Welcome to the Chicago Aviation thread - 2023 edition.

Please continue to post your news and discussions below.

Link to the 2022 edition:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1468509

emcm541 wrote:

...United has reloaded ORD-PVG (789) and ORD-PEK (788) starting March 25 - being discussed in the UA Network Thread, starting at post 2581: viewtopic.php?p=23599149#p23599149

Thought I'd bring this forward from a few days before the new year, since it's pretty big news. We'll see if it sticks, but if it does, its one of the last pieces of the puzzle to be put into place at O'Hare after covid: the return of Mainland China pax flights by U.S. carriers. Wonder if HKG can't be far behind?

Some service updates to report:
- F9 will be using its 240 seater 321neo on some flights on ORD-CUN and MCO-ORD from Feb. 9 - March 6 - https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230103-f9321
- UA will be using a 7M9 on 2 of its 3 daily flights to CUN from march 26 to May 4 - https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230103-uacun
- G4 will be using a 320 on some of its flights for MDW-VPS starting June 2 - https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230103-g4320

AA has made the following service changes: - https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230103-aaus

1. Following to resume on June 3, instead of March 26 or as indicated:
- ORD-RAP
- ORD-RNO
- ORD-SJC (Was previously November 30, 2022)
- ORD-SAV
- ORD-ILM

2. AA Has completely removed the following from its schedule:
- ORD-CAK
- ORD-COS
- ORD-EVV
- ORD-SCE

3. The following routes, mostly have been seasonal AAeagle in past, will resume no sooner than June 1, 2023
- ORD-BIL
- ORD-BOI
- ORD-BTV
- ORD-MHT
- ORD-MSO
- ORD-MYR
- ORD-PWM

yeogeo wrote:

emcm541 wrote:

...United has reloaded ORD-PVG (789) and ORD-PEK (788) starting March 25 - being discussed in the UA Network Thread, starting at post 2581: viewtopic.php?p=23599149#p23599149

Thought I'd bring this forward from a few days before the new year, since it's pretty big news. We'll see if it sticks, but if it does, its one of the last pieces of the puzzle to be put into place at O'Hare after covid: the return of Mainland China pax flights by U.S. carriers. Wonder if HKG can't be far behind?

MU is discussing resuming passenger service as well. Since the beginning of covid they've been usually operating 2x daily pax/cargo flights. CX would be the last holdout to resume pax service then. I don't expect HU to return...

As reported on the San Diego Aviation - 2023 forum, a leak in the fuel pipeline supplying San Diego airport has caused LH467 (SAN-MUC) A350-941 to do a fuel stop at ORD on 01/01/1023, 01/03/2023 and today: 01/04/1023.

Some service updates:

For SAS - https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230105-skna

- ORD-CPH downgauges to A333 from A359 for the period of March 26 to October 28; remains 7x
- ORD-ARN temporarily suspended from April 4 - May 2

Rode the terminal train today. Wow. It's slow. Compared to Dallas air train - that one is like a sports car.
New signs in T1-2-3 stations.
T5 arrival hall is just too small.
Apparently there is now Only one exit from customs to the open - the one by MCD. The other side is dry walled and painted. Like it never existed.

New domestic bag claims look good. One has Delta branding. New drop ceilings. Bathrooms redone.

Does anybody have a layout of what arrival hall will look like when done?

schernov wrote:

Rode the terminal train today. Wow. It's slow. Compared to Dallas air train - that one is like a sports car.
New signs in T1-2-3 stations.
T5 arrival hall is just too small.
Apparently there is now Only one exit from customs to the open - the one by MCD. The other side is dry walled and painted. Like it never existed.

New domestic bag claims look good. One has Delta branding. New drop ceilings. Bathrooms redone.

Does anybody have a layout of what arrival hall will look like when done?

I rode it yesterday at 1am. Looks like only one set is riding around (because of early morning hours?). Had to wait about 20 min for train to arrive (I needed to move from T3 to T2 to get rideshare). Besides that looks modern compared to that what was riding before.
BTW Spirit baggage claim (they use two on T3) had no updates on the screen (our flight # never displayed) and many passengers were confused where to look for their luggage. Screen was showing flights that arrived at 7pm when we arrived at 12:30am...

