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C777ER
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:50 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:44 am

Above the new B-C connector
 
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tlecam
Posts: 2079
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:38 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:22 am

EADSYABSOB73857 wrote:
B752OS wrote:
AviationScorpio wrote:
What about DL finally adding BOS-PDX and lining it up to where it can connect to the PDX-HND flight?


If they were to add BOS-PDX, it wouldn't be done with connecting to Asia in mind. They can and presumably do connect BOS-HND pax via DTW. The morning BOS-SEA flight arrives something like 10 minutes before SEA-HND departs, so they aren't connecting BOS-HND pax via SEA.

Who knows how traffic flows will adjust in the coming years, but does DL even need to launch a BOS-Asia route? KE flies BOS-ICN anywhere from 4 weekly to daily. That should suck up a lot of the BOS-Asia traffic.


KE is operating BOS-ICN daily most of the year, and they’ve upgauged it to a 777-300ER. While a flight to Asia on DL would be great, to your point, I don’t think there’s much of a need for it- I think DL has higher priorities for BOS across the Atlantic. I would think that BOS-ICN would be increased to anywhere from 10-14x weekly before they added a separate BOS-Asia flight.



The KE options to connect through ICN to Tokyo (HND or Narita) are non-existent at the moment. I’m traveling there next month. Delta has substantially fewer options to Tokyo (HND or NRT) compared to AA and UA, which are of course powered by their respective partners. It’s looking like I will be going there once or twice a year, so will be interesting to see what things look like as more Asia travel resumes.

On the flip side, I am going to experience The Room on ANA. So looking forward to that.
 
jplatts
Posts: 7147
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:31 am

airbazar wrote:
Magnum9 wrote:
All good points. Here’s a question I’m now wondering: *A has no TPAC presence from BOS. I understand LHR is a huge market from BOS with heavy premium demand, so there was little risk in UA testing the waters which we now see is working out well for them. Will we see a *A carrier start a TPAC from BOS to close that gap given ST have KE to ICN and OW have two carriers with JL & CX to NRT & HKG respectively. NH with a 788 to NRT? Thoughts?

I brought that up just a few posts up-thread. The market is just not as large so I suspect *A is content with connecting in SFO, ORD, etc. Having said that, post Pandemic who knows. It could very well be that there's money to be made on the route compared to other competing routes.


NH is unlikely to add BOS-TYO nonstop service with JFK and SEA being the only non-UA hub airports in the contiguous U.S. that currently have NH nonstop service to TYO. JFK is also in the same market as UA's EWR hub, and NH has UA's FF base in NYC due to the UA EWR hub to support NH JFK-HND/NRT nonstop service.

AA and DL also have a much bigger presence at BOS than UA does.

There is also already connectivity onto Star Alliance TPAC flights from BOS through EWR/ORD/SFO/YYZ.
 
B752OS
Posts: 1538
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:47 pm

Would Logan be able to operate at the level it currently does it 33L/15R was removed?
 
johhn14
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:57 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:13 pm

Given the fact that it's the longest runway (albeit by a slim margin) and these usage statistics I'd say it is very much required - https://www.massport.com/logan-airport/ ... unway-use/
 
FGITD
Posts: 2463
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Fri Jan 20, 2023 5:21 pm

johhn14 wrote:
Given the fact that it's the longest runway (albeit by a slim margin) and these usage statistics I'd say it is very much required - https://www.massport.com/logan-airport/ ... unway-use/


Anytime work is being done on the 4/22s, 15R/33L is the go to runway. 9/27 can be used by some of the long haul widebodies, but it's dependent on loads.
 
C777ER
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:50 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:10 pm

15R-33L is getting rehabbed this year, look for all the action on 4R-22L, 4L-22R & 9-27
 
tjerome
Posts: 515
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Sat Jan 21, 2023 6:54 am

B752OS wrote:
Would Logan be able to operate at the level it currently does it 33L/15R was removed?


According to this sheet from Massport, during 2022, 33L accounted for 10.6% of arrivals and 23.3% of departures for jets (props excluded). It does play an important role when the winds favor the 33L/27 configuration. Widebodies need the longer runway more often - for 4/9 and 22/27 configurations it isn't an issue since they've got 4R/22L used for landings in either scenario. You won't see an A380 landing on 27. Likewise you won't see them taking off on 27 either.

While 23.3% of the entire year doesn't seem like a whole lot, it was 32.2% in April, 31.5% in September, 33.3% in November, and 37.8% in December. So 33L is absolutely needed.

Take your question and change it to 15L/33R and that's the totally opposite answer.
 
B752OS
Posts: 1538
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Sat Jan 21, 2023 1:27 pm

Thanks for sharing the stats on the runway usage.

Avianca has put out the schedules for their return to Boston.

Bogota – Boston eff 27MAR23 5 weekly A320neo (Last served until March 2019)
AV222 BOG0720 – 1445BOS 32N 15
AV226 BOG1400 – 2125BOS 32N 26
AV228 BOG2310 – 0635+1BOS 32N 3

AV223 BOS0005 – 0510BOG 32N 37
AV229 BOS0800 – 1305BOG 32N 4
AV227 BOS1605 – 2110BOG 32N 15
 
Magnum9
Posts: 382
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:08 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Sat Jan 21, 2023 6:01 pm

jplatts wrote:
airbazar wrote:
Magnum9 wrote:
All good points. Here’s a question I’m now wondering: *A has no TPAC presence from BOS. I understand LHR is a huge market from BOS with heavy premium demand, so there was little risk in UA testing the waters which we now see is working out well for them. Will we see a *A carrier start a TPAC from BOS to close that gap given ST have KE to ICN and OW have two carriers with JL & CX to NRT & HKG respectively. NH with a 788 to NRT? Thoughts?

I brought that up just a few posts up-thread. The market is just not as large so I suspect *A is content with connecting in SFO, ORD, etc. Having said that, post Pandemic who knows. It could very well be that there's money to be made on the route compared to other competing routes.


NH is unlikely to add BOS-TYO nonstop service with JFK and SEA being the only non-UA hub airports in the contiguous U.S. that currently have NH nonstop service to TYO. JFK is also in the same market as UA's EWR hub, and NH has UA's FF base in NYC due to the UA EWR hub to support NH JFK-HND/NRT nonstop service.

AA and DL also have a much bigger presence at BOS than UA does.

There is also already connectivity onto Star Alliance TPAC flights from BOS through EWR/ORD/SFO/YYZ.


Your points are heard and I understand the pessimism. There’s counter arguments though:

1). When JL launched BOS-NRT the only non-AA hub in the contiguous U.S. that had JL nonstop service to TYO was SFO. Furthermore, when JL started BOS it wasn’t (and still isn’t) an AA hub, but look at the success. Airlines do take chances on cities that don’t have partner hubs.

jplatts wrote:
AA and DL also have a much bigger presence at BOS than UA does.


