New York City Area Aviation - 2023

hOMSaR · Sun Jan 01, 2023 12:46 am

Welcome to the New York City Area (including JFK/EWR/LGA/SWF/HPN/ISP) Aviation thread - 2023 edition.

Please continue to post your news and discussions below.

Link to the 2022 edition:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1468467

tmu101 · Sun Jan 01, 2023 12:51 am

Happy New Year to all. Any word if new EWR Terminal is still on schedule for an early January opening? Any status updates to the final tests that need to be done (wasn't sprinkler systems or something like that?) Thanks so much!

EWR777 · Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:48 pm

tmu101 wrote:
Happy New Year to all. Any word if new EWR Terminal is still on schedule for an early January opening? Any status updates to the final tests that need to be done (wasn't sprinkler systems or something like that?) Thanks so much!

Jan 12 is the big day

https://thepointsguy.com/news/newark-te ... ening/amp/

panamair · Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:53 pm

Over at JFK, Jan 9 will see the start of Delta's transition of their T2 ops over to T4. By Jan 13, T2 will be closed, and all of Delta's ops will be consolidated in T4. The new T4A extension gates will start opening on Jan 9.

tmu101 · Thu Jan 05, 2023 11:44 pm

EWR777 wrote:
tmu101 wrote:
Happy New Year to all. Any word if new EWR Terminal is still on schedule for an early January opening? Any status updates to the final tests that need to be done (wasn't sprinkler systems or something like that?) Thanks so much!

Jan 12 is the big day

https://thepointsguy.com/news/newark-te ... ening/amp/

Awesome - can't wait. Folks are flying to DFW to visit me and the family on the 13th so they'll get to experience this beautiful terminal (if this schedule holds).

onwFan · Thu Jan 05, 2023 11:45 pm

panamair wrote:
Over at JFK, Jan 9 will see the start of Delta's transition of their T2 ops over to T4. By Jan 13, T2 will be closed, and all of Delta's ops will be consolidated in T4. The new T4A extension gates will start opening on Jan 9.

Thanks for the update! I was wondering when this will happen. I guess this means we will slowly start seeing some non-SkyTeam carriers move out of T4 into the basically empty T7? I know KU already moved from T4 to T7 last month.

tmu101 · Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:02 am

Any plans to use the old EWR Terminal A landside portion for anything when it closes or will it just sit empty until it gets torn down?

STT757 · Fri Jan 06, 2023 3:46 pm

tmu101 wrote:
Any plans to use the old EWR Terminal A landside portion for anything when it closes or will it just sit empty until it gets torn down?

I cannot imagine anything for the public, also I wonder if there might be some asbestos removing undertaken as the building dates back to the early '70s.

spinkid · Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:09 am

Up at SWF, Play is taking about a 5 week break in service before returning at 5X weekly for the last 2 weeks of February and then going daily to Keflavik beginning in March.
They have had poor financial numbers, so I'm not sure if this is a sign of desperation or a sign this route is performing well for them..

Rossiya747 · Tue Jan 10, 2023 11:07 pm

New terminal A at EWR is opening on Thursday! Is anyone flying through there soon? Is there going to be a new United club there like the one at C123? Also, will the switchover from the current A to the new A be basically overnight or gradual? The current AirTrain only stops at the current terminal, I'd assume they would have to be bused over until the AirTrain system is renovated.

Airontario · Tue Jan 10, 2023 11:31 pm

I'm flying out of EWR Thursday morning on Air Canada. I was under the impression the new terminal opened in December. Looks like I'll be on one of the first ever flights out of there.

phatfarmlines · Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:04 pm

And the curtains have drawn for Terminal 2 at JFK. I believe that is it as far as the original Idlewild terminals are concerned.

Oldest Terminal at JFK Airport Closes for Good

Source: NBC New York

BA178 · Mon Jan 16, 2023 11:21 pm

phatfarmlines wrote:
And the curtains have drawn for Terminal 2 at JFK. I believe that is it as far as the original Idlewild terminals are concerned.

Oldest Terminal at JFK Airport Closes for Good

Source: NBC New York

End of an era. I believe this makes T7 the last of the original 9 to still be in operation. By the end of this decade the TWA building will be the only remnant of that period in the CTA--probably for the best.

phatfarmlines · Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:08 am

BA178 wrote:
I believe this makes T7 the last of the original 9 to still be in operation. By the end of this decade the TWA building will be the only remnant of that period in the CTA--probably for the best.

I didn't include T7 since it wasn't part of the original Idlewild complex, but it would make it now the oldest operating terminal at JFK.

tlecam · Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:24 pm

Can’t say im sad to see T2 go.

evank516 · Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:40 pm

tlecam wrote:
Can’t say im sad to see T2 go.

