Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
PHLCVGAMTK wrote:Ericresnick wrote:PHLspecial wrote:Having FinnAir be at PHL would give us more connections to the Nordic and Scandinavian region which I think is a nice part of Europe. But the Philadelphia metro area is has a tiny population of Nordics and Scandinavians sadly. If we built more business connections with them that would certainly justify flights or again possibly cargo heavy flights.
If AA is going to continue to run a lighter schedule at PHL they are going need to do a better job scheduling flights to make the TATL banks then.
I was in HEL a few years ago and the airport had madly grown. It was mostly Far East traffic. Not sure those routes are as viable with Russia not allowing overhead traffic. At least it adds more time where it wouldn’t make sense to connect there. No flights to Russia either. Right now HEL is a dead end from a connection standpoint.
For now, all AY has as a business strategy is 1) to salvage what they can of their vaunted Asian network, and 2) to become a cheaper, more frequent, more efficient gateway between North America and the Nordic/Baltic/Visegrad space, in preference to BA at LHR which has extremely limited service to that part of Europe. Plugging into as many AA hubs as they can, including PHL, would play well in that strategy. Significantly for those European connections, HEL is two hours' time zone difference ahead of LHR (and an hour extra flight time), so while it's "a backtrack", a flyer from PHL can be through customs at HEL and on their connecting flight to Krakow or Vilnius before the curfew has lifted at LHR. Such an early-timed flight would also run earlier than the worst of USCBP rush hour going westbound, as well.
The case for a PHL-HEL flight as "the early plane to Europe" is solid, but it requires creativity from an airline in crisis, and from a joint venture not known for such.
Bigant0408 wrote:PHLCVGAMTK wrote:Ericresnick wrote:
I was in HEL a few years ago and the airport had madly grown. It was mostly Far East traffic. Not sure those routes are as viable with Russia not allowing overhead traffic. At least it adds more time where it wouldn’t make sense to connect there. No flights to Russia either. Right now HEL is a dead end from a connection standpoint.
For now, all AY has as a business strategy is 1) to salvage what they can of their vaunted Asian network, and 2) to become a cheaper, more frequent, more efficient gateway between North America and the Nordic/Baltic/Visegrad space, in preference to BA at LHR which has extremely limited service to that part of Europe. Plugging into as many AA hubs as they can, including PHL, would play well in that strategy. Significantly for those European connections, HEL is two hours' time zone difference ahead of LHR (and an hour extra flight time), so while it's "a backtrack", a flyer from PHL can be through customs at HEL and on their connecting flight to Krakow or Vilnius before the curfew has lifted at LHR. Such an early-timed flight would also run earlier than the worst of USCBP rush hour going westbound, as well.
The case for a PHL-HEL flight as "the early plane to Europe" is solid, but it requires creativity from an airline in crisis, and from a joint venture not known for such.
Great breakdown on AY strategy. I'm probably reaching on this but I wonder when Eurowings Discover was wet leasing AY's aircraft and using AY cabin crew for the FRA flight to PHL if this could have helped AY analyzed PHL for possible service in the future.
PHLspecial wrote:Bigant0408 wrote:PHLCVGAMTK wrote:
For now, all AY has as a business strategy is 1) to salvage what they can of their vaunted Asian network, and 2) to become a cheaper, more frequent, more efficient gateway between North America and the Nordic/Baltic/Visegrad space, in preference to BA at LHR which has extremely limited service to that part of Europe. Plugging into as many AA hubs as they can, including PHL, would play well in that strategy. Significantly for those European connections, HEL is two hours' time zone difference ahead of LHR (and an hour extra flight time), so while it's "a backtrack", a flyer from PHL can be through customs at HEL and on their connecting flight to Krakow or Vilnius before the curfew has lifted at LHR. Such an early-timed flight would also run earlier than the worst of USCBP rush hour going westbound, as well.
The case for a PHL-HEL flight as "the early plane to Europe" is solid, but it requires creativity from an airline in crisis, and from a joint venture not known for such.
Great breakdown on AY strategy. I'm probably reaching on this but I wonder when Eurowings Discover was wet leasing AY's aircraft and using AY cabin crew for the FRA flight to PHL if this could have helped AY analyzed PHL for possible service in the future.
I wonder if AA would try this in the future with the 321XLR? Or if AY would be interested in trying the A321XLRs as well or even A330 if we are lucky
PHLspecial wrote:Looks like a German government A340 is sitting at PHL, Anyone know why?
Got this image from Twitter
crownvic wrote:PHLspecial wrote:Looks like a German government A340 is sitting at PHL, Anyone know why?
