YYCFlier wrote:

Let’s stop feeding the troll.

John Wellington’s solution for WestJet, like many other detractors, is “copy Air Canada’s strategy and pray”, despite Air Canada’s huge advantage in fleet, slots, brand recognition, Aeroplan and alliances.

I’m absolutely certain that will fail.

Add them to your foe list and be done with it. Life is better when you don’t even regard them.

ET1EDM wrote:

Ah the YYC HUB having a bad day. Why would WS separate baggage (dog kennels are) and send to YYC instead of YEG?. Is this part of the new WS Universal HUB passenger, pet experience? https://globalnews.ca/news/9406992/west ... g-airport/

Read the article, they went to YYC because of a diversion due to weather….

IceCream wrote:

lesfalls wrote:

IceCream wrote:

What makes you think these changes are unprofitable? Or do you think the new CEO wants to mess things up and remove supposedly profitable and successful flights that must be printing money for no reason?

It's also a bit hyperbolic when people say that everything is moving to YYC as if they're shutting down YYZ completely They're still keeping YYZ-Sun destinations/US/Western Canada/mainline flights to YOW/YUL/YHZ/YYT. And to the US and Sun destinations and to the west WS still has a very sizeable presence out of YYZ. Almost every cut is Q400 regional flights and TATL flights.

Just covering inner disputes that answer why this sudden change.

One thing I will say is that there are a lot of complaints with the WS soft product-like getting rid of meals in premium class on certain routes and replacing them with a box of processed snacks for one. Those sort of changes, to me at least, seem like they'd have a pretty significant impact on their company brand and reputation for premium class travelers, considering how marginal the cost savings probably are in the long run. But I don't work for WS so it's not like I can completely criticize their decisions without knowing what's going on behind the scenes.

I know what you're getting at with the meals and it's a bit sketchy that's for sure. They are doing small changes to onboard products that make you question why... Like taking out cream and putting in fairlife milk only or like you said, replacing a hot meal for a small snack box. Sucks if you want cream in your tea or coffee or are hungry. Small things that certainly are noticed.

I feel for the inflight crew onboard that have to deal with an inconsistent product.

ac190 wrote:

IceCream wrote:

lesfalls wrote:

Just covering inner disputes that answer why this sudden change.

One thing I will say is that there are a lot of complaints with the WS soft product-like getting rid of meals in premium class on certain routes and replacing them with a box of processed snacks for one. Those sort of changes, to me at least, seem like they'd have a pretty significant impact on their company brand and reputation for premium class travelers, considering how marginal the cost savings probably are in the long run. But I don't work for WS so it's not like I can completely criticize their decisions without knowing what's going on behind the scenes.

I know what you're getting at with the meals and it's a bit sketchy that's for sure. They are doing small changes to onboard products that make you question why... Like taking out cream and putting in fairlife milk only or like you said, replacing a hot meal for a small snack box. Sucks if you want cream in your tea or coffee or are hungry. Small things that certainly are noticed.

I feel for the inflight crew onboard that have to deal with an inconsistent product.

Yeah, when you look at the more in-depth conversations at Flyertalk it is definitely concerning, especially when the fares are often the same, sometimes even more than AC's, yet WS skimps out on very noticeable things. I think WS' main issues are their operational challenges next summer and some of their soft product changes. Those are much, much more concerning than anything to do with their route planning, or their YYC strategy.

But of course, I have no idea what's going on behind the scenes, but these issues do seem manageable.

ET1EDM wrote:

Ah the YYC HUB having a bad day. Why would WS separate baggage (dog kennels are) and send to YYC instead of YEG?. Is this part of the new WS Universal HUB passenger, pet experience? https://globalnews.ca/news/9406992/west ... g-airport/

You're right. Westjet is an awful, terrible airline that's doomed for failure no matter what. They might as well pack it up and call it a day. For any chance of success, they need to pivot to a YEG global hub and order 80 A380's to compete with EK. YYC should be demolished and instead, a train station should be built to YEG from Calgary

IceCream wrote:

ET1EDM wrote:

Ah the YYC HUB having a bad day. Why would WS separate baggage (dog kennels are) and send to YYC instead of YEG?. Is this part of the new WS Universal HUB passenger, pet experience? https://globalnews.ca/news/9406992/west ... g-airport/

You're right. Westjet is an awful, terrible airline that's doomed for failure no matter what. They might as well pack it up and call it a day. For any chance of success, they need to pivot to a YEG global hub and order 80 A380's to compete with EK. YYC should be demolished and instead, a train station should be built to YEG from Calgary

I vote for Monorail

It might actually put Edmonton on the map (but probably not though).

This is highly cringey stuff, not sure if the Calgary posters realize how petty/insecure this makes them look...

When will WestJet release its summer narrowbody schedule?

