dtremit wrote:

rnav2dlrey wrote:

truly one of the worst signs i've seen in recent memory. i almost never use A, but i'm interested to see how long it lasts.

if someone tweets it to DL, i would imagine that it's replaced quickly.

That appears to be a Massport sign, not something Delta put up.

It is. The font/color schemes give it away.

Not sure what’s wrong with it either. I suppose some might prefer Delta’s way of notifying travelers, which is to apparently do nothing.

FGITD wrote:

dtremit wrote:

rnav2dlrey wrote:

truly one of the worst signs i've seen in recent memory. i almost never use A, but i'm interested to see how long it lasts.

if someone tweets it to DL, i would imagine that it's replaced quickly.

That appears to be a Massport sign, not something Delta put up.

It is. The font/color schemes give it away.

Not sure what’s wrong with it either. I suppose some might prefer Delta’s way of notifying travelers, which is to apparently do nothing.

Only if you don't have an email address, a cell phone number, or don't bother to check-in online. There are different times from the moment you book the flight until you get to the airport where Delta tells you what terminal your flight is departing from.

airbazar wrote:

rnav2dlrey wrote:

truly one of the worst signs i've seen in recent memory. i almost never use A, but i'm interested to see how long it lasts.

if someone tweets it to DL, i would imagine that it's replaced quickly.

Really? I don't see anything wrong with it. It's a smart use of technology considering the flights departing from E could change at any day. The alternative is a placard type board like the green monster scoreboard at Fenway park And who these days is not familiar with QR codes?

Personally even if they hand wrote the flights for each day in marker in that section I'd see it as more convenient than having to get out your phone. That's coming from a millennial too. But I do understand why they saw this is a way to make one sign and then be able to shift the departing flights as needed.

Truth is that they could install a machine that punches you in the stomach while yelling what terminal you should go to and half the travelers would still end up in the wrong place and say no one told them.

FGITD wrote:

Truth is that they could install a machine that punches you in the stomach while yelling what terminal you should go to and half the travelers would still end up in the wrong place and say no one told them.

I'd actually pay good money to see that. Maybe they can put it in Terminal E arrivals where that ball contraption used to be/is, make a ring and $10 for a 3 minute punch in the gut for travellers that do this or purchase. CID-ORD-DTW-BOS-LHR-FRA-LHR-BOS-DTW-ORD-CID tickets to save $0.25 per ticket.

I’m sitting in terminal E tonight (2/3) and see 2 JAL planes at remote stands. I didn’t think there was ever more than 1 meant to be on the ground at a time. Any scheduling quirks going on?

johhn14 wrote:

I’m sitting in terminal E tonight (2/3) and see 2 JAL planes at remote stands. I didn’t think there was ever more than 1 meant to be on the ground at a time. Any scheduling quirks going on?

From JAL's site, flight 007 scheduled to depart Friday has been pushed back to Saturday afternoon due to mechanical issues. Both planes are scheduled to fly on Saturday.

Thanks.

I can see an engine cowling open on one of them parked at “E15”.

pitbosflyer wrote:

Flew AA from PHL back to Boston yesterday. My seatmate described a truly bizarre flight itinerary. This was an average 50 something woman that was flying PHL - BOS on AA then DL for BOS-MSP. Apparently Expedia sold her that self connecting booking and described "you may have to change terminals". I broke the bad news to her that she would need to exit security and re-clear at terminal A. She was thinking it would be more like in PHL where all the terminals are basically connected post security. Anyways she was very unsure of what I described she would have to do. So I ended up walking her over to A before heading to central parking myself. While I was in A, I saw they updated this sign. Which is now hilariously not very useful. I guess the international departure locations just kept changing. Moral of the story, people on here see it as crazy that Delta was making people change terminals to connect and here I run into a normal person doing an even more difficult self connect. People really just care about price of the ticket.

I am in BOS and to add confusion on the signs leading into the airport Delta appears on both A and E with nothing further. This reminds me a bit of AA in DFW where you have to check to see what terminal your flight is leaving from. At least DFW has the skylink though so going to the wrong terminal not a big deal. It’s a much bigger deal in BOS.

FGITD wrote:

Truth is that they could install a machine that punches you in the stomach while yelling what terminal you should go to and half the travelers would still end up in the wrong place and say no one told them.

The other week I had someone ask me where C34 was. I pointed down the exact hallway she needed. 30 seconds later I saw her down the concourse motoring off towards B34, completely ignoring what I'd just told her. People are literally hopeless in airports. Even "follow the arrows on the floor" is an impossible task.

pitbosflyer wrote:

airbazar wrote:

rnav2dlrey wrote:

truly one of the worst signs i've seen in recent memory. i almost never use A, but i'm interested to see how long it lasts.

if someone tweets it to DL, i would imagine that it's replaced quickly.

Really? I don't see anything wrong with it. It's a smart use of technology considering the flights departing from E could change at any day. The alternative is a placard type board like the green monster scoreboard at Fenway park And who these days is not familiar with QR codes?

