Flair Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

cirrusdragoon · Wed May 03, 2023 2:42 am

Hockeyfan125 wrote:
whywhycee wrote:
Flair announced a new base in Calgary. Ironically, one day after WestJets new YEG based opened.

I'm sure Lynx and WS will respond accordingly to defend their turf.

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/flair-airlin ... -1.6379883

That's good. Flair's new base adds new jobs/ increased flight frequencies for YYC & WestJet Edmonton YEG base does the same.

But what really matters is passengers demand, to make things work out better for all airlines.

Sheer flipping hubris from the ceo … making claims when Flair allowed 4 planes to be seized due to late lease payments. We do not seem to be seeing that with Lynxair or Westjet or even Porter for that matter.

aklak · Wed May 03, 2023 3:14 am

JakeLRS wrote:
Looks like flair will be getting 2 aircraft from Bonza instead of one.

Source: https://globalnews.ca/news/9667575/flai ... gary-base/

I'm not seeing where you're getting that in that article. Coincidentally, the original announcement about Flair getting a Bonza tail was made almost a month ago, but it hasn't been registered in Canada yet.

nkops · Wed May 03, 2023 10:31 am

jimbo737 wrote:
The October 2022 trans border numbers are in.

Industry wide, the trans-border l/f was 81%.

Canadian domiciled carriers carried 69.3% of the traffic with an l/f of 81.2%. US domiciled carriers carried 30.7% of traffic with an 80.4% l/f.

WestJet and Swoop remain in first place with a consolidated l/f of 85.5% followed by, wait for it, Transat at 81.2%, then Porter at 80.9%, then AC Consolidated at 80.4%. Bear in mind that Transat had 1% of total capacity and Porter had 3.5%.

Flair remains in last place of the Canadian carriers with a 67.6% l/f and a 1.6% share of seats in the market.

BNA continues to be a dog at Flair, and I'd bet SFB is in the same boat, but there may be signs of life in markets such as JFK, LAS and FLL. A number of additional markets had so little capacity in Oct that it's way to early to make a call, even with sub 50% loads. None of Flair's trans border markets are anywhere near break even on a fully allocated basis, (the only basis that matters), unless you believe Flair's BELF is 6% pts lower than Spirit Airlines in the US.

On a macro level, we know Flair was dragging payments during this period, resulting in 4 aircraft being repossessed in March.

We also know that Spirit, with the economies of scale inherent with a fleet of 194 aircraft and an asl of 998 miles, reported an operating margin, (excluding a $348.2m special charge, but including interest as an expense), of -.41%, an average fair including ancillary revenue of us$135.62 and a BELF of 81.35%. Spirit pays at least 10% less per gallon for fuel than Flair.

You can safely assume Flair's numbers are no where near Spirit's.

As long as someone keeps the bathtub topped up with water, (ie pumps cash in), Flair will continue as they lurch from peak period to peak period.

WS's potential pilots strike is a bookings/ cash lifesaver for both Lynx and Flair. It's a dream come true for both management teams.

Remember: 2Q was traditionally WS's softest quarter over their first 20 years of existence. It'll be no different at Flair.

As far as SFB, I don't think it is doing terrible. F8 is probably going to be helped a little with Swoop pulling out of SFB. Flair did extend the seasonal flights (except YKF) until June, and next winter YYZ goes to daily with no Swoop competition on the route. I don't know if there is any site that breaks down each route by LF or not, so I could be wrong.

Edit: I just noticed in schedule starting in Oct that Flair is doing SFB-YUL daily

Dominion301 · Wed May 03, 2023 3:42 pm

nkops wrote:
jimbo737 wrote:
The October 2022 trans border numbers are in.

Industry wide, the trans-border l/f was 81%.

Canadian domiciled carriers carried 69.3% of the traffic with an l/f of 81.2%. US domiciled carriers carried 30.7% of traffic with an 80.4% l/f.

WestJet and Swoop remain in first place with a consolidated l/f of 85.5% followed by, wait for it, Transat at 81.2%, then Porter at 80.9%, then AC Consolidated at 80.4%. Bear in mind that Transat had 1% of total capacity and Porter had 3.5%.

