Airbus putting some efforts on this southeast asia tour




https://api.nst.com.my/news/nation/2023 ... nes-bounce

With the Malaysia/Airbus SAF joint ventures (shown on this demo tour) and Quebec project to advance A220 from 50% to 100% SAF capable, I'm hoping and it would be dashing to see A220 deck out the Malaysian kite livery on its vertical tail in the not-too-distant future.

FLALEFTY wrote:

Sermons wrote:

FLALEFTY wrote:

I believe Airbus will launch the A220-500 in the 2025-26 timeframe and be ready for deliveries by 2029-30. But they lots of work to do in the meantime.

First is getting Pratt to come up with corrective actions for the PW1500G engines that will get the time-on-wing intervals up to spec, increase operational reliability and provide better MRO support. Second, Airbus needs to figure out the 500's size, payload and range targets and design the new bird. Third, they need launch customers, preferably big US airlines like UA, AA and DL who are still flying large fleets of A319 & A320CEOs. Fourth, Airbus needs to get current A220 FAL's productivity up well beyond the 10-14 per month (combined) that are the current rates. Fifth, Airbus may need to consider opening a bespoke A220-500 design center and assembly line (probably at Toulouse, or Hamburg).

No way is UA and AA waiting till 2030 to start replacing their 319/320ceo fleet, maybe Delta but that is still a long wait. The a223 can cover 319 replacements just fine.

2030 is just a bit over 6.5 years away. Airbus first needs to address the current A220 issues before moving forward with a new design variant. As mentioned somewhere upthread, pro airline analysts don't expect Airbus to launch the A220-500 this year. I'm skeptical that they (& PW) can clear up the current A220 issues to be ready for a 2024 A220-500 launch. However, it is my understanding that Airbus has a design center in Quebec currently working on the preliminary design for the A220-500, so that could help pull in the launch date.

As for UA's & AA's fleets of A319 & A320CEOs, it appears that both airlines have been moving forward with buying B737MAX8s as replacements. Both of these airlines are in the midst of major re-fleeting programs and they will have their plates full adding new B787s, B737MAXes, A321NEOs & A321XLRs for the rest of the decade. I wouldn't be surprised to see some of UA's and AA's A319 & A320 fleets (and Delta's) soldiering on beyond the end of the 2020's.

Of the Big 3, Delta would be the most likely launch customer for the A220-500. They already fly the other two A220 variants and DL has A320CEOs and B737-800s that will need replacements in a few years. If the A220-500 hits the size and payload "sweet spot" of say, 160-seats/3-classes, that would put their A220 fleet in the 110-seat, 130-seat and 160-seat size categories.

I agree. Besides DL, AF is a much more likely launch customer. They basically stated as much trying to build pressure to launch the 500.

lightsaber wrote :
2. ALC to place more A220 and top off their order, again.

Four for Chech Airlines scheduled for delivery in 2024
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20230601005318/en/Air-Lease-Corporation-Announces-Lease-Placement-of-Four-New-Airbus-A220-Aircraft-with-Czech-Airlines

FLALEFTY wrote:

I believe Airbus will launch the A220-500 in the 2025-26 timeframe and be ready for deliveries by 2029-30. But they lots of work to do in the meantime.

Fourth, Airbus needs to get current A220 FAL's productivity up well beyond the 10-14 per month (combined) that are the current rates.

The current delivery rate isn't 10-14 a month. From Airbus' own deliveries worksheet downloaded today, they had delivered 16 A220s through the end of April. They've talked about getting to six/month this year, but that's what they said early last year, too, when deliveries were just five more than in 2019.

https://www.airbus.com/en/products-serv ... deliveries

Airbus doesn't have an A220 sales problem. It has production rate and profit problems.

UA has plenty of MAXs on order to replace A320s. UA hasn't taken delivery of a new aircraft smaller than a 738 or 7M8 in ~11 years. I wouldn't bet that UA will attempt to replace 319s seat-for-seat/frame for frame.

AA isn't budgeting the CapEx in the near term for big aicraft purchases. Projected spending is way below Delta, let alone UA, levels. This is found in the regular investment banking Industrials conference presentations.

MIflyer12 wrote:

FLALEFTY wrote:

I believe Airbus will launch the A220-500 in the 2025-26 timeframe and be ready for deliveries by 2029-30. But they lots of work to do in the meantime.

Fourth, Airbus needs to get current A220 FAL's productivity up well beyond the 10-14 per month (combined) that are the current rates.

The current delivery rate isn't 10-14 a month. From Airbus' own deliveries worksheet downloaded today, they had delivered 16 A220s through the end of April. They've talked about getting to six/month this year, but that's what they said early last year, too, when deliveries were just five more than in 2019.

https://www.airbus.com/en/products-serv ... deliveries

Airbus doesn't have an A220 sales problem. It has production rate and profit problems.

UA has plenty of MAXs on order to replace A320s. UA hasn't taken delivery of a new aircraft smaller than a 738 or 7M8 in ~11 years. I wouldn't bet that UA will attempt to replace 319s seat-for-seat/frame for frame.

AA isn't budgeting the CapEx in the near term for big aicraft purchases. Projected spending is way below Delta, let alone UA, levels. This is found in the regular investment banking Industrials conference presentations.

