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Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Sun Jan 01, 2023 12:54 am

Welcome to the Philadelphia Aviation thread - 2023 edition.

Please continue to post your news and discussions below.

Link to the 2022 edition:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1468695
 
Bigant0408
Posts: 993
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Sun Jan 01, 2023 4:48 pm

Happy New Year to you all. I hope 2023 is a good year for PHL and more important everyone in this forum. Well here goes my predictions and thoughts for this new year

Aer Lingus: Nothing new as I believe the 321LR has been the perfect aircraft for this route

Air Canada: Currently they plan to fly increase flights to Toronto to 4x daily and will resume service to Montreal at 2x daily

Alaska: Besides resuming 2nd daily service during the summer I don't think they will do anything else. I personally would love for them to return to LAX,
SFO and PDX but I doubt that will happen. With them being in OneWorld one would think they could fill planes profitably especially if
connections are in play

American: Besides some route resumptions we may see just a few new route announcements but not much vs AA other hubs

British Airways: Nothing new

Contour: I know they proposed a new service under the Essential Air Service to Massena NY but I believe they lost that bid. I believe they would try to
bid on route or two

Delta: A flight to Seattle or even LAX would be great but we have been saying this for the past few years. I do wonder if they would start a route to
Miami due to the partnership with LATAM

LH/Eurowings: Hard to tell if they plan to continue as Eurowings during the Winter season at the end of this year. I am curious if LH would bring back
service on there 787

Frontier: I do predict a few new routes this year hopefully back to Austin. They will resume service to Myrtle Beach and Savannah

Qatar: Typical upgauge to 777 during the summer season.

Southwest: Hard to predict. I would say they continue there saturday or weekend only services to Dallas and Houston

Spirit: Charleston services starting this year. They do plan to resume service to Oakland. Starting service to Austin and Phoenix could be possible

Sun Country: They will be flying 5x daily this summer vs the 4x daily they have been since 2019 which is a good sign

United: Nothing new

As for any new airlines we are still waiting for official word from Connect Airlines which sound like they are getting closer. Possibly hear something from Arajet either for service this year or next year. I would like to hear Hawaiian announce service once they start receiving there 787 this year. Service probably wouldn't start til next year. Beside that It's hard to picture any foreign carriers (exluding Arajet) starting service.
 
Zbogart757
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Sun Jan 01, 2023 5:05 pm

Happy New Year to everyone as well!

I think what we could possibly see this year by late S23 or late in the year of 2023, a better outlook what the AA A321XLR operation could look like for Summer 2024 unless anymore delays are added to the aircraft.

With the Lufthansa/Eurowings operations, I feel we’ll see Eurowings operate the route until spring 2024 then can Lufthansa bring back mainline metal and use the B789 when more deliveries come online for them.

Frontier I can see them adding routes here and there like they normally do.

To me the one that I’m interested in seeing is how the jetBlue/Spirit merger pans out and see what they do with the PHL routes.
 
Bigant0408
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Sun Jan 01, 2023 7:37 pm

Zbogart757 wrote:
Happy New Year to everyone as well!

I think what we could possibly see this year by late S23 or late in the year of 2023, a better outlook what the AA A321XLR operation could look like for Summer 2024 unless anymore delays are added to the aircraft.

With the Lufthansa/Eurowings operations, I feel we’ll see Eurowings operate the route until spring 2024 then can Lufthansa bring back mainline metal and use the B789 when more deliveries come online for them.

Frontier I can see them adding routes here and there like they normally do.

To me the one that I’m interested in seeing is how the jetBlue/Spirit merger pans out and see what they do with the PHL routes.


I do agree the Jetblue/Spirit merger will be interesting indeed. Especially since Jetblue themselves is basically nonexistant with 2-3 flights daily to Boston
 
PHLspecial
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Sun Jan 01, 2023 8:49 pm

Happy New Year everyone. I hope for better growth for PHL this year and very interested to see what direction Atif Saeed takes PHL. I'm looking forward to the master plan releasing this summer.

I mostly agree with both Bigant and Zbogart predications.

Aer Lingus: Same as 2022
Air Canada: Small increase in service
Alaska: I don't see PDX being added this year, maybe next year if they have lots of max deliveries
American: I don't see any new international routes until 2025. Maybe a couple of restored international routes for 2024. Domestically I see more expansion in smaller cities like Des Moines, Huntsville, Oklahoma City.
British Airways: Same as 2022
Contour: Maybe more bids in the Mid-Atlantic Region
Delta: No change
LH/Eurowings: Only change is Eurowings flies there own A330, No LH mainline this year
Frontier: I see more growth in the Mid-West region, I'm predicting Columbus or something wild as Pittsburgh.
JetBlue: Hopefully restored service to Fort Lauderdale
Qatar: Same as 2022
Southwest: More Saturday only flights
Spirit Airlines: Probably copy a Frontier route like San Antonio and possibly new service to Jacksonville
Sun County: No Change
United: No Change

