Why are ORD-PTY, IAD-PTY, DEN-PTY, LAX-PTY, and SFO-PTY operated by Copa on behalf of United?

Tayo826 wrote:

Why are ORD-PTY, IAD-PTY, DEN-PTY, LAX-PTY, and SFO-PTY operated by Copa on behalf of United?

What?

The only routes to PTY that United operates themselves are EWR-PTY and IAH-PTY.

LAXdude1023 wrote:

Tayo826 wrote:

Why are ORD-PTY, IAD-PTY, DEN-PTY, LAX-PTY, and SFO-PTY operated by Copa on behalf of United?

They do not operate on behalf of United whatsoever. United does not have a joint venture with CM. They are codeshare partners.

Copa should be considered a UA franchisee for all intents and purposes.

Tayo826 wrote:

LAXdude1023 wrote:

Tayo826 wrote:

Why are ORD-PTY, IAD-PTY, DEN-PTY, LAX-PTY, and SFO-PTY operated by Copa on behalf of United?

They do not operate on behalf of United whatsoever. United does not have a joint venture with CM. They are codeshare partners.

Copa should be considered a UA franchisee for all intents and purposes.

They sold most of their share of Copa a few years ago. They still have a close partnership, but just like they do with AC, LH and some others.

dcajet wrote:

United is increasing EWR-PTY from 1x d to 9x w, eff 24JUN2023. All flights from EWR to PTY operated with the 179-seat 737-900ER.

https://www.aviacionline.com/2023/05/un ... nama-city/

Nice to see this return, pre-COVID it was 2x/daily, from time to time with a 757-300, too.

cosyr wrote:

Tayo826 wrote:

LAXdude1023 wrote:

They do not operate on behalf of United whatsoever. United does not have a joint venture with CM. They are codeshare partners.

Copa should be considered a UA franchisee for all intents and purposes.

They sold most of their share of Copa a few years ago. They still have a close partnership, but just like they do with AC, LH and some others.

Not the same. UA has JBAs with LH and AC which gives them government-approved immunity to coordinate networks, schedules, etc. The relationship with COPA after UA/CO divested their shares in CM is just one of a codeshare here and there and a common membership in *A.

Tayo826 wrote:

Copa should be considered a UA franchisee for all intents and purposes.

Not at all, in fact the complete opposite. They are no more than codeshare and interline partners. That means that the relationship with Copa is less significant than Air Canada, Lufthansa or ANA, and on the same level as their relationship with the likes of Virgin Australia. What’s more, what you are suggesting is illegal collusion.

panam330 wrote:

Max Q wrote:

In Continental days MAN was served by DC10, 752 and 764 equipment, there were two daily flights to EWR at one point

Don't forget the 762 and 777!

Good point !

If I remember correctly Continental also sent their 747 Classics to MAN occasionally

LAXdude1023 wrote:

Declining a Polaris Lounge in DEN

Scott Kirby announced at today’s event that there would be a DEN Polaris lounge. Just after the 16 minute mark in the video below.

https://www.youtube.com/live/oXrAbaQm6o8?feature=share

LAXdude1023 wrote:

This is ironic to me. They literally just said no plans for a Polaris Lounge in DEN in February. Now they shift direction. Im curious to know what went on behind the scenes...

Maybe they just didn’t want to make the official announcement. Kirby made it sound like he was spilling the beans ahead of the “official” update.

With up to 200 787s on the delivery books along with all the new international-capable gates coming online in DEN, I wouldn’t be surprised to see more long haul routes announced.

The tweet from JonNYC that details the fleet growth shows some 787 deliveries next year, but they’ll join the fleet in larger numbers in 2025. Maybe that’s when the new routes will begin? Timing would work well with the potential PL opening date.

