Boeing 787 Production/Deliveries - 2023

edealinfo · Mon Mar 27, 2023 12:57 am

SouthComplex1 wrote:
Your second question about the Vistara LN1145, why are you doubtful it will not be delivered by the end of the month?

1. Because AA only now said that their deliveries are getting delayed. If this ripple effect of delays was something old, why announce it just now?
2. Two test flights for 2 1/2 hrs each seems insufficient compared to other post Ln 1127 aircraft.

WestWing · Mon Mar 27, 2023 1:20 am

The delivery of LN1114 78X N13014 completes all of United's previous 787 orders from before the Oct/Dec 2022 order for 100.

edealinfo · Mon Mar 27, 2023 1:44 am

WestWing wrote:
The delivery of LN1114 78X N13014 completes all of United's previous 787 orders from before the Oct/Dec 2022 order for 100.

when was it delivered?

ytib · Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:04 am

edealinfo wrote:
WestWing wrote:
The delivery of LN1114 78X N13014 completes all of United's previous 787 orders from before the Oct/Dec 2022 order for 100.

when was it delivered?

Friday March 24th
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N13014

SouthComplex1 · Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:56 am

edealinfo wrote:
SouthComplex1 wrote:
Your second question about the Vistara LN1145, why are you doubtful it will not be delivered by the end of the month?

1. Because AA only now said that their deliveries are getting delayed. If this ripple effect of delays was something old, why announce it just now?
2. Two test flights for 2 1/2 hrs each seems insufficient compared to other post Ln 1127 aircraft.

2. Why? Numerous number of new builds are handed over after just two test flights. Gotta be patient, LN1145 still possibly may be delivered in a few days.

jeffrey0032j · Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:17 am

edealinfo wrote:
SouthComplex1 wrote:
Your second question about the Vistara LN1145, why are you doubtful it will not be delivered by the end of the month?

1. Because AA only now said that their deliveries are getting delayed. If this ripple effect of delays was something old, why announce it just now?
2. Two test flights for 2 1/2 hrs each seems insufficient compared to other post Ln 1127 aircraft.

The minimum number of test flights needed is...........(drum roll)........2.

First flight must be a B1 flight.
Second flight can be a C1 flight.

Once customer is satisfied after C1, it could be delivered.

Hamlet69 · Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:48 am

SouthComplex1 wrote:
edealinfo wrote:

2. Why? Numerous number of new builds are handed over after just two test flights. Gotta be patient, LN1145 still possibly may be delivered in a few days.

I wouldn’t put much effort in to responding. This is a poster who started with a hypothesis without much fact, and is now desperately searching for some small fact to fit said hypothesis. Which is exactly the opposite of scientific reasoning.

qf789 · Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:41 am

Movements for 27 March 2023

Gulf Air 787-9 A9C-FJ LN1085, fifth test flight PAE-MWH-PAE as BOE273

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/a9c-fj

edealinfo · Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:59 am

qf789 wrote:
Movements for 27 March 2023

Gulf Air 787-9 A9C-FJ LN1085, fifth test flight PAE-MWH-PAE as BOE273

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/a9c-fj

Just one? When one would expect more given that the end of the quarter is a few days away and Boeing presumably wants to increase deliveries so it shows up in its quarterly report.

JohanTally · Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:23 am

edealinfo wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Movements for 27 March 2023

Gulf Air 787-9 A9C-FJ LN1085, fifth test flight PAE-MWH-PAE as BOE273

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/a9c-fj

Just one? When one would expect more given that the end of the quarter is a few days away and Boeing presumably wants to increase deliveries so it shows up in its quarterly report.

The airplanes that Boeing expects to deliver in Q1 may have already had all the flights needed minus customer flights. If there are 4 or so airplanes ready then wed-fri may be busy flight wise assuming airlines are prepared to receive them. Boeing may want them delivered in Q1 but airlines might want them in Q2 and with a multitude of delays the airlines may have leverage.

edealinfo · Tue Mar 28, 2023 2:31 am

JohanTally wrote:
Boeing may want them delivered in Q1 but airlines might want them in Q2 and with a multitude of delays the airlines may have leverage.

