Asheville - beer town to beer town!

stlgph wrote:

Asheville - beer town to beer town!

Asheville and Newark are the two I would be most excited about. I’ve been wanting a ULCC to NYC. And Asheville obviously by because it is a new route.

Asheville would be a terrific addition. Allegiant already does have a base there and if they are focusing on some shorter turns, adds out of there - say BLV, IND, etc. would be great additions.

I wonder if a Florida-USA (Concord/Padgett)-BLV and back turn might prove into something fruitful a few days a week. They seem to be doing fairly good out of USA but all their flying from there is back and forth out of Florida.

Does Allegiant have a base in New Orleans?

stlgph wrote:

Asheville would be a terrific addition. Allegiant already does have a base there and if they are focusing on some shorter turns, adds out of there - say BLV, IND, etc. would be great additions.

I wonder if a Florida-USA (Concord/Padgett)-BLV and back turn might prove into something fruitful a few days a week. They seem to be doing fairly good out of USA but all their flying from there is back and forth out of Florida.

Does Allegiant have a base in New Orleans?

Assuming this is updated

Operating bases
Allentown
Appleton
Asheville
Austin
Bellingham
Cincinnati
Des Moines
Flint
Fort Walton Beach
Fort Lauderdale
Grand Rapids
Indianapolis
Knoxville
Las Vegas
Los Angeles
Nashville
Orlando/Sanford
Phoenix–Mesa
Pittsburgh
Provo
Punta Gorda
Savannah
St. Petersburg (FL)

I also think a reason to look at shorter routes is it opens 2 for 1 options and non bases. You can fly Base-BLV-non base-BLV base. So BNA-BLV-EWR-BLV-BNA Instead I’d something like just AZA-BLV-AZA.

yeah, i saw that list, too. was just curious how some of the proposed routes in the BLV presentation might route.

AA updated May. Austin cut May 5 thru end of month.

Final STL numbers for 2022

13,665,517 passengers
32% higher than 2021
Down 13.9% from 2019

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... -FINAL.pdf

I was in line in front of Rhonda today boarding my flight. She said the melt down took 100-200K off our number, I can't remember exactly what she said at the moment.

I’m getting ready to book a work trip to BCN via FRA on LH. I’m seeing 27% on time on the STL-LHR leg. Wow, when we flew this for Oktoberfest in September we had no issues. I know they’ve had challenges but that is insanely low. I have to book work travel via TripActions but pretty sure it is pulling some pretty accurate data.

TWA302 wrote:

I’m getting ready to book a work trip to BCN via FRA on LH. I’m seeing 27% on time on the STL-LHR leg. Wow, when we flew this for Oktoberfest in September we had no issues. I know they’ve had challenges but that is insanely low. I have to book work travel via TripActions but pretty sure it is pulling some pretty accurate data.

Looks mostly green on Flightradar24. A few yellows a handful of reds. There are a lot of times it leaves 20 or so minutes late but arrives early. Some it leaves almost an hour late and still arrives on time. So if it’s going by departure time and is strict about the leeway or gives then 27% might be right. But it’s on time landing a majority of the time.

Jshank83 wrote:

TWA302 wrote:

I’m getting ready to book a work trip to BCN via FRA on LH. I’m seeing 27% on time on the STL-LHR leg. Wow, when we flew this for Oktoberfest in September we had no issues. I know they’ve had challenges but that is insanely low. I have to book work travel via TripActions but pretty sure it is pulling some pretty accurate data.

Looks mostly green on Flightradar24. A few yellows a handful of reds. There are a lot of times it leaves 20 or so minutes late but arrives early. Some it leaves almost an hour late and still arrives on time. So if it’s going by departure time and is strict about the leeway or gives then 27% might be right. But it’s on time landing a majority of the time.

Sorry I meant FRA leg, not LHR... not sure what I was doing. I am not worried. Just love having the ability to get to more places quicker across the pond from STL.

February Frequencies

Flights per week
2023 (2022) 2020
WN 649 (561) 734
AA 193 (244) 254
DL 138 (137) 183
UA 138 (129) 196
F9 35 (29) 29
G4 15 (19) 20
AS 14 (7) 6
NK 10 (43) XX
AC 7 (0) 21

Total STL 1255 (1252) 1596

Seats on Monday
2023 seats (vs 2022) vs 2020
AA 3502 (-20.6%) -21.5%
DL 2531 (-1.75%) -26%
UA 1354 (+6.11%) -18.1%

Notes:

F9 - MBJ starts up (NEW ROUTE)
AA - DCA gets first mainline in a long time. More seats than January but a big drop from last year.
UA - At least one mainline a day per route except IAD. Nice bump from last year. Same amount of weekly flights as DL but less mainline. ORD up to 7x/day
AS - bumps up to 2x/day
G4 - FLL is back
AC - back to E175
NK - down to 10 flights a week, none on Saturdays

Spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Jshank83 wrote:

February Frequencies

Flights per week
2023 (2022) 2020
WN 649 (561) 734
AA 193 (244) 254
DL 138 (137) 183
UA 138 (129) 196
F9 35 (29) 29
G4 15 (19) 20
AS 14 (7) 6
NK 10 (43) XX
AC 7 (0) 21

