Welcome to the Fresno Aviation thread - 2023 edition.

Please continue to post your news and discussions below.

Link to the 2022 edition:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1468597

Happy New Year all. May today’s Breeze diversion to FAT be a sign of things to come.

whatusaid wrote:

Happy New Year all. May today’s Breeze diversion to FAT be a sign of things to come.

I'll take any A220 operator!!!

Happy New Year to all.

As an off-topic reminder, be sure to watch the Rose Parade on Monday. Fresno State's marching band will be in the parade as the final marching band of the parade. The Rose Parade publicity calls it "the largest college marching band of its kind, having been recognized by the College Band Directors National Association as one of the top eight college marching bands in the country."

Nice shot of Breeze's N211BZ on the ground at FAT after the SFO diversion here:
http://twitter.com/adavalosjr/status/1609297592743264257

It would be nice to see A220s on a regular basis at Fresno.

flyfresno wrote:

whatusaid wrote:

Happy New Year all. May today’s Breeze diversion to FAT be a sign of things to come.

I'll take any A220 operator!!!

I think DL A220 flights are realistic for us

FlyLEN2019 wrote:

flyfresno wrote:

whatusaid wrote:

Happy New Year all. May today’s Breeze diversion to FAT be a sign of things to come.

I'll take any A220 operator!!!

I think DL A220 flights are realistic for us

Anyone from FAT flown on a 220? I’ve seen them in PSP and BOI. The DL birds look cool.

whatusaid wrote:

FlyLEN2019 wrote:

flyfresno wrote:

I'll take any A220 operator!!!

I think DL A220 flights are realistic for us

Anyone from FAT flown on a 220? I’ve seen them in PSP and BOI. The DL birds look cool.

Not out of FAT but yes once. Definitely a nice ride, basically indiscernible from a 737 or A319/A320 aside from the 3-2 seating. It's either gonna be that or the 319 if a certain Air Line ever upguages...

Looks like one DL 757 (SMF) and one AS 737 (SFO) diverted to FAT last night. Anyone have/find photos of them? Looks like the ATL-FAT leg was enroute almost 8 hours!

flyfresno wrote:

Looks like one DL 757 (SMF) and one AS 737 (SFO) diverted to FAT last night. Anyone have/find photos of them? Looks like the ATL-FAT leg was enroute almost 8 hours!

Just bwatched a news feed from KCRA 3 Sacramento about the damage the winds did in the Sac area last night. The usual trees uprooted, downed utility lines, etc. The narrator indicated gusts of 65 mph reported. So did DL put the pax on busses or wait a bit and hope the winds died down?

Tan Flyr wrote:

flyfresno wrote:

Looks like one DL 757 (SMF) and one AS 737 (SFO) diverted to FAT last night. Anyone have/find photos of them? Looks like the ATL-FAT leg was enroute almost 8 hours!

Just bwatched a news feed from KCRA 3 Sacramento about the damage the winds did in the Sac area last night. The usual trees uprooted, downed utility lines, etc. The narrator indicated gusts of 65 mph reported. So did DL put the pax on busses or wait a bit and hope the winds died down?

The plane just landed at SMF around 6pm, nearly 18 hours late. Not sure how many pax they took or if there were buses or another option offered...

ILT's first FAT-PVR charter for 2023 departed this morning on an AS aircraft. Next one is supposedly the 17th.

But I understand all of their charter flights for this winter are already sold out.

Fresno needs that G4/VB linkup to start some 1X or 2X per week Mexico resort flights to SJD and PVR.

flyfresno wrote:

whatusaid wrote:

FlyLEN2019 wrote:

I think DL A220 flights are realistic for us

Anyone from FAT flown on a 220? I’ve seen them in PSP and BOI. The DL birds look cool.

Not out of FAT but yes once. Definitely a nice ride, basically indiscernible from a 737 or A319/A320 aside from the 3-2 seating. It's either gonna be that or the 319 if a certain Air Line ever upguages...

And a much roomier lavatory! Much quiter than a 737/A320 and nice acceleration on take off.

FATFlyer wrote:

ILT's first FAT-PVR charter for 2023 departed this morning on an AS aircraft. Next one is supposedly the 17th.

But I understand all of their charter flights for this winter are already sold out.

Fresno needs that G4/VB linkup to start some 1X or 2X per week Mexico resort flights to SJD and PVR.