What would be the benefit to the airline in receiving it next week (Q2) as opposed to this week (Q1)?

qf789 · Tue Mar 28, 2023 2:46 am

edealinfo wrote:
JohanTally wrote:
Boeing may want them delivered in Q1 but airlines might want them in Q2 and with a multitude of delays the airlines may have leverage.

What would be the benefit to the airline in receiving it next week (Q2) as opposed to this week (Q1)?

Seriously give it a rest, they will be delivered when the airlines are ready for them as already mentioned above, until then deal with it and leave the ongoing repetitive questions out of the discussion

HB-IWC · Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:10 am

Hamlet69 wrote:
I wouldn’t put much effort in to responding. This is a poster who started with a hypothesis without much fact, and is now desperately searching for some small fact to fit said hypothesis. Which is exactly the opposite of scientific reasoning.

Thank you. Add to that a hysterical obsession with the delivery dates of the Vistara frames, and it's just better to ignore.

JayinKitsap · Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:30 am

[twoid][/twoid]

HB-IWC wrote:
Hamlet69 wrote:
I wouldn’t put much effort in to responding. This is a poster who started with a hypothesis without much fact, and is now desperately searching for some small fact to fit said hypothesis. Which is exactly the opposite of scientific reasoning.

Thank you. Add to that a hysterical obsession with the delivery dates of the Vistara frames, and it's just better to ignore.

There is a Fantasy Football aspect here, the aviation industry should stay far far from that. Rushing to deliver due to sales / PR / and accounting is where deficiencies and problems arise. Run the program as smoothly as possible, no cut corners, improve the build in a technically prudent manner.

There was a valid question on what is different between a Q1 delivery verses Q2. Lots of contracts have start dates, also days the plane delayed for compensation. A Quarter end has lots of ramifications, recording the delivery of a $100M could vaporize a $50M profit to a loss, but done right after the month moves that impact by 90 days. Also staffing, pilots, maintenance, insurance all need to be in place. The MFG and customer will have worked this out months ago with changes often as the date gets close.

FluidFlow · Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:35 am

Also contractual and physical delivery do not have to be on the same day. There are a lot of things to take into account.

HB-IWC · Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:51 am

qf789 wrote:
Movements for 27 March 2023

Gulf Air 787-9 A9C-FJ LN1085, fifth test flight PAE-MWH-PAE as BOE273

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/a9c-fj

Per the KPAE blog, this one is planned for delivery March 31.

MEA-707 · Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:07 am

qf789 wrote:
Movements for 24 March 2023

Air Canada 787-9 C-GWUU LN1147 ntu WestJet, first test flight CHS-CHS as BOE587

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/c-gwuu

Can the Air Canada 787 C-GWUU be seen as an NTU for WestJet? I have one source claiming it's the same metal, 64983/1147 originally being built for WestJet. But you can also reason it's built for Air Canada from scratch but just took over the LN 1147th spot from WestJet, especially as another source claims the MSN is different, 66991 instead. Perhaps 64893 will not be built, or will be built in 3 years if WestJet is doing well and decides to buy more 787s after all ?

SouthComplex1 · Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:45 pm

EVA Air 787-10 B-17811 LN1139 Fifth test flight CHS-CHS as BOE239

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/b-17811

A359bw · Wed Mar 29, 2023 6:49 am

According to rumors, the following 787-9s are to go to Lufthansa:

1036 / 66408 ex LO
1042 / 66162 ex UX
1046 / 62177 ex LO
1070 / 66163 ex UX
1090 / 66874 ex UX
1110 / 62522 ex UX
1120 / 62523 ex UX

HB-IWC · Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:34 am

A359bw wrote:
According to rumors, the following 787-9s are to go to Lufthansa:

1036 / 66408 ex LO
1042 / 66162 ex UX
1046 / 62177 ex LO
1070 / 66163 ex UX
1090 / 66874 ex UX
1110 / 62522 ex UX
1120 / 62523 ex UX

Are those on top of LN 955/971/983/988/992/1011/1028 that are mentioned on this reliable website:

https://sites.google.com/view/europeana ... /dlh/lhdlh

That would make another 14 frames for Lufthansa.

