Does anyone know why the back of the engine on N193UW, N194UW and N195UW are different than all the other CFM powered CEOs at AA? Instead of being rounded off they have triangular points.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mspdude/3363809516

JohanTally wrote:

Does anyone know why the back of the engine on N193UW, N194UW and N195UW are different than all the other CFM powered CEOs at AA? Instead of being rounded off they have triangular points.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mspdude/3363809516

N193UW, N194UW, and N195UW are the 3 newest CFM powered A321 CEOs at AA and were delivered after the HP / US merger in 2008. The other former US CFM powered A321s were delivered in 2001/2002. Their MSNs are in 3584, 3629, and 3633 respectively.

Vctony wrote:

JohanTally wrote:

Does anyone know why the back of the engine on N193UW, N194UW and N195UW are different than all the other CFM powered CEOs at AA? Instead of being rounded off they have triangular points.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mspdude/3363809516

N193UW, N194UW, and N195UW are the 3 newest CFM powered A321 CEOs at AA and were delivered after the HP / US merger in 2008. The other former US CFM powered A321s were delivered in 2001/2002. Their MSNs are in 3584, 3629, and 3633 respectively.

There are a dozen newer CFM powered A321 CEOs N196UW, N197UW, N198UW, N199UW, N150UW, N151UW, N152UW, N153UW, N154UW, N155UW, N156UW, and N157UW and none of them have the same exhaust nozzle the 3 oddballs.

Anybody know what caused the delay in the delivery of B787-8, N885BP to AA?

AmericanAir88 wrote:

Continental767 wrote:

Brandon757 wrote:

Saw photos it is still in current livery.

N725AN (a -300ER) landed in GUS earlier this evening. Maybe this is the one they're repainting in the retro livery (repolishing?)

In all seriousness, very odd that AA would post that teaser and then follow it up with nothing. I'm holding out hope!

Edited for clarity

Turns out N750AN was a hoax. This tweet was the reason of the spread: https://twitter.com/planespot_live/stat ... KF5stpAwOA

It does beg the question on that cryptic post a few days ago.

The whole thing is so odd and disappointing.

anymaninfc wrote:

Anybody know what caused the delay in the delivery of B787-8, N885BP to AA?

The same thing that has caused all Boeing aircraft deliveries to be late these last two years, internal Boeing production issues.

With AA axing MIA-TLV, is there a possibility of maybe launching PHL-TLV to compliment JFK-TLV?

J343 wrote:

With AA axing MIA-TLV, is there a possibility of maybe launching PHL-TLV to compliment JFK-TLV?

Very unlikely.

Any idea why AA hasn't added free messaging yet? United has way worse wifi onboard and they've had it enabled for close to a year. AA has the same wifi as DL (Viasat), for the most part. DL just flipped the switch on their Viasat planes for Free wifi, meanwhile AA can't even offer free messaging?

What gives? Any plan/timeline to implement?

amtravels wrote:

Any idea why AA hasn't added free messaging yet? United has way worse wifi onboard and they've had it enabled for close to a year. AA has the same wifi as DL (Viasat), for the most part. DL just flipped the switch on their Viasat planes for Free wifi, meanwhile AA can't even offer free messaging?

What gives? Any plan/timeline to implement?

AA management needs to first check with Spirit and Frontier to see if they offer such services. If the answer is no, AA's answer is no.

amtravels wrote:

Any idea why AA hasn't added free messaging yet? United has way worse wifi onboard and they've had it enabled for close to a year. AA has the same wifi as DL (Viasat), for the most part. DL just flipped the switch on their Viasat planes for Free wifi, meanwhile AA can't even offer free messaging?

What gives? Any plan/timeline to implement?

Probably because they want to make passengers pay for the WiFi and make money out of it.

Detroit313 wrote:

amtravels wrote:

Any idea why AA hasn't added free messaging yet? United has way worse wifi onboard and they've had it enabled for close to a year. AA has the same wifi as DL (Viasat), for the most part. DL just flipped the switch on their Viasat planes for Free wifi, meanwhile AA can't even offer free messaging?

What gives? Any plan/timeline to implement?

Probably because they want to make passengers pay for the WiFi and make money out of it.

And yet they make less money and continue to fall behind in the customer experience to United and Delta (and as far as messaging goes, WN as well).

I was on a 30 year old Delta A320 the week before last, blazing fast free wifi, PTV with hundreds of hours of content, plugs for charging that actually worked, Tip Top cocktails, a fantastic crew and an on-time arrival with bags at the carousel in 15 min from door opening (DL has a 20 min guarantee).

