St. Louis Aviation - 2023

dcaproducer · Thu Apr 06, 2023 12:05 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Commission meeting notes

For Southwest Baggage claim expansion

Special facility bonds 60 mil. Airport sells bonds. Southwest pays full cost

Pays any increased rent that occurs. If southwest ceases to occupy they will pay it off in 18 months (Ie if it isn't paid off when they move to new terminal).

Larger footprint 11K sq ft.

More back of house operations.

30% design review due next Friday.

Timeline: Ready for occupation late 2025. Back of the house likely sooner.

No new rendering shown...

The idea that Southwest knows this is going to be in use less than a decade and all the way to the top level said they want this, and an expanded version from the original is great to see.

Link to original design back in 2018. This one is will be 500 sq ft bigger than the original design and cost about 3x as much (I think a lot of that is due to increases costs)
https://www.flystl.com/newsroom/stl-new ... -bag-claim

This also makes me wonder if WN would need additional gates in the not to distant future.

Jshank83 · Thu Apr 06, 2023 2:32 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Commission meeting notes

For Southwest Baggage claim expansion

Special facility bonds 60 mil. Airport sells bonds. Southwest pays full cost

Pays any increased rent that occurs. If southwest ceases to occupy they will pay it off in 18 months (Ie if it isn't paid off when they move to new terminal).

Larger footprint 11K sq ft.

More back of house operations.

30% design review due next Friday.

Timeline: Ready for occupation late 2025. Back of the house likely sooner.

No new rendering shown...

The idea that Southwest knows this is going to be in use less than a decade and all the way to the top level said they want this, and an expanded version from the original is great to see.

Link to original design back in 2018. This one is will be 500 sq ft bigger than the original design and cost about 3x as much (I think a lot of that is due to increases costs)
https://www.flystl.com/newsroom/stl-new ... -bag-claim

This also makes me wonder if WN would need additional gates in the not to distant future.

Wouldn't take much to get them online. I was in D a couple months ago. The next section already has a makeshift wall up. It already has the tile and I think the carpet walls had been changed also. Just needs some paint to change some red to blue to match the E gates. It also has retail/restaurant space, with a bar, which would be nice to have down there. Throw in a fast casual or something.

I had heard late 2019 they were getting ready to put in more gates. Someone told me they had seen the plans, I can't verify but I don't have any reason not to believe them. I don't know if the wall up was the start of that or not but it is in the spot where you would move the wall to. I assume covid killed it, just like the baggage claim, so maybe we will hear word of more gates soon. Especially since they are going to be back at record levels of flights late summer/fall now. That would put WN at 20 or 21 gates, depending on if they add 3 or 4, and should be enough to get them through until the new terminal.

jmy007 · Thu Apr 06, 2023 5:31 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
atrude777 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Commission meeting notes

For Southwest Baggage claim expansion

Special facility bonds 60 mil. Airport sells bonds. Southwest pays full cost

Pays any increased rent that occurs. If southwest ceases to occupy they will pay it off in 18 months (Ie if it isn't paid off when they move to new terminal).

Larger footprint 11K sq ft.

More back of house operations.

30% design review due next Friday.

Timeline: Ready for occupation late 2025. Back of the house likely sooner.

Just arrived on LH448 yesterday on a probably %80 full flight (anecdotally) The customs area seemed just to fit most of that plane, but could see how crowded it would get if flights from Mexico were to arrive. The bags did indeed come out in the customs area, and it was nice to take the front door our and down there stairs to ground transport. Less hassle than taking the long hallway to T2 baggage claim.
It would be interesting to know the onward connection percentage on UA or Southwest for that matter.

No new rendering shown...

The idea that Southwest knows this is going to be in use less than a decade and all the way to the top level said they want this, and an expanded version from the original is great to see.

Link to original design back in 2018. This one is will be 500 sq ft bigger than the original design and cost about 3x as much (I think a lot of that is due to increases costs)
https://www.flystl.com/newsroom/stl-new ... -bag-claim

Now I am curious...is Lufthansa also using Terminal 2 Baggage Claim...and where?

I still can't believe SWA operated Terminal 2 with just 2 Carousels.

Alex

They would be using the baggage claim in customs

Jshank83 · Thu Apr 06, 2023 5:39 pm

jmy007 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
atrude777 wrote:

Now I am curious...is Lufthansa also using Terminal 2 Baggage Claim...and where?

I still can't believe SWA operated Terminal 2 with just 2 Carousels.

Alex

They would be using the baggage claim in customs

Just arrived on LH448 yesterday on a probably %80 full flight (anecdotally) The customs area seemed just to fit most of that plane, but could see how crowded it would get if flights from Mexico were to arrive. The bags did indeed come out in the customs area, and it was nice to take the front door our and down there stairs to ground transport. Less hassle than taking the long hallway to T2 baggage claim.
It would be interesting to know the onward connection percentage on UA or Southwest for that matter.

They have mentioned the UA number before. I think it was around 5 people a flight.

dcaproducer · Thu Apr 06, 2023 6:19 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Commission meeting notes

For Southwest Baggage claim expansion

Special facility bonds 60 mil. Airport sells bonds. Southwest pays full cost

Pays any increased rent that occurs. If southwest ceases to occupy they will pay it off in 18 months (Ie if it isn't paid off when they move to new terminal).

Larger footprint 11K sq ft.

More back of house operations.

30% design review due next Friday.

Timeline: Ready for occupation late 2025. Back of the house likely sooner.

No new rendering shown...

The idea that Southwest knows this is going to be in use less than a decade and all the way to the top level said they want this, and an expanded version from the original is great to see.

Link to original design back in 2018. This one is will be 500 sq ft bigger than the original design and cost about 3x as much (I think a lot of that is due to increases costs)
https://www.flystl.com/newsroom/stl-new ... -bag-claim

This also makes me wonder if WN would need additional gates in the not to distant future.

Wouldn't take much to get them online. I was in D a couple months ago. The next section already has a makeshift wall up. It already has the tile and I think the carpet walls had been changed also. Just needs some paint to change some red to blue to match the E gates. It also has retail/restaurant space, with a bar, which would be nice to have down there. Throw in a fast casual or something.

I had heard late 2019 they were getting ready to put in more gates. Someone told me they had seen the plans, I can't verify but I don't have any reason not to believe them. I don't know if the wall up was the start of that or not but it is in the spot where you would move the wall to. I assume covid killed it, just like the baggage claim, so maybe we will hear word of more gates soon. Especially since they are going to be back at record levels of flights late summer/fall now. That would put WN at 20 or 21 gates, depending on if they add 3 or 4, and should be enough to get them through until the new terminal.

That's interesting. It would give the airport some additional concession rent as well as give WN more gates. With the heavier use of the FIS gates this would also give WN some more elbow room. I was in STL in early February and WN had a couple of planes parked down D, I'm guessing just due to space constraints until they could be towed to a gate for their next flight.

Jshank83 · Tue Apr 11, 2023 3:07 pm

Work On New Terminal Addition At Midamerica St. Louis Airport Nears Completion

https://www.riverbender.com/articles/de ... -64877.cfm

New pic included with all the boarding bridges.

I am going over on Monday to meet with the airport director and get another look in person. I should be able to get some new pics.