LAXdude1023 wrote:

PA815 wrote:

LAXdude1023 wrote:

Declining a Polaris Lounge in DEN

Scott Kirby announced at today’s event that there would be a DEN Polaris lounge. Just after the 16 minute mark in the video below.

https://www.youtube.com/live/oXrAbaQm6o8?feature=share

This is ironic to me. They literally just said no plans for a Polaris Lounge in DEN in February. Now they shift direction. Im curious to know what went on behind the scenes...

All of the above can be true. They had "no plans" for a Polaris lounge then, and they still have "no plans" for a Polaris lounge. That's just a classic PR move – nothing is being planned or official from a company's point of view until the press release comes out. As Scott even hinted when he announced it today, he was likely going against the official company line. By doing so, it now gives the media and the public the chance to ask UA all about this future Polaris lounge and when it'll open. Those are probably questions UA doesn't want to be asked or have to answer if they haven't pinned down exactly what their plans are.

The insider in the DEN thread has long said that there was a space reserved in the A-West expansion for a potential Polaris lounge, but that it wasn't in the works. Frankly, it was probably a responsible and reasonable move for UA to ensure that a concourse expansion would give them the freedom to build a Polaris lounge in DEN, even if they haven't given the go-ahead for it just yet for whatever reason.

gwrudolph wrote:

adamblang wrote:

Design work has allegedly started to replace IAD Concourse C and D:

https://aeroxplorer.com/articles/exclus ... dulles.php

Exciting news and long overdue. Wonder if it yields additional gates for UA as well or just one-for-one replacement. Seems as though on the mega-bank, they are maxed out

I only hope they offer Mileage Plus members a bidding opportunity to have 15 minutes of fun swinging a sledgehammer at that old dump of a terminal. Remember back in the really bad old days, the joys of Concourse G? Shambolic would be the understatement of the century to describe that particular cesspit. It made the evacuation of Saigon in 1975 look calm and orderly.

intotheair wrote:

LAXdude1023 wrote:

PA815 wrote:

Scott Kirby announced at today’s event that there would be a DEN Polaris lounge. Just after the 16 minute mark in the video below.

https://www.youtube.com/live/oXrAbaQm6o8?feature=share

This is ironic to me. They literally just said no plans for a Polaris Lounge in DEN in February. Now they shift direction. Im curious to know what went on behind the scenes...

All of the above can be true. They had "no plans" for a Polaris lounge then, and they still have "no plans" for a Polaris lounge. That's just a classic PR move – nothing is being planned or official from a company's point of view until the press release comes out. As Scott even hinted when he announced it today, he was likely going against the official company line. By doing so, it now gives the media and the public the chance to ask UA all about this future Polaris lounge and when it'll open. Those are probably questions UA doesn't want to be asked or have to answer if they haven't pinned down exactly what their plans are.

The insider in the DEN thread has long said that there was a space reserved in the A-West expansion for a potential Polaris lounge, but that it wasn't in the works. Frankly, it was probably a responsible and reasonable move for UA to ensure that a concourse expansion would give them the freedom to build a Polaris lounge in DEN, even if they haven't given the go-ahead for it just yet for whatever reason.

This is classic C-suite behavior for you. His senior leadership were probably pulling together a business case and he caught wind and got excited and spilled the beans. Kirby is CEO - if he wants a Polaris lounge he’ll get one. Honestly it was the surprising highlight of an otherwise mundane announcement.

Expecting at least a few days of cancellations and disruptions within the Micronesia network with Super Typhoon Mawar hitting Guam as a Category 4 storm:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/weather/gu ... -rcna85831

BB78710 wrote:

Lilj4425 wrote:

United announces large expansion out of Denver:

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/23/united- ... unges.html

With DEN terminal (facilities) expansion being years ahead of ORD is it possible that DEN could become UA's largest hub?

UA is adding not only more gates at DEN, they also announced they are adding another bank of flights to leave early morning. Even though UA will never have a fortress hub (although a case could be made for EWR) is it possible for them to get DEN to 700 or even 800+ daily flights? UA's possibilities at DEN for now seem limitless.

