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smokeybandit
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Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:34 pm

A friend whose kids got caught up in all this going to their grandparents house (and WN randomly canceled their return flight, too) managed to get their luggage back over the weekend, despite a lot of "we don't know where it is" from various agents at various airports.
 
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par13del
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Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:41 pm

ChetManly24 wrote:
I see corporate has announced quite a few promotions today. Optics behind that could only go over well within the company.

Do we have a public listing so that folks can verify if these are the folks who greatly assisted in fixing and getting things back on track versus those who created / maintained the environment that created the meltdown?
I would like to think that those employees who were subjected to all manner of work conditions as a result would be adequately compensated for going above and beyond.
 
ericm2031
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Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:59 pm

par13del wrote:
ChetManly24 wrote:
I see corporate has announced quite a few promotions today. Optics behind that could only go over well within the company.

Do we have a public listing so that folks can verify if these are the folks who greatly assisted in fixing and getting things back on track versus those who created / maintained the environment that created the meltdown?
I would like to think that those employees who were subjected to all manner of work conditions as a result would be adequately compensated for going above and beyond.


https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 16973.html
 
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par13del
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Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Tue Jan 10, 2023 3:49 pm

Thanks, so from a basic read, these may well be those who continued same ole same ole, will read what those at WN contribute to the discourse.
 
rumorboy
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Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:25 pm

Adam now will be in the loop and in the decision process's vs just putting together route leg files(aka schedules). None of these promotions have to do with the melt down. More about front end scheduling. The meat and potatoes of daily ops is how they go about pre canceling and close in cancellations. This is where they have a problem. Especially on a large scale. When you cancel 1-2% of your schedule, it’s easily recoverable. When you cancel 30-70% that’s a whole different animal. The two main software platforms these use are just not adequate for the scale of their operation. All those investments are made at the executive level. They choose how to invest their capital expenditures every year. Although according to the CEO they spend a billion plus on non aircraft expenditures every year, it’s a choice. Reservation system, new mx system, ops suite are all choices they made in the past. They have left some back end platforms for later. Obviously a bad choice.
 
Eolesen
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Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:30 pm

jplatts wrote:
avi8 wrote:
I think their system need to accept foreign currency as well.


I agree that WN really needs to update its systems to handle foreign currency as
  • There are some Mexican residents who do book flights out of CUN to the U.S.
  • There are some Mexican residents who do book flights out of ELP/HRL/SAN to other contiguous U.S. destinations
  • There are some Canadian residents who do book flights out of BLI/BUF/DTW to other contiguous U.S. destinations
  • WN serves some destinations in Aruba, the Bahamas, Belize, Costa Rica, Cuba, the Dominican Republic, Grand Cayman Island, Jamaica, and Turks and Caicos in addition to destinations in the contiguous U.S., Hawaii, Puerto Rico, and Mexico
  • There are American expatriate populations in some of the international markets served by WN such as CUN, LIR, and SJO that would be willing to book WN flights if WN systems are upgraded to handle Mexican Pesos and Costa Rica Colones
Since Amadeus is on the back end, there's no reason Southwest can't accept foreign currency.

It may just be a choice, since dealing with banks and currency conversions, laws on repatriating funds, etc eventually start to eat in the profit margins. Collecting USD only solves that problem, and it's really not a problem for most people outside the US to spend in USD. In many ways it's a more stable currency than their own.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk
 
FlyingSicilian
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Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:44 pm

Eolesen wrote:
jplatts wrote:
avi8 wrote:
I think their system need to accept foreign currency as well.


I agree that WN really needs to update its systems to handle foreign currency as
  • There are some Mexican residents who do book flights out of CUN to the U.S.
  • There are some Mexican residents who do book flights out of ELP/HRL/SAN to other contiguous U.S. destinations
  • There are some Canadian residents who do book flights out of BLI/BUF/DTW to other contiguous U.S. destinations
  • WN serves some destinations in Aruba, the Bahamas, Belize, Costa Rica, Cuba, the Dominican Republic, Grand Cayman Island, Jamaica, and Turks and Caicos in addition to destinations in the contiguous U.S., Hawaii, Puerto Rico, and Mexico
  • There are American expatriate populations in some of the international markets served by WN such as CUN, LIR, and SJO that would be willing to book WN flights if WN systems are upgraded to handle Mexican Pesos and Costa Rica Colones
Since Amadeus is on the back end, there's no reason Southwest can't accept foreign currency.

It may just be a choice, since dealing with banks and currency conversions, laws on repatriating funds, etc eventually start to eat in the profit margins. Collecting USD only solves that problem, and it's really not a problem for most people outside the US to spend in USD. In many ways it's a more stable currency than their own.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk


Yet all the other big kid airlines can do it. It is truly fascinating to see the lengths to which some WN sycophants will go to to try and defend feckless incompetence. As someone who works in the international sphere, it is not as hard as you seem to make it out to be.ssme with the goofy app discussion above where instead of getting WN to upgrade to match the usefulness of other apps people try to make excuses and say one should just try other means. Amazingly short sighted from a business perspective. Don't be like the Chicago bears living off the 80s...time to move forward.

While I concur the American public has a short attention span, and this event will be forgotten by some by Easter most likely, it will not bode well for the future, or more importantly stock holders, if their underlying challenges are not addressed.
The current CEO has said in the past he wanted to address it so hopefully that investment comes sooner rather than latter.
 
Eolesen
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Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:49 pm

I'm far from defending feckless incompetence as you put it. I'm just not blaming the infrastructure for it as so many other people seem to assume.

I've got no reason to support Southwest since I do work for a competitor. But I've also spent time supporting payments for a couple dozen airlines and it's not as simple as you might think. Maintaining an administering merchant bank relationships in a half dozen countries can be done from Dallas, but dealing with taxes and laws in a bunch of countries complicates matters more than it needs to be than if you simply force USD as the currency.

Perhaps a better question to answer is why Southwest should bear cost for the currency conversion, versus paying for it on a foreign issued credit card and the consumer eating the cost of the currency conversion?

The transaction fees at Southwest is paying on its domestic USD transactions is fractions of what they would be paying for lower volume transactions in the foreign currency.
 
rumorboy
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Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Tue Jan 10, 2023 7:25 pm

Foreign currency POS is a choice that SWA management chooses not to do at the moment. Their system does give them the ability to do so. Same with assign seating. They can but choose not to. It’s been brought up many times with employee town meetings and they make it clear they can but choose not to. You can debate they should but they choose not to.
 
Eolesen
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Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Tue Jan 10, 2023 7:31 pm

And they are also set up to charge bag fees, change fees, and every other ancillary that the big boy airlines do.

For those demanding that Southwest grow up, be very careful for what you ask for.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk
 
Chemist
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Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Wed Jan 11, 2023 8:32 pm

If they charge bag fees and cut pitch to 30" and assign seats, they can be just like the other legacies!
 