Jshank83 · Tue Apr 11, 2023 4:53 pm

WN added a 2nd daily during the week to SAN for mind July-mid August so now its 2x a day for the full week.

F9 added a 2nd Denver daily in June and July

stl1326 · Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:33 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
WN added a 2nd daily during the week to SAN for mind July-mid August so now its 2x a day for the full week.

F9 added a 2nd Denver daily in June and July

I know the fall schedule Southwest will peak at 129 daily. Do you know what the summer peak will be?

Jshank83 · Wed Apr 12, 2023 3:39 am

stl1326 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
WN added a 2nd daily during the week to SAN for mind July-mid August so now its 2x a day for the full week.

F9 added a 2nd Denver daily in June and July

I know the fall schedule Southwest will peak at 129 daily. Do you know what the summer peak will be?

Original July schedule was

Friday 115
Saturday 104
Sunday 125

So now Friday is at least 116 with the SAN add.

I haven’t gone back thru it since the initial release.

LAXPolaris · Wed Apr 12, 2023 5:38 am

Based off what some others have said on this thread, it seems STL-FRA is doing decent? Don’t think anyone had that high of expectations for it so is it fair to say it is doing better than expected?

Seems like the load is at least decent, anyone have any insight into what the yields are?

TWA302 · Wed Apr 12, 2023 1:50 pm

LAXPolaris wrote:
Based off what some others have said on this thread, it seems STL-FRA is doing decent? Don’t think anyone had that high of expectations for it so is it fair to say it is doing better than expected?

Seems like the load is at least decent, anyone have any insight into what the yields are?

Last numbers posted here from jshank
LH FRA 89.5% - September
LH FRA 90.5% - August
LH FRA 91% - July

I had no doubt it would do well here. Having flown the route twice, it was at/near full. It is a great gateway, great price/service without having to screw with ORD, PHL, CLT, on any of the legacy US carriers.

Jshank83 · Wed Apr 12, 2023 2:41 pm

TWA302 wrote:
LAXPolaris wrote:
Based off what some others have said on this thread, it seems STL-FRA is doing decent? Don’t think anyone had that high of expectations for it so is it fair to say it is doing better than expected?

Seems like the load is at least decent, anyone have any insight into what the yields are?

Last numbers posted here from jshank
LH FRA 89.5% - September
LH FRA 90.5% - August
LH FRA 91% - July

I had no doubt it would do well here. Having flown the route twice, it was at/near full. It is a great gateway, great price/service without having to screw with ORD, PHL, CLT, on any of the legacy US carriers.

October numbers will be released tomorrow.
The airport said November was 81% but their numbers haven't been matching up with the reported numbers so take that with a grain of salt. Although that sounds like it would be about right for November.

I haven't seen yield data. I am not sure that data for international gets put out in the open, but based on ticket prices I would think they are at least decent.

Jshank83 · Thu Apr 13, 2023 3:39 pm

October International Loads

WN CUN 95%
LH FRA 84.5% (90.5% inbound 78.5% outbound)
F9 CUN 82.5%
AC YYZ 78%

Jshank83 · Mon Apr 17, 2023 2:24 am

Final Full Domestic Loads for complete 2022
International through October

Air Canada
City Outbound Inbound Total
Toronto (YYZ) 80.90% 80.89% 80.90%

Alaska
City Outbound Inbound Total
Seattle (SEA) 88.58% 89.16% 88.87%

American
City Outbound Inbound Total
Austin TX (AUS) 66.32% 62.18% 64.24%
Boston MA (BOS) 67.62% 64.27% 65.96%
Cancun MX (CUN) 78.95% 77.45% 78.20%
Charlotte NC (CLT) 82.12% 83.47% 82.80%
Chicago IL (ORD) 76.04% 77.34% 76.69%
Dallas/Fort Worth TX (DFW) 83.13% 84.38% 83.76%
Los Angeles CA (LAX 85.61% 87.73% 86.67%
Miami FL (MIA) 78.46% 80.04% 79.25%
New York NY (LGA) 56.51% 60.99% 58.76%
Philadelphia PA (PHL) 80.52% 80.89% 80.71%
Phoenix (PHX) 83.19% 83.42% 83.31%
Washington DC (DCA) 74.73% 75.01% 74.87%

Delta
City Outbound Inbound Total
Atlanta GA (ATL) 81.29% 81.42% 81.36%
Detroit MI (DTW) 77.79% 80.80% 79.30%
Minneapolis MN (MSP) 80.58% 79.75% 80.17%
New York NY (LGA) 66.55% 65.95% 66.25%
Salt Lake City UT (SLC) 82.32% 83.70% 83.01%

Frontier
City Outbound Inbound Total
Atlanta GA (ATL) 61.05% 61.20% 61.12%
Cancun MX (CUN) 76.20% 76.32% 76.26%
Denver CO (DEN) 79.45% 71.25% 75.32%
Las Vegas NV (LAS) 80.96% 78.65% 79.80%
Miami FL (MIA) 55.03% 58.51% 56.77%
Orlando FL (MCO) 83.23% 82.18% 82.70%
Punta Cana DR (PUJ) 72.14% 73.99% 73.05%
Tampa FL (TPA) 46.28% 51.49% 48.84%