ET1EDM wrote:

YYC a global HUB is an illusion that the Calgary boosters never stop trying to convince the planet is hilarious! YYC will never be a global HUB - just a WS Hub in a sliver of North America located in a city that is running 35% empty towers gutted through the pandemic and demise of dirty tar sand oil. Some people shilling constantly talk about YYC and WS when the sun has set on the airline and city

YEGFlyer wrote:

This is highly cringey stuff, not sure if the Calgary posters realize how petty/insecure this makes them look...

The cringe and petty insecurity goes both ways.

I can't imagine its too far out or it likely starts effecting summer bookings sooner then later.

wjv04 wrote:

ET1EDM wrote:

YYC a global HUB is an illusion that the Calgary boosters never stop trying to convince the planet is hilarious! YYC will never be a global HUB - just a WS Hub in a sliver of North America located in a city that is running 35% empty towers gutted through the pandemic and demise of dirty tar sand oil. Some people shilling constantly talk about YYC and WS when the sun has set on the airline and city

YEGFlyer wrote:

This is highly cringey stuff, not sure if the Calgary posters realize how petty/insecure this makes them look...

The cringe and petty insecurity goes both ways.

I can't imagine its too far out or it likely starts effecting summer bookings sooner then later.

For S22 they released the schedule quite late (mid-March) but that was right after the Omicron wave. Historically they tend to do it on the last Monday of January. They've already made some additions from late February to April right before and after the new year so I imagine they'll release the summer sched this month.

As for others talking about cringe or insecurity I think WS definitely has problems it needs to tackle, but those problems are not their hubbing or route strategies.

What’s with all the angst about releasing summer domestic scheds?

As long as they are out by mid March, they’ll be fine.

In my humble opinion Westjet's real problem is reversing the financial mess that Onex has found themselves in after their purchase of the airline. Their timing couldn't have been much worse (just before covid). I wonder what would have happened had Westjet remained a public company?

Skywatcher wrote:

In my humble opinion Westjet's real problem is reversing the financial mess that Onex has found themselves in after their purchase of the airline. Their timing couldn't have been much worse (just before covid). I wonder what would have happened had Westjet remained a public company?

Precisely, I think had the pandemic not happened, Onex and WS would have continued with their ambitious international expansion plans. If WS had remained a publicly traded company when pandemic hit, it probably would have taken on government loans without a doubt and the company would have been in a much more serious state.

Now it is a matter of bringing it back to profitability to Onex’s liking, to be profitable enough to IPO it to the market someday.

cirrusdragoon wrote:

Skywatcher wrote:

In my humble opinion Westjet's real problem is reversing the financial mess that Onex has found themselves in after their purchase of the airline. Their timing couldn't have been much worse (just before covid). I wonder what would have happened had Westjet remained a public company?

Precisely, I think had the pandemic not happened, Onex and WS would have continued with their ambitious international expansion plans. If WS had remained a publicly traded company when pandemic hit, it probably would have taken on government loans without a doubt and the company would have been in a much more serious state.

Yeah, as much a Onex probably regrets the timing of their decision it was a great thing for WS itself. I have no doubt that Onex is probably pressuring WS to start turning a profit but at least there wasn't/isn't a grave threat of bankruptcy or a question about survival.

IceCream wrote:

cirrusdragoon wrote:

Skywatcher wrote:

In my humble opinion Westjet's real problem is reversing the financial mess that Onex has found themselves in after their purchase of the airline. Their timing couldn't have been much worse (just before covid). I wonder what would have happened had Westjet remained a public company?

Precisely, I think had the pandemic not happened, Onex and WS would have continued with their ambitious international expansion plans. If WS had remained a publicly traded company when pandemic hit, it probably would have taken on government loans without a doubt and the company would have been in a much more serious state.

Yeah, as much a Onex probably regrets the timing of their decision it was a great thing for WS itself. I have no doubt that Onex is probably pressuring WS to start turning a profit but at least there wasn't/isn't a grave threat of bankruptcy or a question about survival.

Absolutely. The reason the board of directors sold to Onex was to help Westjet facilitate long term planning. Number two, to have luxury of being able to plan in private, not being accountable to quarterly sell-side analysts. They were in the midst of transforming into a full service airline.

ac190 wrote:

IceCream wrote:

lesfalls wrote:

Just covering inner disputes that answer why this sudden change.

One thing I will say is that there are a lot of complaints with the WS soft product-like getting rid of meals in premium class on certain routes and replacing them with a box of processed snacks for one. Those sort of changes, to me at least, seem like they'd have a pretty significant impact on their company brand and reputation for premium class travelers, considering how marginal the cost savings probably are in the long run. But I don't work for WS so it's not like I can completely criticize their decisions without knowing what's going on behind the scenes.

I know what you're getting at with the meals and it's a bit sketchy that's for sure. They are doing small changes to onboard products that make you question why... Like taking out cream and putting in fairlife milk only or like you said, replacing a hot meal for a small snack box. Sucks if you want cream in your tea or coffee or are hungry. Small things that certainly are noticed.

I feel for the inflight crew onboard that have to deal with an inconsistent product.