FlyingSicilian
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Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Wed Jan 11, 2023 8:41 pm

Chemist wrote:
If they charge bag fees and cut pitch to 30" and assign seats, they can be just like the other legacies!


And get people to their destinations in the same month!
 
USAirKid
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Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Wed Jan 11, 2023 11:19 pm

Chemist wrote:
If they charge bag fees and cut pitch to 30" and assign seats, they can be just like the other legacies!


And seat pitch is a bad metric. Cranky Flier did a podcast as to why: https://crankyflier.com/2022/12/20/a-ne ... r-legroom/

It won’t stop the Southwest fans from pushing seat pitch as the most important metric about seats.
 
sonnyr23
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Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Fri Jan 13, 2023 8:51 am

Read on Yahoo moments ago that there are Shareholders of Southwest who are filing class a class action lawsuit due to Gary Kelly when he was CEO not disclosing the technology problems and other issues as well that has devalued the stock price significantly.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Fri Jan 13, 2023 2:28 pm

USAirKid wrote:
Chemist wrote:
If they charge bag fees and cut pitch to 30" and assign seats, they can be just like the other legacies!


And seat pitch is a bad metric. Cranky Flier did a podcast as to why: https://crankyflier.com/2022/12/20/a-ne ... r-legroom/

It won’t stop the Southwest fans from pushing seat pitch as the most important metric about seats.


It's a bad metric, but wouldn't you agree that it's noticeably more spacious in the back of bus on a WN 738 than on an AA, DL, or UA 738?
 
UALFAson
Posts: 1284
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Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Fri Jan 13, 2023 4:08 pm

sonnyr23 wrote:
Read on Yahoo moments ago that there are Shareholders of Southwest who are filing class a class action lawsuit due to Gary Kelly when he was CEO not disclosing the technology problems and other issues as well that has devalued the stock price significantly.


Except the problem with that is the stock price has already recovered and shares are actually trading slightly above what they were before the meltdown. Guess Wall Street loves WN's refusal to commit to a big capex spend on a new IT system! More dividends and stock buybacks for everyone!
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Fri Jan 13, 2023 5:06 pm

Eolesen wrote:
I'm far from defending feckless incompetence as you put it. I'm just not blaming the infrastructure for it as so many other people seem to assume.

I've got no reason to support Southwest since I do work for a competitor. But I've also spent time supporting payments for a couple dozen airlines and it's not as simple as you might think. Maintaining an administering merchant bank relationships in a half dozen countries can be done from Dallas, but dealing with taxes and laws in a bunch of countries complicates matters more than it needs to be than if you simply force USD as the currency.

Perhaps a better question to answer is why Southwest should bear cost for the currency conversion, versus paying for it on a foreign issued credit card and the consumer eating the cost of the currency conversion?

The transaction fees at Southwest is paying on its domestic USD transactions is fractions of what they would be paying for lower volume transactions in the foreign currency.


You're rationalizing why WN continues to do same-old same-old, just as it did with way-outdated crew-rerouting practices.

Twenty-eight months ago Garry Kelly was quoted saying WN could add 50-70 new cities to the route network. (Cities - IAH and ORD don't count.) Supporting foreign currencies and POS will have to be part of that. So will lots of other changes. Whether they lack the software to do it, or choose not to do it, they're not doing it.

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... tions.html
 
Western727
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Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Fri Jan 13, 2023 6:27 pm

USAirKid wrote:
Chemist wrote:
If they charge bag fees and cut pitch to 30" and assign seats, they can be just like the other legacies!


And seat pitch is a bad metric. Cranky Flier did a podcast as to why: https://crankyflier.com/2022/12/20/a-ne ... r-legroom/

It won’t stop the Southwest fans from pushing seat pitch as the most important metric about seats.


Thank you for this! I haven't listened to the podcast yet - but is there an objective way to gauge leg room? This is very important for longer flights. I've been using SeatGuru but they use the seat pitch metric. I was fortunate to be able to fly Y+ on BA recently overseas, but will probably not want to spend the extra money to fly my family to Japan on Y+. I'm looking at SQ, JL and a couple others - SQ had only 9 across on the 777s which makes that a strong contender, but I'm curious about said objective legroom metric.
 
Western727
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Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Fri Jan 13, 2023 6:28 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
USAirKid wrote:
Chemist wrote:
If they charge bag fees and cut pitch to 30" and assign seats, they can be just like the other legacies!


And seat pitch is a bad metric. Cranky Flier did a podcast as to why: https://crankyflier.com/2022/12/20/a-ne ... r-legroom/

It won’t stop the Southwest fans from pushing seat pitch as the most important metric about seats.


It's a bad metric, but wouldn't you agree that it's noticeably more spacious in the back of bus on a WN 738 than on an AA, DL, or UA 738?


Yes, I agree it is.
 
USAirKid
Posts: 1575
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Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Fri Jan 13, 2023 7:23 pm

Western727 wrote:
USAirKid wrote:
Chemist wrote:
If they charge bag fees and cut pitch to 30" and assign seats, they can be just like the other legacies!


And seat pitch is a bad metric. Cranky Flier did a podcast as to why: https://crankyflier.com/2022/12/20/a-ne ... r-legroom/

It won’t stop the Southwest fans from pushing seat pitch as the most important metric about seats.


Thank you for this! I haven't listened to the podcast yet - but is there an objective way to gauge leg room? This is very important for longer flights. I've been using SeatGuru but they use the seat pitch metric. I was fortunate to be able to fly Y+ on BA recently overseas, but will probably not want to spend the extra money to fly my family to Japan on Y+. I'm looking at SQ, JL and a couple others - SQ had only 9 across on the 777s which makes that a strong contender, but I'm curious about said objective legroom metric.


If there a better metric, it isn’t published or standardized.
 
KarlB737
Posts: 3036
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Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Fri Jan 13, 2023 7:48 pm

sonnyr23 wrote:
Read on Yahoo moments ago that there are Shareholders of Southwest who are filing class a class action lawsuit due to Gary Kelly when he was CEO not disclosing the technology problems and other issues as well that has devalued the stock price significantly.


Courtesy: Fox Business Channel

Southwest Airlines Sued By Shareholders Following Operational Meltdown

"Southwest Airlines shareholders filed a lawsuit against the Texas-based carrier on Thursday, claiming that it downplayed and failed to disclose issues about outdated technology that left it vulnerable during adverse weather conditions."

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/southwest-airlines-sued-shareholders-following-operational-meltdown

And of equal importance have they or do they actually intend on updating the guilty technology or will they glide and hope this whole thing blows over.
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:04 pm

I think the outdated IT problems are being looked at all wrong. There’s no off the shelf fix here. People are talking like if they just buy new IT like it’s the latest iPhone after ignoring an eligible upgrade for years everything will be fixed. This goes much, much deeper.
 