UA’s small presence didn’t stop them from jumping into the very competitive BOS-LHR market and by the numbers it looks like a huge success for them

jplatts wrote:
There is also already connectivity onto Star Alliance TPAC flights from BOS through EWR/ORD/SFO/YYZ.


If airlines followed this logic JL, CX & KE never would have launched BOS and you’d hardly see any new routes added anywhere around the world because the passenger could just connect through (insert X city here).

BOS has proven it has viable and consistent demand to Asia and can support additional growth to the TPAC market. Heck, I doubt many would not argue that JL and CX are two of the most conservative Asian carriers in terms starting service to cities in the U.S., yet BOS nailed them both.

I respect anyone who’s skeptical but by 2025 I predict *one* of the following:
A). CA BOS-PEK 789
B). NH BOS-TYO 788/789
C). SQ BOS-SIN A35K
*Wildcard - BR TPE-BOS 3x weekly 77W
 
EADSYABSOB73857
Posts: 440
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Sat Jan 21, 2023 6:15 pm

Any rumblings of Norse’s schedule for BOS-DUB/LGW? Announcement came out months ago, and I haven’t seen any schedules. They’re getting close before cutoff time for summer 2023. Same goes for BOS-WAW.
 
C777ER
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:50 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Sat Jan 21, 2023 6:48 pm

I have a feeling it’s going to be quite this summer with additions of any new carriers or routes, my 2cents, I think once the Term E extension opens at the end of the summer there will be a lot more additions for 24, Gate space and times are just to restricted for now
 
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VS4ever
Posts: 3062
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Sat Jan 21, 2023 8:58 pm

EADSYABSOB73857 wrote:
Any rumblings of Norse’s schedule for BOS-DUB/LGW? Announcement came out months ago, and I haven’t seen any schedules. They’re getting close before cutoff time for summer 2023. Same goes for BOS-WAW.

WAW is unlikely to happen for 23. LOT are in a bit of turmoil with their CEO issue etc.
As for Norse, I’ve never seen an official release. The routes were quoted on a secondary website and while they might have certain information, the fact that Norse themselves haven’t said anything since, either means delayed or it was just a rumor.
 
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adamh8297
Posts: 3520
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:28 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Sat Jan 21, 2023 9:27 pm

VS4ever wrote:
EADSYABSOB73857 wrote:
Any rumblings of Norse’s schedule for BOS-DUB/LGW? Announcement came out months ago, and I haven’t seen any schedules. They’re getting close before cutoff time for summer 2023. Same goes for BOS-WAW.

WAW is unlikely to happen for 23. LOT are in a bit of turmoil with their CEO issue etc.
As for Norse, I’ve never seen an official release. The routes were quoted on a secondary website and while they might have certain information, the fact that Norse themselves haven’t said anything since, either means delayed or it was just a rumor.



Norse said a couple weeks ago new destinations will be announced soon. The clock is ticking though....

Regarding LO, I read there was a slot request at WAW and BOS was mentioned as a possible destination. This may have been translated as happening when in reality it was just suggested.
 
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chrisnh
Posts: 4407
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Sun Jan 22, 2023 2:02 pm

Neighbors here in Nexton, SC (we moved from southern NH last year) flew up to Boston to catch the Icelandair flight. Here’s their ‘Dear Diary:’

Well so far Iceland is a bust. We have landed but there is horrible wind and we cannot get off the plane. (It has been 4 hrs.) Last we heard we were waiting for fire and search and rescue to come get us off the plane!
 
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VS4ever
Posts: 3062
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:02 am

Hi all,

Updated report for Boston Domestic traffic thru October from the T-100 reports. I am only looking at 21 and 22 at the moment, to show the progression out of Covid.

link is here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing
source data is the DOT published data through Oct 22

Summary of data:

First few tabs are summary of the entire performance across the entire network, then it works through 3 Tiers.
Big 6 are Tier 1, other Majors are Tier 2 and a couple of regionals that provide scheduled services are shown in Tier 3.
Big point of order.. You will not see regionals separated, using a different report, I figured out the number of flights for the regionals to their parent airlines. However…. No way to officially split out Seats and Passengers specifically, so I pro-rated the amounts based on the number of flights. Not the best, but the only option, to at least get an idea of the overall size of operations. Please don’t slate me for it, best I can do with the data available.
I also remove any extraneous data like cargo, diverts or charters, and that's how I show the data.
Airline list
Tier 1: AA,AS,B6,DL,UA,WN
Tier 2: F9,NK,G4,SY,HA
Tier 3: 9K,4B
4B = Boutique Air, the rest you should know!
Data Sets:
Current Month – Oct 22
Prior Month – Sept 22
Q4 2022
YTD 2022
2021
Combined 2021 and 2022
And Comparator of Oct 21 vs Oct 22.

You will see info on flights, seats, passengers, capacity %, miles, average stage lengths, air-time, etc. I've used about every metric they have in the specific file.

So I hope you find this useful.

Key Data from the report:

Oct Month
26,952 flights recorded, 3,382,986 seats and 2,780,312 passengers (82.2%), Avg of 103 passengers per flight across the network (up 8)
Departures are at 435 per day
Seats were up 7.3% overall, Pax up 10.5% Month to Month
Sep comparatives: 26,480 flights recorded, 3,152,698 seats and 2,515,527 passengers (79.8%), Avg of 95 passengers per flight across the network

Oct YTD
246,112 flights, 29,980,817 seats and 23,763,326 passengers (79.3%), avg pax count 97, which is running 5 above the average for 2021
Vs Oct 2021
22,415 flights (4,537 lower than 2022), 2,657,366 seats (726K lower than 22), 2,250,655 (530K lower than 2022). (84.7%, so loads were 2.5% lower in 22 vs 21)
27.3% increase in seats, but only a 23.5% increase in Pax

Airline Information (as noted, because of the direct inclusion of the Regionals. DL/AA and UA split maybe off, In order to match B6 domestically, DL pax overall need to be 21% higher (183K). In order for YX to have such an impact, pax would need to be almost 89% slanted to DL in totality, which is just not realistic. So numbers have been pro-rated on flight counts to get as close a picture as possible.

Highest number of passengers – Oct 22- combined direction
B6 –879,304 (109 per flight, 130 departures a day) – 6,989,617 YTD
DL – 695,752 (96 per flight, 117 departures a day) – 6,280,887 YTD
AA – 555,835 –(120 per flight, 75 departures a day) 4,990,019 YTD

Average stage length increased to 878 from 865 and is lower than Oct 21 (922)

Usual disclaimers apply, Data is only as good as what was submitted to the feds and I make no judgement or comment about profitability of routes, as the data just isn’t there.

for now, Enjoy and any questions, please let me know.
 
iyerhari
Posts: 1221
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Mon Jan 23, 2023 10:05 pm

BOS Dec-2022 numbers are OUT - which implies 2022 passenger numbers too.