AA has a long way to go to match Delta's operational and customer service experience. As a Platinum Pro on AA and a Platinum on Delta, I feel I have a fair amount of experience to compare their fleet, operations, and overall offering to their customers.

fanoftristars wrote:

Detroit313 wrote:

amtravels wrote:

Any idea why AA hasn't added free messaging yet? United has way worse wifi onboard and they've had it enabled for close to a year. AA has the same wifi as DL (Viasat), for the most part. DL just flipped the switch on their Viasat planes for Free wifi, meanwhile AA can't even offer free messaging?

What gives? Any plan/timeline to implement?

Probably because they want to make passengers pay for the WiFi and make money out of it.

And yet they make less money and continue to fall behind in the customer experience to United and Delta (and as far as messaging goes, WN as well).

I was on a 30 year old Delta A320 the week before last, blazing fast free wifi, PTV with hundreds of hours of content, plugs for charging that actually worked, Tip Top cocktails, a fantastic crew and an on-time arrival with bags at the carousel in 15 min from door opening (DL has a 20 min guarantee).

AA has a long way to go to match Delta's operational and customer service experience. As a Platinum Pro on AA and a Platinum on Delta, I feel I have a fair amount of experience to compare their fleet, operations, and overall offering to their customers.

Exactly. I don’t really get what the end game at AA is right now in terms of customer experience other than to piss all of their customers off. Their planes are the most drab in the sky. No free messaging, no free Wi-Fi, and no plans to change. I’m 1K on UA, Gold on DL, and Plat on AA, so I too have some good data points on the Big 3.

J343 wrote:

With AA axing MIA-TLV, is there a possibility of maybe launching PHL-TLV to compliment JFK-TLV?

AA has a 787 & 777 shortage with all the demands of their European & Latin America flying. Then add China opening up again with 4 times weekly DFW to Shanghai coming soon with a 777-200ER.

For people who want evidence on the N750AN thing:

Here is the original pics I believe you can look up yourself

HarryLi wrote:

For people who want evidence on the N750AN thing:

Here is the original pics I believe you can look up yourself

There's a screenshot from Ins which use these shots as reference for the hoax and said they were taken in Grissom.

[twoid][/twoid]

HarryLi wrote:

For people who want evidence on the N750AN thing:

Here is the original pics I believe you can look up yourself

I had a small heart attack seeing this post.

Sadly, seeing the AA MD80 behind it proves that it's not happening, at least not yet.

Anybody know if there is some special reason AAs new A321-NEO N467AL has been sitting in SAT since Jan. 5th. Unusually long time to put an aircraft into service.

They have been averaging 5-6 weeks, it should be out in a few days.

Do AA's retrofitted/Oasis'd A321s not have colored mood lighting? I'm onboard N523UW and although they did a nice job (I thought it was a new NEO because of how new the interior looked), I'm surprised by the lack of mood lighting and/or the FAs reluctance to use it, if equipped.

AA really does have some of the most drab new interiors in the sky. All gray, no color at all except for the red stripe on headrests!

amtravels wrote:

Do AA's retrofitted/Oasis'd A321s not have colored mood lighting? I'm onboard N523UW and although they did a nice job (I thought it was a new NEO because of how new the interior looked), I'm surprised by the lack of mood lighting and/or the FAs reluctance to use it, if equipped.

AA really does have some of the most drab new interiors in the sky. All gray, no color at all except for the red stripe on headrests!

The retrofitted A321s do not have mood lighting. Just standard white LEDs.

Polot wrote:

amtravels wrote:

Do AA's retrofitted/Oasis'd A321s not have colored mood lighting? I'm onboard N523UW and although they did a nice job (I thought it was a new NEO because of how new the interior looked), I'm surprised by the lack of mood lighting and/or the FAs reluctance to use it, if equipped.

AA really does have some of the most drab new interiors in the sky. All gray, no color at all except for the red stripe on headrests!

The retrofitted A321s do not have mood lighting. Just standard white LEDs.

That’s what I figured. Typical AA, penny wise and pound foolish.

amtravels wrote:

Polot wrote:

amtravels wrote:

Do AA's retrofitted/Oasis'd A321s not have colored mood lighting? I'm onboard N523UW and although they did a nice job (I thought it was a new NEO because of how new the interior looked), I'm surprised by the lack of mood lighting and/or the FAs reluctance to use it, if equipped.

AA really does have some of the most drab new interiors in the sky. All gray, no color at all except for the red stripe on headrests!

The retrofitted A321s do not have mood lighting. Just standard white LEDs.

That’s what I figured. Typical AA, penny wise and pound foolish.

Waste of money and upkeep for the airline. It’s not a disco it’s a mode of transportation

Boof02671 wrote:

amtravels wrote:

Polot wrote:

The retrofitted A321s do not have mood lighting. Just standard white LEDs.

That’s what I figured. Typical AA, penny wise and pound foolish.

Waste of money and upkeep for the airline. It’s not a disco it’s a mode of transportation

Delta, Jetblue, Alaska, Air Canada, and United would all like to disagree... and clearly american too with how mood light heavy their NEOs and 777s are...

