Welcome to the Delta Air Lines Network thread - 2023 edition.

Please continue to post your news and discussions below.

Link to the locked 2022 edition:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1468453

It would be great to see other hubs get more overseas love, especially TATL. The majority of Europe is all routed through JFK and ATL with some token presence from BOS and DTW. Aside from that it’s the same AMS/CDG/LHR for the rest of their hubs. I get that’s their European partners main hubs but it would be nice to see the other hubs get more diverse flying overseas too the way you see AA and UA spread their overseas flying throughout all of their hubs.

New for 2023:
-ATL-TLV/EDI/STR (pre-COVID resumption)/DUS (pre-COVID resumption)
-JFK-GVA/LGW/BER/3rd daily FCO
-DTW-KEF
-LAX-LHR/CDG (pre-COVID resumption)
What I would like to see:
-More South Pacific flights/PPT extended to year round
-More U.S.-South America flights from the LATAM JV
-More East Coast-Hawaii

AviationScorpio wrote:

It would be great to see other hubs get more overseas love, especially TATL. The majority of Europe is all routed through JFK and ATL with some token presence from BOS and DTW. Aside from that it’s the same AMS/CDG/LHR for the rest of their hubs. I get that’s their European partners main hubs but it would be nice to see the other hubs get more diverse flying overseas too the way you see AA and UA spread their overseas flying throughout all of their hubs.

BOS has been steadily growing. In 2019, DL added LIS and EDI. FCO was introduced in 2021 (KEF also flew but that was dropped). This past year, ATH and TLV were added.

Would love to see some route adds in Texas this year. Early 2020 DL had announced DFW - SEA 3x. Would love to see Point to Point flying out of Austin considering it’s a focus city!

rjbesikof wrote:

What I would like to see:
-More East Coast-Hawaii

ATL-OGG is operating for most the year. I believe 5x/week. Looks like the equipment is a 76K at this point anyway.

jb1087xna wrote:

rjbesikof wrote:

What I would like to see:
-More East Coast-Hawaii

ATL-OGG is operating for most the year. I believe 5x/week. Looks like the equipment is a 76K at this point anyway.[/quote]
I’m on this flight on Jan 7th and it’s a A330-300

AV8AJET wrote:

jb1087xna wrote:

ATL-OGG is operating for most the year. I believe 5x/week. Looks like the equipment is a 76K at this point anyway.

I’m on this flight on Jan 7th and it’s a A330-300

Looks like it switches towards the end of March.

Wonder if Delta will have a TPAC expansion this year. Summer routes mostly show up in March I think.

rjbesikof wrote:

New for 2023:
-ATL-TLV/EDI/STR (pre-COVID resumption)/DUS (pre-COVID resumption)
-JFK-GVA/LGW/BER/3rd daily FCO
-DTW-KEF
-LAX-LHR/CDG (pre-COVID resumption)
What I would like to see:
-More South Pacific flights/PPT extended to year round
-More U.S.-South America flights from the LATAM JV
-More East Coast-Hawaii

PDX-ICN
HNL/MSP/PDX-HND
Nonstop DTW/SEA-PVG
All starting on the week of Mar 25

Perhaps some more domestic SEA expansion such as MIA/OMA/OAK/STL/DFW/IAH/SAT/PHL/CLT/EWR. Not saying all of those this year, but a selection from that list. Some of those domestic stations could be added out of BOS too.

I think 2023 will be a big year for DL in SLC.

[*]

mesasurf wrote:

I think 2023 will be a big year for DL in SLC.

Do you have any information that indicates DL will expand in SLC? Or is your wish list?

BoeingGuy wrote:

[*]

mesasurf wrote:

I think 2023 will be a big year for DL in SLC.

Do you have any information that indicates DL will expand in SLC? Or is your wish list?

Delta has stated their core hubs (of which SLC is one) will see more expansion this year.

I wish they’d rebuild their Mexico network with BJX on their own metal and return to 5x daily ATL-MEX at a minimum. Just a horrible competitive offering versus AA/UA.

Really wishing there was a demand for ATL-KEF, also anyone know when the nonstop ATL-VCE restarts?

rjbesikof wrote:

New for 2023:
-ATL-TLV/EDI/STR (pre-COVID resumption)/DUS (pre-COVID resumption)
-JFK-GVA/LGW/BER/3rd daily FCO
-DTW-KEF
-LAX-LHR/CDG (pre-COVID resumption)

DL is resuming DTW-FCO too in S23 (last operated in S19)

AV8AJET wrote:

also anyone know when the nonstop ATL-VCE restarts?

