YUL is a dump, but at least it’s a dump that will soon have a frequent rail connection. YHU is out there.

So based on the CTV article there'll be around 12 more flights a day at YHU with this terminal expansion.

I wonder how much PD, Pascan (potentially), and the government are each paying for this development.

I mean, if flair and/or lynx are throwing in services to YHU this expansion makes sense, but if its just porter I can't see it happening YKF is a pretty strong flair secondary city and it can't even reach 200K passengers per year, yet they're planning for 4 million passengers from YHU? Get real.

YHU isn't YKF, it's actually in a big metro area plus it's very easy to get to from the south shore. Should be at least at the same pax numbers as YXX when it opens.

IceCream wrote:

So based on the CTV article there'll be around 12 more flights a day at YHU with this terminal expansion.

I wonder how much PD, Pascan (potentially), and the government are each paying for this development.

100% private funds apparently.

Juju2004 wrote:

IceCream wrote:

So based on the CTV article there'll be around 12 more flights a day at YHU with this terminal expansion.

I wonder how much PD, Pascan (potentially), and the government are each paying for this development.

100% private funds apparently.

That would be great but is it fair that PD got $15 million out of the feds for their YOW facility, especially when YOW has an AIF that is supposed to cover capital projects?
I don't like any government subsidies but why the unfairness?

I'd rather the cash go to a facility like YHU that will take thousands of carbon spewing cars out of urban conjestion to some degree rather than being spent somewhere that it's just an outright gift that does nothing to benefit anybody except PD. In fact the YOW hand-out specifically hurts AC and WS with no over-riding benefits for any greater good whatsoever.

I just don't get it.

AC has had plenty of help from the govt over its life.

It’s quite funny seeing all this mouth-foaming and stink-eye towards PD, preaching it’s imminent doom for years now, yet time and time again (for the desperation and despair of some here) Porter has undeniably shown tactical expansion, gaining momentum and growth in a highly stagnant and overcrowded market with out-of-the-box thinking. Congratulations to everyone at PD involved in this goal and accomplishments! Keep going!

Lamp1009 wrote:

I mean, if flair and/or lynx are throwing in services to YHU this expansion makes sense, but if its just porter I can't see it happening YKF is a pretty strong flair secondary city and it can't even reach 200K passengers per year, yet they're planning for 4 million passengers from YHU? Get real.

YKF is going to be well over 1/2 million pax in 2023.

The new terminal will be open to other airlines, including Pascan Aviation. Pascan’s current YHU network focuses on regional Québec flights. Porter and Pascan intend to develop a codeshare partnership that facilitates seamless movement of passengers between their respective airlines. This provides increased opportunities for travellers to move within the province of Québec and other regions of Canada.

As mentioned on the weekend, not surprised about the Pascan alliance/codeshare.

Now all PD needs to do is add a couple of Dash 8s a day out of YND/Gatineau to complete the trifecta of dual airport ops.

PD209 cancelled tonight. Tomorrow night it appears to be scheduled as PD2194 on a DH4. Definitely having their teething issues with the Embraer. The switch to the DH4 for the YYZ-YHZ flight seems to have been made for the remainder of March. The E195 isn't scheduled to return to YYZ-YHZ until the flight goes to 2x daily in April.

Juju2004 wrote:

IceCream wrote:

So based on the CTV article there'll be around 12 more flights a day at YHU with this terminal expansion.

I wonder how much PD, Pascan (potentially), and the government are each paying for this development.

100% private funds apparently.

Property developers? In the announcement, they talked about a hotel for a big American chain (Hilton or Marriott, I guess - their name was not given) being built next door.

Also, I'm surprised they're not doing anything more on public transport links. exo3 is passing right by the airfield and is 2 stops from downtown. Something to do there, and at little cost.

So multiple groups see on board with this idea. I think it has some potential

BangersAndMash wrote:

Property developers? In the announcement, they talked about a hotel for a big American chain (Hilton or Marriott, I guess - their name was not given) being built next door.

Holiday inn.

BangersAndMash wrote:

Also, I'm surprised they're not doing anything more on public transport links. exo3 is passing right by the airfield and is 2 stops from downtown. Something to do there, and at little cost.

I noticed the same thing. Less than 20 minutes to Gare Centrale. It has limited service now, could it not handle a more regular service more often?

I’m not familiar with the area, but would YHU not be a viable alternative to those in downtown Montreal?