Boof02671 wrote:

amtravels wrote:

Polot wrote:

The retrofitted A321s do not have mood lighting. Just standard white LEDs.

That’s what I figured. Typical AA, penny wise and pound foolish.

Waste of money and upkeep for the airline. It’s not a disco it’s a mode of transportation

AA’s industry leading peers disagree.

Jeremy

Any chance AA will pick up more used 319s? They've been upgauging a lot of regional flights to 319s and currently don't have anything under 172 seats on order.

mikejepp wrote:

Any chance AA will pick up more used 319s? They've been upgauging a lot of regional flights to 319s and currently don't have anything under 172 seats on order.

I'm not sure what the market is like for used A319s at the moment, but I don't know that AA would be that interested.

You're absolutely correct - there has definitely been a significant uptick in A319s replacing regional jets on many routes (AMA and LBB come to mind), but I think that's more due to a lack of available RJs (or maybe more specifically, RJ pilots) rather than a surge in mainline demand. With fares where they are now, AA may be wiling to fly 1/3-empty A319s on these routes for the time being, but that doesn't necessarily mean they need more aircraft in that size range.

itripreport wrote:

Boof02671 wrote:

amtravels wrote:

That’s what I figured. Typical AA, penny wise and pound foolish.

Waste of money and upkeep for the airline. It’s not a disco it’s a mode of transportation

Delta, Jetblue, Alaska, Air Canada, and United would all like to disagree... and clearly american too with how mood light heavy their NEOs and 777s are...

Agree "it's not a disco it's a mode of transportation" but for a few years now AA has been going for the lowest common denominator in their interiors. The lack of colored lights tell you more about the culture at AA than anything else.

Positives: consistency. AA interiors are drab, yes, but they're consistent. Almost all have big bins and outlets at every seat That's more than I can say for the mess of narrowbody interiors at UA.
Negatives: competitive product. UA is embarking on a narrowbody interior transformation. DL did that years ago. All UA's new NB planes so far have custom (not Boeing default colors) LED mood lighting. Big bins, too.

If United retrofits that to all of their narrowbodies, then the competitive landscape will pretty much look like this:
Delta narrowbodies: big bins, PTVs, colored mood lighting
United narrowbodies: big bins, PTVs, colored mood lighting
American narrowbodies: big bins

Sure, PTVs and colored lighting aren't that big of a deal, but they create a "halo effect" which contributes to the customer having a more positive feeling about their in-flight experience. AA's spartan interiors open the door for an average customer to look at an AA plane interior and think "man, why are delta plane's so much nicer? (not even aware that DL's planes are older!)" maybe they'll think "why can i text for free on delta and united but not AA?" or "oh, wifi is $10? it's $8 on united and free on delta..."

amtravels wrote:

itripreport wrote:

Boof02671 wrote:

Waste of money and upkeep for the airline. It’s not a disco it’s a mode of transportation

Delta, Jetblue, Alaska, Air Canada, and United would all like to disagree... and clearly american too with how mood light heavy their NEOs and 777s are...

Agree "it's not a disco it's a mode of transportation" but for a few years now AA has been going for the lowest common denominator in their interiors. The lack of colored lights tell you more about the culture at AA than anything else.

Positives: consistency. AA interiors are drab, yes, but they're consistent. Almost all have big bins and outlets at every seat That's more than I can say for the mess of narrowbody interiors at UA.
Negatives: competitive product. UA is embarking on a narrowbody interior transformation. DL did that years ago. All UA's new NB planes so far have custom (not Boeing default colors) LED mood lighting. Big bins, too.

If United retrofits that to all of their narrowbodies, then the competitive landscape will pretty much look like this:
Delta narrowbodies: big bins, PTVs, colored mood lighting
United narrowbodies: big bins, PTVs, colored mood lighting
American narrowbodies: big bins

Sure, PTVs and colored lighting aren't that big of a deal, but they create a "halo effect" which contributes to the customer having a more positive feeling about their in-flight experience. AA's spartan interiors open the door for an average customer to look at an AA plane interior and think "man, why are delta plane's so much nicer? (not even aware that DL's planes are older!)" maybe they'll think "why can i text for free on delta and united but not AA?" or "oh, wifi is $10? it's $8 on united and free on delta..."

Looking at the past 10 years it's very clear that AA is not concerned about the "coach passenger experience." They are Spirit and Frontier with MCE and a few frills like free soft drinks and reclining seats. AA still has not brought back BOB. Flying MIA/LAX in Y (as there's no chance in he$$ my upgrade is going to clear) this Saturday I'll get the choice of potato chips or almonds. At least as an EXP the first pack will be free.

How does one square the above comments with the fact that AA's internal polling of customers, both VFF and irregular fliers where both at an all time highs in customer satisfaction for 2022? Maybe AA has figured out what customers really want and A-Netters haven't?