Dec-22 Dec-21 % change
Domestic Charter 2,023 809 150.1%
Domestic Commuter 223,342 228,924 -2.4%
Domestic Jet 2,107,100 1,842,766 14.3%
Total Domestic 2,332,465 2,072,499 12.5%
Bermuda/Bahamas/Caribbean 130,082 94,116 38.2%
Canada 48,479 21,701 123.4%
Central America 27,177 29,646 -8.3%
Europe 268,299 141,746 89.3%
Middle East 53,704 36,489 47.2%
South America 6,207 - #DIV/0!
Trans-Pacific 18,522 5,785 220.2%
Australia - -
North Africa - - #DIV/0!
Other International - -
Total International 552,470 329,483 67.7%
General Aviation 7,680 7,390 3.9%
Total airport passengers 2,892,615 2,409,372 20.1%

If you compare the years across the last 5 years, BOS still has a long way left to go to catch-up with 2019, 2018 and slow and steady inching to 2017.

Month Year Total Pax International pax Year Total Pax International pax Year Total Pax International pax Year Total Pax International pax Year Total Pax International pax Year Total Pax International pax
Jan 2017 2,603,998 494,741 2018 2,576,261 468,439 2019 2,710,036 521,356 2020 2,940,985 579,541 2021 740,247 106,827 2022 1,720,697 262,119
Feb 2017 2,369,960 411,816 2018 2,605,207 422,707 2019 2,716,724 460,049 2020 2,890,513 487,442 2021 731,029 76,748 2022 1,893,653 243,817
Mar 2017 3,076,023 540,036 2018 3,197,326 578,154 2019 3,457,362 631,858 2020 1,634,101 274,615 2021 1,070,171 115,832 2022 2,830,353 399,323
Apr 2017 3,271,833 620,923 2018 3,508,607 613,000 2019 3,647,276 707,159 2020 95,352 5,843 2021 1,427,287 142,054 2022 3,092,088 498,315
May 2017 3,466,805 659,326 2018 3,705,129 672,304 2019 3,879,343 775,024 2020 203,328 6,216 2021 1,744,185 144,375 2022 3,337,936 560,448
Jun 2017 3,552,952 710,313 2018 3,843,131 742,437 2019 3,946,406 847,877 2020 438,266 18,647 2021 2,121,185 206,547 2022 3,411,349 676,880
Jul 2017 3,683,573 764,325 2018 3,999,933 798,900 2019 4,072,082 891,642 2020 738,135 72,351 2021 2,570,680 304,010 2022 3,554,097 755,204
Aug 2017 3,757,903 772,812 2018 4,044,126 821,417 2019 4,120,937 898,759 2020 701,627 73,699 2021 2,587,063 350,377 2022 3,530,930 760,913
Sep 2017 3,178,011 640,539 2018 3,393,644 697,082 2019 3,547,546 724,791 2020 633,357 65,793 2021 2,226,035 260,481 2022 3,276,799 652,471
Oct 2017 3,431,263 581,481 2018 3,677,923 651,839 2019 3,771,212 686,063 2020 781,755 69,357 2021 2,579,783 244,004 2022 3,489,728 604,372
Nov 2017 3,089,200 483,354 2018 3,296,694 539,610 2019 3,264,105 552,066 2020 755,877 72,352 2021 2,471,462 269,238 2022 3,060,571 483,668
Dec 2017 2,930,898 483,354 2018 3,093,944 577,998 2019 3,389,382 621,349 2020 801,430 112,436 2021 2,409,372 329,483 2022 2,892,615 552,470
38,412,419 7,163,020 40,941,925 7,583,887 42,522,411 8,317,993 12,618,128 1,838,292 22,678,499 2,549,976 36,090,816 6,450,000

BUT, 2020 was a CRATER! and once is so deep down, it will take time to bounce back.
 
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tlecam
Posts: 2079
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:38 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Mon Jan 23, 2023 11:18 pm

iyerhari wrote:
BOS Dec-2022 numbers are OUT - which implies 2022 passenger numbers too.

Dec-22 Dec-21 % change
Domestic Charter 2,023 809 150.1%
Domestic Commuter 223,342 228,924 -2.4%
Domestic Jet 2,107,100 1,842,766 14.3%
Total Domestic 2,332,465 2,072,499 12.5%
Bermuda/Bahamas/Caribbean 130,082 94,116 38.2%
Canada 48,479 21,701 123.4%
Central America 27,177 29,646 -8.3%
Europe 268,299 141,746 89.3%
Middle East 53,704 36,489 47.2%
South America 6,207 - #DIV/0!
Trans-Pacific 18,522 5,785 220.2%
Australia - -
North Africa - - #DIV/0!
Other International - -
Total International 552,470 329,483 67.7%
General Aviation 7,680 7,390 3.9%
Total airport passengers 2,892,615 2,409,372 20.1%

If you compare the years across the last 5 years, BOS still has a long way left to go to catch-up with 2019, 2018 and slow and steady inching to 2017.

Month Year Total Pax International pax Year Total Pax International pax Year Total Pax International pax Year Total Pax International pax Year Total Pax International pax Year Total Pax International pax
Jan 2017 2,603,998 494,741 2018 2,576,261 468,439 2019 2,710,036 521,356 2020 2,940,985 579,541 2021 740,247 106,827 2022 1,720,697 262,119
Feb 2017 2,369,960 411,816 2018 2,605,207 422,707 2019 2,716,724 460,049 2020 2,890,513 487,442 2021 731,029 76,748 2022 1,893,653 243,817
Mar 2017 3,076,023 540,036 2018 3,197,326 578,154 2019 3,457,362 631,858 2020 1,634,101 274,615 2021 1,070,171 115,832 2022 2,830,353 399,323
Apr 2017 3,271,833 620,923 2018 3,508,607 613,000 2019 3,647,276 707,159 2020 95,352 5,843 2021 1,427,287 142,054 2022 3,092,088 498,315
May 2017 3,466,805 659,326 2018 3,705,129 672,304 2019 3,879,343 775,024 2020 203,328 6,216 2021 1,744,185 144,375 2022 3,337,936 560,448
Jun 2017 3,552,952 710,313 2018 3,843,131 742,437 2019 3,946,406 847,877 2020 438,266 18,647 2021 2,121,185 206,547 2022 3,411,349 676,880
Jul 2017 3,683,573 764,325 2018 3,999,933 798,900 2019 4,072,082 891,642 2020 738,135 72,351 2021 2,570,680 304,010 2022 3,554,097 755,204
Aug 2017 3,757,903 772,812 2018 4,044,126 821,417 2019 4,120,937 898,759 2020 701,627 73,699 2021 2,587,063 350,377 2022 3,530,930 760,913
Sep 2017 3,178,011 640,539 2018 3,393,644 697,082 2019 3,547,546 724,791 2020 633,357 65,793 2021 2,226,035 260,481 2022 3,276,799 652,471
Oct 2017 3,431,263 581,481 2018 3,677,923 651,839 2019 3,771,212 686,063 2020 781,755 69,357 2021 2,579,783 244,004 2022 3,489,728 604,372
Nov 2017 3,089,200 483,354 2018 3,296,694 539,610 2019 3,264,105 552,066 2020 755,877 72,352 2021 2,471,462 269,238 2022 3,060,571 483,668
Dec 2017 2,930,898 483,354 2018 3,093,944 577,998 2019 3,389,382 621,349 2020 801,430 112,436 2021 2,409,372 329,483 2022 2,892,615 552,470
38,412,419 7,163,020 40,941,925 7,583,887 42,522,411 8,317,993 12,618,128 1,838,292 22,678,499 2,549,976 36,090,816 6,450,000

BUT, 2020 was a CRATER! and once is so deep down, it will take time to bounce back.


