Welcome to the American Airlines Network thread - 2023 edition.

Please continue to post your news and discussions below.

Link to the locked 2022 edition:
viewtopic.php?t=1468675

Looks like there was an accident involving a Piedmont employee working around an Envoy EMB 175 at Montgomery Airport. Not a good way to end or start the year.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/montgomery-a ... 05312.html

Technically, it's not a good way to end 2022.

Can somebody explain to me why ALL flights outbound and inbound were grounded for the entire airport? I mean, this is tragic, but it seems a severe overreaction given that it's not reported the death was due to a shooting or other security-related incident.

cathay747 wrote:

Can somebody explain to me why ALL flights outbound and inbound were grounded for the entire airport? I mean, this is tragic, but it seems a severe overreaction given that it's not reported the death was due to a shooting or other security-related incident.

It might have been because all the airport fire equipment/rescue crews were attending to the ramp accident and were not available to respond to any other emergency had another one happened.

Seems like an overreaction. It's tragic, but from the sound of it, there want much for the first responder crews to do.

Aircraft was at the gate, worker walked in front of the running engine...

https://www.al.com/news/2023/01/america ... -ntsb.html

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

looks like someone started a dedicated thread to the accident an hour after I posted it here..

What is the likelihood for American to expand their international footprint out of SEA? I know they were planning on BLR and PVG prior to covid, but do they have the equipment now to do it?

You think AA will start SEA or DFW-CAN to feed CZ once China reopens and there are no more hurdles?

Prost wrote:

What is the likelihood for American to expand their international footprint out of SEA? I know they were planning on BLR and PVG prior to covid, but do they have the equipment now to do it?

BLR is on indefinite hold until the airspace tensions over Russia improve.

AA has been pretty public that they will be less exposed Internationally for 2023 concentrating on partner hubs so I wouldn't expect that they will add much in the way of "exotic" locales.

AA adding ELP-JFK nonstop service is a possibility with the lack of NYC-ELP nonstop service being one of the biggest holes in both markets.

The PDEW of ELP-NYC was 138 passengers/day in Q2 2022, and AA was carrying more of the ELP-JFK connecting traffic than DL, UA, or WN in Q2 2022.

If AA ELP-JFK nonstop service is added, AA would also have some connecting traffic to New England and Europe on ELP-JFK nonstop flights in addition to ELP-JFK O&D.

There are also a few destinations with AA nonstop service out of LGA/JFK that don't currently have any nonstop service out of NYC on other airlines, including FCA, MTY, GIG, and TUL.

ELP also isn't currently served by either B6 or NK.

rjbesikof wrote:

You think AA will start SEA or DFW-CAN to feed CZ once China reopens and there are no more hurdles?

Why would AA bother with CAN when they still have not returned properly to bigger markets like Beijing and Shanghai?

Anyhow, AA always planned to connect and feed CZ via Beijing Daxing, not CAN.

jplatts wrote:

AA adding ELP-JFK nonstop service is a possibility with the lack of NYC-ELP nonstop service being one of the biggest holes in both markets.

The PDEW of ELP-NYC was 138 passengers/day in Q2 2022, and AA was carrying more of the ELP-JFK connecting traffic than DL, UA, or WN in Q2 2022.

If AA ELP-JFK nonstop service is added, AA would also have some connecting traffic to New England and Europe on ELP-JFK nonstop flights in addition to ELP-JFK O&D.

There are also a few destinations with AA nonstop service out of LGA/JFK that don't currently have any nonstop service out of NYC on other airlines, including FCA, MTY, GIG, and TUL.

ELP also isn't currently served by either B6 or NK.

I’d expect Q3 and Q4 PDEW on ELP-NYC to be much higher given the border situation…

rrichard38 wrote:

jplatts wrote:

AA adding ELP-JFK nonstop service is a possibility with the lack of NYC-ELP nonstop service being one of the biggest holes in both markets.

The PDEW of ELP-NYC was 138 passengers/day in Q2 2022, and AA was carrying more of the ELP-JFK connecting traffic than DL, UA, or WN in Q2 2022.

If AA ELP-JFK nonstop service is added, AA would also have some connecting traffic to New England and Europe on ELP-JFK nonstop flights in addition to ELP-JFK O&D.

There are also a few destinations with AA nonstop service out of LGA/JFK that don't currently have any nonstop service out of NYC on other airlines, including FCA, MTY, GIG, and TUL.

ELP also isn't currently served by either B6 or NK.

