pmanni1 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

AA's cut for May of STL-AUS rolled through mid August.

AUS is not necessarily gangbusters like everyone thinks and too much competition from WN. MCI is still hanging on with 1 flight per day downgraded to a cr7. It's almost like what's the point?

I suspect MCI will get cut at some point TBH. Between AA and DL, it seems like they are so bullish on adding capacity and then it is cut within 12 months.

AA adding a nonstop to SDF for the derby runs both ways on May 4th and 7th

Jshank83 wrote:

AA adding a nonstop to SDF for the derby runs both ways on May 4th and 7th

Dub it the "Louis Link" or "64 Shuttle".

Jshank83 wrote:

AA adding a nonstop to SDF for the derby runs both ways on May 4th and 7th

$621 R/T basic economy. Kind of steep but I am sure there will be takers. E175

TWA302 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

AA adding a nonstop to SDF for the derby runs both ways on May 4th and 7th

$621 R/T basic economy. Kind of steep but I am sure there will be takers. E175

If you happen to want to fly to STL for the weekend from SDF it’s $231. Not bad

I wish Southwest would consider bringing back the SDF flight. When was the last time they flew that route?

stl1326 wrote:

I wish Southwest would consider bringing back the SDF flight. When was the last time they flew that route?

WN last operated SDF-STL in January 2014, which was more than 9 years ago.

There would also be a few more connecting opportunities available through STL on WN that weren't there 10 years ago to places such as DSM/LIT/ICT to support the return of WN STL-SDF nonstop service.

TWA302 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

AA adding a nonstop to SDF for the derby runs both ways on May 4th and 7th

$621 R/T basic economy. Kind of steep but I am sure there will be takers. E175

It’s barely a 4 hour drive…

I guess some people will pay it.

STLflyer wrote:

TWA302 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

AA adding a nonstop to SDF for the derby runs both ways on May 4th and 7th

$621 R/T basic economy. Kind of steep but I am sure there will be takers. E175

It’s barely a 4 hour drive…

I guess some people will pay it.

Depending on where you are staying and what you are doing at the Derby, having a car in Louisville Derby weekend can be kind of a pain. So there may be value in that regard.

March Frequencies
2020 numbers are based of scheduled amount before covid cut them back.

Flights per week
2023 (2022) 2020
WN 713 (642) 767
AA 203 (243) 254
DL 146 (141) 193
UA 135 (122) 198
F9 42 (35) 29
G4 25 (29) 31
NK 14 (51) XX
AS 11 (7) 7
AC 7 (0) 21

Total STL 1368 (1343) 1619

Seats on Monday
2023 seats (vs 2022) vs 2020
AA 3582 (-20.2%) -13.4%
DL 2512 (-1.18%) -27.36%
UA 1354 (+7.46%) -13.01%

Notes:

STL back over 200 a day peak
WN - VPS/MBJ/PUJ/ECP/PNS/SJC/SNA/SMF all back. 10 flight a day bump over last year
AA - Bump up from last month but still down from last year and 2020
UA - Only Legacy up seats over last year.
G4 - JAX is back

Spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Funny how STL is the only non-hub/fc that got a SDF flight. Wonder why that is...

Air Canada updated their summer schedule. They will be running 2x daily CRJ900s.

That should firm up the summer international flying barring a change from LH.

Summer International flights per week (plus Puerto Rico)

Cancun 15
Toronto 14
Montego Bay 5
Punta Cana 5
Frankfurt 3
San Juan, PR 1

stl07 wrote:

Funny how STL is the only non-hub/fc that got a SDF flight. Wonder why that is...

SDF is a Republic Base, and STL-SDF is being operated by a Republic 175.

I am guessing that the plane may have had to fly there as a ferry anyway to rotate planes in and out, so why not make some cash doing it for that time period?

Not saying it's the only reason but it won't hurt!

Alex

pmanni1 wrote:

Was reading the 2022 State of STL Report and noticed "The Lufthansa service to Frankfurt attracted a great deal of industry interest and certainly won the attention of other airlines" I wonder if this is indirectly saying that there's more to come?