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BMWdrvr75
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Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Sun Jan 15, 2023 11:54 pm

I worry this won’t be the last meltdown, and I am not to sure this Christmas meltdown will be the catalyst for change. Leadership seems tone deaf to the serious fixes that need to happen at WN. It seems business as usual, the I am sorry to the customers and we love our employees playbook came out and was executed like clockwork. Let’s sweep this last meltdown under the rug and continue our pickle ball practice at headquarters. Running the largest domestic carrier in the United States can be ran just like a small regional airline like we have been doing for 51 years….Move along, nothing to see here.
Last edited by BMWdrvr75 on Mon Jan 16, 2023 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Western727
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Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Mon Jan 16, 2023 3:07 pm

BMWdrvr75 wrote:
I worry this won’t be the last meltdown, and I am not to sure this Christmas meltdown will be the catalyst for change. Leadership seems tone deaf to the serious fixes that need to happen at WN. It seems business as usual, the I am sorry to the customers and we love our employees playbook came out and was executed like clockwork. Let’s sweep this last meltdown under the rug and continue our pickle ball practice at headquarters. Running the largest domestic carrier in the United States can be ran just like a small regional airline like we have been doing for 51 years….Move along, nothing to see here.


I share your concern as a longtime customer and credit card holder. And I hope we’re both proven wrong down the road. I say this because this wasn’t your garden-variety IRROPs event lasting a day or two; countless people’s holiday plans were wiped out. We happened to fly UA this time and I feel extremely fortunate because it was an extra-special holidays for a couple of reasons in my family. I’d have been livid if we had to cancel the whole thing.

There were no doubt many who had bigger reasons (someone about to die of a terminal disease, someone returned from military service, etc).

And most of us here know about the shareholder lawsuit mentioned unthread. Fingers crossed that they’ll truly fix things.
 
385441
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Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Mon Jan 16, 2023 3:56 pm

BMWdrvr75 wrote:
I worry this won’t be the last meltdown, and I am not to sure this Christmas meltdown will be the catalyst for change. Leadership seems tone deaf to the serious fixes that need to happen at WN. It seems business as usual, the I am sorry to the customers and we love our employees playbook came out and was executed like clockwork. Let’s sweep this last meltdown under the rug and continue our pickle ball practice at headquarters. Running the largest domestic carrier in the United States can be ran just like a small regional airline like we have been doing for 51 years….Move along, nothing to see here.


I share your concern. I used to be a very loyal WN customer but around 2008 into the early 2010s they stared to become unreliable. A plane would still be in Dallas 45 minuets past departure time and an agent in Amarillo would smile and tell me we would be on time and the tight connection they sold me was still good. I had stuff like that happen multiple times where I’d see a problem coming but I couldn’t get them to help solve it before it turned into a thing. I remember flying them SAT-DEN and back in late 2008. When I checked in at DEN I could really tell a difference and thought “this doesn’t feel like the Southwest I know.” That turned out to be a glimpse into the future.

I find their customer service to be friendly but robotic. They are stuck in their “bags fly free,” “heartfelt,” “luv,” “biggest domestic airline” rut. They just say “we’re the best and you should be thankful you’re flying on us.” They’re not good at solving problems. A smile and a joke is ok sometimes, but not when they’ve wrecked your travel plans. It seems like everyone from the board room down is so infatuated with the way WN is run, that they have blinders on. They can’t see that you can’t run a domestic mega carrier like you run a regional airline.

I also agree with those that have said that this isn’t ALL (though it is a major factor) tech. The week after the meltdown the Airlines Confidential podcast directed the problem and opined that Southwest’s route structure, which is basically a giant network of “milk runs” will be come increasingly vulnerable to this type of melt down simply because as the airline gets bigger and bigger, this type of operation becomes unwieldy. That gets exacerbated when you are trying to keep track of it almost manually and then a major event shuts part of the network down.
 
rumorboy
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Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Mon Jan 16, 2023 4:28 pm

Part of the problem was close in cancellations. Their is not a single platform they can buy that would handle that many cancellations within the timeframe that they were canceling flights. That’s why most airlines pre cancel way out when they know major disruptions to the network are going to happen. Most of the network carriers recovered within three days or so. SWA did not pre cancel enough flights. The more time they have to run solutions to reroute airplanes, passengers and crews, the better chance of recovery within the network. Their decision matrix that the SOD’s use definitely needs to be changed. Obviously some tech needs resources and solutions to that need to be modified. Tech is not the whole problem. The decision making process needs to be reviewed. SWA has had many disruptions before but the scale of this one is mind blowing. It will show on the January 26th when they report earnings or lack their of.
 
ChetManly24
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Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:24 am

May not have to look too far out…DIA in the path for a 6-12 inch one day snow storm Wednesday.
 
SRQLOT
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Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:38 am

Is it just me or are WN cabin crew doing less and less on flights (provide drinks and snacks), or is it just on the west coast?? And I mean due to the risk of turbulence, since moving to SLC it seems most of my flights by WN I had no service, not even a walk thru till it was time to land. Example I flew this past weekend and one flight was shaky most of the flight so I understand the safety reason. But my second 1h 40m flight was shaky first 10-15 min, and then not even a walk thru by the cabin crew until it was time to land. Now living in TPA/STQ area I can count only twice I had no service, other times even during light turbulence or right after the cabin crew came thru.
 
Flflyer83
Posts: 407
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Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:18 am

SRQLOT wrote:
Is it just me or are WN cabin crew doing less and less on flights (provide drinks and snacks), or is it just on the west coast?? And I mean due to the risk of turbulence, since moving to SLC it seems most of my flights by WN I had no service, not even a walk thru till it was time to land. Example I flew this past weekend and one flight was shaky most of the flight so I understand the safety reason. But my second 1h 40m flight was shaky first 10-15 min, and then not even a walk thru by the cabin crew until it was time to land. Now living in TPA/STQ area I can count only twice I had no service, other times even during light turbulence or right after the cabin crew came thru.


If the captain says no service, then there is no service. Flight attendants don’t decide if there is or isn’t going to be a service.
 
385441
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:29 am

SRQLOT wrote:
Is it just me or are WN cabin crew doing less and less on flights (provide drinks and snacks), or is it just on the west coast?? And I mean due to the risk of turbulence, since moving to SLC it seems most of my flights by WN I had no service, not even a walk thru till it was time to land. Example I flew this past weekend and one flight was shaky most of the flight so I understand the safety reason. But my second 1h 40m flight was shaky first 10-15 min, and then not even a walk thru by the cabin crew until it was time to land. Now living in TPA/STQ area I can count only twice I had no service, other times even during light turbulence or right after the cabin crew came thru.


Not just you. They pull that stunt all the time here in Texas. I’ve also had Southwest flights to/fromthrough through Texas where the FA will say “I really hope you don’t want anything to drink” and “you don’t want anything do you” followed by a put upon “well I’ll try” with a sigh and an eye roll at every row. One of my favorites was a through flight with a crew change. When the new (LAS based) crew came on at DAL one of the three (not so quietly) said “I don’t want to do a service on this flight.” The other two agreed and sure enough, when we got airborne they got in the PA and said “we’ll take care of you next time.”

