Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion - 2023

janders · Sat Dec 31, 2022 8:35 pm

Welcome to the Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion thread - 2023 edition.

Please continue to post your news and discussions below.

Link to the locked 2022 edition:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1468649

flyingisthebest · Sun Jan 01, 2023 11:54 pm

Virgin Atlantic to join skyteam.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidnikel ... -2023/amp/

questions · Mon Jan 02, 2023 12:08 am

flyingisthebest wrote:
Virgin Atlantic to join skyteam.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidnikel ... -2023/amp/

Does this really benefit UK based flyers who prefer VS over BA more than anyone else?

mercure1 · Wed Jan 04, 2023 11:42 pm

The airline will launch "several new routes as a result of the decision to join SkyTeam and to connect with airlines in the alliance,” according to Virgin Atlantic CEO Shai Weiss.

So lets look at the more distant members

Aerolíneas Argentinas
Aeroméxico
China Airlines
China Eastern Airlines
Garuda Indonesia
Kenya Airways
Korean Air
Saudia
Vietnam Airlines
XiamenAir

Will VS venture back to Asia(such as greater China or Korea), look to Latin America (EZE or MEX) or maybe something a little closer like Saudi Arabia or Kenya?

jbs2886 · Wed Jan 04, 2023 11:54 pm

mercure1 wrote:
The airline will launch "several new routes as a result of the decision to join SkyTeam and to connect with airlines in the alliance,” according to Virgin Atlantic CEO Shai Weiss.

So lets look at the more distant members

Aerolíneas Argentinas
Aeroméxico
China Airlines
China Eastern Airlines
Garuda Indonesia
Kenya Airways
Korean Air
Saudia
Vietnam Airlines
XiamenAir

Will VS venture back to Asia(such as greater China or Korea), look to Latin America (EZE or MEX) or maybe something a little closer like Saudi Arabia or Kenya?

I think we will see launches to hubs of airlines with stronger connections to DL, in particular ICN and MEX.

sand26391 · Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:51 am

mercure1 wrote:
The airline will launch "several new routes as a result of the decision to join SkyTeam and to connect with airlines in the alliance,” according to Virgin Atlantic CEO Shai Weiss.

Any source to where he says this?? I am not able to find any.

PB26 · Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:53 am

mercure1 wrote:
The airline will launch "several new routes as a result of the decision to join SkyTeam and to connect with airlines in the alliance,” according to Virgin Atlantic CEO Shai Weiss.

Will VS venture back to Asia(such as greater China or Korea), look to Latin America (EZE or MEX) or maybe something a little closer like Saudi Arabia or Kenya?

Before the pandemic, VS would launch LHR-GRU daily with B789.

Let's see what happen, if VS will return the plans or sign code-share with LATAM.

Obzerva · Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:06 am

sand26391 wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
The airline will launch "several new routes as a result of the decision to join SkyTeam and to connect with airlines in the alliance,” according to Virgin Atlantic CEO Shai Weiss.

Any source to where he says this?? I am not able to find any.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ns-skyteam

Bentheswim11 · Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:10 am

mercure1 wrote:
The airline will launch "several new routes as a result of the decision to join SkyTeam and to connect with airlines in the alliance,” according to Virgin Atlantic CEO Shai Weiss.

So lets look at the more distant members

Aerolíneas Argentinas
Aeroméxico
China Airlines
China Eastern Airlines
Garuda Indonesia
Kenya Airways
Korean Air
Saudia
Vietnam Airlines
XiamenAir

Will VS venture back to Asia(such as greater China or Korea), look to Latin America (EZE or MEX) or maybe something a little closer like Saudi Arabia or Kenya?