I would see LH adding more frequency in the future. I am sure other airlines like BA are wishing they had jumped in years before this. We've chatted on here about EI being an option. I could see that but nothing else stands out.

Speaking of London, has anyone announced any special charters from STL to LHR for the Cardinals-Cubs games? Could easily fill a plane or two with fans traveling for the game. I'm wondering if I jumped the gun by booking flights on AA...

STL/BLV Loads for November

Combined both ways

AS
SEA 87%

AA
PHX 87.5%
CLT 87%
LAX 85.5%
PHL 83.5%
DFW 83%
MIA 81.5%
BOS 77.5%
DCA 75%
ORD 74.5%
AUS 72.5%
LGA 64.5%

DL
ATL 81.5%
DTW 80%
SLC 78%
MSP 76.5%
LGA 73.5%

F9
MCO 80%
DEN 75.5%
LAS 72%
TPA 55% - First month
ATL 39%

NK
LAS 78%
MCO 74%

UA
DEN 87.5%
IAH 87%
ORD 85.5%
IAD 83%
EWR 71.5%

WN
ECP 95%
VPS 93.5% -one flight
RDU 92.5%
SNA 92%
LAX 91%
SAN 91%
TPA 91%
SMF 90.5%
PHL 90%
LAS 89.5%
PHX 89.5%
SJC 89%
LGB 89%
FLL 89%
PDX 88.5%
MCO 88.5%
JAX 87.5%
PIT 87%
DEN 85.5%
SEA 85%
BDL 85% - first month back
MSY 84.5%
SAT 84.5%
MIA 84.5%
PNS 84%
OKC 83.5%
SLC 83%
BOS 82%
ATL 81.5%
DTW 81.5%
BWI 81%
CMH 81%
OMA 81%
HOU 80.5%
DAL 80.5%
OAK 80.5%
CHS 80.5%
CLT 80%
CLE 80%
BNA 80%
SRQ 79.5%
RSW 79%
SJU 78.5%
DCA 77%
MKE 75.5%
AUS 75%
MCI 75%
DSM 72.5%
ICT 72%
LGA 72%
MYR 71% - one flight
MSP 70%
LIT 68.5%
MDW 67.5%
TUL 65%

G4 - BLV
AZA 92.5%
SFB 91%
PIE 90.5%
PGD 88.5%
SRQ 84%
VPS 83.5%
LAS 67.5%

pmanni1 wrote:

TWA302 wrote:

pmanni1 wrote:

Was reading the 2022 State of STL Report and noticed "The Lufthansa service to Frankfurt attracted a great deal of industry interest and certainly won the attention of other airlines" I wonder if this is indirectly saying that there's more to come?

I would see LH adding more frequency in the future. I am sure other airlines like BA are wishing they had jumped in years before this. We've chatted on here about EI being an option. I could see that but nothing else stands out.

London is the #1 European destination from STL. I think FRA was 4th behind CDG & AMS. Makes perfect sense to still go after the #1 destination.

Right, because prior to FRA many people, including myself used LHR as a gateway in Europe. Now we have a portal that allows it. Don't get me wrong, a direct to LHR would be nice, but there will be a decline on the LH route. Have done the STL-FRA route three times now, and the vast majority of people we talked to had connections. Give us more, but let's not go too far too fast. Now, for destinations are you talking final destination?

STLflyer wrote:

Speaking of London, has anyone announced any special charters from STL to LHR for the Cardinals-Cubs games? Could easily fill a plane or two with fans traveling for the game. I'm wondering if I jumped the gun by booking flights on AA...

I know the Cardinals have a charter, as my parents who have been STH for eons, have been contacted about going on the trip. I would surmise that AA will do a few charters, but who knows.

Jshank83 wrote:

STL/BLV Loads for November

Combined both ways



WN
ECP 95%

Does NOT surprise me one bit. With the horrible drive to get there, this sucker is a great option.

