https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230417-wsjl?format=amp

MNL and others are now codeshares.

RobertLoblaw wrote:

What is the status of the two 787's sitting in San Antonio painted in WJ colours? Are they repairable with the manufacturing issue. I would say the answer to that question would determine whether or not ICN is added next year as well as another European destination which is rumoured.

With Boeing unable to deliver them WestJet had a right to terminate the sale. Until Boeing sells them to someone else Boeing has little incentive to touch them.

Given they are fitting to WestJet specification, Boeing would likely be happy to sell them (even if at a discount) to WestJet to get rid of them. That assumes WestJet at some point is going to change its mind. No idea when that day will come.

Union peace has at last been achieved with their Customer Service ground staff across all three main bases. The last of them , the Toronto agents ratified their first collective agreement. Now let us hope they follow suit with the frontline pilots next.

berari wrote:

hollywoodcory wrote:

ET1EDM wrote:

I did not realize that WS was using 2 of its Dreamliners to CUN and PVR. Is that daily?

Was actually 4 of them daily. YYC/YYZ-CUN and YYC/YVR-PVR.

With no additional widebodies, likely will see more frequencies to PVR and CUN on 73s. Especially now that we see Flair getting into the Mexico game with attractive fares.

How I hope they give us flights that don't take up valuable daytime hours to get us to Mexico, how about an evening flight to and/or back? I have also used the overnight/redeye ones which allowed for all day at destination.

Anyone can offer low fares.

The trick is to be able to do so and not have them result in 20% of your fleet being seized by lessors due to chronic late payments because of cash shortfall due to said low fares.

jimbo737 wrote:

Anyone can offer low fares.

The trick is to be able to do so and not have them result in 20% of your fleet being seized by lessors due to chronic late payments because of cash shortfall due to said low fares.

Shots fired.

Looks like less than 25 open seats on the inaugural YYC-BCN later today.

Acey wrote:

Looks like less than 25 open seats on the inaugural YYC-BCN later today.

Great to see. It'll be interesting to see how the Barcelona and Edinburgh routes play out.

WestJet adding their code on more Delta flights:
https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230510-wsdlcodeshare

TonyClifton wrote:

WestJet adding their code on more Delta flights:
https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230510-wsdlcodeshare

Just in time for the pilot strike

DLASFlyer wrote:

TonyClifton wrote:

WestJet adding their code on more Delta flights:
https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230510-wsdlcodeshare

Just in time for the pilot strike

It’s Delta operated, are DL pilots striking?

DLASFlyer wrote:

TonyClifton wrote:

WestJet adding their code on more Delta flights:
https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230510-wsdlcodeshare

Just in time for the pilot strike

The pilot strike is making headlines-I saw it on the national news last night.

I wouldn't book on Westjet for awhile. I'm sure I'm not alone.

Well, I booked on WJ. I am hoping saner minds prevail.

WestJet announces new 5x weekly service starting in September on YWG-ATL-YWG.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba ... -1.6839798

whywhycee wrote:

WestJet announces new 5x weekly service starting in September on YWG-ATL-YWG.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba ... -1.6839798

Subsidized, obviously. Apparently the government of Manitoba has no shortage of money to throw at WestJet.

Load factors on the also subsidized YWG-LAX suggest WS will fly the coop immediately if Manitoba decides they no longer want to play this game.

Acey wrote:

whywhycee wrote:

WestJet announces new 5x weekly service starting in September on YWG-ATL-YWG.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba ... -1.6839798

Subsidized, obviously. Apparently the government of Manitoba has no shortage of money to throw at WestJet.

Load factors on the also subsidized YWG-LAX suggest WS will fly the coop immediately if Manitoba decides they no longer want to play this game.

Subsidized but WS is pulling quite a high LF on LAX already, I believe that route is now year around. YWG is also a DL mainline destination. I have no doubt WS will be successful again on this new route.