Personally even if they hand wrote the flights for each day in marker in that section I'd see it as more convenient than having to get out your phone. That's coming from a millennial too. But I do understand why they saw this is a way to make one sign and then be able to shift the departing flights as needed.

No information is better than outdated information, in most cases.

That said, it wouldn't take them much to add "...or check monitors for gates beginning with E" for the benefit of people unable to figure out QR codes.

N766UA wrote:

The other week I had someone ask me where C34 was. I pointed down the exact hallway she needed. 30 seconds later I saw her down the concourse motoring off towards B34, completely ignoring what I'd just told her. People are literally hopeless in airports. Even "follow the arrows on the floor" is an impossible task.

There's probably a good argument to be made for airports like BOS adopting non-overlapping gate numbers, particularly once all the terminals are connected airside.

"B34" and "C34" are obvious in print, but spoken aloud in a noisy terminal, with someone who's maybe hard of hearing or a non-native speaker of English, they might well be hard to differentiate.

And if you're standing in front of, say, C24 when you ask the question, they're both about the same difference away. I do wonder why Terminal C is numbered "backwards" compared to A/B/E, with the high numbers at the opposite end (and why that hasn't ever been corrected).

Leaving some room for expansion, you could have A1-29, B30-79, C80-119, and E120-149.

dtremit wrote:

And if you're standing in front of, say, C24 when you ask the question, they're both about the same difference away. I do wonder why Terminal C is numbered "backwards" compared to A/B/E, with the high numbers at the opposite end (and why that hasn't ever been corrected).

Leaving some room for expansion, you could have A1-29, B30-79, C80-119, and E120-149.

Historically it never really mattered because, with some limited exceptions (most notably the DL and US Shuttles, along with international arrivals), the individual airlines were all contained within single terminals. Very few passengers connected between airlines (and by extension, terminals) so there was little opportunity for confusion -- and if you were changing carriers, you could just point yourself to that airline's terminal and you'd be fine. Almost no one is going to care that one terminal seems to be numbered backwards. And the idea that the various terminals should be connected beyond security is very recent at Logan; Terminal B had something like six unconnected sterile areas back in the 1990s.

Only in recent years, with consolidation, is it even conceivable that a single airline at BOS could be too large for a single terminal.

dtremit wrote:

Leaving some room for expansion, you could have A1-29, B30-79, C80-119, and E120-149.

This is actually a really good idea. I hope someone from Massport is reading this.

airbazar wrote:

dtremit wrote:

Leaving some room for expansion, you could have A1-29, B30-79, C80-119, and E120-149.

This is actually a really good idea. I hope someone from Massport is reading this.

And in the interest of keeping costs down. A1 to A22 are already set

VS4ever wrote:

airbazar wrote:

dtremit wrote:

Leaving some room for expansion, you could have A1-29, B30-79, C80-119, and E120-149.

This is actually a really good idea. I hope someone from Massport is reading this.

And in the interest of keeping costs down. A1 to A22 are already set

Unfortunately, more and more airports are choosing to revamp gate numbers with the overlapping method. SFO and SJU are recent examples.

I actually like the non-overlapping gate numbering system.

working on the August numbers for Boston International. but a prelude before I publish the whole thing.

B6 - BOS-LGW (55 flights, 7,590 seats, 6,027 pax) 138 seats per flight, 110 pax per flight for a load of 79.4%

LHR didn't start until September, so won't get those until next month.

Hi all,

Boston International traffic thru August from the T-100 reports. I am only looking at 21 and 22 at the moment, to show the progression out of Covid.

link is here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... ue&sd=true
source data is the DOT published data through Aug 22

Summary of data:

First few tabs are summary of the entire performance across the entire network, then it works through a couple of stages.
Stage 1 is US airlines breakouts and Stage 2 is by Region, due to it’s size, I split Europe into North, South, Central & East and West

I try to remove any extraneous data like cargo, diverts or charters, and that's how I show the data.
Data Sets:
Current Month – Aug 22
Prior Month – July 22
Q2
YTD
2021
Combined 2021 and 2022
And Comparator of Aug 21 vs Aug 22.

You will see info on flights, seats, passengers, capacity %, miles, average stage lengths, air-time (only US airlines provide the data to support that), etc. I've used about every metric they have in the specific file.

So I hope you find this useful.

Key Data from the report:

Aug Month
4,480 flights recorded, 877,935 seats and 761,983 passengers (86.8%), Avg of 170 passengers per flight across the network, Avg Departures per day at 72
July comparatives: 4,310 flights recorded, 852,256 seats and 752,618 passengers (88.3%), Avg of 175 passengers per flight across the network, Avg Departures per day at 70
Seats were up 3% overall, Pax up 1.2% Month to Month
Aug YTD
27,351 flights, 5,399,235 seats and 4,133.891 passengers (76.6%), avg pax count 151, which is running 34 above the average for the whole 2021

Vs Aug 21
2,292 flights (2,188 lower than 2022), 460,938 (417K lower than 22), 346,304 (416K lower than 2022). (75.1%, so loads were 11.7% higher in 22 vs 21), Avg Departures per day 37 vs 72 in 2022

90.5% increase In seats converted to a 120% increase in passengers flying.