A359bw · Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:48 am

HB-IWC wrote:
A359bw wrote:
According to rumors, the following 787-9s are to go to Lufthansa:

1036 / 66408 ex LO
1042 / 66162 ex UX
1046 / 62177 ex LO
1070 / 66163 ex UX
1090 / 66874 ex UX
1110 / 62522 ex UX
1120 / 62523 ex UX

Are those on top of LN 955/971/983/988/992/1011/1028 that are mentioned on this reliable website:

https://sites.google.com/view/europeana ... /dlh/lhdlh

That would make another 14 frames for Lufthansa.

this will be the only way to get new aircrafts quickly at the moment

MoKa777 · Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:27 am

A359bw wrote:
HB-IWC wrote:
A359bw wrote:
According to rumors, the following 787-9s are to go to Lufthansa:

1036 / 66408 ex LO
1042 / 66162 ex UX
1046 / 62177 ex LO
1070 / 66163 ex UX
1090 / 66874 ex UX
1110 / 62522 ex UX
1120 / 62523 ex UX

Are those on top of LN 955/971/983/988/992/1011/1028 that are mentioned on this reliable website:

https://sites.google.com/view/europeana ... /dlh/lhdlh

That would make another 14 frames for Lufthansa.

this will be the only way to get new aircrafts quickly at the moment

So, what is the total number of 789s expected at LH now?

Will any of the NTUs and second-hand 789s leave when they receive their own orders?

PM · Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:44 am

MoKa777 wrote:

So, what is the total number of 789s expected at LH now?

39

The original order for 20 (RR) + an order for 5 ntu (GE) + another order for 7 ntu (RR) + the recent announcement that they are getting another 7 ntu.

HB-IWC · Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:14 am

The final one from the first order of 5 ntu is supposed to be delivered by the end of this week. LN913 D-ABPB is schedule for a 31MAR delivery.

frigatebird · Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:29 am

MoKa777 wrote:

Will any of the NTUs and second-hand 789s leave when they receive their own orders?

LH does not have any second hand 789 on order yet. It may be possible they are looking at some, but nothing has been confirmed. LH does have secondhand A359s (former PR aircraft returned to the lessor), and are rumored to take 4 ex JJ A359s which were returned to the lessor.

The NTU 789s are all additionally ordered to the original 20, as PM clarified in his post. LH has not indicated these will be stop gap solutions, so I don't expect them to leave their fleet anytime soon. Although the 5 GE powered 789s will be oddballs in the LH fleet, with different interiors (the other NTU's will get the new LH business class cabin), and different engines (if indeed 7 last ordered ones will also be RR powered, which would please PM very much

)

SouthComplex1 · Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:32 pm

Delivery flight Vistara 787-9 VT-TSP LN1145 CHS-DEL

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/vt-tsp

jeffrey0032j · Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:52 am

SouthComplex1 wrote:
Delivery flight Vistara 787-9 VT-TSP LN1145 CHS-DEL

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/vt-tsp

That will help resolve certain concerns discussed earlier in the thread.

airboss787 · Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:25 pm

jeffrey0032j wrote:
SouthComplex1 wrote:
Delivery flight Vistara 787-9 VT-TSP LN1145 CHS-DEL

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/vt-tsp

That will help resolve certain concerns discussed earlier in the thread.

This frame seems to be the one which will start service on BOM-LHR.

qf789 · Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:09 pm

Movements for 30 March 2023

Air Canada 787-9 C-GWUU LN1147, second test flight CHS-CHS as BOE587

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/c-gwuu

British Airways 787-10 G-ZBLE LN1072, fifth test flight CHS-MYR-CHS as BOE105

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/g-zble

Qatar Airways 787-9 A7-BHL LN1069, ferried VCV-PAE as BOE948

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/a7-bhl

Gulf Air 787-9 A9C-FJ LN1083, sixth test flight PAE-PAE as BOE273

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/a9c-fj

qf789 · Fri Mar 31, 2023 2:00 am

Lufthansa 787-9 D-ABPB LN913, due to be delivered later today as LH9822 around midday

