Zbogart757 wrote:

Happy New Year to everyone as well!

I think what we could possibly see this year by late S23 or late in the year of 2023, a better outlook what the AA A321XLR operation could look like for Summer 2024 unless anymore delays are added to the aircraft.

With the Lufthansa/Eurowings operations, I feel we’ll see Eurowings operate the route until spring 2024 then can Lufthansa bring back mainline metal and use the B789 when more deliveries come online for them.

Frontier I can see them adding routes here and there like they normally do.

To me the one that I’m interested in seeing is how the jetBlue/Spirit merger pans out and see what they do with the PHL routes.

Bigant0408 wrote:

As we called it American is resuming some routes this year

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230103-aaus

Philadelphia – Charlottesville Service resumes on 04APR23, instead of 03JAN23
Philadelphia – Daytona Beach Service resumes on 04APR23, instead of 26MAR23
Philadelphia – Hilton Head Island Service resumes on 06MAY23, instead of 01APR23
Philadelphia – Pensacola Service resumes 04APR23, instead of 26MAR23


Also somehow Eastern Airlines is still at it with trying to recruit flight attendants for there "future" PHL flight attendant base. They are having a Cabin Crew Open House on January 10th at their headquarters in Wayne, PA

https://workforcenow.adp.com/mascsr/def ... lang=en_US

PHLspecial wrote:

Bigant0408 wrote:

As we called it American is resuming some routes this year

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230103-aaus

Philadelphia – Charlottesville Service resumes on 04APR23, instead of 03JAN23
Philadelphia – Daytona Beach Service resumes on 04APR23, instead of 26MAR23
Philadelphia – Hilton Head Island Service resumes on 06MAY23, instead of 01APR23
Philadelphia – Pensacola Service resumes 04APR23, instead of 26MAR23


Also somehow Eastern Airlines is still at it with trying to recruit flight attendants for there "future" PHL flight attendant base. They are having a Cabin Crew Open House on January 10th at their headquarters in Wayne, PA

https://workforcenow.adp.com/mascsr/def ... lang=en_US

Well glad to see more restored service for AA

As for Eastern Airlines, I'm surprised they are still trying this. They need a major shift in company culture to attract workers. Maybe once they recruit enough FAs we can see what their vision is for PHL. I have my doubts of this ever happening.

Zbogart757 wrote:

From the February AA widebody schedule looks like well getting a B788 flight to CUN and MCO.

https://www.aacargo.com/downloads/sched ... le2023.pdf

Zbogart757 wrote:

From the February AA widebody schedule looks like we’ll be getting a B788 flight to CUN and MCO.

https://www.aacargo.com/downloads/sched ... le2023.pdf

3D101CA wrote:

I wonder what connecting markets feed QR at PHL. Must be a lot of passengers connecting to Pakistan/India at DOH.

Bigant0408 wrote:

3D101CA wrote:

I wonder what connecting markets feed QR at PHL. Must be a lot of passengers connecting to Pakistan/India at DOH.

At minimum, I know I've met a few passengers connecting to Detroit and Orlando.

PHLspecial wrote:

I saw Connect air doing another proving run today and saw them taxi to Terminal A. What gate would they use? I assume they need a gate that has stairs to inside the airport to the customs area since they can't use a jet bridge.

As for TLV I think AA is in cash saving mode. I think it's very possible the route relaunches in a couple of years time. I assume there would be some local o&d here but mainly filled with connecting traffic plus we would be a better connecting airport geographically. I would think some of the North Jersey people would connect down at PHL if Amtrak would serve the airport directly or if Septa actually ran the airport line every 15 minutes.

aerace wrote:

I posted this in the AA Network thread, but with AA dumping MIA and DFW, do we think there could be a possibility to see TLV return to its roots at PHL? I feel the local market can support it alongside all the connecting traffic. While DL and UA have multiple hubs and frequencies that serve TLV (in addition to El Al), AA will have their solo daily flight from JFK which we know is supported by the local market. I think this could be an opportunity for AA but would be curious others' thoughts.

Bigant0408 wrote:

aerace wrote:

I posted this in the AA Network thread, but with AA dumping MIA and DFW, do we think there could be a possibility to see TLV return to its roots at PHL? I feel the local market can support it alongside all the connecting traffic. While DL and UA have multiple hubs and frequencies that serve TLV (in addition to El Al), AA will have their solo daily flight from JFK which we know is supported by the local market. I think this could be an opportunity for AA but would be curious others' thoughts.