FlyingCheetos wrote:

It’s quite funny seeing all this mouth-foaming and stink-eye towards PD, preaching it’s imminent doom for years now, yet time and time again (for the desperation and despair of some here) Porter has undeniably shown tactical expansion, gaining momentum and growth in a highly stagnant and overcrowded market with out-of-the-box thinking.

I’m guessing the skepticism is rooted in Porter’s own admission that since their first flight, 15+ years ago, they have never generated an operating profit. Their continued operation has been funded by investor capital and (very) shrewd real estate transactions.

The St. Hubert proposal looks like another shrewd deal and frankly, I’m surprised no one has considered it before. It reeks of possibility.

We all want Porter to succeed. Sometimes the sharper armchair CEOs on this website throw a splash of reality on us.

FlyingCheetos wrote:

Porter has undeniably shown tactical expansion

YYZ-YVR and YYZ-YYC are tactical expansion?

It's fine if you don't believe Porter's own admission that they're not profitable, but let's not pretend they're trying anything revolutionary with their jet expansion.

CrewBunk wrote:

BangersAndMash wrote:

Also, I'm surprised they're not doing anything more on public transport links. exo3 is passing right by the airfield and is 2 stops from downtown. Something to do there, and at little cost.

I noticed the same thing. Less than 20 minutes to Gare Centrale. It has limited service now, could it not handle a more regular service more often?

I’m not familiar with the area, but would YHU not be a viable alternative to those in downtown Montreal?

No. Without traffic, YUL is more accessible and quicker to get to.

YHU could be a viable alternative if there was a direct rail link from Downtown Montreal.

As long as PBG remains 60 miles from Greater Montreal, it’s going to be very difficult to compete on price with the US carriers.

YHU is a very high risk move for private equity.

Adding a rail link using public money on an unproven business case is insane.

Have the nimbys spoken yet? They will. Airport authorities will never be satisfied with 12 flights a day. They live and breath grow, grow, grow. And in Canada, utilization is everything. Operators will not be happy with those utilization squashing curfews.

Would you want your pension being placed at risk for this sort of adventure that is being driven by a company that has publicly admitted it’s never made an operating profit?

YUL-YHU are 16 miles apart compared to YVR-YXX at 40 miles apart.

And to anticipate NYC comps, Montreal is no NYC.

It’s not the first time YHU has been bandied about and won’t be the last.

YXX was able to operate in a “proof of concept” mode for more than a few years by converting a vehicle maintenance building into a terminal. YQQ was nothing more than a few ATCO trailers cobbled together.

The smart move would be to find a creative way to use the existing facility first, prove it’s viable, then build a low cost terminal in a few years time.

Noise wrote:

YHU could be a viable alternative if there was a direct rail link from Downtown Montreal.

I thought there was.

I don’t know the area, but I see a rail link, entitled exo3 that runs twice a day between Gare Centrale downtown Montreal and St Hubert. It kind of looks like the GO Train in southern Ontario / Toronto. Could that service not be exapanded?

This is a genuine question as it looks to use existing VIA rail lines and expansion may not be possible.

CrewBunk wrote:

Noise wrote:

YHU could be a viable alternative if there was a direct rail link from Downtown Montreal.

I thought there was.

I don’t know the area, but I see a rail link, entitled exo3 that runs twice a day between Gare Centrale downtown Montreal and St Hubert. It kind of looks like the GO Train in southern Ontario / Toronto. Could that service not be exapanded?

This is a genuine question as it looks to use existing VIA rail lines and expansion may not be possible.

The rail line doesn't go directly to where the proposed terminal would be located (at the opposite end of the airport, in fact). I'm not sure if there even any plans to connect the terminal to any rail line whatsoever.

Just curious, what type of landing system does YHU have ? Can they handle the same visibility constraints as YUL , or will there be a bunch of diversions to YUL when the snow flies ?
On the other hand, will NavCan upgrade their current system to handle our Canadian winters ?

YOWVIEWER wrote:

Just curious, what type of landing system does YHU have ? Can they handle the same visibility constraints as YUL , or will there be a bunch of diversions to YUL when the snow flies ?
On the other hand, will NavCan upgrade their current system to handle our Canadian winters ?

YHU presently has an ILS on 24R allowing down to 200’ and 1/2 mile/RVR 2600. Depending on the ops specs of the airline this can be lowered to RVR 1600. They also have an RNAV GNSS approach to 06L allowing 251’ and 1 mile with LPV and 410’ and 1 1/2 miles using VNAV/LNAV.