On a side note a renouncement of sorts UA currently has under construction the largest United Club in the system at DEN they will announce the opening of that Club in the near future. And they aren't just opening the largest United Club they will open a total of 3 United Clubs on of those clubs (although not the largest) will be on the A concourse.

AFAIK, the long term plan has always been to get all three mid-continent hubs (DEN, ORD, IAH) to around 700 flights a day vs. trying to create one super hub.
The goal for EWR was around 500. SFO was planned for 300+ and IAD has the potential for 400+. Obviously, LAX growth is dependent on T9. Now, these were the numbers thrown out before covid. How much of this has changed, I'm not sure.

dcajet wrote:

cosyr wrote:

Tayo826 wrote:

Copa should be considered a UA franchisee for all intents and purposes.

They sold most of their share of Copa a few years ago. They still have a close partnership, but just like they do with AC, LH and some others.

Not the same. UA has JBAs with LH and AC which gives them government-approved immunity to coordinate networks, schedules, etc. The relationship with COPA after UA/CO divested their shares in CM is just one of a codeshare here and there and a common membership in *A.

I'm not talking about AC and LH JV routes. UA is a close partner with those airlines on all routes and codeshares on many routes that are not in the JV. I say this in contrast to airlines that they are lukewarm or even cold partners, such as SQ, simply because they are in Star Alliance with.

Copa used to be owned by UA (after CO), but despite divesting their ownership, they are still very close.

Continental had up to a 51% stake in the airline but greatly reduced it down to the 10% range well before the United merger.

LAXdude1023 wrote:

PA815 wrote:

LAXdude1023 wrote:

This is ironic to me. They literally just said no plans for a Polaris Lounge in DEN in February. Now they shift direction. Im curious to know what went on behind the scenes...

Maybe they just didn’t want to make the official announcement. Kirby made it sound like he was spilling the beans ahead of the “official” update.

With up to 200 787s on the delivery books along with all the new international-capable gates coming online in DEN, I wouldn’t be surprised to see more long haul routes announced.

The tweet from JonNYC that details the fleet growth shows some 787 deliveries next year, but they’ll join the fleet in larger numbers in 2025. Maybe that’s when the new routes will begin? Timing would work well with the potential PL opening date.

If that is the case, it was poorly done. In February, they completely shot down the idea. They didn't seem to leave room for ambiguity.

This would fly in the face of their strategy. UA seems to be retrenching into hub compartmentalization, not expanding hub roles. I laid out the evidence for that a few posts ago. Aside from the DEN Polaris lounge everything else still stands. Maybe in future DEN and IAH will get more Europe at some point but it would mean a shift in strategy.

The “no plans” comment came from a lower level manager who was not at liberty to share publicly, in an official capacity, details of long term capital plans that are not in the current year budget. Kirby is the CEO and slightly different rules apply. This is not a recent about-face, simple as that. The information I and others shared was not made up.

codc10 wrote:

LAXdude1023 wrote:

PA815 wrote:

Maybe they just didn’t want to make the official announcement. Kirby made it sound like he was spilling the beans ahead of the “official” update.

With up to 200 787s on the delivery books along with all the new international-capable gates coming online in DEN, I wouldn’t be surprised to see more long haul routes announced.

The tweet from JonNYC that details the fleet growth shows some 787 deliveries next year, but they’ll join the fleet in larger numbers in 2025. Maybe that’s when the new routes will begin? Timing would work well with the potential PL opening date.

If that is the case, it was poorly done. In February, they completely shot down the idea. They didn't seem to leave room for ambiguity.

This would fly in the face of their strategy. UA seems to be retrenching into hub compartmentalization, not expanding hub roles. I laid out the evidence for that a few posts ago. Aside from the DEN Polaris lounge everything else still stands. Maybe in future DEN and IAH will get more Europe at some point but it would mean a shift in strategy.