Route Info:
New Stuff:
B6 – BOS-LGW – 55 flights, 7,590 seats, 6,027 pax for a capacity factor of 79.4% (110 pax per flight on average)
Return of HKG, 41 flights, 13,694 seats, 5,993 pax for a capacity factor of 43.8%

8 routes pulled in less than 80% (HKG, UVF, YTZ, DXB, BDA, POP , LGW and YYZ)
DL #1 International with 122K pax vs #2 B6 with 119K
Next largest: EI – 45K, LH – 38K, BA – 37K

12 carriers broke 90%, highest was S4 with 96.0%
4 carriers failed to break 80% (CX, YX, PD and EK)

BOS-LHR – 86,000 pax carried, Loads in order went, UA/BA (Statistical Tie), AA, VS and DL, noting that all were within 3% of each other.
Play continues to do ok, although FI was almost triple the flights match the load factor at 91.5% BOS-KEF 169 per flight for 91.5%
Condor continues to also do ok holding at 205 per flight on BOS-FRA (81.9%), but well behind LH at 91.7%
DL is #1 continues to beat out AZ on BOS-FCO and LY on BOS-TLV, both in pax flown and % and was ahead of AF on load % for BOS-CDG and tied for load % with KL on BOS-AMS
Usual disclaimers apply, Data is only as good as what was submitted to the feds and I make no judgement or comment about profitability of routes, as the data just isn’t there.

for now, Enjoy and any questions, please let me know.
Also, B6 vs DL comparatives for August Combined
B6 DL
Dom – flight 7,386 7,404
Int - flight 735 539
8,121 7,943
Dom - Pax 748,911 720,278
Int - Pax 118.915 121,921
Month 867,826 842,199

YTD
Flights 58,261 57,567
Pax 6,161,541 5,525,190

Still pretty close, but B6 appears to be pulling away again.

EK under 80% does not an A380 bring.

Read in the Westjet thread WS is increasing BOS-YYC to 4x weekly and expanding the season.

Also read an article on Simple Flying S4 is bringing the A330 to BOS over the summer.

On Norse thread, they stated LGW flights will be announced this week. What about DUB?

As others have stated, looks like LOT won’t launch BOS-WAW this year. Wonder if BOS-AUH announcement is on the horizon?? Don’t think BOS-DXB will go back to A380; I’ve taken that flight numerous times and it’s connection heavy (with B6 connects).

VS4ever wrote:

4 carriers failed to break 80% (CX, YX, PD and EK)

Wow was this the first month the B6 interline went away for EK?Historically, August has been good to them.

QR's numbers seem more consistent month to month.

adamh8297 wrote:

VS4ever wrote:

4 carriers failed to break 80% (CX, YX, PD and EK)

Wow was this the first month the B6 interline went away for EK?Historically, August has been good to them.

QR's numbers seem more consistent month to month.

Believe it or not, that didn't happen until the end of October, this is either an anomaly in EK's numbers, or a sign of not good things. https://onemileatatime.com/news/emirate ... %20awarded.


It wasn't a service issue, because they recorded 62 flights (meaning 31 days and daily).

My Math between Massport's pax numbers and T-100's is about 1,000 to the positive from the T-100's, which is a little concerning as it's usually the other way around, but suffice to say, these numbers are not ridiculously off. I can't split Massport's numbers as they won't release the individual calculations generally, so I have to take what I have. But the flight counts are identical.

PS, I might move IST from West Europe to Middle East next month as it appears that's how Massport treats it in their numbers.

VS4ever wrote:

adamh8297 wrote:

VS4ever wrote:

4 carriers failed to break 80% (CX, YX, PD and EK)

Wow was this the first month the B6 interline went away for EK?Historically, August has been good to them.

QR's numbers seem more consistent month to month.

Believe it or not, that didn't happen until the end of October, this is either an anomaly in EK's numbers, or a sign of not good things. https://onemileatatime.com/news/emirate ... %20awarded.


It wasn't a service issue, because they recorded 62 flights (meaning 31 days and daily).

My Math between Massport's pax numbers and T-100's is about 1,000 to the positive from the T-100's, which is a little concerning as it's usually the other way around, but suffice to say, these numbers are not ridiculously off. I can't split Massport's numbers as they won't release the individual calculations generally, so I have to take what I have. But the flight counts are identical.

PS, I might move IST from West Europe to Middle East next month as it appears that's how Massport treats it in their numbers.

Anyone know how BOS compares to say IAD, ORD, MIA for EK in August? It’s unbearably hot in DXB in August so it doesn’t shock me the loads are lower even though many are connecting onwards. But doesn’t help nobody wants to be in DXB May thru October.

Magnum9 wrote:

VS4ever wrote:

adamh8297 wrote:

Wow was this the first month the B6 interline went away for EK?Historically, August has been good to them.

