Manderson12 wrote:

We see the plans that United has for Denver with it's expansion plans. But where is the plans to grow IAH, or are they downsizing.

sldispatcher wrote:

PA815 wrote:

https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1661459532508278784

In one of his interviews yesterday, Kirby mentioned growing IAD from four banks to seven.

That would be significant growth in IAD, positioning it into a more competitive position against DCA as DCA remains slot constrained.

It would also be a good place for a lot of the new aircraft deliveries.

Going to 7 banks should be the ultimate kickstarter to IAD’s maturity.

IAH has 50 seat jet-itis that still has to be addressed along with relatively low frequency to spokes that DL from ATL and of course the AA megahub at DFW just devour traffic with gauge and frequency.

airportgeek wrote:

sldispatcher wrote:

PA815 wrote:

https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1661459532508278784

In one of his interviews yesterday, Kirby mentioned growing IAD from four banks to seven.

That would be significant growth in IAD, positioning it into a more competitive position against DCA as DCA remains slot constrained.

It would also be a good place for a lot of the new aircraft deliveries.

Going to 7 banks should be the ultimate kickstarter to IAD’s maturity.

IAH has 50 seat jet-itis that still has to be addressed along with relatively low frequency to spokes that DL from ATL and of course the AA megahub at DFW just devour traffic with gauge and frequency.

Agreed. United NEXT will focus a lot of resources on the mid-continent hubs DEN/ORD/IAH. However, out of the remaining hubs IAD is certain to see the most growth. With the new 14-gate concourse, UA can run much larger banks. There’s also abundant room for future growth. Plus UA has the advantage of dominating the one major international gateway for the entire DC-Baltimore region. It’s probably a blessing that WN is the one who dominates BWI, rather than hub-spoke carrier which would compete more directly with UA. Population growth in NOVA is also looking very good. As the capital, DC also commands enormous amounts of high-value O&D pax traffic for a metro area of it’s sixe. IAD should eventually become the largest hub of any airline in the Northeast by far. I’m glad UA is finally capitalizing on the massive opportunity they have.

Now if they would just set up a small hub in the South/Florida… Then they would be primed to dominate the domestic market too. Their DEN/IAH/ORD strategy will cover almost all of the US domestically, but there is still that one major hole.

Pi7472000 wrote:

Manderson12 wrote:

We see the plans that United has for Denver with it's expansion plans. But where is the plans to grow IAH, or are they downsizing.

I would not be surprised to see more stagnation at IAH. The clubs at IAH feel outdated. The club in E really needs to be redone, but United does not seem to be investing much in IAH except for some flights to Latin America. DEN will have new clubs, and the largest one in the system. IAH is not DEN, EWR, or ORD in the network. We will see growth at IAD as well. It is amazing to see how well DEN and ORD have held up in the merger. Many on the CO side said IAH was a crown jewel and would come at the expense of DEN and ORD. It is great to hear a Polaris lounge may be in the future of DEN. There are many people who start International trips in DEN and connect on through cities like IAD, EWR, or ORD.

Tayo826 wrote:

How long will DEN-SJU be?

Pi7472000 wrote:

Manderson12 wrote:

We see the plans that United has for Denver with it's expansion plans. But where is the plans to grow IAH, or are they downsizing.

I would not be surprised to see more stagnation at IAH. The clubs at IAH feel outdated. The club in E really needs to be redone, but United does not seem to be investing much in IAH except for some flights to Latin America. DEN will have new clubs, and the largest one in the system. IAH is not DEN, EWR, or ORD in the network. We will see growth at IAD as well. It is amazing to see how well DEN and ORD have held up in the merger. Many on the CO side said IAH was a crown jewel and would come at the expense of DEN and ORD. It is great to hear a Polaris lounge may be in the future of DEN. There are many people who start International trips in DEN and connect on through cities like IAD, EWR, or ORD.

airportgeek wrote:

sldispatcher wrote:

PA815 wrote:

https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1661459532508278784

In one of his interviews yesterday, Kirby mentioned growing IAD from four banks to seven.

That would be significant growth in IAD, positioning it into a more competitive position against DCA as DCA remains slot constrained.