YUL has an ILS on all 06/24s (200’ 1/2 mile/RVR 2600 lowerable to 1600) with a CAT II ILS on 06L allowing down to RVR 1200.

I think one of the big issues is YUL in general. For years A.Netters made fun of FLYYUL saying that Montreal had great potential. That YYC was leaving it in it's dust and the gap would only grow wider. He got himself into a position at AC to prove them wrong. Now YUL is years away from having enough gates to handle capacity. It's not a surprise that airlines are thinking out of the box, with the box being YUL. Air Inuit and Air Creebec were wise to build their own passenger facilities away from the main terminal, even if part of that was that some of their flights are unsecure. If the domestic gate crunch at YUL continues at the current pace I will not be surprised to see other low cost carriers give YHU a try with at least one route to start. If that happens, they will be paying Porter for gate access and probably ground handling. There is no doubt in my mind that the fees at YHU will also be lower than at YUL. It's a long shop, but at least someone is trying something different in Montreal.

Thenoflyzone wrote:

Juju2004 wrote:

Thenoflyzone wrote:

Quebec regional carriers might be interested in operating out of this terminal however. I expect Pascan, Nolinor and the likes to knock on PD's door quite soon after this terminal is built.

Pascan has their own FBO and so does Nolinor, but airlines like Air Creebec, PAL, or even domestic QC that PD could run themselves makes sense from YHU.

Pascan has commercial ops out of YUL with their Saab 340s as well. They clearly don't have the space and/or equipment at YHU to sustain all of their operations, especially those involving planes greater than 19 seats. This new terminal building could change that.

As an aside, Pascan is a pain to navigate. They don't have a route map on their Web site so it's hard to figure out where they fly to from where, and when. For example, they apparently fly to Baie Comeau. Yet when I search for flights from Montreal or Quebec into Baie Comeau for a random set of dates in March I get "No flights found." To expand their market a bit, I hope they work on that. I do some work travel within Quebec and alternatives to flying back and forth on AC via Montreal would be welcome. But we have to be able to find them!

yhu wrote:

I think one of the big issues is YUL in general. For years A.Netters made fun of FLYYUL saying that Montreal had great potential. That YYC was leaving it in it's dust and the gap would only grow wider. He got himself into a position at AC to prove them wrong. Now YUL is years away from having enough gates to handle capacity.

I remember those years (early-to-mid 2000s). It's amazing what he's done.

Former recent chairman of YHU here who led the start of the negotiations with Porter. The biggest advantage of YHU over YUL is that Transport Canada sold YHU for $1 to the non-profit that operates it, no strings attached (in fact the non-profit could sell the land and shut the airport down if they chose to), but it retained ownership of YUL and charges ADM a fortune to lease the land. For this reason, structurally, YHU will always be much cheaper to operate at than YUL. ADM would argue that the price they pay is what justifies their exclusivity on international flights and they won't willingly give it up without major concessions from Transport Canada on their rent or otherwise. But I don't think that can stand up to public pressure: the flying public from the south shore will want to be able to fly to sunshine destinations from their airport, and politicians will be sensitive to that. A government decree could probably fix that, and many will be lobbying for that to happen. If that means lowering the rent at YUL (and the other airports in the National Airport System), then so be it. TC needs to realize that the rent they charge is a tax on passengers.

On ground transportation, I agree with a previous poster on the fact that the proximity of commuter train stations is understated -- the St. Hubert station is across the street from the airport but at the opposite end from the terminal, which is a 5-minute shuttle ride away from the terminal . Porter could simply have their shuttle stop at the train station on the way to the subway station, and passengers going downtown during train operating hours would be there in 2 stations, i.e. a lot faster than by subway.

Happy to provide more insights.

YOWVIEWER wrote:

On the other hand, will NavCan upgrade their current system to handle our Canadian winters ?

And what kind of system would that be?

jimbo737 wrote:

As long as PBG remains 60 miles from Greater Montreal, it’s going to be very difficult to compete on price with the US carriers.

YHU can't compete with PBG, as they won't be allowed to serve destinations in the US.

jimbo737 wrote:

YHU is a very high risk move for private equity.

Honestly, I think this is a safer bet for PD than acquiring the E195s.