I’m not talking about when the Captain says “no service due to expected turbulence,” these are FAs griping/not wanting to.
Last edited by 385441 on Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
planecane
Posts: 2036
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Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:29 am

Flflyer83 wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:
Is it just me or are WN cabin crew doing less and less on flights (provide drinks and snacks), or is it just on the west coast?? And I mean due to the risk of turbulence, since moving to SLC it seems most of my flights by WN I had no service, not even a walk thru till it was time to land. Example I flew this past weekend and one flight was shaky most of the flight so I understand the safety reason. But my second 1h 40m flight was shaky first 10-15 min, and then not even a walk thru by the cabin crew until it was time to land. Now living in TPA/STQ area I can count only twice I had no service, other times even during light turbulence or right after the cabin crew came thru.


If the captain says no service, then there is no service. Flight attendants don’t decide if there is or isn’t going to be a service.


In my experience, southwest captains are MUCH quicker to have flight attendants be seated than any other airline. Many times it happens with VERY light bumps. If I'm on AA and the captain asks flight attendants to be seated I know if will get pretty bumpy and I tighten my seatbelt. It happens so often on southwest that I don't expect anything strong enough to spill my drink if the cup is full.
 
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piedmontf284000
Posts: 617
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Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:07 am

SRQLOT wrote:
Is it just me or are WN cabin crew doing less and less on flights (provide drinks and snacks), or is it just on the west coast?? And I mean due to the risk of turbulence, since moving to SLC it seems most of my flights by WN I had no service, not even a walk thru till it was time to land. Example I flew this past weekend and one flight was shaky most of the flight so I understand the safety reason. But my second 1h 40m flight was shaky first 10-15 min, and then not even a walk thru by the cabin crew until it was time to land. Now living in TPA/STQ area I can count only twice I had no service, other times even during light turbulence or right after the cabin crew came thru.


It is becoming the norm. Four flights in two weeks and three of them no drink service. One flight, we were told up front no service due to turbulence and we had not even taken off yet (ORD-BNA). The taxi to the runway was more bumpy then the flight, and the FA's stayed "in their seats" the whole time, which was comical, because the captain actually turned the seatbelt sign off for nearly 30 minutes. I went to the bathroom and the FA's were in the gallery chit-chatting with each other.

Tonight same thing, and the FA's literally told us the passengers to check our neighbors for seatbelts and to make sure their tray tables and seats were up. Don't really care about missing out on 50 cent can of coke but not having an FA not come thru before landing for safety measures and relying on us to do it is ridiculous. The captain can say whatever he or she (if I am even allowed to use those pronouns in 2023) likes but if we are doing this in January with "turbulent" weather then I dare think what the summer will be like.
 
midway7
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Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 10:24 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:54 pm

When I worked for an airline at PDX on the west coast (not SW), we used to be told many times by crew to make an announcement at the gate prior to boarding that due to WX the pax would most likely be seated the entire flight and to be sure they brought any service items they would like and to use the rest room prior to boarding.
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:50 pm

rumorboy wrote:
Part of the problem was close in cancellations. Their is not a single platform they can buy that would handle that many cancellations within the timeframe that they were canceling flights. That’s why most airlines pre cancel way out when they know major disruptions to the network are going to happen. Most of the network carriers recovered within three days or so. SWA did not pre cancel enough flights. The more time they have to run solutions to reroute airplanes, passengers and crews, the better chance of recovery within the network. Their decision matrix that the SOD’s use definitely needs to be changed. Obviously some tech needs resources and solutions to that need to be modified. Tech is not the whole problem. The decision making process needs to be reviewed. SWA has had many disruptions before but the scale of this one is mind blowing. It will show on the January 26th when they report earnings or lack their of.


One move that WN needs to make is to add daily nonstop service to AUS/HOU/LAS/PHX from more WN destinations as AUS/HOU/LAS/PHX are in warmer weather climates during the wintertime that rarely face winter weather-related cancellations whereas MDW/DEN are in colder weather climates during the wintertime that face winter weather-related cancellations more frequently than places like AUS/HOU/LAS/PHX.

Having daily WN nonstop service to AUS/HOU/LAS/PHX from more WN destinations would also allow WN to more easily recover from winter weather-related cancellations as WN would be able to more easily re-accommodate connecting passengers if WN had daily nonstop service to AUS/HOU/LAS/PHX from more destinations.

WN was also considering adding more nonstop routes out of LAS (in addition to the existing WN nonstop routes out of LAS) prior to the Christmas 2022 meltdown according to an article at https://simpleflying.com/southwest-airl ... expansion/.
 
Atlwest1
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:11 am

Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:51 pm

I can say this, industry wide the amount of flight attendants who have been injured from turbulence related events has increased exponentially. Many companies have said to the flight attendants, if the pilots tell you to sit, or to not do service at all and you do not follow that and are injured you will be on your own. Also most pilots will not risk an incident for the sake of a drink and pretzels, because they do have to answer if a crew member gets hurt do to turbulence. Believe me most flight attendants would rather get service done than to sit the entire flight. Their are many dynamics at play that as a passenger, you might not be aware of. Sometimes all you have to do is ask nicely and they will usually divulge what the situation is or why they won't.

To the comment about how ghastly and terrible it was that the flight attendants didn't do final safety checks of the passengers, again if they are given information not to do the check and to sit or there is turbulence etc then they will not do it. That is usually very rareish. Not everything is about being lazy or being mean or unprofessional. As a passenger their is so much you don't know that is happening behind the scenes, as I said before just simply ask the crew nicely or you can even after the flight go up and talk to the captain about their decision to seat the crew. Generally they will show you all the source info.
 
Maddog88Lover
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:24 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:25 pm

This could be because of WN FA services the drinks on the tray, not the rolling cart like other airlines. Even little bumps on the flight make this more challenge for them to carrying the 16 cups of full liquid down the aisle. This is completely opposite from on the still land restaurants where servicer can carry a dozen 20oz mugs of beer to the table.

Speaking of in flight service, the cutback on IFS is noticeable as I recalled they gave out the 3 different kind of snacks during pre-pandemic. (Pretzels, Cheezit, and Chex-mix) Since ever after the pandemic, they are down to one snack: Chex-mix. Not that I am disappointed as I do not care very much about WN's snacks. Their snacks selection always have been subpar anyway...
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 988
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:29 pm

I definitely understand the safety aspect of the cabin crew needing to sit during turbulence. I’m only putting this out there because I do sense a change has been happening and not just because of the December disaster. I wasn’t sure if that was because of SLC being in the mountainous area or just overall everywhere. One thing for sure, the friendliness is deteriorating, A man in my row hit the attendant button and asked for a carbonated water for his upset stomach , one flight attendant brought it to him, while another chewed him out over the speaker.
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 988
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Tue Jan 17, 2023 3:56 pm

I still like Soutwest, but since moving to Salt Lake City i have made few observations and not just me. So I made few friends here and funny enough 2 couples were from Florida. The couple that lived here for 7 years gave up their Southwest credit card few years ago and the couple that moved here before me is planning to give up theirs too. All of them say they same thing “Southwest here is not the same as Southwest in Florida (east coast)”. My partner is cancelling is Southwest Credit card after he uses up his 25,000 point gift lol.