I am. That long walk through T4 to baggage claim is a lot especially if you end up at one of the B gates towards the end of the concourse. Everything was close by in T2.

jbs2886 · Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:56 pm

evank516 wrote:
tlecam wrote:
Can’t say im sad to see T2 go.

I am. That long walk through T4 to baggage claim is a lot especially if you end up at one of the B gates towards the end of the concourse. Everything was close by in T2.

100% agree. Was it the nicest terminal? No. But TSA was fast and you got out of there fast. I would take the Jitney if arriving at the end of T4 to T2 to exit, it was faster (or at least more pleasant).

nycbjr · Tue Jan 17, 2023 9:20 pm

evank516 wrote:
tlecam wrote:
Can’t say im sad to see T2 go.

I am. That long walk through T4 to baggage claim is a lot especially if you end up at one of the B gates towards the end of the concourse. Everything was close by in T2.

Agreed, T4 really isn't that great. Generic looking, and the walk from end to end is too much. I switched to United, EWR Terminal C is actually nicer in comparison!

evank516 · Tue Jan 17, 2023 10:47 pm

nycbjr wrote:
evank516 wrote:
tlecam wrote:
Can’t say im sad to see T2 go.

I am. That long walk through T4 to baggage claim is a lot especially if you end up at one of the B gates towards the end of the concourse. Everything was close by in T2.

Agreed, T4 really isn't that great. Generic looking, and the walk from end to end is too much. I switched to United, EWR Terminal C is actually nicer in comparison!

If Newark wasn't such a pain to go back and fourth from Long Island, I'd fly to EWR :spin:

AmericanAir88 · Wed Jan 18, 2023 7:47 pm

evank516 wrote:
tlecam wrote:
Can’t say im sad to see T2 go.

I am. That long walk through T4 to baggage claim is a lot especially if you end up at one of the B gates towards the end of the concourse. Everything was close by in T2.

DL should really invest in a MSP-style train for the B gates. The walk at T4B is equivalent to the C Gates at MSP.

I did read that they are building a new baggage claim in that area..

NYC-air · Wed Jan 18, 2023 7:51 pm

Does anyone have any updates or photos from JFK T4? I understand the A extension has opened but that some other areas (expanded baggage claim) have not opened yet?

If I were DL I'd try to push as many flights into A and the closer B gates as possible. Push as many foreign carriers to the far B gates as possible. The walks are probably the worst part of T4 but DL has a shot at eliminating them for the large majority of their flights.

tlecam · Sat Jan 21, 2023 2:43 pm

evank516 wrote:
tlecam wrote:
Can’t say im sad to see T2 go.

I am. That long walk through T4 to baggage claim is a lot especially if you end up at one of the B gates towards the end of the concourse. Everything was close by in T2.

For me it was just too crowded, too cramped, especially when they were using it for TATL flights. Sky Club was packed, and it reminded me of someone’s basement that had been spruced up.

I do agree that it was convenient to get in and out of. I personally don’t mind the T4 walks, but I recognize that the design is flawed for many people.

phatfarmlines · Sat Feb 11, 2023 5:46 pm

NYC-air wrote:
Does anyone have any updates or photos from JFK T4? I understand the A extension has opened but that some other areas (expanded baggage claim) have not opened yet?

If I were DL I'd try to push as many flights into A and the closer B gates as possible. Push as many foreign carriers to the far B gates as possible. The walks are probably the worst part of T4 but DL has a shot at eliminating them for the large majority of their flights.

4K Walking Tour: new Concourse A, Terminal 4, at JFK.

Source: YT user "The No-Nonsense Travel Guide"

jdh823 · Sat Feb 18, 2023 7:38 pm

LH400 flying to EWR today as opposed to the normal JFK with a 747-400.

They'll be back to JFK tomorrow. Any reason why they did this?

ContinentalEWR · Sat Feb 18, 2023 8:11 pm

jdh823 wrote:
LH400 flying to EWR today as opposed to the normal JFK with a 747-400.

They'll be back to JFK tomorrow. Any reason why they did this?

Because LH uses Terminal 1 (and partly owns it at JFK) and Terminal 1 remains closed, following a fire and a power outage Thursday. The PANYNJ is waiting for a part that should complete the repairs so T1 can reopen. Many flights using T1 at JFK have either been cancelled or diverted since Thursday.

mikejepp · Sat Feb 18, 2023 9:23 pm

So.... completely random idea and curious what you all think of it. Could HPN be a feasible destination for Aer Lingus with an A321LR/XLR?