CMA CGM Air Cargo F-HMRG first visit to ORD with this French registration** (operated as 2C410 CDG-ORD on 01/05/2022). The aircraft has visited ORD many times as Belgium registered OO-CMA and was re-registered to F-HMRG in November, 2022 according to various aircraft production websites (the Mode S Code (Hex) also changed from 448DA1 to 39B226). The paint scheme is the same except for the registration and nose wheel lettering (MA versus RG) as can be seen in these before and after photos...

Source: ADS-B Exchange data

schernov wrote:

Rode the terminal train today. Wow. It's slow. Compared to Dallas air train - that one is like a sports car.
New signs in T1-2-3 stations.
T5 arrival hall is just too small.
Apparently there is now Only one exit from customs to the open - the one by MCD. The other side is dry walled and painted. Like it never existed.

New domestic bag claims look good. One has Delta branding. New drop ceilings. Bathrooms redone.

Does anybody have a layout of what arrival hall will look like when done?

The arrivals hall is to small due to all the construction that is taking place. Between AA and UA's recheck areas being redone, using CD9 for domestic while CD12 is being constructed. The closure of CD 4/5 to upgrade the ceiling, lights and HVAC. Once those open then CD 6/7 will close for construction. The area you mentioned being walled off will be open up in another month. There's so much work planned out it will change almost monthly and it was decided to push hard during the winter season to lessen the overall impacts come June, July and August.

Yes, it has its challenges, but no more than one living in one's own house when renovating.

Minor Service Update

- EVA temporarily decreases ORD-TPE services to just 3x for the period of March 26 - April 30 - https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230106-brord

gabik001 wrote:

schernov wrote:

Rode the terminal train today. Wow. It's slow. Compared to Dallas air train - that one is like a sports car.
New signs in T1-2-3 stations.
T5 arrival hall is just too small.
Apparently there is now Only one exit from customs to the open - the one by MCD. The other side is dry walled and painted. Like it never existed.

New domestic bag claims look good. One has Delta branding. New drop ceilings. Bathrooms redone.

Does anybody have a layout of what arrival hall will look like when done?

I rode it yesterday at 1am. Looks like only one set is riding around (because of early morning hours?). Had to wait about 20 min for train to arrive (I needed to move from T3 to T2 to get rideshare). Besides that looks modern compared to that what was riding before.
BTW Spirit baggage claim (they use two on T3) had no updates on the screen (our flight # never displayed) and many passengers were confused where to look for their luggage. Screen was showing flights that arrived at 7pm when we arrived at 12:30am...

I was there around 6pm and train frequency was every 2-3 minutes, definitely multiple train sets. I think they got painted or had tape covered with new colors -otherwise same trainsets as before.... but at least its running.

jcwr56 wrote:

schernov wrote:

Rode the terminal train today. Wow. It's slow. Compared to Dallas air train - that one is like a sports car.
New signs in T1-2-3 stations.
T5 arrival hall is just too small.
Apparently there is now Only one exit from customs to the open - the one by MCD. The other side is dry walled and painted. Like it never existed.

New domestic bag claims look good. One has Delta branding. New drop ceilings. Bathrooms redone.

Does anybody have a layout of what arrival hall will look like when done?

The arrivals hall is to small due to all the construction that is taking place. Between AA and UA's recheck areas being redone, using CD9 for domestic while CD12 is being constructed. The closure of CD 4/5 to upgrade the ceiling, lights and HVAC. Once those open then CD 6/7 will close for construction. The area you mentioned being walled off will be open up in another month. There's so much work planned out it will change almost monthly and it was decided to push hard during the winter season to lessen the overall impacts come June, July and August.

Yes, it has its challenges, but no more than one living in one's own house when renovating.

Thats good to hear. I hope signage will get redone in the arrival public area. Right now, unless you KNOW what you are doing - its extremely difficult to figure out how to get to the train, parking lot, domestic claim. I was there for about 1.5hr. and saw so many folks walk out looking for bag recheck....only to find out that they had missed on the inside and now have to go to T1/T3 to recheck. If I was AA or UA - I would put a person right by the exit doors to prevent that. Security staff person (could not tell if he was CPD or CBP - sits in the booth by exit doors) was total ass to people.

schernov wrote:

gabik001 wrote:

schernov wrote:

Rode the terminal train today. Wow. It's slow. Compared to Dallas air train - that one is like a sports car.
New signs in T1-2-3 stations.
T5 arrival hall is just too small.
Apparently there is now Only one exit from customs to the open - the one by MCD. The other side is dry walled and painted. Like it never existed.

