Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
mercure1 wrote:ITA will deploy the A220-100 to London City effective October.
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... city-route
ContinentalEWR wrote:[...]
So all in all, NY Area to FCO at peak will be 11 Daily Flights.
IADFCO wrote:ContinentalEWR wrote:[...]
So all in all, NY Area to FCO at peak will be 11 Daily Flights.
Only 11? Why not 15, or 20?
And a lousy overpriced UA seasonal flight from IAD, and maybe another by AZ which, if the past is any indication, assuming that it really starts, will operate for about 3 weeks before being discontinued.
LAXintl wrote:ITA board approves business plan proposal by Lufthansa
https://www.airlinerwatch.com/2023/03/i ... ative.html
A deal could be signed during a planned visit in mid April by German officials to Italy.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/i ... 023-03-30/
LAXPolaris wrote:
What will the implications be of ITA being part of Lufthasna? Will they become part of Star Alliance? And will say United be able to sell connections beyond FCO like they do with all the other Lufthasna airlines?
fraT wrote:LAXPolaris wrote:
What will the implications be of ITA being part of Lufthasna? Will they become part of Star Alliance? And will say United be able to sell connections beyond FCO like they do with all the other Lufthasna airlines?
Of course the plan is to have ITA switch from SkyTeam to *A ASAP and also to have all the JV partners of LHG putting their code on ITA flights and vice versa. The question of course is how quickly that will work. For SN, IIRC the integration into the UA/AC JV was done pretty quickly.
Since FCO is a huge O&D market, I doubt that there will be that much connecting traffic compared to FRA/MUC/ZRH/VIE/BRU - at least in the summer. MXP is probably better suited for that type of traffic.
ContinentalEWR wrote:NY Area to FCO at peak will be 11 Daily Flights.
IADFCO wrote:Only 11? Why not 15, or 20?
MartijnNL wrote:ContinentalEWR wrote:NY Area to FCO at peak will be 11 Daily Flights.IADFCO wrote:Only 11? Why not 15, or 20?
Only 11? I would say 11 daily flights is quite impressive.
Amsterdam Airport is bigger, busier and over 600 miles closer to the New York area than Rome Airport, but for some reason has 'only' six daily flights to New York JFK and Newark.
I know which flight I would take. The DL 767-400 of course.
DeltaMD95 wrote:Can’t wait for the finished A339 product. Certainly will be a beautiful looking airplane.
MartijnNL wrote:ContinentalEWR wrote:NY Area to FCO at peak will be 11 Daily Flights.IADFCO wrote:Only 11? Why not 15, or 20?
Only 11? I would say 11 daily flights is quite impressive.
Amsterdam Airport is bigger, busier and over 600 miles closer to the New York area than Rome Airport, but for some reason has 'only' six daily flights to New York JFK and Newark.
I know which flight I would take. The DL 767-400 of course.
AEROFAN wrote:MartijnNL wrote:ContinentalEWR wrote:NY Area to FCO at peak will be 11 Daily Flights.IADFCO wrote:Only 11? Why not 15, or 20?
Only 11? I would say 11 daily flights is quite impressive.
Amsterdam Airport is bigger, busier and over 600 miles closer to the New York area than Rome Airport, but for some reason has 'only' six daily flights to New York JFK and Newark.
I know which flight I would take. The DL 767-400 of course.
Is it the airport or the country that is the catalyst for the number of flights...
LAXPolaris wrote:fraT wrote:LAXPolaris wrote:
What will the implications be of ITA being part of Lufthasna? Will they become part of Star Alliance? And will say United be able to sell connections beyond FCO like they do with all the other Lufthasna airlines?
Of course the plan is to have ITA switch from SkyTeam to *A ASAP and also to have all the JV partners of LHG putting their code on ITA flights and vice versa. The question of course is how quickly that will work. For SN, IIRC the integration into the UA/AC JV was done pretty quickly.
Since FCO is a huge O&D market, I doubt that there will be that much connecting traffic compared to FRA/MUC/ZRH/VIE/BRU - at least in the summer. MXP is probably better suited for that type of traffic.
Appreciate the insight here! Is it realistic to think this deal would close before end of year 2023 and by summer 2024 ITA is integrated into Star Alliance and the UA JV?
Additionally, assuming this goes through, how do you think that changes UA's network on their own metal into Italy? I feel like there would be more year round service to FCO than just EWR, I assume IAD would likely be up first for an extension to year round, maybe ORD too. And then in terms of new routes, I feel like we could see IAD-MXP in the summer season, and maybe even a DEN-FCO summer seasonal as well? Can't wait to see how this develops!
MartijnNL wrote:ContinentalEWR wrote:NY Area to FCO at peak will be 11 Daily Flights.IADFCO wrote:Only 11? Why not 15, or 20?
Only 11? I would say 11 daily flights is quite impressive.
[...]
fraT wrote:LAXPolaris wrote:fraT wrote:
Of course the plan is to have ITA switch from SkyTeam to *A ASAP and also to have all the JV partners of LHG putting their code on ITA flights and vice versa. The question of course is how quickly that will work. For SN, IIRC the integration into the UA/AC JV was done pretty quickly.
Since FCO is a huge O&D market, I doubt that there will be that much connecting traffic compared to FRA/MUC/ZRH/VIE/BRU - at least in the summer. MXP is probably better suited for that type of traffic.
Appreciate the insight here! Is it realistic to think this deal would close before end of year 2023 and by summer 2024 ITA is integrated into Star Alliance and the UA JV?