I can understand the pivot and the new YYC strategy, but I believe this is the part that Alexis/WS Management is highly overlooking. The inconsistencies across the fleet, the experience (soft and hard product) is becoming laughable at best. Aside from the 12 seats in the first three rows of the plane, and a little bit more leg room in the back, there is no difference between a mainline 737 and a Swoop 737 experience. Aside from the fact you get a free drink and a snack that is no longer Biscoff cookies (very heartbroken about Biscoffs being gone...but thats beside the point). The low cost market is saturated beyond belief with new carriers. While it worked for WS back when they were the only one, they do need to pivot in some ways to adapt to what is current. Going back to what they did before may look good on paper, but I believe it misses reality. Look at Porter. They realized they have to adapt or fade into the light, and they are making strong investments to pivot with their new strategy. WS needs to do the same. You don't need to go crazy and re-invent the wheel, but give people a consistent product along with a few differences to make the cabin stand out against there ULCC younger brother. I've noticed they're changing the seats on all new deliveries to match the seats on the 787 in Y class. A quick suggestion to do this would to simply keep the seatback TVs on these seats and bring those back to the 737. It's not much, but it's something travellers enjoy and it makes the cabin have a more mainline feel. Plus, it'll then keep some of the experience streamlined with the widebody operation. Just a thought.

whywhycee wrote:

Aside from the fact you get a free drink and a snack that is no longer Biscoff cookies (very heartbroken about Biscoffs being gone...but thats beside the point).

My friend, the Biscoff cookies being gone is not beside the point, it is the point. I'll take a crate of those over a steak dinner.

My heart too is shattered.

Does anyone know what form of direct and indirect financial assistance that the Government of Alberts is providing ONEX a owned WS?
https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/news/2022 ... -governmen

What do you mean what "form"? Like how much money?

It's probably fair to assume it's similar to the form of direct and indirect financial assistance Air Canada got from the federal government.

I have been keeping an eye on the Encore ops at YYZ -- I see that YXU-YYZ is gone -- any insight on when this occurred? Last time I looked it was still operating -- any idea when it was zeroed out (it appears to have already ended, so presumably relatively short notice).

Acey wrote:

What do you mean what "form"? Like how much money?

It's probably fair to assume it's similar to the form of direct and indirect financial assistance Air Canada got from the federal government.

So Ontario owned and based ONEX takes Alberta tax payer money from the Government of Alberta for support one of its asset WS to beef up its Calgary operations. Ok let’s expect this is transparent and we see this stated by UCP Government in the Provinces financials. Air Canada and Government of Canada will be disclosing the handout AC received.

ET1EDM wrote:

Acey wrote:

What do you mean what "form"? Like how much money?

It's probably fair to assume it's similar to the form of direct and indirect financial assistance Air Canada got from the federal government.

So Ontario owned and based ONEX takes Alberta tax payer money from the Government of Alberta for support one of its asset WS to beef up its Calgary operations. Ok let’s expect this is transparent and we see this stated by UCP Government in the Provinces financials. Air Canada and Government of Canada will be disclosing the handout AC received.

Is your concern that WestJet is receiving government money, or that they're owned by ONEX? Given that AC is also receiving money, is there a dollar figure that you'd be okay with WS receiving keeping in mind that AC is overall a much larger entity?

I'm not quite sure what you're mad about.

shoelessjoe wrote:

I have been keeping an eye on the Encore ops at YYZ -- I see that YXU-YYZ is gone -- any insight on when this occurred? Last time I looked it was still operating -- any idea when it was zeroed out (it appears to have already ended, so presumably relatively short notice).

It ended a few days ago.

IceCream wrote:

shoelessjoe wrote:

I have been keeping an eye on the Encore ops at YYZ -- I see that YXU-YYZ is gone -- any insight on when this occurred? Last time I looked it was still operating -- any idea when it was zeroed out (it appears to have already ended, so presumably relatively short notice).

It ended a few days ago.

Sad day. Milestone sad day. If they can't make YXU YYZ work, Encore ops have no hope at YYZ. That route was designed for a Q400.

Numerous posters have insinuated that Encore's Eastern presence will be disappearing. I know pretty much all of their Atlantic Canada flying is being eliminated - but I had not seen anything official about Encore YYZ ops. FWIW - there may be limited upside amongst the gloom. Routes like YYZ YFC or YYZ YQM were never designed for a Q. I thought YYZ YQB was an improvement as it allowed them to offer improvements on the traditional WestJet service to that market, which traditionally was the late flight in and an early flight out. Other routes like YYZ YYG/YQR/YXE might get additional frequencies if a better-sized airplane was available. And finally, we might see growth in the WestJet world, were such an aircraft added to the fleet.

If anything, it highlights the need for a true 100 seat jet for WS -something that can do 1000-1200 nm, with some degree of comfort. The CRJ 1000 is the past. The E195 is probably the most logical fit but doesn't seem to be selling so well. They missed the boat on some superb deals on the A220 (unlike AC or DL). Thoughts?

