Welcome to the Pittsburgh Aviation thread - 2023 edition.

Please continue to post your news and discussions below.

Link to the 2022 edition:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1468565

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Happy 2023, looking forward to some news this year. BA going six times a week, some more breeze routes.

Im still holding out hope we get KEF back with Play or icelandair

These were my predictions for 2022:

WN adds SAT or MCI
- Nope, WN barely did anything with PIT

UA resumes SFO
- I actually got this one correct!

MX adds SAN
- Oooh, so close! SNA in March 2023 instead

G4 moves into TLH or ILM and adds seasonal service
- I don't think G4 did anything new at PIT last year

AS adds seasonal service to PDX
- This didn't happen either

With that in mind, these will be my predictions for 2023:

• DL resumes service to SLC
• MX adds service to VRB
• WN adds service to MCI
• G4 adds seasonal service to a new destination

Let's 2023 going!

For '22, it was good to have LHR and SFO back. NK to EWR was also a nice add, keeping affordable options to the NYC area. Looking forward to MX to MSY and SNA.

Don't really know what to expect for '23. SLC returning once the airport construction is complete would be nice (or has SLC been finished?) I'm honestly not sure what else to predict. WN flying to AUS for more than just over the holidays? How about PHX not be a seasonal AA destination? I'm still holding out hope for AS to PDX as a summer seasonal. Any word on DE returning to PIT-FRA? I feel that one is in the realm of possibilities. I think it's also likely that MX/G4 adds a destination or two, though Florida is already pretty well covered.

The random cities that always seem on the fringes for PIT services are IND, MKE, SAT, MCI, SAN. If you're talking about a daily CRJ/ERJ, then that opens up a lot of smaller vacation destinations, like UA did during summer '21. But doesn't seem like that's happening again.

PITexpress wrote:

Don't really know what to expect for '23. SLC returning once the airport construction is complete would be nice (or has SLC been finished?)

Delta's 22-gate Concourse A-East opens four gates in May 2023, and balance by November 2023. Construction on Concourse B continues until 2027.

Hope to see resumption of SLC-PIT, and DL had also stopped SLC-CLE, IND, CMH, DSM, MSN, and MKE (among others) during the pandemic. SLC-MKE was first suspended, then permanently cut, but is now showing restored on June 5, 2023.

PITexpress wrote:

How about PHX not be a seasonal AA destination?

Google Flights shows AA operating daily to PHX all the way to the end of the booking window (currently Dec 2nd)
Fingers crossed it stays that way!

PITexpress wrote:

Let's 2023 going!

For '22, it was good to have LHR and SFO back. NK to EWR was also a nice add, keeping affordable options to the NYC area. Looking forward to MX to MSY and SNA.

Don't really know what to expect for '23. SLC returning once the airport construction is complete would be nice (or has SLC been finished?) I'm honestly not sure what else to predict. WN flying to AUS for more than just over the holidays? How about PHX not be a seasonal AA destination? I'm still holding out hope for AS to PDX as a summer seasonal. Any word on DE returning to PIT-FRA? I feel that one is in the realm of possibilities. I think it's also likely that MX/G4 adds a destination or two, though Florida is already pretty well covered.

The random cities that always seem on the fringes for PIT services are IND, MKE, SAT, MCI, SAN. If you're talking about a daily CRJ/ERJ, then that opens up a lot of smaller vacation destinations, like UA did during summer '21. But doesn't seem like that's happening again.

DE is NOT coming back, they sold several widebodies during the pandemic and their sale to LOT fell apart also....I'm glad we still have BA.

USPIT10L wrote:

PITexpress wrote:

Let's 2023 going!

For '22, it was good to have LHR and SFO back. NK to EWR was also a nice add, keeping affordable options to the NYC area. Looking forward to MX to MSY and SNA.