Flair remains in last place of the Canadian carriers with a 67.6% l/f and a 1.6% share of seats in the market.

BNA continues to be a dog at Flair, and I'd bet SFB is in the same boat, but there may be signs of life in markets such as JFK, LAS and FLL. A number of additional markets had so little capacity in Oct that it's way to early to make a call, even with sub 50% loads. None of Flair's trans border markets are anywhere near break even on a fully allocated basis, (the only basis that matters), unless you believe Flair's BELF is 6% pts lower than Spirit Airlines in the US.

On a macro level, we know Flair was dragging payments during this period, resulting in 4 aircraft being repossessed in March.

We also know that Spirit, with the economies of scale inherent with a fleet of 194 aircraft and an asl of 998 miles, reported an operating margin, (excluding a $348.2m special charge, but including interest as an expense), of -.41%, an average fair including ancillary revenue of us$135.62 and a BELF of 81.35%. Spirit pays at least 10% less per gallon for fuel than Flair.

You can safely assume Flair's numbers are no where near Spirit's.

As long as someone keeps the bathtub topped up with water, (ie pumps cash in), Flair will continue as they lurch from peak period to peak period.

WS's potential pilots strike is a bookings/ cash lifesaver for both Lynx and Flair. It's a dream come true for both management teams.

Remember: 2Q was traditionally WS's softest quarter over their first 20 years of existence. It'll be no different at Flair.

As far as SFB, I don't think it is doing terrible. F8 is probably going to be helped a little with Swoop pulling out of SFB. Flair did extend the seasonal flights (except YKF) until June, and next winter YYZ goes to daily with no Swoop competition on the route. I don't know if there is any site that breaks down each route by LF or not, so I could be wrong.

Edit: I just noticed in schedule starting in Oct that Flair is doing SFB-YUL daily

I see YOW-SFB is also increasing from 3x to 4x weekly next winter.

Juju2004 · Wed May 03, 2023 5:34 pm

YUL-FLL daily as well operating as FLL-YUL-FLL

Skywatcher · Wed May 03, 2023 6:27 pm

Juju2004 wrote:
YUL-FLL daily as well operating as FLL-YUL-FLL

You would think that this is exactly the type of route that Flair should excel at given the huge traffic numbers. Before covid AC had 6 daily 767's on this route at it's peak. AT and WS were also competing albeit with far less capacity.

CrewBunk · Wed May 03, 2023 6:38 pm

Skywatcher wrote:
Before covid AC had 6 daily 767's on this route at it's peak. AT and WS were also competing albeit with far less capacity.

I see next winter, AC has 3 daily A330s and 2 daily A220s flying YUL-FLL. Flair should do extremely well on this route.

jimbo737 · Wed May 03, 2023 7:31 pm

WS cancelled FLL-YUL after the 2018 winter-spring season.

According to US DOT data, WS operated it with a l/f of 91.8%.

Lots of traffic, dirt cheap stage length adjusted unit costs, not to mention trip costs, but horrible yields...they were down to $61 one way at one point.

AC will defend this route vigorously and will flood the market with capacity.

But not to worry.

Flair has it all figured out with $71 fares + bag fees.

:lol:

cirrusdragoon · Wed May 03, 2023 8:42 pm

jimbo737 wrote:
WS cancelled FLL-YUL after the 2018 winter-spring season.

According to US DOT data, WS operated it with a l/f of 91.8%.

Lots of traffic, dirt cheap stage length adjusted unit costs, not to mention trip costs, but horrible yields...they were down to $61 one way at one point.

AC will defend this route vigorously and will flood the market with capacity.

But not to worry.

Flair has it all figured out with $71 fares + bag fees.

Perhaps they can lease an A380 for the route?

9252fly · Wed May 03, 2023 8:52 pm

cirrusdragoon wrote:
jimbo737 wrote:
WS cancelled FLL-YUL after the 2018 winter-spring season.

According to US DOT data, WS operated it with a l/f of 91.8%.

Lots of traffic, dirt cheap stage length adjusted unit costs, not to mention trip costs, but horrible yields...they were down to $61 one way at one point.