It would also be a good place for a lot of the new aircraft deliveries.

Going to 7 banks should be the ultimate kickstarter to IAD’s maturity.

IAH has 50 seat jet-itis that still has to be addressed along with relatively low frequency to spokes that DL from ATL and of course the AA megahub at DFW just devour traffic with gauge and frequency.

Agreed. United NEXT will focus a lot of resources on the mid-continent hubs DEN/ORD/IAH. However, out of the remaining hubs IAD is certain to see the most growth. With the new 14-gate concourse, UA can run much larger banks. There’s also abundant room for future growth. Plus UA has the advantage of dominating the one major international gateway for the entire DC-Baltimore region. It’s probably a blessing that WN is the one who dominates BWI, rather than hub-spoke carrier which would compete more directly with UA. Population growth in NOVA is also looking very good. As the capital, DC also commands enormous amounts of high-value O&D pax traffic for a metro area of it’s sixe. IAD should eventually become the largest hub of any airline in the Northeast by far. I’m glad UA is finally capitalizing on the massive opportunity they have.

Now if they would just set up a small hub in the South/Florida… Then they would be primed to dominate the domestic market too. Their DEN/IAH/ORD strategy will cover almost all of the US domestically, but there is still that one major hole.

CALMSP wrote:

I was thinking DEN-SJU would be a redeye, but its on the 0930 bank.

CALMSP wrote:

I was thinking DEN-SJU would be a redeye, but its on the 0930 bank.

codc10 wrote:

CALMSP wrote:

I was thinking DEN-SJU would be a redeye, but its on the 0930 bank.

Clearly aimed at the local or West Coast-DEN-SJU leisure market. The SJU redeyes tend to be heavily favored by the VFR crowd and Puerto Rico point of sale.

airportgeek wrote:

DC also commands enormous amounts of high-value O&D pax traffic for a metro area of it’s sixe.

USAirALB wrote:

airportgeek wrote:

DC also commands enormous amounts of high-value O&D pax traffic for a metro area of it’s sixe.

I'm not sure why folks on this forum make DC out to be some backwater town.

The Greater Baltimore-Washington metro area just passed Chicagoland last year in population and is now the third largest metro area in the country.

joeljack wrote:

CALMSP wrote:

I was thinking DEN-SJU would be a redeye, but its on the 0930 bank.

The plane arrives SJU 6pm and there are no United flights after it leaving SJU. Does it do a VERY long RON or is another SJU flight announcement coming? Hmmmm.

jetblastdubai wrote:

Tayo826 wrote:

How long will DEN-SJU be?

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=den-sju

2,733 statute miles. About the same at BOS-SFO but with the altitude issue at DEN.

Tayo826 wrote:

jetblastdubai wrote:

Tayo826 wrote:

How long will DEN-SJU be?

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=den-sju

2,733 statute miles. About the same at BOS-SFO but with the altitude issue at DEN.

I meant the flight time.

travaz wrote:

Anyone know why UA 231 LAX LHR diverted back to LAX today? One of the live streamers is showing Maintenance working on the R2 door. Flight now cancelled.

LAXintl wrote:

The Airline Observer has a story about the DEN growth and how UA is going head to head against Southwest for the local Denver customer.

https://www.theairlineobserver.com/p/wh ... ke-up-with?

Also a few added tidbits from Linda Jojo about the state of catering at United which is supposedly improving.

LAXdude1023 wrote:

PA815 wrote:

LAXdude1023 wrote:

This is ironic to me. They literally just said no plans for a Polaris Lounge in DEN in February. Now they shift direction. Im curious to know what went on behind the scenes...

Maybe they just didn’t want to make the official announcement. Kirby made it sound like he was spilling the beans ahead of the “official” update.

With up to 200 787s on the delivery books along with all the new international-capable gates coming online in DEN, I wouldn’t be surprised to see more long haul routes announced.

The tweet from JonNYC that details the fleet growth shows some 787 deliveries next year, but they’ll join the fleet in larger numbers in 2025. Maybe that’s when the new routes will begin? Timing would work well with the potential PL opening date.

If that is the case, it was poorly done. In February, they completely shot down the idea. They didn't seem to leave room for ambiguity.