In the short term I don't think starting service is on their radar. The simple fact they couldn't even make Dallas and Miami work which are much larger hubs I doubt they want to risk starting service at one of their "smaller" hubs. I know when they end service years ago they claimed it was a money loser. Plus, the good old leakage to New York with the multiple flights doesn't help either. Personally, my wish list has been for El Al to start service one day.

scutfarcus wrote:

Has PHL ever had service to Asia? It must be one of the biggest markets in the US with no service. I would think a JAL connection at Tokyo would be an obvious connection opportunity, even if only for the PHL market!

Bigant0408 wrote:

scutfarcus wrote:

Has PHL ever had service to Asia? It must be one of the biggest markets in the US with no service. I would think a JAL connection at Tokyo would be an obvious connection opportunity, even if only for the PHL market!

If you want to count Doha since Qatar it's part of West Asia then sure but since I'm sure your referring to China and Japan then no PHL hasn't. The airport has been trying for years to gain service. They have been trying with JAL mainly and I know they have even reached out to Korean Air and Air China in the past.

BENFRANKLIN wrote:

Bigant0408 wrote:

scutfarcus wrote:

Has PHL ever had service to Asia? It must be one of the biggest markets in the US with no service. I would think a JAL connection at Tokyo would be an obvious connection opportunity, even if only for the PHL market!

If you want to count Doha since Qatar it's part of West Asia then sure but since I'm sure your referring to China and Japan then no PHL hasn't. The airport has been trying for years to gain service. They have been trying with JAL mainly and I know they have even reached out to Korean Air and Air China in the past.

Surprised Cathay hasn’t been involved in phl as well.

aerace wrote:

Zbogart757 wrote:

From the February AA widebody schedule looks like well getting a B788 flight to CUN and MCO.

https://www.aacargo.com/downloads/sched ... le2023.pdf

Starting to feel more and more like the A330 days. MBJ/MIA/DFW also get in on the action with a few days as well.

usairways85 wrote:

aerace wrote:

Zbogart757 wrote:

From the February AA widebody schedule looks like well getting a B788 flight to CUN and MCO.

https://www.aacargo.com/downloads/sched ... le2023.pdf

Starting to feel more and more like the A330 days. MBJ/MIA/DFW also get in on the action with a few days as well.

Most TA routes drop to less than daily (4-6 weekly)
The AACargo schedule can be inaccurate but here is the summary:
PHL-MBJ: 3x weekly 788
PHL-CUN: 7x weekly 788
PHL-LAS: 14x weekly 788
PHL-LAX: 14x weekly 788
**PHL-MCO: only runs for a week around President's Day weekend
PHL-MIA: only runs for a week around President's Day weekend
PHL-PHX: 14x weekly 788

**AA on PHL-MCO is a shell of what it was. F9/NK dump a tonnnn of capacity on it and match (or come close) frequency.

aerace wrote:

BENFRANKLIN wrote:

Bigant0408 wrote:

If you want to count Doha since Qatar it's part of West Asia then sure but since I'm sure your referring to China and Japan then no PHL hasn't. The airport has been trying for years to gain service. They have been trying with JAL mainly and I know they have even reached out to Korean Air and Air China in the past.

Surprised Cathay hasn’t been involved in phl as well.

They discontinued EWR service so maybe PHL gets a shot. Wishful thinking at this point.

Bigant0408 wrote:

Does anyone know the top unserved domestic and international routes from PHL? Been trying to search but have been having difficulty finding any info

PHLspecial wrote:

Bigant0408 wrote:

Does anyone know the top unserved domestic and international routes from PHL? Been trying to search but have been having difficulty finding any info

I would think it's something from the BTS and passenger data. The thing is I'm not sure how you classify this data set you are looking for. I don't think it's o&d numbers

3D101CA wrote:

It would be interesting to see AY and IB at PHL. They are both flying to DFW (which is a oneworld hub of AA), the addition of PHL would be neat.

Otherwise, European carriers at PHL are quite limited compared to other major cities. You only have the long standing BA/LH, and EI which only launched service several years ago. AF also flew to CDG from PHL but ended service in 2009 I believe. I guess the former US and now AA have a stronghold on the PHL-Europe market, which is why no other major airlines from Europe fly to PHL. But AY and IB would have access to domestic connections from AA at PHL.

I do think TK to IST would make sense if it launched.

scutfarcus wrote:

Has PHL ever had service to Asia? It must be one of the biggest markets in the US with no service. I would think a JAL connection at Tokyo would be an obvious connection opportunity, even if only for the PHL market!