I’d expect Q3 and Q4 PDEW on ELP-NYC to be much higher given the border situation…

Not to go non-av but will say a good percentage of those folks cannot fly as they don't have any ID at all so not sure how much of a driver that will be. Uncle Sam drives a lot of ELP traffic, but he runs his own airline also lol

FlyingSicilian wrote:

rrichard38 wrote:

jplatts wrote:

AA adding ELP-JFK nonstop service is a possibility with the lack of NYC-ELP nonstop service being one of the biggest holes in both markets.

The PDEW of ELP-NYC was 138 passengers/day in Q2 2022, and AA was carrying more of the ELP-JFK connecting traffic than DL, UA, or WN in Q2 2022.

If AA ELP-JFK nonstop service is added, AA would also have some connecting traffic to New England and Europe on ELP-JFK nonstop flights in addition to ELP-JFK O&D.

There are also a few destinations with AA nonstop service out of LGA/JFK that don't currently have any nonstop service out of NYC on other airlines, including FCA, MTY, GIG, and TUL.

ELP also isn't currently served by either B6 or NK.

I’d expect Q3 and Q4 PDEW on ELP-NYC to be much higher given the border situation…

Not to go non-av but will say a good percentage of those folks cannot fly as they don't have any ID at all so not sure how much of a driver that will be. Uncle Sam drives a lot of ELP traffic, but he runs his own airline also lol

Refugees certainly do fly commercial too. PHX-CLT and PHX-MIA every morning usually has 10-20 unaccompanied minors that are all refugees.

I don't see ELP-NYC ever happening though - ELP isn't a high yielding market and it chews up a lot of aircraft time from NYC. If JFK-TUS didn't work, ELP stands less of a chance.

alasizon wrote:

FlyingSicilian wrote:

rrichard38 wrote:

I’d expect Q3 and Q4 PDEW on ELP-NYC to be much higher given the border situation…

Not to go non-av but will say a good percentage of those folks cannot fly as they don't have any ID at all so not sure how much of a driver that will be. Uncle Sam drives a lot of ELP traffic, but he runs his own airline also lol

Refugees certainly do fly commercial too. PHX-CLT and PHX-MIA every morning usually has 10-20 unaccompanied minors that are all refugees.

I don't see ELP-NYC ever happening though - ELP isn't a high yielding market and it chews up a lot of aircraft time from NYC. If JFK-TUS didn't work, ELP stands less of a chance.

Those are issued travel documents by Uncle Sam, 1,000s in ELP have none and there is not even close to enough government capacity to issue them all . Now there are special charters running so ELP will see those. Not sure it helps AA.

AA do a good job of running that traffic via DFW now with no backtracking needed. GSA contract city pair flights also do not have to be nonstop so AA can always get that work with the right bids.

FlyingSicilian wrote:

rrichard38 wrote:

jplatts wrote:

AA adding ELP-JFK nonstop service is a possibility with the lack of NYC-ELP nonstop service being one of the biggest holes in both markets.

The PDEW of ELP-NYC was 138 passengers/day in Q2 2022, and AA was carrying more of the ELP-JFK connecting traffic than DL, UA, or WN in Q2 2022.

If AA ELP-JFK nonstop service is added, AA would also have some connecting traffic to New England and Europe on ELP-JFK nonstop flights in addition to ELP-JFK O&D.

There are also a few destinations with AA nonstop service out of LGA/JFK that don't currently have any nonstop service out of NYC on other airlines, including FCA, MTY, GIG, and TUL.

ELP also isn't currently served by either B6 or NK.

I’d expect Q3 and Q4 PDEW on ELP-NYC to be much higher given the border situation…

Not to go non-av but will say a good percentage of those folks cannot fly as they don't have any ID at all so not sure how much of a driver that will be. Uncle Sam drives a lot of ELP traffic, but he runs his own airline also lol

Anybody can fly without ID. You will have enhanced security screening.

rrichard38 wrote:

jplatts wrote:

AA adding ELP-JFK nonstop service is a possibility with the lack of NYC-ELP nonstop service being one of the biggest holes in both markets.

The PDEW of ELP-NYC was 138 passengers/day in Q2 2022, and AA was carrying more of the ELP-JFK connecting traffic than DL, UA, or WN in Q2 2022.

If AA ELP-JFK nonstop service is added, AA would also have some connecting traffic to New England and Europe on ELP-JFK nonstop flights in addition to ELP-JFK O&D.

There are also a few destinations with AA nonstop service out of LGA/JFK that don't currently have any nonstop service out of NYC on other airlines, including FCA, MTY, GIG, and TUL.

ELP also isn't currently served by either B6 or NK.