The “no plans” comment came from a lower level manager who was not at liberty to share publicly, in an official capacity, details of long term capital plans that are not in the current year budget. Kirby is the CEO and slightly different rules apply. This is not a recent about-face, simple as that. The information I and others shared was not made up.

Putting in a Polaris Lounge takes a lot more than just the CEO standing at a podium, grabbing a wand and casting a spell.
Projects come up, capital is optimized, partners are in place, supply chain is in order, decisions are made.
All this is just a normal course of business operations.

The DEN Polaris club is the worst kept secret like Area 51. Everyone seemed to know it was in the works but no one could say on the record that it was. I’ve heard about it for a couple years now.

It seems only one poster on here doesn’t believe it even when the CEO announces it. Sure things change but it has been planned since A West began to take shape. United just hasn’t committed the capital to build it out yet and thus would be foolish to announce it before plans get drawn up and money allocated. Clearly things are moving along in that process.

Bear in mind that Kirby didn’t officially announce anything with respect to a Polaris lounge in Denver. If you watch the video of the event, you’ll hear him say he’s standing on the site of what will “probably” be the Polaris lounge in a few years. That’s hardly an official announcement and based on his word choice, it’s clear there are no official plans in place. Using probably as a qualifier gives UA sufficient cover if they decide against building one. As others have noted, until there’s a press release, it’s not official.

LAXdude1023 wrote:

jetmatt777 wrote:

The DEN Polaris club is the worst kept secret like Area 51. Everyone seemed to know it was in the works but no one could say on the record that it was. I’ve heard about it for a couple years now.

It seems only one poster on here doesn’t believe it even when the CEO announces it. Sure things change but it has been planned since A West began to take shape. United just hasn’t committed the capital to build it out yet and thus would be foolish to announce it before plans get drawn up and money allocated. Clearly things are moving along in that process.

The “one poster” in question has questions that go beyond the validity of the “announcement”.

A company official saying there are no plans then the CEO says there are. There is no secret to keep, the opening of a club is not like announcing long term plans of route structure. There is no competition for a business class only lounge in Denver. There is no one to need to hide it from. A competent marketing would make it public that it’s in the plans even if there isn’t clarity on exact details. Being publicly contradictory like that is going to raise eyebrows.

If that was an announcement, UA needs to fire their PR department.

I believe Kirby wants a club and if he does, he’ll eventually get it. But come on, you can’t see how this was done as poor and confusing? Just so we can refresh our memories, this was the announcement for the Polaris lounges when they opened:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 78706.html

It was 100% bad PR and contradictory. Zach Griff was apparently so surprised he grabbed his laptop and started writing his TPG article in the middle of the session if you read Matt Klint’s article from this morning. I’m sure UA is scrambling today trying to figure out damage control given there are now public articles saying the CEO announced a Polaris Lounge. Would look pretty bad if they went back on that.

https://liveandletsfly.com/united-polar ... ge-denver/

Separately, I just don’t see how a full Polaris Lounge could even fit in that space. It’s a tiny mezzanine that doesn’t even have a third floor like the other lounge spaces. There’s a staircase leading down on the left with a closed off area that could perhaps be a dining room or something but this Lounge would likely be the smallest in the network, unless I’m missing something.

Legiath wrote:

It was 100% bad PR and contradictory. Zach Griff was apparently so surprised he grabbed his laptop and started writing his TPG article in the middle of the session if you read Matt Klint’s article from this morning. I’m sure UA is scrambling today trying to figure out damage control given there are now public articles saying the CEO announced a Polaris Lounge. Would look pretty bad if they went back on that.

https://liveandletsfly.com/united-polar ... ge-denver/

Separately, I just don’t see how a full Polaris Lounge could even fit in that space. It’s a tiny mezzanine that doesn’t even have a third floor like the other lounge spaces. There’s a staircase leading down on the left with a closed off area that could perhaps be a dining room or something but this Lounge would likely be the smallest in the network, unless I’m missing something.