The capacity constraints at YUL aren't going away anytime soon. If this building gets up and running in 2025, (which is a more realistic timeframe than late-2024), airlines will flock to it in no time, especially ULCC and regional carriers not dependent on AC or TS. This is a smart move by PD. $200 million is nothing. That's 3 E195s.

CrewBunk wrote:

BangersAndMash wrote:

Also, I'm surprised they're not doing anything more on public transport links. exo3 is passing right by the airfield and is 2 stops from downtown. Something to do there, and at little cost.

I noticed the same thing. Less than 20 minutes to Gare Centrale. It has limited service now, could it not handle a more regular service more often?

I’m not familiar with the area, but would YHU not be a viable alternative to those in downtown Montreal?

The current St. Hubert stop is on the wrong (Western) side of the airfield. It looks like the terminal will be on the Eastern side. And yes, the commuter trains that stop there (7 a day in each direction) are concentrated in the morning and evening peak, so only moderately useful right now. An infill station should be relatively inexpensive to build though.

The rail line also carries Via Rail traffic to Quebec City. If they could get these trains to stop, it would bring St. Hyacinthe and Drummondville into the catchment area, give a more even schedule during the day, and provide a non-stop connection to Central Station.

I suppose any AIF collected at YHU will be used to at least partially pay down the $200 million project cost. A million passengers/year @ $15 per would be $15 million a year. Not shabby.
It's making more and more sense to me the more I think about it.
The land cost is zero as well.

BangersAndMash wrote:

CrewBunk wrote:

BangersAndMash wrote:

Also, I'm surprised they're not doing anything more on public transport links. exo3 is passing right by the airfield and is 2 stops from downtown. Something to do there, and at little cost.

I noticed the same thing. Less than 20 minutes to Gare Centrale. It has limited service now, could it not handle a more regular service more often?

I’m not familiar with the area, but would YHU not be a viable alternative to those in downtown Montreal?

The current St. Hubert stop is on the wrong (Western) side of the airfield. It looks like the terminal will be on the Eastern side. And yes, the commuter trains that stop there (7 a day in each direction) are concentrated in the morning and evening peak, so only moderately useful right now. An infill station should be relatively inexpensive to build though.

The rail line also carries Via Rail traffic to Quebec City. If they could get these trains to stop, it would bring St. Hyacinthe and Drummondville into the catchment area, give a more even schedule during the day, and provide a non-stop connection to Central Station.

I think the St Bruno stop would be a lot closer to the new terminal and easier to run a shuttle to and from. The issue of infrequent trains outside of rush hour remains, though.

YHUFan wrote:

Former recent chairman of YHU here who led the start of the negotiations with Porter. The biggest advantage of YHU over YUL is that Transport Canada sold YHU for $1 to the non-profit that operates it, no strings attached (in fact the non-profit could sell the land and shut the airport down if they chose to), but it retained ownership of YUL and charges ADM a fortune to lease the land. For this reason, structurally, YHU will always be much cheaper to operate at than YUL. ADM would argue that the price they pay is what justifies their exclusivity on international flights and they won't willingly give it up without major concessions from Transport Canada on their rent or otherwise. But I don't think that can stand up to public pressure: the flying public from the south shore will want to be able to fly to sunshine destinations from their airport, and politicians will be sensitive to that. A government decree could probably fix that, and many will be lobbying for that to happen. If that means lowering the rent at YUL (and the other airports in the National Airport System), then so be it. TC needs to realize that the rent they charge is a tax on passengers.

On ground transportation, I agree with a previous poster on the fact that the proximity of commuter train stations is understated -- the St. Hubert station is across the street from the airport but at the opposite end from the terminal, which is a 5-minute shuttle ride away from the terminal . Porter could simply have their shuttle stop at the train station on the way to the subway station, and passengers going downtown during train operating hours would be there in 2 stations, i.e. a lot faster than by subway.

Happy to provide more insights.

Besides Pascan, are other airlines interested as well?

Skywatcher wrote:

I suppose any AIF collected at YHU will be used to at least partially pay down the $200 million project cost. A million passengers/year @ $15 per would be $15 million a year. Not shabby.
It's making more and more sense to me the more I think about it.
The land cost is zero as well.

Porter do certainly know a thing or two about real estate. Ironically, a terminal at YHU could actually be beneficial to AC at YUL. If PD were to reduce service at YUL (maybe they won't if they eventually decide they want to fly to Florida out of Montreal) and Flair were to shift entirely to YUL (possible given they've shown no interest in transborder/international ops ex-YUL), that could actually free up a few additional slots at peak times. Pascan seems to be returning to just YHU.