Don't really know what to expect for '23. SLC returning once the airport construction is complete would be nice (or has SLC been finished?) I'm honestly not sure what else to predict. WN flying to AUS for more than just over the holidays? How about PHX not be a seasonal AA destination? I'm still holding out hope for AS to PDX as a summer seasonal. Any word on DE returning to PIT-FRA? I feel that one is in the realm of possibilities. I think it's also likely that MX/G4 adds a destination or two, though Florida is already pretty well covered.

The random cities that always seem on the fringes for PIT services are IND, MKE, SAT, MCI, SAN. If you're talking about a daily CRJ/ERJ, then that opens up a lot of smaller vacation destinations, like UA did during summer '21. But doesn't seem like that's happening again.

DE is NOT coming back, they sold several widebodies during the pandemic and their sale to LOT fell apart also....I'm glad we still have BA.

I agree. Zero percent chance we see DE again in PIT unless it's a charter. That ship has long sailed.

It really is a bummer thinking what we did have in recent memory. Service to Iceland, Germany, France, etc. Even those one off flights to China were kinda cool. Sadly, that was the high point of C.C. tenure with PIT.

Nov numbers... pax up 4.6%, cargo down 26.7%.
https://flypittsburgh.com/wp-content/up ... Report.pdf

For what it's worth the PIT LHR flight was advertised on my Cleveland pandora feed this AM. First I've heard. I know PIT advertised pretty heavily in CLE back during the UA hubs and fares here were considerably higher. It makes all the sense in the world, it's a mere 1:45 minute drive from the wealthier eastern suburbs.

"Examining the cost and the payoff of Pittsburgh's quest to woo British Airways"

https://www.post-gazette.com/business/d ... 2301150097

flyPIT wrote:

"Examining the cost and the payoff of Pittsburgh's quest to woo British Airways"

https://www.post-gazette.com/business/d ... 2301150097

Someone has some explaining to do, a 4 day trip, 150k cost with majority of the expense was to fly government workers in business class…

So the math here is 100 extra days of flying bring in $12.3mm that’s $123,000 per flight assuming year round. Seem fair? I’m always skeptical of these economic development calculations due to the obvious conflict of interest of those who produce them. But $123 is t absurd.

One can disagree with the reasoning of sending so many people, and sending them in business class. However you can’t say there were no reasons given. They were clearly outlined in the article.

ncflyer wrote:

So the math here is 100 extra days of flying bring in $12.3mm that’s $123,000 per flight assuming year round. Seem fair? I’m always skeptical of these economic development calculations due to the obvious conflict of interest of those who produce them. But $123 is t absurd.

When Condor began PIT the economic impact was quoted as $300,000 per flight. That was straight from DE’s VP of N. America operations. I hear ya wrt to a conflict of interest with the source.

BA744PHX wrote:

flyPIT wrote:

"Examining the cost and the payoff of Pittsburgh's quest to woo British Airways"

https://www.post-gazette.com/business/d ... 2301150097

Someone has some explaining to do, a 4 day trip, 150k cost with majority of the expense was to fly government workers in business class…

Maybe too many people. But this was a business trip and therefore I think flying business class is reasonable. Also, whether the trip sealed the deal for more flights or not, PIT ultimately came away with more direct flights to LHR. It’s not like I always defend the ACAA, but I don’t really understand the point of this article. Maybe we should look at how much the Post Gazette is paying Michael Boyd for these quotes.

PITfall wrote:

Maybe we should look at how much the Post Gazette is paying Michael Boyd for these quotes.

Haha, seconded

I thought the articular was going to talk about whether or not this expense was worth it from an economic development standpoint. I.e. how much development would these additional flights actually bring in? Would it be worth what we're paying for them?

PITexpress wrote:

I thought the articular was going to talk about whether or not this expense was worth it from an economic development standpoint. I.e. how much development would these additional flights actually bring in? Would it be worth what we're paying for them?

“She noted that a month after the trek, British Airways announced that it was expanding the frequency of its nonstop between Pittsburgh International Airport and London to six days a week from four by May 14 — a decision the authority claims is worth more than $12 million in annual economic impact to the region.