AC will defend this route vigorously and will flood the market with capacity.

But not to worry.

Flair has it all figured out with $71 fares + bag fees.

Perhaps they can lease an A380 for the route?

Well, the maximum seating capacity (exit limit) on an A380 is 853, not sure what the seat pitch would be but I'm guessing luxurious by ULCC standards. Just think of the revenue possibilities, $71 X 853 = $60,503, that's some serious cash. Forget the naysayers who pooh-pooh the idea on operating costs.

ddp · Wed May 03, 2023 9:19 pm

jimbo737 wrote:
WS cancelled FLL-YUL after the 2018 winter-spring season.

According to US DOT data, WS operated it with a l/f of 91.8%.

Lots of traffic, dirt cheap stage length adjusted unit costs, not to mention trip costs, but horrible yields...they were down to $61 one way at one point.

AC will defend this route vigorously and will flood the market with capacity.

But not to worry.

Flair has it all figured out with $71 fares + bag fees.

Westjet can't compete with AC out of Montreal. Their french is limited, way lower frequency than AC, terrible network out of Montreal, rewards program can't compete. And usually priced at similar rates as AC.

Flair is a different product, they are cheap so people will fly them if they can stay a decent amount lower than what AC charges.

Acey · Wed May 03, 2023 9:24 pm

ddp wrote:
jimbo737 wrote:
WS cancelled FLL-YUL after the 2018 winter-spring season.

According to US DOT data, WS operated it with a l/f of 91.8%.

Lots of traffic, dirt cheap stage length adjusted unit costs, not to mention trip costs, but horrible yields...they were down to $61 one way at one point.

AC will defend this route vigorously and will flood the market with capacity.

But not to worry.

Flair has it all figured out with $71 fares + bag fees.

Westjet can't compete with AC out of Montreal. Their french is limited, way lower frequency than AC, terrible network out of Montreal, rewards program can't compete. And usually priced at similar rates as AC.

Flair is a different product, they are cheap so people will fly them if they can stay a decent amount lower than what AC charges.

Except for the fact that when WS operated that route it was certainly a decent amount lower than what AC charged which nullifies your only criterion. Flair has limited French, way lower frequency than AC, terrible network out of YUL, and zero rewards program whatsoever.

cirrusdragoon · Wed May 03, 2023 9:30 pm

ddp wrote:
jimbo737 wrote:
WS cancelled FLL-YUL after the 2018 winter-spring season.

According to US DOT data, WS operated it with a l/f of 91.8%.

Lots of traffic, dirt cheap stage length adjusted unit costs, not to mention trip costs, but horrible yields...they were down to $61 one way at one point.

AC will defend this route vigorously and will flood the market with capacity.

But not to worry.

Flair has it all figured out with $71 fares + bag fees.

Westjet can't compete with AC out of Montreal. Their french is limited, way lower frequency than AC, terrible network out of Montreal, rewards program can't compete. And usually priced at similar rates as AC.

Flair is a different product, they are cheap so people will fly them if they can stay a decent amount lower than what AC charges.

Ahh but now WS group owns Sunwing , which has a good vacation market presence in Quebec, and guess what .. their revenues will all now be a part of the WS group. Muhahah

Juju2004 · Sat May 06, 2023 2:50 pm

Things appear to be going better at Flair from the ops side. Almost all flights are on-time now and their domestic load factor is very good on most routes, though Calgary-Saskatoon is starting soon and will likely be abysmal.

JakeLRS · Tue May 09, 2023 6:05 pm

Well this gonna be a discussion.

Lets see how long Flair will keep posting their stats. Could this be a move to get investors on board?

FLAIR_AprilStats2023_1 by freerealms454, on Flickr

FLAIR_AprilStats2022_2 by freerealms454, on Flickr

nkops · Tue May 09, 2023 6:35 pm

JakeLRS wrote:
Well this gonna be a discussion.

Lets see how long Flair will keep posting their stats. Could this be a move to get investors on board?

