Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
avtcle wrote:AA sked update May 2023
CLE-DFW: 5.0 (5x B738)
CLE-CLT: 5.0 (1x A321, 4x B738)
CLE-DCA: 4.0 (1x E175, 3x CRJ9)
CLE-ORD: 4.0 (1x B738, 2x E175, 1x CRJ2)
CLE-PHL: 3.0 (1x A319, 1x E175, 1x E145)
CLE-LGA: 3.0 (3x E175)
CLE-JFK: 2.0 (2x E175)
CLE-MIA: 1.0 (1x B738)
27 daily
avtcle wrote:Anyone know what United charter UA2785 CLE-SXM is for?
avtcle wrote:AA sked update May 2023
CLE-DFW: 5.0 (5x B738)
CLE-CLT: 5.0 (1x A321, 4x B738)
CLE-DCA: 4.0 (1x E175, 3x CRJ9)
CLE-ORD: 4.0 (1x B738, 2x E175, 1x CRJ2)
CLE-PHL: 3.0 (1x A319, 1x E175, 1x E145)
CLE-LGA: 3.0 (3x E175)
CLE-JFK: 2.0 (2x E175)
CLE-MIA: 1.0 (1x B738)
27 daily
masseybrown wrote:That's nice, but it's all hub flying. I was hoping AA might throw in a CLE-DUB feeder flight, like STL or even MCI. AA and IAG (EI's owner) are partners, after all. Wishful thinking, I guess.
xms3200 wrote:UA2785 was a special ferry flt. carrying 2 techs from CLE to fix another -700 that is out of service in SXM. There was another flt crew on the plane to bring the stranded pax in SXM back to ORD.
ChrisPBacon wrote:masseybrown wrote:That's nice, but it's all hub flying. I was hoping AA might throw in a CLE-DUB feeder flight, like STL or even MCI. AA and IAG (EI's owner) are partners, after all. Wishful thinking, I guess.
AA doesn't have the international aircraft to fully build out their hubs, let alone start P2P service. I can't imagine that CLE would even be high on the list if they did. UA pulled out, and ULCCs filled the void driving yields here down. There can't possibly be a large of AA frequent flyers in a former CO/UA hub. Wishful thinking by far.
ChrisPBacon wrote:masseybrown wrote:That's nice, but it's all hub flying. I was hoping AA might throw in a CLE-DUB feeder flight, like STL or even MCI. AA and IAG (EI's owner) are partners, after all. Wishful thinking, I guess.
AA doesn't have the international aircraft to fully build out their hubs, let alone start P2P service. I can't imagine that CLE would even be high on the list if they did. UA pulled out, and ULCCs filled the void driving yields here down. There can't possibly be a large of AA frequent flyers in a former CO/UA hub. Wishful thinking by far.
avtcle wrote:AA sked update May 2023
CLE-DFW: 5.0 (5x B738)
CLE-CLT: 5.0 (1x A321, 4x B738)
CLE-DCA: 4.0 (1x E175, 3x CRJ9)
CLE-ORD: 4.0 (1x B738, 2x E175, 1x CRJ2)
CLE-PHL: 3.0 (1x A319, 1x E175, 1x E145)
CLE-LGA: 3.0 (3x E175)
CLE-JFK: 2.0 (2x E175)
CLE-MIA: 1.0 (1x B738)
27 daily
MohawkWeekend wrote:Way back (waaaayy back) didn't American operate two flights daily with 707's and then later DC-10's to LAX?
masseybrown wrote:That's nice, but it's all hub flying. I was hoping AA might throw in a CLE-DUB feeder flight, like STL or even MCI. AA and IAG (EI's owner) are partners, after all. Wishful thinking, I guess.
SDFguy wrote:masseybrown wrote:That's nice, but it's all hub flying. I was hoping AA might throw in a CLE-DUB feeder flight, like STL or even MCI. AA and IAG (EI's owner) are partners, after all. Wishful thinking, I guess.
Why would AA do that instead of just routing passengers thru ORD?
fun2fly wrote:
LifetimeGS wrote:Enirilia posted new F9 base coming Jan 31. He didn't think no it would be CLE. Today F9 said CLE base coming soon.
fun2fly wrote:
LifetimeGS wrote:Sorry posted on my phone, should have said, today an F9 FA announced on the flight (as he was pushing the credit card) that CLE would be announced as the next new base and staffed once DFW is complete.....couldnt edit it....
