A359bw wrote:The 6th 787-9 for LH will be LN1011 (ex Norwegian), which will be handed over in Q3 2023, including the new Allegris cabin.
I wonder if LH is taking LN's 955, 971 and 983 all four ex Norwegian.
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A359bw wrote:The 6th 787-9 for LH will be LN1011 (ex Norwegian), which will be handed over in Q3 2023, including the new Allegris cabin.
Avatar2go wrote:edealinfo wrote:
Thanks for this info although my inquiry on time from "pre-flight prep" to delivery, was for a Line numbers after 1127 that don't need any rework. I assuming from your response above that this too can take 3 to 6 weeks?
I believe so, but you can read the article and draw your own conclusions from Guy's reporting. He said it depends on non-conformances and any flaws identified by the customer.
TK773ER wrote:MSN / LN - 64224 / 1119 A7-BHP 787-9 Ferried VCV-PAE 21Jan23
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/a7-bhp
edealinfo wrote:Avatar2go wrote:edealinfo wrote:
Thanks for this info although my inquiry on time from "pre-flight prep" to delivery, was for a Line numbers after 1127 that don't need any rework. I assuming from your response above that this too can take 3 to 6 weeks?
I believe so, but you can read the article and draw your own conclusions from Guy's reporting. He said it depends on non-conformances and any flaws identified by the customer.
Firstly, thanks for your response. My question relates to aircraft that don't need rework so I thought it would be shorter than 3 to 6 weeks.TK773ER wrote:MSN / LN - 64224 / 1119 A7-BHP 787-9 Ferried VCV-PAE 21Jan23
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/a7-bhp
Wow, isn't that the 33rd 787 pulled out of storage, of the 93 pre Line #1127 not-yet-delivered stored 787s?
It seems to be that they are pulling out far too many 787s that they can work on. PAE can only accommodate 9 787s in the 747 assembly line. Do they intend to complete rework at a faster speed than previously anticipated? Or, are they just emptying VCV of stored 787s?
jeffrey0032j wrote:The 747 line is in addition to the existing 787 line at PAE.
edealinfo wrote:jeffrey0032j wrote:The 747 line is in addition to the existing 787 line at PAE.
I thought they shut that down because production of new 787s was moved and consolidated in South Carolina.
jeffrey0032j wrote:edealinfo wrote:jeffrey0032j wrote:The 747 line is in addition to the existing 787 line at PAE.
I thought they shut that down because production of new 787s was moved and consolidated in South Carolina.
Production of new frames have shifted to CHS, but the line has been marked for and used for rework ever since the last frame rolled out. The recent addition of the 747 line provides additional capacity for rework at PAE.
TK773ER wrote:A359bw wrote:The 6th 787-9 for LH will be LN1011 (ex Norwegian), which will be handed over in Q3 2023, including the new Allegris cabin.
I wonder if LH is taking LN's 955, 971 and 983 all four ex Norwegian.
JJWess wrote:This has probably been answered, but if a customer were to place a 787 order today, how long would it be until they receive it?
My understanding is that Boeing is working on getting the undelivered 787’s reworked first before building new ones…?
scbriml wrote:JJWess wrote:This has probably been answered, but if a customer were to place a 787 order today, how long would it be until they receive it?
My understanding is that Boeing is working on getting the undelivered 787’s reworked first before building new ones…?
There’s really no definitive answer and it would depend on a lot of different factors. Who the customer is; how many frames; what are they prepared to accept; etc.
Leeham recently reported that some customers have been told they face an additional 15 month delay in receiving 787s.
fun2fly wrote:scbriml wrote:JJWess wrote:This has probably been answered, but if a customer were to place a 787 order today, how long would it be until they receive it?
My understanding is that Boeing is working on getting the undelivered 787’s reworked first before building new ones…?
There’s really no definitive answer and it would depend on a lot of different factors. Who the customer is; how many frames; what are they prepared to accept; etc.
Leeham recently reported that some customers have been told they face an additional 15 month delay in receiving 787s.
United ordered their 100 frames last month and will get some in late 2024.
TK773ER wrote:MIAT Mongolian Airlines ferried for storage MSN 66877 787-9 N8572C 6th flight CHS-SKF
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/boe581
scbriml wrote:JJWess wrote:This has probably been answered, but if a customer were to place a 787 order today, how long would it be until they receive it?
My understanding is that Boeing is working on getting the undelivered 787’s reworked first before building new ones…?
There’s really no definitive answer and it would depend on a lot of different factors. Who the customer is; how many frames; what are they prepared to accept; etc.
Leeham recently reported that some customers have been told they face an additional 15 month delay in receiving 787s.