Acey wrote:

whywhycee wrote:

WestJet announces new 5x weekly service starting in September on YWG-ATL-YWG.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba ... -1.6839798

Subsidized, obviously. Apparently the government of Manitoba has no shortage of money to throw at WestJet.

Load factors on the also subsidized YWG-LAX suggest WS will fly the coop immediately if Manitoba decides they no longer want to play this game.

In the article, it states the YWG -LAX route, WS didn’t end up using the subsidies?

“ WestJet didn't need any of the subsidies the province offered at that time, Stefanson”

WHYIOUEL wrote:

Acey wrote:

whywhycee wrote:

WestJet announces new 5x weekly service starting in September on YWG-ATL-YWG.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba ... -1.6839798

Subsidized, obviously. Apparently the government of Manitoba has no shortage of money to throw at WestJet.

Load factors on the also subsidized YWG-LAX suggest WS will fly the coop immediately if Manitoba decides they no longer want to play this game.

Subsidized but WS is pulling quite a high LF on LAX already, I believe that route is now year around. YWG is also a DL mainline destination. I have no doubt WS will be successful again on this new route.

I am fairly certain that after the initial months, the LAX route has not been subsidised. Its a dollar guarantee, and LAX seems to be hitting all numbers so subsidies are no longer needed.

ddp wrote:

WHYIOUEL wrote:

Acey wrote:

Subsidized, obviously. Apparently the government of Manitoba has no shortage of money to throw at WestJet.

Load factors on the also subsidized YWG-LAX suggest WS will fly the coop immediately if Manitoba decides they no longer want to play this game.

Subsidized but WS is pulling quite a high LF on LAX already, I believe that route is now year around. YWG is also a DL mainline destination. I have no doubt WS will be successful again on this new route.

I am fairly certain that after the initial months, the LAX route has not been subsidised. Its a dollar guarantee, and LAX seems to be hitting all numbers so subsidies are no longer needed.

Excellent news for them then, especially after the pandemic decimation of their network.

Aresxerexade wrote:

Acey wrote:

whywhycee wrote:

WestJet announces new 5x weekly service starting in September on YWG-ATL-YWG.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba ... -1.6839798

Subsidized, obviously. Apparently the government of Manitoba has no shortage of money to throw at WestJet.

Load factors on the also subsidized YWG-LAX suggest WS will fly the coop immediately if Manitoba decides they no longer want to play this game.

In the article, it states the YWG -LAX route, WS didn’t end up using the subsidies?

“ WestJet didn't need any of the subsidies the province offered at that time, Stefanson”

That would surprise me given the initial load factors, but this is nothing but good news for YWG-ATL. I also don't doubt that YWG-ATL will eventually be self-sustaining... it's just that initial startup that's a challenge.

Wondering seeing the YWG-ATL could YQR-MSP return on Encore? Seems like WS is keen to open up capacity into Delta Hubs

Boeing7379 wrote:

Wondering seeing the YWG-ATL could YQR-MSP return on Encore? Seems like WS is keen to open up capacity into Delta Hubs

So much for those theories of WS abandoning their relations with DL even though they have paused their interest in pursuing a JV.

From the Financial Post, it seems negotiations are going okay, a strike quite possibly may be averted ,as both parties appear to be coming to the table. Even so, there are many outstanding issues remaining however both are still talking to one another. Optimistic news ?


https://financialpost.com/transportatio ... -premature

cirrusdragoon wrote:

From the Financial Post, it seems negotiations are going okay, a strike quite possibly may be averted ,as both parties appear to be coming to the table. Even so, there are many outstanding issues remaining however both are still talking to one another. Optimistic news ?


https://financialpost.com/transportatio ... -premature

Can’t see them giving notice until Monday/Tuesday. Still a bit of time before the threat of impacting long weekend travel.

I haven’t flown the YWG-LAX flight, but holdroom has looked busy the few days I’ve seen. I hope the revenues justify its continued existence.