FLAIR_AprilStats2023_1 by freerealms454, on Flickr

FLAIR_AprilStats2022_2 by freerealms454, on Flickr

This is the first month I have seen this - is this something new?

Aresxerexade · Tue May 09, 2023 6:59 pm

JakeLRS wrote:
Well this gonna be a discussion.

Lets see how long Flair will keep posting their stats. Could this be a move to get investors on board?

FLAIR_AprilStats2023_1 by freerealms454, on Flickr

FLAIR_AprilStats2022_2 by freerealms454, on Flickr

OTP metric is cute…

jimbo737 · Tue May 09, 2023 7:56 pm

That April l/f was about the same as Canada 3000’s.

In other words, so what.

It’s l/f AND yield that’s important.

The Jays crowing about scoring 9 runs means nothing if they fail to mention the opposition scored 10.

Acey · Tue May 09, 2023 8:01 pm

The problem with the OTP is that Flair has as habit of flights being catastrophically late, like 6, 8, 10 hours... because they have no frames to recover. A frame will operate 6 consecutive sectors at 8+ hours delayed each, and then F8 pretends that's the same as a flight being 16 minutes late.

This is why I earlier suggested a statistic of delay minutes per sector, numbers that can easily be derived from public data, to be more representative of what you might actually face as a passenger in terms of delays. To this end, a WestJet or Air Canada flight is slightly more likely to be delayed as per these numbers, but a Flair delay is more likely to have a tangible impact on your travel plans. You'll find any posts in reference to this imaginary metric have been deleted.

sxf24 · Tue May 09, 2023 8:09 pm

jimbo737 wrote:
That April l/f was about the same as Canada 3000’s.

In other words, so what.

It’s l/f AND yield that’s important.

The Jays crowing about scoring 9 runs means nothing if they fail to mention the opposition scored 10.

While listed airlines typically present yields, I am not aware of anyone that compares against competition. Also, yields are meaningless without the context of costs.

Acey wrote:
The problem with the OTP is that Flair has as habit of flights being catastrophically late, like 6, 8, 10 hours... because they have no frames to recover. A frame will operate 6 consecutive sectors at 8+ hours delayed each, and then F8 pretends that's the same as a flight being 16 minutes late.

This is why I earlier suggested a statistic of delay minutes per sector, numbers that can easily be derived from public data, to be more representative of what you might actually face as a passenger in terms of delays. You'll find any posts in reference to this imaginary metric have been deleted.

This is the DL trick: extensive delays to avoid cancellation.

Acey · Tue May 09, 2023 8:13 pm

sxf24 wrote:
This is the DL trick: extensive delays to avoid cancellation.

They and UA are also fans of massive scheduling padding to achieve OTP, such that a flight departs on time and will then arrive 35-40 minutes early. This is not to say that OTP of Canadian airlines is acceptable, but there are contributing factors.

Lynx is starting to run into the "no frames to recover" scenario as well... like a couple weeks ago a frame was down at YYC with a bird strike, so they immediately delayed the LAS flight ~9 hours so their only other plane could do YYC-PHX-YYC and then do the YYC-LAS-YYC turn that was planned for the bird strike frame.

Juju2004 · Tue May 09, 2023 8:16 pm

Well thats good news

Dominion301 · Tue May 09, 2023 8:39 pm

jimbo737 wrote:
That April l/f was about the same as Canada 3000’s.

In other words, so what.

It’s l/f AND yield that’s important.

The Jays crowing about scoring 9 runs means nothing if they fail to mention the opposition scored 10.

One thing it does point to with the US DoT lag, is that TUS aside, their transborder l/f continued to improve from November-April.

Yeah yield tells the bigger picture. A lot of Canadian North routes have load factors under 33%, but the yield is astronomical apart from YEG/YYC-YZF...but those routes have much higher LFs. Not to mention all the cargo 5T carries. I know full service niche/specialty carrier vs ULCC is like comparing strawberries to oranges.

Jfermeee · Tue May 09, 2023 8:40 pm

Acey wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
This is the DL trick: extensive delays to avoid cancellation.

