Brickell305 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

so JFK-SKB/BZE make a lot of sense. It just completes their Caribbean map. I've lost track of which airports they don't serve.

RDU-MCO brings back a rather under performing COVID route that I don't see getting any better. They also still have RDU-CUN 2x weekly and brought back RDU-SJU a while back. Maybe those are showing good bookings. Or maybe they just need to show MCO that they are going to expand.

Other 2 are just really utilization plays for mint aircraft

Restricting this to airports to which B6 could operate, I believe it’s down to:

FDF
SVD
TAB
Non-HAV Cuba
PBM (if considered Caribbean)

Are these the only islands that B6 doesn’t serve that can handle their aircraft?
What about DOM?

Brickell305 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

so JFK-SKB/BZE make a lot of sense. It just completes their Caribbean map. I've lost track of which airports they don't serve.

RDU-MCO brings back a rather under performing COVID route that I don't see getting any better. They also still have RDU-CUN 2x weekly and brought back RDU-SJU a while back. Maybe those are showing good bookings. Or maybe they just need to show MCO that they are going to expand.

Other 2 are just really utilization plays for mint aircraft

Restricting this to airports to which B6 could operate, I believe it’s down to:

FDF
SVD
TAB
Non-HAV Cuba
PBM (if considered Caribbean)

When things calm down in Haiti, I would add CAP (Cap Haitien)

18C36C wrote:

Brickell305 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

so JFK-SKB/BZE make a lot of sense. It just completes their Caribbean map. I've lost track of which airports they don't serve.

RDU-MCO brings back a rather under performing COVID route that I don't see getting any better. They also still have RDU-CUN 2x weekly and brought back RDU-SJU a while back. Maybe those are showing good bookings. Or maybe they just need to show MCO that they are going to expand.

Other 2 are just really utilization plays for mint aircraft

Restricting this to airports to which B6 could operate, I believe it’s down to:

FDF
SVD
TAB
Non-HAV Cuba
PBM (if considered Caribbean)

Are these the only islands that B6 doesn’t serve that can handle their aircraft?
What about DOM?

I’m not 100% sure B6’s current fleet can do DOM. I know AA does it out of MIA with an E175. Not sure if the A220 or E190 can do it. That’s why I left it off. Same for AXA and EIS. AA does them out of MIA but not sure B6’s fleet can.

phatfarmlines wrote:

Brickell305 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

so JFK-SKB/BZE make a lot of sense. It just completes their Caribbean map. I've lost track of which airports they don't serve.

RDU-MCO brings back a rather under performing COVID route that I don't see getting any better. They also still have RDU-CUN 2x weekly and brought back RDU-SJU a while back. Maybe those are showing good bookings. Or maybe they just need to show MCO that they are going to expand.

Other 2 are just really utilization plays for mint aircraft

Restricting this to airports to which B6 could operate, I believe it’s down to:

FDF
SVD
TAB
Non-HAV Cuba
PBM (if considered Caribbean)

When things calm down in Haiti, I would add CAP (Cap Haitien)

I forgot CAP. Good catch.

Saw an article on new B6 routes. While cool to see new routes and destinations to be added by anyone (especially LAX-NAS in this case), MCO-RDU is the most interesting. Shot across Avelos bow?

https://thepointsguy.com/news/jetblue-n ... caribbean/

(Also posted in the Avelo thread)

Bonaire is also not yet served.

TWA772LR wrote:

Saw an article on new B6 routes. While cool to see new routes and destinations to be added by anyone (especially LAX-NAS in this case), MCO-RDU is the most interesting. Shot across Avelos bow?

https://thepointsguy.com/news/jetblue-n ... caribbean/

(Also posted in the Avelo thread)

MCO-RDU is a race to the bottom, not sure what they’re trying to achieve here. This will for sure be a loss leader for B6.

EADSYABSOB73857 wrote:

TWA772LR wrote:

Saw an article on new B6 routes. While cool to see new routes and destinations to be added by anyone (especially LAX-NAS in this case), MCO-RDU is the most interesting. Shot across Avelos bow?

https://thepointsguy.com/news/jetblue-n ... caribbean/

(Also posted in the Avelo thread)

MCO-RDU is a race to the bottom, not sure what they’re trying to achieve here. This will for sure be a loss leader for B6.

I was at their MCO terminal a week ago. Nice and big and not enough flights. I would imagine some of this is pushed by OIA to increase their schedule out there since they are headlining the new Terminal C

It would be interesting to see what happens after NEA gets unraveled. Where those aircraft goes. I still think MCO is in the back burners

phatfarmlines wrote:

Brickell305 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

so JFK-SKB/BZE make a lot of sense. It just completes their Caribbean map. I've lost track of which airports they don't serve.

RDU-MCO brings back a rather under performing COVID route that I don't see getting any better. They also still have RDU-CUN 2x weekly and brought back RDU-SJU a while back. Maybe those are showing good bookings. Or maybe they just need to show MCO that they are going to expand.