Total STL 1255 (1252) 1596

Seats on Monday
2023 seats (vs 2022) vs 2020
AA 3502 (-20.6%) -21.5%
DL 2531 (-1.75%) -26%
UA 1354 (+6.11%) -18.1%

Notes:

F9 - MBJ starts up (NEW ROUTE)
AA - DCA gets first mainline in a long time. More seats than January but a big drop from last year.
UA - At least one mainline a day per route except IAD. Nice bump from last year. Same amount of weekly flights as DL but less mainline. ORD up to 7x/day
AS - bumps up to 2x/day
G4 - FLL is back
AC - back to E175
NK - down to 10 flights a week, none on Saturdays

Spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

That's the earliest AS has ever restarted the 2nd daily to SEA. 3rd daily this summer. They clearly see an opportunity with WN stuck on SAT only.

Jshank83 wrote:

February Frequencies

Flights per week
2023 (2022) 2020
WN 649 (561) 734
AA 193 (244) 254
DL 138 (137) 183
UA 138 (129) 196
F9 35 (29) 29
G4 15 (19) 20
AS 14 (7) 6
NK 10 (43) XX
AC 7 (0) 21

Total STL 1255 (1252) 1596

Seats on Monday
2023 seats (vs 2022) vs 2020
AA 3502 (-20.6%) -21.5%
DL 2531 (-1.75%) -26%
UA 1354 (+6.11%) -18.1%

Notes:

F9 - MBJ starts up (NEW ROUTE)
AA - DCA gets first mainline in a long time. More seats than January but a big drop from last year.
UA - At least one mainline a day per route except IAD. Nice bump from last year. Same amount of weekly flights as DL but less mainline. ORD up to 7x/day
AS - bumps up to 2x/day
G4 - FLL is back
AC - back to E175
NK - down to 10 flights a week, none on Saturdays

Spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

NK is really having trouble competing in the STL market. Nice bump in WN flights.

dcaproducer wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

February Frequencies

Flights per week
2023 (2022) 2020
WN 649 (561) 734
AA 193 (244) 254
DL 138 (137) 183
UA 138 (129) 196
F9 35 (29) 29
G4 15 (19) 20
AS 14 (7) 6
NK 10 (43) XX
AC 7 (0) 21

Total STL 1255 (1252) 1596

Seats on Monday
2023 seats (vs 2022) vs 2020
AA 3502 (-20.6%) -21.5%
DL 2531 (-1.75%) -26%
UA 1354 (+6.11%) -18.1%

Notes:

F9 - MBJ starts up (NEW ROUTE)
AA - DCA gets first mainline in a long time. More seats than January but a big drop from last year.
UA - At least one mainline a day per route except IAD. Nice bump from last year. Same amount of weekly flights as DL but less mainline. ORD up to 7x/day
AS - bumps up to 2x/day
G4 - FLL is back
AC - back to E175
NK - down to 10 flights a week, none on Saturdays

Spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

NK is really having trouble competing in the STL market. Nice bump in WN flights.

The meltdown they had a few months after that started killed the momentum here. I had heard they ever had more in the hopper to add then that killed it all. It also doesn't help when they schedule flights for winter/spring FLL/RSW/PHX then cancel them all a couple months out. Tough to build loyalty. They really need to get FLL/LAX back and then work from there.

Jshank83 wrote:

dcaproducer wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

February Frequencies

Flights per week
2023 (2022) 2020
WN 649 (561) 734
AA 193 (244) 254
DL 138 (137) 183
UA 138 (129) 196
F9 35 (29) 29
G4 15 (19) 20
AS 14 (7) 6
NK 10 (43) XX
AC 7 (0) 21

Total STL 1255 (1252) 1596

Seats on Monday
2023 seats (vs 2022) vs 2020
AA 3502 (-20.6%) -21.5%
DL 2531 (-1.75%) -26%
UA 1354 (+6.11%) -18.1%

Notes:

F9 - MBJ starts up (NEW ROUTE)
AA - DCA gets first mainline in a long time. More seats than January but a big drop from last year.
UA - At least one mainline a day per route except IAD. Nice bump from last year. Same amount of weekly flights as DL but less mainline. ORD up to 7x/day
AS - bumps up to 2x/day
G4 - FLL is back
AC - back to E175
NK - down to 10 flights a week, none on Saturdays

Spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

NK is really having trouble competing in the STL market. Nice bump in WN flights.

The meltdown they had a few months after that started killed the momentum here. I had heard they ever had more in the hopper to add then that killed it all. It also doesn't help when they schedule flights for winter/spring FLL/RSW/PHX then cancel them all a couple months out. Tough to build loyalty. They really need to get FLL/LAX back and then work from there.

Nearly every route they chose already had two entrenched carriers on it. CUN could not support 4 carriers and PNS couldn't support 2.

Commission meeting agenda tomorrow.

One interesting one to me as I a really don't know what it really means. It is weird that Southwest would be picking the consultant, so I am curious what it is for. Maybe the new baggage claim?

