777luver wrote:

EdmFlyBoi wrote:

777luver wrote:

The lack of capacity is really affecting AC I think. They prob have zero flex in their fleet to take that airplane out and fix it so maybe they are waiting for a heavy check to fix those cabin issues. Not a good look though

There is no question that AC needs lift. The fleet is being stretched with the increase in travel. Combined with the shortage of interior fittings that seems to be an ongoing issue, there will likely be oddball aircraft with interiors that aren't at the dream cabin standard for this summer season (and maybe beyond).

Exactly. They need lift and they needed it yesterday so to speak. Flights are really really full these days and it doesn’t seem likely that they’ll get a breath until 2024 with the A321s. These 3 787s can’t come fast enough

dr1980 wrote:

Reading through the Air Canada PDF timetable was interesting, I haven’t seen one of those in many years! It was interesting how many destinations are listed out of YHZ that involve a connection in EWR.

Clearly making use of that recently reestablished YHZ-EWR flight but I’m not sure how convenient that would be in real life? My brain would always default to a YUL connection or YYZ to avoid a third country.

skipness1E wrote:

The 40th aircraft was orignally intended for WestJet though? But has been built and fitted out for Air Canada as WestJet cancelled it a while back. Basically just re-allocated line nos. Isn't that true?

flyyul wrote:

Let me debunk the rumours. Air Canada did not and has not picked up WestJet 787s. These are the 3 orders of 787s that were completed and executed 18 months ago to bring the fleet to 40 787s by 2024.

Could we please cool the unfounded rumour mill here.

runway23 wrote:

flyyul wrote:

Let me debunk the rumours. Air Canada did not and has not picked up WestJet 787s. These are the 3 orders of 787s that were completed and executed 18 months ago to bring the fleet to 40 787s by 2024.

Could we please cool the unfounded rumour mill here.

In a way it's a pity this isn't true. I'd really like to see AC pick up some distressed/used 787s in the way you've done in growing the A330 fleet.

There were some rumours a few months ago, that these 787s might come with a slightly different (improved) business class (doors??). I suppose those rumours are unfounded too ?

flyyul wrote:

skipness1E wrote:

The 40th aircraft was orignally intended for WestJet though? But has been built and fitted out for Air Canada as WestJet cancelled it a while back. Basically just re-allocated line nos. Isn't that true?

No simply not true.

CrewBunk wrote:

MartijnNL wrote:

krisyyz wrote:

...window dimming buttons not working...

So passengers could enjoy the view unobstructed? Sounds great. Or was the crew still able to lock them in their darkest setting?

I keep hearing about supply chain shortages with regard to cabin fittings. As it appears the window dimming controls are one weak area, it’s not surprising therefore, that there are some aircraft flying around with that function disabled with parts on back order.

As it’s the button that breaks and not the function, I’m guessing the Flight Attendants still have control from their panel.

skipness1E wrote:

flyyul wrote:

skipness1E wrote:

The 40th aircraft was orignally intended for WestJet though? But has been built and fitted out for Air Canada as WestJet cancelled it a while back. Basically just re-allocated line nos. Isn't that true?

No simply not true.

OKaaay so what line no was the last NTU WestJet B787? I am not suggesting Air Canada didn't order 40 and this aircraft isn't being built to a standard Air Canada spec, I just asked if the line no they are getting was originally heading for WestJet.

flyyul wrote:

Let me debunk the rumours. Air Canada did not and has not picked up WestJet 787s. These are the 3 orders of 787s that were completed and executed 18 months ago to bring the fleet to 40 787s by 2024.

Could we please cool the unfounded rumour mill here.

krisyyz wrote:

CrewBunk wrote:

MartijnNL wrote:

So passengers could enjoy the view unobstructed? Sounds great. Or was the crew still able to lock them in their darkest setting?

I keep hearing about supply chain shortages with regard to cabin fittings. As it appears the window dimming controls are one weak area, it’s not surprising therefore, that there are some aircraft flying around with that function disabled with parts on back order.

As it’s the button that breaks and not the function, I’m guessing the Flight Attendants still have control from their panel.

Yes exactly. From my experience, you could darken the window, but the light button didn’t work. The FAs could still control it as they locked the windows dark at one point in the flight, and made them all undimmed before landing.

When would an AC 788 undergo heavy checks?