Damage control? It's a Polaris Lounge, not someone being dragged off a plane. It was a very poorly kept secret the A gates were where the Polaris lounge at DEN was going to end up. I would assume the plan is to build up, a la the LAX United Club and therefore not a short project.

SBAer wrote:

Damage control? It's a Polaris Lounge, not someone being dragged off a plane. It was a very poorly kept secret the A gates were where the Polaris lounge at DEN was going to end up. I would assume the plan is to build up, a la the LAX United Club and therefore not a short project.

What are you referring to here regarding the LAX club?

Legiath wrote:

LAXdude1023 wrote:

jetmatt777 wrote:

The DEN Polaris club is the worst kept secret like Area 51. Everyone seemed to know it was in the works but no one could say on the record that it was. I’ve heard about it for a couple years now.

It seems only one poster on here doesn’t believe it even when the CEO announces it. Sure things change but it has been planned since A West began to take shape. United just hasn’t committed the capital to build it out yet and thus would be foolish to announce it before plans get drawn up and money allocated. Clearly things are moving along in that process.

The “one poster” in question has questions that go beyond the validity of the “announcement”.

A company official saying there are no plans then the CEO says there are. There is no secret to keep, the opening of a club is not like announcing long term plans of route structure. There is no competition for a business class only lounge in Denver. There is no one to need to hide it from. A competent marketing would make it public that it’s in the plans even if there isn’t clarity on exact details. Being publicly contradictory like that is going to raise eyebrows.

If that was an announcement, UA needs to fire their PR department.

I believe Kirby wants a club and if he does, he’ll eventually get it. But come on, you can’t see how this was done as poor and confusing? Just so we can refresh our memories, this was the announcement for the Polaris lounges when they opened:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 78706.html

It was 100% bad PR and contradictory. Zach Griff was apparently so surprised he grabbed his laptop and started writing his TPG article in the middle of the session if you read Matt Klint’s article from this morning. I’m sure UA is scrambling today trying to figure out damage control given there are now public articles saying the CEO announced a Polaris Lounge. Would look pretty bad if they went back on that.

https://liveandletsfly.com/united-polar ... ge-denver/

Separately, I just don’t see how a full Polaris Lounge could even fit in that space. It’s a tiny mezzanine that doesn’t even have a third floor like the other lounge spaces. There’s a staircase leading down on the left with a closed off area that could perhaps be a dining room or something but this Lounge would likely be the smallest in the network, unless I’m missing something.

The space where the new conference was held is the same dimensions as the new A West club. A 3rd floor could be added, but there is not a lot of space in either location. The space underneath the club is for the future concessions and is already leased out and would not be usable. One advantage is the airport designed the new expansion areas to have the kitchens in the basement or on the ramp to free up more space on the concourse level, this goes for both the clubs and the new concessions.

A small note, UA leased all of the space on the Mezzanine level to preserve space for a future Polaris club or whatever they want to ensure that no one else could move in there.

LAXPolaris wrote:

SBAer wrote:

Damage control? It's a Polaris Lounge, not someone being dragged off a plane. It was a very poorly kept secret the A gates were where the Polaris lounge at DEN was going to end up. I would assume the plan is to build up, a la the LAX United Club and therefore not a short project.

What are you referring to here regarding the LAX club?

In other words build a new story on top (and potentially out to some degree) of the concourse, much like the LAX club which did not exist before the club was constructed.

dcajet wrote:

cosyr wrote:

Tayo826 wrote:

Copa should be considered a UA franchisee for all intents and purposes.

They sold most of their share of Copa a few years ago. They still have a close partnership, but just like they do with AC, LH and some others.

Not the same. UA has JBAs with LH and AC which gives them government-approved immunity to coordinate networks, schedules, etc. The relationship with COPA after UA/CO divested their shares in CM is just one of a codeshare here and there and a common membership in *A.