Approval is request of a Memorandum of Agreement (“MOA”) between the City and
Southwest Airlines Co. (“Southwest”) authorizing payments to airline consultant
identified by Southwest to the Airport, and the establishment of a Special Assessment
to be imposed on Signatory Airlines. The Contract Not-To-Exceed Amount is
$750,000

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... Agenda.pdf

Jshank83 wrote:

Commission meeting agenda tomorrow.

One interesting one to me as I a really don't know what it really means. It is weird that Southwest would be picking the consultant, so I am curious what it is for. Maybe the new baggage claim?

Approval is request of a Memorandum of Agreement (“MOA”) between the City and
Southwest Airlines Co. (“Southwest”) authorizing payments to airline consultant
identified by Southwest to the Airport, and the establishment of a Special Assessment
to be imposed on Signatory Airlines. The Contract Not-To-Exceed Amount is
$750,000

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... Agenda.pdf

New baggage claim and/or maybe more gates? It could also be WN wanting some consulting related to the new terminal project.

dcaproducer wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

Commission meeting agenda tomorrow.

One interesting one to me as I a really don't know what it really means. It is weird that Southwest would be picking the consultant, so I am curious what it is for. Maybe the new baggage claim?

Approval is request of a Memorandum of Agreement (“MOA”) between the City and
Southwest Airlines Co. (“Southwest”) authorizing payments to airline consultant
identified by Southwest to the Airport, and the establishment of a Special Assessment
to be imposed on Signatory Airlines. The Contract Not-To-Exceed Amount is
$750,000

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... Agenda.pdf

New baggage claim and/or maybe more gates? It could also be WN w some consulting related to the new terminal project.

Southwest served as the voice of the airlines for the KCI terminal. Once things got going Southwest, KCMO, Edgemoor got a voice in each change to the project.

pmanni1 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

dcaproducer wrote:

NK is really having trouble competing in the STL market. Nice bump in WN flights.

The meltdown they had a few months after that started killed the momentum here. I had heard they ever had more in the hopper to add then that killed it all. It also doesn't help when they schedule flights for winter/spring FLL/RSW/PHX then cancel them all a couple months out. Tough to build loyalty. They really need to get FLL/LAX back and then work from there.

Nearly every route they chose already had two entrenched carriers on it. CUN could not support 4 carriers and PNS couldn't support 2.

Not to mention PNS is also competing with the 2 airlines flying to Destin plus drivers and people choosing other vacation destinations like TPA

strangeplanes wrote:

dcaproducer wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

Commission meeting agenda tomorrow.

One interesting one to me as I a really don't know what it really means. It is weird that Southwest would be picking the consultant, so I am curious what it is for. Maybe the new baggage claim?

Approval is request of a Memorandum of Agreement (“MOA”) between the City and
Southwest Airlines Co. (“Southwest”) authorizing payments to airline consultant
identified by Southwest to the Airport, and the establishment of a Special Assessment
to be imposed on Signatory Airlines. The Contract Not-To-Exceed Amount is
$750,000

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... Agenda.pdf

New baggage claim and/or maybe more gates? It could also be WN w some consulting related to the new terminal project.

Southwest served as the voice of the airlines for the KCI terminal. Once things got going Southwest, KCMO, Edgemoor got a voice in each change to the project.

This is what I'm thinking. Plus in the days of TWA, TW pretty much made the decisions related to terminal expansion.

dcaproducer wrote:

strangeplanes wrote:

dcaproducer wrote:

New baggage claim and/or maybe more gates? It could also be WN w some consulting related to the new terminal project.

Southwest served as the voice of the airlines for the KCI terminal. Once things got going Southwest, KCMO, Edgemoor got a voice in each change to the project.

This is what I'm thinking. Plus in the days of TWA, TW pretty much made the decisions related to terminal expansion.

I would be surprised if its isn't

1. Baggage Claim
2. New Terminal - probably lean to this one, not sure they would need them for #1

I don't think they would need that to add new gates. That is a pretty easy add at this point. Would just take some paint, jetbridge, Southwest specific stuff, and maybe getting another moving walkway going.

It is just odd to me they are paying for it then putting it into the fee structure for everyone to pay back if its a WN specifically picked consultant. Why wouldn't WN be paying for it. But I guess if they are working as a voice for all airlines in respect to the terminal it makes sense. I obviously would hope it is a consultant on how to get more routes though... haha.

piedmontf284000 wrote:

750k for a new baggage claim consultation seems awfully high. While a new baggage claim in T2 is sorely needed (two carousels is just not enough especially when one seems to break down quite often) it shouldn't take that much money to figure out where to put it.

There is a large open grass area just to the west that could probably support a new baggage claim with two to three extra carousels. That or the current pickup drop-off bus zone could be utilized which would also support a new baggage claim with two to three carousels. Or get really crazy and build out both areas. In any event, unless this 750k includes engineering and architectural designs, I think it's pretty exorbitant.

Your first point is probably valid seeing that they already had one designed precovid. Not sure why they would need more consulting on it.

https://www.flystl.com/newsroom/stl-new ... -bag-claim

Although I am sure we will see a paired down version since it will be only used for maybe a decade

Commission meeting notes:

Southwest item (not very exciting)- New airport use and lease agreement is due. Airlines retaining their own consultant. STL is paying for the consultant then getting paid back with special assessment. If all airlines don't agree to special assessment, then Southwest pays it.