I agree that we don't see a new airline for a while. Hopefully I hope this changes
 
Bigant0408
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Tue Jan 03, 2023 2:54 pm

As we called it American is resuming some routes this year

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230103-aaus

Philadelphia – Charlottesville Service resumes on 04APR23, instead of 03JAN23
Philadelphia – Daytona Beach Service resumes on 04APR23, instead of 26MAR23
Philadelphia – Hilton Head Island Service resumes on 06MAY23, instead of 01APR23
Philadelphia – Pensacola Service resumes 04APR23, instead of 26MAR23


Also somehow Eastern Airlines is still at it with trying to recruit flight attendants for there "future" PHL flight attendant base. They are having a Cabin Crew Open House on January 10th at their headquarters in Wayne, PA

https://workforcenow.adp.com/mascsr/def ... lang=en_US
 
PHLspecial
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Tue Jan 03, 2023 3:25 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
As we called it American is resuming some routes this year

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230103-aaus

Philadelphia – Charlottesville Service resumes on 04APR23, instead of 03JAN23
Philadelphia – Daytona Beach Service resumes on 04APR23, instead of 26MAR23
Philadelphia – Hilton Head Island Service resumes on 06MAY23, instead of 01APR23
Philadelphia – Pensacola Service resumes 04APR23, instead of 26MAR23


Also somehow Eastern Airlines is still at it with trying to recruit flight attendants for there "future" PHL flight attendant base. They are having a Cabin Crew Open House on January 10th at their headquarters in Wayne, PA

https://workforcenow.adp.com/mascsr/def ... lang=en_US

Well glad to see more restored service for AA

As for Eastern Airlines, I'm surprised they are still trying this. They need a major shift in company culture to attract workers. Maybe once they recruit enough FAs we can see what their vision is for PHL. I have my doubts of this ever happening.
 
Bigant0408
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Tue Jan 03, 2023 4:27 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
As we called it American is resuming some routes this year

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230103-aaus

Philadelphia – Charlottesville Service resumes on 04APR23, instead of 03JAN23
Philadelphia – Daytona Beach Service resumes on 04APR23, instead of 26MAR23
Philadelphia – Hilton Head Island Service resumes on 06MAY23, instead of 01APR23
Philadelphia – Pensacola Service resumes 04APR23, instead of 26MAR23


Also somehow Eastern Airlines is still at it with trying to recruit flight attendants for there "future" PHL flight attendant base. They are having a Cabin Crew Open House on January 10th at their headquarters in Wayne, PA

https://workforcenow.adp.com/mascsr/def ... lang=en_US

Well glad to see more restored service for AA

As for Eastern Airlines, I'm surprised they are still trying this. They need a major shift in company culture to attract workers. Maybe once they recruit enough FAs we can see what their vision is for PHL. I have my doubts of this ever happening.


I'm surprised they are still alive honestly. If they somehow do make it I'll be curious as to where they would start service. I know they originally started Santo Domingo and also planned Mexico City, Miami and Trinidad. Obviously we shall see if anything happens
 
Zbogart757
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:42 pm

From the February AA widebody schedule looks like well getting a B788 flight to CUN and MCO.

https://www.aacargo.com/downloads/sched ... le2023.pdf
 
aerace
Posts: 310
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:08 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:50 pm

Zbogart757 wrote:
From the February AA widebody schedule looks like well getting a B788 flight to CUN and MCO.

https://www.aacargo.com/downloads/sched ... le2023.pdf

Starting to feel more and more like the A330 days. MBJ/MIA/DFW also get in on the action with a few days as well.
Last edited by aerace on Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Zbogart757
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:35 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:54 pm

Zbogart757 wrote:
From the February AA widebody schedule looks like we’ll be getting a B788 flight to CUN and MCO.

https://www.aacargo.com/downloads/sched ... le2023.pdf
 
3D101CA
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:07 pm

I wonder what connecting markets feed QR at PHL. Must be a lot of passengers connecting to Pakistan/India at DOH.
 
Bigant0408
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:18 pm

3D101CA wrote:
I wonder what connecting markets feed QR at PHL. Must be a lot of passengers connecting to Pakistan/India at DOH.


At minimum, I know I've met a few passengers connecting to Detroit and Orlando.
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 1323
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:38 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
3D101CA wrote:
I wonder what connecting markets feed QR at PHL. Must be a lot of passengers connecting to Pakistan/India at DOH.


At minimum, I know I've met a few passengers connecting to Detroit and Orlando.

I wish I can connect to Vietnam but the layover is like 8 hours. Also I think the O&D at PHL is pretty sizeable for Pakistan/India. In Philly India was the largest growing population in the last 10 years
 
aerace
Posts: 310
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:08 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:45 pm

I posted this in the AA Network thread, but with AA dumping MIA and DFW, do we think there could be a possibility to see TLV return to its roots at PHL? I feel the local market can support it alongside all the connecting traffic. While DL and UA have multiple hubs and frequencies that serve TLV (in addition to El Al), AA will have their solo daily flight from JFK which we know is supported by the local market. I think this could be an opportunity for AA but would be curious others' thoughts.
 