KrisYYZ

yzfElite wrote:

krisyyz wrote:

CrewBunk wrote:

I keep hearing about supply chain shortages with regard to cabin fittings. As it appears the window dimming controls are one weak area, it’s not surprising therefore, that there are some aircraft flying around with that function disabled with parts on back order.

As it’s the button that breaks and not the function, I’m guessing the Flight Attendants still have control from their panel.

Yes exactly. From my experience, you could darken the window, but the light button didn’t work. The FAs could still control it as they locked the windows dark at one point in the flight, and made them all undimmed before landing.

When would an AC 788 undergo heavy checks?



KrisYYZ

I recall reading somewhere that a 787 only requires a D check every 12 years, significantly longer than the checks that were required every ~6 years for say a 767.

EdmFlyBoi wrote:

yzfElite wrote:

krisyyz wrote:

Yes exactly. From my experience, you could darken the window, but the light button didn’t work. The FAs could still control it as they locked the windows dark at one point in the flight, and made them all undimmed before landing.

When would an AC 788 undergo heavy checks?



KrisYYZ

I recall reading somewhere that a 787 only requires a D check every 12 years, significantly longer than the checks that were required every ~6 years for say a 767.

The first 788 also has the oldest dream cabin in the fleet (almost 9 years old). There has been rumours that the XLR will get an updated J seat but those are just rumours (is my understanding). The A330's have brand new cabins that are the same as the first 788 so it seems unlikely that there will a change to the seat being used in the J cabin anytime soon. The Super Diamond seat is a pretty competitive seat, despite not having doors. The best J seats at present are arguably ANA, Qatar, and the new Air France seat, but AC doesn't compete with these airlines on routes that have those airlines newest seats.

Q400 wrote:

Just noticed on the Canadian Civil Aircraft Register website, AC registered a 777-300ER, s/n 35256 as C-FITL back on Feb. 3, 2023, which was the first 777-3000ER (FIN 731) they took delivery of back in 2007 but was returned to lessor in 11/2021.

Does anyone know if AC is indeed bringing this aircraft back to its fleet?

EdmFlyBoi wrote:

The first 788 also has the oldest dream cabin in the fleet (almost 9 years old). There has been rumours that the XLR will get an updated J seat but those are just rumours (is my understanding). The A330's have brand new cabins that are the same as the first 788 so it seems unlikely that there will a change to the seat being used in the J cabin anytime soon. The Super Diamond seat is a pretty competitive seat, despite not having doors. The best J seats at present are arguably ANA, Qatar, and the new Air France seat, but AC doesn't compete with these airlines on routes that have those airlines newest seats.

Q400 wrote:

Just noticed on the Canadian Civil Aircraft Register website, AC registered a 777-300ER, s/n 35256 as C-FITL back on Feb. 3, 2023, which was the first 777-3000ER (FIN 731) they took delivery of back in 2007 but was returned to lessor in 11/2021.

Does anyone know if AC is indeed bringing this aircraft back to its fleet?

EdmFlyBoi wrote:

Q400 wrote:

Just noticed on the Canadian Civil Aircraft Register website, AC registered a 777-300ER, s/n 35256 as C-FITL back on Feb. 3, 2023, which was the first 777-3000ER (FIN 731) they took delivery of back in 2007 but was returned to lessor in 11/2021.

Does anyone know if AC is indeed bringing this aircraft back to its fleet?

It is already back in the fleet.

Whiteguy wrote:

EdmFlyBoi wrote:

Q400 wrote:

Just noticed on the Canadian Civil Aircraft Register website, AC registered a 777-300ER, s/n 35256 as C-FITL back on Feb. 3, 2023, which was the first 777-3000ER (FIN 731) they took delivery of back in 2007 but was returned to lessor in 11/2021.

Does anyone know if AC is indeed bringing this aircraft back to its fleet?

It is already back in the fleet.

On paper, it’s still parked in MZJ for now….

Whiteguy wrote:

EdmFlyBoi wrote:

Q400 wrote:

Just noticed on the Canadian Civil Aircraft Register website, AC registered a 777-300ER, s/n 35256 as C-FITL back on Feb. 3, 2023, which was the first 777-3000ER (FIN 731) they took delivery of back in 2007 but was returned to lessor in 11/2021.

Does anyone know if AC is indeed bringing this aircraft back to its fleet?

It is already back in the fleet.