Lufthansa
City Outbound Inbound Total
Frankfurt GER (FRA) 88.20% 90.43% 89.32%

Southwest
City Outbound Inbound Total
Atlanta GA (ATL) 78.86% 82.00% 80.47%
Austin TX (AUS) 77.38% 80.92% 79.17%
Baltimore MD (BWI) 77.27% 81.13% 79.22%
Boston MA (BOS) 79.82% 79.62% 79.72%
Cancun MX (CUN) 88.55% 91.87% 90.22%
Charleston SC (CHS) 78.21% 85.60% 82.18%
Charlotte NC (CLT) 78.97% 76.77% 77.85%
Chicago IL (MDW) 70.03% 70.00% 70.01%
Cleveland OH (CLE) 80.24% 79.42% 79.82%
Columbus OH (CMH) 78.56% 75.91% 77.26%
Dallas TX (DAL) 82.53% 80.17% 81.32%
Denver CO (DEN) 88.57% 87.96% 88.28%
Des Moines IA (DSM) 69.05% 70.05% 69.56%
Destin FL (VPS) 91.56% 93.15% 92.38%
Detroit MI (DTW) 80.83% 77.22% 79.01%
Ft. Lauderdale FL (FLL) 81.87% 86.06% 83.90%
Ft. Myers FL (RSW) 87.51% 87.40% 87.45%
Hartford CT (BDL) 74.76% 88.21% 80.99%
Houston TX (HOU) 80.95% 81.08% 81.02%
Jacksonville FL (JAX) 88.51% 89.31% 88.92%
Kansas City MO (MCI) 79.67% 80.66% 80.17%
Las Vegas NV (LAS) 90.17% 89.80% 89.99%
Little Rock AR (LIT) 66.79% 70.45% 68.67%
Long Beach CA (LGB) 87.41% 84.66% 86.00%
Los Angeles CA (LAX) 92.61% 91.32% 92.00%
Miami FL (MIA) 84.88% 86.09% 85.48%
Milwaukee WI (MKE) 83.46% 78.49% 80.99%
Minneapolis MN (MSP) 78.54% 79.09% 78.81%
Montego BAY JM (MBJ) 92.00% 84.58% 88.48%
Myrtle Beach SC (MYR) 84.40% 77.84% 81.28%
Nashville TN (BNA) 79.00% 77.62% 78.33%
New Orleans LA (MSY) 83.26% 76.55% 79.77%
New York NY (LGA) 70.38% 71.66% 71.02%
Oakland CA (OAK) 90.13% 76.94% 83.23%
Oklahoma City OK (OKC) 81.81% 84.29% 83.07%
Omaha NE (OMA) 82.22% 82.40% 82.31%
Orange County CA (SNA) 84.22% 87.88% 86.07%
Orlando FL (MCO) 88.85% 87.42% 88.14%
Panama City FL (ECP) 86.78% 89.13% 87.92%
Pensacola FL (PNS) 88.98% 88.42% 88.70%
Philadelphia PA (PHL) 88.89% 84.12% 86.38%
Pittsburgh PA (PIT) 83.66% 74.61% 79.22%
Phoenix AZ (PHX) 89.23% 88.72% 88.97%
Portland OR (PDX) 91.47% 90.49% 90.98%
Raleigh NC (RDU) 90.05% 87.67% 88.90%
Sacramento CA (SMF) 89.78% 89.32% 89.55%
Salt Lake City UT (SLC) 88.02% 86.47% 87.07%
San Antonio TX (SAT) 75.23% 88.15% 81.41%
San Deigo CA (SAN) 92.40% 92.42% 92.41%
San Francisco CA (SFO) 99.43% 80.42% 90.88%
San Jose CA (SJC) 90.50% 90.22% 90.36%
San Juan PR (SJU) 86.92% 84.56% 85.79%
Sarasota FL (SRQ) 80.27% 80.47% 80.36%
Seattle WA (SEA) 90.93% 88.49% 89.69%
Tampa FL (TPA) 89.75% 88.26% 89.00%
Tulsa OK (TUL) 63.90% 70.69% 67.45%
Washington DC (DCA) 73.04% 74.71% 73.88%
Wichita KS (ICT) 67.93% 73.47% 70.65%

Spirit
City Outbound Inbound Total
Cancun MX (CUN) 55.76% 59.77% 57.76%
Fort Lauderdale FL (FLL) 65.23% 68.34% 66.78%
Fort Myers FL (RSW) 61.72% 68.73% 65.19%
Los Angeles CA (LAX) 73.95% 71.17% 72.53%
Las Vegas NV (LAS) 68.13% 87.57% 77.88%
Myrtle Beach NC (MYR) 34.80% 19.60% 27.20%
Orlando FL (MCO) 77.54% 78.80% 78.17%
Phoenix AZ (PHX) 63.31% 68.77% 66.02%
Tampa FL (TPA) 60.42% 65.40% 62.94%

United
City Outbound Inbound Total
Chicago IL (ORD) 85.91% 84.86% 85.41%
Denver CO (DEN) 87.24% 86.40% 86.82%
Houston TX (IAH) 83.14% 83.62% 83.39%
Newark NJ (EWR) 72.28% 86.82% 72.99%
Washington DC (IAD) 80.31% 86.82% 80.10%

Apple Vacations - Viva Aerobus
City Outbound Inbound Total
Huatulco MX (HUX) 55.25% 55.08% 55.16%
Los Cabos MX (SJD) 54.22% 56.13% 55.16%
Puerto Vallarta MX (PVR) 71.76% 65.90% 68.71%

Allegiant - BLV
City Outbound Inbound Total
Charleston SC (CHS) 61.43% 59.08% 60.26%
Destin/FWB FL (VPS) 84.89% 84.24% 84.57%
Fort Lauderdale FL (FLL) 72.74% 72.48% 72.61%
Jacksonville FL (JAX) 83.07% 81.60% 82.34%
Las Vegas NV (LAS) 81.88% 80.41% 81.14%
Myrtle Beach SC (MYR) 85.58% 82.46% 84.02%
Orlando/Sanford FL (SFB) 88.51% 84.99% 86.74%
Pheonix/Mesa AZ (AZA) 77.80% 76.57% 77.19%
Punta Gorda FL (PGD) 89.65% 88.28% 88.96%
Sarasota FL (SRQ) 80.29% 79.76% 80.03%
Savannah FL (SAV) 69.37% 73.13% 71.46%
St Petersburg/Tampa FL (PIE) 89.20% 89.32% 89.26%

Full spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Jshank83 · Mon Apr 17, 2023 3:07 am

January numbers for BLV

Up 7.83% over JAN22

Loads
Punta Gorda FL (PGD) 92.58%
Orlando/Sanford FL (SFB) 92.52%
Pheonix/Mesa AZ (AZA) 90.05%
St Petersburg/Tampa FL (PIE) 86.31%
Destin/FWB FL (VPS) 85.50%
Las Vegas NV (LAS) 76.14%
Sarasota FL (SRQ) 75.81%

pmanni1 · Mon Apr 17, 2023 11:16 am

Jshank83 wrote:
Final Full Domestic Loads for complete 2022
International through October

Air Canada
City Outbound Inbound Total
Toronto (YYZ) 80.90% 80.89% 80.90%

Alaska
City Outbound Inbound Total
Seattle (SEA) 88.58% 89.16% 88.87%

American
City Outbound Inbound Total
Austin TX (AUS) 66.32% 62.18% 64.24%
Boston MA (BOS) 67.62% 64.27% 65.96%
Cancun MX (CUN) 78.95% 77.45% 78.20%
Charlotte NC (CLT) 82.12% 83.47% 82.80%
Chicago IL (ORD) 76.04% 77.34% 76.69%
Dallas/Fort Worth TX (DFW) 83.13% 84.38% 83.76%
Los Angeles CA (LAX 85.61% 87.73% 86.67%
Miami FL (MIA) 78.46% 80.04% 79.25%
New York NY (LGA) 56.51% 60.99% 58.76%
Philadelphia PA (PHL) 80.52% 80.89% 80.71%
Phoenix (PHX) 83.19% 83.42% 83.31%
Washington DC (DCA) 74.73% 75.01% 74.87%

Delta
City Outbound Inbound Total
Atlanta GA (ATL) 81.29% 81.42% 81.36%
Detroit MI (DTW) 77.79% 80.80% 79.30%
Minneapolis MN (MSP) 80.58% 79.75% 80.17%
New York NY (LGA) 66.55% 65.95% 66.25%
Salt Lake City UT (SLC) 82.32% 83.70% 83.01%

Frontier
City Outbound Inbound Total
Atlanta GA (ATL) 61.05% 61.20% 61.12%
Cancun MX (CUN) 76.20% 76.32% 76.26%
Denver CO (DEN) 79.45% 71.25% 75.32%
Las Vegas NV (LAS) 80.96% 78.65% 79.80%
Miami FL (MIA) 55.03% 58.51% 56.77%
Orlando FL (MCO) 83.23% 82.18% 82.70%
Punta Cana DR (PUJ) 72.14% 73.99% 73.05%
Tampa FL (TPA) 46.28% 51.49% 48.84%