PHLspecial
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Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:50 pm

I saw Connect air doing another proving run today and saw them taxi to Terminal A. What gate would they use? I assume they need a gate that has stairs to inside the airport to the customs area since they can't use a jet bridge.

As for TLV I think AA is in cash saving mode. I think it's very possible the route relaunches in a couple of years time. I assume there would be some local o&d here but mainly filled with connecting traffic plus we would be a better connecting airport geographically. I would think some of the North Jersey people would connect down at PHL if Amtrak would serve the airport directly or if Septa actually ran the airport line every 15 minutes.
 
Bigant0408
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:32 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
I saw Connect air doing another proving run today and saw them taxi to Terminal A. What gate would they use? I assume they need a gate that has stairs to inside the airport to the customs area since they can't use a jet bridge.

As for TLV I think AA is in cash saving mode. I think it's very possible the route relaunches in a couple of years time. I assume there would be some local o&d here but mainly filled with connecting traffic plus we would be a better connecting airport geographically. I would think some of the North Jersey people would connect down at PHL if Amtrak would serve the airport directly or if Septa actually ran the airport line every 15 minutes.


I believe they will be using gate A2. The aircraft can used use the jet bridge I believe they would just have a ramp to use between the plane and the bridge. I've seen it on video at Newark for Porter flights. And with there intent to expand service my best guess they could also use A4.
 
Bigant0408
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Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:38 pm

aerace wrote:
I posted this in the AA Network thread, but with AA dumping MIA and DFW, do we think there could be a possibility to see TLV return to its roots at PHL? I feel the local market can support it alongside all the connecting traffic. While DL and UA have multiple hubs and frequencies that serve TLV (in addition to El Al), AA will have their solo daily flight from JFK which we know is supported by the local market. I think this could be an opportunity for AA but would be curious others' thoughts.


In the short term I don't think starting service is on their radar. The simple fact they couldn't even make Dallas and Miami work which are much larger hubs I doubt they want to risk starting service at one of their "smaller" hubs. I know when they end service years ago they claimed it was a money loser. Plus, the good old leakage to New York with the multiple flights doesn't help either. Personally, my wish list has been for El Al to start service one day.
 
BENFRANKLIN
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Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:34 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:41 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
aerace wrote:
I posted this in the AA Network thread, but with AA dumping MIA and DFW, do we think there could be a possibility to see TLV return to its roots at PHL? I feel the local market can support it alongside all the connecting traffic. While DL and UA have multiple hubs and frequencies that serve TLV (in addition to El Al), AA will have their solo daily flight from JFK which we know is supported by the local market. I think this could be an opportunity for AA but would be curious others' thoughts.


In the short term I don't think starting service is on their radar. The simple fact they couldn't even make Dallas and Miami work which are much larger hubs I doubt they want to risk starting service at one of their "smaller" hubs. I know when they end service years ago they claimed it was a money loser. Plus, the good old leakage to New York with the multiple flights doesn't help either. Personally, my wish list has been for El Al to start service one day.


Would love for El Al to start service at phl one day. I think they have approx. 16 787-9 series on order so who knows. Not getting my hopes up with phl however. Seems like it’s a stagnant Airport for new carriers. In reference to returning transcontinental service .. I can see Dubrovnik as a definite. Load factors were 86% which is solid and opens deeper connections in Europe.
 
scutfarcus
Posts: 386
Joined: Fri May 12, 2000 3:03 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Sun Jan 08, 2023 4:45 pm

Has PHL ever had service to Asia? It must be one of the biggest markets in the US with no service. I would think a JAL connection at Tokyo would be an obvious connection opportunity, even if only for the PHL market!
 
Bigant0408
Posts: 993
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Mon Jan 09, 2023 2:25 pm

scutfarcus wrote:
Has PHL ever had service to Asia? It must be one of the biggest markets in the US with no service. I would think a JAL connection at Tokyo would be an obvious connection opportunity, even if only for the PHL market!


If you want to count Doha since Qatar it's part of West Asia then sure but since I'm sure your referring to China and Japan then no PHL hasn't. The airport has been trying for years to gain service. They have been trying with JAL mainly and I know they have even reached out to Korean Air and Air China in the past.
 
BENFRANKLIN
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:34 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Mon Jan 09, 2023 3:05 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
scutfarcus wrote:
Has PHL ever had service to Asia? It must be one of the biggest markets in the US with no service. I would think a JAL connection at Tokyo would be an obvious connection opportunity, even if only for the PHL market!


If you want to count Doha since Qatar it's part of West Asia then sure but since I'm sure your referring to China and Japan then no PHL hasn't. The airport has been trying for years to gain service. They have been trying with JAL mainly and I know they have even reached out to Korean Air and Air China in the past.

