Oregon Aviation - 2023

kwbl · Fri Feb 17, 2023 5:32 am

The NW gates were the “L” gates 50-63 and I too remember the NW DC10s at gate 50. The “K” gates were 40-49 and are the current D gates. Never understood the lettering (J,K, L and eventually “M”)

AS737MAX · Fri Feb 17, 2023 7:28 am

kwbl wrote:
The NW gates were the “L” gates 50-63 and I too remember the NW DC10s at gate 50. The “K” gates were 40-49 and are the current D gates. Never understood the lettering (J,K, L and eventually “M”)

For further reference:
http://www.departedflights.com/PDX87.html
http://www.departedflights.com/PDX89.html
http://www.departedflights.com/DLPDX0499.html

ramprat74 · Fri Feb 17, 2023 2:09 pm

Sorry, I meant D1 not B1. The old C concourse gate hold rooms were tiny. The ramps that you had to walk down to the door took a lot of space for seats.

Pdxfan · Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:41 pm

ramprat74 wrote:
Brand new terminal and same old stuffy and way too small baggage claim. It looks like the new gate E1 will be were the north atrium is today. I wonder if gate B1 will be removed because of ramp spacing, B1 always had a weird small hold room.

Yeah it's too bad they couldn't raise the ceiling or something down there in bag claim. Maybe it'll get some kind of refresh to make it feel less cave- like.

teachpdx · Fri Feb 17, 2023 6:51 pm

Pdxfan wrote:
ramprat74 wrote:
Brand new terminal and same old stuffy and way too small baggage claim. It looks like the new gate E1 will be were the north atrium is today. I wonder if gate B1 will be removed because of ramp spacing, B1 always had a weird small hold room.

Yeah it's too bad they couldn't raise the ceiling or something down there in bag claim. Maybe it'll get some kind of refresh to make it feel less cave- like.

They are punching two new escalators down to baggage claim at the north and south ends, and these have a large circular “skylight” cut into the ceiling of baggage claim… open to the huge new terminal above… so I think that will help make it feel more open at the north and south ends, at least.

It is a missed opportunity to open it up a bit more, but it completely makes sense with the phasing approach and needing to keep the airport operational during the terminal construction. The baggage handling has remained operational and uninterrupted with the demolition and new construction happening directly above.

lhpdx · Fri Feb 17, 2023 7:29 pm

I absolutely love all of the illustrations I've seen so far for the PDXNext project.....Does the POP plan to fully extend D once this project is completed?

AlnessW · Sat Feb 18, 2023 12:09 am

teachpdx wrote:
Regarding PDXNext and the new terminal building:
I finally got around to tracking down architectural drawings online and have a couple answers for y’all re: circulation and how things are going to work compared to how they are now:

Really great post - thank you! :bigthumbsup:

I'm good on what I've said before, but this does indeed clarify quite a lot of things.

teachpdx wrote:
2) At Ticketing/Check-In there will be four rows of check-in counters oriented E-W (currently they run in one line N-S). The two center rows will be open desks, very European while the rows at the north and south seem more traditional. There will be some big (real) trees in this area.

Generally speaking, "open desks" appear to be a lot more common nowadays in lieu of "ticket counters" - guessing some combination of visual appeal and updating technology, e.g. no one building CRT screens into ticket counters anymore... I hope it won't just be a mess of self-service machines with people tripping over each other trying to self-tag bags - but I wonder if said "open desks" will be connected to the bag sorting system?

teachpdx wrote:
6) Upon arrival, the circulation remains similar to how it is currently set up, but the arrivals greeting areas on the departure level have grown and have better amenities, it looks like. They are much more separated from the ticketing lobby, becoming their own space. There will be a direct escalator from each arrivals greeting area down to baggage claim, instead of having to walk to the center escalators as you do now.

This all seems to be a long time coming, I remember when you used to have to "swim upstream" from TSA through the departures lobby just to get to baggage claim and arrivals area!

teachpdx wrote:
It appears that B1 will be located in the approximate location of the existing south atrium, beneath the new Alaska lounge. It may actually be a completely new gate with the remainder of B getting renumbered, but I’m not too sure. The same may be true about E1 and the E concourse, as well. The new post-security atriums are both moving west into the ~400’ of concourse C and D that are now incorporated into the footprint of the terminal.