On paper, it’s still parked in MZJ for now….

stollhair wrote:

Whiteguy wrote:

EdmFlyBoi wrote:

It is already back in the fleet.

On paper, it’s still parked in MZJ for now….

C-FITL is completing its return to service checks then will be going to the paint hangar in the next few days.

chrisa330 wrote:

EdmFlyBoi wrote:

The first 788 also has the oldest dream cabin in the fleet (almost 9 years old). There has been rumours that the XLR will get an updated J seat but those are just rumours (is my understanding). The A330's have brand new cabins that are the same as the first 788 so it seems unlikely that there will a change to the seat being used in the J cabin anytime soon. The Super Diamond seat is a pretty competitive seat, despite not having doors. The best J seats at present are arguably ANA, Qatar, and the new Air France seat, but AC doesn't compete with these airlines on routes that have those airlines newest seats.

I'm pretty sure Lucie mentioned on one of the Analyst calls following the order announcement that the XLRs will have a new product. I haven't heard anything since then.

Acey wrote:

Any chance they split the fleet and some portion of the 40 frames don't have lie-flats and are 16J/174Y like their ceo?

Acey wrote:

Any chance they split the fleet and some portion of the 40 frames don't have lie-flats and are 16J/174Y like their ceo?

Acey wrote:

Any chance they split the fleet and some portion of the 40 frames don't have lie-flats and are 16J/174Y like their ceo?

Acey wrote:

Yeah I guess I'm just wondering if there will be direct replacement for the ceo. I too was thinking MAX 10.

krisyyz wrote:

There is an AC 77W scheduled to depart MZJ to GUS tomorrow.

KrisYYZ

777luver wrote:

[twoid][/twoid]

Acey wrote:

Yeah I guess I'm just wondering if there will be direct replacement for the ceo. I too was thinking MAX 10.

They plan on refurbishing the current A321s

Magnum9 wrote:

krisyyz wrote:

There is an AC 77W scheduled to depart MZJ to GUS tomorrow.

KrisYYZ

Interesting. Why would AC be sending a 77W out of storage and to a US Air Force base in Indiana (GUS)? Do they perform civilian maintenance at military bases?

ikolkyo wrote:

Magnum9 wrote:

krisyyz wrote:

There is an AC 77W scheduled to depart MZJ to GUS tomorrow.

KrisYYZ

Interesting. Why would AC be sending a 77W out of storage and to a US Air Force base in Indiana (GUS)? Do they perform civilian maintenance at military bases?

Perhaps a military charter right off the bat? Unless the Air Force only deals with US airlines, which wouldn't surprise me.

Acey wrote:

777luver wrote:

[twoid][/twoid]

Acey wrote:

Yeah I guess I'm just wondering if there will be direct replacement for the ceo. I too was thinking MAX 10.

They plan on refurbishing the current A321s

That's not my question. Yes they've said multiple times they're refreshing the ceo, the question is the cabin config and whether or not there will be a subfleet of XLR without lie-flats which could possibly make sense given the large number of frames.

Acey wrote:

"What are they replacing the ceo with?"
"They are refurbishing them"

The oldest 321 is 21 years old. They can and are refurbishing them, but obviously they will have to be replaced in the medium term.

So AC is either,

a) replacing them one for one with lie-flat XLR when the time comes, which marks something of a change in transcon strategy given that the ceo doesn't have lie-flats
b) ordering something else to replace them like a ~195-seat 7MJ without lie-flats
c) configuring a subfleet of the incoming XLR without lie-flats

Option A seems most likely.

drgmobile wrote:

Why would they even be thinking of replacing them yet?

Acey wrote:

drgmobile wrote:

Why would they even be thinking of replacing them yet?

Because an airline doesn't wake up on retirement day for an airframe and make plans to replace it on that day.

God forbid they plan ahead of time and are thinking of future direction for their 21-year-old frames. I did say "medium term" which you may have missed, and that sufficiently covers the fact that they are not imminently going anywhere given that they are soon beginning refurbishment.

Polot wrote:

Replacement will probably be a new RFP playing off Airbus and Boeing with A321neo (nonXLR) vs Max10.

Polot wrote:

Acey wrote:

drgmobile wrote:

Why would they even be thinking of replacing them yet?

Because an airline doesn't wake up on retirement day for an airframe and make plans to replace it on that day.