Got this image from Twitter
They are picking up the Statue of Liberty to give it back to Macron, but couldn't get a landing slot at EWR
PHLspecial wrote:crownvic wrote:PHLspecial wrote:Looks like a German government A340 is sitting at PHL, Anyone know why?
They are picking up the Statue of Liberty to give it back to Macron, but couldn't get a landing slot at EWR
Ha, good one.
On a serious note, I have a theory that it was negations about a LNG terminal at PhilaPort. Germans need natural gas and PA is looking to export.
PHLCVGAMTK wrote:PHLspecial wrote:crownvic wrote:
They are picking up the Statue of Liberty to give it back to Macron, but couldn't get a landing slot at EWR
Ha, good one.
On a serious note, I have a theory that it was negations about a LNG terminal at PhilaPort. Germans need natural gas and PA is looking to export.
Twitter folks picked up that it was probably a cheap parking issue; GAF2 flew first to IAD, then shuttled up to PHL after a short time on the ground in Washington.
I'm a little surprised that PHL would be that much cheaper than whatever far corner of Dulles as to be worth the extra fuel to fly here, but stranger things have happened. And presumably the reason it came here as opposed to somewhere even cheaper like ABE or ACY, was to let LH's ground team handle the aircraft on behalf of the Luftwaffe.
PHLspecial wrote:PHLCVGAMTK wrote:PHLspecial wrote:Ha, good one.
On a serious note, I have a theory that it was negations about a LNG terminal at PhilaPort. Germans need natural gas and PA is looking to export.
Twitter folks picked up that it was probably a cheap parking issue; GAF2 flew first to IAD, then shuttled up to PHL after a short time on the ground in Washington.
I'm a little surprised that PHL would be that much cheaper than whatever far corner of Dulles as to be worth the extra fuel to fly here, but stranger things have happened. And presumably the reason it came here as opposed to somewhere even cheaper like ABE or ACY, was to let LH's ground team handle the aircraft on behalf of the Luftwaffe.
That's weird because the flight left from Philly to go back to Germany.
I agree the math does not make sense
aerace wrote:I just flew back from BHM last night via DC and noticed that the economy parking lot is showing no sign of any construction work. Is the plan still in place to expand that for cargo or has that been canceled due to the lower volume in pax and movements?
PHLspecial wrote:Detroit And Philly Hubs Lost Traffic In The Pandemic. Now Delta And American Look To Rebuild.
Here is a Forbes article mentioning PHL and the recovery.
Basically the VP of Network and Planning said that PHL is rebuilding. AA is waiting for the deliveries of the A321XLR and 787. Which AA supposedly is planning more widebodies in addition to the XLRs.
My opinion, I personally do not see AA adding more widebodies. I do see 10-12 XLRs based here. While I see PHL as the TATL hub, I don't see much improvement for domestic services other than some more restored frequencies to the West and South. The only new domestic destinations I can see is more Florida/beach routes.
TATL we will probably see restored service to EDI, GLA, SNN, BER, PRG, BUD all on the 321XLR. With air freight continuing it's downward trend of less air cargo I don't see MAN coming back on the XLR
aerace wrote:PHLspecial wrote:Detroit And Philly Hubs Lost Traffic In The Pandemic. Now Delta And American Look To Rebuild.
Here is a Forbes article mentioning PHL and the recovery.
Basically the VP of Network and Planning said that PHL is rebuilding. AA is waiting for the deliveries of the A321XLR and 787. Which AA supposedly is planning more widebodies in addition to the XLRs.
My opinion, I personally do not see AA adding more widebodies. I do see 10-12 XLRs based here. While I see PHL as the TATL hub, I don't see much improvement for domestic services other than some more restored frequencies to the West and South. The only new domestic destinations I can see is more Florida/beach routes.
TATL we will probably see restored service to EDI, GLA, SNN, BER, PRG, BUD all on the 321XLR. With air freight continuing it's downward trend of less air cargo I don't see MAN coming back on the XLR
Ha saw this yesterday and was going to drop it in this AM. I think more than anything, the waiting game is just so annoying for us PHL travelers. I know all these destinations are to come which is exciting, especially with some seasonals being year-round, but the PHL drag has been rough since 2020. Not trying to rush time, but these XLRs and 787s can't come soon enough.