Yeah, gate numbering has been messed up for a while now but you are probably correct on that as well. Currently, E1 is the atrium which connects TSA lobby to the old concourse connector going to concourse D.

Chugach wrote:
As others have said, the United Club went in when E was originally built about 30-ish years ago. It’s also worth noting that in those days PDX was a much bigger station for UA than it is now.

Red Carpet Club is definitely a relic of a different era for United in PDX. Just the other day, I was thinking back to the big United Express-SkyWest station over at the end of concourse E!

AS737MAX wrote:
What, if anything, occupies the space visible in the second “node” in CC-D, near the statue of Gov. Atiyeh?

If it's the space I'm thinking of - nothing still, last I was over there. I love that statue, but the surrounding retail stands have been vacant for the last...20 years? Or are you talking about somewhere else?

AlnessW · Sat Feb 18, 2023 12:11 am

On the subject of international flights... Is every carrier parking arrivals in the FIS facility at D10-D15? Or - are flights like Alaskan coming from Mexico docking in their home-C concourse, then busing to FIS? The obvious drawback with a carrier like theirs offloading at D10-D15 would mean having to tow aircraft around afterwards for the next departure?

I've had many domestic departures and arrivals down in the D concourse atrium (it's among my favorite areas of the airport), but never been through FIS there.

TransWorldOne · Sat Feb 18, 2023 12:17 am

It looks like DL’s PDX-HND flight is no longer available to book through November.

TransWorldOne · Sat Feb 18, 2023 12:35 am

TransWorldOne wrote:
It looks like DL’s PDX-HND flight is no longer bookable on Delta.com through October.

TransWorldOne · Sat Feb 18, 2023 12:37 am

TransWorldOne wrote:
TransWorldOne wrote:
It looks like DL’s PDX-HND flight is no longer bookable on Delta.com through October.

Edited original post to say “through October”. First bookable flight is on November 1st”

flyoregon · Sat Feb 18, 2023 2:06 am

TransWorldOne wrote:
TransWorldOne wrote:
TransWorldOne wrote:
It looks like DL’s PDX-HND flight is no longer bookable on Delta.com through October.

Edited original post to say “through October”. First bookable flight is on November 1st”

Getting ridiculous…

Chugach · Sat Feb 18, 2023 2:53 am

AlnessW wrote:
On the subject of international flights... Is every carrier parking arrivals in the FIS facility at D10-D15? Or - are flights like Alaskan coming from Mexico docking in their home-C concourse, then busing to FIS? The obvious drawback with a carrier like theirs offloading at D10-D15 would mean having to tow aircraft around afterwards for the next departure?

I've had many domestic departures and arrivals down in the D concourse atrium (it's among my favorite areas of the airport), but never been through FIS there.

Short answer is no. When AS arrives from Mexico they park at the end of D, and the aircraft turns from that same D gate. I’ve had a few AS departures on D.

AlnessW · Sat Feb 18, 2023 4:25 am

Chugach wrote:
Short answer is no. When AS arrives from Mexico they park at the end of D, and the aircraft turns from that same D gate. I’ve had a few AS departures on D.

Interesting! I would have thought that DL, HA, BA, Y4, FI, etc. had preferential use of those gates.

It occurs to me that AS doing anything on concourse D must complicate things from a connections standpoint. If you were coming in on a flight into C, you would have to re-clear security just to make the connection (or vice-versa). International too, since the FIS exit feeds into concourse D... I suppose you would have to bus to international arrivals with local folks, then walk back upstairs to the A-B-C checkpoint - seems like a hassle to me.

AC4500 · Sat Feb 18, 2023 5:52 am

flyoregon wrote:
TransWorldOne wrote:
TransWorldOne wrote:

Edited original post to say “through October”. First bookable flight is on November 1st”

Getting ridiculous…

A broader discussion needs to be had about this: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1481655&p=23681119#p23681119

pdxav8r · Sat Feb 18, 2023 6:34 am

AlnessW wrote:
Chugach wrote:
Short answer is no. When AS arrives from Mexico they park at the end of D, and the aircraft turns from that same D gate. I’ve had a few AS departures on D.

Interesting! I would have thought that DL, HA, BA, Y4, FI, etc. had preferential use of those gates.