I was interested by the domestic numbers - Dec domestic traffic on RJs dropped by 5k pax while jets increased by ~250k pax. Seems to tell a story of more flights and on upgauging. It would be interesting to see the breakdown of flight and aircraft changes by marketing carrier (e.g. outsourced RJ flying counts towards DL or AA).


Europe numbers continue to be eye popping as that market continues its return to normalcy.

Thank you for doing this!
 
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VS4ever
Posts: 3062
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Mon Jan 23, 2023 11:47 pm

tlecam wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
BOS Dec-2022 numbers are OUT - which implies 2022 passenger numbers too.

Dec-22 Dec-21 % change
Domestic Charter 2,023 809 150.1%
Domestic Commuter 223,342 228,924 -2.4%
Domestic Jet 2,107,100 1,842,766 14.3%
Total Domestic 2,332,465 2,072,499 12.5%
Bermuda/Bahamas/Caribbean 130,082 94,116 38.2%
Canada 48,479 21,701 123.4%
Central America 27,177 29,646 -8.3%
Europe 268,299 141,746 89.3%
Middle East 53,704 36,489 47.2%
South America 6,207 - #DIV/0!
Trans-Pacific 18,522 5,785 220.2%
Australia - -
North Africa - - #DIV/0!
Other International - -
Total International 552,470 329,483 67.7%
General Aviation 7,680 7,390 3.9%
Total airport passengers 2,892,615 2,409,372 20.1%

If you compare the years across the last 5 years, BOS still has a long way left to go to catch-up with 2019, 2018 and slow and steady inching to 2017.

Month Year Total Pax International pax Year Total Pax International pax Year Total Pax International pax Year Total Pax International pax Year Total Pax International pax Year Total Pax International pax
Jan 2017 2,603,998 494,741 2018 2,576,261 468,439 2019 2,710,036 521,356 2020 2,940,985 579,541 2021 740,247 106,827 2022 1,720,697 262,119
Feb 2017 2,369,960 411,816 2018 2,605,207 422,707 2019 2,716,724 460,049 2020 2,890,513 487,442 2021 731,029 76,748 2022 1,893,653 243,817
Mar 2017 3,076,023 540,036 2018 3,197,326 578,154 2019 3,457,362 631,858 2020 1,634,101 274,615 2021 1,070,171 115,832 2022 2,830,353 399,323
Apr 2017 3,271,833 620,923 2018 3,508,607 613,000 2019 3,647,276 707,159 2020 95,352 5,843 2021 1,427,287 142,054 2022 3,092,088 498,315
May 2017 3,466,805 659,326 2018 3,705,129 672,304 2019 3,879,343 775,024 2020 203,328 6,216 2021 1,744,185 144,375 2022 3,337,936 560,448
Jun 2017 3,552,952 710,313 2018 3,843,131 742,437 2019 3,946,406 847,877 2020 438,266 18,647 2021 2,121,185 206,547 2022 3,411,349 676,880
Jul 2017 3,683,573 764,325 2018 3,999,933 798,900 2019 4,072,082 891,642 2020 738,135 72,351 2021 2,570,680 304,010 2022 3,554,097 755,204
Aug 2017 3,757,903 772,812 2018 4,044,126 821,417 2019 4,120,937 898,759 2020 701,627 73,699 2021 2,587,063 350,377 2022 3,530,930 760,913
Sep 2017 3,178,011 640,539 2018 3,393,644 697,082 2019 3,547,546 724,791 2020 633,357 65,793 2021 2,226,035 260,481 2022 3,276,799 652,471
Oct 2017 3,431,263 581,481 2018 3,677,923 651,839 2019 3,771,212 686,063 2020 781,755 69,357 2021 2,579,783 244,004 2022 3,489,728 604,372
Nov 2017 3,089,200 483,354 2018 3,296,694 539,610 2019 3,264,105 552,066 2020 755,877 72,352 2021 2,471,462 269,238 2022 3,060,571 483,668
Dec 2017 2,930,898 483,354 2018 3,093,944 577,998 2019 3,389,382 621,349 2020 801,430 112,436 2021 2,409,372 329,483 2022 2,892,615 552,470
38,412,419 7,163,020 40,941,925 7,583,887 42,522,411 8,317,993 12,618,128 1,838,292 22,678,499 2,549,976 36,090,816 6,450,000

BUT, 2020 was a CRATER! and once is so deep down, it will take time to bounce back.


I was interested by the domestic numbers - Dec domestic traffic on RJs dropped by 5k pax while jets increased by ~250k pax. Seems to tell a story of more flights and on upgauging. It would be interesting to see the breakdown of flight and aircraft changes by marketing carrier (e.g. outsourced RJ flying counts towards DL or AA).


Europe numbers continue to be eye popping as that market continues its return to normalcy.

Thank you for doing this!


Ask this question to me in March when I get the T-100’s for December. Will be easy to show the difference. I’m wondering if cancellations had something to do with it, with the RJ’s getting hit hard, but also November year over year for jet was up 360K. Oct was a mere 579K, which I can check out as I do have the data for that.
 
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VS4ever
Posts: 3062
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Mon Jan 23, 2023 11:58 pm

VS4ever wrote:
tlecam wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
BOS Dec-2022 numbers are OUT - which implies 2022 passenger numbers too.

Dec-22 Dec-21 % change
Domestic Charter 2,023 809 150.1%
Domestic Commuter 223,342 228,924 -2.4%
Domestic Jet 2,107,100 1,842,766 14.3%
Total Domestic 2,332,465 2,072,499 12.5%
Bermuda/Bahamas/Caribbean 130,082 94,116 38.2%
Canada 48,479 21,701 123.4%
Central America 27,177 29,646 -8.3%
Europe 268,299 141,746 89.3%
Middle East 53,704 36,489 47.2%
South America 6,207 - #DIV/0!
Trans-Pacific 18,522 5,785 220.2%
Australia - -
North Africa - - #DIV/0!
Other International - -
Total International 552,470 329,483 67.7%
General Aviation 7,680 7,390 3.9%
Total airport passengers 2,892,615 2,409,372 20.1%

If you compare the years across the last 5 years, BOS still has a long way left to go to catch-up with 2019, 2018 and slow and steady inching to 2017.