UpNAWAy wrote:

How does one square the above comments with the fact that AA's internal polling of customers, both VFF and irregular fliers where both at an all time highs in customer satisfaction for 2022? Maybe AA has figured out what customers really want and A-Netters haven't?

You also have to understand, that any poll conducted internally by any carrier will be heavily skewed, as only those who want to rave about a product, or want to heavily complain will actually take the time to write about their experience. Every time I fly, I get sent these surveys, never have I actually replied to them, wether its american, delta or United, as is the case with almost every survey sent by any company to its customers

I get all those "customer satisfaction" surveys from AA at least once a month. Interestingly, it's always for a flight that left and arrived on time. At any rate, I get questions on areas like the cleanliness of the boarding gate area, did the gate agent smile, the check in experience (I OLCI so that's never applicable) but never on seat quality, IFE, onboard service, etc. If you ask certain questions you get the answers you want.

True but they have been doing these weekly surveys for a long time if not decades, so it is a valid apples to apples comparison.

Its pretty clear that customers want a broad network, good flight times, reliable performance and competitive prices, everything else is so small in the decision making process for most its not even measurable. But even more, the constant AA is cheap is not back by anything resembling facts, they have been spending money left and right upgrading virtually everything.

UpNAWAy wrote:

But even more, the constant AA is cheap is not back by anything resembling facts, they have been spending money left and right upgrading virtually everything.

Here's the thing. You can spend lots of money and still be a cheap/crap airline, if you spend money on the wrong decisions.

AA's domestic onboard product is poor at best. The 737 retrofit is a shade above Spirit, but not by much.
Food on AA is just poor. The number of times there was once a plated snack or meal and now its a basket passed around is getting annoying.
The International fleet was once great thanks to Virasb's vision, but Parker and co gutted everything but the 77W creating an abysmal onboard product in coach. The J cabin is now fairly dated and has one of the least dense configurations when it comes to the 787 fleet.
Regional product: Oh dear god, dont get me started on this. The fact that AA is proud they brought back 50-seat ZW aircraft over 76-seat aircraft is nuts. AA is uncompetitive now to almost everything in ORD. The entire regional fleet product (save E175s) desperately need a makeover.
A quality airline doesnt hawk shit to customers with lines like "Out of over 5,000 flights, our flight has been chosen for this special offer!"
The soft product on AA is still poor. While FAs are better than the 2000s, they still lag far behind DL/UA in terms of quality customer service

What I find most amusing is that I always assumed Parker, Kirby and Issom were from the same cloth, and the changes and cheapness was a group decision. The poor management was by committee. The irony is that it turns out AA got screwed when Kirby left. Kirby has literally turned into the leader at UA that everyone hoped would someday take over AA. Instead AA got Isom and he continues almost the exact same crap as the previous administration.

enterusername wrote:

UpNAWAy wrote:

But even more, the constant AA is cheap is not back by anything resembling facts, they have been spending money left and right upgrading virtually everything.

Here's the thing. You can spend lots of money and still be a cheap/crap airline, if you spend money on the wrong decisions.

AA's domestic onboard product is poor at best. The 737 retrofit is a shade above Spirit, but not by much.
Food on AA is just poor. The number of times there was once a plated snack or meal and now its a basket passed around is getting annoying.
The International fleet was once great thanks to Virasb's vision, but Parker and co gutted everything but the 77W creating an abysmal onboard product in coach. The J cabin is now fairly dated and has one of the least dense configurations when it comes to the 787 fleet.
Regional product: Oh dear god, dont get me started on this. The fact that AA is proud they brought back 50-seat ZW aircraft over 76-seat aircraft is nuts. AA is uncompetitive now to almost everything in ORD. The entire regional fleet product (save E175s) desperately need a makeover.
A quality airline doesnt hawk shit to customers with lines like "Out of over 5,000 flights, our flight has been chosen for this special offer!"
The soft product on AA is still poor. While FAs are better than the 2000s, they still lag far behind DL/UA in terms of quality customer service

What I find most amusing is that I always assumed Parker, Kirby and Issom were from the same cloth, and the changes and cheapness was a group decision. The poor management was by committee. The irony is that it turns out AA got screwed when Kirby left. Kirby has literally turned into the leader at UA that everyone hoped would someday take over AA. Instead AA got Isom and he continues almost the exact same crap as the previous administration.

Bingo. Even years later the Kirby stuff is still shocking to me. I was convinced he was going to ruin UA when he took over as CEO and he's done the opposite. For what it's worth though, the food on United is absolute trash from Int'l business class down to domestic Y. Worse than AA and DL - hands down. United claim's they're working on it (just like they claim they're working on their terrible wifi) but i'll believe it when I see it.

