Southwest Airlines News and Discussion - 2023

SWADawg · Wed May 03, 2023 3:00 am

avi8 wrote:
jviation737 wrote:
In-seat power retrofits beginning this month. N8710M will fly its first revenue flight with in-seat power tonight, doing DAL-LAS. Starting next month, all MAX deliveries will also feature in-seat power. Article also implies that larger space bins will be retrofitted to -800s as well.

https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/local ... d8617252d9

So will the NG fleet get the power ports? I don’t think it was that clear on the news article.

Unfortunately no. I think it’s a huge mistake, but not my decision.

AWACSooner · Wed May 03, 2023 6:23 pm

40+ years after WN begins service into Oklahoma...30+ years after WN introduces their first state themed plane (Lone Star One)...

Still no Oklahoma One!

jplatts · Wed May 03, 2023 6:48 pm

AWACSooner wrote:
40+ years after WN begins service into Oklahoma...30+ years after WN introduces their first state themed plane (Lone Star One)...

Still no Oklahoma One!

WN also doesn't yet have a Georgia One plane, despite WN having a focus city at ATL.

Bradin · Wed May 03, 2023 7:18 pm

SWADawg wrote:
avi8 wrote:
jviation737 wrote:
In-seat power retrofits beginning this month. N8710M will fly its first revenue flight with in-seat power tonight, doing DAL-LAS. Starting next month, all MAX deliveries will also feature in-seat power. Article also implies that larger space bins will be retrofitted to -800s as well.

https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/local ... d8617252d9

So will the NG fleet get the power ports? I don’t think it was that clear on the news article.

Unfortunately no. I think it’s a huge mistake, but not my decision.

Curious - why would it be a huge mistake?

Western727 · Wed May 03, 2023 7:27 pm

Bradin wrote:
SWADawg wrote:
avi8 wrote:

So will the NG fleet get the power ports? I don’t think it was that clear on the news article.

Unfortunately no. I think it’s a huge mistake, but not my decision.

Curious - why would it be a huge mistake?

FWIW, and for me, it's a lack of a consistent passenger experience. Plus, the fact that WN has no IFE/AVOD inherently ups the demand for power ports. I for one would appreciate not having to bring a power bank on trips when I know I won't need it/them other than on the air travel portions.

orlandocfi · Wed May 03, 2023 7:42 pm

Bradin wrote:
SWADawg wrote:
avi8 wrote:

So will the NG fleet get the power ports? I don’t think it was that clear on the news article.

Unfortunately no. I think it’s a huge mistake, but not my decision.

Curious - why would it be a huge mistake?

The mistake is *not* implementing seat power across the entire fleet. Even though the majority of the NG fleet doesn’t do long overwater flights, they still do everything from short hops to transcons. Introducing seat power ports creates an expectation for the passengers that every flight will have power. Lack of consistency in the product or experience is a sure-fire way to increase customer dissatisfaction.

FlyingSicilian · Thu May 04, 2023 2:55 am

AWACSooner wrote:
40+ years after WN begins service into Oklahoma...30+ years after WN introduces their first state themed plane (Lone Star One)...

Still no Oklahoma One!

It almost pains me to say it LOL after being a partial Texan at sTinker AFB for 5 years but yes there needs to be an Okie One given the history of WN and their early expansion. The colour would look good too I think. Come on WN!

737MAX7 · Thu May 04, 2023 3:43 am

AWACSooner wrote:
40+ years after WN begins service into Oklahoma...30+ years after WN introduces their first state themed plane (Lone Star One)...

Still no Oklahoma One!

No offense but WN runs more flights out of just HNL than all of the Oklahoma stations have combined. There is a reason there isn’t an Oklahoma One :lol:

FlyingSicilian · Thu May 04, 2023 3:50 am

737MAX7 wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
40+ years after WN begins service into Oklahoma...30+ years after WN introduces their first state themed plane (Lone Star One)...

Still no Oklahoma One!