WS7M8 wrote:

If anything, it highlights the need for a true 100 seat jet for WS -something that can do 1000-1200 nm, with some degree of comfort. The CRJ 1000 is the past. The E195 is probably the most logical fit but doesn't seem to be selling so well. They missed the boat on some superb deals on the A220 (unlike AC or DL). Thoughts?

You cite a 100 seater, but then select the too big E195-E2, when Embraer offers the E190-E2 which would be a 96-seater at 12J/84Y. If you're WS, you'd never take an E195-E2 and its dogwater range and would instead take 7M7 for fleet commonality.

We've talked a lot about WS' utility for a regional jet at YYC, and you're right... it certainly could have been an aircraft that bailed out the YYZ operation to some degree.

Speaking of 7M7 is WS taking any or did they convert everything to 7M8 and 7MX?

YYCFlier wrote:

Speaking of 7M7 is WS taking any or did they convert everything to 7M8 and 7MX?

As they are no longer public, we can't be sure of the exact breakdown. 7M7 just took another delay, so that's another variable.

To me it seems like there would be great use for 7M7... long/thin stuff, short field, great range... but who knows what WS is thinking.

Acey wrote:

YYCFlier wrote:

Speaking of 7M7 is WS taking any or did they convert everything to 7M8 and 7MX?

As they are no longer public, we can't be sure of the exact breakdown. 7M7 just took another delay, so that's another variable.

To me it seems like there would be great use for 7M7... long/thin stuff, short field, great range... but who knows what WS is thinking.

We know the FAA granted Boeing some exemption so they could continue on with the 7M7 being common with the MAX 8. Do we know if Transport Canada or the Europeans are also going along with this?

What WS needs is the A220 (aka C-series) to cover off the lower end of their requirements. However it is unlikely they are willing to go there.

Acey wrote:

WS7M8 wrote:

If anything, it highlights the need for a true 100 seat jet for WS -something that can do 1000-1200 nm, with some degree of comfort. The CRJ 1000 is the past. The E195 is probably the most logical fit but doesn't seem to be selling so well. They missed the boat on some superb deals on the A220 (unlike AC or DL). Thoughts?

You cite a 100 seater, but then select the too big E195-E2, when Embraer offers the E190-E2 which would be a 96-seater at 12J/84Y. If you're WS, you'd never take an E195-E2 and its dogwater range and would instead take 7M7 for fleet commonality.

We've talked a lot about WS' utility for a regional jet at YYC, and you're right... it certainly could have been an aircraft that bailed out the YYZ operation to some degree.

As much as the 7M7 would be great for commonality....I wonder if it is just a bit too much airplane to be in the 100 seat arena.

WestJet tried to use their -600s as essentially 100 - seaters; I want to say they had 113 seats +/- and at least one made it to the updated configuration before the fleet was retired. That didn't work...likely because shrinks or even going smaller doesn't work too well with airplanes. I'd rather have the Max-8 and its 174 seats for a slightly greater operating cost vs a 7M7, which I suspect would have ~132 seats, same as a WS -700. And then we're back to that true 100 seater dilemma...

You got to think that someone has a solution for them. They've just been a bit too conversative to entire the legit 100 seat market, which has cost them. Look at the great deals Air Canada and Delta got on the A220s, 5-6 years ago.....

The 600s worked at the time they were acquired. You have to look at what was available when they placed the order. They only look bad now because the A220 exists. It didn't in 2005.

WS7M8 wrote:

Acey wrote:

WS7M8 wrote:

If anything, it highlights the need for a true 100 seat jet for WS -something that can do 1000-1200 nm, with some degree of comfort. The CRJ 1000 is the past. The E195 is probably the most logical fit but doesn't seem to be selling so well. They missed the boat on some superb deals on the A220 (unlike AC or DL). Thoughts?

You cite a 100 seater, but then select the too big E195-E2, when Embraer offers the E190-E2 which would be a 96-seater at 12J/84Y. If you're WS, you'd never take an E195-E2 and its dogwater range and would instead take 7M7 for fleet commonality.

We've talked a lot about WS' utility for a regional jet at YYC, and you're right... it certainly could have been an aircraft that bailed out the YYZ operation to some degree.

As much as the 7M7 would be great for commonality....I wonder if it is just a bit too much airplane to be in the 100 seat arena.

WestJet tried to use their -600s as essentially 100 - seaters; I want to say they had 113 seats +/- and at least one made it to the updated configuration before the fleet was retired. That didn't work...likely because shrinks or even going smaller doesn't work too well with airplanes. I'd rather have the Max-8 and its 174 seats for a slightly greater operating cost vs a 7M7, which I suspect would have ~132 seats, same as a WS -700. And then we're back to that true 100 seater dilemma...

You got to think that someone has a solution for them. They've just been a bit too conversative to entire the legit 100 seat market, which has cost them. Look at the great deals Air Canada and Delta got on the A220s, 5-6 years ago.....