Oops...I guess the 10-14 per month rate for A220s was Airbus' target for peak production (e.g. 10 from Mirabel & 4 from Mobile). You are right, Airbus' current overall A220 rate is more like 4 per month, which is not too good, especially considering they have two A220 production facilities.

AA has 88 more MAX8s on firm order. For example, there are 17 MAX8s planned for delivery before the end of this year. I suspect that AA also has exercisable options for more MAX8s later this decade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_fleet

As for UA, I mentioned in my earlier post that their upcoming MAX deliveries will probably end up being the replacements for their A319CEO & A320CEO fleets. But you are right, I don't believe UA will even try for a 1-to-1 replacement of the A319 fleet.

FLALEFTY wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

FLALEFTY wrote:

I believe Airbus will launch the A220-500 in the 2025-26 timeframe and be ready for deliveries by 2029-30. But they lots of work to do in the meantime.

Fourth, Airbus needs to get current A220 FAL's productivity up well beyond the 10-14 per month (combined) that are the current rates.

The current delivery rate isn't 10-14 a month. From Airbus' own deliveries worksheet downloaded today, they had delivered 16 A220s through the end of April. They've talked about getting to six/month this year, but that's what they said early last year, too, when deliveries were just five more than in 2019.

https://www.airbus.com/en/products-serv ... deliveries

Airbus doesn't have an A220 sales problem. It has production rate and profit problems.

UA has plenty of MAXs on order to replace A320s. UA hasn't taken delivery of a new aircraft smaller than a 738 or 7M8 in ~11 years. I wouldn't bet that UA will attempt to replace 319s seat-for-seat/frame for frame.

AA isn't budgeting the CapEx in the near term for big aicraft purchases. Projected spending is way below Delta, let alone UA, levels. This is found in the regular investment banking Industrials conference presentations.

Oops...I guess the 10-14 per month rate for A220s was Airbus' target for peak production (e.g. 10 from Mirabel & 4 from Mobile). You are right, Airbus' current overall A220 rate is more like 4 per month, which is not too good, especially considering they have two A220 production facilities.

AA has 88 more MAX8s on firm order. For example, there are 17 MAX8s planned for delivery before the end of this year. I suspect that AA also has exercisable options for more MAX8s later this decade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_fleet

As for UA, I mentioned in my earlier post that their upcoming MAX deliveries will probably end up being the replacements for their A319CEO & A320CEO fleets. But you are right, I don't believe UA will even try for a 1-to-1 replacement of the A319 fleet.

4/month? More like just over 3/month with 16 contractual deliveries in 5 months. It's not just production. They've been losing some deliveries to lease cancellations at the 11th hour.

yyztpa2 wrote:

FLALEFTY wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

The current delivery rate isn't 10-14 a month. From Airbus' own deliveries worksheet downloaded today, they had delivered 16 A220s through the end of April. They've talked about getting to six/month this year, but that's what they said early last year, too, when deliveries were just five more than in 2019.

https://www.airbus.com/en/products-serv ... deliveries

Airbus doesn't have an A220 sales problem. It has production rate and profit problems.

UA has plenty of MAXs on order to replace A320s. UA hasn't taken delivery of a new aircraft smaller than a 738 or 7M8 in ~11 years. I wouldn't bet that UA will attempt to replace 319s seat-for-seat/frame for frame.

AA isn't budgeting the CapEx in the near term for big aicraft purchases. Projected spending is way below Delta, let alone UA, levels. This is found in the regular investment banking Industrials conference presentations.

Oops...I guess the 10-14 per month rate for A220s was Airbus' target for peak production (e.g. 10 from Mirabel & 4 from Mobile). You are right, Airbus' current overall A220 rate is more like 4 per month, which is not too good, especially considering they have two A220 production facilities.

AA has 88 more MAX8s on firm order. For example, there are 17 MAX8s planned for delivery before the end of this year. I suspect that AA also has exercisable options for more MAX8s later this decade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_fleet

As for UA, I mentioned in my earlier post that their upcoming MAX deliveries will probably end up being the replacements for their A319CEO & A320CEO fleets. But you are right, I don't believe UA will even try for a 1-to-1 replacement of the A319 fleet.

4/month? More like just over 3/month with 16 contractual deliveries in 5 months. It's not just production. They've been losing some deliveries to lease cancellations at the 11th hour.

I only now notice you were reflecting to the end of April numbers and not including May so almost 4/ month is correct to the end of April.

I wonder how much of the production delays are Mobile AL specific, Mirabel QC specific and P&W poweplant specific?

Maybe all 3? In any event there are serious issues but I suspect the P&W engines is the worst.

yyztpa2 wrote:

yyztpa2 wrote:

FLALEFTY wrote:

Oops...I guess the 10-14 per month rate for A220s was Airbus' target for peak production (e.g. 10 from Mirabel & 4 from Mobile). You are right, Airbus' current overall A220 rate is more like 4 per month, which is not too good, especially considering they have two A220 production facilities.

AA has 88 more MAX8s on firm order. For example, there are 17 MAX8s planned for delivery before the end of this year. I suspect that AA also has exercisable options for more MAX8s later this decade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_fleet

As for UA, I mentioned in my earlier post that their upcoming MAX deliveries will probably end up being the replacements for their A319CEO & A320CEO fleets. But you are right, I don't believe UA will even try for a 1-to-1 replacement of the A319 fleet.