Honestly though, having forgotten my bottle of water at the gate flying SLC to MDW and not getting any water is rough. It’s one thing if it’s a 1 hour flight but not 3. Trying to fly them to Florida is a challenge too price wise and schedule wise. So yeah. I might be changing my alliances at one point. And for the most part I’m loyal to AA and WN.
 
SWADawg
Posts: 831
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:43 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:38 pm

SRQLOT wrote:
I still like Soutwest, but since moving to Salt Lake City i have made few observations and not just me. So I made few friends here and funny enough 2 couples were from Florida. The couple that lived here for 7 years gave up their Southwest credit card few years ago and the couple that moved here before me is planning to give up theirs too. All of them say they same thing “Southwest here is not the same as Southwest in Florida (east coast)”. My partner is cancelling is Southwest Credit card after he uses up his 25,000 point gift lol.

Honestly though, having forgotten my bottle of water at the gate flying SLC to MDW and not getting any water is rough. It’s one thing if it’s a 1 hour flight but not 3. Trying to fly them to Florida is a challenge too price wise and schedule wise. So yeah. I might be changing my alliances at one point. And for the most part I’m loyal to AA and WN.

I’m sorry this happened to you on such a long flight. When I’m flying, I will usually brief the Flight Attendants to stay seated if it’s going to be rough on climbout. Once at cruise, I look at all the turbulence plots ahead of us and try to get ride reports before I cut them loose. I have let them serve and then we start hitting some bumps and they immediately call me and tell me they’re going to sit. I never have an issue with that because I don’t want anyone getting hurt just to get a drink service out. That said, if I sense that there is a crew that just doesn’t want to do a service no matter what the ride is like, I always push back. If they still insist on sitting, I turn the seat belt sign off and make a PA that everyone is free to move about the cabin. That usually does the trick and the flight attendants seem to get the message. I’m really big on customer service, but never at the expense of crew safety. Hopefully that helps give you an inside baseball look at how we determine whether to serve on a flight or not. Oh and one other little tidbit. Call it climate change or whatever you want, the rides and turbulence we’ve had this winter specifically has been worse and more frequent than I’ve had in previous winters, so the chances of a crew being forced to sit for a flight that you might be on are definitely higher than they’ve been in the past.
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 988
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:28 pm

SWADawg wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:
I still like Soutwest, but since moving to Salt Lake City i have made few observations and not just me. So I made few friends here and funny enough 2 couples were from Florida. The couple that lived here for 7 years gave up their Southwest credit card few years ago and the couple that moved here before me is planning to give up theirs too. All of them say they same thing “Southwest here is not the same as Southwest in Florida (east coast)”. My partner is cancelling is Southwest Credit card after he uses up his 25,000 point gift lol.

Honestly though, having forgotten my bottle of water at the gate flying SLC to MDW and not getting any water is rough. It’s one thing if it’s a 1 hour flight but not 3. Trying to fly them to Florida is a challenge too price wise and schedule wise. So yeah. I might be changing my alliances at one point. And for the most part I’m loyal to AA and WN.

I’m sorry this happened to you on such a long flight. When I’m flying, I will usually brief the Flight Attendants to stay seated if it’s going to be rough on climbout. Once at cruise, I look at all the turbulence plots ahead of us and try to get ride reports before I cut them loose. I have let them serve and then we start hitting some bumps and they immediately call me and tell me they’re going to sit. I never have an issue with that because I don’t want anyone getting hurt just to get a drink service out. That said, if I sense that there is a crew that just doesn’t want to do a service no matter what the ride is like, I always push back. If they still insist on sitting, I turn the seat belt sign off and make a PA that everyone is free to move about the cabin. That usually does the trick and the flight attendants seem to get the message. I’m really big on customer service, but never at the expense of crew safety. Hopefully that helps give you an inside baseball look at how we determine whether to serve on a flight or not. Oh and one other little tidbit. Call it climate change or whatever you want, the rides and turbulence we’ve had this winter specifically has been worse and more frequent than I’ve had in previous winters, so the chances of a crew being forced to sit for a flight that you might be on are definitely higher than they’ve been in the past.



Thanks for the reply! I hope everyone knows I don’t judge an airline just by one flight. And what you are explaining happened so many times of flights too and from Florida. Sometimes the seatbelt sign come on and off multiple times during a flight and the cabin crew worked around that. On the west coast originating flights it is seatbelt on the whole flight.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1781
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Tue Jan 17, 2023 7:55 pm

Eolesen wrote:
And they are also set up to charge bag fees, change fees, and every other ancillary that the big boy airlines do.

For those demanding that Southwest grow up, be very careful for what you ask for.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk


If they keep imploding their operation they will need those fees to try and narrow the losses.
 
385441
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:55 pm

AMALH747430 wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:
Is it just me or are WN cabin crew doing less and less on flights (provide drinks and snacks), or is it just on the west coast?? And I mean due to the risk of turbulence, since moving to SLC it seems most of my flights by WN I had no service, not even a walk thru till it was time to land. Example I flew this past weekend and one flight was shaky most of the flight so I understand the safety reason. But my second 1h 40m flight was shaky first 10-15 min, and then not even a walk thru by the cabin crew until it was time to land. Now living in TPA/STQ area I can count only twice I had no service, other times even during light turbulence or right after the cabin crew came thru.


Not just you. They pull that stunt all the time here in Texas. I’ve also had Southwest flights to/fromthrough through Texas where the FA will say “I really hope you don’t want anything to drink” and “you don’t want anything do you” followed by a put upon “well I’ll try” with a sigh and an eye roll at every row. One of my favorites was a through flight with a crew change. When the new (LAS based) crew came on at DAL one of the three (not so quietly) said “I don’t want to do a service on this flight.” The other two agreed and sure enough, when we got airborne they got in the PA and said “we’ll take care of you next time.”

I’m not talking about when the Captain says “no service due to expected turbulence,” these are FAs griping/not wanting to.


First off, I want to be clear that I am not talking about situations where the cockpit crew declares serving passengers to be unsafe. The situations I talked about above, and the ones I’m going to talk about below are Southwest FA’s not wanting to serve.