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/d-abpb

JohanTally · Fri Mar 31, 2023 2:52 am

qf789 wrote:
Lufthansa 787-9 D-ABPB LN913, due to be delivered later today as LH9822 around midday

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/d-abpb

Your fr24 link is correct but the flight # is LH9922. Thank you for all the updates you have been providing.

qf789 · Fri Mar 31, 2023 4:39 am

Aeromexico 787-9 XA-DHN LN1125, delivered CHS-MEX as AM9445 (30 Mar), delivery #6 for March, #10 for 2023

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/xa-dhn

SouthComplex1 · Fri Mar 31, 2023 7:16 pm

Lufthansa 787-9 D-ABPB LN913, delivered PAE-FRA as LH9922, 7th delivery for March, #11 for the year

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/d-abpb

MileHFL400 · Fri Mar 31, 2023 7:40 pm

Wow that’s an impressive rebound month!

JayinKitsap · Sat Apr 01, 2023 1:13 am

Isn't the current rate at 7 month, if they keep this up it will be 75 for the year. Needs to go up still, but this far it is not the dire straights predicted earlier in this thread.

JohanTally · Sat Apr 01, 2023 1:28 am

JayinKitsap wrote:
Isn't the current rate at 7 month, if they keep this up it will be 75 for the year. Needs to go up still, but this far it is not the dire straights predicted earlier in this thread.

I believe they are at 3 per month currently with plans to go to 5/month later this year. Once the rework starts to wind down they can send more resources to new builds. But with the inventory the delivery rate could be 7/month or greater quite easily.

https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers ... 91.article

Avatar2go · Sat Apr 01, 2023 4:22 am

Stan Deal said this week that the 787 production ramp was on hold, while they stabilize the line with regard to some suppliers.

“We plan to do rate increases on the 787, but we want stability first,” he said. “We’ve got a couple suppliers we’re working with, making sure our factory is stable. You’ll see that turn up this year.”

https://m.aviationweek.com/air-transpor ... -deal-says

JayinKitsap · Sat Apr 01, 2023 4:29 am

JohanTally wrote:
JayinKitsap wrote:
Isn't the current rate at 7 month, if they keep this up it will be 75 for the year. Needs to go up still, but this far it is not the dire straights predicted earlier in this thread.

I believe they are at 3 per month currently with plans to go to 5/month later this year. Once the rework starts to wind down they can send more resources to new builds. But with the inventory the delivery rate could be 7/month or greater quite easily.

https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers ... 91.article

You are right Johan, I was thinking deliveries of about 3 per month new plus 4 per month from inventory. It would be nice if they can boost those from inventory, as there is a lot of value there, helping their margins.

Do you know how they are selecting from inventory - customer demand, easiest to fix, or in line order.

FlyingHonu001 · Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:03 am

MSN 42496 PH-BKI for KLM is set to be delivered soon, is there already a delivery date planned for CHS - AMS?

qf789 · Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:10 am

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
MSN 42496 PH-BKI for KLM is set to be delivered soon, is there already a delivery date planned for CHS - AMS?

It’s highly unlikely it will be delivered from CHS considering it’s currently at PAE

WestWing · Sat Apr 01, 2023 12:35 pm

N885BP LN1143 B788 was flown from VCV to DFW as AA9782 on March 31 so it will be recorded as formally delivered in March.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n885bp

edealinfo · Sat Apr 01, 2023 2:54 pm

SouthComplex1 wrote:
Lufthansa 787-9 D-ABPB LN913, delivered PAE-FRA as LH9922, 7th delivery for March, #11 for the year
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/d-abpb

- With AA's LN1143 delivery on Aug 31, that would take it to the 8th delivery for March and 12 for the quarter ending March 31.
- With delivery target of 80 for the year, this means an average of 7.56 deliveries per month are required from now through December.

JayinKitsap wrote:

Do you know how they are selecting from inventory - customer demand, easiest to fix, or in line order.

Super question; needs answers.
Also, does anyone know whether the expected 5 to 6 months average time from rework to delivery has changed?