Other 2 are just really utilization plays for mint aircraft

Restricting this to airports to which B6 could operate, I believe it’s down to:

FDF
SVD
TAB
Non-HAV Cuba
PBM (if considered Caribbean)

When things calm down in Haiti, I would add CAP (Cap Haitien)

then the question is how much demand there is from JFK to these airports. I can see FDF & SVD working 3x weekly. non-HAV cuba is probably off B6's list for a while.

I'd say CAP is more likely than TAB. Both in both cases, they probably would increase flights to PSO and PAP before trying additional airports.

So out of this, SVD most likely imo

out of central america, there are some major ones:
MEX
SAP
PTY
SAL

Those seem bigger holes than more Caribbean flights

tphuang wrote:

phatfarmlines wrote:

Brickell305 wrote:

Restricting this to airports to which B6 could operate, I believe it’s down to:

FDF
SVD
TAB
Non-HAV Cuba
PBM (if considered Caribbean)

When things calm down in Haiti, I would add CAP (Cap Haitien)

then the question is how much demand there is from JFK to these airports. I can see FDF & SVD working 3x weekly. non-HAV cuba is probably off B6's list for a while.

I'd say CAP is more likely than TAB. Both in both cases, they probably would increase flights to PSO and PAP before trying additional airports.

So out of this, SVD most likely imo

out of central america, there are some major ones:
MEX
SAP
PTY
SAL

Those seem bigger holes than more Caribbean flights

Also forgot that B6 pulled out of LRM and STX, so there's those markets if B6 wants to try them again with 220s.

tphuang wrote:

phatfarmlines wrote:

Brickell305 wrote:

Restricting this to airports to which B6 could operate, I believe it’s down to:

FDF
SVD
TAB
Non-HAV Cuba
PBM (if considered Caribbean)

When things calm down in Haiti, I would add CAP (Cap Haitien)

then the question is how much demand there is from JFK to these airports. I can see FDF & SVD working 3x weekly. non-HAV cuba is probably off B6's list for a while.

I'd say CAP is more likely than TAB. Both in both cases, they probably would increase flights to PSO and PAP before trying additional airports.

So out of this, SVD most likely imo

out of central america, there are some major ones:
MEX
SAP
PTY
SAL

Those seem bigger holes than more Caribbean flights

Didnt they announce flights to SAP? Whatever happened to that?

tphuang wrote:

so JFK-SKB/BZE make a lot of sense. It just completes their Caribbean map. I've lost track of which airports they don't serve.

Grand Turk?

tphuang wrote:

phatfarmlines wrote:

Brickell305 wrote:

Restricting this to airports to which B6 could operate, I believe it’s down to:

FDF
SVD
TAB
Non-HAV Cuba
PBM (if considered Caribbean)

When things calm down in Haiti, I would add CAP (Cap Haitien)

then the question is how much demand there is from JFK to these airports. I can see FDF & SVD working 3x weekly. non-HAV cuba is probably off B6's list for a while.

I'd say CAP is more likely than TAB. Both in both cases, they probably would increase flights to PSO and PAP before trying additional airports.

So out of this, SVD most likely imo

out of central america, there are some major ones:
MEX
SAP
PTY
SAL

Those seem bigger holes than more Caribbean flights

They tried MEX but it was unsuccessful.
I believe SAP was served less than daily prior to COVID. (Someone correct me if I’m wrong)

STT757 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

so JFK-SKB/BZE make a lot of sense. It just completes their Caribbean map. I've lost track of which airports they don't serve.

Grand Turk?

RTB has not been mentioned yet. Like BZE its Central America but on the Caribbean.

yeah they announced SAP and then just never put it on sale.

MEX was unsuccessful, but I think it's such a large market that they have to serve it.

Grand Turk is so tiny, I don't see why they'd want to serve it. PLS is enough

tphuang wrote:

yeah they announced SAP and then just never put it on sale.

MEX was unsuccessful, but I think it's such a large market that they have to serve it.

Grand Turk is so tiny, I don't see why they'd want to serve it. PLS is enough

On the Central American side (we will not include Mexico since there are lot of unserved cities there), what is viable and left to serve it's RTB SAP XPL MGA PTY. LCE and FRS could handle A320s but those are probably not worth mentioning.

SAP-FLL/JFK seems like a no brainer. Though with NK being so strong in Honduras (mainland), they will get XPL and SAP by default. Likewise with MGA.

LightChop2Chop wrote:

tphuang wrote:

yeah they announced SAP and then just never put it on sale.

MEX was unsuccessful, but I think it's such a large market that they have to serve it.

Grand Turk is so tiny, I don't see why they'd want to serve it. PLS is enough

On the Central American side (we will not include Mexico since there are lot of unserved cities there), what is viable and left to serve it's RTB SAP XPL MGA PTY. LCE and FRS could handle A320s but those are probably not worth mentioning.

SAP-FLL/JFK seems like a no brainer. Though with NK being so strong in Honduras (mainland), they will get XPL and SAP by default. Likewise with MGA.

I think JetBlue is sort of at the “Europe or bust” point in their growth strategy. For now it’s easier to just connect the dots and focus on shoring up existing strongholds within the network. They feel pretty confident the merger is going to pass and the amount of capital they’re going to need for integration is going to hurt for quarters upon quarters. If it isn’t Europe, I think it’s best to hold out and add growth in new markets by inheriting them from NK.