It occurs to me that AS doing anything on concourse D must complicate things from a connections standpoint. If you were coming in on a flight into C, you would have to re-clear security just to make the connection (or vice-versa). International too, since the FIS exit feeds into concourse D... I suppose you would have to bus to international arrivals with local folks, then walk back upstairs to the A-B-C checkpoint - seems like a hassle to me.

Currently, yes, a big hassle. But the course connector is coming back with the renovation, at least that is what I thought I saw, so no second security line.

midway7 · Sat Feb 18, 2023 2:07 pm

Right now, without the concourse connector in place, if an AS flight uses Concourse D, a connection between this and Concourse B, C does require a TSA rescreen. International passengers arriving on AS all go through FIS and exit in the main terminal whether their final destination is PDX or onward. Connecting passengers will rescreen at either the BC or DE checkpoint, depending on gate assignment for their onward flight. Back when I worked at PDX, inbound international pax making a connection were told they could go to the express line at the TSA checkpoint, if they did not have TSA precheck. I left PDX back in 2021, so I am not sure if this is still allowed.

Concourse D can get pretty busy, but the airlines seem to manage use of the gates with each other. AS used Concourse D more before QX moved into the new Concourse B. Now they just use it for international arrivals and the aircrafts next departure.

Pdxfan · Sat Feb 18, 2023 9:37 pm

teachpdx wrote:
Pdxfan wrote:
ramprat74 wrote:
Brand new terminal and same old stuffy and way too small baggage claim. It looks like the new gate E1 will be were the north atrium is today. I wonder if gate B1 will be removed because of ramp spacing, B1 always had a weird small hold room.

Yeah it's too bad they couldn't raise the ceiling or something down there in bag claim. Maybe it'll get some kind of refresh to make it feel less cave- like.

They are punching two new escalators down to baggage claim at the north and south ends, and these have a large circular “skylight” cut into the ceiling of baggage claim… open to the huge new terminal above… so I think that will help make it feel more open at the north and south ends, at least.

It is a missed opportunity to open it up a bit more, but it completely makes sense with the phasing approach and needing to keep the airport operational during the terminal construction. The baggage handling has remained operational and uninterrupted with the demolition and new construction happening directly above.

Great thank you for all the details! Nice to know they'll brighten up the baggage claim space with the expansion/ skylights.

AlnessW · Sun Feb 19, 2023 12:06 am

midway7 wrote:
International passengers arriving on AS all go through FIS and exit in the main terminal whether their final destination is PDX or onward.

Ahhh, OK - makes me wonder if TSA ever uses that checkpoint at the FIS exit (between D9 and D11) to screen connecting passengers, rather than just sending them back to int'l arrivals...

According to an old terminal map I dug out from the early-2000s, there used to be a connector bus between gates D2 and C6. Don't see why such a thing couldn't be implemented currently, unless construction debris etc. would prohibit it.

midway7 wrote:
Concourse D can get pretty busy, but the airlines seem to manage use of the gates with each other. AS used Concourse D more before QX moved into the new Concourse B. Now they just use it for international arrivals and the aircrafts next departure.

It IS nice seeing the extra activity nowadays - I remember years ago it being pretty quiet and empty, with the D10-D15 atrium servicing maybe 1-2 flights per day at most.

TransWorldOne · Sun Feb 19, 2023 1:54 am

AlnessW wrote:
midway7 wrote:
International passengers arriving on AS all go through FIS and exit in the main terminal whether their final destination is PDX or onward.

Ahhh, OK - makes me wonder if TSA ever uses that checkpoint at the FIS exit (between D9 and D11) to screen connecting passengers, rather than just sending them back to int'l arrivals...

According to an old terminal map I dug out from the early-2000s, there used to be a connector bus between gates D2 and C6. Don't see why such a thing couldn't be implemented currently, unless construction debris etc. would prohibit it.

midway7 wrote:
Concourse D can get pretty busy, but the airlines seem to manage use of the gates with each other. AS used Concourse D more before QX moved into the new Concourse B. Now they just use it for international arrivals and the aircrafts next departure.

It IS nice seeing the extra activity nowadays - I remember years ago it being pretty quiet and empty, with the D10-D15 atrium servicing maybe 1-2 flights per day at most.

The TSA checkpoint on D is used all the time for passengers connecting from international flights.

midway7 · Sun Feb 19, 2023 1:28 pm

The TSA checkpoint on D is used all the time for passengers connecting from international flights.[/quote]

It was closed during the pandemic and had not reopened when I stopped working at PDX in Nov 2021. If it has reopened that is great!