Surprised Cathay hasn’t been involved in phl as well.
 
aerace
Posts: 310
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:08 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Mon Jan 09, 2023 3:16 pm

BENFRANKLIN wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
scutfarcus wrote:
Has PHL ever had service to Asia? It must be one of the biggest markets in the US with no service. I would think a JAL connection at Tokyo would be an obvious connection opportunity, even if only for the PHL market!


If you want to count Doha since Qatar it's part of West Asia then sure but since I'm sure your referring to China and Japan then no PHL hasn't. The airport has been trying for years to gain service. They have been trying with JAL mainly and I know they have even reached out to Korean Air and Air China in the past.

Surprised Cathay hasn’t been involved in phl as well.

They discontinued EWR service so maybe PHL gets a shot. Wishful thinking at this point.
 
usairways85
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Mon Jan 09, 2023 4:23 pm

aerace wrote:
Zbogart757 wrote:
From the February AA widebody schedule looks like well getting a B788 flight to CUN and MCO.

https://www.aacargo.com/downloads/sched ... le2023.pdf

Starting to feel more and more like the A330 days. MBJ/MIA/DFW also get in on the action with a few days as well.

Most TA routes drop to less than daily (4-6 weekly)
The AACargo schedule can be inaccurate but here is the summary:
PHL-MBJ: 3x weekly 788
PHL-CUN: 7x weekly 788
PHL-LAS: 14x weekly 788
PHL-LAX: 14x weekly 788
**PHL-MCO: only runs for a week around President's Day weekend
PHL-MIA: only runs for a week around President's Day weekend
PHL-PHX: 14x weekly 788

**AA on PHL-MCO is a shell of what it was. F9/NK dump a tonnnn of capacity on it and match (or come close) frequency.
 
aerace
Posts: 310
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:08 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Mon Jan 09, 2023 4:39 pm

usairways85 wrote:
aerace wrote:
Zbogart757 wrote:
From the February AA widebody schedule looks like well getting a B788 flight to CUN and MCO.

https://www.aacargo.com/downloads/sched ... le2023.pdf

Starting to feel more and more like the A330 days. MBJ/MIA/DFW also get in on the action with a few days as well.

Most TA routes drop to less than daily (4-6 weekly)
The AACargo schedule can be inaccurate but here is the summary:
PHL-MBJ: 3x weekly 788
PHL-CUN: 7x weekly 788
PHL-LAS: 14x weekly 788
PHL-LAX: 14x weekly 788
**PHL-MCO: only runs for a week around President's Day weekend
PHL-MIA: only runs for a week around President's Day weekend
PHL-PHX: 14x weekly 788

**AA on PHL-MCO is a shell of what it was. F9/NK dump a tonnnn of capacity on it and match (or come close) frequency.

PHL-LAX is actually running 21x weekly on a 788. Don't think we have ever seen that before.
PHL-DFW 7x weekly trickles in from Jan and ends 2/2 as well.

I really can't believe that F9 is matching head-to-head on 42x weekly with AA. Just goes to show you that in a heavily leisure-oriented market, ULCCs can make a serious play. Also kinda surprised SJU didn't get a WB since 772 is running from CLT.
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 1323
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Mon Jan 09, 2023 4:41 pm

aerace wrote:
BENFRANKLIN wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:

If you want to count Doha since Qatar it's part of West Asia then sure but since I'm sure your referring to China and Japan then no PHL hasn't. The airport has been trying for years to gain service. They have been trying with JAL mainly and I know they have even reached out to Korean Air and Air China in the past.

Surprised Cathay hasn’t been involved in phl as well.

They discontinued EWR service so maybe PHL gets a shot. Wishful thinking at this point.

Well there are some new Asian airlines like Starlux from Taiwan and Bamboo from Vietnam that are neutral if they ever wanted to expand to USA. Wishful thinking that a Taiwan based carrier like China airlines or Eva Air would start service here too.
 
Bigant0408
Posts: 993
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Fri Jan 13, 2023 6:26 pm

Does anyone know the top unserved domestic and international routes from PHL? Been trying to search but have been having difficulty finding any info
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 1323
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Fri Jan 13, 2023 11:45 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
Does anyone know the top unserved domestic and international routes from PHL? Been trying to search but have been having difficulty finding any info

I would think it's something from the BTS and passenger data. The thing is I'm not sure how you classify this data set you are looking for. I don't think it's o&d numbers
 
3D101CA
Posts: 241
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2022 1:50 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Sat Jan 14, 2023 1:25 am

It would be interesting to see AY and IB at PHL. They are both flying to DFW (which is a oneworld hub of AA), the addition of PHL would be neat.

Otherwise, European carriers at PHL are quite limited compared to other major cities. You only have the long standing BA/LH, and EI which only launched service several years ago. AF also flew to CDG from PHL but ended service in 2009 I believe. I guess the former US and now AA have a stronghold on the PHL-Europe market, which is why no other major airlines from Europe fly to PHL. But AY and IB would have access to domestic connections from AA at PHL.