Re: the customer satisfaction surveys... AA has some bright spots. As I mentioned the product is consistent even if it's spartan. The wi-fi works well. The route network is good. I think the real problem is going to come in due time, once UA's retrofits are complete. Once that's done, again, as I mentioned, AA will have a wholly uncompetitive product compared to their two closest rivals. AA can't possibly go back and retrofit IFE, etc. to match because they just spent a ton of money ripping it all out/Oasising their planes.

So if their hard product isn't going to be competitive in the future, what can they be competitive with? Soft product? Technology? and most importantly, price. Right now, the first two (especially the app) lag the competition. DL and UA are pretty vocally spending money in these areas, AA does not seem to be. Heck, (this is minor, but) I called AA yesterday to inquire about potentially flying standby on a certain flight and I asked what # I'd be on the standby list so I could estimate my chances of clearing... they couldn't tell me. Told me to check at the airport or in the app, sorry! Their CS agents should have access to info like this - United does! American is focused on cost takeout from the top down, and I know this for a fact. And if the only thing they can compete on is price (e.g. have the lowest fares in the market), then what are they if not an (legacy) LCC?

amtravels wrote:

Polot wrote:

amtravels wrote:

Do AA's retrofitted/Oasis'd A321s not have colored mood lighting? I'm onboard N523UW and although they did a nice job (I thought it was a new NEO because of how new the interior looked), I'm surprised by the lack of mood lighting and/or the FAs reluctance to use it, if equipped.

AA really does have some of the most drab new interiors in the sky. All gray, no color at all except for the red stripe on headrests!

The retrofitted A321s do not have mood lighting. Just standard white LEDs.

That’s what I figured. Typical AA, penny wise and pound foolish.

I believe some of the LUS 321s are not able to be reconfigured with the LED mood lighting without a full electrical upgrade. Not sure how many of the tails it effects but I almost prefer that from a consistency perspective.

UpNAWAy wrote:

True but they have been doing these weekly surveys for a long time if not decades, so it is a valid apples to apples comparison.

Its pretty clear that customers want a broad network, good flight times, reliable performance and competitive prices, everything else is so small in the decision making process for most its not even measurable. But even more, the constant AA is cheap is not back by anything resembling facts, they have been spending money left and right upgrading virtually everything.

What exactly have they upgraded? Nothing about the oasis interior is an upgrade except power at every seat. The cushy seats with no power ports of the LUS fleet is far better than anything they have now. While not the most comfortable in Y due to lack of padding on the seat, the LAA A319, A321 and 737-800s(ptv equipped) pre-oasis aircraft were fairly comfortable. The seats are cheap. The sidewall panels are cheap. While bigger, the overhead bins are cheap.

The surveys never ask about the actual onboard product.

I just flew my in-laws to Dallas for a visit. Delta was several hundred more $$$ than AA so we flew them on AA this time. (We always fly them on Delta, once on Southwest) They asked why their plane was so old (Legacy AA A321). They had trouble connecting to the Wi-Fi to watch a movie. Their row’s plugs didn’t have power. We waited 45 min for their checked bag. They asked if they could go back to Delta next time. I don’t blame them.

On Delta they would have been on an A320 or A220 with PTVs mood lighting, most likely working power plugs, free internet, and checked bags guaranteed in 20 min or less. AA‘s fleet can only beat Delta on the same route with a cheaper price.

amtravels wrote:

Bingo. Even years later the Kirby stuff is still shocking to me. I was convinced he was going to ruin UA when he took over as CEO and he's done the opposite. For what it's worth though, the food on United is absolute trash from Int'l business class down to domestic Y. Worse than AA and DL - hands down. United claim's they're working on it (just like they claim they're working on their terrible wifi) but i'll believe it when I see it.

Re: the customer satisfaction surveys... AA has some bright spots. As I mentioned the product is consistent even if it's spartan. The wi-fi works well. The route network is good. I think the real problem is going to come in due time, once UA's retrofits are complete. Once that's done, again, as I mentioned, AA will have a wholly uncompetitive product compared to their two closest rivals. AA can't possibly go back and retrofit IFE, etc. to match because they just spent a ton of money ripping it all out/Oasising their planes.

So if their hard product isn't going to be competitive in the future, what can they be competitive with? Soft product? Technology? and most importantly, price. Right now, the first two (especially the app) lag the competition. DL and UA are pretty vocally spending money in these areas, AA does not seem to be. Heck, (this is minor, but) I called AA yesterday to inquire about potentially flying standby on a certain flight and I asked what # I'd be on the standby list so I could estimate my chances of clearing... they couldn't tell me. Told me to check at the airport or in the app, sorry! Their CS agents should have access to info like this - United does! American is focused on cost takeout from the top down, and I know this for a fact. And if the only thing they can compete on is price (e.g. have the lowest fares in the market), then what are they if not an (legacy) LCC?