N766UA wrote:SDFguy wrote:masseybrown wrote:That's nice, but it's all hub flying. I was hoping AA might throw in a CLE-DUB feeder flight, like STL or even MCI. AA and IAG (EI's owner) are partners, after all. Wishful thinking, I guess.
Why would AA do that instead of just routing passengers thru ORD?
I guess you really just do not get how vitally important CLE is, huh?.
SDFguy wrote:masseybrown wrote:That's nice, but it's all hub flying. I was hoping AA might throw in a CLE-DUB feeder flight, like STL or even MCI. AA and IAG (EI's owner) are partners, after all. Wishful thinking, I guess.
Why would AA do that instead of just routing passengers thru ORD?
masseybrown wrote:SDFguy wrote:masseybrown wrote:That's nice, but it's all hub flying. I was hoping AA might throw in a CLE-DUB feeder flight, like STL or even MCI. AA and IAG (EI's owner) are partners, after all. Wishful thinking, I guess.
Why would AA do that instead of just routing passengers thru ORD?
AA is trimming ORD relative to its other hubs and is the second biggest airline in terms of traffic in CLE. EI is in the process of joining OneWorld. EI has also been approved to join the AA-BA joint venture. Plus, one E175 flight a day would likely be profitable on its own, at least in the summer. It's a modest, low-risk investment. CLE would underwrite a good bit of their "new route" startup costs. I think a good salesman could make the case.
masseybrown wrote:SDFguy wrote:masseybrown wrote:That's nice, but it's all hub flying. I was hoping AA might throw in a CLE-DUB feeder flight, like STL or even MCI. AA and IAG (EI's owner) are partners, after all. Wishful thinking, I guess.
Why would AA do that instead of just routing passengers thru ORD?
AA is trimming ORD relative to its other hubs and is the second biggest airline in terms of traffic in CLE. EI is in the process of joining OneWorld. EI has also been approved to join the AA-BA joint venture. Plus, one E175 flight a day would likely be profitable on its own, at least in the summer. It's a modest, low-risk investment. CLE would underwrite a good bit of their "new route" startup costs. I think a good salesman could make the case.
pitintl wrote:masseybrown wrote:SDFguy wrote:
Why would AA do that instead of just routing passengers thru ORD?
AA is trimming ORD relative to its other hubs and is the second biggest airline in terms of traffic in CLE. EI is in the process of joining OneWorld. EI has also been approved to join the AA-BA joint venture. Plus, one E175 flight a day would likely be profitable on its own, at least in the summer. It's a modest, low-risk investment. CLE would underwrite a good bit of their "new route" startup costs. I think a good salesman could make the case.
You do know that EI is starting CLE-DUB 4x weekly year round in May right? With EI joining OneWorld, I wouldn't be surprised to see AA codeshare on this route. Makes no sense for AA to start this route, especially from a line station. I'm sure the codeshare will be similar to what they do with RJ out of DTW to AMM.
masseybrown wrote:pitintl wrote:masseybrown wrote:
AA is trimming ORD relative to its other hubs and is the second biggest airline in terms of traffic in CLE. EI is in the process of joining OneWorld. EI has also been approved to join the AA-BA joint venture. Plus, one E175 flight a day would likely be profitable on its own, at least in the summer. It's a modest, low-risk investment. CLE would underwrite a good bit of their "new route" startup costs. I think a good salesman could make the case.
You do know that EI is starting CLE-DUB 4x weekly year round in May right? With EI joining OneWorld, I wouldn't be surprised to see AA codeshare on this route. Makes no sense for AA to start this route, especially from a line station. I'm sure the codeshare will be similar to what they do with RJ out of DTW to AMM.
PitIntl, I think you misunderstand me. I'm suggesting that there's a good case for AA to run a feeder flight into CLE to feed the EI DUB flight. SDFguy says no way. His argument is probably more rational, or at least more conventional than mine.
pitintl wrote:masseybrown wrote:pitintl wrote:
You do know that EI is starting CLE-DUB 4x weekly year round in May right? With EI joining OneWorld, I wouldn't be surprised to see AA codeshare on this route. Makes no sense for AA to start this route, especially from a line station. I'm sure the codeshare will be similar to what they do with RJ out of DTW to AMM.