TK773ER wrote:MIAT Mongolian Airlines ferried for storage MSN 66877 787-9 N8572C 6th flight CHS-SKF
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/boe581
edealinfo wrote:TK773ER wrote:MIAT Mongolian Airlines ferried for storage MSN 66877 787-9 N8572C 6th flight CHS-SKF
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/boe581
This is shocking. This is Line 1128 which means that it was made to exacting specifications (no re-work needed). For the life of me, I can't understand why Boeing completes an entire plane, goes through all the phases with equipment, supplies and valuable man power, to assemble an aircraft for which it knows the customer won't take delivery right away. Couldn't they have instead swapped that production spot for an airline customer who needed one ASAP, and there are many of them?
Sorry to say that Line # 1127 (AerCap - Ethiopian) & 1128 (ALC - MIAT) are both in storage! Why aren't the lessors placing it with other airlines?
edealinfo wrote:Sorry to say that Line # 1127 (AerCap - Ethiopian) & 1128 (ALC - MIAT) are both in storage! Why aren't the lessors placing it with other airlines?
edealinfo wrote:
This is shocking. This is Line 1128 which means that it was made to exacting specifications (no re-work needed). For the life of me, I can't understand why Boeing completes an entire plane, goes through all the phases with equipment, supplies and valuable man power, to assemble an aircraft for which it knows the customer won't take delivery right away. Couldn't they have instead swapped that production spot for an airline customer who needed one ASAP, and there are many of them?
Sorry to say that Line # 1127 (AerCap - Ethiopian) & 1128 (ALC - MIAT) are both in storage! Why aren't the lessors placing it with other airlines?
TK773ER wrote:edealinfo wrote:TK773ER wrote:MIAT Mongolian Airlines ferried for storage MSN 66877 787-9 N8572C 6th flight CHS-SKF
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/boe581
This is shocking. This is Line 1128 which means that it was made to exacting specifications (no re-work needed). For the life of me, I can't understand why Boeing completes an entire plane, goes through all the phases with equipment, supplies and valuable man power, to assemble an aircraft for which it knows the customer won't take delivery right away. Couldn't they have instead swapped that production spot for an airline customer who needed one ASAP, and there are many of them?
Sorry to say that Line # 1127 (AerCap - Ethiopian) & 1128 (ALC - MIAT) are both in storage! Why aren't the lessors placing it with other airlines?
I hear you, Looking at Pre Flight frames below possibly add more to the stored list;
1135 787-9 AerCap Ethiopian Airlines
1139 787-10 Eva Air
1140 787-8 Japan Airlines
1142 787-10 Eva Air
FAL and about to enter FAL
1147 787-9 WestJet this one will most like join LN 1116 as NTU.
1150 787-9 Etihad Airways
1153 787-10 KLM - Royal Dutch Airlines
1158 787-9 Etihad Airways
1160 787-9 Etihad Airways
1163 787-9 Etihad Airways
Singapore Airlines also has LN's 1144, 1148, 1155, 1157, 1161 and 1165 with two being delivered by March 2023 not sure on further delivery's beyond the two , SIA also has LN's 1000, 1066 and 1080 stored with 1080 recently pulled out of storage and into rework. Boeing's O&D sheet has SIA with eight remaining on order.
Who knows a good dozen new builds ending up in storage again.
TK773ER wrote:edealinfo wrote:TK773ER wrote:MIAT Mongolian Airlines ferried for storage MSN 66877 787-9 N8572C 6th flight CHS-SKF
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/boe581
This is shocking. This is Line 1128 which means that it was made to exacting specifications (no re-work needed). For the life of me, I can't understand why Boeing completes an entire plane, goes through all the phases with equipment, supplies and valuable man power, to assemble an aircraft for which it knows the customer won't take delivery right away. Couldn't they have instead swapped that production spot for an airline customer who needed one ASAP, and there are many of them?
Sorry to say that Line # 1127 (AerCap - Ethiopian) & 1128 (ALC - MIAT) are both in storage! Why aren't the lessors placing it with other airlines?
I hear you, Looking at Pre Flight frames below possibly add more to the stored list;
1135 787-9 AerCap Ethiopian Airlines
1139 787-10 Eva Air
1140 787-8 Japan Airlines
1142 787-10 Eva Air
FAL and about to enter FAL
1147 787-9 WestJet this one will most like join LN 1116 as NTU.
1150 787-9 Etihad Airways
1153 787-10 KLM - Royal Dutch Airlines
1158 787-9 Etihad Airways
1160 787-9 Etihad Airways
1163 787-9 Etihad Airways
Singapore Airlines also has LN's 1144, 1148, 1155, 1157, 1161 and 1165 with two being delivered by March 2023 not sure on further delivery's beyond the two , SIA also has LN's 1000, 1066 and 1080 stored with 1080 recently pulled out of storage and into rework. Boeing's O&D sheet has SIA with eight remaining on order.