Month Year Total Pax International pax Year Total Pax International pax Year Total Pax International pax Year Total Pax International pax Year Total Pax International pax Year Total Pax International pax
Jan 2017 2,603,998 494,741 2018 2,576,261 468,439 2019 2,710,036 521,356 2020 2,940,985 579,541 2021 740,247 106,827 2022 1,720,697 262,119
Feb 2017 2,369,960 411,816 2018 2,605,207 422,707 2019 2,716,724 460,049 2020 2,890,513 487,442 2021 731,029 76,748 2022 1,893,653 243,817
Mar 2017 3,076,023 540,036 2018 3,197,326 578,154 2019 3,457,362 631,858 2020 1,634,101 274,615 2021 1,070,171 115,832 2022 2,830,353 399,323
Apr 2017 3,271,833 620,923 2018 3,508,607 613,000 2019 3,647,276 707,159 2020 95,352 5,843 2021 1,427,287 142,054 2022 3,092,088 498,315
May 2017 3,466,805 659,326 2018 3,705,129 672,304 2019 3,879,343 775,024 2020 203,328 6,216 2021 1,744,185 144,375 2022 3,337,936 560,448
Jun 2017 3,552,952 710,313 2018 3,843,131 742,437 2019 3,946,406 847,877 2020 438,266 18,647 2021 2,121,185 206,547 2022 3,411,349 676,880
Jul 2017 3,683,573 764,325 2018 3,999,933 798,900 2019 4,072,082 891,642 2020 738,135 72,351 2021 2,570,680 304,010 2022 3,554,097 755,204
Aug 2017 3,757,903 772,812 2018 4,044,126 821,417 2019 4,120,937 898,759 2020 701,627 73,699 2021 2,587,063 350,377 2022 3,530,930 760,913
Sep 2017 3,178,011 640,539 2018 3,393,644 697,082 2019 3,547,546 724,791 2020 633,357 65,793 2021 2,226,035 260,481 2022 3,276,799 652,471
Oct 2017 3,431,263 581,481 2018 3,677,923 651,839 2019 3,771,212 686,063 2020 781,755 69,357 2021 2,579,783 244,004 2022 3,489,728 604,372
Nov 2017 3,089,200 483,354 2018 3,296,694 539,610 2019 3,264,105 552,066 2020 755,877 72,352 2021 2,471,462 269,238 2022 3,060,571 483,668
Dec 2017 2,930,898 483,354 2018 3,093,944 577,998 2019 3,389,382 621,349 2020 801,430 112,436 2021 2,409,372 329,483 2022 2,892,615 552,470
38,412,419 7,163,020 40,941,925 7,583,887 42,522,411 8,317,993 12,618,128 1,838,292 22,678,499 2,549,976 36,090,816 6,450,000

BUT, 2020 was a CRATER! and once is so deep down, it will take time to bounce back.


I was interested by the domestic numbers - Dec domestic traffic on RJs dropped by 5k pax while jets increased by ~250k pax. Seems to tell a story of more flights and on upgauging. It would be interesting to see the breakdown of flight and aircraft changes by marketing carrier (e.g. outsourced RJ flying counts towards DL or AA).


Europe numbers continue to be eye popping as that market continues its return to normalcy.

Thank you for doing this!


Ask this question to me in March when I get the T-100’s for December. Will be easy to show the difference. I’m wondering if cancellations had something to do with it, with the RJ’s getting hit hard, but also November year over year for jet was up 360K. Oct was a mere 579K, which I can check out as I do have the data for that.


For October, while my numbers don’t line up perfectly they are directionally similar
It’s weird actually.
CRJ flying was down 22K pax and 389 flights
However E175 was down 10K pax, but flights went up by 240. Part of this issue was BOS-HPN on YX for DL, which ran 7,556 seats on 102 flights but a whopping 947 pax total for an average of 9 and a 12.5 load (yes you did read that right) so it cratered the average.

Fun times and plenty of space if you wanted to fly to White Plains.
 
AA321T
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:22 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Tue Jan 24, 2023 5:09 am

Anyone know why B6 flight 2104 BOS-LGW diverted back to BOS tonight? We were behind them on landing.
 
Magnum9
Posts: 382
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:08 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Tue Jan 24, 2023 2:52 pm

I’ve seen it discussed in the Norse forum though I don’t believe Norse have officially announced BOS. If they do - that will make 7 carriers on BOS-LON. I know LON has heavy demand from BOS, but 7 airlines? That’s more than LAX and JFK.

Does anyone recall when Norwegian flew BOS-LGW how many airlines were flying BOS-LON then?
 
TheChickenman
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Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Tue Jan 24, 2023 6:01 pm

Magnum9 wrote:
Does anyone recall when Norwegian flew BOS-LGW how many airlines were flying BOS-LON then?

I believe it would have been 4 or 5: no UA, AA (may have started their route for a bit pre-covid) or B6 yet. That would leave DL, BA, VS, and IIRC Air Primera flew to STN for a time as the other carriers.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Tue Jan 24, 2023 7:21 pm

jplatts wrote:
NH is unlikely to add BOS-TYO nonstop service with JFK and SEA being the only non-UA hub airports in the contiguous U.S. that currently have NH nonstop service to TYO. JFK is also in the same market as UA's EWR hub, and NH has UA's FF base in NYC due to the UA EWR hub to support NH JFK-HND/NRT nonstop service.

AA and DL also have a much bigger presence at BOS than UA does.

There is also already connectivity onto Star Alliance TPAC flights from BOS through EWR/ORD/SFO/YYZ.


These are the exact same flawed arguments that were once used to justify why UA didn't fly BOS-LHR.
UA presence at BOS in terms of number of flights and seats is irrelevant. What matters is whether their FF customers want the route. For the BOS-LHR flight I think the answer has proven to be a resounding yes. Only UA knows what the market is for BOS-TYO amongst its FF's and corporate clients.
UA has an eye popping 100 787's and 45 A359's in their orderbook. There will be a lot of new long haul routes. I'm hoping 1 or 2 will be from Boston :bigthumbsup:
 
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VS4ever
Posts: 3062
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Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Tue Jan 24, 2023 9:35 pm

TheChickenman wrote:
Magnum9 wrote:
Does anyone recall when Norwegian flew BOS-LGW how many airlines were flying BOS-LON then?

I believe it would have been 4 or 5: no UA, AA (may have started their route for a bit pre-covid) or B6 yet. That would leave DL, BA, VS, and IIRC Air Primera flew to STN for a time as the other carriers.


The above is correct.