If you are connecting from international to a domestic flight on the DE concourse, it is the way to go. However, with the connector gone, if you are going to BC it probably makes more sense to exit with local pax, then rescreen at the BC checkpoint. This would avoid having to rescreen to come up from INTL to DE, then exit and rescreen again at BC.

Phobia07 · Sun Feb 19, 2023 11:46 pm

saw in the american airlines thread that AA is relaunching PDX-PHL

ooslc · Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:28 pm

G4 announced 2x weekly ATW-PDX flights this summer.

ATW-PDX: 6:30am-8:50am
PDX-ATW: 9:40am-3:20pm
in local times

https://www.postcrescent.com/story/mone ... 912187007/

AC4500 · Mon Feb 20, 2023 7:30 pm

ATW? That's an interesting one. Really think G4 would be successful on routes like PDX-CVG/IND. Maybe they're hesitant on account of a possible AS response.

Also glad to see PHL resumed. Looks like it's 4x weekly (Thursday - Sunday; Airbus A321).

PHL-PDX: 6:40 PM - 9:50 PM
PDX-PHL: 10:10 PM - 6:10 AM (+1)

chrisair · Mon Feb 20, 2023 9:29 pm

AlnessW wrote:
According to an old terminal map I dug out from the early-2000s, there used to be a connector bus between gates D2 and C6. Don't see why such a thing couldn't be implemented currently, unless construction debris etc. would prohibit it.

There isn't a way up from the ramp at C6, except through the jetway. If memory serves me, that bus used C18 after the high C gates opened.

DividedSky · Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:32 pm

ooslc wrote:
G4 announced 2x weekly ATW-PDX flights this summer.

ATW? Wow. Not a route I would have predicted in a million years. The girl I dated in college lived between ATW and MKE and I made many trips to that small airport in the 90s...

midway7 · Tue Feb 21, 2023 12:36 pm

ATW is a cool add. Puts you right near Green Bay and Door County WI. And in the vicinity of northern WI and the UP of MI. Would not be a bad weekend trip if you could trust the schedule. One cancellation and I am sure it will be an adventure trying to get back from ATW to PDX in irrops.

AlnessW · Tue Feb 21, 2023 5:10 pm

AC4500 wrote:
Also glad to see PHL resumed. Looks like it's 4x weekly (Thursday - Sunday; Airbus A321).

PHL-PDX: 6:40 PM - 9:50 PM
PDX-PHL: 10:10 PM - 6:10 AM (+1)

Sweeeeet!

midway7 wrote:
It was closed during the pandemic and had not reopened when I stopped working at PDX in Nov 2021. If it has reopened that is great!

This is more in-tune with what I remember...

midway7 wrote:
If you are connecting from international to a domestic flight on the DE concourse, it is the way to go. However, with the connector gone, if you are going to BC it probably makes more sense to exit with local pax, then rescreen at the BC checkpoint. This would avoid having to rescreen to come up from INTL to DE, then exit and rescreen again at BC.

Someone who has been through FIS should confirm this - but according to Airport Wayfinder videos on the FlyPDX site (which now appear to be removed? :confused:

) there are 2 x exits from FIS downstairs. 1st is bag recheck and escalator up to the D-E checkpoint, the other is a bus station to int'l arrivals next door to UA's bag carousel.

chrisair wrote:
There isn't a way up from the ramp at C6, except through the jetway. If memory serves me, that bus used C18 after the high C gates opened.

According to this map it was C6, right next door to the food court...it shows stairs at both C6 and C16?
http://sidestreet.com/pdx/

zonks · Tue Feb 21, 2023 8:15 pm

Nice to see the return of PDX-PHL but that eastbound schedule is absolutely useless for business travel.

And ATW? I cannot believe this airport has no N/S service to BNA and MIA but I guess it's nice that folks can travel to Appleton.

AC4500 · Tue Feb 21, 2023 8:24 pm

zonks wrote:
Nice to see the return of PDX-PHL but that eastbound schedule is absolutely useless for business travel.

And there are no Europe connections either. An early morning PDX departure would be nice. Especially since PDX-CLT is, and has pretty much always only ever been a red-eye flight.

zonks wrote:
And ATW? I cannot believe this airport has no N/S service to BNA and MIA but I guess it's nice that folks can travel to Appleton.