Totally forgot about SAP. Did they announce that they dropped the route?

Does anyone know the what the demand is for LAX-NAS? This route does seem like a head scratcher but B6 isn’t one just to throw a plane on a route just because. They must feel that they can make more money on this route rather then add another flight to S. Florida from LA on a Saturday.

FARmd90 wrote:

Does anyone know the what the demand is for LAX-NAS? This route does seem like a head scratcher but B6 isn’t one just to throw a plane on a route just because. They must feel that they can make more money on this route rather then add another flight to S. Florida from LA on a Saturday.

As a longtime Angeleno resident I am downright shocked to see this one - on a Mint aircraft, no less! Someone else suggested this was simply a utilization exercise since transcon demand is lower on Saturdays (the only day this flight will operate).

I expected to perhaps see B6 try LAX-SJU nonstop - it's been flown before, by TW as well as AA, but isn't served by anyone today - but never thought I would see a nonstop to Nassau!

SurfandSnow wrote:

FARmd90 wrote:

Does anyone know the what the demand is for LAX-NAS? This route does seem like a head scratcher but B6 isn’t one just to throw a plane on a route just because. They must feel that they can make more money on this route rather then add another flight to S. Florida from LA on a Saturday.

As a longtime Angeleno resident I am downright shocked to see this one - on a Mint aircraft, no less! Someone else suggested this was simply a utilization exercise since transcon demand is lower on Saturdays (the only day this flight will operate).

I expected to perhaps see B6 try LAX-SJU nonstop - it's been flown before, by TW as well as AA, but isn't served by anyone today - but never thought I would see a nonstop to Nassau!

I assume they see a bunch of LAX-FLL-NAS booking or this wouldn't make sense at all.

LAX-SJU is pretty far. I'm not sure you can do it even with mint aircraft

tphuang wrote:

SurfandSnow wrote:

FARmd90 wrote:

Does anyone know the what the demand is for LAX-NAS? This route does seem like a head scratcher but B6 isn’t one just to throw a plane on a route just because. They must feel that they can make more money on this route rather then add another flight to S. Florida from LA on a Saturday.

As a longtime Angeleno resident I am downright shocked to see this one - on a Mint aircraft, no less! Someone else suggested this was simply a utilization exercise since transcon demand is lower on Saturdays (the only day this flight will operate).

I expected to perhaps see B6 try LAX-SJU nonstop - it's been flown before, by TW as well as AA, but isn't served by anyone today - but never thought I would see a nonstop to Nassau!

I assume they see a bunch of LAX-FLL-NAS booking or this wouldn't make sense at all.

LAX-SJU is pretty far. I'm not sure you can do it even with mint aircraft

A JetBlue's LAX-SJU could work efficently with A321LRs but with A321neo is more expensive to operate and doesn't garantize an efficent operation despite flights being full. The B6's A321LRs are all dedicated for JFK amd BOS flights to Europe.

ktarabay98 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

SurfandSnow wrote:

As a longtime Angeleno resident I am downright shocked to see this one - on a Mint aircraft, no less! Someone else suggested this was simply a utilization exercise since transcon demand is lower on Saturdays (the only day this flight will operate).

I expected to perhaps see B6 try LAX-SJU nonstop - it's been flown before, by TW as well as AA, but isn't served by anyone today - but never thought I would see a nonstop to Nassau!

I assume they see a bunch of LAX-FLL-NAS booking or this wouldn't make sense at all.

LAX-SJU is pretty far. I'm not sure you can do it even with mint aircraft

A JetBlue's LAX-SJU could work efficently with A321LRs but with A321neo is more expensive to operate and doesn't garantize an efficent operation despite flights being full. The B6's A321LRs are all dedicated for JFK amd BOS flights to Europe.

I myself have been wonder if we will see B6 jump into the LAX-SJU market and give it a shot again as I know it was served in the past. Remember B6 does have standard mint NEO aircraft’s as well that might be able to fly the route just fine.

I think the standard NEO has a range of 4,000nm and LAX-SJU is just shy of 3,000nm. Someone will have to correct me if I’m wrong. B6’s website says the 3NS has a range of 3,500nm

FARmd90 wrote:

ktarabay98 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

I assume they see a bunch of LAX-FLL-NAS booking or this wouldn't make sense at all.

LAX-SJU is pretty far. I'm not sure you can do it even with mint aircraft

A JetBlue's LAX-SJU could work efficently with A321LRs but with A321neo is more expensive to operate and doesn't garantize an efficent operation despite flights being full. The B6's A321LRs are all dedicated for JFK amd BOS flights to Europe.

I myself have been wonder if we will see B6 jump into the LAX-SJU market and give it a shot again as I know it was served in the past. Remember B6 does have standard mint NEO aircraft’s as well that might be able to fly the route just fine.