They and UA are also fans of massive scheduling padding to achieve OTP, such that a flight departs on time and will then arrive 35-40 minutes early. This is not to say that OTP of Canadian airlines is acceptable, but there are contributing factors.

in the US, AA increased block times by about 1.5% year over year, DL 0.8%, UA stayed same as 2022, WN has cut by 2%. But it's a fine balance. Padding means less utilization.

danipawa · Wed May 10, 2023 1:12 am

Flair requested to fly PUJ from YYZ, YOW, YKF starting Oct 29

jbs2886 · Wed May 10, 2023 1:26 am

Jfermeee wrote:
Acey wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
This is the DL trick: extensive delays to avoid cancellation.

They and UA are also fans of massive scheduling padding to achieve OTP, such that a flight departs on time and will then arrive 35-40 minutes early. This is not to say that OTP of Canadian airlines is acceptable, but there are contributing factors.

in the US, AA increased block times by about 1.5% year over year, DL 0.8%, UA stayed same as 2022, WN has cut by 2%. But it's a fine balance. Padding means less utilization.

Yup. OTP isn’t just marketing. It’s important for connections and frankly for customer satisfaction (customers won’t be happy if always somewhat late).

jimbo737 · Wed May 10, 2023 2:12 am

sxf24 wrote:
jimbo737 wrote:
That April l/f was about the same as Canada 3000’s.

In other words, so what.

It’s l/f AND yield that’s important.

The Jays crowing about scoring 9 runs means nothing if they fail to mention the opposition scored 10.

While listed airlines typically present yields, I am not aware of anyone that compares against competition. Also, yields are meaningless without the context of costs.

Acey wrote:
The problem with the OTP is that Flair has as habit of flights being catastrophically late, like 6, 8, 10 hours... because they have no frames to recover. A frame will operate 6 consecutive sectors at 8+ hours delayed each, and then F8 pretends that's the same as a flight being 16 minutes late.

This is why I earlier suggested a statistic of delay minutes per sector, numbers that can easily be derived from public data, to be more representative of what you might actually face as a passenger in terms of delays. You'll find any posts in reference to this imaginary metric have been deleted.

This is the DL trick: extensive delays to avoid cancellation.

Reverse engineering fully allocated costs to a granular level is a piece of cake, as is calculating their asl.

Costs without an asl calculation is meaningless.

Other than gains from densification and “juniority”, Flair’s stage length adjusted unit costs aren’t as interesting as you’d think.

Juniority disappears pretty quickly, esp as unions appear. Densification can be matched, but yield suffers.

jimbo737 · Wed May 10, 2023 2:13 am

Repeat post.

Acey · Wed May 10, 2023 2:29 am

Incompetence and shorthandedness of WestJet ground crew at YYC has a significant impact on their OTP. For example, Sunday's WS80 to NRT took a 45 minute on delay due to the pushback driver snapping the towbar off on the airplane. With flights ramping up this summer to their highest ever, these issues will get worse before they get better.

wjv04 · Wed May 10, 2023 2:44 am

Acey wrote:
Incompetence and shorthandedness of WestJet ground crew at YYC has a significant impact on their OTP. For example, Sunday's WS80 to NRT took a 45 minute on delay due to the pushback driver snapping the towbar off on the airplane. With flights ramping up this summer to their highest ever, these issues will get worse before they get better.

I don't disagree, but to be fair, ATS's performance has improved a fair bit since last summer. However this is the decision WJA/Onex have made. Its their bed and they can lay in it. Not a single employee supported the shutdown of TAC. Not that TAC wasn't capable of busting tow bars and bashing aircraft or equipment into aircraft either, but at least for the most part had the appearance of actually giving a crap, generally better paid , with better working conditions. Its was a good stepping stone to moving elsewhere in the company that no longer exists.

Acey · Wed May 10, 2023 2:48 am

wjv04 wrote:
Acey wrote:
Incompetence and shorthandedness of WestJet ground crew at YYC has a significant impact on their OTP. For example, Sunday's WS80 to NRT took a 45 minute on delay due to the pushback driver snapping the towbar off on the airplane. With flights ramping up this summer to their highest ever, these issues will get worse before they get better.