JohanTally wrote:

I believe they are at 3 per month currently with plans to go to 5/month later this year. Once the rework starts to wind down they can send more resources to new builds. But with the inventory the delivery rate could be 7/month or greater quite easily.
https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers ... 91.article

Boeing has stated that pre-Ln 1127 inventory will be cleared out by the END OF 2024. Are you suggesting, however, that more inventory will now be frontloaded in 2023 given the production of new units is still stuck at around 3 a month?

WestWing · Sat Apr 01, 2023 2:59 pm

Just be aware that the N885BP LN1143 has already been counted in the 11 when it left CHS for VCV, so the March 31 flight does NOT make the total count 12. The AA 787-8s, from a bookkeeping perspective at Boeing are counted only after they leave VCV for an AA hub. Here we have been counting them when they leave PAE/CHS.

qf789 · Sat Apr 01, 2023 4:17 pm

Air Canada 787-9 C-GWUU LN1147, third test flight CHS-CHS as BOE587 (1 Apr)

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/c-gwuu

SouthComplex1 · Sat Apr 01, 2023 4:44 pm

edealinfo wrote:
SouthComplex1 wrote:
Lufthansa 787-9 D-ABPB LN913, delivered PAE-FRA as LH9922, 7th delivery for March, #11 for the year
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/d-abpb

- With AA's LN1143 delivery on Aug 31, that would take it to the 8th delivery for March and 12 for the quarter ending March 31.
- With delivery target of 80 for the year, this means an average of 7.56 deliveries per month are required from now through December.

JayinKitsap wrote:

Do you know how they are selecting from inventory - customer demand, easiest to fix, or in line order.

Super question; needs answers.
Also, does anyone know whether the expected 5 to 6 months average time from rework to delivery has changed?

JohanTally wrote:

I believe they are at 3 per month currently with plans to go to 5/month later this year. Once the rework starts to wind down they can send more resources to new builds. But with the inventory the delivery rate could be 7/month or greater quite easily.
https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers ... 91.article

Boeing has stated that pre-Ln 1127 inventory will be cleared out by the END OF 2024. Are you suggesting, however, that more inventory will now be frontloaded in 2023 given the production of new units is still stuck at around 3 a month?

As noted above by WestWing, LN1143 was delivered 17 March 2023 CHS-VCV contractually, 31 March flight from VCV-DFW would be considered “booked” as delivered. Including LN1143, total for March was 7, not 8. 11 total for the year so far.

2023 delivery target is 70-80. With 11 delivered, 6.5/month Apr-Dec to reach 70. But again, numbers will fluctuate month to month throughout the year, with a usual surge at the end of quarters and in Dec.

kanban · Sat Apr 01, 2023 5:00 pm

Come on guys, the 2023 delivery plan is a TARGET!! Not locked in stone... Add in Murphy's Law, Shit Happens, Airline delays/closures, supplier hick-ups etc., Hurricanes and natural disasters, It may come to pass, it may be exceeded, but it's just a frigging TARGET. so quit hyperventilating over each data change.

SouthComplex1 · Sat Apr 01, 2023 5:23 pm

kanban wrote:
Come on guys, the 2023 delivery plan is a TARGET!! Not locked in stone... Add in Murphy's Law, Shit Happens, Airline delays/closures, supplier hick-ups etc., Hurricanes and natural disasters, It may come to pass, it may be exceeded, but it's just a frigging TARGET. so quit hyperventilating over each data change.

Exactly

edealinfo · Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:16 pm

Another delivery. SQ
https://twitter.com/NikPhillips666/stat ... 4173433859

WestWing · Sun Apr 02, 2023 1:41 am

At the end of 1Q23, the number of undelivered 787s with LN < 1127 is now 86 (5 x 787-8 + 64 x 787-9 + 17 x 787-10). This undelivered total includes LN688, LN1118 which have not yet flown and LN1085 A9C-FJ (Gulf Air) which is evidently still at PAE at the time of this post. Eight 787s with LN < 1127 were delivered in 2023 so far.

SouthComplex1 · Mon Apr 03, 2023 5:43 pm

Movements 3 April 2023:

British Airways 787-10 G-ZBLE LN1072 CHS-CHS as BOE105

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/g-zble

British Airways 787-10 G-ZBLD LN1040 PAE-MWH-PAE as BOE104

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/g-zbld

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