4/month? More like just over 3/month with 16 contractual deliveries in 5 months. It's not just production. They've been losing some deliveries to lease cancellations at the 11th hour.

I only now notice you were reflecting to the end of April numbers and not including May so almost 4/ month is correct to the end of April.

Did the "end of April numbers" include the three flights in January that were "delivered on contract" for 2022? It appears the little over 3/month is more accurate. If my numbers below are correct:
end of May: 16 / 5 = 3.2
if there were 3 deliveries in May, then end of Apr = (16-3)/4=3.25

rtwodtwo wrote:

yyztpa2 wrote:

yyztpa2 wrote:

4/month? More like just over 3/month with 16 contractual deliveries in 5 months. It's not just production. They've been losing some deliveries to lease cancellations at the 11th hour.

I only now notice you were reflecting to the end of April numbers and not including May so almost 4/ month is correct to the end of April.

Did the "end of April numbers" include the three flights in January that were "delivered on contract" for 2022? It appears the little over 3/month is more accurate. If my numbers below are correct:
end of May: 16 / 5 = 3.2
if there were 3 deliveries in May, then end of Apr = (16-3)/4=3.25

Your numbers are a mess. Until end of April Airbus delivered 16 A220-300s wich means 4 per month and nothing else. Check out the fact yourself from the best source
https://www.airbus.com/en/products-services/commercial-aircraft/market/orders-and-deliveries

oldJoe wrote:

rtwodtwo wrote:

yyztpa2 wrote:

I only now notice you were reflecting to the end of April numbers and not including May so almost 4/ month is correct to the end of April.

Did the "end of April numbers" include the three flights in January that were "delivered on contract" for 2022? It appears the little over 3/month is more accurate. If my numbers below are correct:
end of May: 16 / 5 = 3.2
if there were 3 deliveries in May, then end of Apr = (16-3)/4=3.25

Your numbers are a mess. Until end of April Airbus delivered 16 A220-300s wich means 4 per month and nothing else. Check out the fact yourself from the best source
https://www.airbus.com/en/products-services/commercial-aircraft/market/orders-and-deliveries

Thanks for the reminder. I don't mean to question the production rate from previous posts. I find the contract and actual deliveries confusing. I sure missed Peter's website.
I think this underwhelming production rate to stay this way and likely only improves later 2024.
https://simpleflying.com/airbaltic-expe ... lear-2025/

found this while searching for above:
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 023-06-04/
key points in the article beside the order, particularly the last few words is very encouraging:

Repair shops have become congested worldwide as the latest engines achieve less time in service between maintenance than originally planned, aggravated by weak global supply chains.

Gauss said the fuel-saving Geared Turbofan engines were however performing better than expected in terms of fuel burn and emissions.

A spokesperson for Raytheon Technologies (RTX.N) unit Pratt & Whitney reiterated it had "improved time on wing since programme inception, but we are not yet at the level we expect to achieve".

The PAS is aproaching and I have to wonder if there is any anouncment over there? We have a new operator: Bulgaria Air on lease with ALC with four more A220-300s plus 2 A20-100 on lease ( great job mr Udvar Hazy ) Wat else can we except? I hope P&W get their mess sorted out pretty soon because it hurts the program at all. P&W engines are at the moment a nightmare to airlines. An Airframe suffers from pur engenise performance is considered usleless

rtwodtwo wrote :
Hopefully, Azorra (22) and ACG (20) will have some numbers to announce in the near future.

ACG placed 4 A220-300 with TAAG Angola Airlines. Note : The order is on top of the six A220-300s TAAG is expecting from Air Lease Corporation !
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/128768-taag-angola-airlines-to-lease-four-more-a220-300s

A220-500 is called A221 in Airbus according to the Chief Commercial Officer.
https://theaircurrent.com/aircraft-deve ... nto-focus/

It doesn't say it IS called an A221, it infers that because they don't know what it will look like it shouldn't be referred to as a -500 but something else

fcogafa wrote:

It doesn't say it IS called an A221, it infers that because they don't know what it will look like it shouldn't be referred to as a -500 but something else

Interesting choice for a name. Maybe they should have done that a long time ago when they first took up the CSeries program and we’d have the A219 and A220 now. How can they now turn around and say there’s no A220-500?

Maybe they’re calling it A221 because it will have a new larger wing or some element that greatly differentiates it from the A220. Maybe new engines alone justify the new name (type)

hloutweg wrote:

fcogafa wrote:

It doesn't say it IS called an A221, it infers that because they don't know what it will look like it shouldn't be referred to as a -500 but something else

Interesting choice for a name. Maybe they should have done that a long time ago when they first took up the CSeries program and we’d have the A219 and A220 now. How can they now turn around and say there’s no A220-500?

Agreed, a bit of a mess.

Ideally you would have:

A221 = CSeries 100
A222 = CSeries 300
A223 = CSeries "500"

That way A220 refers to the aircraft family as a whole and you avoid the issue of the A320 (whereby "A320" refers both to the aircraft family and the individual type).