No offense but WN runs more flights out of just HNL than all of the Oklahoma stations have combined. There is a reason there isn’t an Oklahoma One

What feckless non-sense. The same could have been said for New Mexico and they are an earlier adoptee. They are about honouring history not just volume.

I get the marketing behind newer stations or high volume ones; however their stated goal of respecting their history plays a part also. It would pain me even more LOL but an Arkie One would be good also. A quarter mil for paint is not too much haha

sonnyr23 · Thu May 04, 2023 7:49 am

I agree that an Oklahoma 1 would be a welcomed addition to the fleet and a way for Southwest to go back to its roots to honor a state that they have served for decades.

USAirKid · Thu May 04, 2023 9:23 am

AWACSooner wrote:
40+ years after WN begins service into Oklahoma...30+ years after WN introduces their first state themed plane (Lone Star One)...

Still no Oklahoma One!

I'm curious, is Oklahoma the second state after Texas that WN entered?

(Since initially WN was intra-TX so they didn't have to deal with the CAB.)

sprxUSA · Thu May 04, 2023 1:07 pm

^^^^That honor goes to Louisiana.

FlyingSicilian · Thu May 04, 2023 2:05 pm

sprxUSA wrote:
^^^^That honor goes to Louisiana.

Yeah OKC came about 4-5 months after MSY right?

departedflights · Thu May 04, 2023 2:34 pm

FlyingSicilian wrote:
Yeah OKC came about 4-5 months after MSY right?

The first cities outside of Texas were:

New Orleans (1/25/79)

Oklahoma City (4/1/80)

Tulsa (4/2/80)

Albuquerque (4/3/80)

Las Vegas, Phoenix and San Diego (1/31/82)

Kansas City (2/18/82)

Los Angeles (9/18/82)

San Francisco (10/31/82)

Also in there is the re-introduction of service to Houston Intercontinental (9/8/80)

FlyingMSY · Fri May 05, 2023 1:02 am

FlyingSicilian wrote:
737MAX7 wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
40+ years after WN begins service into Oklahoma...30+ years after WN introduces their first state themed plane (Lone Star One)...

Still no Oklahoma One!

No offense but WN runs more flights out of just HNL than all of the Oklahoma stations have combined. There is a reason there isn’t an Oklahoma One

What feckless non-sense. The same could have been said for New Mexico and they are an earlier adoptee. They are about honouring history not just volume.

I get the marketing behind newer stations or high volume ones; however their stated goal of respecting their history plays a part also. It would pain me even more LOL but an Arkie One would be good also. A quarter mil for paint is not too much haha

I'd like to add that ABQ used to be a large station for WN prior to its winddown; I know Wikipedia isn't exactly a reliable source, but peak 66-departures in Oct 2001 for an airline that had ~350ish aircraft is pretty significant.

rj777 · Fri May 05, 2023 5:11 am

I'm also throwing in on behalf of the two states I have lived in......no Nebraska One or Wisconsin One either!

Wingtips56 · Fri May 05, 2023 5:27 am

Oregon One could be interesting. The state shield on one side and the beaver on the other.

mga707 · Fri May 05, 2023 5:40 am

FlyingMSY wrote:

I'd like to add that ABQ used to be a large station for WN prior to its winddown; I know Wikipedia isn't exactly a reliable source, but peak 66-departures in Oct 2001 for an airline that had ~350ish aircraft is pretty significant.

That figure sounds about right for that time period. Pre-DEN and pre-end of the Wright Amendment. Did the TUS-ABQ; ABQ-DAL 'two-step' a number of times back then.

sonnyr23 · Fri May 05, 2023 7:21 am

ABQ was a full provisioning station for Southwest as well but was eliminated a few years or so back.

par13del · Fri May 05, 2023 11:30 am

How important was OKC in the Texas Two Step program?

midway7 · Fri May 05, 2023 12:10 pm

par13del wrote:
How important was OKC in the Texas Two Step program?