I don't disagree, but to be fair, ATS's performance has improved a fair bit since last summer. However this is the decision WJA/Onex have made. Its their bed and they can lie in it. Not a single employee supported the shutdown of TAC. Not that TAC wasn't capable of busting tow bars and bashing aircraft or equipment into aircraft either, but at least for the most part had the appearance of actually giving crap.

Oh absolutely. I just mean... would WS' OTP be 0.8% higher for April such that they would be ahead of Flair with TAC still in place? Probably.

wjv04 · Wed May 10, 2023 2:53 am

Acey wrote:
Oh absolutely. I just mean... would WS' OTP be 0.8% higher for April such that they would be ahead of Flair with TAC still in place? Probably.

I would go with probably.

But we also don't know what TAC staffing/performance would have been post pandemic either. Obviously even with APPR this is a more cost effective way of doing business at your primary hub.

CrewBunk · Wed May 10, 2023 3:26 am

jimbo737 wrote:
It’s l/f AND yield that’s important.

Yield, not shown, would be very interesting.

90% L/F is not surprising. Flair has just lost 20% of its fleet and had to do a lot of consolidation. Also, don’t forget, at the same time they were having a $19 sale. In my opinion, to generate quick cash.

My neighbours took advantage of that sale and flew to Vancouver for the weekend, from Toronto. Out Friday, home Sunday. No checked baggage, one carryon, and their fare was less than $250, r/t, for two, taxes and fees in!

Exrampieyyz · Wed May 10, 2023 4:26 am

I love flying for flying sake. ( Hopefully get a window and usually do). Will go on non rev trips just to get new aircraft types or routes. Living near YKF, checked out Flair's fares and flew pos YKF-YHZ-YKF. Cost was $122 rtn picking my seat.

Was cheaper than a non rev ticket out of YYZ. Also had an hour less driving to airport (2 rtn), and parking was $11 compared to $25 at park&fly.

Fares where $29 each way and $17 to pick a seat. Rest taxes. YYZ AIF fees are a killer. I'm mid way between YYZ and YXU and it's cheaper for me to fly out of YXU with the connection.

This was bought 2 days before the trip back in April. Flights was 80 to 90% full. Just checked some flights the other day and again $29 fares available a couple days before departure.

Can't be making much money with these fares!!

Acey · Wed May 10, 2023 5:02 am

Who cares about revenue when you can boast about being less than a percentage point ahead of the competition despite giving away seats.

Juju2004 · Thu May 11, 2023 5:45 pm

YYZ/YKF/YOW-PUJ loaded from November/December
2x weekly from YOW and YKF, daily from YYZ.

Dominion301 · Thu May 11, 2023 8:11 pm

Juju2004 wrote:
YYZ/YKF/YOW-PUJ loaded from November/December
2x weekly from YOW and YKF, daily from YYZ.

Finally starting to figure out seasonality as an airline and where they can realistically fill +170 seats/flight consistently in winter.

cirrusdragoon · Thu May 11, 2023 8:49 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
Juju2004 wrote:
YYZ/YKF/YOW-PUJ loaded from November/December
2x weekly from YOW and YKF, daily from YYZ.

Finally starting to figure out seasonality as an airline and where they can realistically fill +170 seats/flight consistently in winter.

Good job Flair Airlines, wishing them all the best with this.

Juju2004 · Tue May 16, 2023 12:05 pm

Apparently they're establishing some sort of frequent flyer program soon called the Flair flyers club.

JakeLRS · Tue May 16, 2023 5:19 pm

Flair has inflated ticket prices ahead of this weekends potential strike with Westjet/Swoop. Mostly selling only top dollar fare prices on a majority of routes.

Only cheap fares are the two flights they added on Friday which are selling for middle range fare prices

Juju2004 · Wed May 17, 2023 5:13 pm

They didn't really inflate the prices, they're just almost sold out on most of them.

Acey · Wed May 17, 2023 5:23 pm

Flair's domestic LF is very high. A lot of fares would have been sold out for May Long well before it became clear a strike was imminent.

yhu · Wed May 17, 2023 5:32 pm

JakeLRS wrote:
Flair has inflated ticket prices ahead of this weekends potential strike with Westjet/Swoop. Mostly selling only top dollar fare prices on a majority of routes.