Peacemaker Lobster and Crab/4Hands will replace pasta house/schlafly in T2.

No signed agreement with Southwest on new baggage at T2. Bonds have not been sold for that project yet.

Checkpoint numbers for January down 4% from January 2019

2022 connecting traffic on Southwest was 34%. Anticipate it will be higher this year.

I should get into consulting. No matter what, the consultant wins.

Jshank83 wrote:

Commission meeting notes:

Southwest item (not very exciting)- New airport use and lease agreement is due. Airlines retaining their own consultant. STL is paying for the consultant then getting paid back with special assessment. If all airlines don't agree to special assessment, then Southwest pays it.

Peacemaker Lobster and Crab/4Hands will replace pasta house/schlafly in T2.

No signed agreement with Southwest on new baggage at T2. Bonds have not been sold for that project yet.

Checkpoint numbers for January down 4% from January 2019

2022 connecting traffic on Southwest was 34%. Anticipate it will be higher this year.

Peacemaker is going to add a location inside T2? OH GOD, PLEASE NO! Now people will have access to seafood to bring on board and sky pig.

TWA302 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

Commission meeting notes:

Southwest item (not very exciting)- New airport use and lease agreement is due. Airlines retaining their own consultant. STL is paying for the consultant then getting paid back with special assessment. If all airlines don't agree to special assessment, then Southwest pays it.

Peacemaker Lobster and Crab/4Hands will replace pasta house/schlafly in T2.

No signed agreement with Southwest on new baggage at T2. Bonds have not been sold for that project yet.

Checkpoint numbers for January down 4% from January 2019

2022 connecting traffic on Southwest was 34%. Anticipate it will be higher this year.

Peacemaker is going to add a location inside T2? OH GOD, PLEASE NO! Now people will have access to seafood to bring on board and sky pig.

It does seem like an interesting choice for airport food. I'll be curious to see what their menu looks like.

As someone who has priority pass and basically paid my yearly fee from getting free food from that pasta house, whether is was picking up food to take home when I arrived or getting drinks before I boarded, I am hopeful the new restaurant keeps it.

Good to see this has come up and hopefully gets straightened out. It should be a pot for any airport in the state to use.
_________________________________________________________
Lambert Airport in St. Louis wants in on state funding for international flights

JEFFERSON CITY — St. Louis Lambert International Airport is in ongoing negotiations to land more flights to international destinations and one state lawmaker wants the state to pony up some money to help subsidize that effort.

In a hearing on the state budget Thursday, Sen. Brian Williams, D-University City, said if Kansas City’s revamped airport is getting $5 million in the governor’s latest midyear spending adjustment to help it lure an international flight, St. Louis should also get some of the largesse.

“I don’t know if it’s appropriate for the rest of the state to be left out of this funding,” Williams told members of the Senate Appropriations Committee as it reviewed a $625 million spending blueprint largely targeted at giving low-paid state workers 8.7% raises.

Included in that package is the money for Kansas City, which was included in last year’s budget, but not spent because of technical issues.

Lambert airport chief Rhonda Hamm-Niebruegge agreed with Williams, saying the state should extend money for subsidies to all airports in the state.

“The state can’t give money to one and not the other,” Hamm-Niebruegge told the Post-Dispatch Thursday.

Lambert currently is subsidizing a Lufthansa flight to Frankfurt, Germany using money from the St. Louis County Port Authority and business interests organized by Greater St. Louis Inc.

The connection with Germany is seen as a way to make St. Louis a more attractive branch-office location for European companies. Bayer and Merck KGaA already have large operations in the metro area, and German seed company KWS has a research presence.

The current agreement runs through 2024.

Hamm-Niebruegge said Lambert is in constant negotiations for European carriers and state money could only help bring more flights to the region.

“We’re trying to get a clarification on the language. It should be open to all the airports in the state,” she said. “If there are state money opportunities we want to be in on it too.”

It is not uncommon for midsize airports across the nation to bankroll international flights. The Post-Dispatch previously reported that Pittsburgh struck a $3 million deal with British Airways in 2019 for flights to London, and Indianapolis landed a Delta Air Lines flight to Paris in 2018 for $5.5 million. Baltimore, Raleigh and other cities also have put up cash for European connections.

“If there is going to be state dollars… it has to be shared,” Hamm-Niebruegge added.

Dan Haug, director of Gov. Mike Parson’s budget office, didn’t shut the door on the idea, but the governor wants the midyear budget deal approved quickly so raises can be distributed to state workers beginning in March.

Adding money for Lambert could come in the state’s regular spending plan, which isn’t due to be approved until early May, Haug suggested.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... -top-story

TWA302 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

Commission meeting notes:

Southwest item (not very exciting)- New airport use and lease agreement is due. Airlines retaining their own consultant. STL is paying for the consultant then getting paid back with special assessment. If all airlines don't agree to special assessment, then Southwest pays it.