PitIntl, I think you misunderstand me. I'm suggesting that there's a good case for AA to run a feeder flight into CLE to feed the EI DUB flight. SDFguy says no way. His argument is probably more rational, or at least more conventional than mine.
You make a interesting point - what cities are you suggesting for the feeder flight? I know for a fact that AA has direct connections to and from the RJ flight in DTW to multiple hubs. I've been one countless DFW flights where there were folks connecting onward to AMM. I think the EI flight in CLE would certainly get the same, especially with AA putting increased frequencies in CLE from DFW. It's a good way to get additional traffic above an beyond the nonstops AA has to DUB from DFW, CLT, PHL, and ORD.
strangeplanes wrote:pitintl wrote:masseybrown wrote:
PitIntl, I think you misunderstand me. I'm suggesting that there's a good case for AA to run a feeder flight into CLE to feed the EI DUB flight. SDFguy says no way. His argument is probably more rational, or at least more conventional than mine.
You make a interesting point - what cities are you suggesting for the feeder flight? I know for a fact that AA has direct connections to and from the RJ flight in DTW to multiple hubs. I've been one countless DFW flights where there were folks connecting onward to AMM. I think the EI flight in CLE would certainly get the same, especially with AA putting increased frequencies in CLE from DFW. It's a good way to get additional traffic above an beyond the nonstops AA has to DUB from DFW, CLT, PHL, and ORD.
Who flows over to CLE vs. ORD? Almost every traveler will be better off in a hub. Very few travelers save time or the airlines money by going to CLE.
Midwest City - CLE - DUB - Final Destination
vs.
Midwest City - ORD - Final Destination
Midwest City - JFK - Final Destination
Midwest City - DTW - Final Destination
Midwest City - BOS - Final Destination
Midwest City - Euro Hub - Final Destination
Midwest City - Euro Hub (is the final destination)
greenair727 wrote:The point you're missing is this: AA could not only provide feeder to EI BUT ALSO serve pax trying to get to CLE from another city that doesn't currently have nonstop service, that, because there is no non-stop service, is not guaranteed to go to AA if AA requires a stop in ORD/DAL/JFK/etc. where equal (or better) options exist on DL or UA (I'd take a transfer on DL at DTW any day over AA at ORD). For example, AA could operate MCI-CLE or STL-CLE or SAN-CLE. Those flights could be timed to allow a connection to EI's CLE-DUB. But if a pax from MCI/STL/SAN is not going to DUB (or beyond), rather is only going to CLE, AA will still get the business as people would have a non stop on MCI/STL/SAN-CLE vs. having to stop somewhere, where AA would be no better than DL or UA and for which people will fly with their loyalty instead. So, AA would be serving a domestic market need, while ALSO benefitting by providing feed and distribution from EI at CLE, which maintains capacity at their hubs (like ORD) for other pax (such as someone going from Omaha to Buffalo).
ChrisPBacon wrote:masseybrown wrote:That's nice, but it's all hub flying. I was hoping AA might throw in a CLE-DUB feeder flight, like STL or even MCI. AA and IAG (EI's owner) are partners, after all. Wishful thinking, I guess.
AA doesn't have the international aircraft to fully build out their hubs, let alone start P2P service. I can't imagine that CLE would even be high on the list if they did. UA pulled out, and ULCCs filled the void driving yields here down. There can't possibly be a large of AA frequent flyers in a former CO/UA hub. Wishful thinking by far.
jplatts wrote:Here are the Q3 2022 PDEW's out of CLE/CAK to the top contiguous U.S. markets traveled to from the CLE/CAK market that do not currently have any nonstop service from CLE or CAK:
CLE/CAK-MYR - 154 (NK CLE-MYR nonstop service scheduled to resume on 4/5/2023)
CLE/CAK-SAN - 117
CLE/CAK-AUS - 95
CLE/CAK-RDU - 83 (F9 CLE-RDU nonstop service scheduled to resume on 4/21/2023)
CLE/CAK-PDX - 76
CLE/CAK-SLC - 73
CLE/CAK-MCI - 71
CLE/CAK-JAX - 62
CLE/CAK-SAT - 59
CLE/CAK-ORF/PHF - 49
greenair727 wrote:strangeplanes wrote:pitintl wrote:
You make a interesting point - what cities are you suggesting for the feeder flight? I know for a fact that AA has direct connections to and from the RJ flight in DTW to multiple hubs. I've been one countless DFW flights where there were folks connecting onward to AMM. I think the EI flight in CLE would certainly get the same, especially with AA putting increased frequencies in CLE from DFW. It's a good way to get additional traffic above an beyond the nonstops AA has to DUB from DFW, CLT, PHL, and ORD.