I wonder if AS would ever have OO/QX fly to SJD and/or PVR from places like FAT? SJD is definitely within rage of the E175 and PVR likely also is too. QX has flown to some smaller Mexican airports from LAX in the past.

flyfresno wrote:

FATFlyer wrote:

ILT's first FAT-PVR charter for 2023 departed this morning on an AS aircraft. Next one is supposedly the 17th.

But I understand all of their charter flights for this winter are already sold out.

Fresno needs that G4/VB linkup to start some 1X or 2X per week Mexico resort flights to SJD and PVR.

I wonder if AS would ever have OO/QX fly to SJD and/or PVR from places like FAT? SJD is definitely within rage of the E175 and PVR likely also is too. QX has flown to some smaller Mexican airports from LAX in the past.

I always thought G4 should expand in FAT. FAT-AZA/PVU/PDX come to mind.

flyfresno wrote:

FATFlyer wrote:

ILT's first FAT-PVR charter for 2023 departed this morning on an AS aircraft. Next one is supposedly the 17th.

But I understand all of their charter flights for this winter are already sold out.

Fresno needs that G4/VB linkup to start some 1X or 2X per week Mexico resort flights to SJD and PVR.

I wonder if AS would ever have OO/QX fly to SJD and/or PVR from places like FAT? SJD is definitely within rage of the E175 and PVR likely also is too. QX has flown to some smaller Mexican airports from LAX in the past.

I flew LAX-LTO back in 2013 on the Q400! It was such a neat flight!

I wonder the same thing, like I could see it working for smaller stations like FAT, SMF, RNO, etc. But, I bet AS would rather just add another flight to their main hubs/focus cities to fulfill the demand.

mesasurf wrote:

flyfresno wrote:

FATFlyer wrote:

ILT's first FAT-PVR charter for 2023 departed this morning on an AS aircraft. Next one is supposedly the 17th.

But I understand all of their charter flights for this winter are already sold out.

Fresno needs that G4/VB linkup to start some 1X or 2X per week Mexico resort flights to SJD and PVR.

I wonder if AS would ever have OO/QX fly to SJD and/or PVR from places like FAT? SJD is definitely within rage of the E175 and PVR likely also is too. QX has flown to some smaller Mexican airports from LAX in the past.

I always thought G4 should expand in FAT. FAT-AZA/PVU/PDX come to mind.

They tried AZA (I think twice) in the past without success. I'm not so sure about PVU and PDX, those seem too low O&D. Best option after LAS would be SNA, but with the slot controls, probably not. After that, I could totally see SFB working 1-2 times per week in the summer, but I don't think they are flying transcons yet...

Back in late 2000, before Maury Gallagher took over the company, Allegiant operated a short-lived FAT-RNO-PDX same plane route for 3 or 4 months. Allegiant then filed its bankruptcy and shrunk before reorganizing.

AS/QX announced its intent to start nonstop FAT-PDX in June 2001, non long after Allegiant stopped flying the route.

mesasurf wrote:

flyfresno wrote:

FATFlyer wrote:

ILT's first FAT-PVR charter for 2023 departed this morning on an AS aircraft. Next one is supposedly the 17th.

But I understand all of their charter flights for this winter are already sold out.

Fresno needs that G4/VB linkup to start some 1X or 2X per week Mexico resort flights to SJD and PVR.

I wonder if AS would ever have OO/QX fly to SJD and/or PVR from places like FAT? SJD is definitely within rage of the E175 and PVR likely also is too. QX has flown to some smaller Mexican airports from LAX in the past.

I always thought G4 should expand in FAT. FAT-AZA/PVU/PDX come to mind.

I think they tried AZA a few years ago and it didn’t last long at all. I think G4 could try something like AUS or SNA (if they can get a slot).

On a side note, will DL bring mainline to FAT? I bet the 319 could work to SLC. Just like what they are doing at EUG.

SLCaviation wrote:

On a side note, will DL bring mainline to FAT? I bet the 319 could work to SLC. Just like what they are doing at EUG.

Delta has been an interesting case study at FAT. Historically, pre-pandemic, they had been holding steady at 3X per day to SLC forever (back then, mostly on CR7s and even some CRJs). They made a big push in 2021, going up to as many as 5X per day to SLC, adding a flight to LAX, and also one flight per week to SEA, with weekly SEA scheduled but never actually added (all of this on OO). In 2022, though, they went back to their pre-pandemic levels at FAT, holding at 3X per day to SLC on E175s (with some days being only 2X).