I do think TK to IST would make sense if it launched.
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 1323
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:32 am

It's disappointing from the lack of international carriers. I guess it's still cheaper to fly into JFK and transfer there instead of using PHL as a transfer airport.

I think part of Philly's problem is that we are not internationally recognized like NYC, Boston, or DC. PHL also can't complete on fares, generally speaking both EWR and JFK have much cheaper fares. Also doesn't help that AA currently trying to grow other airports.

I think Bigant has mention rumors about TK before. IMO I would think EK would start service first over TK
 
Bigant0408
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Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Sat Jan 14, 2023 3:22 am

PHLspecial wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
Does anyone know the top unserved domestic and international routes from PHL? Been trying to search but have been having difficulty finding any info

I would think it's something from the BTS and passenger data. The thing is I'm not sure how you classify this data set you are looking for. I don't think it's o&d numbers


Got ya. I mean I found so articles about it referring to PDEW but the last post was from 2019 but that was just for top underserve routes in US in which PHL fell under that for 3 routes. Hopefully I can find something overall as I'm just curious
 
Bigant0408
Posts: 993
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Sat Jan 14, 2023 3:29 am

3D101CA wrote:
It would be interesting to see AY and IB at PHL. They are both flying to DFW (which is a oneworld hub of AA), the addition of PHL would be neat.

Otherwise, European carriers at PHL are quite limited compared to other major cities. You only have the long standing BA/LH, and EI which only launched service several years ago. AF also flew to CDG from PHL but ended service in 2009 I believe. I guess the former US and now AA have a stronghold on the PHL-Europe market, which is why no other major airlines from Europe fly to PHL. But AY and IB would have access to domestic connections from AA at PHL.

I do think TK to IST would make sense if it launched.


In general I do agree it would be cool to see both carriers serve the airport and right now it is nice to see Finnair aircraft at the airport granted it's under the wet lease from Eurowings Discover. IMO opinion though I don't see AY coming to PHL. I think there's other bigger markets in the US they can fly too unfortunately. I actually can see IB coming to the airport once they start receiving there 321XLRs.
 
crownvic
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Sat Jan 14, 2023 3:32 am

scutfarcus wrote:
Has PHL ever had service to Asia? It must be one of the biggest markets in the US with no service. I would think a JAL connection at Tokyo would be an obvious connection opportunity, even if only for the PHL market!


No, never. However, USAirways did announce PHL- NRT at some point and were planning to lease A340s or A350s (IIRC) to operate the route, but it never materialized as the AA merger precluded it from happening.
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 1323
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Sat Jan 14, 2023 3:39 am

Would have PHL been better off with US Airways or is it better with American now?
I don't how accurate these maps are but we more or less have the same network today

Image
US AIrways Domestic route map

Image
PHL in blue
Last edited by PHLspecial on Sat Jan 14, 2023 3:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Bigant0408
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Sat Jan 14, 2023 3:45 am

PHLspecial wrote:
It's disappointing from the lack of international carriers. I guess it's still cheaper to fly into JFK and transfer there instead of using PHL as a transfer airport.

I think part of Philly's problem is that we are not internationally recognized like NYC, Boston, or DC. PHL also can't complete on fares, generally speaking both EWR and JFK have much cheaper fares. Also doesn't help that AA currently trying to grow other airports.

I think Bigant has mention rumors about TK before. IMO I would think EK would start service first over TK


I think another issue is that IMO Philly is more a leisure market than a business market like NYC, Boston and DC especially on the international front. Icelandair was doing good but covid messed that up and doubt they will be coming back. Aer Lingus even uses there 321LR vs the 330. I've just come to the point that internationally the airport will not see much interest from international carriers especially non-oneworld members. Domestically I think the airport is doing well but could be better in regards to more routes and competition

Yea I mentioned about the Turkish airport CEO wishlist of serving Philadelphia from any airline. But with TK already mentioning the US they intend to serve in the near future we can nip that in the bud for service. As mentioned before I think the only new airlines we are to look forward to in the near future are Connect Airlines and potentially Arajet if they stick to the route filing they requested to serve the airport. And Maybe Hawaiian Airlines after they start receiving there 787s. Eastern Airlines as well but again I'll believe it when I see it
 
aerace
Posts: 310
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:08 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Sat Jan 14, 2023 1:56 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
It's disappointing from the lack of international carriers. I guess it's still cheaper to fly into JFK and transfer there instead of using PHL as a transfer airport.

I think part of Philly's problem is that we are not internationally recognized like NYC, Boston, or DC. PHL also can't complete on fares, generally speaking both EWR and JFK have much cheaper fares. Also doesn't help that AA currently trying to grow other airports.