Back in 2018 it was the following (given that STN is counted as LON)

BOS-LGW - DY
BOS-LHR - BA
BOS-LHR - DL
BOS-LHR - VS
BOS-STN - PF

Total Carriers to the UK were 6 as MT were flying BOS-MAN alongside VS.
 
Magnum9
Posts: 382
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Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Tue Jan 24, 2023 9:43 pm

VS4ever wrote:
TheChickenman wrote:
Magnum9 wrote:
Does anyone recall when Norwegian flew BOS-LGW how many airlines were flying BOS-LON then?

I believe it would have been 4 or 5: no UA, AA (may have started their route for a bit pre-covid) or B6 yet. That would leave DL, BA, VS, and IIRC Air Primera flew to STN for a time as the other carriers.


The above is correct.

Back in 2018 it was the following (given that STN is counted as LON)

BOS-LGW - DY
BOS-LHR - BA
BOS-LHR - DL
BOS-LHR - VS
BOS-STN - PF

Total Carriers to the UK were 6 as MT were flying BOS-MAN alongside VS.


I’m rooting for BOS and should Norse jump in my hope is that 7 carriers can co-exist and that it doesn’t come at the expense of BA’s A380, which I believe is the only one BOS sees currently (though BOS alongside JFK are *rumored* to be LH’s first two U.S. destinations upon their reactivation).
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:30 pm

airbazar wrote:
jplatts wrote:
NH is unlikely to add BOS-TYO nonstop service with JFK and SEA being the only non-UA hub airports in the contiguous U.S. that currently have NH nonstop service to TYO. JFK is also in the same market as UA's EWR hub, and NH has UA's FF base in NYC due to the UA EWR hub to support NH JFK-HND/NRT nonstop service.

AA and DL also have a much bigger presence at BOS than UA does.

There is also already connectivity onto Star Alliance TPAC flights from BOS through EWR/ORD/SFO/YYZ.


These are the exact same flawed arguments that were once used to justify why UA didn't fly BOS-LHR.
UA presence at BOS in terms of number of flights and seats is irrelevant. What matters is whether their FF customers want the route. For the BOS-LHR flight I think the answer has proven to be a resounding yes. Only UA knows what the market is for BOS-TYO amongst its FF's and corporate clients.
UA has an eye popping 100 787's and 45 A359's in their orderbook. There will be a lot of new long haul routes. I'm hoping 1 or 2 will be from Boston :bigthumbsup:


UA also has 50 XLR's on the books.... Maybe they could do BOS-GVA on behalf of the JV with LH,AC and LX.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:45 pm

 
airbazar
Posts: 11459
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:51 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
airbazar wrote:
jplatts wrote:
NH is unlikely to add BOS-TYO nonstop service with JFK and SEA being the only non-UA hub airports in the contiguous U.S. that currently have NH nonstop service to TYO. JFK is also in the same market as UA's EWR hub, and NH has UA's FF base in NYC due to the UA EWR hub to support NH JFK-HND/NRT nonstop service.

AA and DL also have a much bigger presence at BOS than UA does.

There is also already connectivity onto Star Alliance TPAC flights from BOS through EWR/ORD/SFO/YYZ.


These are the exact same flawed arguments that were once used to justify why UA didn't fly BOS-LHR.
UA presence at BOS in terms of number of flights and seats is irrelevant. What matters is whether their FF customers want the route. For the BOS-LHR flight I think the answer has proven to be a resounding yes. Only UA knows what the market is for BOS-TYO amongst its FF's and corporate clients.
UA has an eye popping 100 787's and 45 A359's in their orderbook. There will be a lot of new long haul routes. I'm hoping 1 or 2 will be from Boston :bigthumbsup:


UA also has 50 XLR's on the books.... Maybe they could do BOS-GVA on behalf of the JV with LH,AC and LX.


It's just crazy. No matter how you slice it it's a huge expansion assuming they take delivery of all of them. I wouldn't be shocked if in a few years they are looking for gate space in terminal E, like Delta.
 
Magnum9
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Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Tue Jan 24, 2023 11:47 pm

Source for BOS (along with JFK & LAX) making LH’s shortlist of A380 destination - https://simpleflying.com/lufthansa-reve ... ing-plans/
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:06 am

Magnum9 wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
TheChickenman wrote:
I believe it would have been 4 or 5: no UA, AA (may have started their route for a bit pre-covid) or B6 yet. That would leave DL, BA, VS, and IIRC Air Primera flew to STN for a time as the other carriers.


The above is correct.

Back in 2018 it was the following (given that STN is counted as LON)

BOS-LGW - DY
BOS-LHR - BA
BOS-LHR - DL
BOS-LHR - VS
BOS-STN - PF

Total Carriers to the UK were 6 as MT were flying BOS-MAN alongside VS.


I’m rooting for BOS and should Norse jump in my hope is that 7 carriers can co-exist and that it doesn’t come at the expense of BA’s A380, which I believe is the only one BOS sees currently (though BOS alongside JFK are *rumored* to be LH’s first two U.S. destinations upon their reactivation).


The one thing that DY proved was that people would fly from LGW in decent quantities given they were flying 344 seat aircraft, B6 is less than 1/2 of that on their A321's with 138. Profits, are a whole different matter of course. The two airports are very different in their make up. So you have 6 going to LHR and 2 going to LGW.

That year DY flew 104,000 pax out of LGW
LHR was 414K across the 3 airlines noted above.

For 22
Unlike our friends at the DOT, who have the data and hold it back, the equivalent in the UK (CAA) publish their reports already through November. Unfortunately they only do pax counts in totality and no flight counts. But we can shed some light.on things. My last data point of July has the month number around 2% different from what i have from the Feds, so let's say we are at the feds number of 391K (the lowest of the two)
From the CAA
Aug - 87,648
Sep - 84,726
Oct - 89,941
Nov - 63,843

Another 326,158, for a total through Nov of 717,843

Of the 391K so far, total pax and average loads for the whole year
DL - 48,727- 63.3%
UA - 26,092 - 71.6%
AA - 64,155 - 56.7%
BA - 196,633 - 71.3%
VS - 55,578 - 56.8%

But basically LHR is on fire right now,

I think Norse can probably siphon off some numbers to LGW, DY were running 20K a month. B6 much less than that. around 6K LGW is a leisure airport primarily, but can pick up South London and area, which will include plenty with money which a schlep to LHR is a bit of a pain. Lower margins for sure, but if you pitch the service at that level, it can be done...
 
