.

Cheers!

NRT was indeed thrue ICN and is still 2 or three times a week. NRT is served non stop twice a week.

So they stopped flying westwards over Canada/Alaska and the Pacific to reach NRT?

They fly west to NRT and the polar route to Ams

Flanker7 wrote:

FlyingHonu001 wrote:

Flanker7 wrote:

NRT was indeed thrue ICN and is still 2 or three times a week. NRT is served non stop twice a week.

So they stopped flying westwards over Canada/Alaska and the Pacific to reach NRT?

They fly west to NRT and the polar route to Ams

Did you mean EAST ? https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 3#2fabcdb6

My bad...I was under the impression they used the polar route for both ways. Its only on the homebound it seems

sabby wrote:

Flanker7 wrote:

FlyingHonu001 wrote:

So they stopped flying westwards over Canada/Alaska and the Pacific to reach NRT?

They fly west to NRT and the polar route to Ams

Did you mean EAST ? https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 3#2fabcdb6

My bad, yes east to NRT

ACDC8 wrote:

Just noticed KL636 - LAS/AMS. That's gotta be new, isn't it? Don't recall KL having scheduled service to LAS in recent years.

AMS-LAS was announced in September 2018, and launched on June 6th, 2019 with 3x weekly B789 - 294 seats.
In summer 2023 the route has grown to 5x weekly with the larger B781 - 344 seats.

- AMS 12:35 - LAS 14:10 10H35M KL635 781 Tue, Thu, Fri, Sat, Sun
- LAS 16:10 - AMS 11:05 9H55M KL636 781 Tue, Thu, Fri, Sat, Sun

https://news.klm.com/klm-bets-on-las-vegas/

factsonly wrote:

ACDC8 wrote:

Just noticed KL636 - LAS/AMS. That's gotta be new, isn't it? Don't recall KL having scheduled service to LAS in recent years.

AMS-LAS was announced in September 2018, and launched on June 6th, 2019 with 3x weekly B789 - 294 seats.
In summer 2023 the route has grown to 5x weekly with the larger B781 - 344 seats.

- AMS 12:35 - LAS 14:10 10H35M KL635 781 Tue, Thu, Fri, Sat, Sun
- LAS 16:10 - AMS 11:05 9H55M KL636 781 Tue, Thu, Fri, Sat, Sun

https://news.klm.com/klm-bets-on-las-vegas/

Small correction (forgive the nitpicking ): KL's B781 now has 318 seats total with the addition of Premium Comfort and the removal of some regular Y seats

Overview AF New Business Class Mods - B77W - 5 modifications pending, 3 in progress, 4 completed

F-GSQD -
F-GSQE -
F-GZNH -
*F-GZNI - Under modification since February 27th
F-GZNJ -
F-GZNK - Completed January 20th 2023, in service
*F-GZNP - Under modification since January 29th
F-GZNQ - Completed January 24th 2023, in service
F-GZNR -
F-GZNS - Completed January 24th 2023, in service
F-GZNT - Completed March 31st 2023, in service
*F-GZNU - Under modification since April 1st

So basically the ones with First onboard are not getting refurbed with the new business class seat? Surely you’d think they do that aircraft too?

FromCDGtoSYD wrote:

FCAA321 wrote:

Is the new business class only on these aircraft? These are ones without La Premiere First I take it?

So on that basis it’s the 777-300ER not the 777-300 as per AF website as they have two different types? Thanks

rodri95 wrote:

Overview AF New Business Class Mods - B77W - 6 modifications pending, 3 in progress, 3 completed


F-GSQD -
F-GSQE -
F-GZNH -
*F-GZNI - Under modification since February 27th
F-GZNJ -
F-GZNK - Completed January 20th 2023, in service
*F-GZNP - Under modification since January 29th
F-GZNQ - Completed January 24th 2023, in service
F-GZNR -
F-GZNS - Completed January 24th 2023, in service
*F-GZNT - Under modification since January 24th
F-GZNU -

F-GZNJ is back to service after 2 weeks in HHN, probably something technical?

Yes these are the ones progressively getting the new business class, and thus have no La Premiere. AF has no 777-300, their website is just very inconsistent.

No the new configuration only applies to the 12 B77W which were still with the old business class (2-3-2 abreast - C42-W24-Y315 ). Air France has also announced a few months back a new first class to be introduced in late 2023 (https://thepointsguy.com/news/air-franc ... s-details/)

FCAA321 wrote:

So basically the ones with First onboard are not getting refurbed with the new business class seat? Surely you’d think they do that aircraft too?

The current 777-300ER refits are supposed to happen until Autumn.

Theres been info circulating in the French community:

-The next 18 A350 will be delivered with the new seat with doors (from May 2023 onwards).

-The remaining 777-200 fleet is set to enter maintenance and be retrofitted with the new seat with doors from October-ish 2023 to May-ish 2024. It’s unclear how many 777-200 will be retrofitted as Ben Smith previously announced 15 would be kept if capacity was required but info might have changed since depending on the airline’s needs.

Now, this part is my speculation:

Depending on how true all this is, the last announced timeline for the new La Premiere seat was April 2024. It might be that the four class 777-300ER fleet will also be retrofitted and will start getting new seats from April next year. What we do know is that the current seat was first installed in 2014 thus making it almost 10 years old, these birds were retrofitted on the cheap due to AFs poor financials at the time so they don’t even have LED mood lighting for example (that horrible hospital yellow lighting is terrible).

We also know AF hasn’t placed any order for the A350-1000 or 777X yet, but they’ve clearly been playing the waiting game. I’m gonna go ahead and speculate that since BA and LH have ordered the 777X AF will follow suite, and order is probably in the works. But an order right now would mean first delivery in 2028 at the earliest, maybe even later. By then older birds in the 777-300ER fleet would be almost 25 years old and due for retirement. A retrofit in 2024 would definitely carry them through until next gen aircraft deliveries.

Cool to see the 772 still around at so many big carriers and continue getting refits. Wasn't the original plan to retire the fleet in a couple of years?

ikolkyo wrote:

Cool to see the 772 still around at so many big carriers and continue getting refits. Wasn't the original plan to retire the fleet in a couple of years?

I’m just as confused as you are. During an investor call late last year Ben Smith said 15 777-200 and all the A330-200 fleets are fully owned (going off of memory here) and they will be used as swing capacity if demand requires.

This new development basically indicates the 777-200 will stick around for a few more years.

FromCDGtoSYD wrote:

ikolkyo wrote:

Cool to see the 772 still around at so many big carriers and continue getting refits. Wasn't the original plan to retire the fleet in a couple of years?

I’m just as confused as you are. During an investor call late last year Ben Smith said 15 777-200 and all the A330-200 fleets are fully owned (going off of memory here) and they will be used as swing capacity if demand requires.

This new development basically indicates the 777-200 will stick around for a few more years.

The B772’s are between 16 and 20 years old, so have plenty of life in them yet. Many major airlines are getting at least 25 years out of their aircraft.