Lufthansa
City Outbound Inbound Total
Frankfurt GER (FRA) 88.20% 90.43% 89.32%

Southwest
City Outbound Inbound Total
Atlanta GA (ATL) 78.86% 82.00% 80.47%
Austin TX (AUS) 77.38% 80.92% 79.17%
Baltimore MD (BWI) 77.27% 81.13% 79.22%
Boston MA (BOS) 79.82% 79.62% 79.72%
Cancun MX (CUN) 88.55% 91.87% 90.22%
Charleston SC (CHS) 78.21% 85.60% 82.18%
Charlotte NC (CLT) 78.97% 76.77% 77.85%
Chicago IL (MDW) 70.03% 70.00% 70.01%
Cleveland OH (CLE) 80.24% 79.42% 79.82%
Columbus OH (CMH) 78.56% 75.91% 77.26%
Dallas TX (DAL) 82.53% 80.17% 81.32%
Denver CO (DEN) 88.57% 87.96% 88.28%
Des Moines IA (DSM) 69.05% 70.05% 69.56%
Destin FL (VPS) 91.56% 93.15% 92.38%
Detroit MI (DTW) 80.83% 77.22% 79.01%
Ft. Lauderdale FL (FLL) 81.87% 86.06% 83.90%
Ft. Myers FL (RSW) 87.51% 87.40% 87.45%
Hartford CT (BDL) 74.76% 88.21% 80.99%
Houston TX (HOU) 80.95% 81.08% 81.02%
Jacksonville FL (JAX) 88.51% 89.31% 88.92%
Kansas City MO (MCI) 79.67% 80.66% 80.17%
Las Vegas NV (LAS) 90.17% 89.80% 89.99%
Little Rock AR (LIT) 66.79% 70.45% 68.67%
Long Beach CA (LGB) 87.41% 84.66% 86.00%
Los Angeles CA (LAX) 92.61% 91.32% 92.00%
Miami FL (MIA) 84.88% 86.09% 85.48%
Milwaukee WI (MKE) 83.46% 78.49% 80.99%
Minneapolis MN (MSP) 78.54% 79.09% 78.81%
Montego BAY JM (MBJ) 92.00% 84.58% 88.48%
Myrtle Beach SC (MYR) 84.40% 77.84% 81.28%
Nashville TN (BNA) 79.00% 77.62% 78.33%
New Orleans LA (MSY) 83.26% 76.55% 79.77%
New York NY (LGA) 70.38% 71.66% 71.02%
Oakland CA (OAK) 90.13% 76.94% 83.23%
Oklahoma City OK (OKC) 81.81% 84.29% 83.07%
Omaha NE (OMA) 82.22% 82.40% 82.31%
Orange County CA (SNA) 84.22% 87.88% 86.07%
Orlando FL (MCO) 88.85% 87.42% 88.14%
Panama City FL (ECP) 86.78% 89.13% 87.92%
Pensacola FL (PNS) 88.98% 88.42% 88.70%
Philadelphia PA (PHL) 88.89% 84.12% 86.38%
Pittsburgh PA (PIT) 83.66% 74.61% 79.22%
Phoenix AZ (PHX) 89.23% 88.72% 88.97%
Portland OR (PDX) 91.47% 90.49% 90.98%
Raleigh NC (RDU) 90.05% 87.67% 88.90%
Sacramento CA (SMF) 89.78% 89.32% 89.55%
Salt Lake City UT (SLC) 88.02% 86.47% 87.07%
San Antonio TX (SAT) 75.23% 88.15% 81.41%
San Deigo CA (SAN) 92.40% 92.42% 92.41%
San Francisco CA (SFO) 99.43% 80.42% 90.88%
San Jose CA (SJC) 90.50% 90.22% 90.36%
San Juan PR (SJU) 86.92% 84.56% 85.79%
Sarasota FL (SRQ) 80.27% 80.47% 80.36%
Seattle WA (SEA) 90.93% 88.49% 89.69%
Tampa FL (TPA) 89.75% 88.26% 89.00%
Tulsa OK (TUL) 63.90% 70.69% 67.45%
Washington DC (DCA) 73.04% 74.71% 73.88%
Wichita KS (ICT) 67.93% 73.47% 70.65%

Spirit
City Outbound Inbound Total
Cancun MX (CUN) 55.76% 59.77% 57.76%
Fort Lauderdale FL (FLL) 65.23% 68.34% 66.78%
Fort Myers FL (RSW) 61.72% 68.73% 65.19%
Los Angeles CA (LAX) 73.95% 71.17% 72.53%
Las Vegas NV (LAS) 68.13% 87.57% 77.88%
Myrtle Beach NC (MYR) 34.80% 19.60% 27.20%
Orlando FL (MCO) 77.54% 78.80% 78.17%
Phoenix AZ (PHX) 63.31% 68.77% 66.02%
Tampa FL (TPA) 60.42% 65.40% 62.94%

United
City Outbound Inbound Total
Chicago IL (ORD) 85.91% 84.86% 85.41%
Denver CO (DEN) 87.24% 86.40% 86.82%
Houston TX (IAH) 83.14% 83.62% 83.39%
Newark NJ (EWR) 72.28% 86.82% 72.99%
Washington DC (IAD) 80.31% 86.82% 80.10%

Apple Vacations - Viva Aerobus
City Outbound Inbound Total
Huatulco MX (HUX) 55.25% 55.08% 55.16%
Los Cabos MX (SJD) 54.22% 56.13% 55.16%
Puerto Vallarta MX (PVR) 71.76% 65.90% 68.71%

Allegiant - BLV
City Outbound Inbound Total
Charleston SC (CHS) 61.43% 59.08% 60.26%
Destin/FWB FL (VPS) 84.89% 84.24% 84.57%
Fort Lauderdale FL (FLL) 72.74% 72.48% 72.61%
Jacksonville FL (JAX) 83.07% 81.60% 82.34%
Las Vegas NV (LAS) 81.88% 80.41% 81.14%
Myrtle Beach SC (MYR) 85.58% 82.46% 84.02%
Orlando/Sanford FL (SFB) 88.51% 84.99% 86.74%
Pheonix/Mesa AZ (AZA) 77.80% 76.57% 77.19%
Punta Gorda FL (PGD) 89.65% 88.28% 88.96%
Sarasota FL (SRQ) 80.29% 79.76% 80.03%
Savannah FL (SAV) 69.37% 73.13% 71.46%
St Petersburg/Tampa FL (PIE) 89.20% 89.32% 89.26%

Full spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

I'll give credit to F9 for attempting new routes but I think TPA will be on the chopping block.