Although UA has divested all its shares of CM, the alliance between UA and CM is a little bit more than just codeshare as they have antitrust immunity from the DOT and some members of CM board of directors are from UA.

From CM annual report: https://copa.gcs-web.com/static-files/a ... a4587f9ee4

Our alliance relationship with UAL enjoys a grant of antitrust immunity from the U.S. Department of Transportation, or “DOT”.

Also, one member of the board of directors from CM is from UA:

Mr. John Gebo was elected as a director of Copa Holdings in 2015. He is Senior Vice President of Transformation for United Airlines

And another board member used to be UA CFO until 2018:

Mr. Andrew Levy was elected as a director of Copa Holdings in 2016.

DEN1895 wrote:

Legiath wrote:

LAXdude1023 wrote:

The “one poster” in question has questions that go beyond the validity of the “announcement”.

A company official saying there are no plans then the CEO says there are. There is no secret to keep, the opening of a club is not like announcing long term plans of route structure. There is no competition for a business class only lounge in Denver. There is no one to need to hide it from. A competent marketing would make it public that it’s in the plans even if there isn’t clarity on exact details. Being publicly contradictory like that is going to raise eyebrows.

If that was an announcement, UA needs to fire their PR department.

I believe Kirby wants a club and if he does, he’ll eventually get it. But come on, you can’t see how this was done as poor and confusing? Just so we can refresh our memories, this was the announcement for the Polaris lounges when they opened:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 78706.html

It was 100% bad PR and contradictory. Zach Griff was apparently so surprised he grabbed his laptop and started writing his TPG article in the middle of the session if you read Matt Klint’s article from this morning. I’m sure UA is scrambling today trying to figure out damage control given there are now public articles saying the CEO announced a Polaris Lounge. Would look pretty bad if they went back on that.

https://liveandletsfly.com/united-polar ... ge-denver/

Separately, I just don’t see how a full Polaris Lounge could even fit in that space. It’s a tiny mezzanine that doesn’t even have a third floor like the other lounge spaces. There’s a staircase leading down on the left with a closed off area that could perhaps be a dining room or something but this Lounge would likely be the smallest in the network, unless I’m missing something.

The space where the new conference was held is the same dimensions as the new A West club. A 3rd floor could be added, but there is not a lot of space in either location. The space underneath the club is for the future concessions and is already leased out and would not be usable. One advantage is the airport designed the new expansion areas to have the kitchens in the basement or on the ramp to free up more space on the concourse level, this goes for both the clubs and the new concessions.

A small note, UA leased all of the space on the Mezzanine level to preserve space for a future Polaris club or whatever they want to ensure that no one else could move in there.

Why did they put in that staircase on the left then? Seems redundant to the escalators and a waste of space if not connecting a future PL to another first floor area.

LAXdude1023 wrote:

codc10 wrote:

LAXdude1023 wrote:

If that is the case, it was poorly done. In February, they completely shot down the idea. They didn't seem to leave room for ambiguity.

This would fly in the face of their strategy. UA seems to be retrenching into hub compartmentalization, not expanding hub roles. I laid out the evidence for that a few posts ago. Aside from the DEN Polaris lounge everything else still stands. Maybe in future DEN and IAH will get more Europe at some point but it would mean a shift in strategy.

The “no plans” comment came from a lower level manager who was not at liberty to share publicly, in an official capacity, details of long term capital plans that are not in the current year budget. Kirby is the CEO and slightly different rules apply. This is not a recent about-face, simple as that. The information I and others shared was not made up.

I’m sorry, are you saying you thought I called you I liar?

A company official saying publicly saying there are no plans and then a CEO saying there are is contradictory no matter how you choose to slice that up. I’m sure Kirby was being sincere, but no CEO can blink their eyes and make something show up. CEOs cannot act unilaterally. So, I certainly hope Kirby is right and DEN gets its lounge. But I’ll wait until the ground is broken to high five you guys.