It's interesting you made the EUG comparison, we talked about that in the 2022 FAT thread. EUG has had two more total flight per day on DL (3X to SEA, 2X to SLC), but FAT has historically had more passengers to SLC (almost double the amount during the period 09/2021-09/2022). One theory is that OO uses FAT as a MX base, and they basically told DL they need an E175 to RON in FAT for that, taking away the option of making that flight mainline. Adding to that theory is how the SLC-FAT flight leaves SLC way earlier than almost every other West Coast terminator (aside from airports with noise issues). EUG isn't the only city that's gotten a mainline terminator recently, RST and BIS both got mainline flights from MSP (RST hasn't had mainline since the Northwest days, BIS has had 717s in the past). There could be others too.

Not really an answer to your question, just some info about it...

October BTS dashboard is up. I'm sure someone will chime in with T-100 data, but here's the "35,000 foot" view:

Comparing to Sep 21-Sep 22, Oct 21-Oct 22 showed a small drop in passengers (about 6,000 total for the 12 month period).

Southwest gained market share (~0.5%), OO and AA lost a small amount, G4 and UA gained a small amount.

LAS continued to grow, further extending its lead as the #1 destination from FAT. DEN also gained.

DFW stayed the same, but PHX and SLC all lost passengers. SFO, LAX, and SAN all gained a small amount.

flyfresno wrote:

October BTS dashboard is up. I'm sure someone will chime in with T-100 data, but here's the "35,000 foot" view:

Comparing to Sep 21-Sep 22, Oct 21-Oct 22 showed a small drop in passengers (about 6,000 total for the 12 month period).

Southwest gained market share (~0.5%), OO and AA lost a small amount, G4 and UA gained a small amount.

LAS continued to grow, further extending its lead as the #1 destination from FAT. DEN also gained.

DFW stayed the same, but PHX and SLC all lost passengers. SFO, LAX, and SAN all gained a small amount.

Southwest had another great month - DEN in the upper 90’s. Overall station LF outbound was 88%. Would appear they’re on a different track as compared to year one when seasonality hit the loads hard.

Looks like the silly AS mainline service between FAT and SAN may be going away in April (after still operating only in March?)

I see that, as of Saturday night's OAG schedule load, beginning April 18, we will have triple-daily EMJ service in the market (with departures from FAT at 8a, noon & 5pm with return flights leaving SAN at 10a, 3p & 7p!) May continues to show (only) dbl-daily EMJs so I assume that sked will be updated soon as well.

My suspicion is that due to new a/c deliveries (specifically QX EMJs), AS has managed to 'create' a couple on OO EMJs for SAN to get the FAT service back to where it belongs. (I'm also seeing a couple of other SAN-routes gaining EMJ service in the April/May time frame. Hopefully AS will find something creative to do with some Boeings that will now be freed up!)

The mainline service between FAT and SAN -- particularly at the expense of frequency of flights -- really doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I love the idea but I really don't think the traffic is in the market to fill a r/t 739 every day! Of course, if it were tied into some other route, such as Hawaii-FAT, I'd love to see it! SEA is a longer trip and maybe they have the traffic there for mainline service.

I believe the appearance of the mainline flights between FAT & SAN was due to the anticipated shortage or EMJs in the fleet, and possibly that is still the case in March. Once AS confirmed the delivery or freeing up of additional frames, they're getting things back to where they belong! (It also pleases me that the traffic for 3x Daily FAT-SAN flights seems to be there again and hopefully the higher frequency of service will now remain for the rest of 2023 and beyond.)

bb

SANFan wrote:

Looks like the silly AS mainline service between FAT and SAN may be going away in April (after still operating only in March?)

I see that, as of Saturday night's OAG schedule load, beginning April 18, we will have triple-daily EMJ service in the market (with departures from FAT at 8a, noon & 5pm with return flights leaving SAN at 10a, 3p & 7p!) May continues to show (only) dbl-daily EMJs so I assume that sked will be updated soon as well.

My suspicion is that due to new a/c deliveries (specifically QX EMJs), AS has managed to 'create' a couple on OO EMJs for SAN to get the FAT service back to where it belongs. (I'm also seeing a couple of other SAN-routes gaining EMJ service in the April/May time frame. Hopefully AS will find something creative to do with some Boeings that will now be freed up!)