QR's numbers seem more consistent month to month.

Believe it or not, that didn't happen until the end of October, this is either an anomaly in EK's numbers, or a sign of not good things. https://onemileatatime.com/news/emirate ... %20awarded.


It wasn't a service issue, because they recorded 62 flights (meaning 31 days and daily).

My Math between Massport's pax numbers and T-100's is about 1,000 to the positive from the T-100's, which is a little concerning as it's usually the other way around, but suffice to say, these numbers are not ridiculously off. I can't split Massport's numbers as they won't release the individual calculations generally, so I have to take what I have. But the flight counts are identical.

PS, I might move IST from West Europe to Middle East next month as it appears that's how Massport treats it in their numbers.

Anyone know how BOS compares to say IAD, ORD, MIA for EK in August? It’s unbearably hot in DXB in August so it doesn’t shock me the loads are lower even though many are connecting onwards. But doesn’t help nobody wants to be in DXB May thru October.

You are not considering a very important occurrence that happens in August.

Students arriving in Boston for higher education.

adamh8297 wrote:

Magnum9 wrote:

VS4ever wrote:

Believe it or not, that didn't happen until the end of October, this is either an anomaly in EK's numbers, or a sign of not good things. https://onemileatatime.com/news/emirate ... %20awarded.


It wasn't a service issue, because they recorded 62 flights (meaning 31 days and daily).

My Math between Massport's pax numbers and T-100's is about 1,000 to the positive from the T-100's, which is a little concerning as it's usually the other way around, but suffice to say, these numbers are not ridiculously off. I can't split Massport's numbers as they won't release the individual calculations generally, so I have to take what I have. But the flight counts are identical.

PS, I might move IST from West Europe to Middle East next month as it appears that's how Massport treats it in their numbers.

Anyone know how BOS compares to say IAD, ORD, MIA for EK in August? It’s unbearably hot in DXB in August so it doesn’t shock me the loads are lower even though many are connecting onwards. But doesn’t help nobody wants to be in DXB May thru October.

You are not considering a very important occurrence that happens in August.

Students arriving in Boston for higher education.

This is true. I thought that started first week of September and for some reason I still have it stuck in my head many are doing remote learning.

When WS starts BOS-YYC in May will they have a dedicated gate in terminal A like when they flew BOS-YYZ & YHZ (A1) or will it vary flight to flight?

Magnum9 wrote:

VS4ever wrote:

adamh8297 wrote:

Wow was this the first month the B6 interline went away for EK?Historically, August has been good to them.

QR's numbers seem more consistent month to month.

Believe it or not, that didn't happen until the end of October, this is either an anomaly in EK's numbers, or a sign of not good things. https://onemileatatime.com/news/emirate ... %20awarded.


It wasn't a service issue, because they recorded 62 flights (meaning 31 days and daily).

My Math between Massport's pax numbers and T-100's is about 1,000 to the positive from the T-100's, which is a little concerning as it's usually the other way around, but suffice to say, these numbers are not ridiculously off. I can't split Massport's numbers as they won't release the individual calculations generally, so I have to take what I have. But the flight counts are identical.

PS, I might move IST from West Europe to Middle East next month as it appears that's how Massport treats it in their numbers.

Anyone know how BOS compares to say IAD, ORD, MIA for EK in August? It’s unbearably hot in DXB in August so it doesn’t shock me the loads are lower even though many are connecting onwards. But doesn’t help nobody wants to be in DXB May thru October.

Ask and you shall receive:

airport, flights, seats, pax, capacity % (ranking)

BOS, 62, 22,072, 16,226 - 73.5% [8]
DFW, 62, 19,156, 14,671 - 76.6% [6]
EWR 62, 22,072, 16,170 - 73.3% (this is EWR-ATH) [9]
IAD, 62,31,992, 22,795 - 71.3% [12]
IAH, 62, 18.724, 13,395 - 71.5% [11]
JFK 124, 63,984, 50,971 - 79,7% [2]
JFK 62, 31,992, 25,308 - 79.1% (this is JFK-MXP) [3]
LAX 62, 30,380, 24,509 - 80.7% [1]
MCO, 44, 15,048, 11,753 - 78.1% [4]
MIA, 62, 20,274, 13,660 - 67.4% [13]
ORD, 62, 22,072, 16,093 - 72.9% [10]
SEA, 62, 22,072, 16,927 - 76.7% [5]
SFO, 62, 31,992, 23,707 - 74.1% [7]

VS4ever wrote:

Magnum9 wrote:

VS4ever wrote:

Believe it or not, that didn't happen until the end of October, this is either an anomaly in EK's numbers, or a sign of not good things. https://onemileatatime.com/news/emirate ... %20awarded.


It wasn't a service issue, because they recorded 62 flights (meaning 31 days and daily).

My Math between Massport's pax numbers and T-100's is about 1,000 to the positive from the T-100's, which is a little concerning as it's usually the other way around, but suffice to say, these numbers are not ridiculously off. I can't split Massport's numbers as they won't release the individual calculations generally, so I have to take what I have. But the flight counts are identical.