So the Shaktar Chicken on UA is poor. But frankly most of their food up until this latest batch wasnt bad. It wasnt great, but wasnt bad. They just got into a poor cycle for food (AA has had the same problem over the past 12 years. Some massive home runs on food, some miserable failures, but the way they source it means you cant change mid stream.

And dont get me started on customer service. I had a flight on AA that was delayed by crew/weather, then cancelled and I ended up changing to literally 5 other flights to make my meeting (all but 1 of them ended up cancelling after AA's infamous rolling delays). In the meantime I bought one-way backups on DL as well. During the delays (for the same weather/crew issues), DL emailed me 4 times. 2 times was for food vouchers ($20 per person) and the 3rd time was for a hotel voucher. I didnt need to talk to anyone. Didnt need to wait in some mile long customer service line. They pro-actively emailed me. I have ZERO status on DL.

What did AA do? They delayed each flight by 15 minute increments even though our planes were literally 1+ hours away diverted and still on the ground. AA never offered anything at all for any inconvenience. After each of the first 5 flights cancelled, I didnt receive a single email with a voucher for food or hotel or anything. I've been Executive Platinum for over a decade.

Every single time I fly AA, i question why. I was UA 1K last year as well. My god was that a better experience in every single way, except having to connect in IAH, ORD or DEN for every trip. But alas, I'm hub captive. This merger between B6 and NK cant come fast enough. I literally dream about the ability to fly an airline like B6 that even partially gives a shit about me compared to AA. 150k+ miles per year for over a decade. $30k+ per year in spend. And AA treats me like I owe them something when I fly them.

Allow me to comment on the comments upthread about ignoring/not responding to surveys. I get that they can be constructed in a way to get the answers they want to hear, as any survey or poll can be but, as with political elections...if you don't vote, you have no right to bitch about the outcome. It's as simple as that.

My mom recently had a lousy experience with AA flying r/t PHX/OGG/PHX especially the return leg ex-OGG and she certainly did complete the survey she got about that flight. And the questions were relevant, asking about the food service, the quality of the service given by the F/A, etc. It wasn't a "puff piece" just looking for rosy answers.

cathay747 wrote:

Allow me to comment on the comments upthread about ignoring/not responding to surveys. I get that they can be constructed in a way to get the answers they want to hear, as any survey or poll can be but, as with political elections...if you don't vote, you have no right to bitch about the outcome. It's as simple as that.

My mom recently had a lousy experience with AA flying r/t PHX/OGG/PHX especially the return leg ex-OGG and she certainly did complete the survey she got about that flight. And the questions were relevant, asking about the food service, the quality of the service given by the F/A, etc. It wasn't a "puff piece" just looking for rosy answers.

Unfortunately the part that kills me on this is that that information never makes it back to be available to frontline management - it only ends up aggregated at HQ. Now to be clear, as far as I know DL and UA are the same, AS is the only one that I know of that has granular data available to frontline management.

There are a lot of managers at AA that want to help deliver a better experience - just give them the information to do so.

enterusername wrote:

What did AA do? They delayed each flight by 15 minute increments even though our planes were literally 1+ hours away diverted and still on the ground.

Sorry, not fleet related, BUT I do not get why they do this. It pisses EVERYONE on the flight off. It causes hell for the gate agents. It’s a terrible experience for everyone involved. Contrast that to United who will send you a text or app update with the exact reason why you’re delayed…. AA #GoingForGreat yet again!

Would it be too expensive to put screens back on the narrowbodies?

Once United is done with the retrofits, Oasis will just look so bad compared to UA and DL.

This decision by AA was taken when United was going that route too. Actually the very first MAXes were delivered to UA pretty much identical to Oasis, without screens. Kirby changed all that as soon as he took over and announced United Next.

alasizon wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

Allow me to comment on the comments upthread about ignoring/not responding to surveys. I get that they can be constructed in a way to get the answers they want to hear, as any survey or poll can be but, as with political elections...if you don't vote, you have no right to bitch about the outcome. It's as simple as that.

My mom recently had a lousy experience with AA flying r/t PHX/OGG/PHX especially the return leg ex-OGG and she certainly did complete the survey she got about that flight. And the questions were relevant, asking about the food service, the quality of the service given by the F/A, etc. It wasn't a "puff piece" just looking for rosy answers.

Unfortunately the part that kills me on this is that that information never makes it back to be available to frontline management - it only ends up aggregated at HQ. Now to be clear, as far as I know DL and UA are the same, AS is the only one that I know of that has granular data available to frontline management.

There are a lot of managers at AA that want to help deliver a better experience - just give them the information to do so.

Do you know that for a fact, that the feedback is not sliced to a station level and simply stays " aggregated at HQ", like this was some remote place? In my experience, airlines don't run "puff piece" surveys - they are too expensive for that. They might not always act on everything for a variety of reasons but make no mistake, they take a very close look.