I think it was fairly important. TUL as well. I know there was always a small contingent of us that would use TUL to go from MDW to DAL.

southwest1675 · Fri May 05, 2023 12:11 pm

ABQ and BHM were reliever stations for DAL in the Wright Amendment days. Once the amendment was ended, BHM and ABQ lost a lot of WN service.

ATLgaUSA · Fri May 05, 2023 1:47 pm

southwest1675 wrote:
ABQ and BHM were reliever stations for DAL in the Wright Amendment days. Once the amendment was ended, BHM and ABQ lost a lot of WN service.

The flights BHM lost were to JAX, MSY, BNA, STL, and PHX. I don’t think the Wright Amendment had an effect on those routes being dropped with the exception of BNA.

cledaybuck · Fri May 05, 2023 2:07 pm

ATLgaUSA wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
ABQ and BHM were reliever stations for DAL in the Wright Amendment days. Once the amendment was ended, BHM and ABQ lost a lot of WN service.

The flights BHM lost were to JAX, MSY, BNA, STL, and PHX. I don’t think the Wright Amendment had an effect on those routes being dropped with the exception of BNA.

I would think you would have to throw JAX in there too.

ATLgaUSA · Fri May 05, 2023 2:29 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
ATLgaUSA wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
ABQ and BHM were reliever stations for DAL in the Wright Amendment days. Once the amendment was ended, BHM and ABQ lost a lot of WN service.

The flights BHM lost were to JAX, MSY, BNA, STL, and PHX. I don’t think the Wright Amendment had an effect on those routes being dropped with the exception of BNA.

I would think you would have to throw JAX in there too.

Maybe. The JAX flight routed JAX-BHM-LAS-BHM-JAX.

departedflights · Fri May 05, 2023 2:48 pm

southwest1675 wrote:
ABQ and BHM were reliever stations for DAL in the Wright Amendment days. Once the amendment was ended, BHM and ABQ lost a lot of WN service.

I don't think BHM was ever that much of a Wright Amendment gateway station.

Service from Dallas to Alabama was not even permitted under the original Wright Amendment.

Service to Alabama (as well as Kansas and Mississippi) was not allowed until the passage of the Shelby Amendment in 1997 and even then, Southwest did not begin nonstop service from Dallas to Birmingham until early 2008.

The majority of Wright Amendment restrictions expired six years later.

I would say that the major gateways during the 1980s and 90s were Albuquerque, El Paso and Houston and later on New Orleans (as Southwest expanded eastward) , Austin and San Antonio.

par13del · Fri May 05, 2023 3:12 pm

midway7 wrote:
par13del wrote:
How important was OKC in the Texas Two Step program?

I think it was fairly important. TUL as well. I know there was always a small contingent of us that would use TUL to go from MDW to DAL.

In that case, I agree that they should get a signature plane with the appropriate paint job, after all, the ability to do the Texas Two-Step and the push by the governors of those nearby states is what eventually led to WN being where it is to today, despite the effort to cripple them via the WA....unfortunately, we still have folks who believe the WA was put in place to PROTECT WN from competition.

KMCOFlyer · Fri May 05, 2023 5:19 pm

Western727 wrote:
Bradin wrote:
SWADawg wrote:
Unfortunately no. I think it’s a huge mistake, but not my decision.

Curious - why would it be a huge mistake?

FWIW, and for me, it's a lack of a consistent passenger experience. Plus, the fact that WN has no IFE/AVOD inherently ups the demand for power ports. I for one would appreciate not having to bring a power bank on trips when I know I won't need it/them other than on the air travel portions.

I could understand if they didn’t want to put ISP on the 73Gs as those have a completely different seat than the MAX but not installing them on the 738s makes no sense whatsoever as those have the same heart interior seats found on the MAX. If they can retrofit the existing MAX IDK what makes the 738s different.

Jshank83 · Fri May 05, 2023 7:17 pm

KMCOFlyer wrote:
Western727 wrote:
Bradin wrote:

Curious - why would it be a huge mistake?