I think the standard NEO has a range of 4,000nm and LAX-SJU is just shy of 3,000nm. Someone will have to correct me if I’m wrong. B6’s website says the 3NS has a range of 3,500nm

I want to say the standard (HD) NEO has a book range of 3500 nm. The 3NS MINT (LD) NEO is capable of ~3750 or so (I’ve personally operated a flight with that A/C from LGW-JFK this past winter. Fully fueled with 53K fuel, we blocked 9 hrs and still shut down with 8.0k of gas - impressive). The LR book range is 4000, XLR is 4700.

All that to say, as many of us know, a lot of these numbers are seasonally-dependent based on winds, but I think LAX-SJU at 3400 nm (nearly same range from NYC-LON) is only doable with a 3NS, since JetBlue has them configured to a premium arrangement, and I don’t think the market can support that.

One thing for certain is there aren’t enough 3NS aircraft in the company to entertain that right now. Perhaps a plan in the works for that route post-merger

AS rumor mill for years talked about LAX-SJU. But with the tie-up with AA I’d be surprised to see it actually happen.

hiflyeras wrote:

AS rumor mill for years talked about LAX-SJU. But with the tie-up with AA I’d be surprised to see it actually happen.

Point of sale and ALK brand recognition would be a hard sell for many Puerto Ricans coming out of SJU. For a while it was really always a 2-horse race between AA and B6 down there. Spirit has done a great job growing down there but they not only fly to a lot of places SJU travelers routinely need to go (Not LAX for example), but at a price point that’s hard to match, given the friends, family and tourist-natured demographic of the Caribbean.

BlueBaller wrote:

FARmd90 wrote:

ktarabay98 wrote:

A JetBlue's LAX-SJU could work efficently with A321LRs but with A321neo is more expensive to operate and doesn't garantize an efficent operation despite flights being full. The B6's A321LRs are all dedicated for JFK amd BOS flights to Europe.

I myself have been wonder if we will see B6 jump into the LAX-SJU market and give it a shot again as I know it was served in the past. Remember B6 does have standard mint NEO aircraft’s as well that might be able to fly the route just fine.

I think the standard NEO has a range of 4,000nm and LAX-SJU is just shy of 3,000nm. Someone will have to correct me if I’m wrong. B6’s website says the 3NS has a range of 3,500nm

I want to say the standard (HD) NEO has a book range of 3500 nm. The 3NS MINT (LD) NEO is capable of ~3750 or so (I’ve personally operated a flight with that A/C from LGW-JFK this past winter. Fully fueled with 53K fuel, we blocked 9 hrs and still shut down with 8.0k of gas - impressive). The LR book range is 4000, XLR is 4700.

All that to say, as many of us know, a lot of these numbers are seasonally-dependent based on winds, but I think LAX-SJU at 3400 nm (nearly same range from NYC-LON) is only doable with a 3NS, since JetBlue has them configured to a premium arrangement, and I don’t think the market can support that.

One thing for certain is there aren’t enough 3NS aircraft in the company to entertain that right now. Perhaps a plan in the works for that route post-merger

I know they don't touch either station right now, but the does the 220 have the range to do it? Book range is 3,600nm.

phatfarmlines wrote:

Also forgot that B6 pulled out of LRM and STX, so there's those markets if B6 wants to try them again with 220s.

I’m surprised even seasonally B6 couldn’t make STX work. Given STX is a U.S. territory and has a runway over 10k feet they should easily be able to do n/s to JFK and/or BOS in the winter on any of their planes.

How does DL, AA & NK make STX work but B6 couldn’t?

Magnum9 wrote:

I’m surprised even seasonally B6 couldn’t make STX work. Given STX is a U.S. territory and has a runway over 10k feet they should easily be able to do n/s to JFK and/or BOS in the winter on any of their planes.

How does DL, AA & NK make STX work but B6 couldn’t?

AA has connecting feed onto MIA-STX from some markets that don't have B6 nonstop service to FLL.

AA also has seasonal Saturday-only nonstop service to STX from CLT, and STX is unlikely to be served nonstop from CLT on an airline other than AA.

DL has seasonal nonstop service to STX from its ATL hub, but STX is unlikely to see nonstop service added out of ATL on another airline. DL also has significant connecting feed onto ATL-STX from other destinations to support DL STX-ATL nonstop service.

NK can make STX work with NK likely able to undercut AA, B6, and WN on fares to STX from South Florida.

jplatts wrote:

Magnum9 wrote:

I’m surprised even seasonally B6 couldn’t make STX work. Given STX is a U.S. territory and has a runway over 10k feet they should easily be able to do n/s to JFK and/or BOS in the winter on any of their planes.

How does DL, AA & NK make STX work but B6 couldn’t?

AA has connecting feed onto MIA-STX from some markets that don't have B6 nonstop service to FLL.

AA also has seasonal Saturday-only nonstop service to STX from CLT, and STX is unlikely to be served nonstop from CLT on an airline other than AA.

DL has seasonal nonstop service to STX from its ATL hub, but STX is unlikely to see nonstop service added out of ATL on another airline. DL also has significant connecting feed onto ATL-STX from other destinations to support DL STX-ATL nonstop service.

NK can make STX work with NK likely able to undercut AA, B6, and WN on fares to STX from South Florida.