Who flows over to CLE vs. ORD? Almost every traveler will be better off in a hub. Very few travelers save time or the airlines money by going to CLE.
Midwest City - CLE - DUB - Final Destination
vs.
Midwest City - ORD - Final Destination
Midwest City - JFK - Final Destination
Midwest City - DTW - Final Destination
Midwest City - BOS - Final Destination
Midwest City - Euro Hub - Final Destination
Midwest City - Euro Hub (is the final destination)
The point you're missing is this: AA could not only provide feeder to EI BUT ALSO serve pax trying to get to CLE from another city that doesn't currently have nonstop service, that, because there is no non-stop service, is not guaranteed to go to AA if AA requires a stop in ORD/DAL/JFK/etc. where equal (or better) options exist on DL or UA (I'd take a transfer on DL at DTW any day over AA at ORD). For example, AA could operate MCI-CLE or STL-CLE or SAN-CLE. Those flights could be timed to allow a connection to EI's CLE-DUB. But if a pax from MCI/STL/SAN is not going to DUB (or beyond), rather is only going to CLE, AA will still get the business as people would have a non stop on MCI/STL/SAN-CLE vs. having to stop somewhere, where AA would be no better than DL or UA and for which people will fly with their loyalty instead. So, AA would be serving a domestic market need, while ALSO benefitting by providing feed and distribution from EI at CLE, which maintains capacity at their hubs (like ORD) for other pax (such as someone going from Omaha to Buffalo).
masseybrown wrote:The biggest argument against my feeder idea, which nobody has mentioned, is that AA has already said they are going to build up CVG.
What bothers me is that most of the counter arguments are premised on the idea that a non-hub can only have spoke routes to a hub. This is what TWA and Panam counted on, concentrating all their TATL on IDL/JFK service; it only worked for a while and then suddenly it didn't.
masseybrown wrote:
That's nice, but it's all hub flying. I was hoping AA might throw in a CLE-DUB feeder flight, like STL or even MCI. AA and IAG (EI's owner) are partners, after all. Wishful thinking, I guess.
joeman wrote:Pretty sure everyone knows that with the exception of ULCC's, the airline foundation and concentration is on established hubs. So let's go back to the original post:masseybrown wrote:
That's nice, but it's all hub flying. I was hoping AA might throw in a CLE-DUB feeder flight, like STL or even MCI. AA and IAG (EI's owner) are partners, after all. Wishful thinking, I guess.
I'm only seeing some hope and wishful thinking
MohawkWeekend wrote:Did a quick check of fares on a travel website for the cost of a couch non-stop round trip June 14 returning June 21
CLE - DUB $1323
PIT - LHR $1677
CVG - LHR $1127
DTW -LHR $1712
STL - FRA $1605
The cheapest 1 stop connection between CLE - LHR on those dates is $1312 via JFK on DL/VS. First of all - so much for cheap flights from anywhere. And it appears that if you want a non-stop you'd save a bundle driving to CVG instead of PIT. And no toll roads to boat.
CLEguy wrote:MohawkWeekend wrote:Did a quick check of fares on a travel website for the cost of a couch non-stop round trip June 14 returning June 21
CLE - DUB $1323
PIT - LHR $1677
CVG - LHR $1127
DTW -LHR $1712
STL - FRA $1605
The cheapest 1 stop connection between CLE - LHR on those dates is $1312 via JFK on DL/VS. First of all - so much for cheap flights from anywhere. And it appears that if you want a non-stop you'd save a bundle driving to CVG instead of PIT. And no toll roads to boat.
Don't know about others, but I would never choose to start my international travel by driving 2+ hours to save a few hundred bucks. I could see this being a consideration for a leisure traveler or family, but the hassle and time involved with driving is not worth it for me. Also, you need to factor in the gas, parking, and tolls involved in driving. By my estimates, a 7.5 hour roundtrip drive to CVG would cost about $480 in wear and tear (using IRS mileage reimbursement rates and not including airport parking), plus the value of your time (so if you make $20/hour, that's another $150 cost to factor in). The 4 hour drive to PIT is actually cheaper even with the tolls (about $190, +parking, + cost of 4 hours of time).