PS, I might move IST from West Europe to Middle East next month as it appears that's how Massport treats it in their numbers.

Anyone know how BOS compares to say IAD, ORD, MIA for EK in August? It’s unbearably hot in DXB in August so it doesn’t shock me the loads are lower even though many are connecting onwards. But doesn’t help nobody wants to be in DXB May thru October.

Ask and you shall receive:

airport, flights, seats, pax, capacity % (ranking)

BOS, 62, 22,072, 16,226 - 73.5% [8]
DFW, 62, 19,156, 14,671 - 76.6% [6]
EWR 62, 22,072, 16,170 - 73.3% (this is EWR-ATH) [9]
IAD, 62,31,992, 22,795 - 71.3% [12]
IAH, 62, 18.724, 13,395 - 71.5% [11]
JFK 124, 63,984, 50,971 - 79,7% [2]
JFK 62, 31,992, 25,308 - 79.1% (this is JFK-MXP) [3]
LAX 62, 30,380, 24,509 - 80.7% [1]
MCO, 44, 15,048, 11,753 - 78.1% [4]
MIA, 62, 20,274, 13,660 - 67.4% [13]
ORD, 62, 22,072, 16,093 - 72.9% [10]
SEA, 62, 22,072, 16,927 - 76.7% [5]
SFO, 62, 31,992, 23,707 - 74.1% [7]

First and foremost - thank you so much for pulling all that! Very nice.

Good to see BOS holding its own in the pack for EK. LAX, JFK & MCO leading the pack. Still holding out hope EK will bring the 380 back and now that LH officially is BOS will have the original 3 again. Fingers crossed.

Tough numbers for MIA….ouch. EK had a tough time at FLL with their smallest plane (77L) and with B6 connections. Didn’t think they’d fare much better down the road at MIA and upgauging to the 77W and increasing frequency to daily.

VS4ever wrote:

Magnum9 wrote:

VS4ever wrote:

Believe it or not, that didn't happen until the end of October, this is either an anomaly in EK's numbers, or a sign of not good things. https://onemileatatime.com/news/emirate ... %20awarded.


It wasn't a service issue, because they recorded 62 flights (meaning 31 days and daily).

My Math between Massport's pax numbers and T-100's is about 1,000 to the positive from the T-100's, which is a little concerning as it's usually the other way around, but suffice to say, these numbers are not ridiculously off. I can't split Massport's numbers as they won't release the individual calculations generally, so I have to take what I have. But the flight counts are identical.

PS, I might move IST from West Europe to Middle East next month as it appears that's how Massport treats it in their numbers.

Anyone know how BOS compares to say IAD, ORD, MIA for EK in August? It’s unbearably hot in DXB in August so it doesn’t shock me the loads are lower even though many are connecting onwards. But doesn’t help nobody wants to be in DXB May thru October.

Ask and you shall receive:

airport, flights, seats, pax, capacity % (ranking)

BOS, 62, 22,072, 16,226 - 73.5% [8]
DFW, 62, 19,156, 14,671 - 76.6% [6]
EWR 62, 22,072, 16,170 - 73.3% (this is EWR-ATH) [9]
IAD, 62,31,992, 22,795 - 71.3% [12]
IAH, 62, 18.724, 13,395 - 71.5% [11]
JFK 124, 63,984, 50,971 - 79,7% [2]
JFK 62, 31,992, 25,308 - 79.1% (this is JFK-MXP) [3]
LAX 62, 30,380, 24,509 - 80.7% [1]
MCO, 44, 15,048, 11,753 - 78.1% [4]
MIA, 62, 20,274, 13,660 - 67.4% [13]
ORD, 62, 22,072, 16,093 - 72.9% [10]
SEA, 62, 22,072, 16,927 - 76.7% [5]
SFO, 62, 31,992, 23,707 - 74.1% [7]

In the greater context, these numbers aren’t that bad. However, with that said, I don’t see EK going back to the A380- those flights used to be probably 40-50% connections via B6.. I’ve taken EK BOS-DXB probably four dozen times, and the heavy connects was par for the course for that flight. What happens now that B6 and EK no longer have their partnership? If QR was smart, they’d capitalize on this opportunity and/or Etihad jumps in and adds AUH-BOS. That’s a huge opportunity for them.

Anyone know the ratio of O&D vs B6 connections for EK’s JFK flights? I’m sure O&D does well, but overall loads will also likely take a hit after the B6 partnership ends just like BOS will. Perhaps JFK a bit more since EY already flys there?

Magnum9 wrote:

Anyone know the ratio of O&D vs B6 connections for EK’s JFK flights? I’m sure O&D does well, but overall loads will also likely take a hit after the B6 partnership ends just like BOS will. Perhaps JFK a bit more since EY already flys there?