WestJet doesn’t really have the right equipment for YWG-LAX or YWG-ATL, IMO. They’ve managed to make 737’s work for a lot of things, but it seems like if the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail… if you look at WS in Prince George, Comox, even Saskatoon or Kelowna, and at Delta or United service to Fargo, Duluth, Sioux City, etc, they may run some A320 and 737, but quite a mix of CRJ and E175 as well to tune capacity, routes, and frequencies.

AC183 wrote:

WestJet doesn’t really have the right equipment for YWG-LAX or YWG-ATL, IMO.

This is a problem only getting worse because the oldest 700s are reaching end of life... and they've now made it clear they do not intend to take any 7M7. So they've backed themselves into a corner with no small jet, and a huge fleet of incoming ~212-seat MAX 10.

Acey wrote:

AC183 wrote:

WestJet doesn’t really have the right equipment for YWG-LAX or YWG-ATL, IMO.

This is a problem only getting worse because the oldest 700s are reaching end of life... and they've now made it clear they do not intend to take any 7M7. So they've backed themselves into a corner with no small jet, and a huge fleet of incoming ~212-seat MAX 10.

Oh to be a fly on the wall and know what on earth they have planned with Encores future fleet once the Q’s are retired one day much like how Alaska eliminated theirs.

cirrusdragoon wrote:

Acey wrote:

AC183 wrote:

WestJet doesn’t really have the right equipment for YWG-LAX or YWG-ATL, IMO.

This is a problem only getting worse because the oldest 700s are reaching end of life... and they've now made it clear they do not intend to take any 7M7. So they've backed themselves into a corner with no small jet, and a huge fleet of incoming ~212-seat MAX 10.

Oh to be a fly on the wall and know what on earth they have planned with Encores future fleet once the Q’s are retired one day much like how Alaska eliminated theirs.

Better solution would be the C-series (aka A220). They even have two sizes.

Acey wrote:

AC183 wrote:

WestJet doesn’t really have the right equipment for YWG-LAX or YWG-ATL, IMO.

This is a problem only getting worse because the oldest 700s are reaching end of life... and they've now made it clear they do not intend to take any 7M7. So they've backed themselves into a corner with no small jet, and a huge fleet of incoming ~212-seat MAX 10.

I still don't get it. They have to have done this for some reason but it just doesn't make any sense to me.

Well I understand not wanting any 7M7 as the 7MJ will have absurdly good costs per seat... but network planning is going to lose a whole bunch of flexibility as these 700s begin to exit and are replaced by jets with 80 more seats.

IceCream wrote:

I still don't get it. They have to have done this for some reason but it just doesn't make any sense to me.

They started out with Boeing. They have had a good relationship with Boeing. They realize there’s costs to other fleet types, and have kept an eye on that. There are unit cost advantages. And they probably get a very good price on 737’s, so if the capital cost is low you can adapt at least a little to running costs. They’re loyal to Boeing.

There’s pluses and minuses. In a country as large as Canada and with our low population density, I’d have said that if you only had one fleet type to choose, an A220 or E190 would be it. But also if you want to be a network carrier, you need more fleet flexibility.

The past does have a way of repeating itself. In some ways WestJet is the new incarnation of Pacific Western. Using smaller aircraft (Dash8) to siphon off just a few passengers from Canadi>n’s regional ops was how AC undermined the former PW strengths. WS partly succeeded in reconsolidating the market by differentiating themselves, but it’s still vulnerable to splitting. Right now both AC and WS are staying in their own backyard, as nobody wins if unsustainable moves are made. WS also no longer runs a low-price mantra. Will it be a few weekly flights pulling the lower end of the market that does it? Will it be another carrier with right-sized aircraft? Time will tell.

(A lack of right sized fleet could also be described as a part of their issue in the east, too)

loonytoon44 wrote:

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230417-wsjl?format=amp

MNL and others are now codeshares.