“We achieved our goal. It worked,” she said.”

Here we go again.....

"Allegheny County Airport Authority CEO Christina Cassotis gets $240,300 bonus for her work last year"
https://www.post-gazette.com/business/d ... 2301200083


Her 2023 compensation will now top $800,000. PIT has lagged behind its peer airports by about a year in passenger number recovery from COVID.

flyPIT wrote:

PITexpress wrote:

I thought the articular was going to talk about whether or not this expense was worth it from an economic development standpoint. I.e. how much development would these additional flights actually bring in? Would it be worth what we're paying for them?

“She noted that a month after the trek, British Airways announced that it was expanding the frequency of its nonstop between Pittsburgh International Airport and London to six days a week from four by May 14 — a decision the authority claims is worth more than $12 million in annual economic impact to the region.

“We achieved our goal. It worked,” she said.”

She conveniently failed to mention that the decision to go to 6 daily was made by BA in July/August. That was quite some bit of time before this little sojourn. Given the amount of leakage of that news within various inner circles, I highly doubt that she was unaware of it. A mouse doesn't break wind in this facility without her knowing it. That's not to say that there wasn't any value to that particular trip, networking makes the world go round after all. I'm just clarifying that this particular trip had ZERO influence on the increased BA service and to say otherwise is disingenuous at best.

How do they come up with the $12 million for adding 2 frequencies a week?

It's interesting as a poster from Cleveland mentioned last year that he was taking the BA flight to Europe for vacation with I believe his family. Taking his trip as an example, Imagine he might have a week of parking, some passenger facility charges and maybe $20 for overpriced airport snacks. So his economic impact might be around $200 max for a couple of passengers. Let's assume he doesn't take in a Pirates game and drives right back home.

Just wondering how they come up with these numbers.

MohawkWeekend wrote:

How do they come up with the $12 million for adding 2 frequencies a week?

It's interesting as a poster from Cleveland mentioned last year that he was taking the BA flight to Europe for vacation with I believe his family. Taking his trip as an example, Imagine he might have a week of parking, some passenger facility charges and maybe $20 for overpriced airport snacks. So his economic impact might be around $200 max for a couple of passengers. Let's assume he doesn't take in a Pirates game and drives right back home.

Just wondering how they come up with these numbers.

Thin air

MohawkWeekend wrote:

How do they come up with the $12 million for adding 2 frequencies a week?

It's interesting as a poster from Cleveland mentioned last year that he was taking the BA flight to Europe for vacation with I believe his family. Taking his trip as an example, Imagine he might have a week of parking, some passenger facility charges and maybe $20 for overpriced airport snacks. So his economic impact might be around $200 max for a couple of passengers. Let's assume he doesn't take in a Pirates game and drives right back home.

Just wondering how they come up with these numbers.

I don’t quite think it is the pocket change passengers spend as much as it is revenue from landing fees, fuel sales, cargo activity, etc that the flight generates; plus as we know having a nonstop will significantly increase O&D and visitors on the route.

I did forget to add the cost of using all the PA tollways you drive on to get to PIT from Ohio.

MohawkWeekend wrote:

How do they come up with the $12 million for adding 2 frequencies a week?

It's interesting as a poster from Cleveland mentioned last year that he was taking the BA flight to Europe for vacation with I believe his family. Taking his trip as an example, Imagine he might have a week of parking, some passenger facility charges and maybe $20 for overpriced airport snacks. So his economic impact might be around $200 max for a couple of passengers. Let's assume he doesn't take in a Pirates game and drives right back home.

Just wondering how they come up with these numbers.

Considering the Cargo holds have reportedly been sold out months into the future, I’m sure a lot of this has to do with cargo.

flyPIT wrote:

Here we go again.....