After all it wouldn’t be the first time a high ranking official of a company jumped the gun at a celebratory even. I’ve been in the Industry too long and I know how things go on this front.

Not at all. But two things can be true at the same time.

I think the reasoning I set forth is pretty clear... Alexander Dorow, a United MD, told a blogger in January that there are "no plans" for a Polaris Lounge at Denver. At the time, there was indeed no plan in the 2023 capital or operating budgets for a Polaris Lounge in Denver, and he was likely specifically directed by his superiors (this would be either Toby or Linda, not entirely sure who he reports to) not to comment on future, unbudgeted capital projects. At United (and elsewhere), code for this directive is sometimes, "we'll soon have more to share with you" or "stay tuned." So, when pressed directly on the issue, the answer is "no plans," which clearly is not the same thing as "never".

At the same time, perhaps in a different silo, corporate real estate has to balance short term budgets with long-term strategic plans. That's why United obtained the rights to the mezzanine space in the western node of the new A concourse as a "future lounge project" which was internally understood to mean Polaris, since a large United Club was already in the budget about 100 yards away. As an aside, United has rights to space in a number of airports that currently do not have a United Club, even though there are currently "no plans" to increase the United Club footprint, with budgets directed at renovating and expanding existing lounges, especially in hubs.

Kirby is a frequent visitor to DEN and no doubt has a personal interest in the project there. It was generally known internally that DEN would eventually receive a Polaris Lounge, but without a timeline to build it out, it was decided not to release that to the public until United is further along in the planning process. United is sensitive to criticism it received with the initial announcement of the Polaris product, with the full vision being years away.

Bottom line, this is hardly something to get worked up over.

SBAer wrote:

LAXPolaris wrote:

SBAer wrote:

Damage control? It's a Polaris Lounge, not someone being dragged off a plane. It was a very poorly kept secret the A gates were where the Polaris lounge at DEN was going to end up. I would assume the plan is to build up, a la the LAX United Club and therefore not a short project.

What are you referring to here regarding the LAX club?

In other words build a new story on top (and potentially out to some degree) of the concourse, much like the LAX club which did not exist before the club was constructed.

Ahh I see what you’re saying. Though you were saying something was changing with one of the LAX clubs but you’re just referring to how they built it above the terminal in a new space that didn’t exist before.

codc10 wrote:

LAXdude1023 wrote:

codc10 wrote:

The “no plans” comment came from a lower level manager who was not at liberty to share publicly, in an official capacity, details of long term capital plans that are not in the current year budget. Kirby is the CEO and slightly different rules apply. This is not a recent about-face, simple as that. The information I and others shared was not made up.

I’m sorry, are you saying you thought I called you I liar?

A company official saying publicly saying there are no plans and then a CEO saying there are is contradictory no matter how you choose to slice that up. I’m sure Kirby was being sincere, but no CEO can blink their eyes and make something show up. CEOs cannot act unilaterally. So, I certainly hope Kirby is right and DEN gets its lounge. But I’ll wait until the ground is broken to high five you guys.

After all it wouldn’t be the first time a high ranking official of a company jumped the gun at a celebratory even. I’ve been in the Industry too long and I know how things go on this front.

Not at all. But two things can be true at the same time.

I think the reasoning I set forth is pretty clear... Alexander Dorow, a United MD, told a blogger in January that there are "no plans" for a Polaris Lounge at Denver. At the time, there was indeed no plan in the 2023 capital or operating budgets for a Polaris Lounge in Denver, and he was likely specifically directed by his superiors (this would be either Toby or Linda, not entirely sure who he reports to) not to comment on future, unbudgeted capital projects. At United (and elsewhere), code for this directive is sometimes, "we'll soon have more to share with you" or "stay tuned." So, when pressed directly on the issue, the answer is "no plans," which clearly is not the same thing as "never".