IceCream wrote:

YHUFan wrote:

Former recent chairman of YHU here who led the start of the negotiations with Porter. The biggest advantage of YHU over YUL is that Transport Canada sold YHU for $1 to the non-profit that operates it, no strings attached (in fact the non-profit could sell the land and shut the airport down if they chose to), but it retained ownership of YUL and charges ADM a fortune to lease the land. For this reason, structurally, YHU will always be much cheaper to operate at than YUL. ADM would argue that the price they pay is what justifies their exclusivity on international flights and they won't willingly give it up without major concessions from Transport Canada on their rent or otherwise. But I don't think that can stand up to public pressure: the flying public from the south shore will want to be able to fly to sunshine destinations from their airport, and politicians will be sensitive to that. A government decree could probably fix that, and many will be lobbying for that to happen. If that means lowering the rent at YUL (and the other airports in the National Airport System), then so be it. TC needs to realize that the rent they charge is a tax on passengers.

On ground transportation, I agree with a previous poster on the fact that the proximity of commuter train stations is understated -- the St. Hubert station is across the street from the airport but at the opposite end from the terminal, which is a 5-minute shuttle ride away from the terminal . Porter could simply have their shuttle stop at the train station on the way to the subway station, and passengers going downtown during train operating hours would be there in 2 stations, i.e. a lot faster than by subway.

Happy to provide more insights.

Besides Pascan, are other airlines interested as well?

I remember hearing a while back when Flair wanted to open a pilot base in Montreal that it wasn't for YUL but actually YHU. So wouldn't surprise me if Flair is onto this aswell.

yhu wrote:

BangersAndMash wrote:

CrewBunk wrote:

I noticed the same thing. Less than 20 minutes to Gare Centrale. It has limited service now, could it not handle a more regular service more often?

I’m not familiar with the area, but would YHU not be a viable alternative to those in downtown Montreal?

The current St. Hubert stop is on the wrong (Western) side of the airfield. It looks like the terminal will be on the Eastern side. And yes, the commuter trains that stop there (7 a day in each direction) are concentrated in the morning and evening peak, so only moderately useful right now. An infill station should be relatively inexpensive to build though.

The rail line also carries Via Rail traffic to Quebec City. If they could get these trains to stop, it would bring St. Hyacinthe and Drummondville into the catchment area, give a more even schedule during the day, and provide a non-stop connection to Central Station.

I think the St Bruno stop would be a lot closer to the new terminal and easier to run a shuttle to and from. The issue of infrequent trains outside of rush hour remains, though.

If Via trains make a stop, that's 13 trains a day in each direction (7x exo + 6x Via). It's starting to look respectable. Anyways, it looks like they're going for a shuttle bus to downtown. At least, they're thinking about transportation.

The way PD expanding, I am actually very surprised it has not tried out YXX yet.
Fraser Valley is growing like crazy, and a third of the Greater Vancouver may be more accessible to YXX than YVR.
YXX to YYZ, YOW and YUL may be immediately viable.

BangersAndMash wrote:

yhu wrote:

BangersAndMash wrote:

The current St. Hubert stop is on the wrong (Western) side of the airfield. It looks like the terminal will be on the Eastern side. And yes, the commuter trains that stop there (7 a day in each direction) are concentrated in the morning and evening peak, so only moderately useful right now. An infill station should be relatively inexpensive to build though.

The rail line also carries Via Rail traffic to Quebec City. If they could get these trains to stop, it would bring St. Hyacinthe and Drummondville into the catchment area, give a more even schedule during the day, and provide a non-stop connection to Central Station.

I think the St Bruno stop would be a lot closer to the new terminal and easier to run a shuttle to and from. The issue of infrequent trains outside of rush hour remains, though.

If Via trains make a stop, that's 13 trains a day in each direction (7x exo + 6x Via). It's starting to look respectable. Anyways, it looks like they're going for a shuttle bus to downtown. At least, they're thinking about transportation.

As they should. Once REM opens, a quick 26 min jaunt downtown will far outweigh the convenience of a smaller YHU terminal. Some transportation option needs to be in place.

Changeup2000 wrote:

The way PD expanding, I am actually very surprised it has not tried out YXX yet.
Fraser Valley is growing like crazy, and a third of the Greater Vancouver may be more accessible to YXX than YVR.
YXX to YYZ, YOW and YUL may be immediately viable.