FWIW, and for me, it's a lack of a consistent passenger experience. Plus, the fact that WN has no IFE/AVOD inherently ups the demand for power ports. I for one would appreciate not having to bring a power bank on trips when I know I won't need it/them other than on the air travel portions.

I could understand if they didn’t want to put ISP on the 73Gs as those have a completely different seat than the MAX but not installing them on the 738s makes no sense whatsoever as those have the same heart interior seats found on the MAX. If they can retrofit the existing MAX IDK what makes the 738s different.

And there are plenty of -800s that will be around for awhile.

Aliqiout · Fri May 05, 2023 9:21 pm

southwest1675 wrote:
ABQ and BHM were reliever stations for DAL in the Wright Amendment days. Once the amendment was ended, BHM and ABQ lost a lot of WN service.

Reliever isn't the right word, but I understand what you mean. ABQ replaced ELP as a connection point to DAL after WN got upset with ELP raising rates to fund airport improvements.

Scoots71 · Sat May 06, 2023 2:54 am

ATLgaUSA wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
ABQ and BHM were reliever stations for DAL in the Wright Amendment days. Once the amendment was ended, BHM and ABQ lost a lot of WN service.

The flights BHM lost were to JAX, MSY, BNA, STL, and PHX. I don’t think the Wright Amendment had an effect on those routes being dropped with the exception of BNA.

And nearly all of those routes would be very successful today if brought back to BHM, with BNA the potential only exception (unless WN used BNA similar to how DL shuttles everyone from BHM to ATL).

barney captain · Sat May 06, 2023 8:22 am

Aliqiout wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
ABQ and BHM were reliever stations for DAL in the Wright Amendment days. Once the amendment was ended, BHM and ABQ lost a lot of WN service.

Reliever isn't the right word, but I understand what you mean. ABQ replaced ELP as a connection point to DAL after WN got upset with ELP raising rates to fund airport improvements.

Nailed it.

WN732 · Sat May 06, 2023 5:46 pm

barney captain wrote:
Aliqiout wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
ABQ and BHM were reliever stations for DAL in the Wright Amendment days. Once the amendment was ended, BHM and ABQ lost a lot of WN service.

Reliever isn't the right word, but I understand what you mean. ABQ replaced ELP as a connection point to DAL after WN got upset with ELP raising rates to fund airport improvements.

Nailed it.

Didn't ELP have something along the lines of 50 departures at its peak?

sonnyr23 · Sat May 06, 2023 6:17 pm

I believe it did because ELP i think was a Full provisioning station for Southwest at one time.

n471wn · Sat May 06, 2023 6:58 pm

N7818L flew this morning to BHM for retirement.

elbandgeek · Sat May 06, 2023 8:08 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:
Western727 wrote:

FWIW, and for me, it's a lack of a consistent passenger experience. Plus, the fact that WN has no IFE/AVOD inherently ups the demand for power ports. I for one would appreciate not having to bring a power bank on trips when I know I won't need it/them other than on the air travel portions.

I could understand if they didn’t want to put ISP on the 73Gs as those have a completely different seat than the MAX but not installing them on the 738s makes no sense whatsoever as those have the same heart interior seats found on the MAX. If they can retrofit the existing MAX IDK what makes the 738s different.

And there are plenty of -800s that will be around for awhile.

When the heart seats were first introduced they said they would be on new deliveries only, but eventually they started refitting the existing 738s. My guess is the same thing will happen with the power ports. The 800s will get them eventually, but they're going to focus on getting the maxes done before formally comitting to it.

SXDFC · Sat May 06, 2023 8:31 pm

elbandgeek wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:

I could understand if they didn’t want to put ISP on the 73Gs as those have a completely different seat than the MAX but not installing them on the 738s makes no sense whatsoever as those have the same heart interior seats found on the MAX. If they can retrofit the existing MAX IDK what makes the 738s different.

And there are plenty of -800s that will be around for awhile.