So I know for a fact B6/EK used to flow FAR more pax over BOS vs. JFK- in fact I believe that was widely known back in the 2015-2017 timeframe. In fact (and you would have to dig for this article) CAPA published an analysis back in 2015/2016 showing EK capacity to North America, and Boston was a rock solid #2 after JFK (far exceeding LAX and other cities). BOS was a huge market for EK and they were flowing massive connections onto B6 flights via BOS (not nearly as many connections over JFK- which was stated in that article and backed up with data). At the time, I remember the biggest (published) markets for them were PIT, DTW, BUF, CLE, ORD (despite DXB flying to ORD), and YTZ (via Porter- despite the EK YYZ flight (in fact there were actually a lot of connects via Porter)), and some AS connects via PDX, SEA and SAN. Again, this was back in the 2015-2016 timeframe when I feel the flight was in its hay-day. I can’t tell you how many dozens of times I was standing at baggage claim in BOS coming off that flight and seeing bags roll out with stickers for PIT, DTW, ORD, YTZ and SAN.

With all that said; JFK-DXB is a massive market with so many onward connections beyond DXB; despite the huge B6 precense at JFK, I don’t expect this to have much, if any impact on the flights. Actually, there were far more EK/B6 interlines over BOS rather than JFK, not to say people didn’t connect over JFK; more connected over BOS. JFK is just so massive, the loss of the B6 connection will just get backfilled in.

Regarding EK, I recently flew them and J was relatively full. Handful of empty seats but probably ~90% range.

As a bit of an aside, I saw at baggage claim a lot of bags tagged onward to YUL and YYZ. I wasn't able to see the carrier taking their bags north of the border but found it somewhat interesting/curious that there were such a large number of passengers transiting in Boston to head up to Canada. I did not observe any bags tagged onward with US destinations in my unscientific analysis.

chrisnh wrote:

EK under 80% does not an A380 bring.

Those are numbers from Aug 22. It was a different world back then. India, which I believe is the main source of pax for this flight still had Covid restrictions and every traveler needed a negative PCR test and full vaccination. The U.S. only lifted the testing requirement in late June, which was too late for people making Summer travel plans. I expect 2023 to be different. The fact that LH is bringing the A380, DL is extending seasonal TATL service to year-round, S4 up-gauging from A321 to A330, AV bringing back BOG, etc... should all be an indication of what's to come as far as international travel is concerned.

EADSYABSOB73857 wrote:

In the greater context, these numbers aren’t that bad. However, with that said, I don’t see EK going back to the A380- those flights used to be probably 40-50% connections via B6.. I’ve taken EK BOS-DXB probably four dozen times, and the heavy connects was par for the course for that flight. What happens now that B6 and EK no longer have their partnership? If QR was smart, they’d capitalize on this opportunity and/or Etihad jumps in and adds AUH-BOS. That’s a huge opportunity for them.

QR and EY just don't have the POS in India that EK does. EK will just offer those connections via a United hub now. Between ORD, EWR, or IAD there is no shortage of hubs in the northeast. A similar thing happened with TAP. When TP ended their partnership with B6 they strengthened their presence in United hubs.

airbazar wrote:

chrisnh wrote:

EK under 80% does not an A380 bring.

Those are numbers from Aug 22. It was a different world back then. India, which I believe is the main source of pax for this flight still had Covid restrictions and every traveler needed a negative PCR test and full vaccination. The U.S. only lifted the testing requirement in late June, which was too late for people making Summer travel plans. I expect 2023 to be different. The fact that LH is bringing the A380, DL is extending seasonal TATL service to year-round, S4 up-gauging from A321 to A330, AV bringing back BOG, etc... should all be an indication of what's to come as far as international travel is concerned.

EADSYABSOB73857 wrote:

In the greater context, these numbers aren’t that bad. However, with that said, I don’t see EK going back to the A380- those flights used to be probably 40-50% connections via B6.. I’ve taken EK BOS-DXB probably four dozen times, and the heavy connects was par for the course for that flight. What happens now that B6 and EK no longer have their partnership? If QR was smart, they’d capitalize on this opportunity and/or Etihad jumps in and adds AUH-BOS. That’s a huge opportunity for them.

QR and EY just don't have the POS in India that EK does. EK will just offer those connections via a United hub now. Between ORD, EWR, or IAD there is no shortage of hubs in the northeast. A similar thing happened with TAP. When TP ended their partnership with B6 they strengthened their presence in United hubs.

Yes but May, June, July were 77.6, 85.3 and 84.9,‘something happened in August for it to dip so low in what is usually the busiest month of the year.
Makes me wonder for September, overall Middle East was marked by Massport is 7K lower, so I’m fearing something in the low 60’s
Last year it went from 61% to 44%, does not bode well even with improving travel conditions

Good Afternoon all

I was wondering if anyone out there has an idea of when the Terminal E extension is set to open this year?


thanks

13ifs40

13ifs40 wrote:

Good Afternoon all

I was wondering if anyone out there has an idea of when the Terminal E extension is set to open this year?


thanks

13ifs40

As of last report from Massport, the certificate of occupancy is expected to come in June, so we're 4 months away.