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chrisnh
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Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:38 am

Magnum9 wrote:
Source for BOS (along with JFK & LAX) making LH’s shortlist of A380 destination - https://simpleflying.com/lufthansa-reve ... ing-plans/


BOS was slated to get the 380 to MUC when LH had more than the three frames they're bringing back now. If BOS is named and does get the A380, that will be a mighty endorsement indeed.
 
nascar1
Posts: 222
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:32 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:40 pm

LEVEL is adding a 4th weekly flight from BCN starting June 5th.

https://twitter.com/AeroinfoBCN/status/1618223757121949701?s=20&t=G2nfWPGe9rEXlw0SDJM60g
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:17 pm

adamh8297 wrote:


The drain of large corporations from CT to NYC or Boston continues…. If Travelers and The Hartford follow Aetna, various GE entities and others, the state is going to be in tough shape. Unfortunately, aligned with broader macroeconomic trends.


Will be interesting to see if Lego commands more corporate traffic to CPH. Their workforce is substantial but not huge.
 
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tlecam
Posts: 2079
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Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:19 pm

chrisnh wrote:
Magnum9 wrote:
Source for BOS (along with JFK & LAX) making LH’s shortlist of A380 destination - https://simpleflying.com/lufthansa-reve ... ing-plans/


BOS was slated to get the 380 to MUC when LH had more than the three frames they're bringing back now. If BOS is named and does get the A380, that will be a mighty endorsement indeed.


It’s somewhat interesting that BOS is even in the same discussion as NYC and LAX, both substantially larger markets in general.
 
XenoCyber
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:32 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Thu Jan 26, 2023 12:25 am

tlecam wrote:
chrisnh wrote:
Magnum9 wrote:
Source for BOS (along with JFK & LAX) making LH’s shortlist of A380 destination - https://simpleflying.com/lufthansa-reve ... ing-plans/


BOS was slated to get the 380 to MUC when LH had more than the three frames they're bringing back now. If BOS is named and does get the A380, that will be a mighty endorsement indeed.


It’s somewhat interesting that BOS is even in the same discussion as NYC and LAX, both substantially larger markets in general.


Boston has the extra appeal of being a short flight for a 4 engine aircraft. Along with the fact that it can handle the extra seats especially up front.
 
Magnum9
Posts: 382
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:08 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Thu Jan 26, 2023 3:00 am

tlecam wrote:
chrisnh wrote:
Magnum9 wrote:
Source for BOS (along with JFK & LAX) making LH’s shortlist of A380 destination - https://simpleflying.com/lufthansa-reve ... ing-plans/


BOS was slated to get the 380 to MUC when LH had more than the three frames they're bringing back now. If BOS is named and does get the A380, that will be a mighty endorsement indeed.


It’s somewhat interesting that BOS is even in the same discussion as NYC and LAX, both substantially larger markets in general.


I agree. But if I recall when LH announced the re-activation of the A346 out of MUC in late 2021 to bring back a F cabin offering that BOS was one of the first destinations announced along with JFK, so on the other hand I’m not shocked. *A TATL from BOS is a force to be reckoned with. I think LH does very well at BOS.
 
EADSYABSOB73857
Posts: 440
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Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Thu Jan 26, 2023 7:29 am

airbazar wrote:
jplatts wrote:
NH is unlikely to add BOS-TYO nonstop service with JFK and SEA being the only non-UA hub airports in the contiguous U.S. that currently have NH nonstop service to TYO. JFK is also in the same market as UA's EWR hub, and NH has UA's FF base in NYC due to the UA EWR hub to support NH JFK-HND/NRT nonstop service.

AA and DL also have a much bigger presence at BOS than UA does.

There is also already connectivity onto Star Alliance TPAC flights from BOS through EWR/ORD/SFO/YYZ.


These are the exact same flawed arguments that were once used to justify why UA didn't fly BOS-LHR.
UA presence at BOS in terms of number of flights and seats is irrelevant. What matters is whether their FF customers want the route. For the BOS-LHR flight I think the answer has proven to be a resounding yes. Only UA knows what the market is for BOS-TYO amongst its FF's and corporate clients.
UA has an eye popping 100 787's and 45 A359's in their orderbook. There will be a lot of new long haul routes. I'm hoping 1 or 2 will be from Boston :bigthumbsup:


I disagree- based on your logic here, any airline should start a flight out of any city if that ‘direct’ fight financially makes sense. There’s a lot more that goes into that. I’m just as much of a Star Alliance fan as you, but the reality is; 1) UA is more conservative with P2P flights than the other majors; and 2) UA and other Star airlines don’t play nice together. In addition, I would imagine there is a major cost reduction, as well as a revenue enhancement for UA (or any other airline) flowing traffic over their hubs. That’s great that they have all those plane deliveries on the books, but I just don’t see them starting a hub or even expanding their flight portfolio out of BOS. Show us evidence where they have alluded to that…
 
XenoCyber
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:32 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:28 am

EADSYABSOB73857 wrote:
airbazar wrote:
jplatts wrote:
NH is unlikely to add BOS-TYO nonstop service with JFK and SEA being the only non-UA hub airports in the contiguous U.S. that currently have NH nonstop service to TYO. JFK is also in the same market as UA's EWR hub, and NH has UA's FF base in NYC due to the UA EWR hub to support NH JFK-HND/NRT nonstop service.

AA and DL also have a much bigger presence at BOS than UA does.

There is also already connectivity onto Star Alliance TPAC flights from BOS through EWR/ORD/SFO/YYZ.


These are the exact same flawed arguments that were once used to justify why UA didn't fly BOS-LHR.
UA presence at BOS in terms of number of flights and seats is irrelevant. What matters is whether their FF customers want the route. For the BOS-LHR flight I think the answer has proven to be a resounding yes. Only UA knows what the market is for BOS-TYO amongst its FF's and corporate clients.
UA has an eye popping 100 787's and 45 A359's in their orderbook. There will be a lot of new long haul routes. I'm hoping 1 or 2 will be from Boston :bigthumbsup:


I disagree- based on your logic here, any airline should start a flight out of any city if that ‘direct’ fight financially makes sense. There’s a lot more that goes into that. I’m just as much of a Star Alliance fan as you, but the reality is; 1) UA is more conservative with P2P flights than the other majors; and 2) UA and other Star airlines don’t play nice together. In addition, I would imagine there is a major cost reduction, as well as a revenue enhancement for UA (or any other airline) flowing traffic over their hubs. That’s great that they have all those plane deliveries on the books, but I just don’t see them starting a hub or even expanding their flight portfolio out of BOS. Show us evidence where they have alluded to that…



Personally I fly United and *A out of Boston all the time. Boston's location is not good for a domestic hub but great for an international one. With the growth in BOS, UA might justify more p2p intl flights if they feel threatened by DL or B6. LHR is the example but I could see other cities over time. Be it TLV which is a flagship route for them or other routes that don't have a *A hub on the other end but have enough traffic that they can fill a plane.

Regarding planes on the books the A359s are not likely to happen and if they do they are 10+years out. On the other hand they have 100+100 options on the 787 so the increase in planes is even more valid. Combined with Kirby wanting to make United the biggest airline I think we might just see an increase in BOS p2p flying if the buisness case is right. not likely but definitely higher chance then in the past.
 