I have always thought that the 500 was a certainty. Its all about timing as a result of other issues in the marketplace. But it will neatly fit the capacity space provided for over 40 years by the MD80 series, and with massively less fuel burn and more range flexibility. Passengers love the 2-3 seating configuration and airlines will love the low, low, low fuel burn, which I calculate to be ~35% less than the MD80 series. I DO wish that there was another engine option, and would love to know what the contract language Airbus inherited from Bombardier says. Is sole source for PW a given for the 500? As I have commented many times, the low fuel burn of the GTF is great but PW is apparently incapable of building a reliable engine. A CFM engine option might attract more customers, and airlines might be willing to give up ~5-7% fuel burn for a massive reliability increase.

My guess is that Delta has been asking for it all along, that the 500 was always in the plan. A 500 might garner some interest from AA and UAL. And if that happens, Asian and European carriers are sure to join the stampede.

And please, the A320 is over-engined with the new engines. Way too much range and weight for far too little capacity. Airbus would rather sell higher priced A321s, which they can't build fast enough. So I don't buy the "500 will steal orders from the 320 space" argument.

Breeze is leasing a pair of A220-300 from Azorra Aviation in early 2024 to make up for delivery delays on its own order. These will be from the order of 20 A220-300 which Azorra made in early 2022. Azorra had also ordered a pair of ACJ TwoTwenty at the time.
https://airwaysmag.com/azorra-aviation- ... e-airways/

zkojq wrote:

Ideally you would have:

A221 = CSeries 100
A222 = CSeries 300
A223 = CSeries "500"

Wouldn't A219, A220, and A221 make more sense, given the 320 family's naming convention?

N766UA wrote:

zkojq wrote:

Ideally you would have:

A221 = CSeries 100
A222 = CSeries 300
A223 = CSeries "500"

Wouldn't A219, A220, and A221 make more sense, given the 320 family's naming convention?

Then you have confusion between whether "A220" is referring to the A220 aircraft and the A220 aircraft family/program.

zkojq wrote:

N766UA wrote:

zkojq wrote:

Ideally you would have:

A221 = CSeries 100
A222 = CSeries 300
A223 = CSeries "500"

Wouldn't A219, A220, and A221 make more sense, given the 320 family's naming convention?

Then you have confusion between whether "A220" is referring to the A220 aircraft and the A220 aircraft family/program.

No different than A320, and we’ve all managed ok there.

TonyClifton wrote:

zkojq wrote:

N766UA wrote:

Wouldn't A219, A220, and A221 make more sense, given the 320 family's naming convention?

Then you have confusion between whether "A220" is referring to the A220 aircraft and the A220 aircraft family/program.

No different than A320, and we’ve all managed ok there.

Have we? Frequently when there is an A320 order there is extensive discussion as to whether it's for the A320neo or actually for the A321neo.

Not a hill I'm willing to die on, but I do prefer more clarity.

I missed this one
https://azorra.com/2023/06/20/azorra-leases-three-new-airbus-a220s-to-taag-angola-airlines/
TAAG Angola Airlines leases another three A220-300s which makes it to 13
6 from Air lease Corporation
4 from Aviation Capital Group
3 from Azorra
Nice to see lessors can place the A 220

So they already want to replace the wing on the 220?

I think they should straighten the wing a tad and make it a turboprop. The world needs a large turboprop. Seems to be the right size.

And redo the avionics to be the same as the rest of the airbus fleet and you have a winner. Finally

zkojq wrote:

Ideally you would have:

A221 = CSeries 100
A222 = CSeries 300
A223 = CSeries "500"

Still a bit confusing as the last & first digits in each column do not instinctively jive with each other, save for the initial model. Maybe officially branding the last two as A223 and A225 respectively would make the distinctions more obvious.

June Orders and Deliverables are out from Airbus. In addition to the 9 options converted to orders by QANTAS, Airbus is also showing an undisclosed order for 12 on June 30. Who might that be?

yyztpa2 wrote:

June Orders and Deliverables are out from Airbus. In addition to the 9 options converted to orders by QANTAS, Airbus is also showing an undisclosed order for 12 on June 30. Who might that be?

Cyprus Airways

behramjee wrote:

yyztpa2 wrote:

June Orders and Deliverables are out from Airbus. In addition to the 9 options converted to orders by QANTAS, Airbus is also showing an undisclosed order for 12 on June 30. Who might that be?

Cyprus Airways

Not sure about that. Cyprus are taking their 2023-26 deliveries through lessors with two of those already accounted for with ALC in the June delivery report and the other supposedly this past week. Their stated targeted fleet size was to be 10.

yyztpa2 wrote:

behramjee wrote:

yyztpa2 wrote:

June Orders and Deliverables are out from Airbus. In addition to the 9 options converted to orders by QANTAS, Airbus is also showing an undisclosed order for 12 on June 30. Who might that be?

Cyprus Airways

Not sure about that. Cyprus are taking their 2023-26 deliveries through lessors with two of those already accounted for with ALC in the June delivery report and the other supposedly this past week. Their stated targeted fleet size was to be 10.

It could be Cyprus Airways, but I could be wrong. They are leasing two from ALC and intended to add 10 more by 2028 for total of 12. The total # matches.
https://aviationweek.com/air-transport/ ... tions-2028

Would prefer this unknown order be from a new airline operator.

After reading
https://simpleflying.com/a220-operators/
I was curious how many operators and some quick fact checks to see what's up with the leasers
By mid 2024, there could be 22 operators.