There isn't a great 100 seat aircraft out there from my standpoint - you said it, going smaller within a variant doesn't generally work well - the trip cost of the A220-300 is just not that much more than the A220-100, so it generally makes more sense to take the additional seats. An RJ would make sense for the longer routes, but then you still have a big gap in seats between an RJ and MAX 8.

The 7M7 probably makes the most sense from a commonality perspective and at least provides a bridge between the two seat counts (be it an RJ or the Q400), but the same argument will rear it's head, how many routes are there that you'd want the lower trip cost vs. the extra seats on a MAX 8, and is it worth the extra type.

Acey wrote:

whywhycee wrote:

Aside from the fact you get a free drink and a snack that is no longer Biscoff cookies (very heartbroken about Biscoffs being gone...but thats beside the point).

My friend, the Biscoff cookies being gone is not beside the point, it is the point. I'll take a crate of those over a steak dinner.

My heart too is shattered.

I must echo the Biscoff sadness. I went and bought a big box of them at Costco not long after the flight I found out they were gone.

I love the chocolate Celebration cookies they have now, chocolate supercedes cinnamon cookie for me.

Just flew again WestJet Yyc-YVR, yYR-PVR. WestJet, had you given up on your soft product because is now just silly.

1. YYC-YVR. One single FA wanders around offering water from cups in her hand. That’s a 1 hour flight folks. Meals with a choice of entrees at breakfast, full bar service with refills headsets, magazines, newspapers, pillows and blankets we perfectly the daily norm.

2. YVR-PVR. No service announcements. No buy on board menus. Eventual the crews made there way saying buy on board but people had to stop and ask them what they sell. It slowed everything down A LOT. By the time it got to me, I was too irritated to want to participate. I asked for a club soda for my drink (1:45 hours in) and was given a half full glass of club soda, no ice, no lemon. These are basics a flight attendant should know about pouring drinks. If that was the extent of the service I rate it 0.5/5.0.

Since this aircraft is the Dreamliner, it had video screens like unlike narrow bodies. Air Canada has video across the fleet. Having just returned from a trip on air canada where I saw their system up close, Westjet’s was nothing more that a sad imitation — trying want to show some sophistication but just fails.

I know cost cutting has gone on but do you really think a glass of water delivered by 1 FA holding a plastic bottle and a sleeve of plastic cups in the other is represented as an inflight product on a fully one hour flight without and complicating weather. Where were the other two FAs during this? On their phones? Where were any service related announcements? Most importantly WHERE IS THE CUSTOMER SERVICE?” …..it’s downright BAD

WestJet, you are in an exetensial crisis. Your low cost product product is now nothing more than humourous. I’m actually embarrassed for you.

So time for me to dust off these aeroplan points, the aeroplan web retailers page that gives points for shopping on things like Amazon and then you get extra aeroplan points. I’m going back to air canada where they’re still apparently try to give the bare minimum of an inflight customer experience. Last time I flew on them the inflight product and service were exactly up to the challenge.

idjim319 wrote:

Just flew again WestJet Yyc-YVR, yYR-PVR. WestJet, had you given up on your soft product because is now just silly.


2. YVR-PVR. No service announcements. No buy on board menus. Eventual the crews made there way saying buy on board but people had to stop and ask them what they sell. It slowed everything down A LOT. By the time it got to me, I was too irritated to want to participate. I asked for a club soda for my drink (1:45 hours in) and was given a half full glass of club soda, no ice, no lemon. These are basics a flight attendant should know about pouring drinks. If that was the extent of the service I rate it 0.5/5.0.

FYI AC hasn't had lemons/limes in Y for quite a while either, if someone asks for, I will go try and acquire a peice (especially for a G+T), but yeah not part of our Y class service anymore.

DH8PU wrote:

idjim319 wrote:

Just flew again WestJet Yyc-YVR, yYR-PVR. WestJet, had you given up on your soft product because is now just silly.


2. YVR-PVR. No service announcements. No buy on board menus. Eventual the crews made there way saying buy on board but people had to stop and ask them what they sell. It slowed everything down A LOT. By the time it got to me, I was too irritated to want to participate. I asked for a club soda for my drink (1:45 hours in) and was given a half full glass of club soda, no ice, no lemon. These are basics a flight attendant should know about pouring drinks. If that was the extent of the service I rate it 0.5/5.0.

FYI AC hasn't had lemons/limes in Y for quite a while either, if someone asks for, I will go try and acquire a peice (especially for a G+T), but yeah not part of our Y class service anymore.

Lemons are definitely boarded on every AC aircraft, whether for J or Y passengers.

idjim319 wrote:

Just flew again WestJet Yyc-YVR, yYR-PVR. WestJet, had you given up on your soft product because is now just silly.

1. YYC-YVR. One single FA wanders around offering water from cups in her hand. That’s a 1 hour flight folks. Meals with a choice of entrees at breakfast, full bar service with refills headsets, magazines, newspapers, pillows and blankets we perfectly the daily norm.