As someone who grew up in Langley, I would love to see expansion out of Abbotsford. But with Flair and Swoop already duking it out on YYZ, I don't think there's much room for Porter. YOW would probably be too thin of a market but maybe Montreal could work if there's decent connections on wards established.

BangersAndMash wrote:

yhu wrote:

BangersAndMash wrote:

The current St. Hubert stop is on the wrong (Western) side of the airfield. It looks like the terminal will be on the Eastern side. And yes, the commuter trains that stop there (7 a day in each direction) are concentrated in the morning and evening peak, so only moderately useful right now. An infill station should be relatively inexpensive to build though.

The rail line also carries Via Rail traffic to Quebec City. If they could get these trains to stop, it would bring St. Hyacinthe and Drummondville into the catchment area, give a more even schedule during the day, and provide a non-stop connection to Central Station.

I think the St Bruno stop would be a lot closer to the new terminal and easier to run a shuttle to and from. The issue of infrequent trains outside of rush hour remains, though.

If Via trains make a stop, that's 13 trains a day in each direction (7x exo + 6x Via). It's starting to look respectable. Anyways, it looks like they're going for a shuttle bus to downtown. At least, they're thinking about transportation.

Given that the station is offsite I don't think that the train to St. Hubert would be any more viable than the train to Dorval, which is not seen as a particularly attractive option for getting to YUL.

Crossing the Papineau bridge in rush hour to get out of downtown and to YHU is not going to be quicker than going out to YUL, especially after the REM comes online (whenever that happens), and those late afternoon flights are key for business travelers.

HVNandrew wrote:

BangersAndMash wrote:

yhu wrote:

I think the St Bruno stop would be a lot closer to the new terminal and easier to run a shuttle to and from. The issue of infrequent trains outside of rush hour remains, though.

If Via trains make a stop, that's 13 trains a day in each direction (7x exo + 6x Via). It's starting to look respectable. Anyways, it looks like they're going for a shuttle bus to downtown. At least, they're thinking about transportation.

Given that the station is offsite I don't think that the train to St. Hubert would be any more viable than the train to Dorval, which is not seen as a particularly attractive option for getting to YUL.

Crossing the Papineau bridge in rush hour to get out of downtown and to YHU is not going to be quicker than going out to YUL, especially after the REM comes online (whenever that happens), and those late afternoon flights are key for business travelers.

Quick Google search shows the current timeline for REM to YUL is 2027.

https://rem.info/en/work-schedule

drgmobile wrote:

HVNandrew wrote:

BangersAndMash wrote:

If Via trains make a stop, that's 13 trains a day in each direction (7x exo + 6x Via). It's starting to look respectable. Anyways, it looks like they're going for a shuttle bus to downtown. At least, they're thinking about transportation.

Given that the station is offsite I don't think that the train to St. Hubert would be any more viable than the train to Dorval, which is not seen as a particularly attractive option for getting to YUL.

Crossing the Papineau bridge in rush hour to get out of downtown and to YHU is not going to be quicker than going out to YUL, especially after the REM comes online (whenever that happens), and those late afternoon flights are key for business travelers.

Quick Google search shows the current timeline for REM to YUL is 2027.

https://rem.info/en/work-schedule

My comment was more tongue in cheek given the history of construction timelines in Quebec.

HVNandrew wrote:

BangersAndMash wrote:

yhu wrote:

I think the St Bruno stop would be a lot closer to the new terminal and easier to run a shuttle to and from. The issue of infrequent trains outside of rush hour remains, though.

If Via trains make a stop, that's 13 trains a day in each direction (7x exo + 6x Via). It's starting to look respectable. Anyways, it looks like they're going for a shuttle bus to downtown. At least, they're thinking about transportation.

Given that the station is offsite I don't think that the train to St. Hubert would be any more viable than the train to Dorval, which is not seen as a particularly attractive option for getting to YUL.

Crossing the Papineau bridge in rush hour to get out of downtown and to YHU is not going to be quicker than going out to YUL, especially after the REM comes online (whenever that happens), and those late afternoon flights are key for business travelers.