Due to the lack of certaincy on China, I’ll be excluding China from this list but these are my predictions for adds by 2025:
LHR-GRU (LATAM)
LHR-ICN (Korean)
LHR-MEX (AeroMexico)
LHR-MSP (Delta)
LHR-SLC (Delta)
LHR-RDU (Delta)

TropicalSky · Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:23 pm

VIR recently increased Nas to 4x per week Tue,Wed,Sat & Sun.... was previously just 2 days Tues & Sat..... seems like they're making some inroads on BAW

Rampvan · Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:35 pm

With the 339s now coming on line what's the plans for the 330s, will they keep them for route expansion or will they start being returned of lease

TC957 · Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:34 pm

I have read that the 333's will gradually go as leases expire. I forsee VS launching JED, as Jeddah will be central to Saudi's 2030 vision and ambitions.

bluefltspecial · Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:32 pm

TC957 wrote:
I have read that the 333's will gradually go as leases expire. I forsee VS launching JED, as Jeddah will be central to Saudi's 2030 vision and ambitions.

If memory serves 2 of the 12 are recently leased. All of the VS 330 fleet is only about 10-12 years old, so they have plenty of life left in them.

jbs2886 · Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:36 pm

bluefltspecial wrote:
TC957 wrote:
I have read that the 333's will gradually go as leases expire. I forsee VS launching JED, as Jeddah will be central to Saudi's 2030 vision and ambitions.

If memory serves 2 of the 12 are recently leased. All of the VS 330 fleet is only about 10-12 years old, so they have plenty of life left in them.

There are only 10 A333s, not 12, and they are all from 2011-12. You must be confusing the 2 with the A339s.

bluefltspecial · Sat Jan 07, 2023 3:02 am

jbs2886 wrote:
bluefltspecial wrote:
TC957 wrote:
I have read that the 333's will gradually go as leases expire. I forsee VS launching JED, as Jeddah will be central to Saudi's 2030 vision and ambitions.

If memory serves 2 of the 12 are recently leased. All of the VS 330 fleet is only about 10-12 years old, so they have plenty of life left in them.

There are only 10 A333s, not 12, and they are all from 2011-12. You must be confusing the 2 with the A339s.

Correct, I was referring to the A330 fleet, that includes -300s and -900s. The -900s were delivered in OCT/NOV'22

jbs2886 · Sat Jan 07, 2023 3:11 am

bluefltspecial wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
bluefltspecial wrote:

If memory serves 2 of the 12 are recently leased. All of the VS 330 fleet is only about 10-12 years old, so they have plenty of life left in them.

There are only 10 A333s, not 12, and they are all from 2011-12. You must be confusing the 2 with the A339s.

Correct, I was referring to the A330 fleet, that includes -300s and -900s. The -900s were delivered in OCT/NOV'22

The question was what is happening to the A333s. You quoted about A333s, not A330s generally. There’s no dispute the A339s are staying, there are about 10 more on order.

behramjee · Sat Jan 07, 2023 8:30 am

Question concerning VS Nigeria ops.

Currently they fly daily to LOS using an A351 and it has always historically been a good route for them as well as for BA.

BA too flies daily to ABV generating high yields across all cabins. I was wondering if the Nigeria-UK bilateral allows for a second UK carrier to fly into ABV or not since it would also do very well for VS.

Thanks !

rutankrd · Sat Jan 07, 2023 3:40 pm

behramjee wrote:
Question concerning VS Nigeria ops.

Currently they fly daily to LOS using an A351 and it has always historically been a good route for them as well as for BA.

BA too flies daily to ABV generating high yields across all cabins. I was wondering if the Nigeria-UK bilateral allows for a second UK carrier to fly into ABV or not since it would also do very well for VS.

Thanks !

Extract from Nigerian copy of the bi-lateral agreement

Under the bilateral agreement
between United Kingdom and Nigeria, each of the two countries have 21
frequencies for its airlines. What this means is that British airlines
operate into Nigeria 21 times, while Nigerian airlines would also operate into
Britain 21 times.

Right now the UK allowances are maxed out ,however Nigerian carriers are using literally zero of their allocation !