2. YVR-PVR. No service announcements. No buy on board menus. Eventual the crews made there way saying buy on board but people had to stop and ask them what they sell. It slowed everything down A LOT. By the time it got to me, I was too irritated to want to participate. I asked for a club soda for my drink (1:45 hours in) and was given a half full glass of club soda, no ice, no lemon. These are basics a flight attendant should know about pouring drinks. If that was the extent of the service I rate it 0.5/5.0.

Since this aircraft is the Dreamliner, it had video screens like unlike narrow bodies. Air Canada has video across the fleet. Having just returned from a trip on air canada where I saw their system up close, Westjet’s was nothing more that a sad imitation — trying want to show some sophistication but just fails.

I know cost cutting has gone on but do you really think a glass of water delivered by 1 FA holding a plastic bottle and a sleeve of plastic cups in the other is represented as an inflight product on a fully one hour flight without and complicating weather. Where were the other two FAs during this? On their phones? Where were any service related announcements? Most importantly WHERE IS THE CUSTOMER SERVICE?” …..it’s downright BAD

WestJet, you are in an exetensial crisis. Your low cost product product is now nothing more than humourous. I’m actually embarrassed for you.

So time for me to dust off these aeroplan points, the aeroplan web retailers page that gives points for shopping on things like Amazon and then you get extra aeroplan points. I’m going back to air canada where they’re still apparently try to give the bare minimum of an inflight customer experience. Last time I flew on them the inflight product and service were exactly up to the challenge.

If it was just a water service it was because there was forecasted or reports of turbulence, which is quite common on any routes crossing the rocks this time of year. Safety is #1!

As for service on the Dreamliner there are menus on the entertainment system, the system I find just as good as the AC system having flown both often.

YYCFlier wrote:

WS7M8 wrote:

At the end of the day, YYC is perhaps the 4th best connecting point within Canada, behind YYZ, YVR, and YUL.

What I think is interesting is that everyone tries to measure YYC with YYZ, YUL and YVR when its true peer airports are actually YOW and YEG.

If you look at general population centres in Canada, excluding geography, your tier 1 cities are YYZ, YUL and YVR. Tier 2 cities, which have similar populations, are YOW, YYC and YEG. Tier 3 cities would be YWG, YHM, and YQB.

Population isn't a relevant measure of airport size. Calgary had 18 million passengers in 2019, compared to 20 million at Montreal Trudeau (the next one up) 6.2 million in Edmonton (next one down). Ottawa has just 5.1 million, Winnipeg 4.5 million, Quebec City 1.8 million and Hamilton 955K. So yes, the correct comparison is with YYZ, YUL and YVR,

Of course population matters. How come it wasn't YQL that had 18 million pax? Among similarly sized North American metros, YYC does well. Period. You can make up your rules and deem it fair to compare it to cities twice as large, but I'm not sure what that accomplishes aside from proving that those cities are, in fact, twice as large.

No one said population doesn't matter. What he said is that there is no direct correlation between a city's population and an airport's passenger stats. There is no "one size fits all" linear equation. It's different for pretty much each city/airport, due to several factors, including location/isolation of city, catchment area, tourism, disposable income of population, airline hub at airport or not, other means of transportation in/out of city, etc

YYC has several factors that play in its favor in attracting a high number of passengers. Other airports, such as YOW, YEG or YQB, are hurt by those very same factors.

The point remains, in the aviation industry, YYC's peers are very much YYZ, YUL and YVR, and not YEG, YOW or YQB. In that regard, population has no bearing.

At the company I work for, YYZ, YVR, YUL and YYC are called the "4 majors" for a reason. We now have management dedicated exclusively to these 4 airports combined. There is a reason for that.

No one in the industry calls YYC and YQB peers. It's just silly. Aviation enthusiasts use population numbers to bitch and complain about their airport's lack of flights/passengers compared to a similar sized city. That's all.

My point was sort of the opposite. Why do we need "tiers" of airports with "peers" that exist in completely different markets with completely different circumstances like those which leads to the similar cities of Calgary and Edmonton having drastically different levels of air service?

Acey wrote:

My point was sort of the opposite. Why do we need "tiers" of airports with "peers" that exist in completely different markets with completely different circumstances like those which leads to the similar cities of Calgary and Edmonton having drastically different levels of air service?

For cooperation, sharing of knowledge, optimizing traffic flows, etc. all in order to better serve your customers.

The 4 majors are the only ones in the country that run commercial IFR traffic on parallel runways, and the only ones that handle over ~ 230,000 commercial movements and/or 15 million pax or more (these are pre-COVID numbers). These 4 airports combined also handle ~ 80% of all passenger traffic in the country. So yes, they are very much in a tier of their own. There are a lot of gains to be had in sharing expertise and knowledge at that level. Hence why my company siloed the management for these 4 airports combined.

Ex. If this past December was any indication, YVR could learn a thing or two about how YYZ/YUL or YYC deal with the snow/ice.