When the heart seats were first introduced they said they would be on new deliveries only, but eventually they started refitting the existing 738s. My guess is the same thing will happen with the power ports. The 800s will get them eventually, but they're going to focus on getting the maxes done before formally comitting to it.

The only reason 8600-8604 got the new heart seats was so that they could use the original seats on the secondhand -700s they were picking up at the time.. From what I was told.

If the larger overhead bins help reduce gate checked bags, etc.. I could see a good case for those to be retrofitted.

PA12 · Sat May 06, 2023 8:34 pm

WN732 wrote:
barney captain wrote:
Aliqiout wrote:
Reliever isn't the right word, but I understand what you mean. ABQ replaced ELP as a connection point to DAL after WN got upset with ELP raising rates to fund airport improvements.

Nailed it.

Didn't ELP have something along the lines of 50 departures at its peak?

Yes it did and I think that yes, it was a bit more than 50, until they remodeled the airport

qfatwa · Sat May 06, 2023 9:26 pm

n471wn wrote:
N7818L flew this morning to BHM for retirement.

Is this due to end of lease please? (and 6th oldest aircraft in fleet) !!

KDAL · Sat May 06, 2023 9:43 pm

qfatwa wrote:
n471wn wrote:
N7818L flew this morning to BHM for retirement.

Is this due to end of lease please? (and 6th oldest aircraft in fleet) !!

I think it is a leased bird but they go to BHM exclusively for part-out and scrap. Might have bought out the lease to scrap it or the lessor must agree it's at the end of its useful life.

INFINITI329 · Sat May 06, 2023 9:46 pm

KMCOFlyer wrote:
Western727 wrote:
Bradin wrote:

Curious - why would it be a huge mistake?

FWIW, and for me, it's a lack of a consistent passenger experience. Plus, the fact that WN has no IFE/AVOD inherently ups the demand for power ports. I for one would appreciate not having to bring a power bank on trips when I know I won't need it/them other than on the air travel portions.

I could understand if they didn’t want to put ISP on the 73Gs as those have a completely different seat than the MAX but not installing them on the 738s makes no sense whatsoever as those have the same heart interior seats found on the MAX. If they can retrofit the existing MAX IDK what makes the 738s different.

if im not mistaken there still a few 738s that still have the EVOLVE seats

qfatwa · Sat May 06, 2023 10:16 pm

HEART PAINT Update.
Currently in paint - N8638A and by tonight (6th May), N282WN will have stopped at Spokane (GEG),

This leaves 17 in Canyon Blue: 5 x 738 are guaranteed repaints - N8646B (to be Nevada One); N8647A, N8649A, N8650F and N8651A.

Already ruled out of receiving Heart livery are 7 x 700 series fleet numbers - N754SW, N760SW, N762SW, N774SW, N780SW, N783SW, N786SW (imminent retirement) and 1 x 400 series fleet number - N430WN (stored).

There are 4 more aircraft still in Canyon Blue livery.
N557WN (22.5 years old) 30th oldest in fleet.
N562WN (22.4 years old) 33rd oldest in fleet.
N7811F (21.6 years old) 65th oldest in fleet.
N7813P (21.8 years old) 52nd oldest in fleet.
Does logic say that these will not being repainted into Heart livery - which would be a waste of money with so many new aircraft on order.
The youngest 700 fleet number aircraft (N793SA) is 22.4 years, and the 38th oldest aircraft [younger than unpainted N557WN & N562WN].

Thus, does this suggest that only 5 more aircraft will be repainted into Heart livery, and 4 more aircraft will remain in Canyon Blue until retirement (making a total of 12 aircraft unpainted, and 11 known to be in service)?

SWADawg · Sun May 07, 2023 3:15 am

qfatwa wrote:
HEART PAINT Update.
Currently in paint - N8638A and by tonight (6th May), N282WN will have stopped at Spokane (GEG),

This leaves 17 in Canyon Blue: 5 x 738 are guaranteed repaints - N8646B (to be Nevada One); N8647A, N8649A, N8650F and N8651A.