I think Bigant has mention rumors about TK before. IMO I would think EK would start service first over TK


I think another issue is that IMO Philly is more a leisure market than a business market like NYC, Boston and DC especially on the international front. Icelandair was doing good but covid messed that up and doubt they will be coming back. Aer Lingus even uses there 321LR vs the 330. I've just come to the point that internationally the airport will not see much interest from international carriers especially non-oneworld members. Domestically I think the airport is doing well but could be better in regards to more routes and competition

Yea I mentioned about the Turkish airport CEO wishlist of serving Philadelphia from any airline. But with TK already mentioning the US they intend to serve in the near future we can nip that in the bud for service. As mentioned before I think the only new airlines we are to look forward to in the near future are Connect Airlines and potentially Arajet if they stick to the route filing they requested to serve the airport. And Maybe Hawaiian Airlines after they start receiving there 787s. Eastern Airlines as well but again I'll believe it when I see it

Just when we were making major headways to build a more robust international network (especially with the CMN flight), Covid came to wipe it all away. What's wild is that the PHL metro is 9th highest in US GDP output, has one of the highest concentrations of eds + meds, and is 6th most populous, but as you said, we are eclipsed by what's above and below us. Geography is surely not our friend and that story won't ever change unless PHL somehow explodes on the international scene. With the focus on growing cargo operations and what I personally believe could be incredibly impactful on the city's future with the Bellwether District (https://www.thebellwetherdistrict.com/), maybe we get some international additions in the upcoming years. But watching the stagnancy at PHL while other airports gain new destinations, airlines, and frequencies is a major bummer as a PHL-based flyer. Here's hoping PHL's new director has more influence in elevating the airport's position.
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 1323
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Sat Jan 14, 2023 3:38 pm

aerace wrote:
Just when we were making major headways to build a more robust international network (especially with the CMN flight), Covid came to wipe it all away. What's wild is that the PHL metro is 9th highest in US GDP output, has one of the highest concentrations of eds + meds, and is 6th most populous, but as you said, we are eclipsed by what's above and below us. Geography is surely not our friend and that story won't ever change unless PHL somehow explodes on the international scene. With the focus on growing cargo operations and what I personally believe could be incredibly impactful on the city's future with the Bellwether District (https://www.thebellwetherdistrict.com/), maybe we get some international additions in the upcoming years. But watching the stagnancy at PHL while other airports gain new destinations, airlines, and frequencies is a major bummer as a PHL-based flyer. Here's hoping PHL's new director has more influence in elevating the airport's position.

We have international backers in the bio-meds industry and more software jobs moving to Philly very slowly. The reason I say this is because Philly see very slow growth compared to the cities I have mention. The whole Philly region needs to develop more housing/offices especially around rail stations. I believe this how the region would grow and make the Airport more useful. I am a PHL based flyer too and I want better service too.

I too believe focusing on Air Cargo would benefit both the Airport and the PhilaPort. PhilaPort in turn is helping boost PHL airport currently with shipping services to Asia.
The Bellweather District is an upgrade over a refinery. I do agree that this will help both PHL and the shipping port for logistics. I'm excited to see how much more cargo we can ship once the bellweather district is constructed.
 
Bigant0408
Posts: 993
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Wed Jan 18, 2023 4:47 pm

So lets try this again. I posted few days ago about Eastern Airlines Open House for flight attendants but they had took the post down. Now they just brought back the post with new open house dates. See if this last

https://workforcenow.adp.com/mascsr/def ... &source=EN
 
jplatts
Posts: 6369
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:35 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
Would have PHL been better off with US Airways or is it better with American now?
I don't how accurate these maps are but we more or less have the same network today


PHL is likely better off with the merged AA-US as AA serves some smaller regional destinations that aren't served by UA and that had AA service prior to the AA-US merger such as ABI, AEX, CLL, COU, FSM, GCK, AZO, GRK, LAW, GGG, MQT, MLU, SJT, TXK, TYR, ACT, ALO, CWA, and SPS.
 
FlyingSicilian
Posts: 1972
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:53 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Wed Jan 18, 2023 10:59 pm

jplatts wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
Would have PHL been better off with US Airways or is it better with American now?
I don't how accurate these maps are but we more or less have the same network today


PHL is likely better off with the merged AA-US as AA serves some smaller regional destinations that aren't served by UA and that had AA service prior to the AA-US merger such as ABI, AEX, CLL, COU, FSM, GCK, AZO, GRK, LAW, GGG, MQT, MLU, SJT, TXK, TYR, ACT, ALO, CWA, and SPS.


They do not serve PHL - Abilene or CLL or most of those...that would be DFW
 
jplatts
Posts: 6369
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:17 pm

FlyingSicilian wrote:
jplatts wrote:
PHL is likely better off with the merged AA-US as AA serves some smaller regional destinations that aren't served by UA and that had AA service prior to the AA-US merger such as ABI, AEX, CLL, COU, FSM, GCK, AZO, GRK, LAW, GGG, MQT, MLU, SJT, TXK, TYR, ACT, ALO, CWA, and SPS.


They do not serve PHL - Abilene or CLL or most of those...that would be DFW


The point that I was trying to make is that PHL now has 1-stop access to smaller regional destinations that weren't served by US prior to the AA-US merger on PHL's hub airline (AA) after the AA-US merger.