Largely because their carriers can’t meet basic financial or indeed safety requirements
* As we say couldn’t organise a bun fight in a bakery

ZuluTime · Sat Jan 07, 2023 5:09 pm

Yes - UK carriers are using all 21 of the available frequencies. BA increased Lagos many years ago to 2 x daily under a royalties agreement with Nigeria Airways but that didn't last too long! BA with 7 x LOS and 7 x ABV and VS with 7 x LOS uses the UK allocation.

I'd doubt expansion in Nigeria is high on the list. Although the services are historically profitable, the revenue repatriation issues out of Nigeria (exactly the same as Emirates and other carriers have) means that it's high risk.

skipness1E · Sat Jan 07, 2023 7:39 pm

bluefltspecial wrote:
TC957 wrote:
I have read that the 333's will gradually go as leases expire. I forsee VS launching JED, as Jeddah will be central to Saudi's 2030 vision and ambitions.

If memory serves 2 of the 12 are recently leased. All of the VS 330 fleet is only about 10-12 years old, so they have plenty of life left in them.

The A330-300s were on 10 year leases, *some* of which have been extended, TBC for a number sadly.

Rajahdhani · Sat Jan 07, 2023 8:03 pm

mercure1 wrote:
Aerolíneas Argentinas

Is there that much capacity between Argentina and the U.K.?
I ask, within the context of LATAM moving towards Skyteam (and thus, hubs between the U.K. and EZE), and as a stronger partner (both VS and LA are aligned to DL, in a way that AR Is not).
To add, VS's limited ability to connect passengers beyond LHR (such as favoring flows to Spain and Italy), would preempt codesharing and cross flows of passengers - and so, AR (with a P.O.S. advantage) would find more attractive partners in Italy (ITA) and braving it alone to Spain (as AirEuropa merges with IB, and AR potentially looses a SkyTeam member in Spain).

mercure1 wrote:
Aeroméxico

There is potential here, as more than MEX might make sense. That said, those yields would highly favor the Mexican P.O.S. and/or as AM has no other hubs, there is not significant yield concentration for which VS can call upon. Most of AM's long-haul services head to Spain, and sadly, VS does/can not offer as much in the way of connecting those flows.

mercure1 wrote:
China Airlines

There is decent potential here, from a market perspective. Growing business ties between the U.K. and the D.R.O.C. (especially in the wake of Brexit, and with market rebound post Covid, as well as Taiwan's place in high tech manufacturing) could provide fertile ground to work decent cargo yields and/or lessen the case for passenger yields thus providing a decent solution. With competitor BA not having an alliance partner within the D.R.O.C. - VS could see a decent advantage to work with here. That said, all of this is predicated on the delicate balance of the political/security/stability issues between the P.R.O.C. and the island nation.

mercure1 wrote:
China Eastern Airlines

There are significant disadvantage here in that VS would be unable to best MU in cost advantages, traffic flows, the Chinese P.O.S., as well as the advantage of Russian Overflight Rights. Growing business partnerships aside, the effects of Covid restrictions have had effects on the P.R.O.C's economy and further, will likely yield some significant changes in the short/medium term. As 'China' matures from manufacturing towards soft services, MU can better capitalize on serving those passengers (and/or adding to their yields by adding connecting passengers). I can see VS perhaps taking on flight to key MU hubs (and/or when slots are available) however this would require stronger demand from the U.K. side and with the current economic situation - VS would need to work on multiple rising tides for these to work.

mercure1 wrote:
Garuda Indonesia

What business yields would either carrier find here? While there are popular destinations for tourism, the business opportunities are not equally distributed to the same locations. For the medium term, we will see that the business capital at Jakarta enters a stage of 'shift' - as the political capital moves to Nusantara. It may well take a generation for that shift (of the businesses moving to Nusantara) for those yeilds to concentrate there. Bali, while beautiful and bountiful, is not so for the profile of VS who would be facing aircraft scarcity, and product/yield management issues with such a route. As is, if VS were capable of working with groups for the purpose of tourism travel, there are many other, closer locations for VS to offer that would provide better aircraft/crew utilization and at lower costs.