Peacemaker Lobster and Crab/4Hands will replace pasta house/schlafly in T2.

No signed agreement with Southwest on new baggage at T2. Bonds have not been sold for that project yet.

Checkpoint numbers for January down 4% from January 2019

2022 connecting traffic on Southwest was 34%. Anticipate it will be higher this year.

Peacemaker is going to add a location inside T2? OH GOD, PLEASE NO! Now people will have access to seafood to bring on board and sky pig.

Yeah, that sounds pretty repulsive. I don't know what their airport restaurant menu is going to look like, but if the stand alone menus are any indicator, it's a bunch of stuff I don't want to be smelling in the confined space of an airplane and I love seafood.

TWA302 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

Commission meeting notes:

Southwest item (not very exciting)- New airport use and lease agreement is due. Airlines retaining their own consultant. STL is paying for the consultant then getting paid back with special assessment. If all airlines don't agree to special assessment, then Southwest pays it.

Peacemaker Lobster and Crab/4Hands will replace pasta house/schlafly in T2.

No signed agreement with Southwest on new baggage at T2. Bonds have not been sold for that project yet.

Checkpoint numbers for January down 4% from January 2019

2022 connecting traffic on Southwest was 34%. Anticipate it will be higher this year.

Peacemaker is going to add a location inside T2? OH GOD, PLEASE NO! Now people will have access to seafood to bring on board and sky pig.

Not to mention it's expensive, especially for the service size.

UA updated their June schedule and DEN is finally all mainline. IAH is mostly mainline while ORD & EWR are a mix and IAD is still RJ.

pmanni1 wrote:

UA updated their June schedule and DEN is finally all mainline. IAH is mostly mainline while ORD & EWR are a mix and IAD is still RJ.

That is awesome!

I used Friday, June 9th.

10 Mainline flights from STL.

5 to DEN
2 to ORD
1 to EWR
2 to IAH

Not bad United!

Alex

atrude777 wrote:

pmanni1 wrote:

UA updated their June schedule and DEN is finally all mainline. IAH is mostly mainline while ORD & EWR are a mix and IAD is still RJ.

That is awesome!

I used Friday, June 9th.

10 Mainline flights from STL.

5 to DEN
2 to ORD
1 to EWR
2 to IAH

Not bad United!

Alex

I see 4 den 2 Ewr but still 10.

Did this just update?

Jshank83 wrote:

atrude777 wrote:

pmanni1 wrote:

UA updated their June schedule and DEN is finally all mainline. IAH is mostly mainline while ORD & EWR are a mix and IAD is still RJ.

That is awesome!

I used Friday, June 9th.

10 Mainline flights from STL.

5 to DEN
2 to ORD
1 to EWR
2 to IAH

Not bad United!

Alex

I see 4 den 2 Ewr but still 10.

Did this just update?

Folks-I miscounted the mainline flights, looks like it’s a total of 9 Mainline.

Kind of makes sense as I believe 10 is the threshold where United has to in source the entire station. Don’t quote me on that.

Jshank83 and I had to exchange some messages to make sure we were counting right

Agreed on 4 mainline to DEN, 1 to EWR and 2 to ORD and 2 to IAH.

Alex

atrude777 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

atrude777 wrote:

That is awesome!

I used Friday, June 9th.

10 Mainline flights from STL.

5 to DEN
2 to ORD
1 to EWR
2 to IAH

Not bad United!

Alex

I see 4 den 2 Ewr but still 10.

Did this just update?

Folks-I miscounted the mainline flights, looks like it’s a total of 9 Mainline.

Kind of makes sense as I believe 10 is the threshold where United has to in source the entire station. Don’t quote me on that.

Jshank83 and I had to exchange some messages to make sure we were counting right

Agreed on 4 mainline to DEN, 1 to EWR and 2 to ORD and 2 to IAH.

Alex

What does insource a station mean? Are they doing contractors not direct hires now?

Looks like about a 55% jump in seats over last June. Just need SFO back

Jshank83 wrote:

atrude777 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

I see 4 den 2 Ewr but still 10.

Did this just update?

Folks-I miscounted the mainline flights, looks like it’s a total of 9 Mainline.

Kind of makes sense as I believe 10 is the threshold where United has to in source the entire station. Don’t quote me on that.

Jshank83 and I had to exchange some messages to make sure we were counting right

Agreed on 4 mainline to DEN, 1 to EWR and 2 to ORD and 2 to IAH.

Alex

What does insource a station mean? Are they doing contractors not direct hires now?

Looks like about a 55% jump in seats over last June. Just need SFO back

Above the wing (passenger service, check-in, baggage service office) remains United [A scale] in-house PCE "public contact employees".
Below the wing is a vendor and believe at one time it was ATS (which started as a subsidiary of TWA) but perhaps it has transitioned to United Ground Express which is UALs relatively new wholly owned in-house low wage vendor.

Up until late 2009 UA was in-house below the wing despite it being an overwhelmingly Trans States & Go Jet operation, however in early 2010 UA added SFO service 1x 319 and the CBA language at time required in-house handling for even a single year round mainline departure so within a matter of month the station went back to UAL IAM in-house. As a reminder, this was in the time AA ended SFO service and there was no non-stop WN to SFO or other co-terminals.