As per DL.com 1st available Atlanta to Venice flight is scheduled on May 7th, running daily onboard B763.
However this flight has already been operated during the past summer (and the previous one too), it seems to be a rather robust route in the summer for DL.

Please bring back TPA-AMS or TPA-CDG if adding at AMS is problematic.

holeham wrote:

Please bring back TPA-AMS or TPA-CDG if adding at AMS is problematic.

This! Or maybe FLL-AMS/CDG so they can capture more if the SoFla market without actually making it look like they’re trying to stick it to AA by adding a route like out of MIA instead. I know MIA is their main focal point when it comes to this Latam JV and South American growth, but being only 20 miles away, FLL can play a part in that too.

For the delta network, Summary of new or returning additions to dtw for summer 2023
Dtw-kef
Dtw-hnl year round
Dtw-fco
Dtw-pvg
Dtw-pkx

Will be great to see 14-15 widebodies lined up in the a concourse each day, there’s room for a couple more as well !

Any news on ATL/LAX-PVG and SEA-PKX?

JFK-BER is a pre-COVID resumption although it was formerly at TXL.

Interested to see what happens in China/Pacific. Last I checked it seemed the DTW/SEA routes are planned as they were pre-COVID, don't think we'll see ATL/LAX-PVG come back this year. But it would be nice to see the direct flights resume and PKX.

I would think that DL would want LAX flights to resume to strengthen the LAX hub, but it might be too soon in the recovery. How long can PRC rights be kept before they go back out to bid?

AviationScorpio wrote:

Any news on ATL/LAX-PVG and SEA-PKX?

I thought the flights to PVG operate via ICN, which has service to ATL/DTW/MSP/PDX/SEA on DL.

Boeing757100 wrote:

AviationScorpio wrote:

Any news on ATL/LAX-PVG and SEA-PKX?

I thought the flights to PVG operate via ICN, which has service to ATL/DTW/MSP/PDX/SEA on DL.

PVG is only operated from SEA and DTW, both have stops in ICN. They are separate from the SEA/DTW-ICN flights.

Boeing757100 wrote:

AviationScorpio wrote:

Any news on ATL/LAX-PVG and SEA-PKX?

I thought the flights to PVG operate via ICN, which has service to ATL/DTW/MSP/PDX/SEA on DL.

SEA/DTW-PVG does a technical stop at ICN, but pax don’t get off the plane there. So there is no access to PVG on DL metal from ATL/MSP/PDX-ICN flights. Those pax can obviously still fly the KE operated ICN-PVG, with a DL ticket number instead.

Prost wrote:

I would think that DL would want LAX flights to resume to strengthen the LAX hub, but it might be too soon in the recovery. How long can PRC rights be kept before they go back out to bid?

Who's interested in fighting for PCR slots?

Right now there are China and US imposed frequency restrictions in place and China is still requiring all international arriving passenger to quarantine for 3 day either at home or in their own hotel room. This is a vast improvement but at this point if the quarantine requirement remains in place it is highly unlikely US carriers will be jumping to add a ton of frequency at the end of March also the US just put a testing requirement for passengers returning from China, they all must show a negative COVID test before boarding.

Both Delta and United's March 25th schedules are showing major resumptions in flights to China but as the date draws closer we've seen them remove those flights from their schedule in the past and I think we'll see the same thing happen again.

Unless China completely throws in the towel when it comes to COVID restrictions I think Delta and United will take a cautious approach to restoring routes and frequency in 2023. If the US and China lift frequency restrictions I think United will immediately restore nonstop service to PVG/PEK/CTU from SFO in 2023, and I think Delta will move to immediately restore nonstop service to PVG/PEK from SEA. I think it will probably be 2024 or later before both carriers restore LAX-PVG. I think MSP-PVG is a nonstarter for Delta as is United's pre-covid proposed second daily EWR-PVG. I think it will take a few years before we seen United resume ORD-China and IAD-China. I think Delta will more than likely take a cautious approach as well in resuming nonstop DTW-China as well as ATL-PVG. American Airlines has all but given up on China, I doubt seriously we will see them resume SEA-PVG, I think their routes to China will be limited to DFW-PVG and DFW-PEK as they have already given up on LAX-China.

When it comes to slots I don't think any US carrier is going to be bidding for more slots to China in the near term.

BB78710 wrote:

Right now there are China and US imposed frequency restrictions in place and China is still requiring all international arriving passenger to quarantine for 3 day either at home or in their own hotel room. This is a vast improvement but at this point if the quarantine requirement remains in place it is highly unlikely US carriers will be jumping to add a ton of frequency at the end of March also the US just put a testing requirement for passengers returning from China, they all must show a negative COVID test before boarding.