- No customs required, DUB is precleared
- HPN is a high wealth area and one would think trans-atlantic service could be sustainable
- This route is similar in length to LIH-PHX, which is also flown with a (high density!) A321 off a similar length runway
- Would provide a one stop connection to a large number of European destinations without requiring going through one of the major airports

Anyways, I think it'd be cool and it seems plausible to me.

MavyWavyATR · Wed Mar 15, 2023 2:57 am

Do we happen to know what the biggest unserved markets are for ISP? Feel like MX and/or WN can help ISP grow further by adding them to/from the Island.

jplatts · Wed Mar 15, 2023 1:53 pm

MavyWavyATR wrote:
Do we happen to know what the biggest unserved markets are for ISP? Feel like MX and/or WN can help ISP grow further by adding them to/from the Island.

Here are the Q3 2022 PDEW's of the top contiguous U.S. destinations traveled to from ISP that aren't currently served nonstop from ISP:
ISP-ATL - 62
ISP-CLT - 16
ISP-JAX - 14
ISP-RSW - 13
ISP-DEN - 12
ISP-SRQ - 11
ISP-DAL - 11
ISP-MDW - 10
ISP-MIA - 9
ISP-PHX - 9
ISP-AUS - 8
ISP-ORD - 8
ISP-PIT - 7
ISP-MSY - 7
ISP-BUF - 6
ISP-SAT - 6
ISP-HOU - 6
ISP-CMH - 6
ISP-STL - 6
ISP-LAS - 5
ISP-SDF - 5
ISP-CVG - 5
ISP-CLE - 5

ISP can likely support WN nonstop service to ATL with ISP-ATL having had significantly higher PDEW's than the other markets that don't currently have any nonstop service out of ISP along with the connections that WN would be able to offer through ATL.

If WN adds ISP-ATL nonstop service, WN would also likely have more O&D traffic on ISP-ATL than on routes such as ATL-GSP/JAN/LIT.

DL adding ISP-ATL nonstop service is also a possibility as DL would be able to easily fill an E-175, CRJ-900, A220-100, or 717 on ISP-ATL with the amount of O&D demand that is there to ATL from ISP and the significant FF base that DL has on Long Island due to DL's LGA/JFK hubs. DL also still serves HPN in the NYC market in addition to LGA/JFK/EWR.

MavyWavyATR · Thu Mar 16, 2023 2:58 am

jplatts wrote:
Here are the Q3 2022 PDEW's of the top contiguous U.S. destinations traveled to from ISP that aren't currently served nonstop from ISP:
ISP-ATL - 62
ISP-CLT - 16
ISP-JAX - 14
ISP-RSW - 13
ISP-DEN - 12
ISP-SRQ - 11
ISP-DAL - 11
ISP-MDW - 10
ISP-MIA - 9
ISP-PHX - 9
ISP-AUS - 8
ISP-ORD - 8
ISP-PIT - 7
ISP-MSY - 7
ISP-BUF - 6
ISP-SAT - 6
ISP-HOU - 6
ISP-CMH - 6
ISP-STL - 6
ISP-LAS - 5
ISP-SDF - 5
ISP-CVG - 5
ISP-CLE - 5

One destination that I'm surprised that isn't on the list is LAX; especially given the bottomless demand between NY & LA. Feel like MX could do really well on that if they offered it.

jplatts wrote:
ISP can likely support WN nonstop service to ATL with ISP-ATL having had significantly higher PDEW's than the other markets that don't currently have any nonstop service out of ISP along with the connections that WN would be able to offer through ATL.

If WN adds ISP-ATL nonstop service, WN would also likely have more O&D traffic on ISP-ATL than on routes such as ATL-GSP/JAN/LIT.

DL adding ISP-ATL nonstop service is also a possibility as DL would be able to easily fill an E-175, CRJ-900, A220-100, or 717 on ISP-ATL with the amount of O&D demand that is there to ATL from ISP and the significant FF base that DL has on Long Island due to DL's LGA/JFK hubs. DL also still serves HPN in the NYC market in addition to LGA/JFK/EWR.

Both WN & DL shouldn't have a problem filling planes between ISP & ATL, but can the market support both of them simultaneously? Because if WN launches it, you can bet DL will jump in immediately after.

evank516 · Thu Mar 16, 2023 1:54 pm

I would KILL to see DL back at ISP. I really miss having them there. They could easily make 1-2 ATL flights work and there's probably enough demand to make it 717 worthy. Ideally the best move would be 1-2x ATL and 2-3x DTW.