TWA302 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

STL/BLV Loads for November

Combined both ways



WN
ECP 95%

Does NOT surprise me one bit. With the horrible drive to get there, this sucker is a great option.

Would love to see it go year round at least on the weekend. If BLV-VPS is year round, no reason ECP can’t be.

TWA302 wrote:

pmanni1 wrote:

TWA302 wrote:

I would see LH adding more frequency in the future. I am sure other airlines like BA are wishing they had jumped in years before this. We've chatted on here about EI being an option. I could see that but nothing else stands out.

London is the #1 European destination from STL. I think FRA was 4th behind CDG & AMS. Makes perfect sense to still go after the #1 destination.

Right, because prior to FRA many people, including myself used LHR as a gateway in Europe. Now we have a portal that allows it. Don't get me wrong, a direct to LHR would be nice, but there will be a decline on the LH route. Have done the STL-FRA route three times now, and the vast majority of people we talked to had connections. Give us more, but let's not go too far too fast. Now, for destinations are you talking final destination?

I really think you go a LCC type. Aer Lingus would be my pick. Less overlap. If we got BA first then I would have wanted condor or Eurowings discover next.

After seeing the new MCI airport, it is even more imperative that STL get in gear and build the new concourses. MCI is amazing and gorgeous. Saint Louis likes to plan and study things to death. Meanwhile, down I-70 it’s already done. Let’s fast track this faster than we are.

Sorry. Dupe.

January numbers for STL

Up 26% vs JAN2022

Down 12.3% vs JAN 2019

Passengers last 12 months: 13,863,969 - February update should push this over 14 mil

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... rt-Jan.pdf

Jshank83 wrote:

January numbers for STL

Up 26% vs JAN2022

Down 12.3% vs JAN 2019

Passengers last 12 months: 13,863,969 - February update should push this over 14 mil

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... rt-Jan.pdf

I think this March is going to be insane. Already seeing more people on the least flown WN routes this month. Like to see the bounce back continue!

TWA302 wrote:

pmanni1 wrote:

TWA302 wrote:

I would see LH adding more frequency in the future. I am sure other airlines like BA are wishing they had jumped in years before this. We've chatted on here about EI being an option. I could see that but nothing else stands out.

London is the #1 European destination from STL. I think FRA was 4th behind CDG & AMS. Makes perfect sense to still go after the #1 destination.

Right, because prior to FRA many people, including myself used LHR as a gateway in Europe. Now we have a portal that allows it. Don't get me wrong, a direct to LHR would be nice, but there will be a decline on the LH route. Have done the STL-FRA route three times now, and the vast majority of people we talked to had connections. Give us more, but let's not go too far too fast. Now, for destinations are you talking final destination?

Yeah, the STL-Europe market isn't *that* big and you'd have little to no connecting traffic through STL. With another (legacy) airline competing against LH, it'd be a bloodbath.

There was a rumor going around a couple months back that another Euro airline was going to announce service to STL, but that has yet to come to fruition.

Sun Country has started adding in the extra segment flights for when they have MLS soccer charters. Basically means they add extra segments for when they fly the plane down from MSP and back to MSP. So selling MSP-STL - then Soccer team flies - then sell STL-MSP so they aren't flying empty legs.

Flights start in in April. Some Fridays have 2 flights from MSP. Some Sunday flights added.

Jshank83 wrote:

Sun Country has started adding in the extra segment flights for when they have MLS soccer charters. Basically means they add extra segments for when they fly the plane down from MSP and back to MSP. So selling MSP-STL - then Soccer team flies - then sell STL-MSP so they aren't flying empty legs.

Flights start in in April. Some Fridays have 2 flights from MSP. Some Sunday flights added.

Makes good sense business wise... I wonder if they are charing MLS less because of this (the absence of a true deadhead) or if they are just trying to make even more profit lol

pmanni1 wrote:

A few frequency increases on the WN update:
BNA & HOU go to 5 daily.
SAN goes to 2 daily.
MIA goes from weekends to daily.