Only cheap fares are the two flights they added on Friday which are selling for middle range fare prices

Last minute fares are always higher, especially on a long holiday weekend. The last handful of seats on a flight are never at a lower price point. This is airlines 101.

CrewBunk · Wed May 17, 2023 6:05 pm

Acey wrote:
Flair's domestic LF is very high. A lot of fares would have been sold out for May Long well before it became clear a strike was imminent.

Yes, those $59 deals coming back to haunt them.

MrWonderful · Wed May 17, 2023 7:26 pm

I’m not sure whether I missed a release from Flair or my browser is acting up, but looking at YYC-YXE on Flair’s booking page, flights seem to no longer be bookable after May 30. Anyone heard anything about this? I’m surprised (well maybe not really) they abandoned the route so soon.

JakeLRS · Thu May 18, 2023 4:33 pm

MrWonderful wrote:
I’m not sure whether I missed a release from Flair or my browser is acting up, but looking at YYC-YXE on Flair’s booking page, flights seem to no longer be bookable after May 30. Anyone heard anything about this? I’m surprised (well maybe not really) they abandoned the route so soon.

I can't really imagine this route doing all that well.

With WS/AC, there were lots of connection options, but with flair that doesn't exist and I think that played a pretty big role in the route not doing too good for them.

AirbusA322 · Mon May 22, 2023 1:17 am

How many aircraft does 777 actually have on order?

The Seattle Times reported the last big order never actually eventuated, relations with Boeing have collapsed.

Doing some digging, it looks like they have 3 orders left plus the one from Bonza which got transferred to Canada.

Acey · Mon May 22, 2023 2:40 am

JakeLRS wrote:
MrWonderful wrote:
I’m not sure whether I missed a release from Flair or my browser is acting up, but looking at YYC-YXE on Flair’s booking page, flights seem to no longer be bookable after May 30. Anyone heard anything about this? I’m surprised (well maybe not really) they abandoned the route so soon.

I can't really imagine this route doing all that well.

With WS/AC, there were lots of connection options, but with flair that doesn't exist and I think that played a pretty big role in the route not doing too good for them.

They launched it to look like the saviour after the province of Saskatchewan felt betrayed by AC leaving, it performed poorly as expected, so they're quietly bailing to instead fill the plane with $59 fares on YYC-YXX.

AlbertaLights · Thu Jun 01, 2023 5:11 pm

The article suggests increased demand for Flair going forward and that they saw a significant increase in revenue during the Westjet uncertainty. Two more aircraft coming by the end of the summer. According to the CEO, the seizure of four of their planes "is in the rear view mirror".
https://www.thestar.com/business/2023/06/01/discount-airline-flair-reports-spike-in-seats-sold-amid-uncertainty-during-westjet-pilot-turbulence.html?utm_source=newsshowcase&utm_medium=discover&utm_campaign=CCwQnZzJnOfD7V4YwpiPyeae2P6tASooCDAQnYXR3uP-qOivARi3rc_-lLHYhZMBKg4IACoGCAow6bV4MPfJDA&utm_content=related

cirrusdragoon · Thu Jun 01, 2023 5:50 pm

AlbertaLights wrote:
The article suggests increased demand for Flair going forward and that they saw a significant increase in revenue during the Westjet uncertainty. Two more aircraft coming by the end of the summer. According to the CEO, the seizure of four of their planes "is in the rear view mirror".
https://www.thestar.com/business/2023/06/01/discount-airline-flair-reports-spike-in-seats-sold-amid-uncertainty-during-westjet-pilot-turbulence.html?utm_source=newsshowcase&utm_medium=discover&utm_campaign=CCwQnZzJnOfD7V4YwpiPyeae2P6tASooCDAQnYXR3uP-qOivARi3rc_-lLHYhZMBKg4IACoGCAow6bV4MPfJDA&utm_content=related

A nice commentary piece from Sean Jones. Interesting part, Prentice did not mention that F8 is also unionized. So there is that.

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