Believe below the wing for UA STL got contracted out most recently in the circa 2015 timeframe when the initial joint collective bargaining agreement for UA/CO got ratified which protected primarily hubs and certain large line stations. CO had exclusively Continental Express ERJ-145 Express Jet service to STL leading up to the merger in 09/2010 yet still had both above the wing and below the wing in-house and both groups were unrepresented [although below the wing had voted for the Teamsters and initial agreement was not yet in place].

atrude777 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

atrude777 wrote:

That is awesome!

I used Friday, June 9th.

10 Mainline flights from STL.

5 to DEN
2 to ORD
1 to EWR
2 to IAH

Not bad United!

Alex

I see 4 den 2 Ewr but still 10.

Did this just update?

Folks-I miscounted the mainline flights, looks like it’s a total of 9 Mainline.

Kind of makes sense as I believe 10 is the threshold where United has to in source the entire station. Don’t quote me on that.

Jshank83 and I had to exchange some messages to make sure we were counting right

Agreed on 4 mainline to DEN, 1 to EWR and 2 to ORD and 2 to IAH.

Alex

From the IAM 141 CBA:

35 UAL/UAX combined:

Except as a result of a merger or acquisition of another air carrier, or as provided by the Successorship Transactions provisions of this Agreement (Article 10.Q), should the Company operate more than 35 regularly scheduled jet departures (mainline and UAX) per day, averaged over a period of nine consecutive months, in any airport location where Fleet Service work is contracted out, the Company will insource such work and staff the location with IAM Fleet Service employees within 180 days of the date of measurement. The Company may contract out Fleet Service work at any location that was insourced under this paragraph in the event that location falls below 35 regularly scheduled jet departures (mainline and UAX) per day, averaged over a period of nine consecutive months, after notice to the Union and subject to the provisions of paragraph 3, below.

ARTICLE 2: JOB SECURITY 1. Contracting Out of Core Work
a. The Company will not contract out to outside vendor(s) the “core” work currently performed by Fleet Service employees at the following airports: Denver (DEN), Newark (EWR), Washington Dulles (IAD), Houston (IAH), Los Angeles (LAX), Chicago (ORD), San Francisco (SFO), Austin (AUS), Boston (BOS), Baltimore-Washington (BWI), Cleveland (CLE), Washington National (DCA), Dallas-Fort Worth (DFW), Fort Lauderdale (FLL), Guam (GUM), Honolulu (HNL), New York Kennedy (JFK), Las Vegas (LAS), New York LaGuardia (LGA), Orlando (MCO), Minneapolis (MSP), New Orleans (MSY), Portland (PDX), Philadelphia (PHL), Phoenix (PHX), Pittsburgh (PIT), San Diego (SAN), Seattle (SEA), Orange County (SNA), and Tampa (TPA).

https://iam141.org/wp-content/uploads/2 ... t_2016.pdf

As STL gains gauge it will lose frequency.

Jshank83 wrote:

What does insource a station mean? Are they doing contractors not direct hires now?

Looks like about a 55% jump in seats over last June. Just need SFO back

Insource means to bring an entire station back to the airline employees.

STL is split for United.

ATW CS Agents for STL are United Employees.

BTW Ramp Agents for STL for United are ATS as N983AN mentioned.

After a certain threshold, as N983AN went over, United would be forced to bring all employees "under house" meaning all United Employees. Ramp in STL has been outsourced since the UA/CO merger.

N983AN wrote:

Above the wing (passenger service, check-in, baggage service office) remains United [A scale] in-house PCE "public contact employees".
Below the wing is a vendor and believe at one time it was ATS (which started as a subsidiary of TWA) but perhaps it has transitioned to United Ground Express which is UALs relatively new wholly owned in-house low wage vendor.

You were correct, STL Ramp is still ATS.

UGE cannot ground handle in a station that also sees United Ground Handling for ATW/BTW. Meaning as long as STL has UA for ATW, UGE cannot do ramp, it has to go to another company.

Thanks for the explanation, so it is now the number of flights a day, and not necessarily mainline. Don't see STL ever growing over 35 to the point where United would insource the Ramp Agents too.

Alex

^agree with the getting over 35

June 2019 they were 29 and that was with 4 mainline (2 were SFO).
June 2022 was 19 total 2 mainline
June 2023 is scheduled for 20 total 9 mainline

It would be easy enough to just keep up gauging to keep it under 35 if they ever actually got close, which like you say is doubtful

In 2015 UAL filed a WARN with state of MO covering 50 employees at STL and 60 at MCI for fleet service err “baggage handlers”:

https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/mor ... as-it.html

Regardless glad there is more mainline and seems majority of the UAX is G7 CRJ-550 along with E175.

N983AN wrote:

In 2015 UAL filed a WARN with state of MO covering 50 employees at STL and 60 at MCI for fleet service err “baggage handlers”:

https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/mor ... as-it.html

Regardless glad there is more mainline and seems majority of the UAX is G7 CRJ-550 along with E175.