At the same time, perhaps in a different silo, corporate real estate has to balance short term budgets with long-term strategic plans. That's why United obtained the rights to the mezzanine space in the western node of the new A concourse as a "future lounge project" which was internally understood to mean Polaris, since a large United Club was already in the budget about 100 yards away. As an aside, United has rights to space in a number of airports that currently do not have a United Club, even though there are currently "no plans" to increase the United Club footprint, with budgets directed at renovating and expanding existing lounges, especially in hubs.

Kirby is a frequent visitor to DEN and no doubt has a personal interest in the project there. It was generally known internally that DEN would eventually receive a Polaris Lounge, but without a timeline to build it out, it was decided not to release that to the public until United is further along in the planning process. United is sensitive to criticism it received with the initial announcement of the Polaris product, with the full vision being years away.

Bottom line, this is hardly something to get worked up over.

So eloquently and straightforwardly laid out, thank you!

I had an epiphany the other day while stuck in typical LAX traffic- United should flip out of T7 and into the new T9 instead. T8 remains the same and T7 becomes the shared Star hub location. This way you still consolidate all partners, rebrand existing lounges, maintain customs access, etc. The obvious goal being- having an all new United T9 front door outside the chaos of the horseshoe appealing to the frequent user O&D crowd vs more fleeting alliance passengers.

It sounds like the cost of T9 is spiraling in typical LA construction fashion but ultimately local fliers would benefit most and hopefully help the huge investment pay off by attracting high fare customers from competitors. I know the new central terminal train hopes to clear much of the traffic out of the core but even then United would still benefit being closest to the shared ride spot, rental car center, etc.

I know I know, never gonna happen, but hey gotta dare to dream....

https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1661459532508278784

In one of his interviews yesterday, Kirby mentioned growing IAD from four banks to seven.

That would be significant growth in IAD, positioning it into a more competitive position against DCA as DCA remains slot constrained.

It would also be a good place for a lot of the new aircraft deliveries.

We see the plans that United has for Denver with it's expansion plans. But where is the plans to grow IAH, or are they downsizing.

Manderson12 wrote:

We see the plans that United has for Denver with it's expansion plans. But where is the plans to grow IAH, or are they downsizing.

United is not planning to downsize anywhere. UA is growing gauge at IAH like it is elsewhere.

LAXdude1023 wrote:

That is no doubt gonna come with some EWR connection drawback.

With 700 aircraft deliveries, I don’t think growth in one hub will have to come at the expense of another.

PA815 wrote:

LAXdude1023 wrote:

That is no doubt gonna come with some EWR connection drawback.

With 700 aircraft deliveries, I don’t think growth in one hub will have to come at the expense of another.

codc10 wrote:

Manderson12 wrote:

We see the plans that United has for Denver with it's expansion plans. But where is the plans to grow IAH, or are they downsizing.

United is not planning to downsize anywhere. UA is growing gauge at IAH like it is elsewhere.

I don’t think there is any reason to believe any hub will be downsized. This is Scott Kirby and United we’re talking about. Some hubs have more growth opportunities than others, but over the next 5-10 years I’m sure all 7 hubs will grow substantially. They’re investing in the planes, gates and real estate, and employees to significantly grow.

PA815 wrote:

https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1661459532508278784

In one of his interviews yesterday, Kirby mentioned growing IAD from four banks to seven.

That would be significant growth in IAD, positioning it into a more competitive position against DCA as DCA remains slot constrained.

It would also be a good place for a lot of the new aircraft deliveries.

Going to 7 banks should be the ultimate kickstarter to IAD’s maturity.

IAH has 50 seat jet-itis that still has to be addressed along with relatively low frequency to spokes that DL from ATL and of course the AA megahub at DFW just devour traffic with gauge and frequency.

How long will DEN-SJU be?