Hence the need for an infill station. The infrastructure is there. You just need to use it. It would be supporting existing services. If the airport serves 1M pax a year, and a third of these take public transit, that's 1K extra passengers a day on average. And it would still be quicker than multiple stops on REM, whenever that comes online.

lostsound wrote:

Changeup2000 wrote:

The way PD expanding, I am actually very surprised it has not tried out YXX yet.
Fraser Valley is growing like crazy, and a third of the Greater Vancouver may be more accessible to YXX than YVR.
YXX to YYZ, YOW and YUL may be immediately viable.

As someone who grew up in Langley, I would love to see expansion out of Abbotsford. But with Flair and Swoop already duking it out on YYZ, I don't think there's much room for Porter. YOW would probably be too thin of a market but maybe Montreal could work if there's decent connections on wards established.

Not sure if PD is competing with F8 and WO. I am feeling PD is trying to build a quasi-mainline product which may be attractive to someone in the valley who is tired of long haul ULCC services.

YXX to YOW may be a good connection option to get access to PD's Q400 network for US and east Canada destinations.

lostsound wrote:

Changeup2000 wrote:

The way PD expanding, I am actually very surprised it has not tried out YXX yet.
Fraser Valley is growing like crazy, and a third of the Greater Vancouver may be more accessible to YXX than YVR.
YXX to YYZ, YOW and YUL may be immediately viable.

As someone who grew up in Langley, I would love to see expansion out of Abbotsford. But with Flair and Swoop already duking it out on YYZ, I don't think there's much room for Porter. YOW would probably be too thin of a market but maybe Montreal could work if there's decent connections on wards established.

F8 flew YXX-YOW in summer 2021. Wrong size aircraft with no connections. PD on the other hand with YOW connections, a daily frequency vs 2x weekly and a smaller aircraft would have a better chance of success. However, YXX would be far down PD’s potential destinations list.

BangersAndMash wrote:

HVNandrew wrote:

BangersAndMash wrote:

If Via trains make a stop, that's 13 trains a day in each direction (7x exo + 6x Via). It's starting to look respectable. Anyways, it looks like they're going for a shuttle bus to downtown. At least, they're thinking about transportation.

Given that the station is offsite I don't think that the train to St. Hubert would be any more viable than the train to Dorval, which is not seen as a particularly attractive option for getting to YUL.

Crossing the Papineau bridge in rush hour to get out of downtown and to YHU is not going to be quicker than going out to YUL, especially after the REM comes online (whenever that happens), and those late afternoon flights are key for business travelers.

Hence the need for an infill station. The infrastructure is there. You just need to use it. It would be supporting existing services. If the airport serves 1M pax a year, and a third of these take public transit, that's 1K extra passengers a day on average. And it would still be quicker than multiple stops on REM, whenever that comes online.

Just a question regarding this. Where would you envision the infill station? I’ll admit I’m basing this off of google maps but since the terminal will be located somewhere near the crossing at Route de l’Aeroport and Boulevard de Clairevue a through branch along Boulevard de Clairevue would create a lot of level crossings but allow for a bit of a loop down to Saint-Bruno to join the main line. Quite an expensive option.

Otherwise a terminator stop could be built with either trains terminating at YHU or backtracking to continue along the line. This would increase commute times but would allow for a better connection. Otherwise, a shuttle rain service to Gare Longeuil-Saint Hubert could be built with a third platform. That has its own problems.

Looks like YOW-YQB is already removed before it even started.

Where are they getting Q400s to start these new routes? Are they not utilizing their whole fleet since the pandemic still?

runway23 wrote:

Looks like YOW-YQB is already removed before it even started.

Aircraft probably needed to fund the temporary DH4 YYZ ops. Must have been the weakest for advanced bookings of the four December 2022 YOW DH4 routes announced. Appears to have been quietly pulled a couple of days before YYG-YOW was announced. Suspect YQB-YOW will get another look down the road once there’s more connections over YOW.

I wonder if Porter might pick up some of Horizon's retired Q400's? The 195 looks amazing, and I am tempted to book a flight on Porter soon. They keep growing, and they seem to be doing fairly well. It's always fun to see an Airline like Porter proving the naysayers wrong.

F9Animal wrote:

I wonder if Porter might pick up some of Horizon's retired Q400's? The 195 looks amazing, and I am tempted to book a flight on Porter soon. They keep growing, and they seem to be doing fairly well. It's always fun to see an Airline like Porter proving the naysayers wrong.

The airline hasn’t made money since starting 15 years ago. Already has 6 EMBs and wants a total of 50 over the next 2 years………..naysayers may have some valid points but best of luck to Porter