This would fly in the face of their strategy. UA seems to be retrenching into mentalization, not expanding hub roles. I laid out the evidence for that a few posts ago. Aside from the DEN Polaris lounge everything else still stands. Maybe in future DEN and IAH will get more Europe at some point but it would mean a shift in strategy.

Pi7472000 wrote:

Manderson12 wrote:

We see the plans that United has for Denver with it's expansion plans. But where is the plans to grow IAH, or are they downsizing.

I would not be surprised to see more stagnation at IAH. The clubs at IAH feel outdated. The club in E really needs to be redone, but United does not seem to be investing much in IAH except for some flights to Latin America. DEN will have new clubs, and the largest one in the system. IAH is not DEN, EWR, or ORD in the network. We will see growth at IAD as well. It is amazing to see how well is thereand ORD have held up in the merger. Many on the CO side said IAH was a crown jewel and would come at the expense of DEN and ORD. It is great to hear a Polaris lounge may be in the future of DEN. There are many people who start International trips in DEN and connect on through cities like IAD, EWR, or ORD.

strfyr51 wrote:

LAXdude1023 wrote:

PA815 wrote:

Maybe they just didn’t want to make the official announcement. Kirby made it sound like he was spilling the beans ahead of the “official” update.

With up to 200 787s on the delivery books along with all the new international-capable gates coming online in DEN, I wouldn’t be surprised to see more long haul routes announced.

The tweet from JonNYC that details the fleet growth shows some 787 deliveries next year, but they’ll join the fleet in larger numbers in 2025. Maybe that’s when the new routes will begin? Timing would work well with the potential PL opening date.

If that is the case, it was poorly done. In February, they completely shot down the idea. They didn't seem to leave room for ambiguity.

This would fly in the face of their strategy. UA seems to be retrenching into mentalization, not expanding hub roles. I laid out the evidence for that a few posts ago. Aside from the DEN Polaris lounge everything else still stands. Maybe in future DEN and IAH will get more Europe at some point but it would mean a shift in strategy.

what exactly is Hub compartmentalization? I worked for United for 33 years and I NEVER heard that term used. So? How would it work? all the hubs basically operate the same. Their delays and cancellations are reviewed 4x per day in ops meetings.and on conference calls on each shift. I worked on Maintenance control at the WHQ and sometimes had to listen to the conference calls. I never heard of any Hub that needed help and didn't get it. The hub managers were all VP level and if somebody wasn't pulling their load? we all would have known about it United has and strives for departure goals, On Time goals, Cancellation goals00 and out of service goals. there was NEVER a time when any station that needed help didn't get it, even Airplanes. More than once I had airplanes ready for trips where some other station was in a Jam and they took the airplanes I had ready for my own departures to cover that Station's needs and ferried their airplane to Us at SFO to
fix. No station ever went it alone, if they had troubles? all they had to do was sing out. Once I remember we had weather troubles in IAH where the roads were under water, We ferried people and airplanes there to cover them until the high water subsided and the roads reopened. The only time I can remember where we couldn't help, and couldn't get help at SFO was after the Loma Prieta earthquake.and the Power outage on the west coast. where the whole Bay area was dark for a few hours. Couldn't get help because there was nothing anybody could do. We chilled and the power eventually got fixed and came back on. That was a wild day. But every Hub being alone? Didn't happen and never happened. Period!

avi8 wrote:

Why are people talking about how IAH isn’t important? It’s their 3rd largest hub and only about 15-20 flights behind Denver in terms of daily departures. It is also one of the most important and diverse air markets in the country.

drerx7 wrote:

strfyr51 wrote:

LAXdude1023 wrote:

If that is the case, it was poorly done. In February, they completely shot down the idea. They didn't seem to leave room for ambiguity.