Jshank83 · Mon Apr 17, 2023 2:34 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Final Full Domestic Loads for complete 2022
International through October

Air Canada
City Outbound Inbound Total
Toronto (YYZ) 80.90% 80.89% 80.90%

Alaska
City Outbound Inbound Total
Seattle (SEA) 88.58% 89.16% 88.87%

American
City Outbound Inbound Total
Austin TX (AUS) 66.32% 62.18% 64.24%
Boston MA (BOS) 67.62% 64.27% 65.96%
Cancun MX (CUN) 78.95% 77.45% 78.20%
Charlotte NC (CLT) 82.12% 83.47% 82.80%
Chicago IL (ORD) 76.04% 77.34% 76.69%
Dallas/Fort Worth TX (DFW) 83.13% 84.38% 83.76%
Los Angeles CA (LAX 85.61% 87.73% 86.67%
Miami FL (MIA) 78.46% 80.04% 79.25%
New York NY (LGA) 56.51% 60.99% 58.76%
Philadelphia PA (PHL) 80.52% 80.89% 80.71%
Phoenix (PHX) 83.19% 83.42% 83.31%
Washington DC (DCA) 74.73% 75.01% 74.87%

Delta
City Outbound Inbound Total
Atlanta GA (ATL) 81.29% 81.42% 81.36%
Detroit MI (DTW) 77.79% 80.80% 79.30%
Minneapolis MN (MSP) 80.58% 79.75% 80.17%
New York NY (LGA) 66.55% 65.95% 66.25%
Salt Lake City UT (SLC) 82.32% 83.70% 83.01%

Frontier
City Outbound Inbound Total
Atlanta GA (ATL) 61.05% 61.20% 61.12%
Cancun MX (CUN) 76.20% 76.32% 76.26%
Denver CO (DEN) 79.45% 71.25% 75.32%
Las Vegas NV (LAS) 80.96% 78.65% 79.80%
Miami FL (MIA) 55.03% 58.51% 56.77%
Orlando FL (MCO) 83.23% 82.18% 82.70%
Punta Cana DR (PUJ) 72.14% 73.99% 73.05%
Tampa FL (TPA) 46.28% 51.49% 48.84%

Lufthansa
City Outbound Inbound Total
Frankfurt GER (FRA) 88.20% 90.43% 89.32%

Southwest
City Outbound Inbound Total
Atlanta GA (ATL) 78.86% 82.00% 80.47%
Austin TX (AUS) 77.38% 80.92% 79.17%
Baltimore MD (BWI) 77.27% 81.13% 79.22%
Boston MA (BOS) 79.82% 79.62% 79.72%
Cancun MX (CUN) 88.55% 91.87% 90.22%
Charleston SC (CHS) 78.21% 85.60% 82.18%
Charlotte NC (CLT) 78.97% 76.77% 77.85%
Chicago IL (MDW) 70.03% 70.00% 70.01%
Cleveland OH (CLE) 80.24% 79.42% 79.82%
Columbus OH (CMH) 78.56% 75.91% 77.26%
Dallas TX (DAL) 82.53% 80.17% 81.32%
Denver CO (DEN) 88.57% 87.96% 88.28%
Des Moines IA (DSM) 69.05% 70.05% 69.56%
Destin FL (VPS) 91.56% 93.15% 92.38%
Detroit MI (DTW) 80.83% 77.22% 79.01%
Ft. Lauderdale FL (FLL) 81.87% 86.06% 83.90%
Ft. Myers FL (RSW) 87.51% 87.40% 87.45%
Hartford CT (BDL) 74.76% 88.21% 80.99%
Houston TX (HOU) 80.95% 81.08% 81.02%
Jacksonville FL (JAX) 88.51% 89.31% 88.92%
Kansas City MO (MCI) 79.67% 80.66% 80.17%
Las Vegas NV (LAS) 90.17% 89.80% 89.99%
Little Rock AR (LIT) 66.79% 70.45% 68.67%
Long Beach CA (LGB) 87.41% 84.66% 86.00%
Los Angeles CA (LAX) 92.61% 91.32% 92.00%
Miami FL (MIA) 84.88% 86.09% 85.48%
Milwaukee WI (MKE) 83.46% 78.49% 80.99%
Minneapolis MN (MSP) 78.54% 79.09% 78.81%
Montego BAY JM (MBJ) 92.00% 84.58% 88.48%
Myrtle Beach SC (MYR) 84.40% 77.84% 81.28%
Nashville TN (BNA) 79.00% 77.62% 78.33%
New Orleans LA (MSY) 83.26% 76.55% 79.77%
New York NY (LGA) 70.38% 71.66% 71.02%
Oakland CA (OAK) 90.13% 76.94% 83.23%
Oklahoma City OK (OKC) 81.81% 84.29% 83.07%
Omaha NE (OMA) 82.22% 82.40% 82.31%
Orange County CA (SNA) 84.22% 87.88% 86.07%
Orlando FL (MCO) 88.85% 87.42% 88.14%
Panama City FL (ECP) 86.78% 89.13% 87.92%
Pensacola FL (PNS) 88.98% 88.42% 88.70%
Philadelphia PA (PHL) 88.89% 84.12% 86.38%
Pittsburgh PA (PIT) 83.66% 74.61% 79.22%
Phoenix AZ (PHX) 89.23% 88.72% 88.97%
Portland OR (PDX) 91.47% 90.49% 90.98%
Raleigh NC (RDU) 90.05% 87.67% 88.90%
Sacramento CA (SMF) 89.78% 89.32% 89.55%
Salt Lake City UT (SLC) 88.02% 86.47% 87.07%
San Antonio TX (SAT) 75.23% 88.15% 81.41%
San Deigo CA (SAN) 92.40% 92.42% 92.41%
San Francisco CA (SFO) 99.43% 80.42% 90.88%
San Jose CA (SJC) 90.50% 90.22% 90.36%
San Juan PR (SJU) 86.92% 84.56% 85.79%
Sarasota FL (SRQ) 80.27% 80.47% 80.36%
Seattle WA (SEA) 90.93% 88.49% 89.69%
Tampa FL (TPA) 89.75% 88.26% 89.00%
Tulsa OK (TUL) 63.90% 70.69% 67.45%
Washington DC (DCA) 73.04% 74.71% 73.88%
Wichita KS (ICT) 67.93% 73.47% 70.65%

Spirit
City Outbound Inbound Total
Cancun MX (CUN) 55.76% 59.77% 57.76%
Fort Lauderdale FL (FLL) 65.23% 68.34% 66.78%
Fort Myers FL (RSW) 61.72% 68.73% 65.19%
Los Angeles CA (LAX) 73.95% 71.17% 72.53%
Las Vegas NV (LAS) 68.13% 87.57% 77.88%
Myrtle Beach NC (MYR) 34.80% 19.60% 27.20%
Orlando FL (MCO) 77.54% 78.80% 78.17%
Phoenix AZ (PHX) 63.31% 68.77% 66.02%
Tampa FL (TPA) 60.42% 65.40% 62.94%

United
City Outbound Inbound Total
Chicago IL (ORD) 85.91% 84.86% 85.41%
Denver CO (DEN) 87.24% 86.40% 86.82%
Houston TX (IAH) 83.14% 83.62% 83.39%
Newark NJ (EWR) 72.28% 86.82% 72.99%
Washington DC (IAD) 80.31% 86.82% 80.10%

Apple Vacations - Viva Aerobus
City Outbound Inbound Total
Huatulco MX (HUX) 55.25% 55.08% 55.16%
Los Cabos MX (SJD) 54.22% 56.13% 55.16%
Puerto Vallarta MX (PVR) 71.76% 65.90% 68.71%

Allegiant - BLV
City Outbound Inbound Total
Charleston SC (CHS) 61.43% 59.08% 60.26%
Destin/FWB FL (VPS) 84.89% 84.24% 84.57%
Fort Lauderdale FL (FLL) 72.74% 72.48% 72.61%
Jacksonville FL (JAX) 83.07% 81.60% 82.34%
Las Vegas NV (LAS) 81.88% 80.41% 81.14%
Myrtle Beach SC (MYR) 85.58% 82.46% 84.02%
Orlando/Sanford FL (SFB) 88.51% 84.99% 86.74%
Pheonix/Mesa AZ (AZA) 77.80% 76.57% 77.19%
Punta Gorda FL (PGD) 89.65% 88.28% 88.96%
Sarasota FL (SRQ) 80.29% 79.76% 80.03%
Savannah FL (SAV) 69.37% 73.13% 71.46%
St Petersburg/Tampa FL (PIE) 89.20% 89.32% 89.26%

Full spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

I'll give credit to F9 for attempting new routes but I think TPA will be on the chopping block.