New domestic bag claims look good. One has Delta branding. New drop ceilings. Bathrooms redone.

Does anybody have a layout of what arrival hall will look like when done?

I rode it yesterday at 1am. Looks like only one set is riding around (because of early morning hours?). Had to wait about 20 min for train to arrive (I needed to move from T3 to T2 to get rideshare). Besides that looks modern compared to that what was riding before.
BTW Spirit baggage claim (they use two on T3) had no updates on the screen (our flight # never displayed) and many passengers were confused where to look for their luggage. Screen was showing flights that arrived at 7pm when we arrived at 12:30am...

I was there around 6pm and train frequency was every 2-3 minutes, definitely multiple train sets. I think they got painted or had tape covered with new colors -otherwise same trainsets as before.... but at least its running.

They did not replace wagons? One I was riding looked pretty fresh and clean. Basically when flying out of ORD I rarely was using people mover...

Flew in and out of T-5 this week. The new expansion unfortunately looks like a total missed opportunity. Love the natural light and wider concourses but outside of that, what happened? This is what the new expansion was supposed to look like...


Yeah, not even close to that rendition. The only thing that comes close to resembling that are the lights and the windows. There are no new restaurants, and does not look like there will be any coming either. Talked to a construction worker who was going in and out of closed door. Asked him if there is prep work being done for new restaurants and he laughed and said, "no, we are just trying to fix mistakes at this point", whatever that means, which I am assuming means problems related to construction. There are shops "coming soon" but I took a peek behind the closed off walls and NOTHING was going on construction wise. There were pallets of soda, water, etc and that is all. The seating in the gate areas are decent but definitely will not be enough when there are multiple widebody international flights leaving around the same time. There is a large open area which has just rows of seats and it sits under a large oasis that has multiple air conditioning ducts coming out of it. It looks ridiculous sitting in the middle of the concourse. There are two sets of rest rooms that are basically right next to each other. Why didn't they just make one set all men's and the other all women's with much larger square footage in each?

I can't understand how CDA missed so badly on this one. They have an enormous amount of unused land between the ATS tracks and the outer northwest walls in between M28-M37. That could have been used for so much. A food court, a shopping mall, airline lounges, etc. Instead they put in shipping docks on the outside of the wall, which I get is essential for deliveries and cargo, but there had to be a better place to put it, but I digress. I certainly hope that this is not what the OGT is going to resemble. Hopefully this will be a lesson learned.

piedmontf284000 wrote:

Flew in and out of T-5 this week. The new expansion unfortunately looks like a total missed opportunity. Love the natural light and wider concourses but outside of that, what happened? This is what the new expansion was supposed to look like...


Yeah, not even close to that rendition. The only thing that comes close to resembling that are the lights and the windows. There are no new restaurants, and does not look like there will be any coming either. Talked to a construction worker who was going in and out of closed door. Asked him if there is prep work being done for new restaurants and he laughed and said, "no, we are just trying to fix mistakes at this point", whatever that means, which I am assuming means problems related to construction. There are shops "coming soon" but I took a peek behind the closed off walls and NOTHING was going on construction wise. There were pallets of soda, water, etc and that is all. The seating in the gate areas are decent but definitely will not be enough when there are multiple widebody international flights leaving around the same time. There is a large open area which has just rows of seats and it sits under a large oasis that has multiple air conditioning ducts coming out of it. It looks ridiculous sitting in the middle of the concourse. There are two sets of rest rooms that are basically right next to each other. Why didn't they just make one set all men's and the other all women's with much larger square footage in each?

I can't understand how CDA missed so badly on this one. They have an enormous amount of unused land between the ATS tracks and the outer northwest walls in between M28-M37. That could have been used for so much. A food court, a shopping mall, airline lounges, etc. Instead they put in shipping docks on the outside of the wall, which I get is essential for deliveries and cargo, but there had to be a better place to put it, but I digress. I certainly hope that this is not what the OGT is going to resemble. Hopefully this will be a lesson learned.

It looks like a miss because it's not completed and yes, there's been some misses. The construction workers are clueless about concessions, but there's 3 concessions that have approval to proceed on buildout. The final finishes projects are still ongoing or let me put it this way, there's at least two more years worth of work for Terminal 5 between the east end, the core area and the garage. As far as the dock area, you're looking at it from just one perspective, T5 is one peice of a much larger puzzle, once you understand the puzzle, why they what they did comes into focus.

jcwr56 wrote:

piedmontf284000 wrote:

Flew in and out of T-5 this week. The new expansion unfortunately looks like a total missed opportunity. Love the natural light and wider concourses but outside of that, what happened? This is what the new expansion was supposed to look like...