PHLspecial wrote:Here is the list of top airlines in the month of January 2023
Airline, Total Passengers
- American Airlines 1,185,202
- Frontier Airlines 207,152
- Spirit Airlines 164,265
- Delta Airlines 117,806
- United Airlines 77,244
I know this is the first month but has Southwest reduce that much service? They are like 2 or 3 not to long ago
usairways85 wrote:PHLspecial wrote:Here is the list of top airlines in the month of January 2023
Airline, Total Passengers
- American Airlines 1,185,202
- Frontier Airlines 207,152
- Spirit Airlines 164,265
- Delta Airlines 117,806
- United Airlines 77,244
I know this is the first month but has Southwest reduce that much service? They are like 2 or 3 not to long ago
Yes
PHL-DAL was only 1x weekly (might still be)
MCO became Sat only last August/September (which is crazy considering that WN/FL used to have a total of 6-8 daily flights on the route). Now that capacity is with F9/NK...where F9 was actually the largest carrier in Q3 22.
PHX is still suspended
ATL is only 1-2x daily (Again, FL used to have 4-5x daily here but that is now with NK/F9 who have ~4x daily)
usairways85 wrote:I think we could see DL on SEA/LAX-PHL in 2024. Not only are they of strategic importance to DL but there is some opportunity given the reluctance by AA to add back capacity (on SEA) and the fare increase.
Q3 2022 PHL-SEA PDEW - 418 (only a few behind Q3 2018 and ~100 behind 2019). The average fare increased 34%
S23 AA & AS are only operating ~2x each
PHL-LAX in Q3 2022 was still down quite a bit over 2019, but the average fare increased 40%
Bigant0408 wrote:usairways85 wrote:I think we could see DL on SEA/LAX-PHL in 2024. Not only are they of strategic importance to DL but there is some opportunity given the reluctance by AA to add back capacity (on SEA) and the fare increase.
Q3 2022 PHL-SEA PDEW - 418 (only a few behind Q3 2018 and ~100 behind 2019). The average fare increased 34%
S23 AA & AS are only operating ~2x each
PHL-LAX in Q3 2022 was still down quite a bit over 2019, but the average fare increased 40%
I know overall that has been talked about in the past. I would love for them to start services to both routes. If this does come to fruition I think scheduling will be important. I remember when DL started service years ago to LAX the schedule wasn't the greatest with a 6pm departure from PHL and a redeye return.
I'm surprised the LAX fares increased with Spirit on the route but I guess there one-time daily flight wasn't enough to bring fares down. For SEA I'm not surprised since it's a OneWorld monopoly route basically
Bigant0408 wrote:usairways85 wrote:I think we could see DL on SEA/LAX-PHL in 2024. Not only are they of strategic importance to DL but there is some opportunity given the reluctance by AA to add back capacity (on SEA) and the fare increase.
Q3 2022 PHL-SEA PDEW - 418 (only a few behind Q3 2018 and ~100 behind 2019). The average fare increased 34%
S23 AA & AS are only operating ~2x each
PHL-LAX in Q3 2022 was still down quite a bit over 2019, but the average fare increased 40%
I know overall that has been talked about in the past. I would love for them to start services to both routes. If this does come to fruition I think scheduling will be important. I remember when DL started service years ago to LAX the schedule wasn't the greatest with a 6pm departure from PHL and a redeye return.
I'm surprised the LAX fares increased with Spirit on the route but I guess there one-time daily flight wasn't enough to bring fares down. For SEA I'm not surprised since it's a OneWorld monopoly route basically
Bigant0408 wrote:With Avelo announcing a huge expansion in Wilmington I'll be curious to see how much traffic will be pulled from PHL. I know the routes will start off at 2x to 3x per week but especially to secondary markets like GSP, ILM, MLB and DAB where AA is the only airline if they will be a affected in anyway
PHLspecial wrote:Bigant0408 wrote:With Avelo announcing a huge expansion in Wilmington I'll be curious to see how much traffic will be pulled from PHL. I know the routes will start off at 2x to 3x per week but especially to secondary markets like GSP, ILM, MLB and DAB where AA is the only airline if they will be a affected in anyway
I'm going to guess a few of those routes will stick around.