This would fly in the face of their strategy. UA seems to be retrenching into mentalization, not expanding hub roles. I laid out the evidence for that a few posts ago. Aside from the DEN Polaris lounge everything else still stands. Maybe in future DEN and IAH will get more Europe at some point but it would mean a shift in strategy.

what exactly is Hub compartmentalization? I worked for United for 33 years and I NEVER heard that term used. So? How would it work? all the hubs basically operate the same. Their delays and cancellations are reviewed 4x per day in ops meetings.and on conference calls on each shift. I worked on Maintenance control at the WHQ and sometimes had to listen to the conference calls. I never heard of any Hub that needed help and didn't get it. The hub managers were all VP level and if somebody wasn't pulling their load? we all would have known about it United has and strives for departure goals, On Time goals, Cancellation goals00 and out of service goals. there was NEVER a time when any station that needed help didn't get it, even Airplanes. More than once I had airplanes ready for trips where some other station was in a Jam and they took the airplanes I had ready for my own departures to cover that Station's needs and ferried their airplane to Us at SFO to
fix. No station ever went it alone, if they had troubles? all they had to do was sing out. Once I remember we had weather troubles in IAH where the roads were under water, We ferried people and airplanes there to cover them until the high water subsided and the roads reopened. The only time I can remember where we couldn't help, and couldn't get help at SFO was after the Loma Prieta earthquake.and the Power outage on the west coast. where the whole Bay area was dark for a few hours. Couldn't get help because there was nothing anybody could do. We chilled and the power eventually got fixed and came back on. That was a wild day. But every Hub being alone? Didn't happen and never happened. Period!

He is referring to each hub having a clear objective and also how United connects smaller stations to hubs via distance.

avi8 wrote:

Why are people talking about how IAH isn’t important? It’s their 3rd largest hub and only about 15-20 flights behind Denver in terms of daily departures. It is also one of the most important and diverse air markets in the country.

strfyr51 wrote:

what exactly is Hub compartmentalization? I worked for United for 33 years and I NEVER heard that term used. So? How would it work?

LAXintl wrote:

The Airline Observer has a story about the DEN growth and how UA is going head to head against Southwest for the local Denver customer.

https://www.theairlineobserver.com/p/wh ... ke-up-with?

Also a few added tidbits from Linda Jojo about the state of catering at United which is supposedly improving.

UALFAson wrote:

strfyr51 wrote:

what exactly is Hub compartmentalization? I worked for United for 33 years and I NEVER heard that term used. So? How would it work?

It means instead of flying everywhere from every hub, each hub has a role to play in the overall network. So, for example, South America is served from IAH, not also ORD or DEN. European flights are concentrated in EWR and IAD with a growing ORD contingent, but there's not a ton of service from IAH or DEN. Domestic connections are routed through ORD/IAH/DEN, but not as much IAD or SFO.

What it leads to on this board are fan boys who are offended that their home airport isn't an ATL-style megahub and we wind up with 20 or 30 posts complaining about why UA hasn't started specific routes outside of the strategy like LAX-FRA or IAH-CDG.

I would argue AA is doing a less-nuanced version of this strategy by focusing their resources on CLT and DFW hubs while letting PHL, ORD, and maybe LAX stagnate a bit.

Hammmmmmer wrote:

United cutting BOS-LHR as of October 28. In addition, LAX-LHR will switch to a 787-10 for the winter https://twitter.com/ishriona/status/166 ... kVbDP2uTwA

I heard UA started the route because of lucrative corporate contracts in BOS. Maybe it wasn’t enough.

FlyingSicilian wrote:

LAXPolaris wrote:

UALFAson wrote:

It means instead of flying everywhere from every hub, each hub has a role to play in the overall network. So, for example, South America is served from IAH, not also ORD or DEN. European flights are concentrated in EWR and IAD with a growing ORD contingent, but there's not a ton of service from IAH or DEN. Domestic connections are routed through ORD/IAH/DEN, but not as much IAD or SFO.

What it leads to on this board are fan boys who are offended that their home airport isn't an ATL-style megahub and we wind up with 20 or 30 posts complaining about why UA hasn't started specific routes outside of the strategy like LAX-FRA or IAH-CDG.

I would argue AA is doing a less-nuanced version of this strategy by focusing their resources on CLT and DFW hubs while letting PHL, ORD, and maybe LAX stagnate a bit.