Westerwaelder wrote:

alasizon wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

Allow me to comment on the comments upthread about ignoring/not responding to surveys. I get that they can be constructed in a way to get the answers they want to hear, as any survey or poll can be but, as with political elections...if you don't vote, you have no right to bitch about the outcome. It's as simple as that.

My mom recently had a lousy experience with AA flying r/t PHX/OGG/PHX especially the return leg ex-OGG and she certainly did complete the survey she got about that flight. And the questions were relevant, asking about the food service, the quality of the service given by the F/A, etc. It wasn't a "puff piece" just looking for rosy answers.

Unfortunately the part that kills me on this is that that information never makes it back to be available to frontline management - it only ends up aggregated at HQ. Now to be clear, as far as I know DL and UA are the same, AS is the only one that I know of that has granular data available to frontline management.

There are a lot of managers at AA that want to help deliver a better experience - just give them the information to do so.

Do you know that for a fact, that the feedback is not sliced to a station level and simply stays " aggregated at HQ", like this was some remote place? In my experience, airlines don't run "puff piece" surveys - they are too expensive for that. They might not always act on everything for a variety of reasons but make no mistake, they take a very close look.

Right. Unless you're actually in AA mgmt. and know this for a fact, I don't think anybody can make the claim that the information never makes it back to be available to frontline management - it only ends up aggregated at HQ. So are you in AA mgmt. and you actually know this? Don't get me wrong, alasizon, you clearly know a LOT based on what you post and it always seems well-thought out and accurate, and I respect what you say, but how are you so certain here?

I'm with Westerwaelder here, those surveys cost bucks. Somebody has got to be going thru them thoroughly.

cathay747 wrote:

Westerwaelder wrote:

alasizon wrote:

Unfortunately the part that kills me on this is that that information never makes it back to be available to frontline management - it only ends up aggregated at HQ. Now to be clear, as far as I know DL and UA are the same, AS is the only one that I know of that has granular data available to frontline management.

There are a lot of managers at AA that want to help deliver a better experience - just give them the information to do so.

Do you know that for a fact, that the feedback is not sliced to a station level and simply stays " aggregated at HQ", like this was some remote place? In my experience, airlines don't run "puff piece" surveys - they are too expensive for that. They might not always act on everything for a variety of reasons but make no mistake, they take a very close look.

Right. Unless you're actually in AA mgmt. and know this for a fact, I don't think anybody can make the claim that the information never makes it back to be available to frontline management - it only ends up aggregated at HQ. So are you in AA mgmt. and you actually know this? Don't get me wrong, alasizon, you clearly know a LOT based on what you post and it always seems well-thought out and accurate, and I respect what you say, but how are you so certain here?

I'm with Westerwaelder here, those surveys cost bucks. Somebody has got to be going thru them thoroughly.

As someone that worked for awhile in marketing and surveying those surveys might make it back to the Marketing Department but whether they are taken up senior management is another story. It's the C level that signs off on major aircraft retrofits. So far management when it comes to the domestic coach product doesn't seem to want to have a product much more than what the ULCCs have.

cathay747 wrote:

Westerwaelder wrote:

alasizon wrote:

Unfortunately the part that kills me on this is that that information never makes it back to be available to frontline management - it only ends up aggregated at HQ. Now to be clear, as far as I know DL and UA are the same, AS is the only one that I know of that has granular data available to frontline management.

There are a lot of managers at AA that want to help deliver a better experience - just give them the information to do so.

Do you know that for a fact, that the feedback is not sliced to a station level and simply stays " aggregated at HQ", like this was some remote place? In my experience, airlines don't run "puff piece" surveys - they are too expensive for that. They might not always act on everything for a variety of reasons but make no mistake, they take a very close look.

Right. Unless you're actually in AA mgmt. and know this for a fact, I don't think anybody can make the claim that the information never makes it back to be available to frontline management - it only ends up aggregated at HQ. So are you in AA mgmt. and you actually know this? Don't get me wrong, alasizon, you clearly know a LOT based on what you post and it always seems well-thought out and accurate, and I respect what you say, but how are you so certain here?

I'm with Westerwaelder here, those surveys cost bucks. Somebody has got to be going thru them thoroughly.

The data isn't available to Frontline until it has been aggregated several times over at HQ. My position splits the difference between Frontline and HQ so I first hand get to see both sides (by design).

The surveys are completely well intentioned and do actually produce results that cover the entire company. For example, the new Dine-on-Demand service being trialed on several LHR and South America flights is targeted based on the aggregate feedback.