Yeah, not even close to that rendition. The only thing that comes close to resembling that are the lights and the windows. There are no new restaurants, and does not look like there will be any coming either. Talked to a construction worker who was going in and out of closed door. Asked him if there is prep work being done for new restaurants and he laughed and said, "no, we are just trying to fix mistakes at this point", whatever that means, which I am assuming means problems related to construction. There are shops "coming soon" but I took a peek behind the closed off walls and NOTHING was going on construction wise. There were pallets of soda, water, etc and that is all. The seating in the gate areas are decent but definitely will not be enough when there are multiple widebody international flights leaving around the same time. There is a large open area which has just rows of seats and it sits under a large oasis that has multiple air conditioning ducts coming out of it. It looks ridiculous sitting in the middle of the concourse. There are two sets of rest rooms that are basically right next to each other. Why didn't they just make one set all men's and the other all women's with much larger square footage in each?

I can't understand how CDA missed so badly on this one. They have an enormous amount of unused land between the ATS tracks and the outer northwest walls in between M28-M37. That could have been used for so much. A food court, a shopping mall, airline lounges, etc. Instead they put in shipping docks on the outside of the wall, which I get is essential for deliveries and cargo, but there had to be a better place to put it, but I digress. I certainly hope that this is not what the OGT is going to resemble. Hopefully this will be a lesson learned.

It looks like a miss because it's not completed and yes, there's been some misses. The construction workers are clueless about concessions, but there's 3 concessions that have approval to proceed on buildout. The final finishes projects are still ongoing or let me put it this way, there's at least two more years worth of work for Terminal 5 between the east end, the core area and the garage. As far as the dock area, you're looking at it from just one perspective, T5 is one peice of a much larger puzzle, once you understand the puzzle, why they what they did comes into focus.

Why was the choice made to only add a few gates to the end of T5, and not a complete terminal buildout like the original O’Hare Gateway proposal had with “T6” being built that mirrored T5, alleviating the crowding and problem w/ T5 headhouse?

winter wrote:

jcwr56 wrote:

piedmontf284000 wrote:

Flew in and out of T-5 this week. The new expansion unfortunately looks like a total missed opportunity. Love the natural light and wider concourses but outside of that, what happened? This is what the new expansion was supposed to look like...


Yeah, not even close to that rendition. The only thing that comes close to resembling that are the lights and the windows. There are no new restaurants, and does not look like there will be any coming either. Talked to a construction worker who was going in and out of closed door. Asked him if there is prep work being done for new restaurants and he laughed and said, "no, we are just trying to fix mistakes at this point", whatever that means, which I am assuming means problems related to construction. There are shops "coming soon" but I took a peek behind the closed off walls and NOTHING was going on construction wise. There were pallets of soda, water, etc and that is all. The seating in the gate areas are decent but definitely will not be enough when there are multiple widebody international flights leaving around the same time. There is a large open area which has just rows of seats and it sits under a large oasis that has multiple air conditioning ducts coming out of it. It looks ridiculous sitting in the middle of the concourse. There are two sets of rest rooms that are basically right next to each other. Why didn't they just make one set all men's and the other all women's with much larger square footage in each?

I can't understand how CDA missed so badly on this one. They have an enormous amount of unused land between the ATS tracks and the outer northwest walls in between M28-M37. That could have been used for so much. A food court, a shopping mall, airline lounges, etc. Instead they put in shipping docks on the outside of the wall, which I get is essential for deliveries and cargo, but there had to be a better place to put it, but I digress. I certainly hope that this is not what the OGT is going to resemble. Hopefully this will be a lesson learned.

It looks like a miss because it's not completed and yes, there's been some misses. The construction workers are clueless about concessions, but there's 3 concessions that have approval to proceed on buildout. The final finishes projects are still ongoing or let me put it this way, there's at least two more years worth of work for Terminal 5 between the east end, the core area and the garage. As far as the dock area, you're looking at it from just one perspective, T5 is one peice of a much larger puzzle, once you understand the puzzle, why they what they did comes into focus.