Today is the last day of it, and I doubt it comes back. The times were terrible, as they were for MIA also. Midnight arrivals in Florida. Cuts back on you taking the family on those flights.

Atlanta actually did better than I thought it would. We will see if they replace those three with anything.

BHMNONREV · Mon Apr 17, 2023 10:03 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
TWA302 wrote:
LAXPolaris wrote:
Based off what some others have said on this thread, it seems STL-FRA is doing decent? Don’t think anyone had that high of expectations for it so is it fair to say it is doing better than expected?

Seems like the load is at least decent, anyone have any insight into what the yields are?

Last numbers posted here from jshank
LH FRA 89.5% - September
LH FRA 90.5% - August
LH FRA 91% - July

I had no doubt it would do well here. Having flown the route twice, it was at/near full. It is a great gateway, great price/service without having to screw with ORD, PHL, CLT, on any of the legacy US carriers.

October numbers will be released tomorrow.
The airport said November was 81% but their numbers haven't been matching up with the reported numbers so take that with a grain of salt. Although that sounds like it would be about right for November.

I haven't seen yield data. I am not sure that data for international gets put out in the open, but based on ticket prices I would think they are at least decent.

Thanks for posting these numbers for LH, is there a breakdown of the premium cabins you are able to provide? It is my understanding that the J cabin from STL does quite well with the 42 seats offered, and noticed that both AUS and DFW both upgauge to the 789 by June even though there are only 28 J seats on the Boeing.

Any chance STL could see the 789 at some point?

Jshank83 · Tue Apr 18, 2023 3:04 am

BHMNONREV wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
TWA302 wrote:

Last numbers posted here from jshank
LH FRA 89.5% - September
LH FRA 90.5% - August
LH FRA 91% - July

I had no doubt it would do well here. Having flown the route twice, it was at/near full. It is a great gateway, great price/service without having to screw with ORD, PHL, CLT, on any of the legacy US carriers.

October numbers will be released tomorrow.
The airport said November was 81% but their numbers haven't been matching up with the reported numbers so take that with a grain of salt. Although that sounds like it would be about right for November.

I haven't seen yield data. I am not sure that data for international gets put out in the open, but based on ticket prices I would think they are at least decent.

Thanks for posting these numbers for LH, is there a breakdown of the premium cabins you are able to provide? It is my understanding that the J cabin from STL does quite well with the 42 seats offered, and noticed that both AUS and DFW both upgauge to the 789 by June even though there are only 28 J seats on the Boeing.

Any chance STL could see the 789 at some point?

I don’t have a breakdown but first is sold out fairly often when I do dummy bookings.

Not sure I really see them changing to a plane with less business class if it is selling out. But I don’t have any insight to what they are thinking.

reednavy · Tue Apr 18, 2023 3:15 am

The closest comparison to the A330 as far as seats go for business is the A350 configured with 48, and that's not including the A340-600 that has first class seats as well.

TWA302 · Tue Apr 18, 2023 2:44 pm

Just got to STL and there was a ground stop that was just lifted. Any reason why?

Edit…….
Just saw it was WN only company wide….. again.

Jshank83 · Fri Apr 21, 2023 2:37 pm

Went over to BLV yesterday to see the progress on the terminal expansion. We are 2 months out from opening of the expansion. It is going to be really nice and really needed. The new seating options are great, lots of power outlets. A lot of natural light makes the space friendly to be in. They are redoing the check in counter area to have a belt behind it like most airports for bags, no more pulling your bag over to the scanner. They are redoing the back of the house to have office space for G4 if they make it a base (fingers crossed). The new security will be much better. Concessions is also under construction and will have a window to sell on land side also. Really liked the glass jetway door for some reason. Nursing room and pet relief areas being added also.

FIS construction should start soon in anticipation of Viva Aerobus coming in. They are enlarging the apron for more parking space.
Work has started landslide to match the new to the old. It will happen airside once the expansion opens

New layout. Grey areas will be expanded apron

Looking at new expansion from inside. Top is new airport offices, bottom is security.

Jetbridge Doors

Codasco · Mon Apr 24, 2023 6:51 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
BHMNONREV wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

October numbers will be released tomorrow.
The airport said November was 81% but their numbers haven't been matching up with the reported numbers so take that with a grain of salt. Although that sounds like it would be about right for November.

I haven't seen yield data. I am not sure that data for international gets put out in the open, but based on ticket prices I would think they are at least decent.

Thanks for posting these numbers for LH, is there a breakdown of the premium cabins you are able to provide? It is my understanding that the J cabin from STL does quite well with the 42 seats offered, and noticed that both AUS and DFW both upgauge to the 789 by June even though there are only 28 J seats on the Boeing.

Any chance STL could see the 789 at some point?

I don’t have a breakdown but first is sold out fairly often when I do dummy bookings.

Not sure I really see them changing to a plane with less business class if it is selling out. But I don’t have any insight to what they are thinking.

Granted this is anecdotal, but business was totally sold out on my outbound Nov 30 flight, and all but 1 seat occupied on the inbound on Dec 11. I was pleasantly surprised.

Jshank83 · Mon Apr 24, 2023 7:18 pm

Codasco wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
BHMNONREV wrote:

Thanks for posting these numbers for LH, is there a breakdown of the premium cabins you are able to provide? It is my understanding that the J cabin from STL does quite well with the 42 seats offered, and noticed that both AUS and DFW both upgauge to the 789 by June even though there are only 28 J seats on the Boeing.

Any chance STL could see the 789 at some point?

I don’t have a breakdown but first is sold out fairly often when I do dummy bookings.

Not sure I really see them changing to a plane with less business class if it is selling out. But I don’t have any insight to what they are thinking.

Granted this is anecdotal, but business was totally sold out on my outbound Nov 30 flight, and all but 1 seat occupied on the inbound on Dec 11. I was pleasantly surprised.

Seems like when I check business/premium economy they usually are sold out or close to sold out.

TWA302 · Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:10 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Codasco wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

I don’t have a breakdown but first is sold out fairly often when I do dummy bookings.

Not sure I really see them changing to a plane with less business class if it is selling out. But I don’t have any insight to what they are thinking.

Granted this is anecdotal, but business was totally sold out on my outbound Nov 30 flight, and all but 1 seat occupied on the inbound on Dec 11. I was pleasantly surprised.