I’d expect Q3 and Q4 PDEW on ELP-NYC to be much higher given the border situation…

Highly unlikely we'll see any nonstop between ELP and the NYC area and certainly not on AA metal. It's a long sector, ties up a plane for hours, and for a very low yielding market. All the connecting traffic that originates or ends in ELP will continue to go through DFW, IAH, etc...

MAH4546 wrote:

FlyingSicilian wrote:

rrichard38 wrote:

I’d expect Q3 and Q4 PDEW on ELP-NYC to be much higher given the border situation…

Not to go non-av but will say a good percentage of those folks cannot fly as they don't have any ID at all so not sure how much of a driver that will be. Uncle Sam drives a lot of ELP traffic, but he runs his own airline also lol

Anybody can fly without ID. You will have enhanced security screening.

Mark, Not at ELP where CBP has officers stationed next to the document checker and literally pulls people out of the line if undocumented.

Also the normal process is still to verify identity through the credit verification a system TSA uses which most immigrant a will not have
That can be waived but CBP actively checks at CBP (and has for years though it is near 24-7 now). Regardless that still will not help AA numbers in a material way.

Are they planning to make CVG into another AUS or BOS type operation?

LongLayover wrote:

Are they planning to make CVG into another AUS or BOS type operation?

No. CVG is a mostly regional operation for AA and CVG just barely regained ML service to CLT.

AUS and CVG are the story of two very different metros.

LongLayover wrote:

Are they planning to make CVG into another AUS or BOS type operation?

Why would they?

LongLayover wrote:

Are they planning to make CVG into another AUS or BOS type operation?

I don't see CVG becoming an AA hub. BOS isn't a major AA hub but will remain at least a focus city for AA, facing tough competition against JetBlue and Delta in both BOS and JFK. So in order for AA to remain competitive in BOS again these two major players, B6 and DL, I think that they should consider selling seats on their BOS-LAX nonstop, as three-class layout, like they have on JFK-LAX/SFO. JetBlue has its Mint product, and Delta has its Delta One product. Wouldn't that be an interesting move for American to remain competitive on that market? Sure there are a lot of business people traveling between New York and Los Angeles, but between Boston and Los Angeles also there is a lot of business travel.

American 767 wrote:

LongLayover wrote:

Are they planning to make CVG into another AUS or BOS type operation?

I think that they should consider selling seats on their BOS-LAX nonstop, as three-class layout, like they have on JFK-LAX/SFO.

They already do.

American 767 wrote:

LongLayover wrote:

Are they planning to make CVG into another AUS or BOS type operation?

I don't see CVG becoming an AA hub.

AA has no need for an AUS-type or BOS-type operation at CVG with the hubs that AA already has at CLT/ORD/LGA/JFK/PHL/DCA along with AA already having the ability to connect passengers to the East Coast from the Midwest and South through AA hubs.

Most of the top markets traveled to from CVG that don't currently have AA nonstop service out of CVG also already have nonstop service out of CVG on other airlines.

AA adding CVG-LAX nonstop service is a possibility with LAX being the only AA hub that doesn't have AA nonstop service out of CVG, and the possibility of AA adding CVG-LAX nonstop service was mentioned in an Cincinnati Business Courier article that was behind a paywall at https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/ ... -push.html.

AA adding a second daily nonstop to PHX from CVG is also a possibility with AA currently operating more than 1 daily nonstop to PHX from BOS/DTW/IND/EWR/MCO/TPA in addition to AA's ORD/JFK/PHL/DCA/CLT/MIA hubs.

AA also does have opportunities to upgauge some of its CVG-CLT/ORD/MIA/LGA/PHL/DCA nonstop flights to mainline with the bigger FF base that AA will likely have in the CVG market with AA's partner BA starting CVG-LHR nonstop service in June 2023.

Yeah, I don't get the love affair with CVG. It's the 30th largest MSMA in the United States, and I'd think there are a lot better targets for growth. Even STL is bigger and we know how that ended up.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

USAirALB wrote:

American 767 wrote:

LongLayover wrote:

Are they planning to make CVG into another AUS or BOS type operation?

I think that they should consider selling seats on their BOS-LAX nonstop, as three-class layout, like they have on JFK-LAX/SFO.

They already do.

What’s frustrating is they do not fly BOS-SFO at all, let alone on the 321T. Would love to see that add as someone who heads to SFO often with connecting options via BOS or JFK. B6 and UA both offer lie flats on this route, and DL and AS are also on the route but without lie flats.

USAirALB wrote:

American 767 wrote:

LongLayover wrote:

Are they planning to make CVG into another AUS or BOS type operation?

I think that they should consider selling seats on their BOS-LAX nonstop, as three-class layout, like they have on JFK-LAX/SFO.