Another ex. When YYC got it’s parallel runway a number of years back, I believe they sought the input of the 3 other majors for how to run parallel operations.

Learning, comparing, sharing with your tier airports is a sound strategy.

I don't deny that angle. One might argue that in one specific aspect of the airfield operation YYC has become the national leader - RNP approaches. They do the most by far, started a decade ago when YYZ and YVR are only just now getting the ball rolling in any meaningful capacity, and do parallel RNP approaches all day. This is assisted by having less traffic volume than YYZ which actually makes it easier to sequence and facilitate fuel-saving RNP approach arcs.

In true YYC fashion, other aspects of the airfield are bizarrely in shambles.

https://globalnews.ca/news/9414755/sask ... mpetition/
Saskatoon business group accuses Air Canada, WestJet of unfair competition, asks for investigation

The Saskatoon Greater Chamber of Commerce has asked a national watchdog to investigate if Air Canada and WestJet colluded to divide flight routes, stating softened competition between the two airlines is unfair to Saskatchewan’s travelling public and business groups.


“Even if the conduct falls short of being an “agreement” between the airlines,” a press release states, “it amounts to an abuse of dominance by Air Canada and WestJet where the airlines have engaged in conduct intended to harm competition, thereby improving their respective positions in the market.”

The chamber is asking the Competition Bureau Canada to examine Air Canada’s cancellation of direct flights from Saskatoon and Regina to Calgary.

Due to required confidentiality, the bureau did not confirm whether it will be investigating this matter.

“If the behaviour of these two airlines has basically given each one an anti-competitive monopoly on its routes, the federal regulators should look into it,” said chamber CEO Jason Aebig.

Is F8 not launching YYC-YXE for like a toonie each way? What are they mad about? Interesting to assume that AC and WS are colluding against Saskatchewan as opposed to a continuation of what has been a systematic exit from YYC by AC that, in this instance, has impacted far more markets than just YQR and YXE.

They also must have not noticed new mainline YXE-YVR service on the 220 that is clearly direct compensation.

Acey wrote:

Is F8 not launching YYC-YXE for like a toonie each way? What are they mad about? Interesting to assume that AC and WS are colluding against Saskatchewan as opposed to a continuation of what has been a systematic exit from YYC by AC that, in this instance, has impacted far more markets than just YQR and YXE.

They also must have not noticed new mainline YXE-YVR service on the 220 that is clearly direct compensation.

The ever present "victim card" being played. Funny from such a relatively business friendly provincial government.

Maybe if fares were higher there would be no pullbacks by AC?

Thenoflyzone wrote:

No one said population doesn't matter. What he said is that there is no direct correlation between a city's population and an airport's passenger stats. There is no "one size fits all" linear equation. It's different for pretty much each city/airport, due to several factors, including location/isolation of city, catchment area, tourism, disposable income of population, airline hub at airport or not, other means of transportation in/out of city, etc

YYC has several factors that play in its favor in attracting a high number of passengers. Other airports, such as YOW, YEG or YQB, are hurt by those very same factors.

The point remains, in the aviation industry, YYC's peers are very much YYZ, YUL and YVR, and not YEG, YOW or YQB. In that regard, population has no bearing.

At the company I work for, YYZ, YVR, YUL and YYC are called the "4 majors" for a reason. We now have management dedicated exclusively to these 4 airports combined. There is a reason for that.

No one in the industry calls YYC and YQB peers. It's just silly. Aviation enthusiasts use population numbers to bitch and complain about their airport's lack of flights/passengers compared to a similar sized city. That's all.

Absolutely. I have always viewed 'the big eight' in two tiers: 'the really big four' of YYZ, YUL, YVR & YYC and 'the big four' of YEG, YOW, YWG & YHZ. When you see Calgary and Halifax where they are in pax vs population numbers, you clearly see a metro's population is but one factor of the equation, otherwise YXU would have (pre-pandemic) been handling +4 million pax/year like YHZ.

YQB is in the tier with the likes of YTZ, YYT, YYJ & YLW.

Geography is primarily why YYC is where it is. It's in the middle of nowhere, yet perfectly situated geographically to be a hub.

YEG's a bit too far north to be the mega hub (and slightly smaller and redundant to YYC, just like CVG was to DTW post-NW/DL merger).

YOW doesn't even have YEG traffic levels thanks to being a) stuck between YYZ and especially YUL two hours east, but that in-turn gives it loads of train service (by North American standards / 3rd busiest train station in Canada) vs minimal in Edmonton and non-existent in Calgary.

Ottawa is within a day's drive of like 80 million people vs what maybe 6-8 million for Calgary. If anything, Ottawa should be (pre-pandemic) probably a good million pax per year closer to YEG than what it was. Maybe in 5 years time Porter will change that/narrow that gap.

Thomaas wrote:

DH8PU wrote:

idjim319 wrote:

Just flew again WestJet Yyc-YVR, yYR-PVR. WestJet, had you given up on your soft product because is now just silly.