Seems like when I check business/premium economy they usually are sold out or close to sold out.

Have done this route twice, one personal and other for business. Did business class and was very happy with it and it was full on all four flights. Worth the extra money/points for sure. Looking forward to another journey in a few months.

Codasco · Tue Apr 25, 2023 6:34 pm

TWA302 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Codasco wrote:

Granted this is anecdotal, but business was totally sold out on my outbound Nov 30 flight, and all but 1 seat occupied on the inbound on Dec 11. I was pleasantly surprised.

Seems like when I check business/premium economy they usually are sold out or close to sold out.

Have done this route twice, one personal and other for business. Did business class and was very happy with it and it was full on all four flights. Worth the extra money/points for sure. Looking forward to another journey in a few months.

The Christmas Goose they served was pretty darn good.

TWA302 · Tue Apr 25, 2023 7:00 pm

Codasco wrote:
TWA302 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

Seems like when I check business/premium economy they usually are sold out or close to sold out.

Have done this route twice, one personal and other for business. Did business class and was very happy with it and it was full on all four flights. Worth the extra money/points for sure. Looking forward to another journey in a few months.

The Christmas Goose they served was pretty darn good.

We took the train to MUC from FRA which was fun but apparently they serve THIS in biz and first on flights to MUC!

STLflyer · Tue Apr 25, 2023 7:12 pm

I'll be on 448 tomorrow, currently in my hotel room at the FRA Marriott after a couple weeks in Europe.

I'm really glad to see it seems to be doing well and hopefully will stick around long term. Being able to get home without having to go through ORD or some other hellhole is a godsend.

I just wish they'd put up some permanent signage at the T2 checkin counter, that banner makes it look like it's for a temporary, one-off charter or something. Doesn't exactly instill confidence in the longevity of the route.

Jshank83 · Tue Apr 25, 2023 7:21 pm

STLflyer wrote:
I'll be on 448 tomorrow, currently in my hotel room at the FRA Marriott after a couple weeks in Europe.

I'm really glad to see it seems to be doing well and hopefully will stick around long term. Being able to get home without having to go through ORD or some other hellhole is a godsend.

I just wish they'd put up some permanent signage at the T2 checkin counter, that banner makes it look like it's for a temporary, one-off charter or something. Doesn't exactly instill confidence in the longevity of the route.

Hey now. No need to make a big investment like a sign when the new terminal will be open for them in 7 or 8 years. :rotfl:

atrude777 · Tue Apr 25, 2023 8:23 pm

DOT has officially released their bid award for Contour for IRK, MWA and OWB.

All Contour's flights will begin August 1st with Chicago services from IRK and MWA, and Charlotte services from OWB.

In the Midwest, Contour will now be serving TBN, IRK, MWA, CGI, PAH, OWB, BNA and ORD

July 31st, 2023 will be the last day of Cape Air Operations for STL and BNA, ending over 10 years of service to STL.

Cape Air took over a failing Great Lakes in 2009, and played a huge part in getting these airports back to 10K enplanements, and I know these communities have so much to thank Cape Air for. It is because of Cape Air, these communities have grown and in some of those other cities moved on to other hubs, jet service and connection to large hubs.

For airports like IRK and MWA and OWB, this will be the end of STL service going back to the 1970's if not earlier thanks to the Ozark/TWA Hub...MWA itself has had service to STL consistently since 1950's.

I have many memories flying MWA-STL on Trans World Express, American Connection, Great Lakes, and Cape Air. Friends and Family can recall flying Air Illinois out of Carbondale, and Britt Airways, and Ozark to STL from MWA.

I personally have flown Cape Air 108 times in and out of STL to/from Marion, according to my records, I have flown MWA-STL 66 times...

My best to the Cape Air folks in STL, you have served the STL Community wonderfully for the last 10+ Years, it was always a highlight to see you guys as I connected through STL.

Alex

Jshank83 · Tue Apr 25, 2023 8:37 pm

March numbers for STL are out.

up 6.1% vs March 2022
up 16.4% YTD vs 2022

down 8.7% vs March 2019
down 10.5% YTD vs 2019

Last 12 months: 14,109,149

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... rt-Mar.pdf

TWA302 · Wed Apr 26, 2023 2:09 pm

atrude777 wrote:
DOT has officially released their bid award for Contour for IRK, MWA and OWB.

All Contour's flights will begin August 1st with Chicago services from IRK and MWA, and Charlotte services from OWB.

In the Midwest, Contour will now be serving TBN, IRK, MWA, CGI, PAH, OWB, BNA and ORD

July 31st, 2023 will be the last day of Cape Air Operations for STL and BNA, ending over 10 years of service to STL.

Cape Air took over a failing Great Lakes in 2009, and played a huge part in getting these airports back to 10K enplanements, and I know these communities have so much to thank Cape Air for. It is because of Cape Air, these communities have grown and in some of those other cities moved on to other hubs, jet service and connection to large hubs.

For airports like IRK and MWA and OWB, this will be the end of STL service going back to the 1970's if not earlier thanks to the Ozark/TWA Hub...MWA itself has had service to STL consistently since 1950's.

I have many memories flying MWA-STL on Trans World Express, American Connection, Great Lakes, and Cape Air. Friends and Family can recall flying Air Illinois out of Carbondale, and Britt Airways, and Ozark to STL from MWA.

I personally have flown Cape Air 108 times in and out of STL to/from Marion, according to my records, I have flown MWA-STL 66 times...

My best to the Cape Air folks in STL, you have served the STL Community wonderfully for the last 10+ Years, it was always a highlight to see you guys as I connected through STL.

Alex

That really sucks, but I get the why using ORD and CLT could be easier for these cities. Easy connections to basically anywhere you want versus a stop in STL/BNA. OWB was a great weekend getaway for a cheap price on Cape. Great little downtown with some amazing restaurants and bars.

maps4ltd · Wed Apr 26, 2023 2:24 pm

Damn. Worked at Cape for a year and a half here at STL. Never thought this would happe this quickly. The pilot shortage has really hit them hard.

I'm sure the Contour cities are happy about ORD and CLT though. I saw a lot of double connections on 9K interlines with American (stuff like SAT-DFW-STL-IRK and RDU-PHL-STL-MWA). The enhanced connectivity will be a boon overall.

Jshank83 · Wed Apr 26, 2023 2:34 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
Damn. Worked at Cape for a year and a half here at STL. Never thought this would happe this quickly. The pilot shortage has really hit them hard.

I'm sure the Contour cities are happy about ORD and CLT though. I saw a lot of double connections on 9K interlines with American (stuff like SAT-DFW-STL-IRK and RDU-PHL-STL-MWA). The enhanced connectivity will be a boon overall.

Cape, due to being short on pilots, not being able to bid on all the routes skywest dropped really hurt them. I think they could have picked up a handful.

atrude777 · Wed Apr 26, 2023 2:55 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
Damn. Worked at Cape for a year and a half here at STL. Never thought this would happe this quickly. The pilot shortage has really hit them hard.

I'm sure the Contour cities are happy about ORD and CLT though. I saw a lot of double connections on 9K interlines with American (stuff like SAT-DFW-STL-IRK and RDU-PHL-STL-MWA). The enhanced connectivity will be a boon overall.