Understood. But seasonally (winter) B6 would have the entire Northeast to themselves on either JFK/BOS-STX which would steal passengers flying from the NE and connecting onto AA’s MIA/CLT-STX & DL’s ATL-STX flights to avoid connections. Seems hard to understand how B6 can’t stimulate such a large population base even for a few (cold) months to STX.

Magnum9 wrote:

phatfarmlines wrote:

Also forgot that B6 pulled out of LRM and STX, so there's those markets if B6 wants to try them again with 220s.

I’m surprised even seasonally B6 couldn’t make STX work. Given STX is a U.S. territory and has a runway over 10k feet they should easily be able to do n/s to JFK and/or BOS in the winter on any of their planes.

How does DL, AA & NK make STX work but B6 couldn’t?

JetBlue flew SJU-STX daily year-round from 2011 to 2018 using E190s. SJU was the only destination that B6 served from and to STX. Currently Silver is the only airline that is flying SJU-STX with Cape Air surprisingly axing the route last year.

I think a JFK-STX could work either under B6 or Delta or even United from EWR.

ktarabay98 wrote:

Magnum9 wrote:

phatfarmlines wrote:

Also forgot that B6 pulled out of LRM and STX, so there's those markets if B6 wants to try them again with 220s.

I’m surprised even seasonally B6 couldn’t make STX work. Given STX is a U.S. territory and has a runway over 10k feet they should easily be able to do n/s to JFK and/or BOS in the winter on any of their planes.

How does DL, AA & NK make STX work but B6 couldn’t?

JetBlue flew SJU-STX daily year-round from 2011 to 2018 using E190s. SJU was the only destination that B6 served from and to STX. Currently Silver is the only airline that is flying SJU-STX with Cape Air surprisingly axing the route last year.

I think a JFK-STX could work either under B6 or Delta or even United from EWR.

Absolutely! I get that STT is the bigger US Virgin Islands market, but a winter seasonal 2-3x week from JFK or BOS to STX should be easily doable and command decent Y fares given they’d be nonstop flights with no other Northeast competition.

How does SJU SDQ do for B6?

LightChop2Chop wrote:

How does SJU SDQ do for B6?

Is obviously doing great, there is actually 3 daily on the route with A320, started since 2008. JetBlue and Frontier are the only carriers that are operating flights SJU-SDQ. Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic has a strong commercial and cultural relationship along with a significant Dominican diaspora on Puerto Rico. Arajet is still awaiting approval from the DOT so they can start flights to SJU.

phllax wrote:

I know they don't touch either station right now, but the does the 220 have the range to do it? Book range is 3,600nm.

I don’t see how. GC Mapper shows LAX-SJU at 3386nm - 214nm less than book range - that which would be far too tight for dispatching a flight with standard IFR reserves.

BlueBaller wrote:

phllax wrote:

I know they don't touch either station right now, but the does the 220 have the range to do it? Book range is 3,600nm.

I don’t see how. GC Mapper shows LAX-SJU at 3386nm - 214nm less than book range - that which would be far too tight for dispatching a flight with standard IFR reserves.

You’re reading the mileage on that route wrong. LAX-SJU is 3386 MILES which equals 2943 Nautical Miles. According to Wiki (I know) the A220 has a 3600nm range or in miles it’s 4100.

FARmd90 wrote:

You’re reading the mileage on that route wrong. LAX-SJU is 3386 MILES which equals 2943 Nautical Miles. According to Wiki (I know) the A220 has a 3600nm range or in miles it’s 4100.

That’s a great catch, I forgot to click that drop down menu. Weird how an aviation navigation website defaults to SM and not NM.

BlueBaller wrote:

FARmd90 wrote:

You’re reading the mileage on that route wrong. LAX-SJU is 3386 MILES which equals 2943 Nautical Miles. According to Wiki (I know) the A220 has a 3600nm range or in miles it’s 4100.

That’s a great catch, I forgot to click that drop down menu. Weird how an aviation navigation website defaults to SM and not NM.

wow, if they can do it with A220-300, they should definitely try.

I see they are operating A220-300 on BOS-SJC, which is one of the longest CONUS transcons

http://www.gcmap.com/dist?P=BOS-SJC;SJU-LAX
but then if you compare that with SJU-LAX, we are still 700 miles short.

I don't know. We don't have winter winds to deal with, so maybe it's doable year round

tphuang wrote:

BlueBaller wrote:

FARmd90 wrote:

You’re reading the mileage on that route wrong. LAX-SJU is 3386 MILES which equals 2943 Nautical Miles. According to Wiki (I know) the A220 has a 3600nm range or in miles it’s 4100.

That’s a great catch, I forgot to click that drop down menu. Weird how an aviation navigation website defaults to SM and not NM.

wow, if they can do it with A220-300, they should definitely try.

I see they are operating A220-300 on BOS-SJC, which is one of the longest CONUS transcons

http://www.gcmap.com/dist?P=BOS-SJC;SJU-LAX
but then if you compare that with SJU-LAX, we are still 700 miles short.

I don't know. We don't have winter winds to deal with, so maybe it's doable year round

It would be a great way to utilize an A220 on an overnight rotation. JetBlue could certainly send this out at 9pm for a 7am arrival into SJU. 8:30am back in LA around 1pm.