AA also offers double-connections to smaller regional destinations west of the Mississippi River from smaller regional destinations in the Northeast that don't have AA nonstop service to DFW as a result of the AA-US merger.
 
FlyingSicilian
Posts: 1972
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:53 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:45 pm

jplatts wrote:
FlyingSicilian wrote:
jplatts wrote:
PHL is likely better off with the merged AA-US as AA serves some smaller regional destinations that aren't served by UA and that had AA service prior to the AA-US merger such as ABI, AEX, CLL, COU, FSM, GCK, AZO, GRK, LAW, GGG, MQT, MLU, SJT, TXK, TYR, ACT, ALO, CWA, and SPS.


They do not serve PHL - Abilene or CLL or most of those...that would be DFW


The point that I was trying to make is that PHL now has 1-stop access to smaller regional destinations that weren't served by US prior to the AA-US merger on PHL's hub airline (AA) after the AA-US merger.

AA also offers double-connections to smaller regional destinations west of the Mississippi River from smaller regional destinations in the Northeast that don't have AA nonstop service to DFW as a result of the AA-US merger.
fair enough thanks for expounding
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 1323
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:21 am

Bigant0408 wrote:
So lets try this again. I posted few days ago about Eastern Airlines Open House for flight attendants but they had took the post down. Now they just brought back the post with new open house dates. See if this last

https://workforcenow.adp.com/mascsr/def ... &source=EN

Maybe if they hosted the job fair inside the city they would get more opportunity for people to access this job fair. I hope they can fill those open positions.
 
Ericresnick
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2023 2:08 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Thu Jan 19, 2023 2:46 am

Bigant0408 wrote:
As we called it American is resuming some routes this year

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230103-aaus

Philadelphia – Charlottesville Service resumes on 04APR23, instead of 03JAN23
Philadelphia – Daytona Beach Service resumes on 04APR23, instead of 26MAR23
Philadelphia – Hilton Head Island Service resumes on 06MAY23, instead of 01APR23
Philadelphia – Pensacola Service resumes 04APR23, instead of 26MAR23


Also somehow Eastern Airlines is still at it with trying to recruit flight attendants for there "future" PHL flight attendant base. They are having a Cabin Crew Open House on January 10th at their headquarters in Wayne, PA

https://workforcenow.adp.com/mascsr/def ... lang=en_US


I also saw Traverse City is back
 
Ericresnick
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2023 2:08 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Thu Jan 19, 2023 2:55 am

aerace wrote:
I posted this in the AA Network thread, but with AA dumping MIA and DFW, do we think there could be a possibility to see TLV return to its roots at PHL? I feel the local market can support it alongside all the connecting traffic. While DL and UA have multiple hubs and frequencies that serve TLV (in addition to El Al), AA will have their solo daily flight from JFK which we know is supported by the local market. I think this could be an opportunity for AA but would be curious others' thoughts.


USAirways operated the route over a decade and when AA took it over they said it was losing $20M per year. With lots of seats filled and loads of cargo they were shipping as well a loss of that size didn’t feel right. AA is sticking with JFK where there is a large Jewish population. Philadelphians going that route are used to NYC. I’d be willing to bet you could fill 3 or 4 planes per week of just Phila area passengers in NYC. El Al also has a loyal following.
 
Ericresnick
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2023 2:08 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Thu Jan 19, 2023 2:59 am

3D101CA wrote:
It would be interesting to see AY and IB at PHL. They are both flying to DFW (which is a oneworld hub of AA), the addition of PHL would be neat.

Otherwise, European carriers at PHL are quite limited compared to other major cities. You only have the long standing BA/LH, and EI which only launched service several years ago. AF also flew to CDG from PHL but ended service in 2009 I believe. I guess the former US and now AA have a stronghold on the PHL-Europe market, which is why no other major airlines from Europe fly to PHL. But AY and IB would have access to domestic connections from AA at PHL.

I do think TK to IST would make sense if it launched.


PHL has always been a 3 European carrier market. Went to 4 before Covid. Would be nice to get Icelandic back. Also adding Qatar cut into BA and LH’a business.
 
Ericresnick
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2023 2:08 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Thu Jan 19, 2023 3:08 am

PHLspecial wrote:
Would have PHL been better off with US Airways or is it better with American now?
I don't how accurate these maps are but we more or less have the same network today

Image
US AIrways Domestic route map

Image
PHL in blue


Internationally PHL has been hurt by AA. Carribbean it’s about the same but in Europe, PHL lost longtime routes. Munich, Shannon, Glasgow or EDI, MAN, FRA, TLV. The upside is PHL is getting better planes to fly existing routes, but I suspect the operation isn’t as profitable when USAirways focused on its only Transatlantic hub. Maybe with new deliveries and returning flyers, things will get better. AA is bigger and isn’t investing here.