mercure1 wrote:
Kenya Airways

Potentially, and perhaps to be able to better capture demand to "Africa", however with Kenya Airways's capacity in East Africa, the major demand points remaining would be South Africa (where there is no partner and now, no local competitor - but strong demand) and Nigeria (as it expands in the role as Africa's largest economy). Essentially, having a partner in the East put lesser pressure to perform there. With limited resources, South African expansion should be considered, and Nigeria provides decent aircraft utilization (as well as decent demand, growing business ties, and healthy cargo capabilities) would likely favor those routes over other African capacity.

mercure1 wrote:
Korean Air

Fair, especially as a JV partner in future and to assist with better connectivity to China, Japan and Northern Asia. That said, how would they plan on overcoming the Russian Overflight issue? Historically, the CCCP (and the inheritor Russia) only favored one carrier per nation, key overflight rights (and that came into play for most nations with more than one carrier). BA/VS were a notable exception, but even that exception was sparingly applied. I don't know that even when/if restrictions are eased, if VS would have been granted those rights. So, here's to hoping for a yes (and a peaceful resolution) and soon.

mercure1 wrote:
Saudia

Likely, however - only when/if VS can work on better terms with Saudia regarding cost/code sharing and guarantees of human rights. Apart from business and/or religiously based travel - the business case would need to be improved for VS to make this work. In similar vein to Delta, I can see them limiting their partnership in order to protect passengers and staff.

mercure1 wrote:
Vietnam Airlines

While a great move, there is significant advantages to VN. As VN is competitively being matched by strong domestic competition, VS/VN would need to compete against other carriers for the Vietnamese P.O.S., and sadly their competition is rather well entrenched. The market may well do well in future, however VN would (apart from their P.O.S. advantage and/or the ability to capture connecting traffic, is unlikely to fail due to their government owners).

mercure1 wrote:
XiamenAir

This is not a bad idea, as VS would have an 'upper hand' here. Xiamen could be adaptive and is less likely to challenge/compete to/with VS on home markets. While MU is a larger carrier, and much better positioned and entrenched, Xiamen does not serve the U.K. VS's choices of destinations to the P.R.O.C, would not necessarily be hubs to/of XiamenAir, and so might be able to codeshare with MU, but better partner with Xiamen (as they are not as much of a competitive force).

NYCVIE · Sun Jan 08, 2023 4:50 am

What went wrong with VS' attempt at LHR-ACC? It seems as though, like Nigeria, that route is a gold mine for BA.

sand26391 · Sun Jan 08, 2023 6:54 am

There's some rumour about Virgin Atlantic to add an Indian destination (?) in 2023.

rrapynot · Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:41 am

Bentheswim11 wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
The airline will launch "several new routes as a result of the decision to join SkyTeam and to connect with airlines in the alliance,” according to Virgin Atlantic CEO Shai Weiss.

So lets look at the more distant members

Aerolíneas Argentinas
Aeroméxico
China Airlines
China Eastern Airlines
Garuda Indonesia
Kenya Airways
Korean Air
Saudia
Vietnam Airlines
XiamenAir

Will VS venture back to Asia(such as greater China or Korea), look to Latin America (EZE or MEX) or maybe something a little closer like Saudi Arabia or Kenya?

Due to the lack of certaincy on China, I’ll be excluding China from this list but these are my predictions for adds by 2025:
LHR-GRU (LATAM)
LHR-ICN (Korean)
LHR-MEX (AeroMexico)
LHR-MSP (Delta)
LHR-SLC (Delta)
LHR-RDU (Delta)

Every one of those routes is already flown except RDU. RDU is already flown by American. Every one of delta’s US destinations from RDU can be flown nonstop from LHR already.

mandyhaslott · Sun Jan 08, 2023 11:38 am

sand26391 wrote:
There's some rumour about Virgin Atlantic to add an Indian destination (?) in 2023.