I agree with what you said here regarding the role each hub plays, but LAX-FRA and IAH-CDG aren't great examples of routes "outside of the strategy", especially Frankfurt. How does LAX-FRA not fit into the strategy? Routing customers through a JV hub is part of the strategy, all 7 hubs have flights into NRT or HND to allow Asia connections, and all hubs except LAX have flights on UA metal into FRA for European connections. So I disagree when you say that wouldn't fit into the strategy. UA has just let LH handle that route on their own metal to date, but I believe that will change in the coming years.

As for IAH-CDG, it definitely isn't at the top of the priority list, the fact they doubled IAD-CDG over adding service from a new hub shows that, but with that said IAH-CDG is still a good size market, and this is a route we could see down the road. With the amount of WBs on order there are tons of opportunities down the road. IAH-CDG could fall into the bucket of a route that has sufficient O&D demand to justify a nonstop, similar to IAH-AMS.

There are better examples that are frequently posted about on this site that don't make sense. LAX-TLV is a route I've seen posted multiple times on here that doesn't seem realistic at all. But IAH-CDG and especially LAX-FRA have a valid case.

IAH - CDG could come back one day (in the sense that CO flew it for a while pre-m) as there is a good premium demand, however the daily Air France flight has a lot of the contracts for said premium demand. It would be great to see it back, but UA would have to secure some front end contracts first. Look at BA as an another example. They serve IAH double daily (as does UA) and it is one of BA's lowest load factor N.A. routes per data published here in A.net, but it is heavy, heavy premium and cargo demand so BA does well. UA needs that for CDG.

I personally would prefer to see a new dot on the airport route map for IAH such as BRU, MAD, or ZRH from UA. An Italian flight would make my life much easier, and like nearly every other world oil company ENI have a NA Headquarters in Houston but it is not enough demand for a flight, plus UA can route back-end via IAD/EWR.

Hammmmmmer wrote:

United cutting BOS-LHR as of October 28. In addition, LAX-LHR will switch to a 787-10 for the winter https://twitter.com/ishriona/status/166 ... kVbDP2uTwA

I heard UA started the route because of lucrative corporate contracts in BOS. Maybe it wasn’t enough.

CALMSP wrote:

FlyingSicilian wrote:

LAXPolaris wrote:

I agree with what you said here regarding the role each hub plays, but LAX-FRA and IAH-CDG aren't great examples of routes "outside of the strategy", especially Frankfurt. How does LAX-FRA not fit into the strategy? Routing customers through a JV hub is part of the strategy, all 7 hubs have flights into NRT or HND to allow Asia connections, and all hubs except LAX have flights on UA metal into FRA for European connections. So I disagree when you say that wouldn't fit into the strategy. UA has just let LH handle that route on their own metal to date, but I believe that will change in the coming years.

United mgmt clearly stated that IAH-CDG LOST money most of that time that CO operated it. Without having a tie to Sky Team members, I don't see how that route should be remotely a priority. Can we just give it a rest on this one route coming up every week on here? It doesn't matter what Air France is doing on the route.
As for IAH-CDG, it definitely isn't at the top of the priority list, the fact they doubled IAD-CDG over adding service from a new hub shows that, but with that said IAH-CDG is still a good size market, and this is a route we could see down the road. With the amount of WBs on order there are tons of opportunities down the road. IAH-CDG could fall into the bucket of a route that has sufficient O&D demand to justify a nonstop, similar to IAH-AMS.

There are better examples that are frequently posted about on this site that don't make sense. LAX-TLV is a route I've seen posted multiple times on here that doesn't seem realistic at all. But IAH-CDG and especially LAX-FRA have a valid case.

IAH - CDG could come back one day (in the sense that CO flew it for a while pre-m) as there is a good premium demand, however the daily Air France flight has a lot of the contracts for said premium demand. It would be great to see it back, but UA would have to secure some front end contracts first. Look at BA as an another example. They serve IAH double daily (as does UA) and it is one of BA's lowest load factor N.A. routes per data published here in A.net, but it is heavy, heavy premium and cargo demand so BA does well. UA needs that for CDG.

I personally would prefer to see a new dot on the airport route map for IAH such as BRU, MAD, or ZRH from UA. An Italian flight would make my life much easier, and like nearly every other world oil company ENI have a NA Headquarters in Houston but it is not enough demand for a flight, plus UA can route back-end via IAD/EWR.