God forbid they plan ahead of time and are thinking of future direction for their 21-year-old frames. I did say "medium term" which you may have missed, and that sufficiently covers the fact that they are not imminently going anywhere given that they are soon beginning refurbishment.

Replacement will probably be a new RFP playing off Airbus and Boeing with A321neo (nonXLR) vs Max10.

keesje wrote:

Polot wrote:

Acey wrote:

Because an airline doesn't wake up on retirement day for an airframe and make plans to replace it on that day.

God forbid they plan ahead of time and are thinking of future direction for their 21-year-old frames. I did say "medium term" which you may have missed, and that sufficiently covers the fact that they are not imminently going anywhere given that they are soon beginning refurbishment.

Replacement will probably be a new RFP playing off Airbus and Boeing with A321neo (nonXLR) vs Max10.

AC are probably getting A321NEO's aren't they? https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/a ... 83497.html

jspams20 wrote:

keesje wrote:

Polot wrote:

Replacement will probably be a new RFP playing off Airbus and Boeing with A321neo (nonXLR) vs Max10.

AC are probably getting A321NEO's aren't they? https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/a ... 83497.html

Yes those are XLR aircrafts. The question is, will they rotate through domestic rotations enough to cover the CEO retirements or are they going to do a follow up order of non-xlr’s with a domestic interior.

keesje wrote:

jspams20 wrote:

keesje wrote:

AC are probably getting A321NEO's aren't they? https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/a ... 83497.html

Yes those are XLR aircrafts. The question is, will they rotate through domestic rotations enough to cover the CEO retirements or are they going to do a follow up order of non-xlr’s with a domestic interior.

Probably the XLR's will have sleeping seats, which will be a waste of space domestically.
Long term having 1 type offers flexibility, but you probably pay a price for the XLR's.

So Airbus pricing in relation to standardization / long term flexibility to convert will play a role.
I know NWA 757s were reconfigured for Atlantic after first flying domestic for over a decade.

drgmobile wrote:

Acey wrote:

"What are they replacing the ceo with?"
"They are refurbishing them"

The oldest 321 is 21 years old. They can and are refurbishing them, but obviously they will have to be replaced in the medium term.

So AC is either,

a) replacing them one for one with lie-flat XLR when the time comes, which marks something of a change in transcon strategy given that the ceo doesn't have lie-flats
b) ordering something else to replace them like a ~195-seat 7MJ without lie-flats
c) configuring a subfleet of the incoming XLR without lie-flats

Option A seems most likely.

I think the most likely option is d) none of the above. Why would they even be thinking of replacing them yet? They're not that old! But they look old inside and need to be refurbished.

keesje wrote:

Probably the XLR's will have sleeping seats, which will be a waste of space domestically.

Acey wrote:

keesje wrote:

Probably the XLR's will have sleeping seats, which will be a waste of space domestically.

Of course, but we all know how AC is. The XLR with lie-flats is going to end up on YYC/YVR/YEG-YYZ to some degree.

In the dead of winter, will they find Europe flying from YYZ, YUL and YHZ for 30 frames? I can't imagine so.

Lamp1009 wrote:

drgmobile wrote:

Acey wrote:

"What are they replacing the ceo with?"
"They are refurbishing them"

The oldest 321 is 21 years old. They can and are refurbishing them, but obviously they will have to be replaced in the medium term.

So AC is either,

a) replacing them one for one with lie-flat XLR when the time comes, which marks something of a change in transcon strategy given that the ceo doesn't have lie-flats
b) ordering something else to replace them like a ~195-seat 7MJ without lie-flats
c) configuring a subfleet of the incoming XLR without lie-flats

Option A seems most likely.

I think the most likely option is d) none of the above. Why would they even be thinking of replacing them yet? They're not that old! But they look old inside and need to be refurbished.

This is not going to happen. The a321 line is backed up for nearly a decade and the 737 line is going to be in the same situation in the next few years. Boeing is already talking about opening up a 4th 737 line. AC most definitely has to plan for the future here. They don’t just have mainline a321s to worry about either.

Acey wrote:

drgmobile wrote:

Why would they even be thinking of replacing them yet?

Because an airline doesn't wake up on retirement day for an airframe and make plans to replace it on that day.

God forbid they plan ahead of time and are thinking of future direction for their 21-year-old frames. I did say "medium term" which you may have missed, and that sufficiently covers the fact that they are not imminently going anywhere given that they are soon beginning refurbishment.