Source?

sand26391 · Sun Jan 08, 2023 12:19 pm

^^ VS ground staff

behramjee · Sun Jan 08, 2023 2:06 pm

sand26391 wrote:
There's some rumour about Virgin Atlantic to add an Indian destination (?) in 2023.

They used to fly it years ago with an A343 and lost a lot of $$$ as oil prices were high at that time plus they only operated quad jets at the time.

BA has benefited greatly at ACC having a monopoly and generating very high premium cabin loads.

Yes in the current era, the market can indeed sustain a second London flight operated by an A330/B787 by VS which would also feed its USA network.

concordeforever · Sun Jan 08, 2023 2:16 pm

Virgin were advertising flights to Maldives on the radio in the UK today, starting from October 2023...

PA12 · Sun Jan 08, 2023 2:20 pm

PB26 wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
The airline will launch "several new routes as a result of the decision to join SkyTeam and to connect with airlines in the alliance,” according to Virgin Atlantic CEO Shai Weiss.

Will VS venture back to Asia(such as greater China or Korea), look to Latin America (EZE or MEX) or maybe something a little closer like Saudi Arabia or Kenya?

Before the pandemic, VS would launch LHR-GRU daily with B789.

Let's see what happen, if VS will return the plans or sign code-share with LATAM.

Before Covid, Norwegian was flying EZE LGW in additino to BA’s EZE LHR. I have friends that have used Norwegian and said the flights were pretty full.

rutankrd · Sun Jan 08, 2023 2:40 pm

behramjee wrote:
sand26391 wrote:
There's some rumour about Virgin Atlantic to add an Indian destination (?) in 2023.

They used to fly it years ago with an A343 and lost a lot of $$$ as oil prices were high at that time plus they only operated quad jets at the time.

BA has benefited greatly at ACC having a monopoly and generating very high premium cabin loads.

Yes in the current era, the market can indeed sustain a second London flight operated by an A330/B787 by VS which would also feed its USA network.

Many UK - West African routes were withdrawn as a result of the Ebola virus pandemic and have yet to be restored to this day - Both BA and VS have imho used it as a cover for permanent culls of what were marginal routes at best .

I don’t have access to the Ghana bi-lateral at the moment however I think is rather more liberal than Nigeria from memory and indeed we are more likely to see a local competitor enter the market to compete with BA well before a Nigerian carrier does from Port Harcourt,Lagos Kano or Abuja .

Indeed there is also an embryonic carrier in the UK that (may) seeks for enter the market in the near future. Sentra Airways is the name ( registered no 11903393) is already a trading business

BaronHamstead · Sun Jan 08, 2023 3:19 pm

It is all very well Virgin talking about several routes to be added from London Heathrow, but sooner or later the question of the availability of suitably timed slots will need to be addressed.
As Virgin seem to have ruled out any return to Gatwick for next two or three years, one has to ask where are these slots coming from? Even with 'slot churn' and leasing arrangements there has to be an upper limit to the number they can have available for expansion. I suppose one solution is swapping between Skyteam partners, but even this must have its limitations.

concordeforever · Sun Jan 08, 2023 3:28 pm

Didn't Virgin lease some slots from Alitalia (now ITA) in the past? Or am I just dreaming this. KLM and SAS
both have loads of Heathrow slots, and if the latter are in as much trouble as some of the other threads say then may give some of these up. Blue Air recently went bust, and rumours are Tunis Air are looking to bail, so slots are always becoming available.

BaronHamstead · Sun Jan 08, 2023 3:41 pm

concordeforever wrote:
Didn't Virgin lease some slots from Alitalia (now ITA) in the past? Or am I just dreaming this. KLM and SAS
both have loads of Heathrow slots, and if the latter are in as much trouble as some of the other threads say then may give some of these up. Blue Air recently went bust, and rumours are Tunis Air are looking to bail, so slots are always becoming available.