BlueBaller wrote:

tphuang wrote:

BlueBaller wrote:

That’s a great catch, I forgot to click that drop down menu. Weird how an aviation navigation website defaults to SM and not NM.

wow, if they can do it with A220-300, they should definitely try.

I see they are operating A220-300 on BOS-SJC, which is one of the longest CONUS transcons

http://www.gcmap.com/dist?P=BOS-SJC;SJU-LAX
but then if you compare that with SJU-LAX, we are still 700 miles short.

I don't know. We don't have winter winds to deal with, so maybe it's doable year round

It would be a great way to utilize an A220 on an overnight rotation. JetBlue could certainly send this out at 9pm for a 7am arrival into SJU. 8:30am back in LA around 1pm.

Who would that schedule appeal to? An arrival that early would only make sense for SJU originating pax, VFR and business travelers. The bulk of a hypothetical LAX-SJU would be LAX originating tourists. That schedule would not work for them at all.

Brickell305 wrote:

BlueBaller wrote:

tphuang wrote:

wow, if they can do it with A220-300, they should definitely try.

I see they are operating A220-300 on BOS-SJC, which is one of the longest CONUS transcons

http://www.gcmap.com/dist?P=BOS-SJC;SJU-LAX
but then if you compare that with SJU-LAX, we are still 700 miles short.

I don't know. We don't have winter winds to deal with, so maybe it's doable year round

It would be a great way to utilize an A220 on an overnight rotation. JetBlue could certainly send this out at 9pm for a 7am arrival into SJU. 8:30am back in LA around 1pm.

Who would that schedule appeal to? An arrival that early would only make sense for SJU originating pax, VFR and business travelers. The bulk of a hypothetical LAX-SJU would be LAX originating tourists. That schedule would not work for them at all.

As we all know when JetBlue starts connecting one coast with another on a new route they typically begin with a red eye to test the market.

The schedule could obviously be tweaked here and there; Back it up an hour or 2 for an 8:30am/9am arrival into SJU. Throughout the year JetBlue has plenty of morning inbounds from each of their CONUS focus cities arriving between 8-10am. It’s been almost a decade but I recall AAs 757 LAX-SJU service was a red eye eastbound that arrived mid-morning in PR.

There are quite a large number of Puerto Rican and Dominicans in the massive LA basin, those of which would be perfectly happy with a 7-9am arrival to reach their final destination for the purposes of visiting family, or connecting to other places like SDQ or PUJ. The LAX - SJU market obviously isn’t the most demanding, but it is an important one that connects the West Coast to the Caribbean. Having the right-sized aircraft seems to be the issue now. We’re not in the era of DC10s, L10-11s and even 757s that historically may have been too much capacity on that route.

As JetBlue slowly takes on more 220s, 140 seats 3x-5x a week may finally be the solution to making this work.

BlueBaller wrote:

Brickell305 wrote:

BlueBaller wrote:

It would be a great way to utilize an A220 on an overnight rotation. JetBlue could certainly send this out at 9pm for a 7am arrival into SJU. 8:30am back in LA around 1pm.

Who would that schedule appeal to? An arrival that early would only make sense for SJU originating pax, VFR and business travelers. The bulk of a hypothetical LAX-SJU would be LAX originating tourists. That schedule would not work for them at all.

As we all know when JetBlue starts connecting one coast with another on a new route they typically begin with a red eye to test the market.

The schedule could obviously be tweaked here and there; Back it up an hour or 2 for an 8:30am/9am arrival into SJU. Throughout the year JetBlue has plenty of morning inbounds from each of their CONUS focus cities arriving between 8-10am. It’s been almost a decade but I recall AAs 757 LAX-SJU service was a red eye eastbound that arrived mid-morning in PR.

There are quite a large number of Puerto Rican and Dominicans in the massive LA basin, those of which would be perfectly happy with a 7-9am arrival to reach their final destination for the purposes of visiting family, or connecting to other places like SDQ or PUJ. The LAX - SJU market obviously isn’t the most demanding, but it is an important one that connects the West Coast to the Caribbean. Having the right-sized aircraft seems to be the issue now. We’re not in the era of DC10s, L10-11s and even 757s that historically may have been too much capacity on that route.

As JetBlue slowly takes on more 220s, 140 seats 3x-5x a week may finally be the solution to making this work.

The AA flight isn’t comparable as the AA flight used to arrive at 11:05 am which made it:

a) much more reasonable for tourists compared to a 7-9 am arrival
b) connected to AA’s Eastern Caribbean network ex SJU

A B6 arrival at 7-9 am serves neither of those purposes. And LAX is not a major VFR market for Puerto Ricans or Dominicans.

Brickell305 wrote:

BlueBaller wrote:

Brickell305 wrote:

Who would that schedule appeal to? An arrival that early would only make sense for SJU originating pax, VFR and business travelers. The bulk of a hypothetical LAX-SJU would be LAX originating tourists. That schedule would not work for them at all.

As we all know when JetBlue starts connecting one coast with another on a new route they typically begin with a red eye to test the market.