Who knows a good dozen new builds ending up in storage again.
edealinfo wrote:TK773ER wrote:MIAT Mongolian Airlines ferried for storage MSN 66877 787-9 N8572C 6th flight CHS-SKF
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/boe581
This is shocking. This is Line 1128 which means that it was made to exacting specifications (no re-work needed). For the life of me, I can't understand why Boeing completes an entire plane, goes through all the phases with equipment, supplies and valuable man power, to assemble an aircraft for which it knows the customer won't take delivery right away. Couldn't they have instead swapped that production spot for an airline customer who needed one ASAP, and there are many of them?
Sorry to say that Line # 1127 (AerCap - Ethiopian) & 1128 (ALC - MIAT) are both in storage! Why aren't the lessors placing it with other airlines?
NZ321 wrote:TK773ER wrote:edealinfo wrote:
This is shocking. This is Line 1128 which means that it was made to exacting specifications (no re-work needed). For the life of me, I can't understand why Boeing completes an entire plane, goes through all the phases with equipment, supplies and valuable man power, to assemble an aircraft for which it knows the customer won't take delivery right away. Couldn't they have instead swapped that production spot for an airline customer who needed one ASAP, and there are many of them?
Sorry to say that Line # 1127 (AerCap - Ethiopian) & 1128 (ALC - MIAT) are both in storage! Why aren't the lessors placing it with other airlines?
I hear you, Looking at Pre Flight frames below possibly add more to the stored list;
1135 787-9 AerCap Ethiopian Airlines
1139 787-10 Eva Air
1140 787-8 Japan Airlines
1142 787-10 Eva Air
FAL and about to enter FAL
1147 787-9 WestJet this one will most like join LN 1116 as NTU.
1150 787-9 Etihad Airways
1153 787-10 KLM - Royal Dutch Airlines
1158 787-9 Etihad Airways
1160 787-9 Etihad Airways
1163 787-9 Etihad Airways
Singapore Airlines also has LN's 1144, 1148, 1155, 1157, 1161 and 1165 with two being delivered by March 2023 not sure on further delivery's beyond the two , SIA also has LN's 1000, 1066 and 1080 stored with 1080 recently pulled out of storage and into rework. Boeing's O&D sheet has SIA with eight remaining on order.
Who knows a good dozen new builds ending up in storage again.
Now that's interesting reading. SQ have so many completed frames awaiting final testing and delivery?
edealinfo wrote:For the life of me, I can't understand why Boeing completes an entire plane, goes through all the phases with equipment, supplies and valuable man power, to assemble an aircraft for which it knows the customer won't take delivery right away.
edealinfo wrote:Couldn't they have instead swapped that production spot for an airline customer who needed one ASAP, and there are many of them?
jeffrey0032j wrote:The production roll out is currently at 1145, anything above it has not been completed yet.
jbs2886 wrote:What's the best source for 787 production lists? ABCD list isn't great. I thought I had one bookmarked, but can't find it. Thanks in advance.
Stitch wrote:A fair bit of kit in a 787 (or any other modern commercial airliner) is referred to as BFE - Buyer Furnished Equipment. Items like seats, lavatories, galleys, IFE, APUs and many avionics systems are ordered by the customer and then scheduled for delivery when the airframe is entering production. So even if there are customers who want 787s as quickly as possible, the customer-specific BFE is not available so it is not possible for Boeing to assemble an NTU frame in their airline configuration at that moment.
kanban wrote:There is a belief that the 787 sections arrive at the FAL empty and conversion is simple because it'e an empty shell.. not the case, the sections are stuffed with as much systems hardware and BFE as possible.. it's much easier to install lavs and galleys when you can roll them in the end of the tube versus disassembling them and squeezing through the passenger doors. I think the sections come with all the electrical and hydraulic systems installed. the main wire bundle is specifically configured for the customer cabin plan and converting may mean a new bundle. .
Stitch wrote:It is called "Just in Time Manufacturing" and it is a system where all the components needed to assemble a 787 airframe are scheduled to arrive at specific date points so that the frame moves as smoothly through production as possible.
TK773ER wrote:With January slipping away would it be fair to say one more delivery to Qatar A7-BHI for a total of three this month.
From February onwards would six per month be the average including reworked and factory fresh or is ten per month more accurate ?
shuck wrote:Please can anyone provide a flight number and destination for N881BK on delivery from VCV on 8/11/22.
Thanks
Scoreboard wrote:shuck wrote:Please can anyone provide a flight number and destination for N881BK on delivery from VCV on 8/11/22.