That's G4's business model for you. They seem to find a way to make it work. Nothing against Appleton of course, but when SY had a focus city in PDX, we got nonstop flights to larger markets like BNA, SAT, STL, and even "tried" to compete against AS on popular markets like PDX-HNL/LAS/PHX/PSP/SAN/SFO/SJD. Although they did throw in a small market every now and then (i.e. PDX-MSN) as well.

AlnessW · Tue Feb 21, 2023 10:54 pm

Also...20 minutes to offload, load, and turn an A321?

AC4500 · Tue Feb 21, 2023 11:50 pm

AlnessW wrote:
Also...20 minutes to offload, load, and turn an A321?

I believe the A321 is turning from DFW.

PHLspecial · Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:11 am

AC4500 wrote:
zonks wrote:
Nice to see the return of PDX-PHL but that eastbound schedule is absolutely useless for business travel.

And there are no Europe connections either. An early morning PDX departure would be nice. Especially since PDX-CLT is, and has pretty much always only ever been a red-eye flight.

Weird, I would think there would be enough time for the crew to overnight in PDX and fly out at 9/10am

midway7 · Wed Feb 22, 2023 11:58 am

midway7 wrote:
If you are connecting from international to a domestic flight on the DE concourse, it is the way to go. However, with the connector gone, if you are going to BC it probably makes more sense to exit with local pax, then rescreen at the BC checkpoint. This would avoid having to rescreen to come up from INTL to DE, then exit and rescreen again at BC.

Someone who has been through FIS should confirm this - but according to Airport Wayfinder videos on the FlyPDX site (which now appear to be removed? :confused:

) there are 2 x exits from FIS downstairs. 1st is bag recheck and escalator up to the D-E checkpoint, the other is a bus station to int'l arrivals next door to UA's bag carousel.

I checked with a former colleague that currently works at the airport. I am told the FIS exit to the DE concourse is available for Delta flights. However, like anything else, I am sure day to day availability probably depends on pax demand and staffing. Not a firm answer, but I hope it helps.

NWAESC · Wed Feb 22, 2023 2:38 pm

zonks wrote:
Nice to see the return of PDX-PHL but that eastbound schedule is absolutely useless for business travel.

And ATW? I cannot believe this airport has no N/S service to BNA and MIA but I guess it's nice that folks can travel to Appleton.

That one surprised me too, but ATW has a pretty big catchment area (larger still if you count GRB's in with it).

It's a beautiful part of the world! Just not in...February.

AlnessW · Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:31 pm

AC4500 wrote:
I believe the A321 is turning from DFW.

I just checked and didn't see this flight on Port of Portland's schedule yet, but something like what you describe would make more sense = send an aircraft otherwise waiting overnight out to PHL. I did notice AA moved to the US Air gates, probably offering more room for AS at C9 and C11.

midway7 wrote:
I checked with a former colleague that currently works at the airport. I am told the FIS exit to the DE concourse is available for Delta flights. However, like anything else, I am sure day to day availability probably depends on pax demand and staffing. Not a firm answer, but I hope it helps.

Clear as day! Sounds a bit similar to something like LAX's FIS ops - CBP or in this case TSA moving staff around, depending on need and availability.

AC4500 · Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:57 pm

AlnessW wrote:
I just checked and didn't see this flight on Port of Portland's schedule yet, but something like what you describe would make more sense = send an aircraft otherwise waiting overnight out to PHL. I did notice AA moved to the US Air gates, probably offering more room for AS at C9 and C11.

Based on AA's schedule, I believe this is how the flights will pan out:
DFW-PDX (AA1986): 6:59 PM - 9:05 PM
PDX-PHL (AA2713): 10:10 PM - 6:10 AM (+1)

PHL-PDX (AA1089): 6:40 PM - 9:50 PM
PDX-PHL (AA1956): 11:59 PM - 5:45 AM (+1)

My guess is that the PHL-PDX-DFW Airbus A321 sits at PDX for 2+ hours in order to meet a flight bank in DFW with reasonable connection times.