They already do.

Yes you're right. Twice daily. Thank you. I didn't know. I just checked on aa.com and I found out. I never knew BOS-LAX nonstop was three-class service.

First time poster on the AA thread - quick questions for the experts. It was discussed in the Aussie thread about AA picking up more Australia flying, potentially DFW-BNE - but I vaguely recall there is an issue with AA crew doing ULH fly ( think it was cabin crew) and DFW-AU is just too far. Can anyone remind me if this is correct, or if I’ve got it completely wrong.

AA's longest flight pre-COVID was AA125 DFW-HKG 16-17 hours west-bound. DFW-BNE is a little less than that with QF flying the longest AU-US sectors (SYD/MEL-DFW) and AA the shortest (AKL/BNE-DFW). AKL has been launched and AA maybe flying BNE-DFW.

Team letter from COO David Seymour looking back on the airlines strong holiday performance


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FllbPcEXgAA ... name=large

Eolesen wrote:

Yeah, I don't get the love affair with CVG. It's the 30th largest MSMA in the United States, and I'd think there are a lot better targets for growth. Even STL is bigger and we know how that ended up.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

CVG doesn't have a large WN operation like STL does. Although it does have a fairly large ULCC presence, they typically only go to vacation destinations.

Living seven miles from CVG I would love to see AA build up, but I don't think will happen. I'm hoping for more mainline and an Admirals Club.

LAXintl wrote:

Team letter from COO David Seymour looking back on the airlines strong holiday performance


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FllbPcEXgAA ... name=large

Hope a little bonus would come with that. My non aviation job gave us an extra day off for holidays (and a small bonus earlier) due to how busy summer was. It will definitely keep me from applying elsewhere for another year, especially an airline.

Another leadership change

Indy Bolina appointed as head of global sales for AA cargo.

https://www.stattimes.com/air-cargo/ame ... ts-1347478

After 18 months of operations, American Airlines made its last flight between Santiago de Chile and New York JFK on Tuesday, January 3rd, which was operated 3x w with 777-223ER equipment.

The route did not meet the airline's commercial expectations.

American 767 wrote:

USAirALB wrote:

American 767 wrote:

I think that they should consider selling seats on their BOS-LAX nonstop, as three-class layout, like they have on JFK-LAX/SFO.

They already do.

Yes you're right. Twice daily. Thank you. I didn't know. I just checked on aa.com and I found out. I never knew BOS-LAX nonstop was three-class service.

Such an easy upgrade. I have friends that take the connection to JFK via BOS because the elite upgrade from Y to J is virtually guaranteed.

smi0006 wrote:

First time poster on the AA thread - quick questions for the experts. It was discussed in the Aussie thread about AA picking up more Australia flying, potentially DFW-BNE - but I vaguely recall there is an issue with AA crew doing ULH fly ( think it was cabin crew) and DFW-AU is just too far. Can anyone remind me if this is correct, or if I’ve got it completely wrong.

Hi I can't confirm what you heard. But I do remember reading somewhere about (the lack of certified) pilot agreement on ULH flying across Pacific years ago (at least 4-5 years ago). I also thought the route in question was not DFW-BNE, but DFW-PEK. I thought that issue was ultimately solved since AA did fly the DFW-PEK and later DFW-HKG for a while. So AA did not fly DFW-BNE was not about labour agreement (most likely the pilot group to my memory), rather it is the agreement with Qantas on JV capacity control. AA is very conservative on TransPacific flying. I think they will only take on the market when they feel for sure on the prospect. Now the AA management come out publicly saying they will rely on more partner flying on international network is another indication why they are hesitate on a potential DFW-BNE connection. Maybe we can revisit this issue again by end of 2023 when AA had more long haul aircrafts and transatlantic winter shows fatigue in post pandemic rebound.

dcajet wrote:

After 18 months of operations, American Airlines made its last flight between Santiago de Chile and New York JFK on Tuesday, January 3rd, which was operated 3x w with 777-223ER equipment.

The route did not meet the airline's commercial expectations.

Not really surprising it didn't work. There were a few things stacked against AA on this route, which AA presumably launched to offset the loss of the LATAM partnership a few years prior. The 77E was likely way too much capacity and plane for this market, and it didn't operate daily. LATAM has been in the market for years, consistently serving it daily and currently with the right plane for the route, the 787, which AA doesn't fly out of JFK. Believe AA is restoring DFW-SCL, which was cut to start the JFK route.