Might be more out there than those.

Houston was 5x in the last update.
CUN back to daily
PDX/SEA drop off

But I am going to go thru it now and see where we are.

5 daily to Nashville.
wowzers on that one.

pmanni1 wrote:

A few frequency increases on the WN update:
BNA & HOU go to 5 daily.
SAN goes to 2 daily.
MIA goes from weekends to daily.

Might be more out there than those.

I realize this will probably be compared to 2019...

However when I worked for Southwest in STL in 2007, we had 6 daily STL-HOU, even after the Wright Amendment went away for Missouri.

Glad to see SAN go double daily, MIA, I thought was already daily!

Agree with stlgph, STL-BNA 5 Daily?! Holy Moley...

Alex

I count 129 daily M-F. Haven’t checked the Sunday schedule yet. This might be a record for Southwest at STL.

stl1326 wrote:

I count 129 daily M-F. Haven’t checked the Sunday schedule yet. This might be a record for Southwest at STL.

I got
Fri 129 - I think Tues/Wed is lower
Sat 98
Sun 128

but I am double checking sunday at the moment.

EDIT: added in 2019 October number

October WN schedule

Will be a record month if it holds

Day Oct23 Sept23 Oct22 Oct19
Fri 129 123 104 118
Sat 98 91 83 80
Sun 128 129 111 124

I don't think Tues/Wed match Friday but because I am not going to go thru them right now for the sake of this we will say they are. Might drop a percent of two with them out but I am guessing it won't be a huge drop off.

Oct19 - 794 flights a week
Oct22 - 714 flights a week
Oct23 - 871 flights a week
22% increase vs Oct22
9.7% vs Oct19

Changes vs Sept23
Fri
+1
CUN/FLL/MIA/BNA/SAN/TPA/RSW
-1
DAL

Sat
+2
FLL
+1
CHS/MDW/HOU/MCI/MIA/PNS/PHL
-1
AUS/SJC

Sun
+1
CUN
-1
PDX/SEA

Flights per day
City Friday Saturday Sunday
Atlanta GA (ATL) 4 2 4
Austin TX (AUS) 3 2 3
Baltimore MD (BWI) 4 4 4
Boston MA (BOS) 3 2 3
Cancun MX (CUN) 1 1 1
Charleston SC (CHS) 0 1 1
Charlotte NC (CLT) 1 1 1
Chicago IL (MDW) 8 5 7
Cleveland OH (CLE) 3 1 2
Columbus OH (CMH) 2 1 2
Dallas TX (DAL) 6 4 7
Denver CO (DEN) 7 6 7
Des Moines IA (DSM) 2 1 2
Destin FL (VPS) 0 1 1
Detroit MI (DTW) 2 1 2
Ft. Lauderdale FL (FLL) 2 3 3
Ft. Myers FL (RSW) 2 1 2
Hartford, CT (BDL)
Houston TX (HOU) 5 4 5
Jacksonville FL (JAX) 1 1 1
Kansas City MO (MCI) 4 3 3
Las Vegas NV (LAS) 5 4 5
Little Rock AR (LIT) 2 1 2
Long Beach CA (LGB) 1 1 1
Los Angeles CA (LAX) 3 2 2
Miami FL (MIA) 1 2 1
Milwaukee WI (MKE) 3 1 2
Minneapolis MN (MSP) 2 1 1
Montego Bay JAM (MBJ)
Myrtle Beach SC (MYR) 0 1 1
Nashville TN (BNA) 5 3 4
New Orleans LA (MSY) 2 1 3
New York NY (LGA) 5 2 4
Oakland CA (OAK) 1 1 1
Oklahoma City OK (OKC) 2 1 2
Omaha NE (OMA) 3 2 3
Orange County CA (SNA)
Orlando FL (MCO) 5 5 6
Panama City FL (ECP) 1 2 1
Pensacola FL (PNS) 0 2 1
Philadelphia PA (PHL) 3 2 2
Pittsburgh PA (PIT) 1 1 2
Phoenix AZ (PHX) 4 4 4
Portland OR (PDX)
Punta Cana DR (PUJ)
Raleigh NC (RDU) 2 1 2
Sacramento (SMF) 1 1 1
Salt Lake City (SLC)
San Antonio TX (SAT) 2 1 1
San Deigo CA (SAN) 2 2 2
San Jose CA (SJC) 1 0 1
San Juan PR (SJU)
Sarasota FL (SRQ) 1 1 1
Seattle WA (SEA)
Tampa FL (TPA) 3 3 3
Tulsa OK (TUL) 2 1 2
Washington DC (DCA) 4 3 4
Wichita KS (ICT) 2 1 2
Total 129 98 128