China is lifting all quarantine requirements for all inbound international travel as of Jan 8 2023. This will have a big impact on outbound Chinese citizen/resident travel as they no longer have to quarantine when returning. It's not clear what this means for tourist travel from other countries to China as the Chinese government hasn't mentioned anything about resumption of tourist visa issuance, but certainly outbound Chinese travel will be huge, as well as inbound from Chinese citizens living abroad who may not have been able to go home for the past three years.

jb1087xna wrote:

rjbesikof wrote:

What I would like to see:
-More East Coast-Hawaii

ATL-OGG is operating for most the year. I believe 5x/week. Looks like the equipment is a 76K at this point anyway.

I was thinking something like JFK/MSP-OGG.

Boeing757100 wrote:

AviationScorpio wrote:

Any news on ATL/LAX-PVG and SEA-PKX?

I thought the flights to PVG operate via ICN, which has service to ATL/DTW/MSP/PDX/SEA on DL.

PDX-ICN is not operating

As of right now DL will be seeing a peak of 630 weekly TATL departures, up from last year’s 545.

AdEd wrote:

As of right now DL will be seeing a peak of 630 weekly TATL departures, up from last year’s 545.

What was the number of weekly flights in 2019?

ScroogeMcDuck wrote:

AdEd wrote:

As of right now DL will be seeing a peak of 630 weekly TATL departures, up from last year’s 545.

What was the number of weekly flights in 2019?

That's another situation where it's going to be better to look at seats and seat-miles rather than departures as 339s/359s have replaced 767s on TATL.

panamair wrote:

BB78710 wrote:

Right now there are China and US imposed frequency restrictions in place and China is still requiring all international arriving passenger to quarantine for 3 day either at home or in their own hotel room. This is a vast improvement but at this point if the quarantine requirement remains in place it is highly unlikely US carriers will be jumping to add a ton of frequency at the end of March also the US just put a testing requirement for passengers returning from China, they all must show a negative COVID test before boarding.

China is lifting all quarantine requirements for all inbound international travel as of Jan 8 2023. This will have a big impact on outbound Chinese citizen/resident travel as they no longer have to quarantine when returning. It's not clear what this means for tourist travel from other countries to China as the Chinese government hasn't mentioned anything about resumption of tourist visa issuance, but certainly outbound Chinese travel will be huge, as well as inbound from Chinese citizens living abroad who may not have been able to go home for the past three years.

I didn't know they completely abandoned quarantine I thought I read somewhere they were going from 5+3 down to 0+3, getting rid of the quarantining in a government facility all together and just asking people to quarantine 3 days either at home on in their own private hotel.
If quarantine is completely off the table there will be a rise in traffic but no where near enough to justify the March 25th schedules both Delta and United currently have open for sale.
And you're right there has been no mention on when China will resume issuing tourist visa's.

AviationScorpio wrote:

Perhaps some more domestic SEA expansion such as MIA/OMA/OAK/STL/DFW/IAH/SAT/PHL/CLT/EWR. Not saying all of those this year, but a selection from that list. Some of those domestic stations could be added out of BOS too.

I fly SEA-IAH at least once a month and have even gained United silver status flying that route exclusively, even though I already have Delta PM status.

What would it take for Delta to serve SEA-IAH? I know Alaska and United already serve it, but Delta also serves Chicago from SEA which is served by all the legacies + Alaska and Southwest from Midway.

Curious.

AdEd wrote:

As of right now DL will be seeing a peak of 630 weekly TATL departures, up from last year’s 545.

Thanks for the numbers. That's pretty impressive.

BB78710 wrote:

panamair wrote:

BB78710 wrote:

Right now there are China and US imposed frequency restrictions in place and China is still requiring all international arriving passenger to quarantine for 3 day either at home or in their own hotel room. This is a vast improvement but at this point if the quarantine requirement remains in place it is highly unlikely US carriers will be jumping to add a ton of frequency at the end of March also the US just put a testing requirement for passengers returning from China, they all must show a negative COVID test before boarding.

China is lifting all quarantine requirements for all inbound international travel as of Jan 8 2023. This will have a big impact on outbound Chinese citizen/resident travel as they no longer have to quarantine when returning. It's not clear what this means for tourist travel from other countries to China as the Chinese government hasn't mentioned anything about resumption of tourist visa issuance, but certainly outbound Chinese travel will be huge, as well as inbound from Chinese citizens living abroad who may not have been able to go home for the past three years.