Yes, but that doesn't mean they will necessarily go to Virgin or be suitable for long haul departures and arrivals.

concordeforever · Sun Jan 08, 2023 4:10 pm

Oh, I understand that. It's just that to me it's not as hard as it used to be to come by slots at Heathrow nowadays. Granted, most will still have to be allocated by ACL, but others can be leased. JetBlue have managed to get some more for this summer, and will be moving another flight from Gatwick to Heathrow, so the times must have suited them.

BaronHamstead · Sun Jan 08, 2023 4:36 pm

concordeforever wrote:
Oh, I understand that. It's just that to me it's not as hard as it used to be to come by slots at Heathrow nowadays. Granted, most will still have to be allocated by ACL, but others can be leased. JetBlue have managed to get some more for this summer, and will be moving another flight from Gatwick to Heathrow, so the times must have suited them.

Jet Blue have leased a slot from an airline that had a pair of slots that suited. As such the arrangement is not a permanent solution.

concordeforever · Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:29 pm

So, do you think that Virgin would not start a route using a leased slot?
I am assuming that the new Maldives route will be for the winter only, so would expect they have secured a lease for it. If not, then which current destination or frequency reduction do you think they will use for this route instead?

BaronHamstead · Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:50 pm

I am afraid I cannot answer your questions. I was just pointing out that a leased slot may not be a permanent solution. The purchase of other slots from another carrier
is the best solution. However there is also much competition for such slots. Leasing from other airlines or allocation by ACL are both possible, but never guaranteed. In the past Virgin have indeed reduced the frequency of other routes or dropped them completely to allow other services to begin or increase in frequency.
In times gone by having 5 or 6 daily slot pairs at Gatwick was useful for servicing long haul leisure focused point to point services. However I am not sure how many of these Virgin still own.
I know they have leased some out in the previous two years but but do not know if that is still the case. Delta may be using one slot pair of Virgin's at Gatwick for their New York service which begins later this year.
British Airways/BA Euroflyer seemed to been more sensible here in terms of long term planning. They are currently planning to use 50 to 60 of their daily slot pairs at Gatwick this Summer and have ensured that those leased out to EasyJet and Vueling can be retrieved when needed. Altogether they have nearly 100 slot pairs at Gatwick available(including those currently leased out) which allows them greater flexibility for expansion/development of services at both LHR and LGW than is presently available to Virgin. This is just my view.

concordeforever · Sun Jan 08, 2023 6:05 pm

Thanks for that, very informative. It will be interesting to see which other new routes they are planning and where the slots are coming from.

BaronHamstead · Sun Jan 08, 2023 6:59 pm

Just to add, when I mentioned BA had nearly 100 slot pairs for at Gatwick, I meant daily slot pairs. I left out the word daily.

LGWFAN · Sun Jan 22, 2023 9:01 am

Hi all,

Does anyone know if VS are planning on refitting the A350 with A339’s Thompson Aerospace hard J product? It just seems wild to me that an airline of Virgin’s size can have three completely different hard products in Business.

TC957 · Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:28 pm

Next A339 will now be G-VEII named Queen of the Skies in honour of the late Queen Elizabeth II

Magnum9 · Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:47 pm

LGWFAN wrote:
Hi all,

Does anyone know if VS are planning on refitting the A350 with A339’s Thompson Aerospace hard J product? It just seems wild to me that an airline of Virgin’s size can have three completely different hard products in Business.

It is wild, but not exactly unheard of. Given BA will be operating with 2 different hard J products that may not give VS much motivation to spend the money to synchronize J hard products across the fleet.

Additionally, with DL the largest minority shareholder it doesn’t surprise me at all if VS continues with three different hard products. As it stands now DL have 5 different J hard products - 75S, 76W, 764, A339/A359 and LatAm A350’s are all different. My understanding from the DL thread is this will remain the case until the 75S and 76W’s start to leave the fleet towards the end of this decade. That’ll drop them down to three different hard products between the 764, A339/A359 & LatAm A350’s. When/if they’ll update those LatAm A350’s is unknown. I’m sure VS is following DL’s lead just like they done in other areas. Look at VS’s website - it’s just like DL’s. They’re clearly heavily influenced by DL.

jbs2886 · Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:57 pm

Magnum9 wrote:
LGWFAN wrote:
Hi all,

Does anyone know if VS are planning on refitting the A350 with A339’s Thompson Aerospace hard J product? It just seems wild to me that an airline of Virgin’s size can have three completely different hard products in Business.