However, the granular data is also as equally as important to the Frontline to be able to address smaller issues. Those smaller issues are little things that just rub customers wrong ever so slightly but it adds up if the service fails elsewhere. Unfortunately a lot of those singular issues are simply too small to be aggregated and weighted so they don't make it back to frontline management in any of the bundled analysis and reports. If it is something simple we can fix for 20 people out of the 30,000 that day, then it is still worth fixing. The challenge is if you get 30,000 responses and only 20 mention something in free-form fashion, then those 20 just don't end up generating enough impact in the word cloud and analysis to register as a blip.

By no means is this an AA -exclusive problem nor do I think that it is an actual "issue" with AA, just somewhere where we can do better for the customer and something worth investing in (albeit with a difficult to measure ROI due to the granularity). It would require someone's free-form text responses to be fully available (parsed of any passenger personal information) to the Frontline Management along with the relevant flight/gate info. That time if using the same people today (no new net heads) would probably take away from being able to produce some of the aggregated charts, graphs and analysis that comes out of it which is completely essential as well. There is an absolutely massive amount of data out there, it's just about making it more available to the frontline.

There is also an option for better tie-ins with the Social Media teams but that is a whole other avenue that I'm not knowledgeable enough about as to what it would take.

Westerwaelder wrote:

alasizon wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

Allow me to comment on the comments upthread about ignoring/not responding to surveys. I get that they can be constructed in a way to get the answers they want to hear, as any survey or poll can be but, as with political elections...if you don't vote, you have no right to bitch about the outcome. It's as simple as that.

My mom recently had a lousy experience with AA flying r/t PHX/OGG/PHX especially the return leg ex-OGG and she certainly did complete the survey she got about that flight. And the questions were relevant, asking about the food service, the quality of the service given by the F/A, etc. It wasn't a "puff piece" just looking for rosy answers.

Unfortunately the part that kills me on this is that that information never makes it back to be available to frontline management - it only ends up aggregated at HQ. Now to be clear, as far as I know DL and UA are the same, AS is the only one that I know of that has granular data available to frontline management.

There are a lot of managers at AA that want to help deliver a better experience - just give them the information to do so.

Do you know that for a fact, that the feedback is not sliced to a station level and simply stays " aggregated at HQ", like this was some remote place? In my experience, airlines don't run "puff piece" surveys - they are too expensive for that. They might not always act on everything for a variety of reasons but make no mistake, they take a very close look.

Based on the calls I've received from different departments at AA after filling out surveys, they definitely disperse the information. Occasionally, I've even seen them try to fix the issues.

Can someone please tell me when this become the "AA Surveys" thread?

alasizon wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

Westerwaelder wrote:

Do you know that for a fact, that the feedback is not sliced to a station level and simply stays " aggregated at HQ", like this was some remote place? In my experience, airlines don't run "puff piece" surveys - they are too expensive for that. They might not always act on everything for a variety of reasons but make no mistake, they take a very close look.

Right. Unless you're actually in AA mgmt. and know this for a fact, I don't think anybody can make the claim that the information never makes it back to be available to frontline management - it only ends up aggregated at HQ. So are you in AA mgmt. and you actually know this? Don't get me wrong, alasizon, you clearly know a LOT based on what you post and it always seems well-thought out and accurate, and I respect what you say, but how are you so certain here?

I'm with Westerwaelder here, those surveys cost bucks. Somebody has got to be going thru them thoroughly.

The data isn't available to Frontline until it has been aggregated several times over at HQ. My position splits the difference between Frontline and HQ so I first hand get to see both sides (by design).

The surveys are completely well intentioned and do actually produce results that cover the entire company. For example, the new Dine-on-Demand service being trialed on several LHR and South America flights is targeted based on the aggregate feedback.

However, the granular data is also as equally as important to the Frontline to be able to address smaller issues. Those smaller issues are little things that just rub customers wrong ever so slightly but it adds up if the service fails elsewhere. Unfortunately a lot of those singular issues are simply too small to be aggregated and weighted so they don't make it back to frontline management in any of the bundled analysis and reports. If it is something simple we can fix for 20 people out of the 30,000 that day, then it is still worth fixing. The challenge is if you get 30,000 responses and only 20 mention something in free-form fashion, then those 20 just don't end up generating enough impact in the word cloud and analysis to register as a blip.

By no means is this an AA -exclusive problem nor do I think that it is an actual "issue" with AA, just somewhere where we can do better for the customer and something worth investing in (albeit with a difficult to measure ROI due to the granularity). It would require someone's free-form text responses to be fully available (parsed of any passenger personal information) to the Frontline Management along with the relevant flight/gate info. That time if using the same people today (no new net heads) would probably take away from being able to produce some of the aggregated charts, graphs and analysis that comes out of it which is completely essential as well. There is an absolutely massive amount of data out there, it's just about making it more available to the frontline.

There is also an option for better tie-ins with the Social Media teams but that is a whole other avenue that I'm not knowledgeable enough about as to what it would take.

Very insightful and well said, as usual. Thanks. And yes, we're getting off topic now, but it was a good exchange with good info put out.