PHL is facing lots of competition from BWI, ILG, TTN, and EWR. I wonder how the airport will respond. I can't imagine with this much competition the total passengers will hit 30 million passengers this year. It does show there is demand in the Philadelphia MSA region. I'm curious if NJ people will bypass PHL for ILG or people far away as Lancaster
aerace wrote:Maybe it's me, but I feel this Avelo expansion at ILG is deja vu all over again with F9. Is 2x/week going to cut it? Are people in Wilmington area (many of whom go to the shore in the summertime) looking to head south to even hotter, stickier weather? Other than Orlando, most folks in South Florida fly north for the summer so I just can't see all these destinations really stick around. It will be interesting how Avelo navigates the summer storm season as well. The fog this past weekend didn't bode well for them.
aerace wrote:Maybe it's me, but I feel this Avelo expansion at ILG is deja vu all over again with F9. Is 2x/week going to cut it? Are people in Wilmington area (many of whom go to the shore in the summertime) looking to head south to even hotter, stickier weather? Other than Orlando, most folks in South Florida fly north for the summer so I just can't see all these destinations really stick around. It will be interesting how Avelo navigates the summer storm season as well. The fog this past weekend didn't bode well for them.
aerace wrote:Well it's official in the schedule. PHL-LIS/BCN are almost going (almost) year-round for AA. I wonder if this was a reaction to UA extending both of these markets at IAD. But I know I mentioned somewhere on the thread that this happened some years back. Looks like there might be the normal mid Jan to early Feb pauses, but this clearly is a step in the right direction to get PHL back to its glory TATL status. Really surprised ATH didn't get the bump into October but I guess there's still plenty of time for that to happen.
aerace wrote:Well it's official in the schedule. PHL-LIS/BCN are almost going (almost) year-round for AA. I wonder if this was a reaction to UA extending both of these markets at IAD. But I know I mentioned somewhere on the thread that this happened some years back. Looks like there might be the normal mid Jan to early Feb pauses, but this clearly is a step in the right direction to get PHL back to its glory TATL status. Really surprised ATH didn't get the bump into October but I guess there's still plenty of time for that to happen.
Zbogart757 wrote:aerace wrote:Well it's official in the schedule. PHL-LIS/BCN are almost going (almost) year-round for AA. I wonder if this was a reaction to UA extending both of these markets at IAD. But I know I mentioned somewhere on the thread that this happened some years back. Looks like there might be the normal mid Jan to early Feb pauses, but this clearly is a step in the right direction to get PHL back to its glory TATL status. Really surprised ATH didn't get the bump into October but I guess there's still plenty of time for that to happen.
Just about to post this, regarding ATH I could possibly see that happening for S24 only due to the B787 shortages right now. But regardless glad to see LIS/BCN get the extension, especially when this LIS extension was supposed to happen in 2020.
PHLspecial wrote:Looks like LIS and BCN is year round now
Would need to verify the BCN route
https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1650 ... yvYqA&s=19
PHLspecial wrote:Looks like LIS and BCN is year round now
Would need to verify the BCN route
https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1650 ... yvYqA&s=19
Bigant0408 wrote:PHLspecial wrote:Looks like LIS and BCN is year round now
Would need to verify the BCN route
https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1650 ... yvYqA&s=19
And include Rome as well. I didn't know that during the winter months the route was less than daily. Now it will be daily this upcoming winter
PHLspecial wrote:Bigant0408 wrote:PHLspecial wrote:Looks like LIS and BCN is year round now
Would need to verify the BCN route
https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1650 ... yvYqA&s=19
And include Rome as well. I didn't know that during the winter months the route was less than daily. Now it will be daily this upcoming winter
I thought it was daily the entire time guess now it's official.
So I expect less domestic widebody flying this coming winter season. Which I would totally have more international flying then domestic widebodies.
aerace wrote:Maybe it's me, but I feel this Avelo expansion at ILG is deja vu all over again with F9. Is 2x/week going to cut it? Are people in Wilmington area (many of whom go to the shore in the summertime) looking to head south to even hotter, stickier weather? Other than Orlando, most folks in South Florida fly north for the summer so I just can't see all these destinations really stick around. It will be interesting how Avelo navigates the summer storm season as well. The fog this past weekend didn't bode well for them.
PHLspecial wrote:
I thought this would be an interesting image to share about a recommendation for reconfiguring the terminals and taxiways.
I'm going to assume this is not feasible in the current terminal configuration
Bigant0408 wrote:PHLspecial wrote:
I thought this would be an interesting image to share about a recommendation for reconfiguring the terminals and taxiways.
I'm going to assume this is not feasible in the current terminal configuration
Anything is better than what is currently constructed right now. Where did you find this? PHL website?
Interesting indeed though. I'd assume the Cargo development would need to be complete or almost complete before this would get started.
PHLspecial wrote:Bigant0408 wrote:PHLspecial wrote:
I thought this would be an interesting image to share about a recommendation for reconfiguring the terminals and taxiways.
I'm going to assume this is not feasible in the current terminal configuration
Anything is better than what is currently constructed right now. Where did you find this? PHL website?