The schedule could obviously be tweaked here and there; Back it up an hour or 2 for an 8:30am/9am arrival into SJU. Throughout the year JetBlue has plenty of morning inbounds from each of their CONUS focus cities arriving between 8-10am. It’s been almost a decade but I recall AAs 757 LAX-SJU service was a red eye eastbound that arrived mid-morning in PR.

There are quite a large number of Puerto Rican and Dominicans in the massive LA basin, those of which would be perfectly happy with a 7-9am arrival to reach their final destination for the purposes of visiting family, or connecting to other places like SDQ or PUJ. The LAX - SJU market obviously isn’t the most demanding, but it is an important one that connects the West Coast to the Caribbean. Having the right-sized aircraft seems to be the issue now. We’re not in the era of DC10s, L10-11s and even 757s that historically may have been too much capacity on that route.

As JetBlue slowly takes on more 220s, 140 seats 3x-5x a week may finally be the solution to making this work.

The AA flight isn’t comparable as the AA flight used to arrive at 11:05 am which made it:

a) much more reasonable for tourists compared to a 7-9 am arrival
b) connected to AA’s Eastern Caribbean network ex SJU

A B6 arrival at 7-9 am serves neither of those purposes. And LAX is not a major VFR market for Puerto Ricans or Dominicans.

If JetBlue does this route, it will be as blueballer says. They always do red eyes.

This is one of those routes that makes me think B6 needs a small FC on some of its other aircraft. You probably can't sell out 16 lie flats, but you can sell maybe 8 standard FC seats. a nice 3 row/12 seat FC on A220 would be ideal.

Brickell305 wrote:

BlueBaller wrote:

Brickell305 wrote:

Who would that schedule appeal to? An arrival that early would only make sense for SJU originating pax, VFR and business travelers. The bulk of a hypothetical LAX-SJU would be LAX originating tourists. That schedule would not work for them at all.

As we all know when JetBlue starts connecting one coast with another on a new route they typically begin with a red eye to test the market.

The schedule could obviously be tweaked here and there; Back it up an hour or 2 for an 8:30am/9am arrival into SJU. Throughout the year JetBlue has plenty of morning inbounds from each of their CONUS focus cities arriving between 8-10am. It’s been almost a decade but I recall AAs 757 LAX-SJU service was a red eye eastbound that arrived mid-morning in PR.

There are quite a large number of Puerto Rican and Dominicans in the massive LA basin, those of which would be perfectly happy with a 7-9am arrival to reach their final destination for the purposes of visiting family, or connecting to other places like SDQ or PUJ. The LAX - SJU market obviously isn’t the most demanding, but it is an important one that connects the West Coast to the Caribbean. Having the right-sized aircraft seems to be the issue now. We’re not in the era of DC10s, L10-11s and even 757s that historically may have been too much capacity on that route.

As JetBlue slowly takes on more 220s, 140 seats 3x-5x a week may finally be the solution to making this work.

The AA flight isn’t comparable as the AA flight used to arrive at 11:05 am which made it:

a) much more reasonable for tourists compared to a 7-9 am arrival
b) connected to AA’s Eastern Caribbean network ex SJU

A B6 arrival at 7-9 am serves neither of those purposes. And LAX is not a major VFR market for Puerto Ricans or Dominicans.

Indeed a LAX-SJU flight would have to work for Southern California tourists; flights to beach and ski markets typically tend to arrive either late morning or early afternoon. Silver Airways, if they survive (did they ever pay FLL?), has largely backfilled the old American Eagle network from SJU. Silver appears to be a partner with B6, and they even now fly ATR turboprops - just like Eagle did all those years ago!

Surely any B6 LAX-SJU flight would want to cater to O&D pax (many of them headed to cruises) as well as connections beyond SJU, as was the case for the AA flight. Maybe when more A220s or long range A321s arrive it will happen.

Brickell305 wrote:

The AA flight isn’t comparable as the AA flight used to arrive at 11:05 am which made it:

a) much more reasonable for tourists compared to a 7-9 am arrival
b) connected to AA’s Eastern Caribbean network ex SJU

A B6 arrival at 7-9 am serves neither of those purposes. And LAX is not a major VFR market for Puerto Ricans or Dominicans.

I’m sure that schedule has changed over time but https://departedflights2.com/san-juan-2005-page-2/
would suggest this flight arrived at 10:17am on the weekends.

Clearly the metrics have changed over time and San Juan isn’t the hub it once was, largely because of what JetBlue did with all the point to point accessibility to the Caribbean. Since the early 2000s, LA-originating tourists to the Caribbean now have the option to connect in ATL/MIA/FLL to better facilitate themselves to that region.

LAX is a massive point of connection on the Pacific. Considering JetBlue’s partnerships and commitment to SJU, and for the over 200,000 Puerto Ricans living in California (not including the nearly 50,000 in Hawaii), 1/4 of them reside in SoCal, a sub-daily redeye targeting a combination of VFR and tourism with ~450 weekly seats in each direction could finally work if the equipment is ultimately right-sized for the market.