The mainline service between FAT and SAN -- particularly at the expense of frequency of flights -- really doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I love the idea but I really don't think the traffic is in the market to fill a r/t 739 every day! Of course, if it were tied into some other route, such as Hawaii-FAT, I'd love to see it! SEA is a longer trip and maybe they have the traffic there for mainline service.

I believe the appearance of the mainline flights between FAT & SAN was due to the anticipated shortage or EMJs in the fleet, and possibly that is still the case in March. Once AS confirmed the delivery or freeing up of additional frames, they're getting things back to where they belong! (It also pleases me that the traffic for 3x Daily FAT-SAN flights seems to be there again and hopefully the higher frequency of service will now remain for the rest of 2023 and beyond.)

bb

SAN has been such a mess for so long between Covid-19 and now the shortage of aircraft. I would expect the 3X will be welcomed and we will be heading to 4X as had been planned a couple years back. Demand is there but not for a 739.

whatusaid wrote:

Demand is there but not for a 739.

It might work on a more earth-toned 737 that's on its way to HNL though

whatusaid wrote:

SANFan wrote:

Looks like the silly AS mainline service between FAT and SAN may be going away in April (after still operating only in March?)

SAN has been such a mess for so long between Covid-19 and now the shortage of aircraft. I would expect the 3X will be welcomed and we will be heading to 4X as had been planned a couple years back. Demand is there but not for a 739.

I agree. I remember when 4 (EMJ) r/t were briefly on the advanced skeds a couple of years ago -- probably right before covid took control of everything. I'm very happy to start seeing some things resembling the recent past finally!

Happy New Year, What', and the rest of you Fresno regulars!

bb

AA’s May schedule shows the A321 upgrades from March/April sticking on DFW 4X, plus an A321, 738, and 2 CRJ-700s to make 4X PHX. The DFW upgrade is welcomed, and it’s nice to finally see AA add more capacity back into PHX, especially with an A321 on one of the flights.

Seeing the PHX upgrades makes me wonder if there’s any murmur of a certain competitor airline adding PHX in the near future…

whatusaid wrote:

SANFan wrote:

Looks like the silly AS mainline service between FAT and SAN may be going away in April (after still operating only in March?)

I see that, as of Saturday night's OAG schedule load, beginning April 18, we will have triple-daily EMJ service in the market (with departures from FAT at 8a, noon & 5pm with return flights leaving SAN at 10a, 3p & 7p!) May continues to show (only) dbl-daily EMJs so I assume that sked will be updated soon as well.

My suspicion is that due to new a/c deliveries (specifically QX EMJs), AS has managed to 'create' a couple on OO EMJs for SAN to get the FAT service back to where it belongs. (I'm also seeing a couple of other SAN-routes gaining EMJ service in the April/May time frame. Hopefully AS will find something creative to do with some Boeings that will now be freed up!)

The mainline service between FAT and SAN -- particularly at the expense of frequency of flights -- really doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I love the idea but I really don't think the traffic is in the market to fill a r/t 739 every day! Of course, if it were tied into some other route, such as Hawaii-FAT, I'd love to see it! SEA is a longer trip and maybe they have the traffic there for mainline service.

I believe the appearance of the mainline flights between FAT & SAN was due to the anticipated shortage or EMJs in the fleet, and possibly that is still the case in March. Once AS confirmed the delivery or freeing up of additional frames, they're getting things back to where they belong! (It also pleases me that the traffic for 3x Daily FAT-SAN flights seems to be there again and hopefully the higher frequency of service will now remain for the rest of 2023 and beyond.)

bb

SAN has been such a mess for so long between Covid-19 and now the shortage of aircraft. I would expect the 3X will be welcomed and we will be heading to 4X as had been planned a couple years back. Demand is there but not for a 739.

The 737 is still showing all summer...

FlyLEN2019 wrote:

AA’s May schedule shows the A321 upgrades from March/April sticking on DFW 4X, plus an A321, 738, and 2 CRJ-700s to make 4X PHX. The DFW upgrade is welcomed, and it’s nice to finally see AA add more capacity back into PHX, especially with an A321 on one of the flights.