STT757 · Thu Mar 16, 2023 2:31 pm

I think Frontier would be the most likely to launch ISP-ATL.

evank516 · Thu Mar 16, 2023 2:39 pm

STT757 wrote:
I think Frontier would be the most likely to launch ISP-ATL.

They flew it seasonally for a few years. Unfortunately they dropped it but it makes sense. Everyone flying to ATL from the area is flying Delta, Southwest, or jetBlue.

NJFlyer27 · Thu Mar 16, 2023 5:08 pm

evank516 wrote:
STT757 wrote:
I think Frontier would be the most likely to launch ISP-ATL.

They flew it seasonally for a few years. Unfortunately they dropped it but it makes sense. Everyone flying to ATL from the area is flying Delta, Southwest, or jetBlue.

If Frontier gave ATL a shot from SWF last year, than I believe ISP is worth a shot.

https://news.flyfrontier.com/frontier-a ... gh-durham/

I’m really surprised Frontier has not been able to make SWF another TTN operation.

evank516 · Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:01 pm

NJFlyer27 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
STT757 wrote:
I think Frontier would be the most likely to launch ISP-ATL.

They flew it seasonally for a few years. Unfortunately they dropped it but it makes sense. Everyone flying to ATL from the area is flying Delta, Southwest, or jetBlue.

If Frontier gave ATL a shot from SWF last year, than I believe ISP is worth a shot.

https://news.flyfrontier.com/frontier-a ... gh-durham/

I’m really surprised Frontier has not been able to make SWF another TTN operation.

Frontier was already in ISP-ATL. It was seasonal for a few years. Not sure if it's coming back.

MavyWavyATR · Sat Mar 25, 2023 5:37 am

Assuming that B6 has to give up slots in JFK in order for their merger with NK to be approved, could we possibly see a ULCC (ex: F9, SY) decide to give JFK a shot, especially if they want to enter the competitive transcon market?

trueblew · Sat Mar 25, 2023 4:07 pm

MavyWavyATR wrote:
Assuming that B6 has to give up slots in JFK in order for their merger with NK to be approved, could we possibly see a ULCC (ex: F9, SY) decide to give JFK a shot, especially if they want to enter the competitive transcon market?

Why would JetBlue give up a JFK slot as they gain zero at JFK through this merger? SY have given JFK a shot in the past, and I would assume it wasn't successful enough to sustain.

jdh823 · Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:49 am

Did emirates kill its DXB-EWR route? I know they used to have a direct but I noticed when United started EWRDXB I did not see the Emirates flight listed anymore. Just the one with the stopover at Athens...

RollerRB211 · Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:10 am

MavyWavyATR wrote:
Assuming that B6 has to give up slots in JFK in order for their merger with NK to be approved, could we possibly see a ULCC (ex: F9, SY) decide to give JFK a shot, especially if they want to enter the competitive transcon market?

SY was in JFK until 2019 and ran flights to MSP and, for a short period of time, PBI.

B6SpiritofEWR · Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:11 pm

jdh823 wrote:
Did emirates kill its DXB-EWR route? I know they used to have a direct but I noticed when United started EWRDXB I did not see the Emirates flight listed anymore. Just the one with the stopover at Athens...

That route hasn’t flown for over 3 years now…

MavyWavyATR · Sat Apr 08, 2023 3:47 pm

With MX suspending HPN-LAX indefinitely (per Ishrion), it wouldn't surprise me if B6 decided to try the route themselves now.

acavpics · Sun Apr 23, 2023 3:57 pm

I just flew from JFK for the first time in 8 years, and I didn't hear Carolyn Hopkins's voice at all. Previously, I remember her doing AirTrain, boarding, and arrival announcements. Does her voice still come up at any of the terminals nowadays?

onwFan · Tue May 16, 2023 11:58 pm

I did not see any news on this or it being announced anywhere yet, but it looks like Ethiopian Airlines (ET) is moving out of Terminal 8 into Terminal 7 from tomorrow, May 17th, 2023 onwards. It shows up when you book any flights from the US on their website:-

“Dear Esteemed Customers,
We are moving to JFK-Terminal 7 from 17th May 2023, check-in area Zone A. Check-in starts four hours before your flight.”

https://dxbooking.ethiopianairlines.com ... 6a76d341c8

If I am not mistaken, this makes T8 completely oneworld + AA partner/rumored member CZ. JAL is supposed to move into T8 this month, making AT (T1) and AS (T7) the only oneworld members not in T8.