It is wild, but not exactly unheard of. Given BA will be operating with 2 different hard J products that may not give VS much motivation to spend the money to synchronize J hard products across the fleet.

Additionally, with DL the largest minority shareholder it doesn’t surprise me at all if VS continues with three different hard products. As it stands now DL have 5 different J hard products - 75S, 76W, 764, A339/A359 and LatAm A350’s are all different. My understanding from the DL thread is this will remain the case until the 75S and 76W’s start to leave the fleet towards the end of this decade. That’ll drop them down to three different hard products between the 764, A339/A359 & LatAm A350’s. When/if they’ll update those LatAm A350’s is unknown. I’m sure VS is following DL’s lead just like they done in other areas. Look at VS’s website - it’s just like DL’s. They’re clearly heavily influenced by DL.

Its not totally following DL's lead. VS has now licensed a lot of DL tech, which explains the website. I doubt DL's inconsistent J hard products "influence" VS.

FromCDGtoSYD · Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:58 pm

Magnum9 wrote:
LGWFAN wrote:
Hi all,

Does anyone know if VS are planning on refitting the A350 with A339’s Thompson Aerospace hard J product? It just seems wild to me that an airline of Virgin’s size can have three completely different hard products in Business.

It is wild, but not exactly unheard of. Given BA will be operating with 2 different hard J products that may not give VS much motivation to spend the money to synchronize J hard products across the fleet.

Additionally, with DL the largest minority shareholder it doesn’t surprise me at all if VS continues with three different hard products. As it stands now DL have 5 different J hard products - 75S, 76W, 764, A339/A359 and LatAm A350’s are all different. My understanding from the DL thread is this will remain the case until the 75S and 76W’s start to leave the fleet towards the end of this decade. That’ll drop them down to three different hard products between the 764, A339/A359 & LatAm A350’s. When/if they’ll update those LatAm A350’s is unknown. I’m sure VS is following DL’s lead just like they done in other areas. Look at VS’s website - it’s just like DL’s. They’re clearly heavily influenced by DL.

I’ve read DL is looking at a new D1 product for their A350 fleet. Maybe we’ll see DL go for the same product as VS on their A350, they already share their A330neo products. That would be an interesting turn of events.

Magnum9 · Mon Jan 23, 2023 9:18 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
Magnum9 wrote:
LGWFAN wrote:
Hi all,

Does anyone know if VS are planning on refitting the A350 with A339’s Thompson Aerospace hard J product? It just seems wild to me that an airline of Virgin’s size can have three completely different hard products in Business.

It is wild, but not exactly unheard of. Given BA will be operating with 2 different hard J products that may not give VS much motivation to spend the money to synchronize J hard products across the fleet.

Additionally, with DL the largest minority shareholder it doesn’t surprise me at all if VS continues with three different hard products. As it stands now DL have 5 different J hard products - 75S, 76W, 764, A339/A359 and LatAm A350’s are all different. My understanding from the DL thread is this will remain the case until the 75S and 76W’s start to leave the fleet towards the end of this decade. That’ll drop them down to three different hard products between the 764, A339/A359 & LatAm A350’s. When/if they’ll update those LatAm A350’s is unknown. I’m sure VS is following DL’s lead just like they done in other areas. Look at VS’s website - it’s just like DL’s. They’re clearly heavily influenced by DL.

Its not totally following DL's lead. VS has now licensed a lot of DL tech, which explains the website. I doubt DL's inconsistent J hard products "influence" VS.