Seeing the PHX upgrades makes me wonder if there’s any murmur of a certain competitor airline adding PHX in the near future…

One interesting thing this summer is there really won't be much in the way of redeye options that aren't to Mexico. If you really want to take a redeye on UA, AS, or AA, you will have a long wait in the hub, their last departures are in the 2:30-4:20pm range from FAT. DL will offer the most "convenient" redeye option, leaving at 5:20pm and still having a ~4 hour wait in SLC for most redeyes.

UA pulled ORD for June. Bad sign of what’s to come.

whatusaid wrote:

UA pulled ORD for June. Bad sign of what’s to come.

Where do you see that? I still show it bookable.

flyfresno wrote:

whatusaid wrote:

UA pulled ORD for June. Bad sign of what’s to come.

Where do you see that? I still show it bookable.

Was going off a third party industry report, which was valid on Friday night when checked against the area system. Might have been a glitch and if so, that’s good news.

whatusaid wrote:

flyfresno wrote:

whatusaid wrote:

UA pulled ORD for June. Bad sign of what’s to come.

Where do you see that? I still show it bookable.

Was going off a third party industry report, which was valid on Friday night when checked against the area system. Might have been a glitch and if so, that’s good news.

You're right that it would be really bad considering how bullish UA is in many other markets this summer.

The Fresno Bee's Tim Sheehan has posted a nice article highlighting FAT's very high October LFs.

FAT was the highest LF among WN stations in October. Second highest LF among UA mainline airports and third highest for AA mainline.

Hopefully a few more months of that will result in some frequency increases or aircraft upgauges.

First few lines excerpt:
"Fresno was among the best-performing domestic air travel markets in the nation for three large U.S. airlines in October, with at least 90% of seats filled on their departing and arriving flights. Enilria.com, a website that crunches Federal Department of Transportation data on airlines and airports, reported that Southwest Airlines’ flights to and from Fresno Yosemite International Airport experienced an average “load factor” of 92% in October, the most recent month for which the federal data is available. That was tops among 107 airports for which information was provided.

United Airlines and American Airlines had slightly higher load factors for their flights serving Fresno, each with 94% of their seats filled during the month. For United Airlines, Fresno Yosemite International was ranked second among 155 airports listed. American Airlines’ traffic to and from Fresno had the third highest load factor out of 198 listed airports in October.

The figures represent mainline flights operated by each airline, rather than those provided under contract arrangements with Utah-based SkyWest Airlines. SkyWest flies to and from Fresno under the United Express and American Eagle brands, among others. For SkyWest, the company’s Fresno flights had an average load factor of 91%, 18th out of 220 airports listed for the airline."


The full story with more details is at http://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article271606527.html

FATFlyer wrote:

The Fresno Bee's Tim Sheehan has posted a nice article highlighting FAT's very high October LFs.

FAT was the highest LF among WN stations in October. Second highest LF among UA mainline airports and third highest for AA mainline.

Hopefully a few more months of that will result in some frequency increases or aircraft upgauges.

First few lines excerpt:
"Fresno was among the best-performing domestic air travel markets in the nation for three large U.S. airlines in October, with at least 90% of seats filled on their departing and arriving flights. Enilria.com, a website that crunches Federal Department of Transportation data on airlines and airports, reported that Southwest Airlines’ flights to and from Fresno Yosemite International Airport experienced an average “load factor” of 92% in October, the most recent month for which the federal data is available. That was tops among 107 airports for which information was provided.

United Airlines and American Airlines had slightly higher load factors for their flights serving Fresno, each with 94% of their seats filled during the month. For United Airlines, Fresno Yosemite International was ranked second among 155 airports listed. American Airlines’ traffic to and from Fresno had the third highest load factor out of 198 listed airports in October.

The figures represent mainline flights operated by each airline, rather than those provided under contract arrangements with Utah-based SkyWest Airlines. SkyWest flies to and from Fresno under the United Express and American Eagle brands, among others. For SkyWest, the company’s Fresno flights had an average load factor of 91%, 18th out of 220 airports listed for the airline."


The full story with more details is at http://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article271606527.html

Who remembers comments on this site that FAT couldn’t support two 738’s to DFW? Pretty decent stats if the yield is there. G4 is hurting though. For the record, Oct in most years is a pretty decent month at FAT after a soft September.

whatusaid wrote:

FATFlyer wrote:

The Fresno Bee's Tim Sheehan has posted a nice article highlighting FAT's very high October LFs.