I didn't know they completely abandoned quarantine I thought I read somewhere they were going from 5+3 down to 0+3, getting rid of the quarantining in a government facility all together and just asking people to quarantine 3 days either at home on in their own private hotel.
If quarantine is completely off the table there will be a rise in traffic but no where near enough to justify the March 25th schedules both Delta and United currently have open for sale.
And you're right there has been no mention on when China will resume issuing tourist visa's.

I posted this in another thread last week regarding China near-term recovery:

Business travel (and premium cabin traffic) is still going to be extremely slow to recover. I don’t think anyone, both employer or employee, are going to eager to travel to China for business purposes for the awhile, unless mission critical.
No one I know wants to travel there with the slightest risk they may change the rules or “move the goalposts” at the drop of the hat. No one wants to risk getting stuck there.

This will make it easier for the VFR crowd and international students, and inbound tourism from China. Don’t think it’s going to increase decressionary business or outbound leisure in the near-term.

I think some of the March / June recovery dates are going to be ambition.

It will be interesting to see when the airlines feel comfortable enough to be able to layover crews in China and drop the ICN crew-swap stops.

FlyingSicilian wrote:

airlineguy1234 wrote:

AviationScorpio wrote:

Perhaps some more domestic SEA expansion such as MIA/OMA/OAK/STL/DFW/IAH/SAT/PHL/CLT/EWR. Not saying all of those this year, but a selection from that list. Some of those domestic stations could be added out of BOS too.

I fly SEA-IAH at least once a month and have even gained United silver status flying that route exclusively, even though I already have Delta PM status.

What would it take for Delta to serve SEA-IAH? I know Alaska and United already serve it, but Delta also serves Chicago from SEA which is served by all the legacies + Alaska and Southwest from Midway.

Curious.

Rumors on the WN thread of SEA-HOU also.

Right now United and Alaska are both twice daily SEA-IAH but UA is slated to go 5x daily 738 in April. It could be hard for DL to compete, but I concur it seems like a slight hole in the network. It would be nice if DL built their own lounge at IAH in term A north also. AA put a very nice little lounge in A along with UA's of course.

Hard for DL to compete? Isn’t that what a huge and major airline like them is all about? This past year they finally added LAX-IAH which is a highly competitive route.

AviationScorpio wrote:

holeham wrote:

Please bring back TPA-AMS or TPA-CDG if adding at AMS is problematic.

This! Or maybe FLL-AMS/CDG so they can capture more if the SoFla market without actually making it look like they’re trying to stick it to AA by adding a route like out of MIA instead. I know MIA is their main focal point when it comes to this Latam JV and South American growth, but being only 20 miles away, FLL can play a part in that too.

DL goes back and forth between MIA and FLL as a soFla focal point. Worth noting DL has toyed with adding FLL-CDG before. Now the focus is MIA though, even though as of now FLL has a SEA nonstop and MIA doesn't (might be corproate related as Microsoft Latin American HQ is in FLL FWIW).

i don't get where the MIA (or even FLL really) focus city talk comes from. with maybe a couple exceptions, all the flights to/from MIA (and FLL) are to hubs or focus cities. The LATAM joint venture not withstanding, MIA isn't any more of a focus city for DL now than it was 10 years ago.

rjbesikof wrote:

jb1087xna wrote:

rjbesikof wrote:

What I would like to see:
-More East Coast-Hawaii

ATL-OGG is operating for most the year. I believe 5x/week. Looks like the equipment is a 76K at this point anyway.

I was thinking something like JFK/MSP-OGG.

Delta doesn't even operate MSP-HNL daily, I can't imagine they would throw resources at an OGG route when they aren't capitalizing/can't capitalize fully on HNL.

AdEd wrote:

As of right now DL will be seeing a peak of 630 weekly TATL departures, up from last year’s 545.

I do not have data on that. However as another poster mentioned the 767s have been greatly replaced with A330s and A350s on TATL. Even CDG operates predominantly with B767s through early 2020 (DL now uses A330/A350 to CDG from hubs).

With that said, the post-summer TATL operation is indeed more robust in Nov-Dec 2022 than it was in 2019, with more weekly departures.

Any prospects for DL launching BOS-MEX with a 220 in 2023, or beyond? I know AM and B6 have been in the market, the former a couple of times. I am wondering if the 220 would be a good fit for the market given the better economics it offers vs. the 320/737 that had been flown before.

BOS-MEX on DL would be a great add, it’s about the slots they have in MEX though. However JFK-PVR would be a great add to compete with B6 on.