While I understand that B6 feeds pax through BOS to its partners, I have a hard time understanding that upwards of 40-50% of EK flights were connecting via BOS.

Air India’s aspirations are not hard to grasp with its massive order, and Boston will undoubtedly be on their route map. I’d wager with one of the soonest long-range planes they take delivery of. This means EK’s ‘Raison d'être’ at BOS will be a bit diminished once that happens. EK’s buy of smaller planes was a smart move, and I think we will see one of them in place of the 77W. The discussions above don’t bode well for a move to the A380, and Air India’s play only exacerbates the problem for them.

dtremit wrote:

Leaving some room for expansion, you could have A1-29, B30-79, C80-119, and E120-149.

I think the only renumbering that would make sense is Terminal C. All sorts of missing numbers and not ordered in a way that makes sense. Don't see the point in overlapping numers as you mention, people understand the concept of terminals/concourses but just need help getting there. I think it would be a lot harder to be a connecting passenger on B6 than any other carrier because the layout/numbering in C.

B752OS wrote:

13ifs40 wrote:

Good Afternoon all

I was wondering if anyone out there has an idea of when the Terminal E extension is set to open this year?


thanks

13ifs40

As of last report from Massport, the certificate of occupancy is expected to come in June, so we're 4 months away.

While I understand that B6 feeds pax through BOS to its partners, I have a hard time understanding that upwards of 40-50% of EK flights were connecting via BOS.

Feel free to dig up the CAPA analysis from 2015/2016. They did an entire analysis on all of EK’s North American flights. When BOS was running 2x daily 77Ws they were the second largest North American city (based on capacity) and had the highest connecting pax numbers over BOS than in any other NA market. With its 2x daily flights, they were upwards of 40% connecting pax across those two flights. I’m sure some months were lower, but August/September I could definitely see that number of connecting pax. I don’t know how they accessed that data, but they somehow had it. I’ve taken that flight over 40 times in my life, and from my own anecdotal observations the connecting pax on that flight was significant.

chrisnh wrote:

Air India’s aspirations are not hard to grasp with its massive order, and Boston will undoubtedly be on their route map. I’d wager with one of the soonest long-range planes they take delivery of. This means EK’s ‘Raison d'être’ at BOS will be a bit diminished once that happens. EK’s buy of smaller planes was a smart move, and I think we will see one of them in place of the 77W. The discussions above don’t bode well for a move to the A380, and Air India’s play only exacerbates the problem for them.

It's going to be pretty interesting to see how EK handles what AI does. AI has 76 wide body planes coming into their fleet over the next several years. EK has a whopping 195 wide body planes coming into their fleet over the next several years. You're right in that AI is going to look to expand their route map and that means more non-stop service to North America. BOS will not be the only EK city in the US that will suffer from an AI entrance. I'd imagine they (AI) will look at BOS, a return to LAX, SEA, DFW, IAH, ATL, and perhaps a place like DEN.

Even if AI comes they are likely to go to BOM or DEL; unless that's your destination, it's still a 1 stop trip for many. Those are huge areas but a large number of travelers from BOS are going elsewhere. I think there are many travelers, including Indians, who do their best to stay away from AI and would far prefer a gulf carrier barring any significant fare differentiation.

airbazar wrote:

S4 up-gauging from A321 to A330

Just to clarify, only the once weekly TER will be 332 this summer. The daily PDL will remain 32Q.

TER-OAK, TER-YUL, and TER-YYZ will also be operated by the 332, but TER-JFK will be 32Q.

johhn14 wrote:

Even if AI comes they are likely to go to BOM or DEL; unless that's your destination, it's still a 1 stop trip for many. Those are huge areas but a large number of travelers from BOS are going elsewhere. I think there are many travelers, including Indians, who do their best to stay away from AI and would far prefer a gulf carrier barring any significant fare differentiation.

A BOM or DEL flight adds more 1-stop options within India than what the ME3 offers.

That being said, I agree with the point that many travellers have an aversion towards Air India unless new management improves service.

B752OS wrote:

13ifs40 wrote:

Good Afternoon all

I was wondering if anyone out there has an idea of when the Terminal E extension is set to open this year?


thanks

13ifs40

As of last report from Massport, the certificate of occupancy is expected to come in June, so we're 4 months away.

Let’s just say August is a good month.

It’s a gorgeous facility though. Logan has always felt very form over function. The E extension feels world class inside. And that’s when it’s not even done yet

johhn14 wrote:

Even if AI comes they are likely to go to BOM or DEL; unless that's your destination, it's still a 1 stop trip for many. Those are huge areas but a large number of travelers from BOS are going elsewhere. I think there are many travelers, including Indians, who do their best to stay away from AI and would far prefer a gulf carrier barring any significant fare differentiation.

1. There will be fare difference, if current AI destinations are considered.
2. ME carriers reach only 10 cities in India, so a lot of other cities will be 2 stops for ME carriers, 1 stop for Indian carriers. A lot of these arent *small* cities either.