"Allegheny County Airport Authority CEO Christina Cassotis gets $240,300 bonus for her work last year"
https://www.post-gazette.com/business/d ... 2301200083


Her 2023 compensation will now top $800,000. PIT has lagged behind its peer airports by about a year in passenger number recovery from COVID.

Honest question. How much blame do you put on Cassotis and the ACAA for lagging passenger numbers? What could they be doing better to drive passenger numbers?

Now I know why cleveland has been without a permanent director for over a year! I believe the last director was paid in the 2s or maybe the low 3s. Pittsburgh is the George Steinbrenner or Stephen Cohen of airports— driving up the cost for everyone else, competing against perhaps nobody.

flyPIT wrote:

Here we go again.....

"Allegheny County Airport Authority CEO Christina Cassotis gets $240,300 bonus for her work last year"
https://www.post-gazette.com/business/d ... 2301200083


Her 2023 compensation will now top $800,000. PIT has lagged behind its peer airports by about a year in passenger number recovery from COVID.

Seems like an excessive salary. It's double what the CEO of LAX makes.

PITfall wrote:

flyPIT wrote:

Here we go again.....

"Allegheny County Airport Authority CEO Christina Cassotis gets $240,300 bonus for her work last year"
https://www.post-gazette.com/business/d ... 2301200083


Her 2023 compensation will now top $800,000. PIT has lagged behind its peer airports by about a year in passenger number recovery from COVID.

Honest question. How much blame do you put on Cassotis and the ACAA for lagging passenger numbers? What could they be doing better to drive passenger numbers?

As far as blame, not much. They have nothing to do with the region’s sagging economy and population loss. But that does not mean she should be making over $800,000 per year.

As far as increasing passenger numbers I’d advertise the hell out of NE OH, and invest in a company such as Silver or Ravn in order to restore service to places such as IND, RIC, BUF, etc.

flyPIT wrote:

PITfall wrote:

flyPIT wrote:

Here we go again.....

"Allegheny County Airport Authority CEO Christina Cassotis gets $240,300 bonus for her work last year"
https://www.post-gazette.com/business/d ... 2301200083


Her 2023 compensation will now top $800,000. PIT has lagged behind its peer airports by about a year in passenger number recovery from COVID.

Honest question. How much blame do you put on Cassotis and the ACAA for lagging passenger numbers? What could they be doing better to drive passenger numbers?

As far as blame, not much. They have nothing to do with the region’s sagging economy and population loss. But that does not mean she should be making over $800,000 per year.

As far as increasing passenger numbers I’d advertise the hell out of NE OH, and invest in a company such as Silver or Ravn in order to restore service to places such as IND, RIC, BUF, etc.

Agree 100%. I would be going hard at LCC services to drive passengers. They have done a good job retaining and growing Breeze.

flyPIT wrote:

PITfall wrote:

flyPIT wrote:

Here we go again.....

"Allegheny County Airport Authority CEO Christina Cassotis gets $240,300 bonus for her work last year"
https://www.post-gazette.com/business/d ... 2301200083


Her 2023 compensation will now top $800,000. PIT has lagged behind its peer airports by about a year in passenger number recovery from COVID.

Honest question. How much blame do you put on Cassotis and the ACAA for lagging passenger numbers? What could they be doing better to drive passenger numbers?

As far as blame, not much. They have nothing to do with the region’s sagging economy and population loss. But that does not mean she should be making over $800,000 per year.

As far as increasing passenger numbers I’d advertise the hell out of NE OH, and invest in a company such as Silver or Ravn in order to restore service to places such as IND, RIC, BUF, etc.

I'm not sure that IND is a viable destination from PIT at the moment. Countour tried it in late 2021 but pulled out after a few months as the market just wasn't there. I recall an article last year where they hoped to resume service but there's been no further developments.