AS737MAX · Thu Feb 23, 2023 6:23 am

Current diversions in the air right now: (I'm sure there have been more)

ATN3321 AFW-PDX going to SEA https://fr24.com/ATN3321/2f4baeb1
ASA301 MCO-PDX going to GEG? Looks like it might be continuing on to PDX
AAL2224 DFW-PDX going to GEG https://fr24.com/AAL2224/2f4b90bc
DAL418 JFK-PDX going to SLC https://www.flightradar24.com/DAL418/2f4b77ed
UAL 2197 IAH-PDX going to SFO https://www.flightradar24.com/UAL2197/2f4b9b7e
ASA311 BOS-PDX returned to BOS while over Northern Minnesota https://www.flightradar24.com/ASA311/2f4b77ef

AC4500 · Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:23 am

Two PHX-PDX diversions:

WN1935 Returned to PHX: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA ... /KPHX/KPHX

AA2660 went to SEA: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL ... /KPHX/KSEA

pdxplanes837362 · Thu Feb 23, 2023 3:23 pm

Does anyone know why windows were not installed in the area around D15? I know this is a very minor detail but nevertheless it would be cool to see the WBs that vacate those gates. Is it related to FIS access/security?

ooslc · Thu Feb 23, 2023 6:37 pm

WN cancelled every single flight today. AA only has 1 DFW running today, rest are cancelled. AS had a lot of cancellations this morning, but don't see much in the afternoon/evening. DL and UA cancelled a few this morning, delayed a handful, but rest show on time. NK cancelled their first 2, other 2 show on time. AC mostly on time, WS cancelled.

What a mess. Freeways still look like a nightmare. Glad I don't have to go out. Portland sucks at snow removal.

ginervra · Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:13 pm

AS737MAX wrote:
Current diversions in the air right now: (I'm sure there have been more)

ATN3321 AFW-PDX going to SEA https://fr24.com/ATN3321/2f4baeb1
ASA301 MCO-PDX going to GEG? Looks like it might be continuing on to PDX
AAL2224 DFW-PDX going to GEG https://fr24.com/AAL2224/2f4b90bc
DAL418 JFK-PDX going to SLC https://www.flightradar24.com/DAL418/2f4b77ed
UAL 2197 IAH-PDX going to SFO https://www.flightradar24.com/UAL2197/2f4b9b7e
ASA311 BOS-PDX returned to BOS while over Northern Minnesota https://www.flightradar24.com/ASA311/2f4b77ef

ASA656 ABQ-PDX returned to ABQ over Price, Utah

ramprat74 · Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:01 pm

The Port of Portland has really dropped the ball the last two weather events. I feel they are so busy with the new terminal that they forget their running an airport. If it wasn’t for airlines flying in and out of this airport, there wouldn’t be an airport or new terminal. The last storm that started with snow then turned into freezing rain the Port’s snow removal team slept in and didn’t start to clear the taxiways and runways until close to noon. Last night they didn’t show up until early evening. We had a few flight push back and try to taxi to 10R and had to stop because they lost sight of the taxiway. They had to have airfield one escort them back to the gate. These flight ultimately cancelled.

flyoregon · Thu Feb 23, 2023 11:38 pm

ramprat74 wrote:
The Port of Portland has really dropped the ball the last two weather events. I feel they are so busy with the new terminal that they forget their running an airport. If it wasn’t for airlines flying in and out of this airport, there wouldn’t be an airport or new terminal. The last storm that started with snow then turned into freezing rain the Port’s snow removal team slept in and didn’t start to clear the taxiways and runways until close to noon. Last night they didn’t show up until early evening. We had a few flight push back and try to taxi to 10R and had to stop because they lost sight of the taxiway. They had to have airfield one escort them back to the gate. These flight ultimately cancelled.

Landed in from SFO last night on AS 3348, and we were advised by the captain that they were going to shoot the approach to see if we could make it in because conditions were right at minimum. Ultimately, we did make it in, but the runway was completely covered, as were the taxiways. As we sat on the taxiway waiting for a gate, I saw the line of plows on the runway after our arrival. So I don't know if they had plowed it before and the snow was just so heavy they couldn't keep up, but the Port really needs to get this stuff figured out.