ContinentalEWR · Wed May 17, 2023 1:34 am

onwFan wrote:
I did not see any news on this or it being announced anywhere yet, but it looks like Ethiopian Airlines (ET) is moving out of Terminal 8 into Terminal 7 from tomorrow, May 17th, 2023 onwards. It shows up when you book any flights from the US on their website:-

“Dear Esteemed Customers,
We are moving to JFK-Terminal 7 from 17th May 2023, check-in area Zone A. Check-in starts four hours before your flight.”

https://dxbooking.ethiopianairlines.com ... 6a76d341c8

If I am not mistaken, this makes T8 completely oneworld + AA partner/rumored member CZ. JAL is supposed to move into T8 this month, making AT (T1) and AS (T7) the only oneworld members not in T8.

Believe ET's move is tied to JL moving in, which was planned (and announced around the time BA moved into T8). QF is restarting JFK in June with 3 x weekly JFK-AKL-SYD. Rumor is that AT will move later this year. Yes, T8 is essentially the OW hub at JFK but for AS. It has been speculated that AS would move to T8 but right now, I don't see how. AS would need multiple gates and I'm not sure there is the space for them to run the full schedule of SEA, SFO, PDX, SAN, but it would be cool if they moved out of T7. Eventually, once phase 1 of T6 is done, T7 will close.

twaconnie · Thu May 18, 2023 2:29 pm

I understand EI is alos moving to T7 sometime in May 23.

panamair · Thu May 18, 2023 2:49 pm

twaconnie wrote:
I understand EI is alos moving to T7 sometime in May 23.

EI is already at T7. Not sure when they moved but they were already there at the end of April when I flew AS out of T7.

bval · Thu May 18, 2023 9:38 pm

panamair wrote:
twaconnie wrote:
I understand EI is alos moving to T7 sometime in May 23.

EI is already at T7. Not sure when they moved but they were already there at the end of April when I flew AS out of T7.

I flew into T5 today and can confirm they’re gone and the EI sign is up at T7.

onwFan · Wed May 24, 2023 2:02 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
onwFan wrote:
I did not see any news on this or it being announced anywhere yet, but it looks like Ethiopian Airlines (ET) is moving out of Terminal 8 into Terminal 7 from tomorrow, May 17th, 2023 onwards. It shows up when you book any flights from the US on their website:-

“Dear Esteemed Customers,
We are moving to JFK-Terminal 7 from 17th May 2023, check-in area Zone A. Check-in starts four hours before your flight.”

https://dxbooking.ethiopianairlines.com ... 6a76d341c8

If I am not mistaken, this makes T8 completely oneworld + AA partner/rumored member CZ. JAL is supposed to move into T8 this month, making AT (T1) and AS (T7) the only oneworld members not in T8.

Believe ET's move is tied to JL moving in, which was planned (and announced around the time BA moved into T8). QF is restarting JFK in June with 3 x weekly JFK-AKL-SYD. Rumor is that AT will move later this year. Yes, T8 is essentially the OW hub at JFK but for AS. It has been speculated that AS would move to T8 but right now, I don't see how. AS would need multiple gates and I'm not sure there is the space for them to run the full schedule of SEA, SFO, PDX, SAN, but it would be cool if they moved out of T7. Eventually, once phase 1 of T6 is done, T7 will close.

Yes, JL is relocating to T8 on May 28th, 2023.

https://www.jal.co.jp/jp/en/inter/airport/jfk/info/

As for AS, I wouldn’t imagine it to be as big of an issue because most of their flights depart/arrive in the morning and early evening, when T8 should not be as busy.
- They have 8 flights 7 am - 2 pm, 2 flights 4-5 pm and 2 flights 7-9 pm.
- 5 arrivals 6-8 am, 4 arrivals 3-7 pm, 3 arrivals 10-11 pm

bval · Wed May 24, 2023 4:04 pm

As someone who holds AA status and has upcoming transcons and TATL flights on both AS and AT I am crossing my fingers that both move to T8 sooner rather than later. That would make my 9K flights the only time I have to deal with anything other than T8. The security line at both T1 and T7 are insane.

phatfarmlines · Sun May 28, 2023 7:54 pm

Anyone know what the construction is at JFK T4 headhouse? It was observed at the end of the trip report video as the YouTube creator was taking a bus to gate B23.

Also noted DL is remote boarding and deplaning mainline aircraft at JFK - that is seldom seen.

First Class Delta Air Lines Miami to New York JFK May 9 2023 Boeing 737-800

Source: YT user "Michael Landman"

acavpics · Mon May 29, 2023 1:06 am

Last month, I flew from JFK for the first time in 8 years, and I didn't hear Carolyn Hopkins's voice at all. Previously, I remember her doing AirTrain, boarding, and arrival announcements. Does her voice still come up at any of the terminals nowadays?

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