You can believe anything you want, that’s the great thing about having your own point of view or perspective.

Virgin’s actions - whether it be adopting & licensing DL’s tech or following DL’s trend of having several different J hard products - tells you all you need to know about how influential DL is to them.

Magnum9 · Mon Jan 23, 2023 9:20 pm

FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
Magnum9 wrote:
LGWFAN wrote:
Hi all,

Does anyone know if VS are planning on refitting the A350 with A339’s Thompson Aerospace hard J product? It just seems wild to me that an airline of Virgin’s size can have three completely different hard products in Business.

It is wild, but not exactly unheard of. Given BA will be operating with 2 different hard J products that may not give VS much motivation to spend the money to synchronize J hard products across the fleet.

Additionally, with DL the largest minority shareholder it doesn’t surprise me at all if VS continues with three different hard products. As it stands now DL have 5 different J hard products - 75S, 76W, 764, A339/A359 and LatAm A350’s are all different. My understanding from the DL thread is this will remain the case until the 75S and 76W’s start to leave the fleet towards the end of this decade. That’ll drop them down to three different hard products between the 764, A339/A359 & LatAm A350’s. When/if they’ll update those LatAm A350’s is unknown. I’m sure VS is following DL’s lead just like they done in other areas. Look at VS’s website - it’s just like DL’s. They’re clearly heavily influenced by DL.

I’ve read DL is looking at a new D1 product for their A350 fleet. Maybe we’ll see DL go for the same product as VS on their A350, they already share their A330neo products. That would be an interesting turn of events.

To clarify - do you mean a new D1 product for all A350’s? Or are you specifically referencing the newly acquired LatAm A350’s that have 2x2x2 J seats?

FromCDGtoSYD · Mon Jan 23, 2023 11:14 pm

Magnum9 wrote:
FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
Magnum9 wrote:

It is wild, but not exactly unheard of. Given BA will be operating with 2 different hard J products that may not give VS much motivation to spend the money to synchronize J hard products across the fleet.

Additionally, with DL the largest minority shareholder it doesn’t surprise me at all if VS continues with three different hard products. As it stands now DL have 5 different J hard products - 75S, 76W, 764, A339/A359 and LatAm A350’s are all different. My understanding from the DL thread is this will remain the case until the 75S and 76W’s start to leave the fleet towards the end of this decade. That’ll drop them down to three different hard products between the 764, A339/A359 & LatAm A350’s. When/if they’ll update those LatAm A350’s is unknown. I’m sure VS is following DL’s lead just like they done in other areas. Look at VS’s website - it’s just like DL’s. They’re clearly heavily influenced by DL.

I’ve read DL is looking at a new D1 product for their A350 fleet. Maybe we’ll see DL go for the same product as VS on their A350, they already share their A330neo products. That would be an interesting turn of events.

To clarify - do you mean a new D1 product for all A350’s? Or are you specifically referencing the newly acquired LatAm A350’s that have 2x2x2 J seats?

That I am not sure, presumably the whole A350 fleet. I’m not saying this is confirmed by any means. But it would be interesting if there was further convergence between DL and VS products.

skipness1E · Tue Jan 24, 2023 2:06 am

The next A330-900 has had a change of registration to G-VEII to honour our late Queen and has been names "Queen of the Skies".

Not quite sure of con no or original reg?

audidudi · Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:53 am

skipness1E wrote:
The next A330-900 has had a change of registration to G-VEII to honour our late Queen and has been names "Queen of the Skies".

Not quite sure of con no or original reg?

According to abcdlist.nl, G-VLDY, MSN 2025, the third A339 delivered to VS on 10 January 2023, has been re-registered G-VEII.

https://www.abcdlist.nl/a340f/a340f.html

Arion640 · Tue Jan 24, 2023 7:32 am

skipness1E wrote:
The next A330-900 has had a change of registration to G-VEII to honour our late Queen and has been names "Queen of the Skies".

Not quite sure of con no or original reg?

Awesome

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net