PHLspecial wrote:

It's disappointing from the lack of international carriers. I guess it's still cheaper to fly into JFK and transfer there instead of using PHL as a transfer airport.

I think part of Philly's problem is that we are not internationally recognized like NYC, Boston, or DC. PHL also can't complete on fares, generally speaking both EWR and JFK have much cheaper fares. Also doesn't help that AA currently trying to grow other airports.

I think Bigant has mention rumors about TK before. IMO I would think EK would start service first over TK

Bigant0408 wrote:

PHLspecial wrote:

It's disappointing from the lack of international carriers. I guess it's still cheaper to fly into JFK and transfer there instead of using PHL as a transfer airport.

I think part of Philly's problem is that we are not internationally recognized like NYC, Boston, or DC. PHL also can't complete on fares, generally speaking both EWR and JFK have much cheaper fares. Also doesn't help that AA currently trying to grow other airports.

I think Bigant has mention rumors about TK before. IMO I would think EK would start service first over TK

I think another issue is that IMO Philly is more a leisure market than a business market like NYC, Boston and DC especially on the international front. Icelandair was doing good but covid messed that up and doubt they will be coming back. Aer Lingus even uses there 321LR vs the 330. I've just come to the point that internationally the airport will not see much interest from international carriers especially non-oneworld members. Domestically I think the airport is doing well but could be better in regards to more routes and competition

Yea I mentioned about the Turkish airport CEO wishlist of serving Philadelphia from any airline. But with TK already mentioning the US they intend to serve in the near future we can nip that in the bud for service. As mentioned before I think the only new airlines we are to look forward to in the near future are Connect Airlines and potentially Arajet if they stick to the route filing they requested to serve the airport. And Maybe Hawaiian Airlines after they start receiving there 787s. Eastern Airlines as well but again I'll believe it when I see it

aerace wrote:

Just when we were making major headways to build a more robust international network (especially with the CMN flight), Covid came to wipe it all away. What's wild is that the PHL metro is 9th highest in US GDP output, has one of the highest concentrations of eds + meds, and is 6th most populous, but as you said, we are eclipsed by what's above and below us. Geography is surely not our friend and that story won't ever change unless PHL somehow explodes on the international scene. With the focus on growing cargo operations and what I personally believe could be incredibly impactful on the city's future with the Bellwether District (https://www.thebellwetherdistrict.com/), maybe we get some international additions in the upcoming years. But watching the stagnancy at PHL while other airports gain new destinations, airlines, and frequencies is a major bummer as a PHL-based flyer. Here's hoping PHL's new director has more influence in elevating the airport's position.

PHLspecial wrote:

Would have PHL been better off with US Airways or is it better with American now?
I don't how accurate these maps are but we more or less have the same network today

jplatts wrote:

PHLspecial wrote:

Would have PHL been better off with US Airways or is it better with American now?
I don't how accurate these maps are but we more or less have the same network today

PHL is likely better off with the merged AA-US as AA serves some smaller regional destinations that aren't served by UA and that had AA service prior to the AA-US merger such as ABI, AEX, CLL, COU, FSM, GCK, AZO, GRK, LAW, GGG, MQT, MLU, SJT, TXK, TYR, ACT, ALO, CWA, and SPS.

FlyingSicilian wrote:

jplatts wrote:

PHL is likely better off with the merged AA-US as AA serves some smaller regional destinations that aren't served by UA and that had AA service prior to the AA-US merger such as ABI, AEX, CLL, COU, FSM, GCK, AZO, GRK, LAW, GGG, MQT, MLU, SJT, TXK, TYR, ACT, ALO, CWA, and SPS.

They do not serve PHL - Abilene or CLL or most of those...that would be DFW

jplatts wrote:

FlyingSicilian wrote:

jplatts wrote:

PHL is likely better off with the merged AA-US as AA serves some smaller regional destinations that aren't served by UA and that had AA service prior to the AA-US merger such as ABI, AEX, CLL, COU, FSM, GCK, AZO, GRK, LAW, GGG, MQT, MLU, SJT, TXK, TYR, ACT, ALO, CWA, and SPS.

They do not serve PHL - Abilene or CLL or most of those...that would be DFW

The point that I was trying to make is that PHL now has 1-stop access to smaller regional destinations that weren't served by US prior to the AA-US merger on PHL's hub airline (AA) after the AA-US merger.

AA also offers double-connections to smaller regional destinations west of the Mississippi River from smaller regional destinations in the Northeast that don't have AA nonstop service to DFW as a result of the AA-US merger.