UA can easily restart IAH-CDG, at a minimum seasonally. I'm not sure after all these years and continued push on European markets it has not come back. While you mention the push on "up front contracts", most of that doesn't exist like it used to. Business travel isn't what it used to be and still a long ways from coming back.

Hammmmmmer wrote:

United cutting BOS-LHR as of October 28. In addition, LAX-LHR will switch to a 787-10 for the winter https://twitter.com/ishriona/status/166 ... kVbDP2uTwA

I heard UA started the route because of lucrative corporate contracts in BOS. Maybe it wasn’t enough.

jonahsachs wrote:

Hammmmmmer wrote:

United cutting BOS-LHR as of October 28. In addition, LAX-LHR will switch to a 787-10 for the winter https://twitter.com/ishriona/status/166 ... kVbDP2uTwA

I heard UA started the route because of lucrative corporate contracts in BOS. Maybe it wasn’t enough.

Somewhat surprised. Flight usually went out pretty full. Completely full tonight.

LAXPolaris wrote:

Point to point routes are very difficult. What all are we left with? A few out of CLE, besides that I can't think of any.

SNA-HNL, which was a pandemic era add, is gone.
HNL-NRT does not appear to be coming back. In UA's fight with DL on the HND slots they mentioned LAX-NRT is resuming in Oct, but no mention of HNL so assume it's not coming back.
BOS-LHR was the last one I can think of, and now it's going away as well.

What will UA do with the extra slot? I think either IAD or ORD could use an additional LHR flight. As of now next summer to LHR looks like:

EWR - 7x daily
IAD - 3x daily
ORD - 3x daily
SFO - 3x daily
IAH - 2x daily
LAX - 2x daily
DEN - 2x daily

The 23rd slot used to be BOS, will be curious where they put it. Just don't put an 8th on EWR, give it to IAD or ORD. IAD could use a 3rd evening flight, or ORD could use a morning flight.

jonahsachs wrote:

Hammmmmmer wrote:

United cutting BOS-LHR as of October 28. In addition, LAX-LHR will switch to a 787-10 for the winter https://twitter.com/ishriona/status/166 ... kVbDP2uTwA

I heard UA started the route because of lucrative corporate contracts in BOS. Maybe it wasn’t enough.

Somewhat surprised. Flight usually went out pretty full. Completely full tonight.

fun2fly wrote:

jonahsachs wrote:

Hammmmmmer wrote:

United cutting BOS-LHR as of October 28. In addition, LAX-LHR will switch to a 787-10 for the winter https://twitter.com/ishriona/status/166 ... kVbDP2uTwA

I heard UA started the route because of lucrative corporate contracts in BOS. Maybe it wasn’t enough.

Somewhat surprised. Flight usually went out pretty full. Completely full tonight.

I would have thought it would go to a 752 for the winter vs. cancel. Any chance of a 2024 return or is it dead?

B752OS wrote:

fun2fly wrote:

jonahsachs wrote:

Somewhat surprised. Flight usually went out pretty full. Completely full tonight.

I would have thought it would go to a 752 for the winter vs. cancel. Any chance of a 2024 return or is it dead?

I would just assume it's dead. Boston to London has a large amount of capacity between B6 (daily to LHR and daily to LGW), VS (daily to LHR), DL (daily to LHR), AA (daily to LHR) and BA (3-4 Daily to LHR), plus N0 is starting LGW daily (5 weekly in winter) in September. Something had to give as Boston is not NYC or LA in terms of market size to London and even Europe at large.

LAXPolaris wrote:

What will UA do with the extra slot? I think either IAD or ORD could use an additional LHR flight. As of now next summer to LHR looks like:

EWR - 7x daily
IAD - 3x daily
ORD - 3x daily
SFO - 3x daily
IAH - 2x daily
LAX - 2x daily
DEN - 2x daily

The 23rd slot used to be BOS, will be curious where they put it. Just don't put an 8th on EWR, give it to IAD or ORD. IAD could use a 3rd evening flight, or ORD could use a morning flight.