B752OS wrote:
13ifs40 wrote:
Good Afternoon all

I was wondering if anyone out there has an idea of when the Terminal E extension is set to open this year?


thanks

13ifs40


As of last report from Massport, the certificate of occupancy is expected to come in June, so we're 4 months away.

thanks for the info

by the way I was going by the airport this morning and noticed that gate 8 in E was missing, Any idea why and for how long?

chrisnh wrote:

Air India’s aspirations are not hard to grasp with its massive order, and Boston will undoubtedly be on their route map. I’d wager with one of the soonest long-range planes they take delivery of. This means EK’s ‘Raison d'être’ at BOS will be a bit diminished once that happens.

I see a few problems:
1) My understanding is that Indians don't like flying AI. There's a reason why AI's fares are significantly lower than everyone else.
2) Connecting in India can be a PITA. The Intl and domestic terminals at both BOM and DEL are not connected, requiring you to go landside to take a bus or a taxi to shuttle between terminal. This is not so much a big deal if you're booked all the way thru on AI because AI operates their domestic flights out of the International terminal (that's not confusing at all), but if the domestic leg is on a LCC, forget about it.
3) One of the main reasons why EK is so popular is because of DXB itself. The ease of connections, the on-time performance and last but not least, the shopping in DXB, especially jewelry and electronics.

Is there a market here for AI? For sure but I don't think it will be large enough to impact a single airlines. Keep in mind that pretty much everyone (EK, TK, QR, BA, AF, KL, DL, LH, UA), are currently connecting pax between BOS and India. A potential AI entrance will take a small bite out of all of them but not a big bite out any one of them, IMO.

airbazar wrote:

chrisnh wrote:

Air India’s aspirations are not hard to grasp with its massive order, and Boston will undoubtedly be on their route map. I’d wager with one of the soonest long-range planes they take delivery of. This means EK’s ‘Raison d'être’ at BOS will be a bit diminished once that happens.

I see a few problems:
1) My understanding is that Indians don't like flying AI. There's a reason why AI's fares are significantly lower than everyone else.
2) Connecting in India can be a PITA. The Intl and domestic terminals at both BOM and DEL are not connected, requiring you to go landside to take a bus or a taxi to shuttle between terminal. This is not so much a big deal if you're booked all the way thru on AI because AI operates their domestic flights out of the International terminal (that's not confusing at all), but if the domestic leg is on a LCC, forget about it.
3) One of the main reasons why EK is so popular is because of DXB itself. The ease of connections, the on-time performance and last but not least, the shopping in DXB, especially jewelry and electronics.

Is there a market here for AI? For sure but I don't think it will be large enough to impact a single airlines. Keep in mind that pretty much everyone (EK, TK, QR, BA, AF, KL, DL, LH, UA), are currently connecting pax between BOS and India. A potential AI entrance will take a small bite out of all of them but not a big bite out any one of them, IMO.

I agree, all very fair and valid points. I would state; however, that while true many Indians avoid AI and favor EK, QR, TK, BA, etc., there are Indians that still take AI; and with new ownership, management, strategy, fleet, interiors, etc. there is an improving chance it will start to be flown by more Indians. But to your point, even with the potential for increasing passengers, I don’t think it will make a large enough dent in the other carriers.

From a demand and numbers perspective, do we have any data on the size (O&D) for the BOS-India market?

FGITD wrote:

B752OS wrote:

13ifs40 wrote:

Good Afternoon all

I was wondering if anyone out there has an idea of when the Terminal E extension is set to open this year?


thanks

13ifs40

As of last report from Massport, the certificate of occupancy is expected to come in June, so we're 4 months away.

Let’s just say August is a good month.

It’s a gorgeous facility though. Logan has always felt very form over function. The E extension feels world class inside. And that’s when it’s not even done yet

Massport is pretty bad when it comes to sharing progress photos of their construction projects. We got a decent glimpse inside when President Biden spoke from the expansion a few months ago.

Do you know if all 4 of the new gates are going to have dual jet bridges as was seen in the plans?

B752OS wrote:

FGITD wrote:

B752OS wrote:

As of last report from Massport, the certificate of occupancy is expected to come in June, so we're 4 months away.

Let’s just say August is a good month.

It’s a gorgeous facility though. Logan has always felt very form over function. The E extension feels world class inside. And that’s when it’s not even done yet

Massport is pretty bad when it comes to sharing progress photos of their construction projects. We got a decent glimpse inside when President Biden spoke from the expansion a few months ago.

Do you know if all 4 of the new gates are going to have dual jet bridges as was seen in the plans?

Good question! I don’t actually know, last time I saw the plans was a few years ago and at that time it was still showing dual. And I believe the jetbridges are actually being put up soon, with some of the first ones going up in the next few weeks.

I also saw engineers putting up a new bridge at E8. E8 is the old 6, which to my knowledge was the oldest bridge at the terminal and possibly the entire airport. Used to joke that it was the skill test jetbridge since the operator had no cameras or alarms. You either had it or you didn’t.