FAT was the highest LF among WN stations in October. Second highest LF among UA mainline airports and third highest for AA mainline.

Hopefully a few more months of that will result in some frequency increases or aircraft upgauges.

First few lines excerpt:
"Fresno was among the best-performing domestic air travel markets in the nation for three large U.S. airlines in October, with at least 90% of seats filled on their departing and arriving flights. Enilria.com, a website that crunches Federal Department of Transportation data on airlines and airports, reported that Southwest Airlines’ flights to and from Fresno Yosemite International Airport experienced an average “load factor” of 92% in October, the most recent month for which the federal data is available. That was tops among 107 airports for which information was provided.

United Airlines and American Airlines had slightly higher load factors for their flights serving Fresno, each with 94% of their seats filled during the month. For United Airlines, Fresno Yosemite International was ranked second among 155 airports listed. American Airlines’ traffic to and from Fresno had the third highest load factor out of 198 listed airports in October.

The figures represent mainline flights operated by each airline, rather than those provided under contract arrangements with Utah-based SkyWest Airlines. SkyWest flies to and from Fresno under the United Express and American Eagle brands, among others. For SkyWest, the company’s Fresno flights had an average load factor of 91%, 18th out of 220 airports listed for the airline."


The full story with more details is at http://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article271606527.html

Who remembers comments on this site that FAT couldn’t support two 738’s to DFW? Pretty decent stats if the yield is there. G4 is hurting though. For the record, Oct in most years is a pretty decent month at FAT after a soft September.

Those were the same people who doubted that FAT could support 3+ daily 737s / 319s to LAS...

COS and EUG are two airports I remember that publicly publish load factors by airline brand.

For a quick comparison to FAT's 92% LF on WN:
COS in October: WN - 82.5%
https://coloradosprings.gov/sites/default/files/traffic_summary_report-_oct_22.pdf

EUG in October: WN - 79.52%
https://www.eugene-or.gov/DocumentCenter/View/68168/2022---10-October-Eugene-Airport-Activity-Report

FATFlyer wrote:

COS and EUG are two airports I remember that publicly publish load factors by airline brand.

For a quick comparison to FAT's 92% LF on WN:
COS in October: WN - 82.5%
https://coloradosprings.gov/sites/default/files/traffic_summary_report-_oct_22.pdf

EUG in October: WN - 79.52%
https://www.eugene-or.gov/DocumentCenter/View/68168/2022---10-October-Eugene-Airport-Activity-Report

I think you got to look at COS as being lower because they have 14 daily’s flights vs FAT just saying. And some of those are DEN so I’m guessing that drags the loads down.

On the AS thread they are saying that FAT-LAX is going away entirely. If this is true, FAT will have just one flight every day to LAX, a CR2 on UA. While most Asia connections will now be routed through SEA and SFO, FAT will lose many Oceana connections, particularly on Qantas.

It's crazy to think that a market that had a dozen+ flights every day 20 years ago has fallen all the way to just one flight per day.

While O&D to LAX has been traditionally low, I wonder if we will see someone (UA or DL) add back one flight so there's two per day in total?

Also, interestingly, the FAT Wikipedia page was changed a few days ago to show FAT-YVR on Jazz this summer. It was removed the next day, but I wonder if this was just a prankster or someone with inside info...

flyfresno wrote:

On the AS thread they are saying that FAT-LAX is going away entirely. If this is true, FAT will have just one flight every day to LAX, a CR2 on UA. While most Asia connections will now be routed through SEA and SFO, FAT will lose many Oceana connections, particularly on Qantas.

It's crazy to think that a market that had a dozen+ flights every day 20 years ago has fallen all the way to just one flight per day.

While O&D to LAX has been traditionally low, I wonder if we will see someone (UA or DL) add back one flight so there's two per day in total?

Remember, it's being reported that LAX is quite slow at recovery. This dropping of FAT-LAX might be more on the LA end than the Fresno end of the route. Just because the route is pulled from AS's future schedules for now doesn't mean it won't return -- if the traffic does -- in 2023.

As is also being reported on the thread you referenced, other intra-CA routes are being slashed as well, at least for this spring. Hopefully summer improves.

bb

flyfresno wrote:

Also, interestingly, the FAT Wikipedia page was changed a few days ago to show FAT-YVR on Jazz this summer. It was removed the next day, but I wonder if this was just a prankster or someone with inside info...