Domestically it seems to be a push, especially once the shorter routes come back. In fact AA experimented with largest routes that were once unserved at the time, such as Omaha, OKC, Des Moines.
 
flyjoe
Posts: 229
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 1:10 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Thu Jan 19, 2023 3:13 am

[quote="jplatts"
PHL is likely better off with the merged AA-US as AA serves some smaller regional destinations that aren't served by UA and that had AA service prior to the AA-US merger such as ABI, AEX, CLL, COU, FSM, GCK, AZO, GRK, LAW, GGG, MQT, MLU, SJT, TXK, TYR, ACT, ALO, CWA, and SPS.[/quote]


I would say PHL was better off under US than AA with your examples. I’m sure PHL travelers, the airport and businesses would rather have back the international destinations in Europe, Caribbean, and elsewhere in the country that’s been lost, than gaining one stop access to Longview, Killeen, Tyler and a bunch of other small towns that have minimal to no PDEW.
 
Ericresnick
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2023 2:08 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Thu Jan 19, 2023 3:16 am

aerace wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
It's disappointing from the lack of international carriers. I guess it's still cheaper to fly into JFK and transfer there instead of using PHL as a transfer airport.

I think part of Philly's problem is that we are not internationally recognized like NYC, Boston, or DC. PHL also can't complete on fares, generally speaking both EWR and JFK have much cheaper fares. Also doesn't help that AA currently trying to grow other airports.

I think Bigant has mention rumors about TK before. IMO I would think EK would start service first over TK


I think another issue is that IMO Philly is more a leisure market than a business market like NYC, Boston and DC especially on the international front. Icelandair was doing good but covid messed that up and doubt they will be coming back. Aer Lingus even uses there 321LR vs the 330. I've just come to the point that internationally the airport will not see much interest from international carriers especially non-oneworld members. Domestically I think the airport is doing well but could be better in regards to more routes and competition

Yea I mentioned about the Turkish airport CEO wishlist of serving Philadelphia from any airline. But with TK already mentioning the US they intend to serve in the near future we can nip that in the bud for service. As mentioned before I think the only new airlines we are to look forward to in the near future are Connect Airlines and potentially Arajet if they stick to the route filing they requested to serve the airport. And Maybe Hawaiian Airlines after they start receiving there 787s. Eastern Airlines as well but again I'll believe it when I see it

Just when we were making major headways to build a more robust international network (especially with the CMN flight), Covid came to wipe it all away. What's wild is that the PHL metro is 9th highest in US GDP output, has one of the highest concentrations of eds + meds, and is 6th most populous, but as you said, we are eclipsed by what's above and below us. Geography is surely not our friend and that story won't ever change unless PHL somehow explodes on the international scene. With the focus on growing cargo operations and what I personally believe could be incredibly impactful on the city's future with the Bellwether District (https://www.thebellwetherdistrict.com/), maybe we get some international additions in the upcoming years. But watching the stagnancy at PHL while other airports gain new destinations, airlines, and frequencies is a major bummer as a PHL-based flyer. Here's hoping PHL's new director has more influence in elevating the airport's position.


PHL relies on leisure and connections for overseas. It has a lot of originating as well. PHL used to support two dozen daily Transatlantic flights in summer and now it’s down to half that. I think the traffic and connection opportunities are there, but PHL hemorrhages traffic to EWR and NYC due to price and schedule. To me shlepping up there isn’t worth it but when I see lack of options to Europe these days it’s tempting. Anecdotally Phila area intl flyers seem to use NYC 1/3 to half the time since Covid. Just my small sample size observation. I don’t see anyone use Dulles as it’s just too far. But yeah, we are cursed by location.
 
crownvic
Posts: 3134
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation - 2023

Thu Jan 19, 2023 4:49 am

flyjoe wrote:
[quote="jplatts"
PHL is likely better off with the merged AA-US as AA serves some smaller regional destinations that aren't served by UA and that had AA service prior to the AA-US merger such as ABI, AEX, CLL, COU, FSM, GCK, AZO, GRK, LAW, GGG, MQT, MLU, SJT, TXK, TYR, ACT, ALO, CWA, and SPS.



I would say PHL was better off under US than AA with your examples. I’m sure PHL travelers, the airport and businesses would rather have back the international destinations in Europe, Caribbean, and elsewhere in the country that’s been lost, than gaining one stop access to Longview, Killeen, Tyler and a bunch of other small towns that have minimal to no PDEW.[/quote]

Hands down, PHL was FAR better off with US for so many reasons. To start, their operating costs were lower than American's and PHL was their flagship international city and was adding new international destinations every year. PHL was US's big fish in a small pond. Now PHL is a small fish in AA's big pond and is always competing with AA's other hubs and frequently loses out. There was also a lot more feed in the old US days which could fill up these overseas PHL flights that O&D could not. Honestly, I could go on and on as to why US was better for PHL than AA has been. The key point is, US was focused on PHL, while for AA, it just serves a purpose.

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