I feel the biggest increase in passenger numbers can come from existing destinations. Quite a few places still have fewer flights compared to before the pandemic hit. Some of the bigger examples below:

CLT: In May 2019 there were 6 AA mainline and 3 AA regional flights each weekday with a maximum load of 1029 passengers. In May 2023 there will be 5 AA mainline flights with a maximum load of 888 passengers. That's 141 fewer passengers a day.
BOS: May 2019 had 5 DL regional and 6 B6 flights, max load 966 passengers. May 2023 will have 3 DL regional and 4 B6 flights. Max load will be 708 passengers, 258 fewer a day
ATL: May 2019, had 9 DL flights and 3 WN flights, max load of 1832 passengers. May 2023, will have 7 DL flights and 1 WN flight. Max load would be 1484 passengers, 348 fewer a day.
ORD: May 2019 had 3 AA mainline, 4 AA regional, 3 UA mainline and 3 UA regional flights, max load 1366 passengers. May 2023 will have 2 AA mainline, 1 AA regional, 3 UA mainline and 2 UA regional flights. Max load will be 989 passengers, 377 fewer a day.

flyPIT wrote:

As far as blame, not much. They have nothing to do with the region’s sagging economy and population loss. But that does not mean she should be making over $800,000 per year.

As far as increasing passenger numbers I’d advertise the hell out of NE OH, and invest in a company such as Silver or Ravn in order to restore service to places such as IND, RIC, BUF, etc.

I agree that C.C. is not to blame per se for the sagging numbers, but touting her performance as meeting goals to earn this substantial bonus seems rather strange. Common sense says that things would bounce back (just like dropping a rubber ball, it will bounce back, just a question of how high). We still have not recovered certain services, and I don't really see anything standing out right now that says "WOW, look what she did".

I will admit, C.C. was an amazing driver for this airport early on. Prior Directors just kind of sat around, maybe added a destination or two, collected nice checks, and called it a day. C.C. really drove the airport growth. The trouble is, I think she hit a wall.

There is really only so much you can do with our region. Her hands are tied, as she can't really make more people live or travel here. That duty falls on our state/local government leaders, who continuously fail the constituents time and time again, yet people continue to vote them into office.

My hope was that coming out of the pandemic, we would see our recovery with passenger numbers to within 80% Pre-Covid, but also see ourselves positioned as a cargo destination as well. However, that quickly fell off and now we are merely a smaller mid-sized airport with a handful of cargo flights...

I see WN is re-adding PIT-AUS on Sunday only. Not sure of the start date.

AUS resumes on September 10th according to The Points Guy.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/southwest ... alifornia/

It shows up on WN's website but not on Google Flights. WN1733 PIT-AUS and WN3586 AUS-PIT.

JamesRenard wrote:

AUS resumes on September 10th according to The Points Guy.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/southwest ... alifornia/

It shows up on WN's website but not on Google Flights. WN1733 PIT-AUS and WN3586 AUS-PIT.

Google is always a couple days behind the update

Jshank83 wrote:

JamesRenard wrote:

AUS resumes on September 10th according to The Points Guy.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/southwest ... alifornia/

It shows up on WN's website but not on Google Flights. WN1733 PIT-AUS and WN3586 AUS-PIT.

Google is always a couple days behind the update

Is this a resumption? I know they did a couple holiday flights but I don’t remember Sunday service

PITfall wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

JamesRenard wrote:

AUS resumes on September 10th according to The Points Guy.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/southwest ... alifornia/

It shows up on WN's website but not on Google Flights. WN1733 PIT-AUS and WN3586 AUS-PIT.

Google is always a couple days behind the update

Is this a resumption? I know they did a couple holiday flights but I don’t remember Sunday service

I think it was a Saturday only flights but that could’ve been a different airline that flew PIT-AUS

I thought allegiant did it at some point?

AaronPGH wrote:

I thought allegiant did it at some point?

We have seasonal Fri and Mon service from Allegiant.

PITfall wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

JamesRenard wrote:

AUS resumes on September 10th according to The Points Guy.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/southwest ... alifornia/

It shows up on WN's website but not on Google Flights. WN1733 PIT-AUS and WN3586 AUS-PIT.