2. YVR-PVR. No service announcements. No buy on board menus. Eventual the crews made there way saying buy on board but people had to stop and ask them what they sell. It slowed everything down A LOT. By the time it got to me, I was too irritated to want to participate. I asked for a club soda for my drink (1:45 hours in) and was given a half full glass of club soda, no ice, no lemon. These are basics a flight attendant should know about pouring drinks. If that was the extent of the service I rate it 0.5/5.0.

FYI AC hasn't had lemons/limes in Y for quite a while either, if someone asks for, I will go try and acquire a peice (especially for a G+T), but yeah not part of our Y class service anymore.

Lemons are definitely boarded on every AC aircraft, whether for J or Y passengers.

I'm an FA for QK, I haven't seen lemons in Y for 5 plus years

idjim319 wrote:

Just flew again WestJet Yyc-YVR, yYR-PVR. WestJet, had you given up on your soft product because is now just silly.

1. YYC-YVR. One single FA wanders around offering water from cups in her hand. That’s a 1 hour flight folks. Meals with a choice of entrees at breakfast, full bar service with refills headsets, magazines, newspapers, pillows and blankets we perfectly the daily norm.

2. YVR-PVR. No service announcements. No buy on board menus. Eventual the crews made there way saying buy on board but people had to stop and ask them what they sell. It slowed everything down A LOT. By the time it got to me, I was too irritated to want to participate. I asked for a club soda for my drink (1:45 hours in) and was given a half full glass of club soda, no ice, no lemon. These are basics a flight attendant should know about pouring drinks. If that was the extent of the service I rate it 0.5/5.0.

Since this aircraft is the Dreamliner, it had video screens like unlike narrow bodies. Air Canada has video across the fleet. Having just returned from a trip on air canada where I saw their system up close, Westjet’s was nothing more that a sad imitation — trying want to show some sophistication but just fails.

I know cost cutting has gone on but do you really think a glass of water delivered by 1 FA holding a plastic bottle and a sleeve of plastic cups in the other is represented as an inflight product on a fully one hour flight without and complicating weather. Where were the other two FAs during this? On their phones? Where were any service related announcements? Most importantly WHERE IS THE CUSTOMER SERVICE?” …..it’s downright BAD

WestJet, you are in an exetensial crisis. Your low cost product product is now nothing more than humourous. I’m actually embarrassed for you.

So time for me to dust off these aeroplan points, the aeroplan web retailers page that gives points for shopping on things like Amazon and then you get extra aeroplan points. I’m going back to air canada where they’re still apparently try to give the bare minimum of an inflight customer experience. Last time I flew on them the inflight product and service were exactly up to the challenge.

1. Service was most likely downgraded due to forecasted turbulence. YYC YVR service for WestJet it full bar + non perishable snacks in Y. Complimentary bar + snacks are offered in W.

2. Service announcement might have been missed in Y that day as it is cabin specific and not completed by the cabin manager. Menus are loaded in the in-seat video monitor for YVR PVR on the 787. Full bar + BOB is completed in sequence just like at any other airline. Westjet does not load lime or lemon, however “TrueLime or TrueLemon” is always available upon request.

Very sad to see you let your ignorance rate WestJet’s service 0.5/5. They are pretty on par with AC (except that they do not have fresh BOB). Westjet streaming system on the 737/787 is also pretty solid, that’s on top of the video monitor at every seats on the 787.

YYCFlier wrote:

Let’s stop feeding the troll.

John Wellington’s solution for WestJet, like many other detractors, is “copy Air Canada’s strategy and pray”, despite Air Canada’s huge advantage in fleet, slots, brand recognition, Aeroplan and alliances.

I’m absolutely certain that will fail.

This has been WS strategy for over a decade, after years of being told that they're a "full service airline", we are now being informed that indeed WS is a regional Airline that plans to retreat back to YYC.
Clearly whatever WS was doing wasn't working, and I don't expect them to do much better in YYC where the ULCCs are gaining a major hold.
BTW being the smaller airline doesn't necessarily play into a disadvantage vs the larger carrier, thats a narrative you're telling yourself.

JohnWellington wrote:

YYCFlier wrote:

Let’s stop feeding the troll.

John Wellington’s solution for WestJet, like many other detractors, is “copy Air Canada’s strategy and pray”, despite Air Canada’s huge advantage in fleet, slots, brand recognition, Aeroplan and alliances.

I’m absolutely certain that will fail.

This has been WS strategy for over a decade, after years of being told that they're a "full service airline", we are now being informed that indeed WS is a regional Airline that plans to retreat back to YYC.
Clearly whatever WS was doing wasn't working, and I don't expect them to do much better in YYC where the ULCCs are gaining a major hold.
BTW being the smaller airline doesn't necessarily play into a disadvantage vs the larger carrier, thats a narrative you're telling yourself.

WestJet is doing good/alright at its main hub Calgary YYC. It's why they are increasing flights frequencies and have added more new destinations compared to other cities in Canada.