Why was the choice made to only add a few gates to the end of T5, and not a complete terminal buildout like the original O’Hare Gateway proposal had with “T6” being built that mirrored T5, alleviating the crowding and problem w/ T5 headhouse?

It’s unnecessary. They are adding a lot more to the domestic side than those drawings envisioned.

Question on the gates at t5.
Does the new extension include the bottom floor corridor to immigration?
Or do those outside snake looking gates on thr outside which extend to the new end (but not around the corner) is the method of getting international arrivals to the old edge of the Concorse where the lower floor tunnel begins?

jcwr56 wrote:

yeogeo wrote:

emcm541 wrote:

...United has reloaded ORD-PVG (789) and ORD-PEK (788) starting March 25 - being discussed in the UA Network Thread, starting at post 2581: viewtopic.php?p=23599149#p23599149

Thought I'd bring this forward from a few days before the new year, since it's pretty big news. We'll see if it sticks, but if it does, its one of the last pieces of the puzzle to be put into place at O'Hare after covid: the return of Mainland China pax flights by U.S. carriers. Wonder if HKG can't be far behind?

MU is discussing resuming passenger service as well. Since the beginning of covid they've been usually operating 2x daily pax/cargo flights. CX would be the last holdout to resume pax service then. I don't expect HU to return...

I have been waiting for CX to return to ORD especially as it seems most of the rest of their network has been restored which makes it especially strange. Does anyone have more information on this?

schernov wrote:

Question on the gates at t5.
Does the new extension include the bottom floor corridor to immigration?
Or do those outside snake looking gates on thr outside which extend to the new end (but not around the corner) is the method of getting international arrivals to the old edge of the Concorse where the lower floor tunnel begins?

I believe all new gates go down (immediately, at the gate) to access immigration.

Cubsrule wrote:

schernov wrote:

Question on the gates at t5.
Does the new extension include the bottom floor corridor to immigration?
Or do those outside snake looking gates on thr outside which extend to the new end (but not around the corner) is the method of getting international arrivals to the old edge of the Concorse where the lower floor tunnel begins?

I believe all new gates go down (immediately, at the gate) to access immigration.

What about the downstairs space formerly used to bring passengers from (now-named) Gates M1-M6 to CBP/immigration? As these are all domestically configured now, I believe they no longer have access to the CBP area. I'm wondering what that space is now being used for.

It would make no sense to reconfigure the low numbered FIS corridor just because those gates are now being used predominantly for domestic arrivals and departures.

Neither the airlines or City want to lose the ability to have an international arrival on those same gates.



Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

piedmontf284000 wrote:

There are two sets of rest rooms that are basically right next to each other. Why didn't they just make one set all men's and the other all women's with much larger square footage in each?

That's actually a smart design consideration. They can close down one restroom for cleaning during off peak times and still have one available in the same immediate area. Both are available during the peak period.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

Eolesen wrote:

It would make no sense to reconfigure the low numbered FIS corridor just because those gates are now being used predominantly for domestic arrivals and departures.

Neither the airlines or City want to lose the ability to have an international arrival on those same gates.

That appears to be just what they've done. Open to correction but international arrivals can no longer be accommodated at gates M1-M6. I believe M7 is a DL gate primarily used for domestic ops but can accommodate international arrivals as it has the sterile walkway to CBP.

Huh. It's been ages since I arrived on the low side, but maybe DL needed office and breakroom space. That would also guarantee DL won't be over-expanding internationally...

Still a dumb move to reduce capability.

Small Service Update:

- UA to increases ORD-TLV at 4x starting March 25, for NS23, on 788 - https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230109-uatlv

Eolesen wrote:

Huh. It's been ages since I arrived on the low side, but maybe DL needed office and breakroom space. That would also guarantee DL won't be over-expanding internationally...

Still a dumb move to reduce capability.

Do you believe that DL will reduce their schedule so much that there would be gate availability for other airlines or that DL is going to begin flying INTL flights out of ORD anytime soon? This seems pretty simple, it’s unnecessary to still have INTL capability for all of these gates.

winter wrote:

jcwr56 wrote:

piedmontf284000 wrote:

Flew in and out of T-5 this week. The new expansion unfortunately looks like a total missed opportunity. Love the natural light and wider concourses but outside of that, what happened? This is what the new expansion was supposed to look like...