Notes
1: https://azorra.com/2021/08/30/azorra-ta ... rbus-a220/
2: https://azorra.com/2023/06/26/azorra-le ... e-airways/

The table above isn`t really accurate. I use Airbus O&D spreadsheet.
https://www.airbus.com/en/products-services/commercial-aircraft/market/orders-and-deliveries
Delta Air Lines should be 45 + 16 = 61
Swiss 9 + 21 = 30
Air France 25
Iraqi Airways 4
Air Manas from GTLK Europe
Air Senegal from Carlyle Aviation Partners
Leasing companies 12 + 173 = 185 orders
I also would prefer a new operator for the undiscloded 12 frames. Maybe we get some surprise ?

rtwodtwo wrote:

yyztpa2 wrote:

behramjee wrote:

Cyprus Airways

Not sure about that. Cyprus are taking their 2023-26 deliveries through lessors with two of those already accounted for with ALC in the June delivery report and the other supposedly this past week. Their stated targeted fleet size was to be 10.

It could be Cyprus Airways, but I could be wrong. They are leasing two from ALC and intended to add 10 more by 2028 for total of 12. The total # matches.
https://aviationweek.com/air-transport/ ... tions-2028

Would prefer this unknown order be from a new airline operator.

After reading
https://simpleflying.com/a220-operators/
I was curious how many operators and some quick fact checks to see what's up with the leasers
By mid 2024, there could be 22 operators.


Notes
1: https://azorra.com/2021/08/30/azorra-ta ... rbus-a220/
2: https://azorra.com/2023/06/26/azorra-le ... e-airways/

Airbus is recording one single new factory order for all12 A220-300 on June 30. This would be from a single buyer. The leased ariceraft that Cyprus are receiving are from multiple lessors and are from orders previously made by these lessors including the two ALC has aleady delivered. So unless Cyprus has only placed short term leases and looks to replace them later, which would be odd in that they have indicated they intend to place later orders also with lessors, it can't be them. It could be a lessor returning to Airbus for top up orders, though it's not as common for a lessor to be 'undisclosed'.

zkojq wrote:

N766UA wrote:

zkojq wrote:

Ideally you would have:

A221 = CSeries 100
A222 = CSeries 300
A223 = CSeries "500"

Wouldn't A219, A220, and A221 make more sense, given the 320 family's naming convention?

Then you have confusion between whether "A220" is referring to the A220 aircraft and the A220 aircraft family/program.

I mean, it already is confusing, as in airline systems the A220-100 is the "A221," and the A220-300 is the "A223." Add to that their ATC identifiers "BCS1" and "BCS3," and the type rating "BD500." It really could do with a bit of standardization.

Maybe Airbus can just hire Apple people for their naming conventions. "Okay, we've settled on A220, A220 pro, and A220 pro max!"

oldJoe wrote:

The table above isn`t really accurate. I use Airbus O&D spreadsheet.
https://www.airbus.com/en/products-services/commercial-aircraft/market/orders-and-deliveries
Delta Air Lines should be 45 + 16 = 61
Swiss 9 + 21 = 30
Air France 25
Iraqi Airways 4
Air Manas from GTLK Europe
Air Senegal from Carlyle Aviation Partners
Leasing companies 12 + 173 = 185 orders
I also would prefer a new operator for the undiscloded 12 frames. Maybe we get some surprise ?

Thanks for the corrections. I forgot Carlyle Group. I recall Lightsaber mentioning 30+ operators to reach economy of scale (?? not sure the right term). By around mid 2024, we will be at 22 active operators, eight more to go.

This is why I like to commend Airbus's efforts in promoting A220 in the recent demo tours. They did 3 separate tours in South-East Asia. Hopefully the seeds of interest grow and bear lots of fruits in the near future.

2023-May: with airBaltic: Malaysia(Sarawak, Langkawi's Lima23), Indonesia(Jakarta), Thailand(Bangkok, Samui)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mKwtOvP6SI

2022-May: tour with airBaltic: Sidney, Singapore, Vietnam, Japan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8p7rGzdrto

2019-Dec: Airbus's own A220 as shown here in KL (Kuala Lumpur).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvnfFgLiink

yyztpa2 wrote:

June Orders and Deliverables are out from Airbus. In addition to the 9 options converted to orders by QANTAS, Airbus is also showing an undisclosed order for 12 on June 30. Who might that be?

As also mentioned in the A220 Prodcut/Deliveries thread by Bkflguy, Delta has been identied as exercisoing options on 12 more A220-300. This is the second exercise of options in 2023 and Delta's total 2023 orders now stand at 24.
https://news.delta.com/delta-exercises- ... ined-fleet

I find it interesting that much of the advertising regarding the A220 is about its long range capability while most operators in Europe, Africa and Asia are using the A220 on mostly short flights (from 30 minutes long to 2 hours long)... is it due to the engines needing maintenance after only 5,000 hours and they try to get max number of flights out of those 5,000 hours?

The A220 carries around a lot of unused weight if it is ready for 7-hour flights but only fly 40-minute hops. From pics online it looks like the SWISS A220-100 and A220-300 have cooling storage for carts in the aft galley - usually found in long-haul aircraft only to keep food chilled for many hours before being served as a second meal. Are SWISS planning on using the A220s on 6+ hour flights eventually?

How are the economics on 125-seat A221s, like the ones SWISS have? Is it equal to the 145-seat A223?