MNL IS NOT, if you go to Westjet.com click on book flight and type your departure city and arrival like YYC to MNL you should be able to see codeshare flights on Japan but Westjet does not allow to type in any other city than NRT.

whywhycee wrote:

WestJet announces new 5x weekly service starting in September on YWG-ATL-YWG.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba ... -1.6839798

What will the equipment be for this max 8?

b777900 wrote:

whywhycee wrote:

WestJet announces new 5x weekly service starting in September on YWG-ATL-YWG.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba ... -1.6839798

What will the equipment be for this max 8?

73G

b777900 wrote:

whywhycee wrote:

WestJet announces new 5x weekly service starting in September on YWG-ATL-YWG.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba ... -1.6839798

What will the equipment be for this max 8?

Planned with B738 so a MAX can easily be subbed in with the same seating capacity

Check day-by-day…

I’m seeing -700, -800 and MAX8’s…

Pilots issue strike notice! https://www.mix1037fm.com/2023/05/15/we ... ke-notice/

Aresxerexade wrote:

Pilots issue strike notice! https://www.mix1037fm.com/2023/05/15/we ... ke-notice/

This will be interesting to see how this will play out. Westjet could lockout the pilots and start all over.
I don’t think the pilots have much to lose if that happens other than seniority. They could find jobs with other airlines.

I think that’s on the table now.

https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/news/2023 ... -alpa-s-st

Well it's WS' fault. No sympathy for management. If they can't pay their pilots enough then WS needs to change their business strategies or downsize. Pilots should not have to bear the brunt.

Would the Encore pilots be affected? It isn't clear.

If this happens, I think we'll see WS scour every available aircraft out there from the likes of 5T, 4N, Summit, etc. Jetlines don't need more than 1 aircraft for their own ops, so there's a 320 right there. Imagine if Nolinor are available and there's some 732 flying!

Could be some unique spotting opportunities in the near future.

PD's YYC ops, even with just the threat of strike/lockout is likely seeing a bump in loads.

Who in Canada wouldn’t like to be paid identical wages to those in the US?

I’ll guarantee that WS and AC exec wages at the executive level are no where close to their US counterparts.

When WS earns 85% + of its revenue in US$, I’ll buy into that argument.

I can’t see Canadians accepting having to pay US$ to buy a ticket from Saskatoon to Ottawa.

That may be the case in basket case economies like Argentina where many higher priced items are priced in US$, but in Canada?

That won’t go over well, even with the Libs.

This demand simply illustrates how out of touch ALPA are with reality.

But then again, perhaps it’s part of ALPA’’s master plan.

Make airlines, all airlines in Canada so utterly uneconomic that they all disappear one by one, forcing the GOC to permit unilateral cabotage, which would quickly overwhelm who’s ever left.

Lo and behold, thousands more jobs are created for US pilots at airlines that take advantage of yet another industry in Canada that has no future.

Keep in mind that ALPA is an American organization.

America First.

Actually the Delta CEO and Air Canada CEO make very similar 12.4 million dollar compensation packages.

As for the pilots; I don’t even think most Canadian pilots are expecting dollar for dollar compensation equality to their US counterparts. The disparity however has grown to be ridiculous. Something has to be done from the pilots perspective. We fly the same aircraft, on the same routes in the same airspace often with same passengers.

Dominion301 wrote:

Would the Encore pilots be affected? It isn't clear.

If this happens, I think we'll see WS scour every available aircraft out there from the likes of 5T, 4N, Summit, etc. Jetlines don't need more than 1 aircraft for their own ops, so there's a 320 right there. Imagine if Nolinor are available and there's some 732 flying!

Could be some unique spotting opportunities in the near future.

PD's YYC ops, even with just the threat of strike/lockout is likely seeing a bump in loads.

Encore pilots won’t be affected. Only swoop/mainline as Encore is separate. They can’t staff their own flights so don’t expect them to cover much mainline flying.