Yeah, not even close to that rendition. The only thing that comes close to resembling that are the lights and the windows. There are no new restaurants, and does not look like there will be any coming either. Talked to a construction worker who was going in and out of closed door. Asked him if there is prep work being done for new restaurants and he laughed and said, "no, we are just trying to fix mistakes at this point", whatever that means, which I am assuming means problems related to construction. There are shops "coming soon" but I took a peek behind the closed off walls and NOTHING was going on construction wise. There were pallets of soda, water, etc and that is all. The seating in the gate areas are decent but definitely will not be enough when there are multiple widebody international flights leaving around the same time. There is a large open area which has just rows of seats and it sits under a large oasis that has multiple air conditioning ducts coming out of it. It looks ridiculous sitting in the middle of the concourse. There are two sets of rest rooms that are basically right next to each other. Why didn't they just make one set all men's and the other all women's with much larger square footage in each?

I can't understand how CDA missed so badly on this one. They have an enormous amount of unused land between the ATS tracks and the outer northwest walls in between M28-M37. That could have been used for so much. A food court, a shopping mall, airline lounges, etc. Instead they put in shipping docks on the outside of the wall, which I get is essential for deliveries and cargo, but there had to be a better place to put it, but I digress. I certainly hope that this is not what the OGT is going to resemble. Hopefully this will be a lesson learned.

It looks like a miss because it's not completed and yes, there's been some misses. The construction workers are clueless about concessions, but there's 3 concessions that have approval to proceed on buildout. The final finishes projects are still ongoing or let me put it this way, there's at least two more years worth of work for Terminal 5 between the east end, the core area and the garage. As far as the dock area, you're looking at it from just one perspective, T5 is one peice of a much larger puzzle, once you understand the puzzle, why they what they did comes into focus.

Why was the choice made to only add a few gates to the end of T5, and not a complete terminal buildout like the original O’Hare Gateway proposal had with “T6” being built that mirrored T5, alleviating the crowding and problem w/ T5 headhouse?

I’d imagine the city doesn’t have and the airlines didn’t have the stomach to fund O’Hare Gateway as originally envisioned. To extend a upper/lower level road, plus ATS, and all the other ancillary items to go along with T6 would have been far more pricey than whatever was spent to expand T5.

Planeboy17 wrote:

Eolesen wrote:

Huh. It's been ages since I arrived on the low side, but maybe DL needed office and breakroom space. That would also guarantee DL won't be over-expanding internationally...

Still a dumb move to reduce capability.

Do you believe that DL will reduce their schedule so much that there would be gate availability for other airlines or that DL is going to begin flying INTL flights out of ORD anytime soon? This seems pretty simple, it’s unnecessary to still have INTL capability for all of these gates.

If they're still city owned and managed gates where DL simply has preferential use, the utility to be able to feed the FIS if DL isn't fully utilizing said gates would be smart to keep...

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

Eolesen wrote:

Huh. It's been ages since I arrived on the low side, but maybe DL needed office and breakroom space. That would also guarantee DL won't be over-expanding internationally...

Still a dumb move to reduce capability.

If all they did was put up a few drywalls to close off the connections to the corridor and partition the corridor into new offices, then I'm not too worried. It'll be easy enough to re-open the corrider if/when they ever need more international gates. I doubt they actually changed much of the structural work, which would be a bigger pain to undo.

Re: Delta expanding, I doubt they'll be doing any international flights (although years ago they used to take over ORD-CDG in the winter from AF) but if they want to, it's not a big deal to have the international flights parked at one of the international gates a little ways down the terminal. I don't think people will be sticklers about all the gates being exactly continuous. It's still a big improvement over schlepping to T5 from another terminal

kordcj wrote:

winter wrote:

jcwr56 wrote:

It looks like a miss because it's not completed and yes, there's been some misses. The construction workers are clueless about concessions, but there's 3 concessions that have approval to proceed on buildout. The final finishes projects are still ongoing or let me put it this way, there's at least two more years worth of work for Terminal 5 between the east end, the core area and the garage. As far as the dock area, you're looking at it from just one perspective, T5 is one peice of a much larger puzzle, once you understand the puzzle, why they what they did comes into focus.

Why was the choice made to only add a few gates to the end of T5, and not a complete terminal buildout like the original O’Hare Gateway proposal had with “T6” being built that mirrored T5, alleviating the crowding and problem w/ T5 headhouse?

I’d imagine the city doesn’t have and the airlines didn’t have the stomach to fund O’Hare Gateway as originally envisioned. To extend a upper/lower level road, plus ATS, and all the other ancillary items to go along with T6 would have been far more pricey than whatever was spent to expand T5.