Hoping we are to the end of E145/CRJ200s

October loads

AS
SEA 89%

AA
PHX 89.5%
LAX 89%
PHL 88%
MIA 87.5%
CLT 87.5%
DFW 86%
DCA 84%
ORD 83.5%
BOS 72.5%
AUS 71.5%
LGA 69%

DL
ATL 85.5%
DTW 85.5%
MSP 84%
SLC 82.5%
LGA 75%

F9
LAS 81.5%
MCO 78.5%
DEN 76%
ATL 58.5%

NK
LAS 81%
MCO 78.5%

UA
DEN 91%
IAH 88%
ORD 88%
IAD 83%
EWR 75.5%

WN
SMF 94%
JAX 94%
LAX 93.5%
LAS 92.5%
PHL 92.5%
TPA 92.5%
SNA 92% (97.5% inbound)
RDU 92%
PDX 91.5%
SAN 91.5%
SJC 91%
LGB 91%
VPS 91%
DEN 91%
FLL 90.5%
SEA 90%
PIT 89.5%
MCO 89.5%
PHX 89%
DTW 89%
CLE 89%
CLT 88.5%
PNS 88%
SRQ 87.5%
MKE 87.5%
DAL 87%
OAK 86.5%
MSP 85.5%
AUS 85%
OMA 84.5%
RSW 84%
MSY 84%
MIA 83.5%
CMH 83.5%
BWI 83.5%
OKC 83%
BOS 83%
BNA 82.5%
ATL 82%
SAT 81.5%
MCI 81.5%
CHS 81.5%
HOU 80.5%
DCA 80.5%
ECP 80%
MYR 79.5%
LGA 78.5%
DSM 74%
MDW 72.5%
LIT 71%
ICT 71%
TUL 69%

G4 (BLV)
VPS 88%
SFB 85.5%
LAS 82%
PIE 82%
SRQ 80%
PGD 68.5%

well, moral of the story above - if you're flying Southwest out of St Louis - hope to hell you're in the A boarding group.

MidAmerica St. Louis Airport today announced a new record of 163,210 passengers served in 2022, continuing a trend of positive passenger growth. The 2022 passenger count exceeds that of 2021 by nearly 2,000.

https://flymidamerica.com/passenger-tra ... rs-served/

A couple of WN frequency increases on the update: STL-CLE goes to 3x daily and SJC goes up to 5x weekly.

This is kind of hard to read but this should be a record for Southwest flights at STL. I think its the first time actually over 130 on any day, it had been scheduled but pulled back due to MAX/COVID issues.

September update
Fri 123
Sat 91
Sun 130

Below are flights in the new schedule. Then change from last extension, then change from Sept 2019. Fri/Sat/Sun