Take a look at Cdn exec compensation outside the salaries that have to be disclosed as part of the AIF.

They aren’t even close, nor is their any expectation of their ever being close to level terms.

If people want to earn US compensation, take the steps that ensure that can occur.

Develop a set of skills that allow US companies such as Delta, Southwest, AA, UAL etc to hire you as a foreigner under various visa programs, move to the US and be prepared to revert to the bottom of the seniority list after doing so.

Or is ALPA planning to allow Canadian pilots to move to the US and fly with mainline operations with their seniority in place? Nah. I didn’t think so.

That might intrigue some, but most would balk at it when they take a hard look at what it really means personally for their families and themselves.

The devil is in the detail.

Good on WS for standing up to the union. One cannot expect to earn US wages while living in Canada. Let them leave to the US and be at the bottom of the seniority list.
AC will be watching closely. They are next in line.

jimbo737 wrote:

Take a look at Cdn exec compensation outside the salaries that have to be disclosed as part of the AIF.

They aren’t even close, nor is their any expectation of their ever being close to level terms.

If people want to earn US compensation, take the steps that ensure that can occur.

Develop a set of skills that allow US companies such as Delta, Southwest, AA, UAL etc to hire you as a foreigner under various visa programs, move to the US and be prepared to revert to the bottom of the seniority list after doing so.

Or is ALPA planning to allow Canadian pilots to move to the US and fly with mainline operations with their seniority in place? Nah. I didn’t think so.

That might intrigue some, but most would balk at it when they take a hard look at what it really means personally for their families and themselves.

The devil is in the detail.

Funny how the executive compensation uses US companies as comparators but with pilots they want to use Flair and Lynx.

Is this solely a pay issue though? Or is also a lifestyle issue ie. Commuter programs, scheduling, pairing lengths, days off?

I think its fairly obvious that Canadian pilots shouldn't be being paid what US pilots are making since the Canadian airlines aren't making as much money. But it seems like pay has been somewhat stagnant for a while at WS while some of their lifestyle conditions have been worsened (commuter program pre-Onex acquisition).

This will set the precident going forward and if there is a substantial pay increase you bet everyone else who is under Alpa will be next in line.

TonyClifton wrote:

WestJet adding their code on more Delta flights:
https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230510-wsdlcodeshare

The BOS codeshare flights seem more geared towards people who would be inbound or outbound on the YYC WestJet flight.
They still haven't brought back YYZ BOS (on Encore), and I don't expect they will, with the Toronto drawdowns in their system.
Perhaps a Delta Connection carrier will do BOS YYZ? Air Canada (Jazz) is the only carrier in that market - American (Eagle) also has not returned...although Porter does YTZ BOS.

jumbojettony wrote:

Is this solely a pay issue though? Or is also a lifestyle issue ie. Commuter programs, scheduling, pairing lengths, days off?

I think its fairly obvious that Canadian pilots shouldn't be being paid what US pilots are making since the Canadian airlines aren't making as much money. But it seems like pay has been somewhat stagnant for a while at WS while some of their lifestyle conditions have been worsened (commuter program pre-Onex acquisition).

This will set the precident going forward and if there is a substantial pay increase you bet everyone else who is under Alpa will be next in line.

No it’s not just pay, but that seems to be what is always reported. For many its career progression which the creation of Swoop has stagnated. Anyone with 9-10 years should have upgraded to Capt 3 or 4 years ago but Swoop has stopped that. For someone to move to Swoop it’s a 50% payout to become a Swoop Capt compared to a mainline Capt, from an FO it’s still a 15-20% pay cut. Now with Sunwing thrown into the mix there are now 3 different companies operating the same aircraft on the same routes with 3 different pay scales. And with no clear path of growth there is no career progression for Westjet pilots, and Encore pilots. That’s why we’ve lost 350+ pilots since last Jan.

Alexis wanted a smaller airline instead of paying pilots more… Guess he’ll see how small Westjet can get on friday.