Already ruled out of receiving Heart livery are 7 x 700 series fleet numbers - N754SW, N760SW, N762SW, N774SW, N780SW, N783SW, N786SW (imminent retirement) and 1 x 400 series fleet number - N430WN (stored).

There are 4 more aircraft still in Canyon Blue livery.
N557WN (22.5 years old) 30th oldest in fleet.
N562WN (22.4 years old) 33rd oldest in fleet.
N7811F (21.6 years old) 65th oldest in fleet.
N7813P (21.8 years old) 52nd oldest in fleet.
Does logic say that these will not being repainted into Heart livery - which would be a waste of money with so many new aircraft on order.
The youngest 700 fleet number aircraft (N793SA) is 22.4 years, and the 38th oldest aircraft [younger than unpainted N557WN & N562WN].

Thus, does this suggest that only 5 more aircraft will be repainted into Heart livery, and 4 more aircraft will remain in Canyon Blue until retirement (making a total of 12 aircraft unpainted, and 11 known to be in service)?

Yes. There’s a notation on N8651A that says last heart livery repaint, so I assume this will be it for Spirit to Heart conversions. The rest as you say will probably be retired in the next year or so and continue to wear the Spirit livery.

n711hk · Sun May 07, 2023 6:11 am

Anybody know which A/C is oldest in the fleet now, or have a list of the top 10? Thanks.

KLMatSJC · Sun May 07, 2023 7:27 am

n711hk wrote:
Anybody know which A/C is oldest in the fleet now, or have a list of the top 10? Thanks.

N736SA
N750SA
N751SW
N752SW
N7836A
N754SW
N755SA
N757LV
N762SW
N560WN

All just over 23 years old.

n471wn · Sun May 07, 2023 10:55 pm

https://twitter.com/Prova_61/status/165 ... 62/photo/1

Can anyone help me figure out what the old WN registration was on this aircraft parked on permanent display is Xiamen, China

khaba · Tue May 09, 2023 9:05 am

n471wn wrote:
https://twitter.com/Prova_61/status/1654872471995023362/photo/1

Can anyone help me figure out what the old WN registration was on this aircraft parked on permanent display is Xiamen, China

According to planespotters, N657SW was the only WN -300 I could see stored in China. But in Chengdu, not Xiamen like the tweet states.

n471wn · Tue May 09, 2023 5:50 pm

khaba wrote:
n471wn wrote:
https://twitter.com/Prova_61/status/1654872471995023362/photo/1

Can anyone help me figure out what the old WN registration was on this aircraft parked on permanent display is Xiamen, China

According to planespotters, N657SW was the only WN -300 I could see stored in China. But in Chengdu, not Xiamen like the tweet states.

Thank you and this must be it

SXDFC · Tue May 09, 2023 6:48 pm

N657SW never had winglets. I believe the plane in the picture above is N392SW.

SXDFC · Tue May 09, 2023 6:53 pm

INFINITI329 wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:
Western727 wrote:

FWIW, and for me, it's a lack of a consistent passenger experience. Plus, the fact that WN has no IFE/AVOD inherently ups the demand for power ports. I for one would appreciate not having to bring a power bank on trips when I know I won't need it/them other than on the air travel portions.

I could understand if they didn’t want to put ISP on the 73Gs as those have a completely different seat than the MAX but not installing them on the 738s makes no sense whatsoever as those have the same heart interior seats found on the MAX. If they can retrofit the existing MAX IDK what makes the 738s different.

if im not mistaken there still a few 738s that still have the EVOLVE seats

Heart Seats/ Old Galley
===================
8301-8329/ 8600-8604

Evolve Seats
==========
8605-8686

Heart Interior/ New Galley
===================
8687-8584

All MAX8s have Heart Interior New Galley

Larger Overhead bins are on 8846- 8861 (newest delivery)

ISP (Power Ports) are on 8710, 8766, 1810 (later two either have it installed or need to be activated or will have it installed).

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