For some reason (that is disappointing for me) AA cut the morning MIA-LAS nonstop that, aside from the COVID schedule, had existed for as far as I can remember. They used to have a daily early morning, afternoon and evening nonstop. The last schedule release cut it to just afternoon and evening and upgauged from 737 MAX 8 to A321 NEO but it used to be 757s so not a capacity increase from 2019. One flight a day was scheduled on a 767 in March 2020.

I was surprised and disappointed at this schedule change. To me a morning and evening would make more sense than late afternoon and evening.

ContinentalEWR wrote:

dcajet wrote:

After 18 months of operations, American Airlines made its last flight between Santiago de Chile and New York JFK on Tuesday, January 3rd, which was operated 3x w with 777-223ER equipment.

The route did not meet the airline's commercial expectations.

Not really surprising it didn't work. There were a few things stacked against AA on this route, which AA presumably launched to offset the loss of the LATAM partnership a few years prior. The 77E was likely way too much capacity and plane for this market, and it didn't operate daily. LATAM has been in the market for years, consistently serving it daily and currently with the right plane for the route, the 787, which AA doesn't fly out of JFK. Believe AA is restoring DFW-SCL, which was cut to start the JFK route.

I saw the DFW-SCL flight pushing back at DFW the other night. It is already restored.

AA has flown DFW-SCL and DFW-GRU since the beginning of time. It was DFW-EZE that came later around 2003.

Reading about ELP-NYC nonstop possibilities, i immediately went back in my memory to March of 1969. AA had a 727-023 that left TUS around 11pm, stopped in ELP, and then nonstop all nighter to LGA. Flight 90. They didn’t have a nonstop in the other direction. It didn’t last long due to low load factors. In spite of more activity in the area all these years later, im not sure there would be enough local traffic to warrant it.

BoeingGuy wrote:

ContinentalEWR wrote:

dcajet wrote:

After 18 months of operations, American Airlines made its last flight between Santiago de Chile and New York JFK on Tuesday, January 3rd, which was operated 3x w with 777-223ER equipment.

The route did not meet the airline's commercial expectations.

Not really surprising it didn't work. There were a few things stacked against AA on this route, which AA presumably launched to offset the loss of the LATAM partnership a few years prior. The 77E was likely way too much capacity and plane for this market, and it didn't operate daily. LATAM has been in the market for years, consistently serving it daily and currently with the right plane for the route, the 787, which AA doesn't fly out of JFK. Believe AA is restoring DFW-SCL, which was cut to start the JFK route.

I saw the DFW-SCL flight pushing back at DFW the other night. It is already restored.

AA has flown DFW-SCL and DFW-GRU since the beginning of time. It was DFW-EZE that came later around 2003.

DFW-SCL was suspended for seven months in 2022 and resumed October 2022. By then the removal of the JFK flight had already been announced for January 2023.

LAXintl wrote:

Team letter from COO David Seymour looking back on the airlines strong holiday performance


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FllbPcEXgAA ... name=large

Pretty impressive. I did note those days, watching WN's meltdown, that UA and DL were also having triple-digit cancels, while AA's were fewer, during that time. Now......they just need to fix their service level.

Chile's economic competition regulator (FNE) has approved the entry of American Airlines into the ownership structure of JetSMART. The FNE sees no threat from this transaction to the competitive situation in the market.

https://aero-naves.com/2023/01/04/fne-a ... -jetsmart/

BA744PHX wrote:

LongLayover wrote:

Are they planning to make CVG into another AUS or BOS type operation?

Why would they?

This article from a few months ago has me wondering what their plans are. https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/ ... -push.html

I know its very unlikely, but give me AA to South Africa in 2023!!

Was just thinking - could AA make CLT or DFW to ZRH work? Was curious why they run ZRH out of PHL instead of one of CLT/DFW.

voxkel wrote:

Was just thinking - could AA make CLT or DFW to ZRH work? Was curious why they run ZRH out of PHL instead of one of CLT/DFW.

Because PHL is their transatlantic connecting hub?

voxkel wrote:

Was just thinking - could AA make CLT or DFW to ZRH work? Was curious why they run ZRH out of PHL instead of one of CLT/DFW.

DFW - ZRH seems like a natural add.

They do it from PHL because it captures the whole country. That’s their transatlantic gateway.

A flight from DFW would work nicely with the PHL one. Same way they do Amsterdam.

voxkel wrote:

Was just thinking - could AA make CLT or DFW to ZRH work? Was curious why they run ZRH out of PHL instead of one of CLT/DFW.

AA has connecting feed onto PHL-ZRH from the Midwest, Northeast, the Mid-Atlantic, and Southeast that wouldn't be there on a DFW-ZRH nonstop flight.