Maps-Are you still there or did you leave prior? You and the many others at Cape Air in STL have been part of my journey flying in and out of MWA through STL to beyond (usually flying to ORD). I have become friends with some of you guys outside of the airport and have kept in continued touch.

The lack of double connecting will help quite a bit, however a lot of folks would fly MWA-STL and simply take Southwest even if that meant having to recheck their bags. I heard it was a lot of passengers flying up just to take Southwest. For those flying to Chicago like me, having a non stop will help save on the travel time which took 3-4 hours.

Jshank83 wrote:
Cape, due to being short on pilots, not being able to bid on all the routes skywest dropped really hurt them. I think they could have picked up a handful.

Agreed, shoot depending on the range they could have offered more Chicago to be competitive. They had the chance to go for TBN, CGI, PAH, along with the currents, MWA, IRK and OWB.

I wonder if this will change how Cape Air deals with the new Tecnam Planes...then again they still need to replace those C402's.

Alex

Jshank83 · Wed Apr 26, 2023 9:37 pm

LH updated their winter schedule. Looks like no change for us. Plane or frequency

Jshank83 · Thu Apr 27, 2023 3:17 pm

STL listed as a medium term wish list for BOI
https://boisedev.com/news/2023/04/26/bo ... tinations/

jplatts · Thu Apr 27, 2023 4:58 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
STL listed as a medium term wish list for BOI
https://boisedev.com/news/2023/04/26/bo ... tinations/

There are some markets with higher PDEW's out of STL in Q3 2022 than BOI-STL that don't currently have any nonstop service out of STL/BLV such as ALB, BUF, BDL, ORF/PHF, PWM, RNO, RIC, and GEG.

The lack of daily STL-PDX nonstop service is the biggest hole in the STL market as the PDEW of STL-PDX was 102 passengers/day in Q3 2022.

There is also more than enough demand for the return of daily nonstop service to PDX from STL on WN with the amount of O&D demand that is there between STL and PDX along with the amount of connecting traffic that WN would have on the STL end of the STL-PDX route.

There are also only a handful of markets east of the Mississippi River that have both daily WN nonstop service to STL and daily nonstop service to PDX on another airline, including ATL, BOS, CLT, CHI, DTW, NYC, MCO, and WAS.

atrude777 · Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:22 pm

jplatts wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
STL listed as a medium term wish list for BOI
https://boisedev.com/news/2023/04/26/bo ... tinations/

There are some markets with higher PDEW's out of STL in Q3 2022 than BOI-STL that don't currently have any nonstop service out of STL/BLV such as ALB, BUF, BDL, ORF/PHF, PWM, RNO, RIC, and GEG.

STL isn't on their Wishlist, it is for BOI.

Hence the point of Jshank's post.

Jshank83 wrote:
STL listed as a medium term wish list for BOI
https://boisedev.com/news/2023/04/26/bo ... tinations/

I know it says Southwest, but I would be willing to bet Alaska could fly an E175 STL-BOI to test the demand, and still offer BOI connections beyond, but it could hit their STL-SEA.

Southwest does seem the most reasonable.

Alex

pmanni1 · Thu Apr 27, 2023 7:24 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
STL listed as a medium term wish list for BOI
https://boisedev.com/news/2023/04/26/bo ... tinations/

This would be a longshot. Even TWA didn't do BOI-STL

stlgph · Thu Apr 27, 2023 7:43 pm

Interesting on Boise. I would think SWA would be a long shot as I would put (hear come the groans!) Chicago Midway going non-seasonal, Kansas City or our favorite, Nashville would come first.

Jshank83 · Thu Apr 27, 2023 9:00 pm

stlgph wrote:
Interesting on Boise. I would think SWA would be a long shot as I would put (hear come the groans!) Chicago Midway going non-seasonal, Kansas City or our favorite, Nashville would come first.

Nashville I agree with, especially since they are on the near term wish list. I'd think on WN STL would still come before MCI. Quite a bit bigger station so more connections, especially to the east, when neither has much O&D (30s each way a day). Plus, they actually want a flight to STL, no mention of them wanting MCI.

Jshank83 · Sun Apr 30, 2023 10:01 pm

May Frequencies

Flights per week
2023 (2022) 2019
WN 739 (657) 812
AA 186 (238) 259
DL 151 (142) 197
UA 145 (137) 200
F9 35 (33) 38
G4 19 (22) 27
AS 14 (14) 21 - third flight doesn't kick in until later in the month so not added to this.
NK 14 (24) XX
AC 14 (7) 21

Total STL 1395 (1361) 1713

Seats on Monday
2023 seats (vs 2022) vs 2020
AA 3651 (-12.55%) -13.46%
DL 2918 (+16.16%) -9.35%
UA 1476 (+6.26%) -14.98%

Notes:
AS - SEA to 3x a day. One is a redeye for a few weeks
SY - MSP goes to regularly scheduled flights
AC - Up to 2x a day.
DL - all flights mainline except LGA
AA - AUS goes away until October
G4 - FLL/LAS go away until ?

Full spreadsheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

stlgph · Mon May 01, 2023 12:09 pm

LAS goes away on Allegiant from BLV?
That's interesting. Is this the first time that's happened since BLV resumed years ago?

Jshank83 · Mon May 01, 2023 12:40 pm

stlgph wrote:
LAS goes away on Allegiant from BLV?
That's interesting. Is this the first time that's happened since BLV resumed years ago?

It was seasonal a few years ago also. Took breaks in fall for a couple years. But not this early. Allegiant has been cutting back long routes in favor of short ones so this might be part of that. Go on break until workforce, other factors, improve. I’d guess up becoming a base would help also.

stlgph · Mon May 01, 2023 1:17 pm

It seems as though Allegiant has been less reliant and 'hot and heavy' on LAS in the past couple of years. Not just at BLV but a few other stations.

A few things
1 - They've clearly the spread the love and are offering more destinations for more people - so the appeal/need for Vegas dwindles as interest and vacation plans are made to other destinations.

2 - A part of it, I believe, is with all the new casino and resort builds in Vegas - the base cost of a Vegas vacation has substantially increased.

Jshank83 · Tue May 02, 2023 7:39 pm

The new Southwest Imua One paint job makes its first appearance at STL tomorrow evening. Flying FLL-STL-HOU. Scheduled to be on ground from 835-935 pm. Will be its 4th revenue flight in the new paint.

TWA302 · Tue May 02, 2023 8:08 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
The new Southwest Imua One paint job makes its first appearance at STL tomorrow evening. Flying FLL-STL-HOU. Scheduled to be on ground from 835-935 pm. Will be its 4th revenue flight in the new paint.

Amazing looking livery

TWA302 · Wed May 03, 2023 2:54 pm

Looks like the street fair banner is now gone and finally replaced by something that doesn't scream, "We're just here for a little while."

Jshank83 · Wed May 03, 2023 3:08 pm

TWA302 wrote:
Looks like the street fair banner is now gone and finally replaced by something that doesn't scream, "We're just here for a little while."

Good size also. I would love to see some other updates in T2. New digital screens, etc to make it feel a little newer or up to date. But this is a start.

Do you care if I steal this pic to post on twitter? I can credit you.

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