Wingtips56 · Fri Feb 24, 2023 2:08 am

I'd be inclined to cut them a little slack. USA Today reports "Travel chaos ensues after Portland picks up heaviest snow since 1943". It's a big, broad regional happening. Here in Crescent City CA (we've been considered honorary Oregon because Brookings/Curry County OR is part of the airport commission), the airline flights and some of the freight feeders all canceled because of the snow....here, where it does not snow. So no snow removal equipment. ACV down coast is the same. I was supposed to fly out CEC-OAK today for my Mum's 90th birthday, but the creeping delay eventually canceled. So has tomorrow. I live a bit out of town, but can't get there because both highways 199 and 197 are closed locally; snow and downed trees. I have 4" of snow on my deck and no snow shovel.

flyoregon · Fri Feb 24, 2023 3:33 am

Wingtips56 wrote:
I'd be inclined to cut them a little slack. USA Today reports "Travel chaos ensues after Portland picks up heaviest snow since 1943". It's a big, broad regional happening. Here in Crescent City CA (we've been considered honorary Oregon because Brookings/Curry County OR is part of the airport commission), the airline flights and some of the freight feeders all canceled because of the snow....here, where it does not snow. So no snow removal equipment. ACV down coast is the same. I was supposed to fly out CEC-OAK today for my Mum's 90th birthday, but the creeping delay eventually canceled. So has tomorrow. I live a bit out of town, but can't get there because both highways 199 and 197 are closed locally; snow and downed trees. I have 4" of snow on my deck and no snow shovel.

Yes. The snow was record breaking, and forecasters got it all wrong, but the flakes started falling consistently around 10:00AM. And while forecasts didn't come close to getting it right, they did say it was possible snow would happen, which is why I believe the Port of Portland should have been a little more prepared than they seemingly were.

This snow event aside, this isn't the first time the Port has failed at being prepared for winter weather. I remember during the January 2004 winter storm, Sky8 from the NBC affiliate flew over PDX where the airport had been closed completely for 2 days. That storm dropped snow then 1" of freezing rain causing an Airborne Express DC-9 to tip backwards onto it's tail due to the heavy load from the snow and ice. Another reason for the closure was insufficient amounts of deice fluid for the runways and the airplanes.

In 2008, another historic winter storm hit Portland dropping a total of close to 20 inches of snow over 11 days cancelling 100's of flights and shutting down the entire metro area. February 2014, another big snow event hit the region with frigid temps, heavy snow, and ice. Then again in 2017 cancelling 120+ flights at PDX stranding 1,000 or so people. Now to yesterday where, according to a KGW article, 188 flights were canceled and 33 delayed as of 2:00PM on Wednesday.

The point is, it's not like this is the first time in 20 or 30 years that Portland sees significant snowfall. Sure, we don't get snow like this multiple times every winter, or even every winter like in other parts of the country, but we do get it. And in the last 20 years, there have been several major (memorable) events that have caused major disruptions to the entire city and to operations at the airport.

City and airport officials will blame forecasters, forecasters will blame weather models, and it's a vicious cycle of blaming someone else for what went wrong. In the end, the blame is simply the lack of readiness and preparedness. My entire life growing up in Portland, I would watch the news, and at the beginning of every winter when there was a threat of any sort of snow, the news stations would inevitably do a story where they go to PBOT or ODOT and show how they're preparing the trucks for the potential for snow and/or ice. Then the event doesn't happen or is too wimpy to really matter. But then after a couple of months of little to know winter weather action, it's like they stop caring, because when something does happen, even at 2 inches of snow, the seeming lack of ability to cope with it city wide is still surprising.

I'm done ranting now.

Wingtips56 · Fri Feb 24, 2023 7:14 am

Felt good, didn't it.

flyoregon · Fri Feb 24, 2023 3:40 pm

Wingtips56 wrote:
Felt good, didn't it.

You have no idea

AC4500 · Sun Feb 26, 2023 6:47 pm

AS will be down to 1x daily E175 on PDX-SLC from 6/16 - 8/14.

I understand cutting flights because of resource shortages (crew, planes, etc.), but there has to be a better way to do it than this... It's just ridiculous. In 2019, AS flew this route 3x daily, all on 737s.

wedgetail737 · Sun Feb 26, 2023 9:15 pm

AC4500 wrote:
AS will be down to 1x daily E175 on PDX-SLC from 6/16 - 8/14.

I understand cutting flights because of resource shortages (crew, planes, etc.), but there has to be a better way to do it than this... It's just ridiculous. In 2019, AS flew this route 3x daily, all on 737s.

The question is...Is AS filling the flights between SEA-SLC? If not, there's your answer. People don't buy tickets...airlines will quit flying it.

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