Thanks
FR24 shows
24Oct22 CHS-VCV AA9824 flight time 4:25
08Nov22 VCV-MIA AA9780 flight time 4:04
And it has been busy ever since entering service on 09Nov22, but still to visit my local (LHR)
qf789 wrote:Boeing has delayed plans to resume production of 5 787’s per month till later this year due to supply constraints but is still expecting to deliver 70-80 787’s for 2023
https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers ... tid=Zxz2cZ
edealinfo wrote:So, that translates to an average delivery rate of 6.25 787s a month. For these deliveries, is there a guesstimate of the mix/ ratio of reworked 787s to brand new 787s?
TK773ER wrote:MSN 38470 LN 1092 787-9 CC-BGR ferried VCV-CHS
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/cc-bgr
TK773ER wrote:MSN 38470 LN 1092 787-9 CC-BGR ferried VCV-CHS
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/cc-bgr
Avatar2go wrote:edealinfo wrote:So, that translates to an average delivery rate of 6.25 787s a month. For these deliveries, is there a guesstimate of the mix/ ratio of reworked 787s to brand new 787s?
In the earnings call guidance, they said that 787 production would not exceed 5 per month, and that would not be until later in the year. So they may wind up in the realm of 40 to 50 new aircraft, with 30 to 40 coming out of inventory.
But production is still tied to supply chain issues, so it will continue to be bumpy. They mentioned that if production has to pause, they transfer people to rework activities, as there is no shortage of work.
https://m.marketscreener.com/quote/stoc ... -42812015/
edealinfo wrote:TK773ER wrote:MSN 38470 LN 1092 787-9 CC-BGR ferried VCV-CHS
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/cc-bgr
Frankly, the rate at which they are pulling 787s out of storage is puzzling. So, isn't this like 34 out of 93 that Boeing pulled out of storage. But, deliveries are not at the same high rate at which aircraft are being pulled out. Something doesn't add up. Hope someone can figure it out.
edealinfo wrote:Supply chain issues apply to both new and aircraft for which rework is done. Having said that, your ratio of new to reworked aircraft for delivery in 2023 seems off. I'm thinking at minimum it will be a 1 : 2 ratio meaning something like 25 new to 50 reworked aircraft delivered in 2023. remember Boeing said it would deliver all of the stored 787s by 2024 so it is likely that at least 50% of the 93 will be delivered in 2023.
Avatar2go wrote:edealinfo wrote:Supply chain issues apply to both new and aircraft for which rework is done. Having said that, your ratio of new to reworked aircraft for delivery in 2023 seems off. I'm thinking at minimum it will be a 1 : 2 ratio meaning something like 25 new to 50 reworked aircraft delivered in 2023. remember Boeing said it would deliver all of the stored 787s by 2024 so it is likely that at least 50% of the 93 will be delivered in 2023.
That flies in the face of the guidance Boeing gave, but whatever, you can believe what you wish. The Boeing guidance for 2022 was about 30 jets, and they hit that on the nose.
There is no statement that 50% of the rework jets will be delivered in 2023, that is your assumption. More likely that 50% will be remediated.
The clearance of inventory by 2024 was for the rework jets, not those going into inventory from current production. There will still be inventory at the end of 2024, just not necessarily rework.
edealinfo wrote:
Boeing is barely completing 2 787s a month. Let me be generous and assume an average delivery of 3 brand new 787s for entire 2023. That would cover 36 aircraft out of 80 which means there would be 44 reworked delivered 787s. That's an extremely optimistic scenario for brand new new aircraft.
edealinfo wrote:TK773ER wrote:MSN 38470 LN 1092 787-9 CC-BGR ferried VCV-CHS
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/cc-bgr
Frankly, the rate at which they are pulling 787s out of storage is puzzling. So, isn't this like 34 out of 93 that Boeing pulled out of storage. But, deliveries are not at the same high rate at which aircraft are being pulled out. Something doesn't add up. Hope someone can figure it out.
Avatar2go wrote:edealinfo wrote:
Boeing is barely completing 2 787s a month. Let me be generous and assume an average delivery of 3 brand new 787s for entire 2023. That would cover 36 aircraft out of 80 which means there would be 44 reworked delivered 787s. That's an extremely optimistic scenario for brand new new aircraft.
Again that is the guidance, which may or may not occur, but is based on more than just your opinion. Since Boeing hit the number for 2022, I'll wait to see how close they come for 2023.
scbriml wrote:edealinfo wrote:TK773ER wrote:MSN 38470 LN 1092 787-9 CC-BGR ferried VCV-CHS
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/cc-bgr
Frankly, the rate at which they are pulling 787s out of storage is puzzling. So, isn't this like 34 out of 93 that Boeing pulled out of storage. But, deliveries are not at the same high rate at which aircraft are being pulled out. Something doesn't add up. Hope someone can figure it out.
What doesn't add up? Moving planes from a 3rd-party storage facility to a Boeing-owned site where there's sufficient space (and the rework will be done) will be saving Boeing money.