I'm not sure if we can post any speculation on this thread, but Air North, Yukon's Airline lists the A223 as a possibility to replace some of their existing 737 fleet on page 18 in their 2022 Annual Report. . I'm almost 100% sure they will stick with Boeing, but it would be really cool to have 4N using the A223 to serve the Yukon on a daily basis in the future.
They show a list price of around 38.83 million, compared to the Max7 at 42.5, and Max 8 at 52.0. I'm not sure how accurate those numbers are, or what slots are available at either Boeing or Airbus, but it sure would be nice to see a fleet refresh that's for sure! I think what we will see is some 737 NG's and call it good.
I would love to see Airbus send up an A223 demonstrator to YXY to see if they could land another Canadian operator, even if they are a very small operator!

airnorth wrote:

I'm not sure if we can post any speculation on this thread, but Air North, Yukon's Airline lists the A223 as a possibility to replace some of their existing 737 fleet on page 18 in their 2022 Annual Report. . I'm almost 100% sure they will stick with Boeing, but it would be really cool to have 4N using the A223 to serve the Yukon on a daily basis in the future.
They show a list price of around 38.83 million, compared to the Max7 at 42.5, and Max 8 at 52.0. I'm not sure how accurate those numbers are, or what slots are available at either Boeing or Airbus, but it sure would be nice to see a fleet refresh that's for sure! I think what we will see is some 737 NG's and call it good.
I would love to see Airbus send up an A223 demonstrator to YXY to see if they could land another Canadian operator, even if they are a very small operator!

Interesting that an A223 made a stop in YFB a couple of days ago

CRJ900 wrote:

I find it interesting that much of the advertising regarding the A220 is about its long range capability while most operators in Europe, Africa and Asia are using the A220 on mostly short flights (from 30 minutes long to 2 hours long)... is it due to the engines needing maintenance after only 5,000 hours and they try to get max number of flights out of those 5,000 hours?

Compared to its closest competitor, the E2-jets, the A220 have more range, so some airlines will choose the A220 in order to have that flexibility to do longer routes. The benefit of advanced aerodynamics and composite wings etc. is larger on longer haul routes. The E2 and A220 have very similar PW GTF engines.

The rumour is that Airbus is internally debating if the A220-500 should be a simple stretch, thus loosing range, or if the new variant should maintain the same range as the -300.

CRJ900 wrote:

The A220 carries around a lot of unused weight if it is ready for 7-hour flights but only fly 40-minute hops.

The A220 is very efficient and can do both short hops and longer routes efficiently. Airlines like this flexibility. A320/737 can also fly for 7 hours, but the vast majority of flights world-wide are less than 2 hours.

CRJ900 wrote:

From pics online it looks like the SWISS A220-100 and A220-300 have cooling storage for carts in the aft galley - usually found in long-haul aircraft only to keep food chilled for many hours before being served as a second meal. Are SWISS planning on using the A220s on 6+ hour flights eventually?

They need to keep the food and drinks chilled as they don't replenish the galley on each hop, but only do so at their home base. This is normal for a lot of European airlines, on Inter-European flights, in order to have a consistent product.

There aren't many interesting that places Swiss can fly to from Switzerland, with a flight time of around 5 to 7 hours. The only destinations will be Africa and the middel-east, but such routes are usually cargo-heavy and therefore it's better to send a widebody.

reidar76 wrote:

CRJ900 wrote:

I find it interesting that much of the advertising regarding the A220 is about its long range capability while most operators in Europe, Africa and Asia are using the A220 on mostly short flights (from 30 minutes long to 2 hours long)... is it due to the engines needing maintenance after only 5,000 hours and they try to get max number of flights out of those 5,000 hours?

Compared to its closest competitor, the E2-jets, the A220 have more range, so some airlines will choose the A220 in order to have that flexibility to do longer routes. The benefit of advanced aerodynamics and composite wings etc. is larger on longer haul routes. The E2 and A220 have very similar PW GTF engines.

The rumour is that Airbus is internally debating if the A220-500 should be a simple stretch, thus loosing range, or if the new variant should maintain the same range as the -300.

CRJ900 wrote:

The A220 carries around a lot of unused weight if it is ready for 7-hour flights but only fly 40-minute hops.

The A220 is very efficient and can do both short hops and longer routes efficiently. Airlines like this flexibility. A320/737 can also fly for 7 hours, but the vast majority of flights world-wide are less than 2 hours.

CRJ900 wrote:

From pics online it looks like the SWISS A220-100 and A220-300 have cooling storage for carts in the aft galley - usually found in long-haul aircraft only to keep food chilled for many hours before being served as a second meal. Are SWISS planning on using the A220s on 6+ hour flights eventually?

They need to keep the food and drinks chilled as they don't replenish the galley on each hop, but only do so at their home base. This is normal for a lot of European airlines, on Inter-European flights, in order to have a consistent product.

There aren't many interesting that places Swiss can fly to from Switzerland, with a flight time of around 5 to 7 hours. The only destinations will be Africa and the middel-east, but such routes are usually cargo-heavy and therefore it's better to send a widebody.