Google is always a couple days behind the update

Is this a resumption? I know they did a couple holiday flights but I don’t remember Sunday service

WN started PIT-AUS in November 2021 but service only ran until early January 2022. They resumed service again in November 2022 for the same duration.

According to Blue Sky, PIT-AUS will be year round when it returns later this year. PIT-PHX is also going back to daily on WN in September.
https://blueskypit.com/2023/02/09/south ... ittsburgh/

Dec numbers are finally out. Passengers up 5.6%, cargo down 26%.

Total 2022 passengers came in at 8.1 million.

https://flypittsburgh.com/wp-content/up ... Report.pdf

Breeze to announce PIT-RDU/JAX/ISP/PWM. All available for booking on their website.

https://ishrionaviation.com/news/breeze ... -expansion

krod031 wrote:

Breeze to announce PIT-RDU/JAX/ISP/PWM. All available for booking on their website.

https://ishrionaviation.com/news/breeze ... -expansion

PIT RDU… wow. Breeze vs AA

So MX will be up to 10 destinations now at PIT? Wow, I had them all but written off at PIT.

Anyway, some surprising additions here. I think PWM is a solid add for the summer, United seemed to do well when they ran it. I think RDU is a good add, it’s a large VFR market and not drivable. Other than that, seems like a bit of a dartboard strategy.

Glad to see MX is finally finding their footing at PIT. I'm interested in how ISP will play out as an alternative option for New York.

I could have used an affordable PIT-ISP many, many times in years past. It doesn't do me a whole lot of good now, alas.

I'm very excited to try ISP-PIT. I live on the North Shore of Long Island and travel back and forth to PIT frequently and right now my most affordable option is NK into EWR, which I have used several times. But here's the catch for anyone east of the city: when I fly PIT-EWR, this requires the Airtrain to NJ Transit to NY Penn Station to LIRR and finally culminating with an Uber home. Cost effective, but time comsuming. It'll take anyone who lives in Western Nassau County or Queens or Northern/Eastern Brooklyn over an hour minimum to drive out to ISP, but the public transit options to EWR can often longer door-to-door. Also parking rates at ISP are obviously attractive compared to JFK and LGA.

I'm wondering with the summer schedule if the goal of this flight is more to get yinzers to come out to the Long Island beaches rather than just visit NYC. Summer is undoubtedly the worst time to visit NYC as far as comfort goes.

PIT-ISP is a part of a greater aircraft routing. It is the intermediate stop from JAX to ISP and then back to JAX. So I’m sure there is demand, but the PIT ISP leg doesn’t necessarily have to fill the plane.

Likewise, PWM and RDU are apart of the greater aircraft routings: ORF-PWM-PIT and ORF-PIT-RDU.

ACAA Board meeting minutes for all of 2022 are posted on the ACAA website.
https://flypittsburgh.com/wp-content/up ... nutes-.pdf

A couple interesting nuggets:

- AGC in 2021 had its busiest year in 10 years with operations increasing 18% yoy, and hangar occupancy is at 97%

- Agreement for Atlas Air to operate cargo flights as a signatory carrier.


Also on the agenda for the next Board meeting in a couple days:
"71-23 National Air Cargo
Authorization is requested to enter in a signatory cargo airline operating agreement with National Air
Cargo. The term of the agreement will be month-to-month and begin on March 1, 2023. This agreement
is to allow National to operate cargo flights to and from Pittsburgh International Airport (PIT) as a
signatory carrier"
https://flypittsburgh.com/wp-content/up ... .17.23.pdf


Over at LBE, plans move forward for the terminal expansion and there is a destination survey available for those interested:
https://palmerairport.com/destination-survey/

I have noticed quite a lot of PIT upgauging by UA lately in my personal bookings. Lots of MAX action at all hubs, lots of regional going to mainline. It's been a minute since I've personally come across an A319. Been hearing about this in their plans for years, nice to see it finally happening.