Bigant0408 wrote:

So lets try this again. I posted few days ago about Eastern Airlines Open House for flight attendants but they had took the post down. Now they just brought back the post with new open house dates. See if this last

https://workforcenow.adp.com/mascsr/def ... &source=EN

Bigant0408 wrote:

As we called it American is resuming some routes this year

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230103-aaus

Philadelphia – Charlottesville Service resumes on 04APR23, instead of 03JAN23
Philadelphia – Daytona Beach Service resumes on 04APR23, instead of 26MAR23
Philadelphia – Hilton Head Island Service resumes on 06MAY23, instead of 01APR23
Philadelphia – Pensacola Service resumes 04APR23, instead of 26MAR23


Also somehow Eastern Airlines is still at it with trying to recruit flight attendants for there "future" PHL flight attendant base. They are having a Cabin Crew Open House on January 10th at their headquarters in Wayne, PA

https://workforcenow.adp.com/mascsr/def ... lang=en_US

aerace wrote:

I posted this in the AA Network thread, but with AA dumping MIA and DFW, do we think there could be a possibility to see TLV return to its roots at PHL? I feel the local market can support it alongside all the connecting traffic. While DL and UA have multiple hubs and frequencies that serve TLV (in addition to El Al), AA will have their solo daily flight from JFK which we know is supported by the local market. I think this could be an opportunity for AA but would be curious others' thoughts.

3D101CA wrote:

It would be interesting to see AY and IB at PHL. They are both flying to DFW (which is a oneworld hub of AA), the addition of PHL would be neat.

Otherwise, European carriers at PHL are quite limited compared to other major cities. You only have the long standing BA/LH, and EI which only launched service several years ago. AF also flew to CDG from PHL but ended service in 2009 I believe. I guess the former US and now AA have a stronghold on the PHL-Europe market, which is why no other major airlines from Europe fly to PHL. But AY and IB would have access to domestic connections from AA at PHL.

I do think TK to IST would make sense if it launched.

PHLspecial wrote:

Would have PHL been better off with US Airways or is it better with American now?
I don't how accurate these maps are but we more or less have the same network today


US AIrways Domestic route map


PHL in blue

aerace wrote:

Bigant0408 wrote:

PHLspecial wrote:

It's disappointing from the lack of international carriers. I guess it's still cheaper to fly into JFK and transfer there instead of using PHL as a transfer airport.

I think part of Philly's problem is that we are not internationally recognized like NYC, Boston, or DC. PHL also can't complete on fares, generally speaking both EWR and JFK have much cheaper fares. Also doesn't help that AA currently trying to grow other airports.

I think Bigant has mention rumors about TK before. IMO I would think EK would start service first over TK

I think another issue is that IMO Philly is more a leisure market than a business market like NYC, Boston and DC especially on the international front. Icelandair was doing good but covid messed that up and doubt they will be coming back. Aer Lingus even uses there 321LR vs the 330. I've just come to the point that internationally the airport will not see much interest from international carriers especially non-oneworld members. Domestically I think the airport is doing well but could be better in regards to more routes and competition

Yea I mentioned about the Turkish airport CEO wishlist of serving Philadelphia from any airline. But with TK already mentioning the US they intend to serve in the near future we can nip that in the bud for service. As mentioned before I think the only new airlines we are to look forward to in the near future are Connect Airlines and potentially Arajet if they stick to the route filing they requested to serve the airport. And Maybe Hawaiian Airlines after they start receiving there 787s. Eastern Airlines as well but again I'll believe it when I see it

Just when we were making major headways to build a more robust international network (especially with the CMN flight), Covid came to wipe it all away. What's wild is that the PHL metro is 9th highest in US GDP output, has one of the highest concentrations of eds + meds, and is 6th most populous, but as you said, we are eclipsed by what's above and below us. Geography is surely not our friend and that story won't ever change unless PHL somehow explodes on the international scene. With the focus on growing cargo operations and what I personally believe could be incredibly impactful on the city's future with the Bellwether District (https://www.thebellwetherdistrict.com/), maybe we get some international additions in the upcoming years. But watching the stagnancy at PHL while other airports gain new destinations, airlines, and frequencies is a major bummer as a PHL-based flyer. Here's hoping PHL's new director has more influence in elevating the airport's position.

flyjoe wrote:

[quote="jplatts"
PHL is likely better off with the merged AA-US as AA serves some smaller regional destinations that aren't served by UA and that had AA service prior to the AA-US merger such as ABI, AEX, CLL, COU, FSM, GCK, AZO, GRK, LAW, GGG, MQT, MLU, SJT, TXK, TYR, ACT, ALO, CWA, and SPS.