Airbus already communicates the requirements for the stretch, so no more depate. It was posted in another thread:
viewtopic.php?t=1478645&view=unread#p23873717

Interview with Stan Shparberg VP Marketing Airbus about future developments: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2l71ry ... 5lcw%3D%3D

Some interesting notes about A220 stretch:
- they are calling it a stretch not A220-500
- Engine choice is a requirement, CFM Leap main contender
- Range similar or more then A220-300

Otherwise notes already known:
- Not if, but when
- Customers are asking for it
- Talks with customers about final specs have been underway multiple years
- Lack of commonality not an hindrance for sales and won't be addressed
- New bins will be available from late 2025 to beginning 2026, apparently also at request of customers (less weight + more in cabin storage space)

An interview with Airbus CEO Guillaume Faury with a comment about durability of Pratt engine and dual engine on A220 Stretch:

https://aviationweek.com/shownews/paris ... narrowbody

If you launched an A220-500, could you still go with a Pratt engine, or would you have to open it up to additional sources given the durability issues Pratt currently has on the geared turbofan? We are very happy with the dual-engine configuration we have on the A320neo. So if we could over time on the A220 have a dual-engine option—especially with a new variant being the -500—that’s one thing we would really like to see. The Pratt engine on the A220 is delivering excellent performance and economics. The engine is reliable, but the engine is not durable. The time on wing is not OK, and Pratt is working hard to solve those problems. The Pratt engine is not the only new-generation engine that has poor durability, but it’s more visible on the Pratt engine than on the others because they have gone so low in terms of [maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO)] and spare capacity during COVID. Now they are missing MRO capacities and spare parts, and it’s impacting the in-service fleet. That’s the main difference.

So, it is mainly the Time on Wing that is to short(durability) and not reliability...

According to simple flying Air Niugini plans on buying 11 Airbus A220’s to replace it aging fleet of Fokker F100 aircraft, thus enabling the carrier to have better profits and enhanced operations.

Please remember to provide a link to your source when stating facts.

Link to source:

Air Niugini chooses A220s to replace Fokker fleet

MCOflyer wrote:

According to simple flying Air Niugini plans on buying 11 Airbus A220’s to replace it aging fleet of Fokker F100 aircraft, thus enabling the carrier to have better profits and enhanced operations.

I'm very excited that they've chosen both the A221 and A223 for their order... Some love for the shorty, finally!
Although I was surprised to see them replace 13 Fokkers with just 11 aircraft.

AA737-823 wrote:

MCOflyer wrote:

According to simple flying Air Niugini plans on buying 11 Airbus A220’s to replace it aging fleet of Fokker F100 aircraft, thus enabling the carrier to have better profits and enhanced operations.

I'm very excited that they've chosen both the A221 and A223 for their order... Some love for the shorty, finally!
Although I was surprised to see them replace 13 Fokkers with just 11 aircraft.

Do any of the reports actual confirm they are taking both A221 and A223? All I've captured is that previously they were reported as looking at A221, A223, or E295 but that was before the selection announcement of A220 was made. It's not clear if they took one or the other or both or did I miss that?

yyztpa2 wrote:

AA737-823 wrote:

MCOflyer wrote:

According to simple flying Air Niugini plans on buying 11 Airbus A220’s to replace it aging fleet of Fokker F100 aircraft, thus enabling the carrier to have better profits and enhanced operations.

I'm very excited that they've chosen both the A221 and A223 for their order... Some love for the shorty, finally!
Although I was surprised to see them replace 13 Fokkers with just 11 aircraft.

Do any of the reports actual confirm they are taking both A221 and A223? All I've captured is that previously they were reported as looking at A221, A223, or E295 but that was before the selection announcement of A220 was made. It's not clear if they took one or the other or both or did I miss that?

In the ch-aviation article it does say:

"But while Duma [the minister who made the announcement] said the order would consist of both types, he did not give an exact breakdown by variant."

yyztpa2 wrote:

AA737-823 wrote:

MCOflyer wrote:

According to simple flying Air Niugini plans on buying 11 Airbus A220’s to replace it aging fleet of Fokker F100 aircraft, thus enabling the carrier to have better profits and enhanced operations.

I'm very excited that they've chosen both the A221 and A223 for their order... Some love for the shorty, finally!
Although I was surprised to see them replace 13 Fokkers with just 11 aircraft.

Do any of the reports actual confirm they are taking both A221 and A223? All I've captured is that previously they were reported as looking at A221, A223, or E295 but that was before the selection announcement of A220 was made. It's not clear if they took one or the other or both or did I miss that?

It was picked up, as the previous reply stated, from Duma's statement by OMAAT, but I haven't seen any guesses as far as breakdown:
http://onemileatatime.com/news/air-niugini-airbus-a220/

I haven't posted for a bit as I was honestly disappointed by the A220 sales (or lack thereof) at the Paris Airshow.
I am of the opinion that sales were constrained by lack of production. As the quote below shows, Airbus isn't able to meet current promise, much less expand. And yes, as a Pratt fan, I am very sad to know this is the engine's fault. We have delivered but parked A220 waiting on engine parts. That must be fixed to accelerate orders.