I don’t think it was doing T6 vs. the current T5 renovations. It was probably staying with Gateway or the current master plan involving a new T2 and satellites. Gateway was very interesting in many respects, but it would have kept an aging T2 infrastructure and not address more efficient aircraft movements at terminals. Also, the design appeared to favor AA in many respects, and right now the future at ORD is much more dependent on UA and other international carriers.

kordcj wrote:

winter wrote:

jcwr56 wrote:

It looks like a miss because it's not completed and yes, there's been some misses. The construction workers are clueless about concessions, but there's 3 concessions that have approval to proceed on buildout. The final finishes projects are still ongoing or let me put it this way, there's at least two more years worth of work for Terminal 5 between the east end, the core area and the garage. As far as the dock area, you're looking at it from just one perspective, T5 is one peice of a much larger puzzle, once you understand the puzzle, why they what they did comes into focus.

Why was the choice made to only add a few gates to the end of T5, and not a complete terminal buildout like the original O’Hare Gateway proposal had with “T6” being built that mirrored T5, alleviating the crowding and problem w/ T5 headhouse?

I’d imagine the city doesn’t have and the airlines didn’t have the stomach to fund O’Hare Gateway as originally envisioned. To extend a upper/lower level road, plus ATS, and all the other ancillary items to go along with T6 would have been far more pricey than whatever was spent to expand T5.

Also, it's not really needed now. That plan was designed without the OGT. Now that a lot of international traffic will be transferred over to the OGT, there's no need to build out a new T6. Indeed, I expect once the OGT is done, international traffic at T5 (the type of traffic that actually needs a lot of checkin counters and luggage handling space) will go *down* as SA and OW traffic moves out.

With all that said, the new route of the ATS leaves a suspiciously large amount of space in front of the newly built gates, almost like they're leaving space to eventually fill in with a new T6... (Of course, it may just be that that's the minimum turn radius needed for the rail, in which case it's just a happy coincidence that it also leaves a lot of space that can be easily filled in at a future date )

I suspect that the footprint for ATS and where T6 would be located is entirely intentional. Just because it's not happening now doesn't mean that it's not still master planned for 10 15 20 years from now. Moving the ATS will be a much bigger problem than leaving a space for people to a1wonder why it's there.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

Another small service update:

- TK is increasing ORD-IST to 12x for the period of December 4, 2023 to February 5, 2024 on a mix of 77W and 359 - https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230111-tkus

I've been meaning to ask about this but since many have been complaining the ATS is slow and there has just been a significant update I thought I would post now.

This is regarding the technical operation of the ATS and changes that I have noticed since the new system's debut. There have long been many operational quirks that the system has mostly with regard to acceleration and deceleration. I don't know if there's anyone on here that knows the intricacies and can provide detail but I will at least put down the objective data here.

- Many years ago (the original trains) began an operational characteristic that every time they would leave a station they would accelerate to only a few mph and then pick up to normal speed after about 5-10 seconds. Additionally, the trains would decelerate for any part of the track that had a switch. This was most notable on the straightaway going north to the Remote Lot E station where the train would slow down when passing the track switches at the train yard and then go back to normal speed. All of this had been going on for at least 10-15 years before the recent system upgrade. While I don't know the technical reasoning for the performance decline, these changes were clearly intentionally programmed likely due to some technical limitations.

- When the new system finally came online (I rode the first day), the system had none of these previous issues and seemed to run very efficiently like other airports (ATL, etc.). The only noticeable quirk was that the train decelerated while passing the now closed Lot E station but that makes common sense to me why that's necessary.

- Shortly after the new system was operational (several weeks or a few months) the acceleration and deceleration showed a notable decline which clearly were intentionally programmed. This made the system significantly slower as acceleration and deceleration took forever. Between T1, T2 and T3 the trains never even reached their normal speed for those curves because of the crawl to start and stop.

- Last night I suddenly noticed that the ATS was now accelerating and decelerating VERY quickly (a la ATL, DEN, etc.). It has been just a few weeks since I last rode so this change must have happened very recently.

This will notably improve travel time and headway with trains leaving and arriving at stations much more quickly. Does anyone have any detail on these issues, why the system was temporarily limited, and if the efficient performance will last for good now?