The Wikipedia page has been edited to add YVR service several times in the last few days and reversed each time since there has been no identified reference. It also has been popping up on the Wiki pages for both YVR and for AC destinations. Then it has been repeated by some social media users referencing back to those Wiki edits but with no other source. Maybe just people repeating the same rumor or maybe a prank.

A seasonal FAT-YVR has been rumored the last few years. I was told summer 2023/2024/2025 were likely years it might start.

So far I haven't seen or heard anything from any source I consider reliable. If 2023 is the start year for YVR we should hear something definite announced in the next few weeks to catch the summer cruise bookings.

FATFlyer wrote:

flyfresno wrote:

Also, interestingly, the FAT Wikipedia page was changed a few days ago to show FAT-YVR on Jazz this summer. It was removed the next day, but I wonder if this was just a prankster or someone with inside info...

The Wikipedia page has been edited to add YVR service several times in the last few days and reversed each time since there has been no identified reference. It also has been popping up on the Wiki pages for both YVR and for AC destinations. Then it has been repeated by some social media users referencing back to those Wiki edits but with no other source. Maybe just people repeating the same rumor or maybe a prank.

A seasonal FAT-YVR has been rumored the last few years. I was told summer 2023/2024/2025 were likely years it might start.

So far I haven't seen or heard anything from any source I consider reliable. If 2023 is the start year for YVR we should hear something definite announced in the next few weeks to catch the summer cruise bookings.

Until Mexico's safety rating improves, YVR seems like the most likely int'l add right now (SJD by a US carrier probably second)...unless anyone here thinks Volaris El Salvador would take a shot at FAT (just learned today that the only other nation to have a consulate in Fresno besides Mexico is El Salvador).

LAX does appear to be gone from the schedule now on AS.

SAN 3X E175 over the summer.

flyfresno wrote:

Until Mexico's safety rating improves, YVR seems like the most likely int'l add right now (SJD by a US carrier probably second)...unless anyone here thinks Volaris El Salvador would take a shot at FAT (just learned today that the only other nation to have a consulate in Fresno besides Mexico is El Salvador).

The FAA was scheduled to meet with Mexico authorities to prepare for a new Cat 1 a few weeks ago. But it was cancelled by the FAA since it was scheduled the same time as the NOTAM failure. A new meeting is supposed to happen soon with I understand a tentative new audit date planned for March/April.

My guess is that if Mexico recovers Cat 1, VB/G4 already have a route request ready to be filed for at least one Fresno route. The JV materials indicate they want to start FAT-MTY as one of their first routes but I would not be surprised if their first Fresno route turned out to be FAT to SJD or PVR. Volaris told investors in December they have nearly 150 US-Mexico routes they believe they could start in the next few years once new US flights can be added. I imagine that includes new FAT flights.

I doubt Volaris El Salvador would start a flight any time soon. Fresno's El Salvador consulate opened just last year. There are a large number of Salvadorans who have migrated to the area and live in surrounding farm towns. Previously the El Salvador consulate in Los Angeles would send representatives to Fresno a few days each year to be available to assist Salvadoran citizens.

FYI, besides the Mexico and El Salvador consulates Fresno has local honorary consuls representing countries that include Armenia, Italy, Japan, and Lebanon. They provide limited assistance to nationals of those countries.

flyfresno wrote:

LAX does appear to be gone from the schedule now on AS.

SAN 3X E175 over the summer.

I wonder if someone else might add FAT-LAX flights to serve international connections.

FATFlyer wrote:

flyfresno wrote:

LAX does appear to be gone from the schedule now on AS.

SAN 3X E175 over the summer.

I wonder if someone else might add FAT-LAX flights to serve international connections.

I was speculating about that in the AS thread. It's difficult to predict with the shortage of pilots that OO is reportedly experiencing (presumably any LAX service would be on them). I think the most likely (in order) additions are 1) UA, second CR2 in the afternoon, 2) DL, same basic schedule as before, 3) AA, one flight, probably late afternoon turn, 4) WN, extremely unlikely without an onward leg to Hawaii, and still pretty unlikely. Aside from the second UA CR2, I wouldn't hold me breath for any of these...

flyfresno wrote:

FATFlyer wrote:

flyfresno wrote:

LAX does appear to be gone from the schedule now on AS.

SAN 3X E175 over the summer.

I wonder if someone else might add FAT-LAX flights to serve international connections.