Additionally, assuming this goes through, how do you think that changes UA's network on their own metal into Italy? I feel like there would be more year round service to FCO than just EWR, I assume IAD would likely be up first for an extension to year round, maybe ORD too. And then in terms of new routes, I feel like we could see IAD-MXP in the summer season, and maybe even a DEN-FCO summer seasonal as well? Can't wait to see how this develops!
I am not sure how quick an alliance switch could be done.
Regarding UA (and AC), I see a real possibility to add service to Italy, both seasonal and year-round. Same for AC when they will receive the 321 XLR and can free some widebodies.LHG is already very strong in Italy (own flights plus Air Dolomiti). Let's see how they can increase the traffic.
IADFCO wrote:Since my comment has been quoted at least twice, maybe I should have made it clearer that it was 200% sarcastic.
SXDFC wrote:If the plan does indeed go though, isn’t LH going to revive the AZ name?
IADFCO wrote:MartijnNL wrote:ContinentalEWR wrote:NY Area to FCO at peak will be 11 Daily Flights.IADFCO wrote:Only 11? Why not 15, or 20?
Only 11? I would say 11 daily flights is quite impressive.
[...]
Since my comment has been quoted at least twice, maybe I should have made it clearer that it was 200% sarcastic.
ITA keeps adding flights to NYC. Certainly NYC as a whole is a far bigger market than IAD. It is also true that for the average Italian the US begins and ends at NYC. But here we are comparing the potential load factor of a 2nd FCO-IAD flight (the only flight when the seasonal UA is off) with that of the 11th FCO-EWR/JFK flight.
Yes, an IAD-FCO flight has been announced, but I'll believe it when I'm able to place my posterior in an actual seat twice, six months apart.
MartijnNL wrote:IADFCO wrote:Since my comment has been quoted at least twice, maybe I should have made it clearer that it was 200% sarcastic.
Ah, I see your point now. Sorry I didn't get it right away.
Speedy752 wrote:I don’t understand how an airline that’s supposed to turn around the performance from Alitalia can go out and buy the Airbus starter pack from lessors and expect to turn around their finances. What structurally have they done since formation that makes their fate different from Alitalia?
AEROFAN wrote:DeltaMD95 wrote:Can’t wait for the finished A339 product. Certainly will be a beautiful looking airplane.
No it will not. The ITA livery is a disgrace.
dcajet wrote:ITA has outlined the first 4 cities that will see A339 service from FCO, beginning gradually from 1JUN23.
* Delhi
* Miami
* New York JFK
* Sao Paulo GRU
https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230312-az339
jfk777 wrote:dcajet wrote:ITA has outlined the first 4 cities that will see A339 service from FCO, beginning gradually from 1JUN23.
* Delhi
* Miami
* New York JFK
* Sao Paulo GRU
https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230312-az339
With the A330-900 flying to these currently heavy A350-900 cities where is ITA expanding their A350 flights ? More LAX & SFO ? Singapore or Hong Kong ? Johannesburg would be nice to see flown ?
More flights to Japan.
JannEejit wrote:AEROFAN wrote:DeltaMD95 wrote:Can’t wait for the finished A339 product. Certainly will be a beautiful looking airplane.
No it will not. The ITA livery is a disgrace.
I understand how some traditionalists might not like the change from Alitalia but the ITA livery is hardly "a disgrace". It's one of the most talked about livery's currently.
airsmiles wrote:JannEejit wrote:AEROFAN wrote:
No it will not. The ITA livery is a disgrace.
I understand how some traditionalists might not like the change from Alitalia but the ITA livery is hardly "a disgrace". It's one of the most talked about livery's currently.
A livery being talked about isn’t necessarily a compliment or show any approval either! I suspect it’s a livery that falls into two camps - love it or hate it, with not many in between. At least it’s not one of those appalling ‘euro white’ liveries.
LAXintl wrote:Looks like Alitalia brand may come back. CEO says they are studying a few projects on how to return the brand to the market.
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... -ita-chief
LAXintl wrote:Looks like Alitalia brand may come back. CEO says they are studying a few projects on how to return the brand to the market.
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... -ita-chief
dcajet wrote:LAXintl wrote:Looks like Alitalia brand may come back. CEO says they are studying a few projects on how to return the brand to the market.
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... -ita-chief
Hmmm... I thought that dropping the Alitalia brand was an EU requirement as a condition for one of the loans that made ITA possible. I wondered what has changed or if the LH investment changes previous requirements. Never a boring moment with this saga.
AMP44 wrote:dcajet wrote:LAXintl wrote:Looks like Alitalia brand may come back. CEO says they are studying a few projects on how to return the brand to the market.
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... -ita-chief
Hmmm... I thought that dropping the Alitalia brand was an EU requirement as a condition for one of the loans that made ITA possible. I wondered what has changed or if the LH investment changes previous requirements. Never a boring moment with this saga.
EU didn't want "old" Alitalia to simply restructure and become "new" Alitalia - which they did on the previous restructures. ITA purchased the Alitalia brand name at a price the EU was happy with, so they could operate the planes they took over before they got repainted.
They have to use the name to keep the trademark to the "Alitalia" name, or anyone else could snatch it and use it.
From an article a while back LH (I think?) said that the Alitalia brand would be used for premium markets and ITA for the rest. That would be very similar to Lufthansa/Eurowings, and SWISS/Edelweiss.