BlueBaller wrote:

Brickell305 wrote:

The AA flight isn’t comparable as the AA flight used to arrive at 11:05 am which made it:

a) much more reasonable for tourists compared to a 7-9 am arrival
b) connected to AA’s Eastern Caribbean network ex SJU

A B6 arrival at 7-9 am serves neither of those purposes. And LAX is not a major VFR market for Puerto Ricans or Dominicans.

I’m sure that schedule has changed over time but https://departedflights2.com/san-juan-2005-page-2/
would suggest this flight arrived at 10:17am on the weekends.

Clearly the metrics have changed over time and San Juan isn’t the hub it once was, largely because of what JetBlue did with all the point to point accessibility to the Caribbean. Since the early 2000s, LA-originating tourists to the Caribbean now have the option to connect in ATL/MIA/FLL to better facilitate themselves to that region.

LAX is a massive point of connection on the Pacific. Considering JetBlue’s partnerships and commitment to SJU, and for the over 200,000 Puerto Ricans living in California (not including the nearly 50,000 in Hawaii), 1/4 of them reside in SoCal, a sub-daily redeye targeting a combination of VFR and tourism with ~450 weekly seats in each direction could finally work if the equipment is ultimately right-sized for the market.

It does seem like there is the potential for this route to come back, it does make it harder with all the hubs that will be over flown though.

My personal thoughts are, I think the domestic mint fleet would be a good fit for this route. The length of this flight I’m sure there would be more people willing to pay for full service from meals, drinks and the seats/space.
The 220 would also be a good fit but it does struggle to do transcons when it comes to galley space so I’m not sure if that would be a factor if B6 were to use the 220 or not.

FARmd90 wrote:

Does anyone know the what the demand is for LAX-NAS? This route does seem like a head scratcher but B6 isn’t one just to throw a plane on a route just because. They must feel that they can make more money on this route rather then add another flight to S. Florida from LA on a Saturday.

Maybe someone has got the B6 planners to believe in a Fyre Festival 2.0? lol

BOS-LGW dropped from late-September-October & January

In addition to fall cutbacks on BOS-MCI, JFK-RNO, LAX-CHS/BDL

tphuang wrote:

SurfandSnow wrote:

FARmd90 wrote:

Does anyone know the what the demand is for LAX-NAS? This route does seem like a head scratcher but B6 isn’t one just to throw a plane on a route just because. They must feel that they can make more money on this route rather then add another flight to S. Florida from LA on a Saturday.

As a longtime Angeleno resident I am downright shocked to see this one - on a Mint aircraft, no less! Someone else suggested this was simply a utilization exercise since transcon demand is lower on Saturdays (the only day this flight will operate).

I expected to perhaps see B6 try LAX-SJU nonstop - it's been flown before, by TW as well as AA, but isn't served by anyone today - but never thought I would see a nonstop to Nassau!

I assume they see a bunch of LAX-FLL-NAS booking or this wouldn't make sense at all.

LAX-SJU is pretty far. I'm not sure you can do it even with mint aircraft

NAS isn't that big of a market west of the Mississippi. AA doesn't even operate DFW-NAS daily for a lot of the year. e.g. December 2019 LAX-NAS demand was ~55 PDEW.

But, B6 has clearly made a strategy in LAX of targeting unserved/underserved TCON markets a la - CHS, BDL, PBI(RIP), RIC(RIP), JAX(RIP), RDU(RIP), etc.......so NAS somewhat trends with that.

Wishing them luck on that route...but LAX-NAS is a loooong flight (longer than LAX-JFK).....and B6's track record outside of their focus cities from LAX is pretty horrific.


Side note: The arrival/departure timing is pretty bad given the flight duration and time zone changes. Doing a quick scan, it looks like NAS-LAX is by far the latest flight of the day out of NAS by quite a bit. Given checkout time for most resorts is 10/11am, a 8pm flight is really not ideal for a lot of folks...

BlueBaller wrote:

Brickell305 wrote:

The AA flight isn’t comparable as the AA flight used to arrive at 11:05 am which made it:

a) much more reasonable for tourists compared to a 7-9 am arrival
b) connected to AA’s Eastern Caribbean network ex SJU

A B6 arrival at 7-9 am serves neither of those purposes. And LAX is not a major VFR market for Puerto Ricans or Dominicans.

I’m sure that schedule has changed over time but https://departedflights2.com/san-juan-2005-page-2/
would suggest this flight arrived at 10:17am on the weekends.

Clearly the metrics have changed over time and San Juan isn’t the hub it once was, largely because of what JetBlue did with all the point to point accessibility to the Caribbean. Since the early 2000s, LA-originating tourists to the Caribbean now have the option to connect in ATL/MIA/FLL to better facilitate themselves to that region.

LAX is a massive point of connection on the Pacific. Considering JetBlue’s partnerships and commitment to SJU, and for the over 200,000 Puerto Ricans living in California (not including the nearly 50,000 in Hawaii), 1/4 of them reside in SoCal, a sub-daily redeye targeting a combination of VFR and tourism with ~450 weekly seats in each direction could finally work if the equipment is ultimately right-sized for the market.

How long was this flight?!