Around 2016 I was flying AMA-DAL-SAT (old Southwest bread and butter routes) through flight. The BWI based crew on the AMA-DAL sector complained the whole way about how short the flight was and how it was impossible to serve everyone. I thought this odd as I grew up flying WN (first flight as an unaccompanied minor was SAT-HOU-MSY) back in 1994) and flew their intra Texas routes (SAT-DAL, DAL-LBB, DAL-AMA, LBB-AUS, SAT-HOU, DAL-HOU/IAH, DAL-AUS etc…) countless times and I’d never seen this happen though I’d been noticing the FA’s struggle to get the service done recently before that flight. At DAL there was a crew change and a local cabin crew got on. Like I’d seen many times before, the FA working my section got her pad out and took orders before we took off. She got us served with time to spare. I told her about the previous sector. She shook her had and said that their newer hire FAs, particularly the ones that are based on the coasts, are not used to working bread and butter short haul routes (intra TX, CA, etc…) and don’t take the time/effort to figure out how to make it work like the veteran DAL and HOU based FA’s do. She was very annoyed with the way those crews treat those flights.

Later on, I asked a co-worker who used to be a Southwest FA about it. He said the same thing. He said he even had a system worked out to get a service done on the short BUR-LAS flights.

I suspect that this has been exacerbated because many of the more seasoned crews took buyouts during the pandemic, leaving the more junior crews that weren’t “raised” on WN’s intra-Texas short haul flights.

The 73G’s with the slimline seats only have 6 more seats total (2 per FA) than the 737-300s did (143 vs 137) so it’s not an increased aircraft capacity issue.

WN is basically just another big airline these days. They have different marketing ploys that AA, DL, and UA, but their employees aren’t any friendlier than those at the other major airlines. It’s not like the “old days” when WN was a scrappy, eccentric regional LCC. It doesn’t have the same personality it used to, and neither do the employees. That’s to be expected when a company gets that big.
 
gdavis003
Posts: 1751
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:59 am

Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Tue Jan 17, 2023 9:02 pm

To my total surprise, I saw two Desert Gold Southwest jets, both heavily parted out, when driving by BHM today. I was nearly positive that N711HK was broken up, since it did not seem like they were storing any in hangars. N714CB has been outside for the last few months. However, the second tail means that N711HK is still alive but in a partially scrapped state. Certainly not going to fly again, but I absolutely thought it was gone. Didn't have my camera but got a picture on my phone.
Image
 
Jshank83
Posts: 6064
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Tue Jan 17, 2023 9:14 pm

AMALH747430 wrote:
AMALH747430 wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:
Is it just me or are WN cabin crew doing less and less on flights (provide drinks and snacks), or is it just on the west coast?? And I mean due to the risk of turbulence, since moving to SLC it seems most of my flights by WN I had no service, not even a walk thru till it was time to land. Example I flew this past weekend and one flight was shaky most of the flight so I understand the safety reason. But my second 1h 40m flight was shaky first 10-15 min, and then not even a walk thru by the cabin crew until it was time to land. Now living in TPA/STQ area I can count only twice I had no service, other times even during light turbulence or right after the cabin crew came thru.


Not just you. They pull that stunt all the time here in Texas. I’ve also had Southwest flights to/fromthrough through Texas where the FA will say “I really hope you don’t want anything to drink” and “you don’t want anything do you” followed by a put upon “well I’ll try” with a sigh and an eye roll at every row. One of my favorites was a through flight with a crew change. When the new (LAS based) crew came on at DAL one of the three (not so quietly) said “I don’t want to do a service on this flight.” The other two agreed and sure enough, when we got airborne they got in the PA and said “we’ll take care of you next time.”

I’m not talking about when the Captain says “no service due to expected turbulence,” these are FAs griping/not wanting to.


First off, I want to be clear that I am not talking about situations where the cockpit crew declares serving passengers to be unsafe. The situations I talked about above, and the ones I’m going to talk about below are Southwest FA’s not wanting to serve.

Around 2016 I was flying AMA-DAL-SAT (old Southwest bread and butter routes) through flight. The BWI based crew on the AMA-DAL sector complained the whole way about how short the flight was and how it was impossible to serve everyone. I thought this odd as I grew up flying WN (first flight as an unaccompanied minor was SAT-HOU-MSY) back in 1994) and flew their intra Texas routes (SAT-DAL, DAL-LBB, DAL-AMA, LBB-AUS, SAT-HOU, DAL-HOU/IAH, DAL-AUS etc…) countless times and I’d never seen this happen though I’d been noticing the FA’s struggle to get the service done recently before that flight. At DAL there was a crew change and a local cabin crew got on. Like I’d seen many times before, the FA working my section got her pad out and took orders before we took off. She got us served with time to spare. I told her about the previous sector. She shook her had and said that their newer hire FAs, particularly the ones that are based on the coasts, are not used to working bread and butter short haul routes (intra TX, CA, etc…) and don’t take the time/effort to figure out how to make it work like the veteran DAL and HOU based FA’s do. She was very annoyed with the way those crews treat those flights.

Later on, I asked a co-worker who used to be a Southwest FA about it. He said the same thing. He said he even had a system worked out to get a service done on the short BUR-LAS flights.

I suspect that this has been exacerbated because many of the more seasoned crews took buyouts during the pandemic, leaving the more junior crews that weren’t “raised” on WN’s intra-Texas short haul flights.

The 73G’s with the slimline seats only have 6 more seats total (2 per FA) than the 737-300s did (143 vs 137) so it’s not an increased aircraft capacity issue.

WN is basically just another big airline these days. They have different marketing ploys that AA, DL, and UA, but their employees aren’t any friendlier than those at the other major airlines. It’s not like the “old days” when WN was a scrappy, eccentric regional LCC. It doesn’t have the same personality it used to, and neither do the employees. That’s to be expected when a company gets that big.


I've had service done on island hops in Hawaii, which actually surprised me, so anything on the mainland should be doable, even if its just water/coffee service. I feel like like STL-MDW it never gets done anymore, but maybe I just have been on unlucky flights, and I do recognize weather can come into play on that route.

But being honest the short hop no service really isn't a huge deal to me. I would rather have a 2nd come thru on the 3+ hour flights, which I greatly appreciate when it happens. Doesn't need to be a full service like the first but a "Do you need anything else?" type thing. It isn't a huge deal going to the back myself to order another drink, I just feel like I am bothering them when I do that even if they are just playing a game on their ipad. They usually are accommodating about it, just would be nice to have a 2nd round on longer flights.

I think most of the time they do a good job, this is mostly me being nitpicky.
 
Vctony
Posts: 863
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 1999 10:51 am

Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Tue Jan 17, 2023 9:33 pm

One of my last WN flights was TUL - DAL back in early September and there was service. I haven't experienced the no service on short hops on WN yet.
 
Flflyer83
Posts: 407
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:40 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Tue Jan 17, 2023 11:44 pm

AMALH747430 wrote:
AMALH747430 wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:
Is it just me or are WN cabin crew doing less and less on flights (provide drinks and snacks), or is it just on the west coast?? And I mean due to the risk of turbulence, since moving to SLC it seems most of my flights by WN I had no service, not even a walk thru till it was time to land. Example I flew this past weekend and one flight was shaky most of the flight so I understand the safety reason. But my second 1h 40m flight was shaky first 10-15 min, and then not even a walk thru by the cabin crew until it was time to land. Now living in TPA/STQ area I can count only twice I had no service, other times even during light turbulence or right after the cabin crew came thru.