Maybe it's weather dependent ? Or CDA is reading this forum

With the shift of Air Wisconsin to American Eagle, United & United Express made the following changes:

- SDF-ORD gets 2x daily mainline
- LEX-ORD goes all E175
- ORD-FSD gets a second daily mainline flight
- ORD-CMH gets a fourth daily mainline flight.

Being discussed in the UA Network Thread starting at post #144 - viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1480023&start=100

Ord - msp - Ord went mainline instead of Eagle on 737 instead of 175

Live and Let Fly has a post with pictures of the new United Club in Concourse (C10 area IIRC). Looks nice and will definitely be a much needed change to the very cramped old C club. https://liveandletsfly.com/new-united-c ... concourse/

Also, as being discussed in the UA network thread, UA has suspended the resumption of PVG and PEK through the end IATA S23. Post #186 - viewtopic.php?p=23623741#p23623741

Landed at L24 stinger this morning
Is there some new business / shop construction in front of L23/22 or are they already bustersizing the wall. There is some unpainted drywall bump out - about 3-4 feet out floor to ceiling.

schernov wrote:

Landed at L24 stinger this morning
Is there some new business / shop construction in front of L23/22 or are they already bustersizing the wall. There is some unpainted drywall bump out - about 3-4 feet out floor to ceiling.

I can't say for certain, but I wonder if that work could be related to the 2 extra gates that will go on the stinger at some point. Or maybe just concessions?

United has opened a new C-gate United Club. The facility will seat 650.
The current under-sized (seating for 250) much maligned club will be subsumed by the Polaris Lounge next door.

https://liveandletsfly.com/new-united-c ... concourse/

AirX 9H-BIG as AXY625U is scheduled to arrive at ORD tomorrow around 1:30pm from HAM. Last time when we saw this bird was in November 2022.

Along with the China pull-down from UA, they’re also cutting ORD-DEL from 1/30-10/28 due to Ukraine/Russia airspace restrictions. This is from the UA Network Thread also.

Some more service updates for United, per the UA Network thread:

ORD-COS gets a second daily mainline flight starting May 5th.
ORD-CHA goes all E175 (3x daily) replacing CRJs May 5th.
ORD-ROA goes from 3x ZW CRJs to 2x OO E175s (the third ZW CRJ frequency likely won't stay)

Starts at post #214 viewtopic.php?p=23626265#p23626265

Planeboy17 wrote:

Along with the China pull-down from UA, they’re also cutting ORD-DEL from 1/30-10/28 due to Ukraine/Russia airspace restrictions. This is from the UA Network Thread also.

I wonder how much of this is really the airspace restrictions and how much is the fact that the 787s can be used more lucratively to Europe and Japan and ORD-DEL was a huge suck of 787 time. Also, I'm guessing the yields aren't great even though it's usually pretty full.

EY to bring back the 351 on AUH-ORD starting March 26, 7x - https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230116-ey351

drdisque wrote:

Planeboy17 wrote:

Along with the China pull-down from UA, they’re also cutting ORD-DEL from 1/30-10/28 due to Ukraine/Russia airspace restrictions. This is from the UA Network Thread also.

I wonder how much of this is really the airspace restrictions and how much is the fact that the 787s can be used more lucratively to Europe and Japan and ORD-DEL was a huge suck of 787 time. Also, I'm guessing the yields aren't great even though it's usually pretty full.

This suspension has everything to do with Russia/Ukraine airspace restriction. United's flight to ORD has a block time that is now 2 hours longer than that of AI at over 17 hours but the flight regularly can hit or even exceed 18 hours of actual flight time. The amount of fuel UA has to carry has been causing weight restrictions out of DEL whereas before the airspace restrictions there were no weight restrictions and UA even would even carry over 20,000 lbs of cargo. Although UA never publicly states whether a route is profitable what they will say either publicly or to employees is whether a route is meeting expectations or whether a route has failed to meet expectation. Thus far ORD-DEL-ORD has met UA's expectations however the longer flight time is hurting UA's point of sales out of India. Also UA is now having to block seats on the DEL-ORD leg as a result of the weight restrictions which are being driven by extra fuel UA has to now carry to operate the flight. This restriction has definitely hurt UA's position in India and it has helped drive more passengers over to AI.

The 789 is an amazing piece of machinery but it does have its limits and UA has stuck this out for nearly a year, operating this route under these restrictions. For now with no end in sight they have to pull the plug because they can't continue to operate the route under these conditions.