Warning, the cookies in this link are so obnoxious, I consider them a virus. OPEN IN INCOGNITO TAB ONLY!:
https://simpleflying.com/global-airbus- ... -may-2023/

yyztpa2 wrote:

Breeze is leasing a pair of A220-300 from Azorra Aviation in early 2024 to make up for delivery delays on its own order. These will be from the order of 20 A220-300 which Azorra made in early 2022. Azorra had also ordered a pair of ACJ TwoTwenty at the time.
https://airwaysmag.com/azorra-aviation- ... e-airways/

On one hand, this shows Breeze likes the A220 (there is nothing stopping them from expanding instead with more used E190s/E195s instead). The plane is well regarded. It is getting the parts to keep them flying. (Yes, same is true of the PW1100G on the A320, this is a Pratt supply chain issue that seems to effect all Pratt "PurePower" engine production).

rtwodtwo wrote:

oldJoe wrote:

The table above isn`t really accurate. I use Airbus O&D spreadsheet.
https://www.airbus.com/en/products-services/commercial-aircraft/market/orders-and-deliveries
Delta Air Lines should be 45 + 16 = 61
Swiss 9 + 21 = 30
Air France 25
Iraqi Airways 4
Air Manas from GTLK Europe
Air Senegal from Carlyle Aviation Partners
Leasing companies 12 + 173 = 185 orders
I also would prefer a new operator for the undiscloded 12 frames. Maybe we get some surprise ?

Thanks for the corrections. I forgot Carlyle Group. I recall Lightsaber mentioning 30+ operators to reach economy of scale (?? not sure the right term). By around mid 2024, we will be at 22 active operators, eight more to go.
This is why I like to commend Airbus's efforts in promoting A220 in the recent demo tours. They did 3 separate tours in South-East Asia. Hopefully the seeds of interest grow and bear lots of fruits in the near future.

2023-May: with airBaltic: Malaysia(Sarawak, Langkawi's Lima23), Indonesia(Jakarta), Thailand(Bangkok, Samui)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mKwtOvP6SI

2022-May: tour with airBaltic: Sidney, Singapore, Vietnam, Japan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8p7rGzdrto

2019-Dec: Airbus's own A220 as shown here in KL (Kuala Lumpur).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvnfFgLiink

The economy of scale is 20+ operators. Just the "rule of thumb" discussed in industry (I have no good link). But there is also a need for 600+ aircraft in service too. This is to ensure that every year a minimum batch of 25+ parts can be overhauled. Now Boeing paid vendors a fee to allow less than annual overhaul for the 717, but that requires airlines to stock 2 years and a few months of spares (an expense). Compare that to the 737/A320 vendors that must guarantee an overhaul of parts every six months (until the in service fleet drops below a few hundred heavy maintenance visits per year). So there are future economy of scale thresholds ahead (I think at about 2,000 related aircraft in service).

It is my opinion that by mid-2024, the A220 will have economy of scale to help move aircraft. I missed Qantas ordered 9 more. That means setting up a training center. This would enable sales to SE Asian airlines (e.g., Thai LCCs?)
https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... 220-routes

We already have training centers at Mirabel, Atlanta (via Delta), Ft. Lauderdale (JetBlue), Frankfurt (Lutfhansa), Latvia (Air Baltic), Paris (near CDG for Air France), and at EgyptAir. We're missing Asian training centers. So I am not surprised getting into that market has been a tough nut to crack. But it will happen.

https://www.flighttrainingalliance.com/locations/
https://flightacad.airfrance.fr/flighta ... cueil.html

I am sad those demo tours haven't resulted in orders. I think there are a few issues in getting the sales:
1. Delivery slots, heavily limited by engine deliveries.
2. Engine parts for in service aircraft.

We should see many more orders eventually. But with Parts expected to be short through 2024.
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 023-08-09/

That said, DL having ordered 131 (link below), Qantas increasing their order to 29, and Breeze leasing to expand at plan (link in 2nd quote above), there seems to be excellent top off order demand for the A220. In my opinion, Airbus sales will break a thousand A220 sales just over the current customer base. Now to get up production and expand the customer base. In particular, look how sparse sales to Asia have been. The Qantas order will help. I also expect we'll see a mid-East order. But first, start firming up the growing list of "non-firm" orders I see on Wikipedia.
https://news.delta.com/delta-exercises- ... ined-fleet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_A ... deliveries

Lightsaber

Lightsaber wrote :
But first, start firming up the growing list of "non-firm" orders ......

This one I hope gets firmed up. A nice little order it would be, isn`t it?
https://airwaysmag.com/air-niugini-selects-airbus-a220/

oldJoe wrote:

Lightsaber wrote :
But first, start firming up the growing list of "non-firm" orders ......

This one I hope gets firmed up. A nice little order it would be, isn`t it?
https://airwaysmag.com/air-niugini-selects-airbus-a220/

That is one of several I hope to see firmed. The reality is, only the larger airlines can afford to take risks on delivery timelines. For example, Delta airlines would barely notice if 2 aircraft short on deliveries with their massive fleet. Or Qantas is receiving 29 A223s fairly fast (see my prior links), but if they must keep say 5 or 6 B717s flying another few months, that is a contract cost dispute with Airbus. But these little airlines have less flexibility. I speculate they are not finalizing potential orders until they can get a better guarantee on delivery timeline.

That said, I really believe the top off orders (Delta, Qantas, Breeze) are indicators of demand for the A220.
That said, I wonder when Lufthansa group will order more. I think the answer is a year after Swiss can fly all of their A220s reliably (previously I posted a link on how as many as 8 could be grounded).
I would also like to know Air France's experience with the type. I fully expect a top off order from them.

Lightsaber