Not just you. They pull that stunt all the time here in Texas. I’ve also had Southwest flights to/fromthrough through Texas where the FA will say “I really hope you don’t want anything to drink” and “you don’t want anything do you” followed by a put upon “well I’ll try” with a sigh and an eye roll at every row. One of my favorites was a through flight with a crew change. When the new (LAS based) crew came on at DAL one of the three (not so quietly) said “I don’t want to do a service on this flight.” The other two agreed and sure enough, when we got airborne they got in the PA and said “we’ll take care of you next time.”

I’m not talking about when the Captain says “no service due to expected turbulence,” these are FAs griping/not wanting to.


First off, I want to be clear that I am not talking about situations where the cockpit crew declares serving passengers to be unsafe. The situations I talked about above, and the ones I’m going to talk about below are Southwest FA’s not wanting to serve.

Around 2016 I was flying AMA-DAL-SAT (old Southwest bread and butter routes) through flight. The BWI based crew on the AMA-DAL sector complained the whole way about how short the flight was and how it was impossible to serve everyone. I thought this odd as I grew up flying WN (first flight as an unaccompanied minor was SAT-HOU-MSY) back in 1994) and flew their intra Texas routes (SAT-DAL, DAL-LBB, DAL-AMA, LBB-AUS, SAT-HOU, DAL-HOU/IAH, DAL-AUS etc…) countless times and I’d never seen this happen though I’d been noticing the FA’s struggle to get the service done recently before that flight. At DAL there was a crew change and a local cabin crew got on. Like I’d seen many times before, the FA working my section got her pad out and took orders before we took off. She got us served with time to spare. I told her about the previous sector. She shook her had and said that their newer hire FAs, particularly the ones that are based on the coasts, are not used to working bread and butter short haul routes (intra TX, CA, etc…) and don’t take the time/effort to figure out how to make it work like the veteran DAL and HOU based FA’s do. She was very annoyed with the way those crews treat those flights.

Later on, I asked a co-worker who used to be a Southwest FA about it. He said the same thing. He said he even had a system worked out to get a service done on the short BUR-LAS flights.

I suspect that this has been exacerbated because many of the more seasoned crews took buyouts during the pandemic, leaving the more junior crews that weren’t “raised” on WN’s intra-Texas short haul flights.

The 73G’s with the slimline seats only have 6 more seats total (2 per FA) than the 737-300s did (143 vs 137) so it’s not an increased aircraft capacity issue.

WN is basically just another big airline these days. They have different marketing ploys that AA, DL, and UA, but their employees aren’t any friendlier than those at the other major airlines. It’s not like the “old days” when WN was a scrappy, eccentric regional LCC. It doesn’t have the same personality it used to, and neither do the employees. That’s to be expected when a company gets that big.


Things that WN flight attendants used to do that they shouldn’t have been doing before and aren’t supposed to do now…

— Take drink orders while on the ground after forward entry door was closed
— Get up from the jumpseats prior to reaching 10,000 feet and a safe walking attitude to take orders/start prepping the galley
— Prefill cups with ice/stage the trays with iced cups
— Have the assistance of jumpseat riders while the seatbelt sign is on
— Have a menu of mixed cocktails and drinks that passengers stare at for minutes on end and then order multiple drinks

If you have a situation that you find unsatisfactory, write a letter to southwest/submit it on their website. The flight attendants supervisor sees each one and then the crew has to file an official response to their supervisor and it is placed and in their employee file.
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 988
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:44 am

Flflyer83 wrote:
AMALH747430 wrote:
AMALH747430 wrote:


Not just you. They pull that stunt all the time here in Texas. I’ve also had Southwest flights to/fromthrough through Texas where the FA will say “I really hope you don’t want anything to drink” and “you don’t want anything do you” followed by a put upon “well I’ll try” with a sigh and an eye roll at every row. One of my favorites was a through flight with a crew change. When the new (LAS based) crew came on at DAL one of the three (not so quietly) said “I don’t want to do a service on this flight.” The other two agreed and sure enough, when we got airborne they got in the PA and said “we’ll take care of you next time.”

I’m not talking about when the Captain says “no service due to expected turbulence,” these are FAs griping/not wanting to.


First off, I want to be clear that I am not talking about situations where the cockpit crew declares serving passengers to be unsafe. The situations I talked about above, and the ones I’m going to talk about below are Southwest FA’s not wanting to serve.

Around 2016 I was flying AMA-DAL-SAT (old Southwest bread and butter routes) through flight. The BWI based crew on the AMA-DAL sector complained the whole way about how short the flight was and how it was impossible to serve everyone. I thought this odd as I grew up flying WN (first flight as an unaccompanied minor was SAT-HOU-MSY) back in 1994) and flew their intra Texas routes (SAT-DAL, DAL-LBB, DAL-AMA, LBB-AUS, SAT-HOU, DAL-HOU/IAH, DAL-AUS etc…) countless times and I’d never seen this happen though I’d been noticing the FA’s struggle to get the service done recently before that flight. At DAL there was a crew change and a local cabin crew got on. Like I’d seen many times before, the FA working my section got her pad out and took orders before we took off. She got us served with time to spare. I told her about the previous sector. She shook her had and said that their newer hire FAs, particularly the ones that are based on the coasts, are not used to working bread and butter short haul routes (intra TX, CA, etc…) and don’t take the time/effort to figure out how to make it work like the veteran DAL and HOU based FA’s do. She was very annoyed with the way those crews treat those flights.

Later on, I asked a co-worker who used to be a Southwest FA about it. He said the same thing. He said he even had a system worked out to get a service done on the short BUR-LAS flights.

I suspect that this has been exacerbated because many of the more seasoned crews took buyouts during the pandemic, leaving the more junior crews that weren’t “raised” on WN’s intra-Texas short haul flights.

The 73G’s with the slimline seats only have 6 more seats total (2 per FA) than the 737-300s did (143 vs 137) so it’s not an increased aircraft capacity issue.

WN is basically just another big airline these days. They have different marketing ploys that AA, DL, and UA, but their employees aren’t any friendlier than those at the other major airlines. It’s not like the “old days” when WN was a scrappy, eccentric regional LCC. It doesn’t have the same personality it used to, and neither do the employees. That’s to be expected when a company gets that big.