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chrisnh
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Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Thu Jan 26, 2023 1:39 pm

Perhaps more than anything else, the TIMING of UA’s LHR-BOS flight (being second-last of the day leaving LHR) makes it a winner for them this time around.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Thu Jan 26, 2023 2:53 pm

EADSYABSOB73857 wrote:
I disagree- based on your logic here, any airline should start a flight out of any city if that ‘direct’ fight financially makes sense.

And they often do. Historically UA hasn't been one of them because as you pointed out they are the most conservative of the U.S. legacies but I suspect that may change. LHR-BOS is not as p-2-p as it seems. LHR is a major station for UA and a quasi-star hub (have you used T2?), so BOS is more like a spoke.
EADSYABSOB73857 wrote:
UA and other Star airlines don’t play nice together.

Actually they do. UA, AC, and LH have a JV across the Atlantic, and UA and ANA have a JV across the Pacific.
EADSYABSOB73857 wrote:
Show us evidence where they have alluded to that…

Call it a hunch ;)
XenoCyber wrote:
Personally I fly United and *A out of Boston all the time. Boston's location is not good for a domestic hub but great for an international one. With the growth in BOS, UA might justify more p2p intl flights if they feel threatened by DL or B6.

I don't think there's a lot of potential going east because of the JV with LH. Maybe as someone alluded to, BOS-GVA. The newfound relationship with EK probably eliminates BOS-India. So it leaves BOS-TYO or possibly BOS-China as the next logical options, IMO.
And it's not just the sheer number of planes in the order books. It's the lack of "slots" at EWR.
 
XenoCyber
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Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:14 pm

airbazar wrote:
I don't think there's a lot of potential going east because of the JV with LH. Maybe as someone alluded to, BOS-GVA. The newfound relationship with EK probably eliminates BOS-India. So it leaves BOS-TYO or possibly BOS-China as the next logical options, IMO.
And it's not just the sheer number of planes in the order books. It's the lack of "slots" at EWR.


The potential east I believe is to the places where LH group does not hub so say Denmark (Lego), CGD, FCO and more if thet feel a need to compete with DL in Boston.

The lack of "slots" at EWR is a thing and pre pandemic they said they would address that via IAD a hub with room to grow and they have continued to do that with flights added in the past year. In Boston I think they will add p2p flights if they have a compelling reason to add it in Boston specifically. I want to think that LHR is a test ballon. Yes LHR is almost a UA hub and I think I remember reading they run the planes with pilots based in the UK.

P.s. does anyone have update on the chase lounge I thought it would be open by now or at least we would hear something about it opening. I walked past the location in Dec and the elevator was being used for construction ( protective dirty card board all around).
 
User avatar
pitbosflyer
Posts: 439
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:18 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:05 pm

Flew AA from PHL back to Boston yesterday. My seatmate described a truly bizarre flight itinerary. This was an average 50 something woman that was flying PHL - BOS on AA then DL for BOS-MSP. Apparently Expedia sold her that self connecting booking and described "you may have to change terminals". I broke the bad news to her that she would need to exit security and re-clear at terminal A. She was thinking it would be more like in PHL where all the terminals are basically connected post security. Anyways she was very unsure of what I described she would have to do. So I ended up walking her over to A before heading to central parking myself. While I was in A, I saw they updated this sign. Which is now hilariously not very useful. I guess the international departure locations just kept changing. Moral of the story, people on here see it as crazy that Delta was making people change terminals to connect and here I run into a normal person doing an even more difficult self connect. People really just care about price of the ticket.

Image
 
B752OS
Posts: 1538
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:49 pm

pitbosflyer wrote:
Flew AA from PHL back to Boston yesterday. My seatmate described a truly bizarre flight itinerary. This was an average 50 something woman that was flying PHL - BOS on AA then DL for BOS-MSP. Apparently Expedia sold her that self connecting booking and described "you may have to change terminals". I broke the bad news to her that she would need to exit security and re-clear at terminal A. She was thinking it would be more like in PHL where all the terminals are basically connected post security. Anyways she was very unsure of what I described she would have to do. So I ended up walking her over to A before heading to central parking myself. While I was in A, I saw they updated this sign. Which is now hilariously not very useful. I guess the international departure locations just kept changing. Moral of the story, people on here see it as crazy that Delta was making people change terminals to connect and here I run into a normal person doing an even more difficult self connect. People really just care about price of the ticket.

Image


It's like that Bud Light Real Men of Genius ad for discount airline pilot guy - "The most direct route to Houston? Through Fort Lauderdale with connections in Detroit, Vancouver and Kalamazoo."

In all seriousness, this is obviously a less than ideal setup for those flying international from Boston. I've seen a few posts on the Boston subreddit from people who are flying Delta international and are unsure if they're leaving from A or E. You would assume in 2023 most people would simply note their boarding pass when they check in and see the gate and use the website to confirm, but there are still plenty of people who will not. I'll be curious to see how DL handles their flights, aside from DUB, when the E expansion opens. They're building a large Sky Club so many their messaging will get better when that all opens up.
 
jplatts
Posts: 7147
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:11 pm

pitbosflyer wrote:

Image


The QR code in the image above is for the URL https://qrco.de/bd19RS, which redirects to a page that shows that DL BOS-AMS/LHR/CDG depart out of Terminal E.
 
rnav2dlrey
Posts: 412
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:10 am

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Tue Jan 31, 2023 12:12 am

truly one of the worst signs i've seen in recent memory. i almost never use A, but i'm interested to see how long it lasts.

if someone tweets it to DL, i would imagine that it's replaced quickly.
 
airbazar
Posts: 11459
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:48 pm

rnav2dlrey wrote:
truly one of the worst signs i've seen in recent memory. i almost never use A, but i'm interested to see how long it lasts.

if someone tweets it to DL, i would imagine that it's replaced quickly.


Really? I don't see anything wrong with it. It's a smart use of technology considering the flights departing from E could change at any day. The alternative is a placard type board like the green monster scoreboard at Fenway park :D And who these days is not familiar with QR codes?
 
dtremit
Posts: 241
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:08 am

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:50 pm

rnav2dlrey wrote:
truly one of the worst signs i've seen in recent memory. i almost never use A, but i'm interested to see how long it lasts.

if someone tweets it to DL, i would imagine that it's replaced quickly.


That appears to be a Massport sign, not something Delta put up.
 
C777ER
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:50 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Tue Jan 31, 2023 11:35 pm

Condor reported to bring the new A339neo once a week over the summer, nice to see the fruit stripe plane coming to BOS
 
737900ER
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 4:49 am

Re: Boston Aviation - 2023

Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:51 am

C777ER wrote:
Condor reported to bring the new A339neo once a week over the summer, nice to see the fruit stripe plane coming to BOS


As of right now it's loaded on 7/15, 8/17, 8/24, and 8/31
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