September International LFs

WN MBJ 90.5%
LH FRA 89.5%
WN CUN 89.5%
AC YYZ 78.5%
F9 CUN 75.5%

Discuss. Mark is a great guy, but this is a poor take and not in his wheelhouse.

https://twitter.com/MantovaniMark/status/1633658429473447938?s=20

stlgph wrote:

5 daily to Nashville.
wowzers on that one.

Connections for sure. I get BNA as a destination, but there are a ton of flights that I have to connect from BNA when traveling from the East.

TWA302 wrote:

stlgph wrote:

5 daily to Nashville.
wowzers on that one.

Connections for sure. I get BNA as a destination, but there are a ton of flights that I have to connect from BNA when traveling from the East.

Plus they connect thru here also so there are connections on both ends.

Getting up now 1 away from that 130 flight a day mark really helps feed connections and just fuels growth. I am hopeful we start seeing new destinations pop up again now that we have most of our frequency back from precovid

Totally random, but I love the piano that is at the airport under Terminal 1. How long has that been there? It's a beautiful instrument and was in-tune! I wish my home airport had a public piano.

TWA302 wrote:

Discuss. Mark is a great guy, but this is a poor take and not in his wheelhouse.

https://twitter.com/MantovaniMark/status/1633658429473447938?s=20

I think it is a take some are saying to try to get the new terminal here moving faster/drumming up support for it.
I also am sure there are people in KC that "hope" to take flights from here.

The same line was said by one of the commissioners in the airport meeting last week. Rhonda kind of brushed it off but the commissioner kept coming back to it.

They won't take flights from us we already have, as we can see by our continued growth trajectory. Could they possibly get a few flights we would have gotten and slow us down a bit, sure, I can buy that argument.

plinth857 wrote:

Totally random, but I love the piano that is at the airport under Terminal 1. How long has that been there? It's a beautiful instrument and was in-tune! I wish my home airport had a public piano.

Been there for a while! There are pictures of travelers playing on it before the eclipse in 2016

TWA302 wrote:

Discuss. Mark is a great guy, but this is a poor take and not in his wheelhouse.

https://twitter.com/MantovaniMark/status/1633658429473447938?s=20

I live in KC. I’ve never heard anyone leverage this argument (build new and we will “take” flights from STL). If it people are using this argument, they don’t understand airline and airport economics.

I’m sure it is just something to get people fired up, that’s all. As an AvGeek, I love that STL has reinvented itself since the TWA days. I do miss the 10/day (I think) non stops between KC and STL on TWA

blhp68 wrote:

TWA302 wrote:

Discuss. Mark is a great guy, but this is a poor take and not in his wheelhouse.

https://twitter.com/MantovaniMark/status/1633658429473447938?s=20

I live in KC. I’ve never heard anyone leverage this argument (build new and we will “take” flights from STL). If it people are using this argument, they don’t understand airline and airport economics.

I’m sure it is just something to get people fired up, that’s all. As an AvGeek, I love that STL has reinvented itself since the TWA days. I do miss the 10/day (I think) non stops between KC and STL on TWA

If they were truly intend on building a STL style operation at MCI, they would’ve built more than 39 gates. MCI would be somewhat duplicating DEN if it got to 150+ flights.