I was speculating about that in the AS thread. It's difficult to predict with the shortage of pilots that OO is reportedly experiencing (presumably any LAX service would be on them). I think the most likely (in order) additions are 1) UA, second CR2 in the afternoon, 2) DL, same basic schedule as before, 3) AA, one flight, probably late afternoon turn, 4) WN, extremely unlikely without an onward leg to Hawaii, and still pretty unlikely. Aside from the second UA CR2, I wouldn't hold me breath for any of these...

This may sound far-fetched, but B6 could be another possible add with their new LAX capacity they’ve added recently. I don’t think it’ll happen because they would have to put an A320 on the route, and there’s no way they would fill up that one A320. Maybe in a few years…

FlyLEN2019 wrote:

flyfresno wrote:

FATFlyer wrote:

I wonder if someone else might add FAT-LAX flights to serve international connections.

I was speculating about that in the AS thread. It's difficult to predict with the shortage of pilots that OO is reportedly experiencing (presumably any LAX service would be on them). I think the most likely (in order) additions are 1) UA, second CR2 in the afternoon, 2) DL, same basic schedule as before, 3) AA, one flight, probably late afternoon turn, 4) WN, extremely unlikely without an onward leg to Hawaii, and still pretty unlikely. Aside from the second UA CR2, I wouldn't hold me breath for any of these...

This may sound far-fetched, but B6 could be another possible add with their new LAX capacity they’ve added recently. I don’t think it’ll happen because they would have to put an A320 on the route, and there’s no way they would fill up that one A320. Maybe in a few years…

Given the shortage of pilots at Skywest, we may be stuck with 50 seats for some time. While O&D has dropped dramatically, I can’t help by wonder if the drop is related to the lack of frequency, which turns off business travel. How do I justify an entire day flying to/from LAX for a couple hrs of meetings? Pay a premium for a quick flight to the gridlock that is LAX and log hours of non-productive time doesn’t cut it. Still, I’d rather see LGB or SNA for biz travel. BUR has never worked at FAT, but I’m wondering if Avelo could make that work, say Th/Fri/Sun, and in doing so WN takes notice.

It’s all pretty pathetic that to fly to LAX, you’ve one choice. Well, you could connect through LAS on WN. Same flight time as drive time at non peak hrs, 3:30 hours…..

whatusaid wrote:

FlyLEN2019 wrote:

flyfresno wrote:

I was speculating about that in the AS thread. It's difficult to predict with the shortage of pilots that OO is reportedly experiencing (presumably any LAX service would be on them). I think the most likely (in order) additions are 1) UA, second CR2 in the afternoon, 2) DL, same basic schedule as before, 3) AA, one flight, probably late afternoon turn, 4) WN, extremely unlikely without an onward leg to Hawaii, and still pretty unlikely. Aside from the second UA CR2, I wouldn't hold me breath for any of these...

This may sound far-fetched, but B6 could be another possible add with their new LAX capacity they’ve added recently. I don’t think it’ll happen because they would have to put an A320 on the route, and there’s no way they would fill up that one A320. Maybe in a few years…

Given the shortage of pilots at Skywest, we may be stuck with 50 seats for some time. While O&D has dropped dramatically, I can’t help by wonder if the drop is related to the lack of frequency, which turns off business travel. How do I justify an entire day flying to/from LAX for a couple hrs of meetings? Pay a premium for a quick flight to the gridlock that is LAX and log hours of non-productive time doesn’t cut it. Still, I’d rather see LGB or SNA for biz travel. BUR has never worked at FAT, but I’m wondering if Avelo could make that work, say Th/Fri/Sun, and in doing so WN takes notice.

It’s all pretty pathetic that to fly to LAX, you’ve one choice. Well, you could connect through LAS on WN. Same flight time as drive time at non peak hrs, 3:30 hours…..

If SNA wasn't slot controlled, I think we might see that on AS or WN, but it appears that WN is pushing all their lower yield flights to LGB, and AS probably doesn't have the pilots or slots. I agree that there should be enough O&D to support a morning and afternoon flight to LAX, even with most people opting to drive.

I wonder what impact the loss of nearly all LAX connections will have on summer travel patterns as people start to make plans. I know someone who flew to Hawaii two months ago. After looking at fare differentials and connecting/total travel times at all hubs out of FAT at that time they decided to just drive to LAX and stay in a hotel the night before.