Interesting indeed though. I'd assume the Cargo development would need to be complete or almost complete before this would get started.
https://www.phl.org/masterplanupdate
If you look under Project Documents and you will find a file named Facility Requirements
Quite a bit of insight of what the airport is trying to evaluate for the master plan
PHLspecial wrote:Bigant0408 wrote:PHLspecial wrote:
I thought this would be an interesting image to share about a recommendation for reconfiguring the terminals and taxiways.
I'm going to assume this is not feasible in the current terminal configuration
Anything is better than what is currently constructed right now. Where did you find this? PHL website?
Interesting indeed though. I'd assume the Cargo development would need to be complete or almost complete before this would get started.
https://www.phl.org/masterplanupdate
If you look under Project Documents and you will find a file named Facility Requirements
Quite a bit of insight of what the airport is trying to evaluate for the master plan
Bigant0408 wrote:This part of the master plan interested me
". As of 2022, PHL has 126 gates: 18 gates widebody aircraft-capable (e.g., Boeing 787), 76
gates narrowbody aircraft-capable (e.g., Airbus 320) and 32 regional aircraft gates. Of the 126, 18 can process
international arrivals and 108 are for domestic flights only.
By 2040 PHL is projected to need 145 gates total: 20 gates for international and 125 gates for domestic flights.
Airlines will be shifting toward long-range narrowbody aircraft (such as the Airbus A321XLR) for international flights,
instead of flying large widebody aircraft. Also, there will be a long-term trend toward eliminating the use of smaller
regional jets with less than 100 seats and replacing them with larger aircraft (e.g., Airbus A220, Embraer E-Jets"
For International they are looking to expand to 2 more gates. I wonder if the XLR didn't exist if there projections would be different. None the less will be interesting the next few years. AA and F9 XLR potential for international service will be a game changer
aerace wrote:So Ishrion tweeted the updated LH schedule and from 10/29, PHL is going back to A343 so LH flag is back in action.
PHLspecial wrote:aerace wrote:So Ishrion tweeted the updated LH schedule and from 10/29, PHL is going back to A343 so LH flag is back in action.
Can we have the FinnAir crew Eurowing Discover service again?
That's a good thing that we have the flag carrier back? It's strange because all the signage in the airport is for Eurowing Discover now. Also I felt like I didn't have a good experience on LH on a 1 hour flight, LH TATL image is doesn't seem positive at the moment, I hope they improve the onboard service.
aerace wrote:PHLspecial wrote:aerace wrote:So Ishrion tweeted the updated LH schedule and from 10/29, PHL is going back to A343 so LH flag is back in action.
Can we have the FinnAir crew Eurowing Discover service again?
That's a good thing that we have the flag carrier back? It's strange because all the signage in the airport is for Eurowing Discover now. Also I felt like I didn't have a good experience on LH on a 1 hour flight, LH TATL image is doesn't seem positive at the moment, I hope they improve the onboard service.
Yeah, I think that situation was just so unique with the wet lease. I will be curious to hear how the service is this summer on Eurowings without the Finn Air crew. Either way, I think having a flight on a legacy carrier is better image-wise than having it on their less premium subsidiary. Maybe they hold onto the sign in case they switch back for next summer...
SumChristianus wrote:aerace wrote:PHLspecial wrote:Can we have the FinnAir crew Eurowing Discover service again?
That's a good thing that we have the flag carrier back? It's strange because all the signage in the airport is for Eurowing Discover now. Also I felt like I didn't have a good experience on LH on a 1 hour flight, LH TATL image is doesn't seem positive at the moment, I hope they improve the onboard service.
Yeah, I think that situation was just so unique with the wet lease. I will be curious to hear how the service is this summer on Eurowings without the Finn Air crew. Either way, I think having a flight on a legacy carrier is better image-wise than having it on their less premium subsidiary. Maybe they hold onto the sign in case they switch back for next summer...
Are you sure? AeroRoutes says its Eurowings Discover from Oct 29th: https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230427-lhnw23
usairways85 wrote:SumChristianus wrote:aerace wrote:Yeah, I think that situation was just so unique with the wet lease. I will be curious to hear how the service is this summer on Eurowings without the Finn Air crew. Either way, I think having a flight on a legacy carrier is better image-wise than having it on their less premium subsidiary. Maybe they hold onto the sign in case they switch back for next summer...
Are you sure? AeroRoutes says its Eurowings Discover from Oct 29th: https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230427-lhnw23
It apears to be currently in the schedule as LH 426/427 343 4x weekly.
The aeroroutes post is confusing because it is listed under Eurowings but they do not fly the 343.