Things that WN flight attendants used to do that they shouldn’t have been doing before and aren’t supposed to do now…

— Take drink orders while on the ground after forward entry door was closed
— Get up from the jumpseats prior to reaching 10,000 feet and a safe walking attitude to take orders/start prepping the galley
— Prefill cups with ice/stage the trays with iced cups
— Have the assistance of jumpseat riders while the seatbelt sign is on
— Have a menu of mixed cocktails and drinks that passengers stare at for minutes on end and then order multiple drinks

If you have a situation that you find unsatisfactory, write a letter to southwest/submit it on their website. The flight attendants supervisor sees each one and then the crew has to file an official response to their supervisor and it is placed and in their employee file.


Oh believe me. I hate that cabin crew do not get paid before the door closes! One of the reasons I never tried to be an FA. Should not have to work for free, at the same time once the clock is on I expect to see work. At my job before 8am, forget it I will not lift a finger, once 8am hits Im running and I work my ass off till 5pm or later.

And I have put it in my surveys, just as I hit AA for not having in seat entertainment and wifi not working :rotfl:
 
385441
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Wed Jan 18, 2023 4:27 am

Flflyer83 wrote:
AMALH747430 wrote:
AMALH747430 wrote:


Not just you. They pull that stunt all the time here in Texas. I’ve also had Southwest flights to/fromthrough through Texas where the FA will say “I really hope you don’t want anything to drink” and “you don’t want anything do you” followed by a put upon “well I’ll try” with a sigh and an eye roll at every row. One of my favorites was a through flight with a crew change. When the new (LAS based) crew came on at DAL one of the three (not so quietly) said “I don’t want to do a service on this flight.” The other two agreed and sure enough, when we got airborne they got in the PA and said “we’ll take care of you next time.”

I’m not talking about when the Captain says “no service due to expected turbulence,” these are FAs griping/not wanting to.


First off, I want to be clear that I am not talking about situations where the cockpit crew declares serving passengers to be unsafe. The situations I talked about above, and the ones I’m going to talk about below are Southwest FA’s not wanting to serve.

Around 2016 I was flying AMA-DAL-SAT (old Southwest bread and butter routes) through flight. The BWI based crew on the AMA-DAL sector complained the whole way about how short the flight was and how it was impossible to serve everyone. I thought this odd as I grew up flying WN (first flight as an unaccompanied minor was SAT-HOU-MSY) back in 1994) and flew their intra Texas routes (SAT-DAL, DAL-LBB, DAL-AMA, LBB-AUS, SAT-HOU, DAL-HOU/IAH, DAL-AUS etc…) countless times and I’d never seen this happen though I’d been noticing the FA’s struggle to get the service done recently before that flight. At DAL there was a crew change and a local cabin crew got on. Like I’d seen many times before, the FA working my section got her pad out and took orders before we took off. She got us served with time to spare. I told her about the previous sector. She shook her had and said that their newer hire FAs, particularly the ones that are based on the coasts, are not used to working bread and butter short haul routes (intra TX, CA, etc…) and don’t take the time/effort to figure out how to make it work like the veteran DAL and HOU based FA’s do. She was very annoyed with the way those crews treat those flights.

Later on, I asked a co-worker who used to be a Southwest FA about it. He said the same thing. He said he even had a system worked out to get a service done on the short BUR-LAS flights.

I suspect that this has been exacerbated because many of the more seasoned crews took buyouts during the pandemic, leaving the more junior crews that weren’t “raised” on WN’s intra-Texas short haul flights.

The 73G’s with the slimline seats only have 6 more seats total (2 per FA) than the 737-300s did (143 vs 137) so it’s not an increased aircraft capacity issue.

WN is basically just another big airline these days. They have different marketing ploys that AA, DL, and UA, but their employees aren’t any friendlier than those at the other major airlines. It’s not like the “old days” when WN was a scrappy, eccentric regional LCC. It doesn’t have the same personality it used to, and neither do the employees. That’s to be expected when a company gets that big.


Things that WN flight attendants used to do that they shouldn’t have been doing before and aren’t supposed to do now…

— Take drink orders while on the ground after forward entry door was closed
— Get up from the jumpseats prior to reaching 10,000 feet and a safe walking attitude to take orders/start prepping the galley
— Prefill cups with ice/stage the trays with iced cups
— Have the assistance of jumpseat riders while the seatbelt sign is on
— Have a menu of mixed cocktails and drinks that passengers stare at for minutes on end and then order multiple drinks

If you have a situation that you find unsatisfactory, write a letter to southwest/submit it on their website. The flight attendants supervisor sees each one and then the crew has to file an official response to their supervisor and it is placed and in their employee file.


I did that a couple of times, they apologized profusely and sent vouchers, then I’d have trouble on the next trip (I’m not talking just about in cabin service), so I did one better, switched airlines. Voting with your wallet does more than writing in. Haven’t flown Southwest in over a year and it’s been over 3 years since I used them with any regularity. Became a happy Platinum on UA then a happy Platinum Pro on AA after moving to Dallas just over a year ago.

I’ll note that in the past while they’d frequently take orders on the ground, they were able to get the service done without taking orders on the ground too. I also don’t recall FA’s getting up before the 10,000 ft “ding.” It’s just a company getting bigger, resting on their laurels, and slipping into complacency. NBD, jut the way things go. They’re not going anywhere.

Also, with as many short haul flights as they have, I don’t know why they don’t just go to those “mini” 7.5 cans of soda and 8 oz bottles of water, that way they can just hand them out and not have to worry about pouring drinks. Better yet, do like UA did when I was flying them regularly in 2021 and hand out the whole 12 oz can. Speeds up service and makes the customer happy.
 
sonnyr23
Posts: 164
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:18 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:44 am

Short flights past and present ATL to GSP, BWI to ORF, MCO to RSW, and some others are a crap shoot if Beverage service & snacks will be offered.
 
av8tiongeek
Posts: 242
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:23 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:48 pm

AMALH747430 wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:
Is it just me or are WN cabin crew doing less and less on flights (provide drinks and snacks), or is it just on the west coast?? And I mean due to the risk of turbulence, since moving to SLC it seems most of my flights by WN I had no service, not even a walk thru till it was time to land. Example I flew this past weekend and one flight was shaky most of the flight so I understand the safety reason. But my second 1h 40m flight was shaky first 10-15 min, and then not even a walk thru by the cabin crew until it was time to land. Now living in TPA/STQ area I can count only twice I had no service, other times even during light turbulence or right after the cabin crew came thru.


Not just you. They pull that stunt all the time here in Texas. I’ve also had Southwest flights to/fromthrough through Texas where the FA will say “I really hope you don’t want anything to drink” and “you don’t want anything do you” followed by a put upon “well I’ll try” with a sigh and an eye roll at every row. One of my favorites was a through flight with a crew change. When the new (LAS based) crew came on at DAL one of the three (not so quietly) said “I don’t want to do a service on this flight.” The other two agreed and sure enough, when we got airborne they got in the PA and said “we’ll take care of you next time.”

I’m not talking about when the Captain says “no service due to expected turbulence,” these are FAs griping/not wanting to.


Unfortunately, laziness has become is the latest pandemic.

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