City Fri Sat Sun ........ change from July/Aug......... change Sept 2019
Atlanta GA (ATL) 4 2 4 …….. 0 0 0 …….. 0 -1 -1
Austin TX (AUS) 3 3 3 …….. 0 2 0 …….. 1 2 1
Baltimore MD (BWI) 4 4 4 …….. 0 0 0 …….. 0 0 -1
Boston MA (BOS) 3 2 3 …….. 0 -1 0 …….. -1 0 -1
Cancun MX (CUN) 0 1 0 …….. -1 -1 -1 …….. 0 0 0
Charleston SC (CHS) 0 0 1 …….. 0 -1 0 …….. 0 0 1
Charlotte, NC (CLT) 1 1 1 …….. 0 0 0 …….. 1 1 1
Chicago IL (MDW) 8 4 7 …….. 0 1 -1 …….. 1 -1 0
Cleveland OH (CLE) 3 1 2 …….. 1 0 0 …….. 0 0 -1
Columbus OH (CMH) 2 1 2 …….. 0 1 1 …….. 0 0 0
Dallas TX (DAL) 7 4 7 …….. 1 0 1 …….. 1 0 0
Denver CO (DEN) 7 6 7 …….. 0 0 0 …….. 1 1 0
Des Moines IA (DSM) 2 1 2 …….. 0 0 0 …….. 0 0 0
Destin/Fort Walton Beach, FL (VPS) 0 1 1 …….. 0 0 0 …….. 0 1 1
Detroit MI (DTW) 2 1 2 …….. 0 0 1 …….. -1 0 0
Ft. Lauderdale FL (FLL) 1 1 3 …….. 0 -2 0 …….. -1 0 1
Ft. Myers FL (RSW) 1 1 2 …….. -1 -2 1 …….. 0 0 1
Hartford CT (BDL) 0 0 0 …….. 0 0 0 …….. -1 -1 -1
Houston TX (HOU) 5 3 5 …….. 1 0 0 …….. 1 0 1
Jacksonville, FL (JAX) 1 1 1 …….. 0 -1 0 …….. 1 1 1
Kansas City MO (MCI) 4 2 3 …….. 0 1 0 …….. 1 0 1
Las Vegas NV (LAS) 5 4 5 …….. 0 0 1 …….. 1 1 0
Little Rock AR (LIT) 2 1 2 …….. 0 0 0 …….. 0 0 0
Long Beach, CA (LGB) 1 1 1 …….. 0 0 0 …….. 1 1 1
Los Angeles CA (LAX) 3 2 2 …….. 0 0 0 …….. 0 0 -1
Miami, FL (MIA) 0 1 1 …….. 0 -1 0 …….. 0 1 1
Milwaukee WI (MKE) 3 1 2 …….. 1 0 0 …….. 1 0 0
Minneapolis MN (MSP) 2 1 2 …….. 0 0 1 …….. -1 0 0
Montego Bay JAM (MBJ) 0 0 0 …….. 0 -1 -1 …….. 0 0 0
Myrtle Beach, SC (MYR) 0 1 1 …….. 0 0 0 …….. 0 1 1
Nashville TN (BNA) 4 3 4 …….. 0 1 1 …….. 0 2 2
New Orleans LA (MSY) 2 1 3 …….. 0 0 0 …….. 0 -1 -1
New York NY (LGA) 5 2 4 …….. 0 0 0 …….. 2 0 1
Newark NJ (EWR) 0 0 0 …….. 0 0 0 …….. -2 -1 -2
Oakland CA (OAK) 1 1 1 …….. 0 0 0 …….. 0 0 0
Oklahoma City OK (OKC) 2 1 2 …….. 0 0 0 …….. 0 0 0
Omaha NE (OMA) 3 2 3 …….. 1 1 0 …….. 0 1 0
Orange County/Santa Ana, CA (SNA) 0 0 0 …….. 0 0 0 …….. 0 0 0
Orlando FL (MCO) 5 5 6 …….. 1 1 0 …….. 1 2 2
Panama City FL (ECP) 1 2 1 …….. 0 -2 -1 …….. 1 1 0
Pensacola FL (PNS) 0 1 1 …….. -1 -1 -1 …….. 0 0 1
Philadelphia PA (PHL) 3 1 2 …….. 1 0 0 …….. 0 -1 0
Phoenix AZ (PHX) 4 4 4 …….. 1 0 0 …….. 1 2 2
Pittsburgh PA (PIT) 1 1 2 …….. 0 0 1 …….. 0 0 0
Portland OR (PDX) 0 0 1 …….. 0 -1 1 …….. -1 -1 0
Punta Cana DR (PUJ) 0 0 0 …….. 0 -1 0 …….. 0 0 0
Raleigh NC (RDU) 2 1 2 …….. 1 -1 0 …….. 0 -1 0
Sacramento (SMF) 1 1 1 …….. 0 0 0 …….. 0 0 0
Salt Lake City, UT (SLC) 0 0 0 …….. 0 -2 0 …….. 0 0 0
San Antonio TX (SAT) 2 1 1 …….. 1 0 0 …….. 0 0 -1
San Deigo CA (SAN) 1 2 2 …….. 0 0 0 …….. -1 1 0
San Jose (SJC) 1 1 1 …….. 1 0 1 …….. 0 0 0
San Francisco CA (SFO) 0 0 0 …….. 0 0 0 …….. -1 -1 -1
San Juan, PR (SJU) 0 0 0 …….. 0 -1 0 …….. 0 0 0
Sarasota/Bradenton, FL (SRQ) 1 1 1 …….. 0 0 0 …….. 1 1 1
Seattle WA (SEA) 0 0 1 …….. 0 -1 1 …….. -1 -1 0
Tampa FL (TPA) 2 3 3 …….. 0 -1 -1 …….. 0 0 1
Tulsa OK (TUL) 2 1 2 …….. 0 0 0 …….. 0 0 0
Washington DC (DCA) 4 3 4 …….. 0 0 0 …….. 0 -1 0
Wichita KS (ICT) 2 1 2 …….. 0 0 0 …….. 0 0 0

123 91 130 …….. 8 -13 5 …….. 6 9 11

August International loads

WN MBJ 95%
WN CUN 94%
LH FRA 90.5%
Viva Aerobus/Apple PVR 80%
AC YYZ 76%
Viva Aerobus/Apple SJD 69.5% (inbound 94%, outbound probably suppressed by last flight of season being pretty empty)
F9 PUJ 69% (inbound 95.5%, outbound probably suppressed by last flights of season being pretty empty)
F9 CUN 67.5%
Viva Aerobus/Apple HUX 58%(inbound 73%, outbound probably suppressed of last flight as season being pretty empty)

Gulfstream500 wrote:

I kinda wonder if Breeze will add some flights out of STL soon, as they could always do STL-RIC/ORF/CHS/BDL

WN would likely make competitive moves against MX if MX adds service to the STL market, especially as WN had previously operated daily nonstop service to CHS/BDL from STL.

WN would also have connecting feed from some cities that do not currently have MX service such as AUS, DAL, DSM, HOU, MCI, MSP, OKC, OMA, SAT, and ICT to support the return of daily WN STL-CHS/BDL/ORF nonstop service and the addition of WN STL-RIC nonstop service.

BLV November numbers

Passengers
-16.59% vs NOV22
+1.53% Year to Date

Loads
AZA 92.5%
SFB 91%
PIE 90.5%
PGD 88.5%
SRQ 84%
VPS 83.5%
LAS 67.5% - that number came out of nowhere.

AA's cut for May of STL-AUS rolled through mid August.